 I'd like to welcome everybody to this joint webinar series on digital cooperation during the COVID-19 crisis and beyond and I particularly like to welcome our principal speaker and we're very lucky that we can start this series with him, Vintsef, who of course is an iconic figure in the digital world and I think few have as much accumulated wisdom and insight so I think it's very fitting that we should start off with him. I'm also honored to co-chair this with my friend and colleague, Assistant Secretary General Doran Bogdan from ITU and this is another example of a growing number of examples of ITU, UN Secretariat cooperation. We're also and this shows the broader UN family involvement, lucky to have Chris Fabian of UNICEF as one of our facilitators and also Alex Wong of ITU. So let me say two words about the substance before handing over to Doreen. I think the pandemic which came in a surprising way has vindicated in a manner that none of us would have anticipated. The validity and the life-saving utility of digital technologies. In this era, in ways that has never been possible before in times of crisis, we've been able to keep working, keep studying, keep connected to family and friends, keep in good health, keep entertained and keep having meetings like this one Thanks to the emergence and dominance of digital technology. Digital technology has also played a major role in enhancing the response, in bringing us real-time public health information in ways that were not previously possible, in crowdsourcing solutions and approaches, in tracking people movements and allowing authorities to fine-tune and enhance their response to this public health crisis. But these massive benefits that digital technology has brought us also have a shadow side and I think it's that shadow side that these webinars are aimed at trying to find formulas to better address and I want to highlight three. First of all, of course these massive benefits that work we have depend on being connected and as we know many people for many different reasons in many parts of the world are not connected and I think the enhanced digitalization of our lives for those who are connected is going to leave behind greater and deeper inequalities with regard to those who are not connected. So I think that's one major issue and that in fact is the subject of today's debate. What measures can we take quickly to address better the connectivity issue? The second issue relates to content and of course there have been different approaches in different countries of the world with a sort of very less-affair approach in some countries and a very intrusive approach in others. The approaches to content moderation have reflected national differences in terms of media control but I think those issues have come to the fore. We've seen as I've said how positive content on spread through digital means in terms of preventive measures in terms of public health information have been tremendously helpful and have saved lives but we've also seen how disinformation has endangered people. Disinformation spread by social media. We've also seen how hate speech and stigmatization has spread on on social media and I think we've also seen how platforms and governments who in the past have been really very reticent in some countries who exercise any form of moderation in face of this public health crisis have actually stepped up efforts to try and boost positive content and contain dangerous content. A third aspect that I want to highlight among the shadow side is of course the security issue and there are two aspects to this I want to highlight. One is the security of infrastructure and we've seen attacks on WHO websites. We've heard of attacks on on on hospitals. We've heard of disruptions to social media platforms and platforms for group tracts like this but the other aspect of security is data protection and we've seen an unprecedented use by public authorities of use of private and telephone data in order to for legitimate public health purposes but it's given rise to a series of questions of what is the legitimate use of such data, how can data be anonymized, to what extent can you track data for punitive purposes and to what extent can we will these extraordinary measures that have been adopted now in ways that I think most people would regard on the whole as legitimate but how do you make sure they're stood down after the crisis is over. So I think those are some of the three areas I wanted to highlight and that we will consider in this webinar series. Of course many of these issues and connectivity is the obvious one and not things that have a quick solution and many of these issues we will be addressing in the Secretary General's roadmap in follow-up to the high-level panel where we were very lucky to have Vint participate and we will be considering those issues in the longer-term ways of addressing them in the Secretary General's roadmap in follow-up to the panel that will come out in early May. I think where these webinars will have an added value is to see and consider what can be done in the short-term and there are things even for connectivity that can be done in the short-term. I mean in New York there is obviously very little problem one would be wrong to suggest and I can tell you this is a resident here to say that there's no problem with connectivity because even in parts of Brooklyn it's very hard to get a 4G signal. But I heard the other day that in New York there are 300,000 people who don't have devices that allow them to connect to the internet. So you know there are issues even in very developed places where there are immediate problems with connectivity that can in fact be resolved in a relatively straightforward way. So I hope these webinars will help us find ways to address some of the short-term measures to address the difficulties that have been highlighted through this pandemic. So with that I'd like to hand over to Doreen. I must say we have some wonderful high-level speakers from all regions of the world that will come in later after Vint. But I'd like to thank you all for joining and I hope very much by banging our heads together virtually I mean digitally we can come up with some ideas about solutions to address some of the gaps and others I'm sure that exist that will I've mentioned that others will mention. So thank you all and especially to ITU for making this possible. Thank you so much Fabrizio digital headbanging I'd like that. So good afternoon good evening and good morning everyone and welcome to the first of four webinars on digital cooperation during COVID and beyond. One of the things the unprecedented events of the past few weeks has dramatically illustrated is the vital essential importance as Fabrizio demonstrated the importance of connectivity. Digital has really become the hidden hero as some have called it and of course we are the privileged we are the connected. We are using technology to help ensure that our lives continue as normally as they possibly can and that our work can continue even if we're not physically present. Technology is helping our kids to continue their studies and most vitally of all it's helping the world's health workers deal with the global challenge unlike anything that we've ever seen in our lifetimes and of course helping medical research researchers collaborate across borders around the clock in an urgent search for a vaccine. Today is the first session of this four series of webinars and we're going to be focusing on the need for connectivity a situational assessment. Connectivity as I said has never been so important so crucial our figures show us that 3.6 billion people remain totally cut off from the Internet and I suspect that that shocking figure might actually prove to be a conservative one. Right now even in my home country of the United States the birthplace of the Nets and one of the most connected countries on the planet the FCC is embarking on a remapping exercise to extend broadband to over 20 million US households that remain unconnected and I think what's what's more is last year's state of broadband report from the UN Broadband Commission for Sustainable Development highlighted that so many people that we consider connected actually lack the speed the devices and the affordability of service that would make this connectivity meaningful in their lives and of course added to this is the additional COVID-19 related strain on ICT networks that's really causing traffic levels to surge and also changing usage patterns and that really is putting to the test the very connectivity that we would have normally considered to be sufficient and of course for all of us participating in this meeting we we really would have difficulty imagining what our lives would be like without the Internet and what we need to remember is that right now every second person on the planet has to live without this vital lifeline they live without the Internet. We in the international community we share a conviction that all people must enjoy access to the same equal opportunities and of course in the 21st century leaving no one behind means that everyone should have meaningful access to digital technologies. Fabrizio mentioned the UN Secretary General's high-level panel on digital cooperation and I think we need to stress that word cooperation because cooperation is key. ITU together with our sister agencies has been co- championing some of the recommendations of the high-level panel the one on global connectivity and also the recommendation on digital help desks and we've been engaging in multi-stakeholder discussions all focused on bridging the digital divide and I think our webinar today is just one example of what we can do together. So COVID-19 is a wake-up call as we know a wake-up call for all of us and it's a wake-up call about the vital importance of getting and keeping the world connected and I'm using the power of technology to improve our preparedness, our mitigation strategies and our collective community response. It's really a wake-up call on why we need to dramatically accelerate efforts to bring the unconnected people and communities online and as soon as we put this crisis behind us which I hope is sooner rather than later we really need to get government and industry to urgently cooperate and partner on a global big dig to get those without access connected as fast as possible. The next time around because there may be a next time around we cannot and we must not be caught unaware and as the U.S. President John F. Kennedy famously said the time to mend the roof is when the sun is shining and with that Fabrizio I think I'm handing to Alex. Thank you. Thank you Fabrizio and thank you Doreen, Alex Wong working at the ITU, Senior Advisor. It's great to see so many friends and colleagues on the call here and my job here together with my counterpart Chris Davion from UNICEF is to make sure we get through the agenda and we finish on time as the first thing. I just wanted to recognize also some of our colleagues that are on the chat already noticed Vice Minister Yamada for example our colleagues from the EU, Mexico really great to have our member states supporting us and we hope to hear from you Doreen the call. As a reminder if you want to make a comment and you're not feeling with Zoom you have to go to the chat box and put up your hand and we have a moderator who's monitoring that and we'll make sure we call in you in course. So what we're going to do in the next hour and 15 minutes already as mentioned by Fabrizio we have Vince standing by to kind of kick us off then we have several you lined up to share some initial thoughts and reactions and then we have some reactions also from the Secretary General's high-level digital cooperation panel in particular the group 1A on connectivity looked at some of the challenges that this crisis is creating and some of the solutions and so Chris and I were the co-leads representing ITU and UNICEF on that particular workgroup and we have many members of that workgroup on this call who I think will add in a few views in terms of solutions on what we're going to do going forward. So with that I'm going to hand over to my counterpart my colleague Chris Fabian many of you who know Chris know he's going to be the real hardcore timekeeper that's not my job for this part of the call so Chris over to you please thank you. Thanks Alex Fabrizio Doreen and thank you all for joining us and my job is really to get out of the way and let some super interesting people talk about the work that they're doing and so I'll do this with sort of as small introductions as possible and as much trying to move us into conversation as I can. My other point you'll hear me before we go into the speakers the main speakers give a little bit of introduction to my unique and very annoying moderating style but we'll do that after we hear some opening remarks from Vint who I believe needs no introduction to this crowd although Vint I did have a very strange dream about you last night where you asked me other than TCPIP what was my second favorite protocol and that was a that was a bizarre thing to wake up to so as you on the call know I'm sure Vint was responsible for developing many of the fundamentals of what we have as the internet today and continues to be a leading thinker in the space of digital connectivity and digital gaps some of the issues that both Fabrizio and Doreen highlighted in their opening remarks so Vint we're really delighted to have you give your opening remarks and hear from you sort of about the state of both what we have and what we should have and should aspire to in this difficult time but also a time where there's perhaps some opportunity shining through the clouds as well over to you Vint. Thanks so much I really appreciate this opportunity to participate and impressed that we have almost 280 people on this on this call let me start out by thanking Fabrizio and Doreen and Alex for their opening remarks they've covered quite a bit of the ground that I think we should be discussing today let me start out by observing that the COVID-19 virus the pandemic is actually forced on us to kind of stop taking exercise because we now recognize the utility of the internet and we ask ourselves where is it and where is it not and what can we do to make it more available I see this discussion today and the subsequent interactions that we'll have as enabling exercises that is to say we are learning how to enable the outcomes that we're looking for we want to expand access to the internet and to information and communication technologies we want this access to be affordable reliable safe accessible and useful that is to say that it has content which is of use and it has language capacity that allows people to get access to content in languages that they understand and speak and of course it has to be sustainable because if we take this COVID-19 exercise as a kind of forcing function and try to do something in a hurry if we don't think this through properly it won't be sustainable and we will have wasted a substantial amount of effort so figuring out how to do this in alignment with the sustainable development goals I think is very important element of all of this now there are other enabling considerations that we should keep in mind as we try to enhance access to the internet one of them has to do with a competitive regulatory framework so that we enable consumer choice we want people to have more than one choice about getting access to the network either with regard to service or with regard to equipment second a very very important part of this whole discussion is education not simply education about how to get access and how to use it but also how to take advantage of this as a means of making a living or of inventing new products and services so at the bottom line when you think about 50% of the world population not yet having had direct experience with the net is to understand that they need to be literate with regard to online environments so digital literacy is very important we need to be able to support entrepreneurship to take advantage of this this infrastructure and of course they are by implication risk capital and all the other apparatus that needed to create and run companies is vital so what do we need to do immediately well one thing we need desperately is high quality data where will we get that well there a couple of sources and immediately come to mind there's a project that I started at Google with many others outside of Google called M lab for measurement lab more recently the Marconi society which I chair has initiated a program of digital inclusion which includes getting access to better data where is the internet available where is it not available at what speeds is it available at what cost is it available and I must tell you that the data that is sometimes available is not always reliable as we would like in some cases it's provided by the internet service providers who would like to look better than perhaps they really are and I will even say it's embarrassing but I think it's true that some countries that report data want to look as good as possible and so the data that they offer may not necessarily be as precise as we need it to be so we need really good quality sources of information then we have to ask ourselves what applications are feasible where internet is available can people use the world wide web and email can they use high speed video conferencing as we are today what about what are the things are possible and finally collaborative applications at the one that we're the exercise we're in the middle of right this moment is a collaborative exercise facilitated by online technology and the internet I think of all the kinds of collaboration I do with my colleagues at Google and others where we have documents that we share and edit at the same time and then we might even have a video conference going so we can argue over whatever the content of that document happens to be so we have a really wonderful opportunity in the midst of crisis to use it as a rationale for doing really serious stop taking so we can then plan how to get the internet in everyone's hands after this crisis is over so we can take advantage of it and to prepare for the next crisis that will surely come along we just don't know what that black swan will be let me stop there I've taken up more than I than I should have I'm very very eager to hear from the rest of you what your ideas are in order to make progress on the fight thank you thanks man you didn't get anywhere near either the yellow card or the red card so big congratulations on that we have a really exciting lineup of five kind of situation analysis speakers who are going to give us an insight into their own markets and then another set of six or so people who give us an even shorter more precise input into some of the questions we're going to ask before we get into that just wanted to flag three things so first of all I'm usually not invited to moderate twice because I bring these things with me so we've given everybody we've asked you to speak in for four minutes for the first group and for about two minutes for the second group we also are monitoring the chat on the side so Jung he and others will pull comments from that and this will feed into the next set of webinars as well so all of your comments are encouraged and it goes to Vince third point on collaboration this is really a unique way for us to all surface what we're thinking and what we're talking about live and have that feed into the rest of the agenda of these of these zoom calls and before we get into introducing these five speakers I would say that it's been a real pleasure for UNICEF and ITU to lead a project on school connectivity over the last year or so which looks at first of all mapping where there is an isn't connectivity using mLab and other data sources and figuring out how to really understand the situation and then figuring out what kind of digital public goods need to go on top of that connectivity and so we've worked with many of you and Paula Mitchell and Tiziana it's great to have all of you on this first batch to look at this world as it is and as it emerges and I wanted to just highlight two questions which I'm going to lead into this discussion with I think that described a potential set of opportunities for us and those opportunities also come with darkness so we know from the game developer community that game traffic and on servers has increased about 75% in the COVID crisis that's because everybody's kids are online playing games all the time rather than doing the sort of homework that they're supposed to maybe but if you're part of the game economy if you're a kid who's playing a game if you're one of those people who has access you also have access to a trillion dollar digital asset class this is people who are buying new swords for their characters or new shoes or new land online in a digital world and trillion dollars is a conservative estimate that means that if you're one of those digital natives that Doreen talked about if you're lucky enough to have all of this you will be a royalty in the new world that is to come if you don't have access if you're one of the 3.5 billion plus you will have no access to that new financial set of mechanisms that are for sure emerging and so we see these opportunities we see sort of darkness is another one is that we've seen over the last few days discussions about contact tracing apps and things that can help people understand where COVID is and where it is and those apps rely on Bluetooth and a good smartphone and not a lot of people have those a conservative estimate in the US is that 60% of people have a smartphone of the type that could run these these applications and that doesn't even mean that it's been updated and it's ready to go so if we're looking at the technology that's being developed and whether we want to live in the sort of dystopic penopticon of contact tracing or not if you don't have the technology that people are developing for you are also left out of that you don't have the citizenship to move if you don't have that certificate you don't have the ability to get payment if you don't have those certificates and so that leads us again into this very split world so these are the two I mean I was just thinking about you know today how do we open this discussion with with really important and interesting thoughts from from our colleagues and I wanted to ask you to sort of have your four minutes of remarks looking at those two questions one is does the data the situation that you see does it play out to this dystopic kind of world that that we see from our data or is that I'm just being melodramatic what is what is the situation that you see right now and then the second is what is being done about it what are the things in your environment in your company or your country that you see as most appealing that can help us get into that place of sunshine and get ready for the future in a way that we're all together and prepared for and so with that I'd like to turn over and what we'll go with Paul the first Mitchell Joaquin Carlos and Tiziana so that's the order that I will call on you for and really you know asking you to look at those two questions with us sharing your views and also your hopes for what's coming with that Paula is the Minister of IT and innovation in Rwanda and an excellent champion of both the data that we need to move these questions forward and also the opportunities that digital provides so Paula I would turn it over to you as our first speaker thanks Christopher hello everyone it's an honor to join this series of discussions that are starting today and starting with a very important topic that is really the foundation of all the other sessions that we'll have going forward very quickly I wanted to as I respond to the two questions I wanted to just paint a picture I think very particularly for a country like ours and I want to believe it's the same case for many of the developing countries as well as the least developed countries the kind of issues that they are facing today especially as we all battle with the COVID-19 crisis is one looking at the surge or the strain that has been put on the connectivity infrastructure and Dorin said it very well I mean when you look at a particular case for Rwanda where we're seeing increasingly in terms of gaps you know our pattern that is changing when it comes to data consumption and usage where you know in the past the different operators MNOs were deploying and provisioning based on demand patterns and so you'd see a little focus and emphasis in the commercial areas offices and right now that everyone is working from home studying from home then you start to see a sudden surge when it comes to residential areas and so with we've been observing some of those that kind of strain with all the operators all our partners you know doing everything that they can to respond to the sudden demand that has happened in certain parts of the you know of the country then the other thing I mean earlier we did talk about how you have about 3.6 billion you know people that remain cut off and I want to believe that a big chunk of that is made up of you know people from developing countries and so while you know during such a crisis you see this problem exacerbated where you see the digital divide even more I think this is where we're seeing the biggest gaps as we go through such a time of course it has what you would call you know other aspects that you look at you don't look just at the connectivity I mean a country like ours where you're looking at a 97 internet penetration broadband connectivity is still low but it's not just you know having that infrastructure it's also thinking about having the right skills to be able to completely move and shift into remote working and studying online having the right tools the devices but also looking at the costs which could still be prohibitive in many cases and so this is really the scale of issues that we're dealing with as we try to think about the current situation of connectivity in our country but also in many other countries like ours as we during such a time very quickly also wanted to even sort of touch on what are we currently doing to respond to some of these things so there's one fast-tracking some of the initiatives that we already had which is you know improving broadband access in rural areas and what we are looking at is as we increase this you're prioritizing places like healthcare centers you're also looking at urban areas where you know you can no longer rely on mobile networks and what we are pushing for actively and mobilizing a lot of our partners is to now consider very urgently the ability to do fiber to the home so that you know many of these residential areas are Paula we lost you we lost you at residential areas and you are seem to be on mute now go ahead okay no I noticed some way well to saying I was muted by the host so that was the final that was my final points to sort of like talk about those you know interventions that we are now taking into consideration to respond to some of the challenges that we have thank you Paula thank you so much and I think that when we've been talking with you as well about looking at connectivity and providing that data it seems that really lined up with Vince comments about how important that data is of where there is an isn't connectivity you're really able to play a lead role and so maybe we can come back to that a little bit in the questions and discussions the other part that you point that you highlighted feeds in really well to some of the work we've done with Mitchell Baker Mitchell's the CEO and chairman of Mozilla Foundation CEO of Mozilla Company and also a friend and ally as we've been thinking about digital public goods or digital public assets what we provide on top of that connectivity and I think that in terms of being thoughtful about the class of open source digital public services that we need to provide and find resource and so on I couldn't imagine anybody better to give the remarks on that following what Paula said as well so Mitchell over to you thank you Chris and thank you for the gracious invitation I'm honored as well to join this group and I think Chris I'll just dive in with your question first which I'll rephrase as how do we think about the possibility of the dark future and can we be optimistic and and what could we do to be more optimistic and I'll tie that a little bit to Vince comments not to be flippant but there is the phrase never waste a crisis and so since we're in the middle of this crisis I would say I think the dark future is easy and it's certainly an easy to imagine in front of us both for the reasons we've described before and because if you think back to pre-COVID there was a very active global social discussion about the nature of the internet and technology and its impact on society and so right now we're focused on data or you mentioned the tracking COVID who had COVID tracking that but but until a few months ago the social conversation was much much broader and encompassed a range of topics and so I think if that gets lost we will have missed an opportunity here but you know at the risk of being a you know overly optimistic I will say that the crisis does cause change and so as human beings and as actors we can affect that change whether it's a change towards a darker world faster or whether we actually don't waste this crisis and we can make progress towards a called a brighter world faster faster one in which the digital public goods you mentioned the importance of those become clear and we're galvanized to provide the resources and the focus on building access and the necessary abilities and content and such on top of that and so with that I'll describe a few areas a little more specifically one of course is access access to everyone and so if we're going to make use of this crisis and and and move towards something that's not so dark as it could be you know the the prioritization of telecommunications infrastructure to reach everyone is something that we could really focus on right now the current regulatory financial and tech infrastructure we've seen it's not well suited to access for everyone who in remote and sparsely populated areas and and sometimes not well suited to the degree of brawn ban we need to actually live well online so that's an area that a focus where focus today can make a big difference for example the question of spectrum allocation or wireless spectrum to low-cost operators and enabling new business models and in rural areas where connectivity remains low and so I'll just mix in what Mozilla is doing rather than just you know listed at the end so for example we're working with the African telecommunications union to address exactly that kind of question and see what kind of policy and approaches we can devise that that enable the business models that make it sensible and in addition to the business models policies and practices that enable community networks and co-ops and small small isps because that that range we've seen that that range can be effective and and and certainly it's clear that you know the high-cost model you know of network operators is difficult to scale and the second piece would be investing in people right and that is people the content and education event mentioned also the set of people who are on the ground and understand the internet network architecture how to build and run and maintains that content and then the third piece is the kinds of choices for consumers applications for people to choose that treat data well thank you super thank you Mitchell it seems like we are and thank you everybody for being so time-conscious as well this is really great and it's gonna give us a good good ability to chat later but it seems like we're we're swirling around a few issues around regulatory around incentives and entrepreneurship and the services on top of the digital as well from our next speaker from Joaquin who's the global external affairs director of Vota phone would be very interested as well to hear from the perspective of an MNO of from the operator side where you come in on these types of issues that are being raised on this call Joaquin over to you thank you very much and thanks for inviting me I was touched on three areas that I think is absolutely essential which we have worked on and will work on very very hard as you know we are in the second epicenter after China which was Europe so unfortunately we've got practice very low early on on the type of challenges you're faced with and that trigger basically actions around the three plot parameters number one networks traffic is up massively we're talking about a 50% increase fixed in Europe Kenya after the lockdown 35% increase in mobile and by safari com Vota phone has around one-fifth of all the world's internet traffic running us on our network which isn't currently being handled by a few thousand households living rooms bedrooms across Europe as opposed to offices with a normal way of doing things so this is enormous pressure on the network and that's where all the effort goes I must say that we were someone referred to content moderation of course we have highlighted imports of traffic management and stuff like that to just make sure that everyone can rely on on on the internet at this point second one is critical services so this is a space where clearly over the last sort of six weeks in Europe you probably have had more digitization of healthcare than the previous 20 years combined so what we have done is that we ensure that the health we've expanded capacity very rapidly for health education work from home first week of COVID-19 in in Europe we basically moved to 200 2.5 million employees previously never worked from home to a home and work office environment a big concern we have here is the SMEs falling behind so we work on how to drive accelerate digital adoption by them and in the health space it's all about making sure that you have it's not only about access to internet information you can also use set up call centers and the like so that people can call in on the 2g phones which we're doing across them a very big concern here and I'm happy that someone mentioned it is disinformation this is going insane frankly combined with another thing which is a 300% increase in phishing attacks so organized crime as well as conspiracy theories are now running rampant and we do need to figure out a way of handling them the third bucket of issues that we deal with is what I call insights data and other applications so clearly we sit on the massive amount of data of how people move around so if you want to have effective containment measures we will be able to advise governments on an aggregated anonymous basis and that's the key words here exactly to what extent social distancing is actually happening in a country so we're doing that country by country it's very complicated to do this very laboring and main is prevented by regulation not by technical capabilities secondly we are getting into contact tracing so we have joints the Bluetooth Alliance in Europe helping them to develop contact tracing is absolutely correct it's not an a map solution or an Africa solution and we're very concerned about the attempts across certain countries to copy the lawful intercept type of framework into contact tracing which is treating those that are unfortunate among us that get infected as criminals so we have pushed very strong for a sort of privacy preserve approach on this final point just to say I think it's very important I think there is an opportunity out of this crisis and even if it's very very tough crisis for everyone involved I think there is a reset in our understanding of what do we mean by societal digital resilience and I mean that at individual level at business level as well as government level and for me I think we really do need to take a step back for concretely revisit exactly how we run spectrum options across the territory we need to drive in completely different affordability of services to accelerate digital applications in education and health improve security for sure and there are many I think that I think we can do not least in the area of digitizing estimates thank you perfect walking thank you you came in eight seconds before the red card there so this is clearly highlighting also the potential for these these cross-sectoral partnerships and in addition to the areas you mentioned I think that the questions as well of child protection and digital safety online are becoming keenly in focus so we look forward to hearing about that from some of the later speakers and from the audience our next speaker is is Carlos the commissioner director of the communications regulation commission in Colombia where in fact we did quite a bit of our initial school mapping and school connectivity mapping work about two years ago Carlos your your work in the ministries involved in that have been tremendously supportive of this idea of universal and universal and affordable access and it would be a pleasure to hear from you now about these two issues that we've raised on the call over to you thank you Christopher and first of all a good morning and I hope that you are well in this difficult moment in the world and I want to answer your question and analyze him the different measures that we made during the crisis and to clarifying where is our role from the CRC communication regulation commission in Colombia because we are their only regulator for competition communication markets quality service and protection of users it also assigns a tax that we mass develop for example simplifying regulation promoting investment guaranteeing technological updating in general promoting the deployment to the communication infrastructure for that reason that has led us play an important role in this policy and to consider a regulatory agenda that contributes to the closing connectivity gap that is today a real need for our countries about data we still have an average 40% of citizens without broadband internet connectivity that implies a great challenge especially in rural areas in our countries in 2020 the commission designed a very ambitious regulatory agenda many of these issues will have to be accelerated over time due to the coronavirus crisis but others will have to both to be postponed because they involved firework with citizens and homes and now I would like to present some topics that we believe are important to continue developing the connectivity policy in my country but before I want to present some decisions we made to guarantee the provision of the communication service during the coronavirus emergency in Colombia important step have been taken to ensure that people are connected during the crisis but it doesn't resolve the delay in the deployment of connectivity infrastructure or close the gap people needs measures to guarantee teleworking online education and e-commerce but in our countries not all jobs can be decides that the problem the problem remains the same and cannot be resolved during the crisis for the reason rather the median terms plans are being developed must be followed through we don't have immediate measures that we can solve the problem of the connectivity gap but we can guarantee some seats to some citizens can develop their economic activity education from home and in other hand accelerate the plans for 4g deployment for example another issue in this moment is the payment capacity of users it is a general problem that during the crisis gets bigger in Latin American countries and now with the crisis the measures that remain are for example reduction of rates by removing taxes for some plans and services guarantee a minimum capacity for internal browsing and text message guarantee free access to some minimum web pages of government service education especially for people with lower income and new deadlines to pay internet service bill for example and in the other hand reduce the time to run license for infrastructure deployment and installation of telecommunication infrastructure make it easier for internet providers to offer new plans and to have new users and I believe that after the coronavirus crisis we have to continue with our regulatory agenda with important topics roadmap to promote the modernization of mobile networks our 5g plan for example because the CRC we have different activities for 4g for 5g for example study the regulatory condition for the 5g deployment infrastructure for 5g quality service etc I believe finally I believe that we are defining our first regulatory sandbox in telecommunication I believe that's important because we need to improve the investment in our country and finally our challenge is now greater ICT is now a great hope for the world and for the economy of our country thank you Carlos thank you as well didn't even get to this but I love raising it anyway the issues I mean again so this is regulatory question and then the issues of financial inclusion seem to be really key in what we build even more strongly going forward and what kind of infrastructure we provide as we connect more and more public utilities public buildings and so on and what kind of financial arbitrage we can do as we move that connectivity out to more disconnected areas and I know that's been a real focus of some of the work that we've done within Mintic and others in Colombia so we'd love to hear more from you and over the next few weeks about that financial side as well it's also a great segue into the work that Tiziana has been leading and that her teams have been working on as the director of ICT and Disaster Risk Reduction in ESCAP in Southeast Asia and it was it's very interesting because the conversation that we had with Tiziana and Fabrizio started in Almonte in Kazakhstan a few months ago and it was so clear that as they're looking to provide financing solutions that cross Central Asia for example and look at cross-border financial inclusion identity connectivity and Disaster Risk Reduction all of these things come together that was before COVID and now we're really delighted Tiziana to hear from you and to ask you for a little bit of the perspective on sort of the Asian digital connectivity digital divide and how it's playing out in COVID and how ESCAP's making specific recommendations to governments within this framing so Tiziana delighted to have you as our final speaker for these opening remarks. Thank you thank you so much Christopher and I'd like to start off by thanking USG Hofschild and ASG Pogdan for the kind invitation and Christopher to you my compliments for the progress you have made on Giga since we last met in Almaty I went through the notes that you circulated earlier and as I was going through them I thought well COVID-19 has really made your initiative on getting every school connected to the internet an essential project and so I was pleased to see that progress and you have our support for continuous progress in that project. So Christopher before I talk about the digital divide I did want to maybe make one you know positive comment about you know one good thing that has come out of COVID and that is something perhaps that is very particular to Asia Pacific and that is that there is a very high consumer confidence in the region and increasingly digitally savvy shoppers and so notwithstanding you know the terrible you know the slowdown in economic growth the disruption of the supply chains we have actually seen a very dynamic e-commerce market and that in many cases you know sales are up by 60 percent or by you know between 30 to 60 percent in particular on food delivery business and medical medical equipment so that's that's one positive thing but of course the digital divide has been accelerating in the region half still remain offline as has been repeatedly said and you know notwithstanding the rapid advances that have been made in more recent years in terms of bringing mobile connectivity at affordable prices to more and more people these mobile networks are the low data transfer networks and so it's COVID has once again underlined that it's those that have access to fixed lines that are able to use the internet as the lifeline that it has emerged to be and so you know my key message I think is that while we have known for a long time and we have been advocating for a long time that maintaining the momentum in investments in in telecom networks is not enough and that accelerated momentum is needed if we are to meet the surge in future in the new demand that will be generated by frontier technologies this has become all the more urgent given our the experience that has emerged from COVID and governments have a clear leadership role to play in this and and so there are two proposals that ESCAP or two recommendations that ESCAP has been making to governments to help minimize the costs of investing and one is the dig one used many times recommendation which is really the code deployment of backbone fiber optic cable along other passive infrastructure networks such as highways roads railways and so on around 80 to 90 percent of the costs related to digging and excavation for the deployment of fiber optic cable is related to public works and to obtaining rights of way so if governments are obtaining rights of way and digging to build the roads to put down power lines then then code deploying with fiber optic cable would be a big cost saving and so borrowing the phrase from Doreen on we need a big dig we need a big dig we need to dig once use many times and then my final point is can we push once again for access to the internet as a fundamental human right thank you thank you Tiziana I think that those comments are very much also in line with what we heard in our discussions around the high level panel recommendations particularly 1a on infrastructure and 1b around the utility and so it seems like those five or five speakers really round out a very pertinent relevant and actionable set of opportunities for us and I'd be very interested in our wrap up and as we go forward to think through how those of us who were involved with the high level panel follow up can even take some of these things make them concrete or give examples based on what you've provided and I know that a lot of this is being captured in the chat what we'd like to do also is in interest of time to sort of hop directly into a set of smaller interventions specifically focused on things that are happening on specific initiatives so there will be a set of five or six speakers who will get two minutes and be subjected to the same brutal timekeeping so apologies from me to give us an update on work that they're doing or where they particularly come in from their personal professional level into this question I have a list that goes I'm indeed John Bruna Dennis Fatima Pavel Diego here sorry Enrica Diego here if there are other people please contact Junghee and we'll make sure that you're slotted in if you'd like to come into the open questions area please put that in the chat box and Junghee will work to make sure that your questions are included cool super cool I'm in deep you were a leader of the high level panel on digital cooperation and also look extensively at questions of the utility of this connectivity particularly for public health and we'd love to have you give the first two minute specific response to the sit-in and hear from you about how you see connectivity and COVID over to you Amity thank you very much Chris honored to be on this call in addition to the excellent points that previous speakers have made with regard to connectivity the shadow side and the light side I like to emphasize that this crisis has shown us that wherever connectivity has been supplemented with a base of digital public goods its impact its positive impact has been amplified so if for example the work on digital financial inclusion of the past few years had not been done in India it would have been impossible today to channel these emergency cash subsidies to hundreds of millions of people at one go so there is the internet connectivity aspect but there is a larger aspect of digital connectivity and digital public goods which we must keep in mind and this is one of the insights from the the panel as well the second point about the the current use of digital networks and data you mentioned Chris the tracing apps the evidence so far is that they are not playing a decisive role so they play somewhat of a psychological role they could eventually become useful provided the data that's coming out of them is channeled in an anonymized way into other data sets so it's combined with other data sets to help health authorities determine what's likely to be the burden on the health systems through the cast kid of care that follows an infection to help public authorities discuss how to allocate resources and model the impact of interventions on the management of the crisis so I'll end by just one point which is that so far I think this crisis is showing us more of the brighter side and less of the darker side and we need to think about how to take this into the future by focusing on more collaboration more digital cooperation around data thanks thank you for your comments and I think that in part of the discussions around our response to the high level panel we've looked at what specifically those digital public goods can be I wanted to turn over to John from UNHCR the chief innovation officer to give us his two minute update as well and to see where he sits on that spectrum of dark to light and what we are all able to do in the coming weeks and months John over to you thanks Chris and yes to clarify I'm leading on the connectivity for refugees initiative within UNHCR obviously when we're talking about connectivity the needs of the most marginalized should be at the forefront of our minds and with 71 million displaced persons you know the needs there are obviously massive research between the UNHCR has found that displaced populations in rural areas are usually about half as likely as hosting communities to have access to connectivity there are a number of barriers to this including legal and regulatory barriers that won't be necessarily presented to citizens based on the identity and credentials of recognition of these displaced persons and I think we also need to look at the fact that this is not an homogeneous group within these communities there are obviously divides such as gender divide marginalized persons such as people with disabilities these need to be addressed and I think that you know when we're talking about this debate this topic of digital inclusion is really paramount we want to ensure that those of the most marginalized communities including refugees and forced displaced persons can be considered within the both the legal and regulatory frameworks for access globally but also that interventions from private sector providers such as mobile network operators consider these groups in their interventions maybe. Thank you John you came in before the yellow card so I had to figure out where the unmute button was we have I think that this the question of how we engage with and make sure that the affordability around access is actually affordable for the world's most vulnerable populations and that the services are not only usable by them but also created with and created to create capacity among vulnerable populations is really key. We have two speakers now from Brazil who we hope will give us some insight into that particularly on sort of on the regulatory side and entrepreneurial side first from Bruna. Bruna over to you. Good morning everyone thank you for the space Christopher I'm going to work for coding rights which is an NGO that's discussing some of those subjects here in Brazil and in terms to general access and connection I just wanted to find out that generally internet broadband connection in Brazil it's still underway of implementation it's not universal it's not massively implemented and we continue to perceive some advances on the number of presidents who access the internet who have access to the internet but they are mostly on the level of the mobile access. Also on that note we we also would like to point out the the need to recognize community networks is a complement to those efforts by the public and the private sector and connecting the this what we're calling the next meeting or connecting whatever presidents are left outside. Our levels of connection to the internet are around 79.9 percent of the population but we're still considering that it's mostly mobile access we do still face those issues when it comes to access to information and how limited the mobile access and data caps can influence this full fruition of internet access. And lastly just point out some current draft views under discussion around our congress. We finally seem to be leaning towards this acknowledgement of access to internet as an essential service so and as a right and as a tool for completing your rights so we have a few initiatives here around prohibitions of suspensions or cuts at the service provision and and I know this is something people around this call are also mapping so thank you for this place. Bruna thank you very much and look forward to hearing and seeing some of the legislative pieces maybe put in the chat on the side so we can track those as well. Dennis I know that from the layman foundation you've been leading in addition to thinking about the content deployed in Brazil also thinking about some of the financing for connectivity and doing some really innovative work there and where it's just been such a pleasure to work with you and your team over the last few months. We welcome you to give some of your comments as well into the regional situation and the work that you're doing over to you Dennis. Thank you Chris pleasure to be here so I'm from the layman foundation from Brazil our main focus is to ensure all Brazilian all 40 million public school Brazilian students have access to high quality learning all the time so during the crisis this is a especially more sensitive issue. As Bruna said about 79% of them have access to some sort of mobile mostly connectivity at home so what what we did is we organized over the past three weeks a huge task force with federal state local governments over 30 foundations working together to put together basically two things organized content aligned to the national learning standards that can be developed through an app this app we negotiated with the telcos here in Brazil to be a zero rating app so either the government pays for the data or they do it for free or subsidized but the user doesn't pay for the data so that's critical even if people have access to mobile internet they cannot pay for the data right most of the users are prepaid who don't want to who cannot afford to use the data to education or might not choose to use the data for education so by putting all the content inside an app including live live lessons including interaction with the teachers including exercises frequency monitoring so all of that the experience comes from the experience of the amazon in brazil where they traditionally have to use distance learning so it's the same kind of app and now it's being deployed all over the country over five million students already have access to the app but the plan is to the to the end of next week to be able to cover all of them last point is someone mentioned on the chat we're also built a a chain of network of television stations over 30 TVs are part of this effort television reaches almost a hundred percent of networks so that's another key I think partner in delivering high quality education for all with equity during the crisis thank you Dennis thank you very much and I know that Rwanda and many others are looking at that television access layer so it may be another piece of follow-up that we can do as a community to highlight lessons from that and what's what's working and what's not as well as some of the content that's working the best we have four more speakers before the end of this section Fatima from Microsoft I will turn it over to you AirBand initiative and I'm based out in Seattle in Washington state if you're unfamiliar with AirBand we're a part of the technology and corporate responsibility focus of Microsoft and our mission is to make affordable broadband internet access a reality for underserved communities around the world with a particular focus on rural areas both in the US and globally we work with local internet service providers and or AirBand partners for a lot of our projects and our partners have been a tremendous asset during this time in the midst of the pandemic they're conducting their essential business ensuring that rural communities in particular have wider access to broadband as well as broadband enabled services right now aside from reporting higher than ever network demand and connectivity usage due to school and business closures our partners have developed very creative solutions for the communities they serve like removing data caps providing free high-speed broadband access for student income eligible households construction of hundreds of public wi-fi spots in public areas wet parking such as fairgrounds so community members are able to access the internet while practicing social distancing and this has provided access to community services like distance learning telemedicine telework filling critical forms such as unemployment applications and other solutions that are necessary for modern life in addition to connectivity one thing that I'd like to highlight is that Microsoft has also made teams which is a software for a secure communications platform like multiple party chats audio calling video calling for remote collaboration and in terms of our initial learnings that I bought about by the pandemic I think this really presents an opportunity for those of us who are working to close the broadband gap to move quickly to advanced policy infrastructure and tools that will really address this urgent need now and permanently thank you super fatima thank you very much and in fact we'll be hearing a little bit about some of the work on advancing policy and regulatory I hope from Pavel Pavel is the chairman deputy chairman of I always get your title wrong Pavel you're the as far as I'm concerned you're the guy in charge for all of the digital connectivity work that's happening in Kazakhstan at zair day the national info comm holding and a partner as we're thinking about not only the regulatory but also the financing part of connectivity Pavel with apologies for butchering your title over to you for your intervention thank you very much and I'd like to join this webinar to share the Kazakhstan case study so even though Kazakhstan has a fairly stable and high speed internet it increases number of users due to the lockdown to let so the few network failures for example as the fact that distance education for Kazakh children in the first few days as well load the e-government portal using mass influx of users this was the pretty obvious as which with introduction of quarantine most of the people went online by the beginning of april traffic of the networks of telecom operators in a country increased by 20 percent both of international communications challenge and the local resources however half of the internet traffic that could load our external communication channels is localizing Kazakhstan this is significantly improved as of the content for the many resources specifically educational one secondly I would like to give a few examples of how the internet and technology helped to adapt the new conditions by the president's order the Ministry of Health together with Kazakhstan 80 companies has established IT task force that has developed and launched a number of IT solutions against coronavirus for example online questionnaires is allow to pass an express test and identify the symptoms of coronavirus for preliminary self diagnosis or mobile app that control movements of person who are in contact with the infected people also the contact signing mobile operators have provided free communications with internet and mobile for all medical stuff in order to reduce the social context of public service centers in Kazakhstan and we hand bill close and instead people have the opportunity to receive public services through the e-governmental portal one of the most demanded public services for our citizens issuance of electronic digital signature we also moved it online I mean for a low technology is well known but it need time just to introduce this kind of in distant solutions the cloud document management for 20 000 government and police was introduced and now they able to work remotely school children and a lot of examples was given with a blended learning together with the tv channels and internet channels was also introduced and I think it's a lot of great learnings can be done after at least one month of these options so we ready and we believe that all the governments should share this kind of experience and thank you thank you so much it's a pleasure to have you as a partner in these initiatives and thank you so much for the digitalization work that you're doing our second to last intervention will come from Enrica the chair of the etc and director of it at world food program and also a huge supporter of connectivity in some of the most difficult situations in the world Enrica over to you thanks thanks very much chris and thanks for the invitation I'll just give a few comments on maybe on risk communications it was interesting hearing about the connected as you rightfully pointed out the wolf program operates in a number of countries where there is a with a digital divide is pervasive there's a lot of non-connected however a lot of non-connected may be non-connected through the what we what we expect in terms of broadband connectivity and and but there's still a lot of connect connections that go that happens at community level around life-saving and life-affirming communication through community radios through televisions so we basically try to use every connectivity options to get to in the hands of those who need the of the most vulnerable people information that that is reliable rapid and regular so that they can make more informed decisions about about about the future so as I said communication is both life affirming for people to to make their own decisions and life savings not only for the people we serve but also for the humanitarians themselves so with at times operating very complex situations where we may not even as humanitarians have access to advanced technologies so we look at opportunities of leveraging you know less less advanced communication tools to to be able to operate in in complex situations so as I said for the people that that we serve the most important thing the most important work that we do is really put try to support the the the health sector in putting reliable information in the hands who need it most to try and to avoid the challenges that we saw during the West Africa Ebola virus disease outbreak in 2014 that's all I wanted to say thank you. Enrica thank you very much and I think that we've seen this merging of health and education and financial services coming really to a clear point here which wasn't I think the case we didn't have that capacity during Ebola so there there may be an opportunity there as well and thank you for the ETC's leadership on on that type of response. Our last speaker in this before we hand it back over to Alex for some final thoughts and then to to Doreen and Fabrizio as well to close is Diego Diego from the government of Mexico will give us a situation update from Mexico City and Diego we would be very happy to hear from you as our closing intervention of this period over to you. Thank you Chris and rather than talking about the current situation in Mexico I will speak about the efforts of Mexico when it comes to the advancing the conversation on digital technologies at the UN and and I think this is important and I would like to thank for convening this conversation because I think it is the beginning to start talking about the different initiatives and the different findings that we have been encountering in the different groups on the follow-up and recommendations of the of the high-level panel on digital cooperation. Mexico has been championing along with UN women a recommendation one C and one D on digital inclusion and metrics so I really think that this conversation is really helpful in trying to see the connections that we have for instance among the and I think it is important this different groups because we are talking about 50 percent of the world population being offline but actually when we go into the details of the different groups in vulnerable situations those figures race and when we're talking about women and girls when we're talking about migrants, refugees, IDPs, older persons, youth children, persons with disabilities, world populations and indigenous peoples these figures race and I think it is it is important to look at them. The other element that is important is that we found when we were doing the mapping of the different initiatives is that there are scattered efforts and I think that here is very useful to have these conversations but at the same time one of the conclusions of the of the of the work of the of the group was that it is important to have an online platform on this particular element to try to see what are the best practices with the different issues and just to close I think that another element that will be important to consider is the discussion on telemedicine particularly in a situation and a crisis that is arising from the issue of a virus it will be relevant to talk about it so I will keep it here thank you Chris. Thank you so much Diego. Well I have really enjoyed hearing from all of you and I hope I've well this is the most difficult job because I offend all of my friends and then everybody else feels like I'm just a vicious moderator but we've managed to keep ourselves somewhat on time and what I'd really like to do is to use this as an opportunity to consolidate some of that as Diego as you just said and make sure that we're making available as a community the resources around data around regulations financing and so on that we heard from all of you as being fundamental to what we build afterwards. Thank you so much for letting me moderate you I promise that next time somebody can do the same horrific thing to me I wanted to hand back over to my co-moderator Alex for his wrap up and then we will close with some words from Doreen and Dabrizio but all of you it's been a pleasure and I couldn't be more appreciative of working with all of you than I am so thank you Alex over to you. Thank you Chris. Before I do a very brief summary of the conversation I wanted to invite Vice Minister Yamada if she's still on the phone or she wanted to add a quick intervention maybe as we get towards the end of the call so just calling to see if she is still on the line. Okay it may have it's quite late over in Japan so maybe I think I would just summarize on the following. Hello Vice Minister Yamada please over to you please. Yes thank you very much it is almost midnight in Japan and so I'm very sleepy but I enjoyed the the conversation and all the presentation very much and I found again that the now the issue of the connectivity is the issue of life now so and so so we have many experiences and for the next next year I'd like to introduce many Japanese initiatives but so this time I learned a lot and thank you very much. Thank you Vice Minister so I think my my summary here is that I mean on a broad level we covered the big topics of data there seems to be a good movement about how do we make data available we talked about safety we touched on that the safe side or the non-dark side of the internet and I think that's worth more discussion in a future call overall everyone recognized the importance of access how can we make it better more sustainable more faster and then finally I think what was really interesting in the chat as I always want reading all the chats and also the individual interventions at the country level is there is a huge amount of resources both platforms that are collecting best practices and regulatory guidance notes and advice on how this should be done or that and equally on the country side I mean I was fascinated but to hear some of these examples of what some countries are doing and more importantly or equally importantly what are the governments and the operators and the community of stakeholders in those countries doing because I would suspect if you're a minister or a government official or a leader in one country knowing what another country is doing and using that as an example helps move things in your own country so I think really what I would suggest we do as a as the moderators and as a as a high-level panel follow-up to this group is we have to log all of this all these links that are being put on the chats as well as individuals who've presented what they're doing in their countries I guess the invitation is to send a he we're going to use what's on the chat already but if you also have any additional examples or case studies of materials that you've done in your country send that and I'll just make the commitment now and we'll have to figure out which one you how to do it is we need to catalog all this because I think what this call is showing is we have a great group of people who are all doing great things and we need to be sharing and if we can already get started on that that's already one very positive outcome from this call so with that we have but we have six minutes left so I'm going to hand back over to Fabrizio and Doreen to close us off three minutes each to get us done on time so maybe Fabrizio I'll go in reverse order over to you first and then over to Doreen to to close us thank you thank you and thank Chris for the excellent moderation I think this was a tremendously rich debate I think we did a deep dive into some of the problems first infrastructure whether it's present or absence and its resilience second the issue of adequate regulation that is conducive three the key issue of affordability which we keep coming back to I mean it's not just presence of infrastructure access has to be affordable and that's particularly relevant and that point was highlighted from Basilan elsewhere that there's affordable access in data for education and then the issue also came up that not all jobs can be digitalized and that's something that we need to be mindful of and then fifth the issue of security I mean the increase is in phishing 300 percent increase of phishing set by Vodafone with a 50 percent increase in use so that shows criminals are outpacing the increased use and then of course related to security is the whole issue of how data can be better used for public health purposes but at the same time in an anonymized way that doesn't incur on people's privacy it's very clear that these problems that have come to light many of them don't have quick fixes others do like regulation but what is also clear is that the only way to find fixes is through these sorts of multi-stakeholder discussions that we have here bringing together the private sector civil society government and exchanging best practices and best approaches so I think if nothing else is validated it's this approach that is also very much at the heart of the Secretary General's approach and I think if we continue working on these lines and we build coalitions and alliances we can address these problems and get to the ultimate aim that Vint set out to the beginning which is reliable safe affordable accessible useful and sustainable access thank you so I'll jump in but I think Fabrizio you said it very well I just want to thank everyone this has really been an incredibly rich discussion this is the beginning though a beginning of a of a series so many of the comments that were raised will be taken up in the next four webinars the next one is next week on on April 22nd we had I think at one point some 280 participants from of course all corners of the world and I thank the vice minister for staying up with us so late that's great but for me what I really took from this discussion there was a lot as Fabrizio mentioned on the negative side so you've all stressed the importance of bridging the digital divide and the fact that there is a divide is really exacerbating inequalities in this difficult time the security issues huge huge challenge there we need to keep cyber crime cybersecurity at the top of our agenda and on the chat a number of you have also raised the child online protection issue so we do need to keep that in mind the misinformation disinformation as well and then on on the opportunity or on the positive side I hate to say positive side but let's say the opportunity side I got to see Fabrizio and vent two days in a row which is great so that's nice but I think really on the positive side is what we've seen during the the the course of this call is that the spirit of collaboration is there the the willingness to partner is also there so many of you have have shared the great work that you're doing either with partners or on your own and that's really terrific and so we need to as Mitchell said we can't waste this crisis we really need to take advantage of this moment and and forge forward on connectivity the other good thing is that no one will ever doubt the importance of connectivity after this crisis and again Mitchell with what you said Christ the crisis causes change and it is in our power to make progress towards taking the best of this crisis so again let's make sure that we we advance and really galvanize commitment around infrastructure and move that forward into concrete projects so that we can close the digital divide and finally just to invite you to join us next week on the 22nd for our next dialogue we will be looking at connectivity best practices with a question mark and so I hope that you will will all join us for that that discussion and with that Alex I think I hand back to you thank you no thank you Doreen and for Rito and all of our speakers and everyone joining I know there's so much rich expertise so let's keep the chat but we're going to close it obviously with a call ends but we'll record that and please send a genre anything else I think she sent her email in the note but you all have her email I think for this call so I think just on behalf of also Chris my partner here in crime thank you very much everyone looking forward to your continued participation goodbye everyone good night good morning good afternoon thank you all thank you and we finished exactly on time and stay safe everyone stay safe thank you all congratulations thank you thank you