 All right, thanks for staying with us Silent firing that's what we're talking about today and Let me just pull out something. Have you ever been in a situation where? You're in an office space and all of a sudden you feel choked engine. Yes, okay. All right, so quiet firing is when Someone Decides to for stricter life When a manager or an employer makes an employee's job so unpleasant that it quits on their own in the job sage Survey which Gathered data across various industries 56% of managers said they have Employees they wish they could fire nearly a third of managers surveyed admitted that they've Quietly of Apple actually quietly fired an employee Using tactics like reduced workload No promotions no raises plus a quarter of managers surveyed said they are more suspicious of their employees Because of the quiet quitting trend Quiet firing can have severe consequences for employees in developing countries Many of them are unable to find new employment Leading to financial hardship and emotional distress. So today we're asking what does quiet firing mean for an employee Remember you can join the conversation send us an SMS or what's up to three one eight zero three four six six three So I'm going to bring in a vumi lay in like a minute. I just want to hear your thoughts So we said that you felt choked Right when I asked you that I've ever felt been in a place where you felt choked So what did you do about it? Um For the longest time, it's not like there's so much you can do about it because like he said the person in question Is always someone who is above you? Yeah, and for whatever reason they have decided that they no longer require your services So, um, I feel like quiet firing is not Always when they want to Well, the end result is always to get you out of the office But I feel like sometimes some buses don't even know that they that that is what they're doing they just frustrate you and Either lock you out and by locking you out you already feel like you're out of the office Understand because there's a level to it. They're frustrating you within the work environment and it has to do with work That's different But when someone makes a purpose for Efforts to make you feel left out Not part of a team not part of the organization But still you are employed within the organization. It gets quite frustrating to the extent that you start to Feel and think to yourself that if I'm not needed here, why don't they just tell me to go? But nobody ever tells anyone you have to wait for them to tell you to go No, but that's the thing you want to have a job. You don't want to leave your workplace It doesn't seem like you're quitted. So let me talk to Vumi. Vumi is the chief executive officer of Hased Consulting which is a coaching and consulting firm specializing in commerce Acceleration career coaching women empowerment Facilitation and training on the African continent with presence in Nigeria South Africa Botswana Kenya United States of America Rwanda and affiliate in Namibia Ghana and Uganda She has coached in multi-nationals such as Google app sir in best invest tech private bank silica FNB Vodacom and Anglo-American she's a friend of the house, and we're so happy super happy to have this conversation with Vumi. Hi, Vumi We're good. We're hoping you're gonna come to us very soon Hi, Vumi. Can you hear us? I can hear you. Can you hear me? I can hear you loudly. I said, when are you coming to Lagos? When I'm not dealing with two small kids Yeah, I can imagine so for me this topic is quite interesting, right? I really love the topic I'll say to you that in fairness, right? I am an employer and Sometimes I feel like even if an employee is frustrating my life I just rather not, you know, because again, it's not all employers that have the capacity to be able to just fire Right, so they'll just kind of like wait it out So I would just keep on reducing. I might reduce your workload give it to somebody else that can deliver effectively Reduce the number of interactions and all of that. So I don't get myself worked up Some employers would just come out outright and say you're fired But some employers are not able to fire people and I feel like those are the employers that are in this bracket of What's it called silent firing? So help me out here. Is this a correct analysis or anyone can be can become a silent fire I guess of quite firing it comes from a place where you don't want to deal with the labor relations of actually putting someone in a performance Improvement plan and going through the process of legally firing them So the hoax is if you frustrate them enough you diminish their workload They will then see a toxic environment and of their own accord choose to then leave Which means you're not liable for a separation Package, you're not liable for having a conversation with the labor courts. They just simply disappear after being frustrated It's very very rare that organizations, especially in large multinational can just simply fire someone without some repercussions from a labor perspective I see That's interesting. So everyone is trying to avoid because again, there are clothes when you're being employed There are clothes where they put out What's the word now? They put some clothes to say, okay? If I'm the one firing you X Y Z would happen out have to pay you some severance package So I get I get why it's happening both but me does fire a quiet firing Does it happen in multi-nationals because I feel like this quiet firing will be a lot more within one man organization Kind of structure doesn't happen amongst what's called multi-nationals as well It does it happens across the board So it is it seems more frequent with usually but as a one-man show or small organizations It's the case of it's awkward We don't necessarily have the processes in place to get rid of you So it's easier to them use quiet firing with multi-nationals We realize with enough pockets that if we went to labor court, you most likely would leave So if I couldn't quite firing now if we go back several years back We'll be known as constructive dismissal where in essence we put things in place to make it easy for you to go Where we are manipulating our powers and employer our powers and manager to help get out of the business So we dismissing you through constructively creating an environment that doesn't serve you where you can quickly see I'm never gonna get a promotion and as soon as I get another job, I'll be out Okay, so frustrated that I'll be out. So for one-man show it might be a case of I just don't have the processes in place From a large organization. I don't want to tap into No, whoa We're having no signs you find that You are you are going to experience quiet firing it's not mutually exclusive and it's not Necessarily just for those multi-nationals or just for smaller operating companies Okay, let me cut let MJ come in My question would be what do you do when you realize you're in that kind of situation you find yourself in that kind of Situation where you have a boss who is trying to frustrate you into Quitting yourself You know, how do you how do you handle the situation because sometimes I feel like it can get quite frustrating and you're not sure exactly what to do and I I know that when I did have that experience it was It was the tone in my flesh and sometimes you go home and you're just wondering and sometimes You have crying days where you just wonder how bad things can actually get and at what point you feel like you've had enough So how do you how do you leave through that situation and still be able to deliver on your because some for some people? They just feel at that point, you know You know, I'm just gonna do what I want to do since this guy wants to frustrate me You know, it could go one way or the other some people quit some people just end up You know taking the company trying to take the company down with them. So how do you how do you deal? What's the best way to deal with such a situation? The first is to be as unemotional as possible and what I mean by that is you need to be able to gather evidence If you are experienced by firing or constructive dismissal Then isn't most of the time if you read your current contract is a breach of your employment contract Okay, because that means that your employer has violated the implied duty of trust and confidence and it's not acting on a Friday So you want to make sure you don't necessarily quit immediately because then you lose all legal protection However, the burden of proof lays with you So you need to prove that constructive dismissal or quiet firing is actually in in essence occurring So I want you to keep a little file In case of emergency where you are saving all the emails where you are emailing to say good day So I've noticed I was invited to this meeting however that's all in my scope is that is my job speak has it changed So you constantly are referring to the prior agreements that you are now being iced out of and you keep that Correspondence until you are able to have enough of a body of proof that you can say I feel like this might be Constructive dismissal and I'm experiencing quite firing and then that happens what tends to happen Organizations tend to get a little bit scared because of this gets into the media if this gets into the space of label courts You then have enough body of evidence to prove that this was intentional and no one wants that So what I found with most of my clients with coaching is When this conversation happened then they open themselves up to potential compensation claims Or then the discussion for mutual separation starts occurring when they don't they just leave and when you just leave and has a direct Impact in your future employment. How are you going to be able to get a good reference? When organization is trying to find you and you quit and you look like you're someone with job hops as opposed to someone with essence was intentionally Missed through constructive dismissal quiet firing So what happens when you're able to negotiate that mutual separation agreement or something that's a little bit more amicable is a version of that contract you have a non-discussion agreement So they cannot say anything negative when asking for references So the moment you quit you quit on yourself and opportunities for potentially future employment So I mean bovumi what you've just said now either way, right? It's still a problem Because if I'm expressing quiet firing and I'm able to then take it up With what's it called the labor law courts, right? What I like it or not I will be blacklisted So I tend to understand that it is difficult for people that are experiencing quite because a lot of people actually Experience quiet firing here in Nigeria a lot of people do that But you see they do not fight it because again They're afraid of what would happen if I then take up this matter, you know My my company would blacklist me and of course it maybe it would be difficult to get a job Because again, I say I don't pass it. She's just trouble don't ever employ her the blacklist. I've seen I mean this one This particular case. I've seen someone that complained to us that she was blacklisted Right. She was blacklisted first of all She was there was a quiet firing that happened that forced her to resign, right? Then she resigns then she was blacklisted now nobody wants to work with her Right because that person I said this person can never work with me. She's this she's that and all of that So regardless, there's still that fight that is happening. So how do we? How do we win the situation because it's not going to be easy if I fight you if I fight the organization? I use if I don't fight the organization. I still lose, right? Is I didn't say take it to the neighborhood. I said build a case Then when you go to your organization, you say in light of our contract is this constructive dismissal And what I found is most organizations to avoid even having to go to the labor court Choose to settle out of court with you and you absolutely rise the moment you go to the labor courts or Here we put a CCMA. There is a chance that you You know industries are small everyone talks whether it's the energy industry or it's the financial services industry people will talk and say Mmm, that person took their things that they organized the organization to court and they won't necessarily give context with regards to that and Confidentiality isn't always respected in those spaces But what we found is when you have a body of evidence and you now go to your manager and you have a conversation Or you go to HR and you say this and that I have to unpack this little bit I've had a conversation with my manager. This is what's happening. Here's the book The proof the burden of proof what is happening then is that organizations seem to say, okay, let's settle So you still able to retain your reputation Probably get what we've seen as an average of three to six months and then you walk out However, it's not I get it. It's not always an easy thing to go tell your manager I can see you working me out of the system I completely understand that but when you are aware and you're gonna get fired anyway, and you're gonna quit anyway You might as well try and negotiate exit package on your way out. You're going to quit anyway The relationship has been tarnished to an extent that it's it's it's it's not able to reconcile So if you've got those irreconcilable differences, think of it as a divorce You might as get something out before you walk out of nothing at all With me you're you're speaking because I mean maybe where you are they are kind of There's a bit of structure. There's a there's a method to the madness where you are here There's no matter to any madness because literally and I'm speaking to you even I'm not talking small businesses Big organizations that maybe I can tell you their names We've heard so many so many very funny stories about how the employers treat their employees, right? And yet nothing gets done. So we first of all in Nigeria were fighting were battling a lot of things Labor laws are completely comatose like literally nobody fights for you, right? Then you're going to organizations, right? Some are perceived to be structured, but they really do not have a structure, right? The ones that even have a structure. They have no basis to To what's it called to uphold their own part of the agreement. So there are so many things that are scattered there So in this kind of chaotic situation here in Nigeria What would be the best counter for somebody that is going through quiet firing in a space where you do not have the luxury of of labor For me it then becomes a case of how do I salvage my reputation? Because in that space a space specifically in any industry and we all know Africa across the board is a connection economy I would then salvage my reputation And what I will try to do is if I'm aware of the fact that my direct manager is trying to work me out Who else in the organization can be a key influence or key decision-maker that I can add value to My workload here is not shifting my direct manager no longer wants me to support Who else can I potentially add value to that even on my way out when this man or this woman says she's useless Someone else can come to it. She's not too bad. She was able to help with ABCD So for me that becomes important. The second piece that becomes important is even on my way out Having a conversation around What can I do to improve? Yes, you know, you are giving your hundred and ten percent this person is clearly unsatisfied with that and then asking specifically What actions can I do to counter what is what we are currently experiencing from a performance perspective? If you're able to garner that information from your actual manager is trying to get you out You can quickly survey whether it's something that's even capable or something that's not capable And then even having the conversation that we've all done up to say if I'm not serving you in this particular arena Is there another space in the business that potentially I can add more value Where perhaps my skill set or how you're experiencing me does not suffice Because if someone sometimes is a personality clash Sometimes someone finds you intimidating. Sometimes someone just simply doesn't like you So if you're able to have that conversation and pivot the relationship where you're not having to deal with them You know what one still retain your position within the organization and still add value also it so that even when you leave Your biggest asset commodity is your reputation. You can keep that intact as much as possible If this person isn't the tractor what you're trying to do is neutralize them So they say nothing good and they say nothing bad that way even if you get another opportunity They're not going to speak against you. So for me in that position that becomes my primary objective Awesome. Awesome. Fantastic. I like I like how you broke it down So let's go on a very short break right when we come back from that break will continue this fantastic conversation. Stay with us If you just tune in we're having an interesting conversation as you can tell we're discussing quite far And this is a very juicy topic. Honestly, I think Vumi would have to do a lot of parts on this conversation And what it means for employee employees Of course, we have with us Vumi. She's joined us from South Africa now, please Let's hear what you have to say remember you can join this conversation send us an SMS or what's up to the rate one eight zero three eight Four six six three. All right, so for me, I mean, this is a very interesting conversation Like I said, right and I love the fact that you have said something but I want to I want to take you back to what you said because so I did a course on on product management and Just for the for the sake of knowledge. I wanted to also like I Offered my services to be able to intern With a company sadly when I was interning my direct supervisor was kind of like, you know, you know She went left and I knew you know, so I just you know So I had I had actually approached the company, but maybe because they didn't take me seriously I told them I said, okay, you know what if product management is not working, you know I'm also fantastic in the media space Can I move to the corporate comms department so I can I can be of value there instead of this place? And all of that they glossed over it and they didn't take it seriously at that point, you know what I just say You know what I resigned and don't do it again But but I'm trying to explain to you that so what if you explore that option and you're not giving that option What then do you do? So often when you're exploring that option, you're speaking to your direct manager who really is Set again. It was dead set against you So what becomes critical there is how do you go about lobbying for business and lobby for those opportunities? So when I talk about is then who are the key influences or the key decision-makers? How do you come in a relationship with them that even when you're going to the manager who's most likely going to say to you No, I'm not going to be supporting you with regards to this But they realize that their powers greater and more influential than them will back you So your ability to lobby one becomes important your ability to articulate how you can add value becomes important And then as I always say to my clients, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission What do I mean if you go out and you start saying listen, I'm starting to give add value to the media team Not necessarily with your bosses consent at the time, but they're seeing the value They say often volunteering with another department adding a little value You know, I think it is add value to the organization as a whole now your bus is gonna have to say Oh, now I'm gonna speak to another manager who's my peer to say why you can't add value when I'm not utilizing So it becomes a strategic game where you are one lobby in a senior level to get that back up at the peer level of your boss To add that you so then they have to counter Why you have to go and then of course you cultivate in relationships across the board with people who are your peers as well See, what are you looking at? Can I help? So it becomes a case of everybody, you know that show everybody loves Raymond Everybody loves who may accept you. You must be the problem That's fantastic. I know it's no it's a fantastic approach, I still feel it It doesn't hit home For me in terms of what we have in terms of reality of what is really going on, you know Why you had mentioned that, you know, there's a lot of Unstructured organizations even big organizations. So a lot of all this, you know steps that you can take what now happens When is your The owner, you know, if you mention you're dealing with you're having an issue with a manager Okay, so key decision makers. So you're having an issue with the manager and you want to go and meet the next person Another key decision maker, maybe your CEO or your boss What do you do when it's your boss? The owner of the company is doing the I call it constructive dismissal Yeah, if it's the founder, if you're reporting directly to the CEO, if you just Report directly to the owner. Yeah, they prescribe the culture and they prescribe who they who they hire There's a good quote I heard that says the only person that gets to determine who they work with are founders owners and CEOs It's the power they have so if it's that that's the dynamic way is the direct CEO's the direct chair person If the reality that's gonna be near impossible because they prescribe the culture they prescribe Who it is that walks through the door and they don't want you the dog You know that they culture they can in essence frustration out and the ramifications are a lot harder because if the chairperson doesn't like you Who do you go to? Hmm? So I was gonna say so I'm telling you so I was gonna say to you that so when you are in that situation How do you manage? because this is that You are at the final table of the was equal the highest decision maker Right does the that is where the the challenge is coming from right the choir firing and all of that the constructed firing You know, so when you are with direct Directly working with the owner of the company So how do you manage the relationship in such a way that even after you leave you're able to probably get referrals You're able to get a lot of things from that company, you know knowing that this person doesn't want you You know, so what do you do? What would be the steps towards you eventually exiting that company because you really can't do anything about it anymore? In that particular case for me when you're trying to really save and salvage your reputation It becomes a case of having conversation around what should I be doing currently to make it easier? So for me having an honest conversation, I've been in a position where I was reporting to director and it was a simple thing She had inherited me from another director and it was just a difficult relationship So I said it down and I said listen, I think my personality perspective. There's a misalignment here, but how ever What can I do to make your life easier? Because currently you're taking stuff off my table Perhaps the way I'm doing it is not to your liking my style might not my approach might not be how you would prefer it done So in this tenure when we are still together, what can I do differently to make it easier? Hmm, and that question was like, oh Okay, actually I want to take over a PCB and I don't like how you do EFG And I was like, okay, then the question they became in line to knowing the industry so well Where do you think I would be a bit of a cultural fit? Hmm Then it became a case of actually to be honest with you I think you would do much better in the DRC or etc I think that would work better for you and that conversation helped to alleviate her Frustration with me because I I acknowledge that it wasn't working and then what it also did is if we both started working together to Exit me out of her of her geographical location So when we first heard of the CEO, we were both very happy to say that we deserve to be chief of operation there as opposed to being part of my team here because the work she was doing was great for my predecessor but Personality wise we do it So I have one more example So this is a case of founder But then brings in someone that is supposedly with experience and expertise Right and the person then goes into the company and the person is structuring the company helping because that person also took on the Vision of the founder to say you know what I really because I see this this playoff a lot with Startups, it's really Yeah, it's really fintech. I hear is a lot toxic. I see there was a point where It trended on X, you know, the people were just calling out a lot of CEOs startups and all of that So I say I really love this conversation because I believe it can help a lot of people. I've learned a lot I've learned diplomacy. I've learned how to you know, approach my my employer from a perspective of how do I help you? So now this particular case is this person is the expert the employer just Probably just got the funding and it was able to set up the company But the expertise for it the employer doesn't really have the expertise And that's why they brought in this person to come and be the person that would like kind of like structure They got organization based on the experience from other corporate organizations But it became it got to a point where the founder now became a bit more resentful because it seemed every member of staff would always go to this other person, you know For advice or council. Okay, what do we do? What do we do? So she felt a bit small, you know In the place where this other person was so how do you address both the person the employee and The founder in this instance where the founder feels threatened that you are the expert But you know, it's like you're making me feel irrelevant in my own organization I think that's found to happen specifically in startups, right? Yes When you're the founder they say your your company is like your first born and all of a sudden someone comes through and knows more than you The favorite teacher or the amazing nanny in essence does That phenomenon starts to happen What what is required for a great leader is to know when to transition as a founder You can only take your organization Very few founders have the ability to continue to operate and a lot of us say this for granted It's the reason Steve Jobs cut fire it from Apple is the reason even Jeff obeys us They had to have a vote about whether he should continue as CEO even though he'd been one of the founders So this is a very very normal thing. They're feeling of intimidation They've been in security as someone else starts to take your vision and run it and then is it helping scale it Because the skills they've required From starting this is the risk was it required from structuring the scaling is fundamentally different So that insecurity is there for me It's a case of how to put on a big girl big girl Pants are big boy who pens to be able to to maneuver when that does happen The question that becomes what is my value? What do I bring to the table? So it is a case with me I found a lot of founders and actually had a conversation with one last week where he was saying I don't know what my title is anymore Because it seems like what you ever used to come to me now. No one comes to me yet I'm still the empty and it's what I wanted when I created the business, but it hurts now that it's actually happening I think very few people have that emotional maturity to be able to articulate that But also if you are the person coming in to help scale often you're the consultant and if you are hired full-time You then have to realize that you're dealing with not just the Fragility of the ego was someone the fragility of someone's dream So your sensitivity to how do you navigate that becomes very very important I think that speaks to what we often forget when we go to work We think it's all about the IQ be the smartest person in the room Don't realize if you're dealing with human beings and that EQ becomes so so important to help support that To take our organizations to the next level. How do you go about navigating both? For me taps into what do we know to be the biggest desire of the founder? Steve Jobs if people able to articulate and I think that's the reason he came back Was the articulation of the fact that we want to make your dream bigger We want to support you in it and that made it great the culture where both could meet each other It could be happy marriage often when we're not articulating that I'm actually here to support you But we start looking like one of you the star striker Then the dynamics and the politics get into a place that becomes very toxic and red-helping all round This is really deep Very deep. This is some some business. I mean we should be paying you for these business classes It's quite a lot of information to me sharing here, but I wanted to take it So I know we've been talking about like from the employee point of view, but most of the time eventually we end up finding ourselves as CEOs and those managers that sometimes actually orchestrates the action so from the Boss or from the manager point of view what a because sometimes I feel like sometimes they don't they don't know all the time Do you I mean do you think that they know all the time when they actually do this? Can this be done subconsciously? Yes Definitely A place of pure frustration and often we see that happening when we've got young talents in the organization Where the the energy required to train up skill is so exhausting That you find yourself just let me let me rather do it or pass it to someone's experience So the person who joined your organization to add that you to grow to learn as an intern as a graduate as Perhaps someone who's new in the industry you end up not giving them that opportunity because you simply don't have the capacity So it does occur way from us from a from a strategic perspective It seems easier to keep the status quo as opposed to Rope in somebody new into the team and it does happen at times subconsciously So what what what do you do? How do you? Well, how do you bring it to your consciousness? How do you bring it to your consciousness so that you're aware of what you're doing and I probably just avoid that kind of behavior So I think it becomes important in reviewing your team's work So if you see someone's work that I had allocated this to person I gave this to for me But now I took it back and I gave it to fun care and I was now saying why why are you looking back on nothing? Oh, no, but you gave it to oh, no, but you gave it to then I think you then as a leader Have to take account of Lindsay and say why am I doing that? And then have a skip skills gap analysis to say I think you might not have not have the capacity So can you actually buddy up with the person who's an expert in this field and put together clear? knowledge transfer plan to Allow you to be able to not be frustrated and allow yourself to just worry about productivity and capacity With without realizing the human capital element element, which is an isn't firing quietly that person I was just gonna say that Vumi just hearing you speak right? I'm trying to process it to a bigger picture around governance, right? Especially around the African continent where you see leaders unable to have fantastic successors Amongst their their vise, you know Because again, I don't know what the problem is because I feel like it's a big problem amongst lead Amongst leaders in the entire leadership structure. You see a governor for instance is unable to delegate or give things to his vice Or deputy governor or the president is unable to give things to his vice president, you know to delegate It's it's it's this an African problem, you know, and I see there's an African problem Let me let me rephrase that and how do we begin to? Consciously because a lot of people in those deputy positions vice positions They've actually been fired a long time ago because literally they are just like figureheads You know not doing anything, but they're just there with a title We're very relegated to doing nothing and I see this happen amongst our governance structure So how do we solve that problem? How do we get them to become conscious of this and deliberately now start to probably Get better work relationship with your team members That's a great observation and in essence that culture of having a key man dependency Which results in sometimes a lack of succession planning the only way to counter it is systems So what we've seen like even if you look in from a political perspective on the continent often need but you know Brilliant leaders. I'm sure you can see some of them in behind Who on the continent came up with great philosophies great ideas? But some of their policies and their passion and they've been to get things done died with them because we simply do Structures in place and I think the difference between even from a leadership perspective Well, we've seen in in other countries and other continents versus as is the ability to put structures in place Which makes it impossible when all is transferred to not occur Which makes it impossible for the succession of the organization as opposed to the individual to to not occur and we've seen this right we see this we see this with You in in Singapore where he bought an incredible country The next thing he bought was systems to ensure that even whether he's whether his prime minister not that that succession continues And we've seen this great organizations We've seen it with Apple everyone thought Apple with our team jobs Entered him cock in structures or put in place that made it impossible for him to fail But also he was a great eater so he could be thrive. So the question then becomes Whether it is in business or whether it is in politics are we interested in being the stars of the show? Or are we interested in creating structures that will live and echo into eternity long past me as being there? And I think that's the question often when we are posting positions of power We have what we call being power drunk When feels so good to be needed that we don't realize that the true test of leadership is the ability to leave other Leaders and I think that's a very great question as to how we put that in place But I'll be quietly firing the people that shouldn't it should be our torchbearers long after we got and what sort of Organizations are we building or we just interested in being the stars of the show having all the power having all the knowledge? And this is your knowledge having all the decision-making without realizing that if something would happen to us even our family stars Organizations will completely flounder without us Oh my god We are having so much fun and we're running out of time But if you have something final to say to anyone, so let's speak to let's speak to two people now Let's speak to the employee that has observed that he's been or she's been She's been relegated to a side. What would you advise her immediate actions would be and to the employer all the managers, right? So there's the top top top and there's also the direct managers. What would you say to them? To the employee having honest conversation are you being fired by do you have a body of proof of evidence of this? Can you influence other people's to lobby the organization to have your back when you can actually be deployed into another space and Remember that having the direct conversation with your employer does not mean that they're gonna say yes, of course Go somewhere else. They might just want you out. What is your personal strategy to get out all to be deployed elsewhere? You need to drive this your song sitting in the corner and be frustrated serves no one What's your game plan? The second is if you are an employer and you are in this place when you realize that you're quietly firing This is a test of your leadership Not everyone you meet will be your favorite person and if this person is it's a culture clash Can you have the presence of mind to say if one adds value where can I deploy them to with they're not the right culture culture But do I know someone with perhaps they could be the right culture of it? I'm here to meet someone who adds zero value a hundred percent of the time So I think it's important for us to know sometimes It's not gonna work. It might not be your cup of tea You might be someone, you know, it's like this is not for me, but this not being for me It does not necessarily mean we have to blacklist people. We have to bad mark people Everything that comes out of our mouth is a reflection on us and always remember Whoever you're standing on on your way up, you might just meet on your way down Absolutely That's a fantastic way to wrap it up. We missed you by the way, so we're happy that we're back We're gonna be back. I'm telling you so we're gonna do this more. Thank you so much for me for your time I mean interesting. I'm telling you My body knows it's sweet to me I love this topic. You really understand who I am. It cuts across a lot of things. Thank you so much for me Now, thank you. NJ, before we go, I hope you have fun like us. Sorry, we couldn't take your messages today with our technical issues Remember you can join Interact with us further, drop your comments Most importantly, follow all our engagements to social media, like, share and invite your families and friends Please don't watch it alone. Don't be selfish. Share. Share the links, right? So if you missed our quote for today, here it is again It says quiet quitting is unfair to co-workers who may feel pressured to pick up your slack And if your behavior truly is in response to your employer Trying to push you out the door. It seems like actively disengaging would only perpetuate a no-win situation I mean Vumi has given so many fantastic Nuggets if you are if you listened in, you know If you know anybody going through the share this link to this person There are fantastic strategies that she has put in in this Short times that you can actually deploy and get, you know yourself at a better level Thank you so much. We'll see you guys on Monday at 8 p.m Let's bring another great conversation to your screen