 Names of all the attendees. Yeah. Yes. It's more so do you want to wait a few more minutes? Because we have a quorum. Do you want us to start? If you want to start with the review of the agenda. Like the agenda piece. I can do that. And so maybe some additional attendees will arrive. Okay. I'll, you could. We can go live in one minute. Let's do that way. Oh, we are live. We are live. Okay. We can go live right now then. Good evening, everyone. Good evening. Community safety working group. It appears we have a quorum. For this evening session. And which is beginning. At 5 33. PM. Being called to order. And I'd like to begin by taking a roll call of attendance. Please. Please. I'd like to take a moment to acknowledge. That you're here. Miss Ferreira. Yeah. Miss Owen. Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah. Miss. Miss. Miss Walker. Yeah. Mr. Cage. And myself. As always, I thank you for all the work that you're putting forth on behalf of the town of Amherst to do this, to complete this important task to really bring some additional information to our community about safety in particular in relation to the Amherst Police Department. I'm going to just quickly review the agenda for the evening. We're going to go through our public comment as normal, as we usually do. We're going to open it up to open the floor up to our working group members to see if they have any other pre-meeting announcements or some things they want to tell us about what they've been doing relative to this work since the last meeting. And then from there, we're going to go right into our action and discussion items section, which is tonight, our first community-wide forum. After that, we will see if there are any upcoming events that need to be announced within the group, and we will announce our next meeting date. And then any other tasks we need to bring forward that haven't been brought to the chair's attention in the last 48 hours, and then finally, we'll adjourn. So, given that, I would like to open up our meeting this evening to see if we have any public comments that need to be made for those who are not familiar with this process. We are a listening group, and we usually devote up to 15 minutes for this particular piece, so we welcome your comments and thoughts at this time. If you can be recognized, I don't know, Ms. Moyson, I guess, or Mr. Hannon will acknowledge you. There are no hands up as of yet. Okay, wait a couple seconds. Okay, again, thank you everyone for being here. Just like to touch base quickly with our working group members. We've been meeting a lot lately discussing a lot working a lot, but it's always good to touch base to see if there are any things prior to our action discussion items that you'd like to share with with the group. And I think that's a good update relative to our work, things you want us to know about your experiences, and then we'll move forward. Okay, seeing none, I think we'll get to the heart of our business this evening, which is our community forum. Ms. Moyson, may I turn it over to you. You may. I'm just going to do a little bit of share screen sharing at the moment. So good evening and welcome to the first community safety working group community forum for those who do not know me my name is Jennifer Moyson I'm one of three community participation officers for the town of Amherst as well as the staff liaison for the community safety working helping out today is it director Sean Hannon and it is an honor to be here with you all as always I have a few logistics to go over. So this is a safe place and we will practice confidentiality, compassionate listening respect, speaking from our own experiences and no judgment and no shaming. So we'll zoom webinar only panelists and community member speaking will be seen. There is no community chat function. Please prevent background noise by keeping your microphone on mute which you can find on the lower left side of your screen or star six on your phone. You may also raise your hand if you wish to share your experience click on participants at the bottom of your screen. Choose the raise hand icon or star nine on your phone. To introduce the community safety working group members, we have Mr Paul Wiley chair, Brianna Owen vice chair to Sheena Bowman, Darius Cage, Deborah Ferrera, Miss Pat on a Baku Russ Vernon Jones and Alicia Walker. I'd like to start this event off with the statement of the indigenous heritage of the land. And so we humble humbly acknowledge that we stand on non attack land, acknowledging also our neighboring indigenous nations. Then, not muck, and the one, one Panag to the east, the Mohegan and Pico to the south, and the Mohegan to the west and the Abenaki to the north. I would also like to acknowledge the contributions of African Americans written by Amherst resident Lauren Mills. This recognizes the generations of African Americans that have contributed to the development of agriculture and historical academic preservation from the past to the present. We also recognize the rich spiritual culture artistic contribution and pursuits of justice that haven't reached the communities in which African Americans have lived worked persevered and achieved. So here are the list of questions and I'm now going to hand it over to chair Paul Wiley. Thank you, Miss Moisten. We as a working group have been working together since first week in December and collectively we put together a statement and opening statement for our community forums which I'd like to to read at this time. We do want to welcome our greater Amherst community to the first of two public forums by the community safety working group, or as we like to call ourselves CSWG. A second forum will be held on Saturday, January 16 from three to 5pm. These forums have been planned and organized by the CSWG to provide a vehicle for our group to listen to the comments thoughts and ideas relative to issues of safety and experiences of community community members with our Amherst police department. These forums are in keeping with the group's purpose and charge to execute the following. I'm going to take a minute here just to talk about our purpose and our charge, both which are on the on the website where you can reference them as you as you see fit. But our purpose, the purpose of the community safety working group is to make recommendations on alternative ways of providing public safety services in in the community and making recommendations on reform to the current organizational and oversight structures of the Amherst police department. Our charge is very straightforward. We're here to study the complex issues of delivering community safety services, currently provided through the police department and other means to ensure racial equity. Currently under this particular charge we are here to recommend reforms to the current organizational and oversight structures, examine existing town funding priorities for delivering community safety services. And the working group can achieve this by doing the following. We're going to review from previous work by the town through previous studies and committees, examining public safety services, and how they are delivered, reviewing policies, complaints, and current training practices, exploring models of resident oversight of police departments, and data from people's experiences in Amherst, engaging the communities most impacted by policing to develop alternatives and identify solutions to diagnose problems. And finally, we are investigating alternative models, such as Eugene to whose crisis assistance, helping out in on the street, Albuquerque would have community safety alternatives. Denver star, the support team assisted response are just a few examples. The CSWG has been meeting weekly on Wednesday since the first week in December, with the exception of the last week in December 2020 to fulfill its duties and responsibilities to the town of Amherst. Our meetings are recorded and open to the public following open meeting law guidelines. You can find our agenda and links to the weekly zoom weekly webinars on the town Amherst town of Amherst website at www.amherstmass.com Amherst ma.gov I'm sorry. Both forums that we're scheduled to have will fill be facilitated by Ms. Jennifer Moisten. You lays on to the town town of Amherst town manager's office. And the CWG will present questions, which will serve as conversation prompts for those who wish to speak. We have noted that we offer these questions to broaden the arena for responses and comments. They are not presented as a fixed list of specific questions to be answered separately. Our hope is that the open ended approach will provide a useful and supportive space for sharing. We have made a big track of each person's speaking time to ensure that everyone has a fair opportunity to express their views to the working group. And that being said, we have decided to hear from BIPOC or black indigenous people of color voices first. Although we decided to hear from traditionally marginalized peoples first. We trust that we do want to hear and plan to take seriously input from everyone. While we will not be responding to comments from the community, our role will be to listen deeply and respectfully for what is being offered and to use the feedback to inform our work going forward. And two hours for each of these forums. These forums will be recorded and posted on our town website within the community safety working groups portal where they may be accessed by the community. Again, we want to welcome you to our first forum. And we look forward to learning from you in the two hours we spend together. Thank you for coming. Okay, so I recognize that our hearts have been broken and healed and broken again and now after the events of last Wednesday's siege on the Capitol, our hearts are heavy. Referencing Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King's junior book and address I ask you all where do we go from here, community or chaos. Many would say that there has been chaos for some time now. I also recognize that we are here and Amherst are sheltered in our tofu curtain of a town called Amherst but it is the small communities of the nation that can help heal and mend our nation as a whole. We will. I ask that we all take a moment for some deep healing breathing so we can open our hearts and minds as I ring the singing bowl please take a few deep breaths with me. I don't know if you guys hope you can hear it. We now open the floor to hear your lived experiences. If you would like to speak please raise your hand using the raise hand function. When you've been called upon we will ask you to identify yourself and you will then be brought in as a panelist if you wish not to show yourself and to stay anonymous please turn your camera off each speaker will have about five minutes to speak. I now open the floor for comments. I can't quite see the panelists do we have any hands raised. No no one has their hands raised right now. Vera cage just raised their hand. Oh yes, Vera may come in. Hi Vera do you have something like experience you would like to share. Okay, can you hear me. Yes. Okay, great. I wanted to. My name is very cage. I have lived in this community. For about 15 years now, just about the past 15 years and before that I came to UMass in 1993 to attend UMass. I came to came back to Amherst because I thought this would be a wonderful place to raise my children, and just, you know, fast forward. Right now I have a 14 year old in my home, and also a 17 year old, and I think this is with with with my understanding of the police so far is that you know just based upon Chief Scott Livingstone's comments in the paper, you know that he can barely recall when there was a gun discharged right a police officer discharging a gun. And so, so my comment would support finding resources alternative to the police in terms of funding the police to be to better serve our young people. In other communities, there's teen empowerment research resource type centers programming, and I find that that's lacking in this community. We have leisure services or what was formerly leisure services. And I believe that that's just not adequate for this community. This community had a program outside of the school district called Youth Action Coalition, where the school district took over, or there was an after school out of school time grant that the school district was able to secure and so that left that small nonprofit youth organization, and so there hasn't been anything to fill that void. And, but I want to recognize that there's the Boys and Girls Club. But I know that they could probably be better served as well, and could probably attest that there's not enough recreational spaces that are readily available. Or for families without the means to take, you know, these extensive vacations and all that stuff. I want to say that the experiences with the police are different for BIPOC communities. We know advocates in the school district that had to support families whose middle school age child was in juvenile detention because of, you know, our school districts inability to serve that family, you know, without having to rely on the criminal justice system. So families, you know, and I want to break the ice and I just want to acknowledge that you're probably not going to hear a lot from the most vulnerable communities that need to be heard, because there are so many issues involved. It takes a lot of courage to speak about the police and even more courage to speak against the police. And in my experience working with families in supporting them to be able to come out and support their young person who has had a negative interaction with the police. There is fear of retaliation because perhaps a member of their family, a loved one, is not documented. And so when we, when we, you know, I think the committee needs to be aware that while, you know, we have these, you're holding these public forums. And in my experience, too, with the school district, these public forums are probably not the best ways, best way to engage with community. I know that in the school district when we want to engage with families, we've been wanting to get the school system to put in money to do participant act, participatory action research type of methods to bring and engage with community. We also want to be able to compensate people for their time. We want people to share and divulge and all of these things. But there's a lot of costs, a lot of risks, a lot of consequences people are weighing when when they're trying to to make these decisions to open up and to engage. The Department of Children and Family, you know, is another entity with the police that a lot of folks, you know, aren't too keen about. So when you're talking, you're a public, you know, committee, and you want to hear from real voices, real residents. You're probably going to have to think about other strategies that are perhaps, you know, longer term, that are perhaps more about investing in in in leadership development and young people. I would love to see this community do like the summer jobs program where young people can be employed. When they turn, you know, 14 they can get their working papers, you know, I want them to be able to after COVID is over, you know, be able to work in town hall, be able to shadow, you know, different people in their capacities, because town hall needs to really be racially diverse in order for us to really have racial equity in this community. That that'll help a lot. Over my time here in Amherst, you know, I've seen the ceremony where you you welcome in new employees, either whether they're police or fire. And I was in a room and one day I just it was just so stark to me that everyone who was, you know, hired. I mean, it just was a sea of white people. And that that was pretty stark to me when when I experienced that. And so I, I'll pause right there because I see Jennifer coming on and I don't know if there are other people waiting to speak so I'll just I've done my job of breaking the ice and I hope other people will say something. Thank you. Thank you so much for your you could continue there are no hands raised. I think that the CSWG is finding your input right now very helpful. And so, if you have more to share that would be great. If not, we can open up again to the floor and ask if others have something to share. Yes, more than if no one, if there are no hands raised I'd like to extend Miss Cage's time for at least a couple of more minutes if she has some final comments to make so that we can also give other people a chance to come in. But that's actually my daughter Monica cage wants to join so I'll mute and Sean to see Monica if you can bring her in. Right now. Hello. Can you all hear me. Okay, so my name is Monica cage and I'm a senior at the high school. And, like you mentioned earlier, we are kind of in this level and Amherst right but I do have a large handful of, you know, my black male friends who are starting to drive. And everything. And we have this one big group chat and it's like whenever someone gets pulled over. They like, they let us know and they're so scared and it's, it's overwhelming like I'll like I can't like put my phone down until I know that they're okay. And whenever they have these interactions whether it be like for something really small. They shouldn't have to have their like chess, like, like their heart beating through their chest like they shouldn't have to be so scared but that's just the reality. I don't think that we can like find a solution to make that like go away because that's, that's, that's, it is what it is right but I think that if, you know, there is a connection that is built between police officers and like black youth, like it's not like if they, if they just recognize an officer's face they can know that it's not the end of the world there there's a sense of comfort there's something. I don't know because like that just happens so so frequently. It's like once a week like I'm seeing one of my friends getting pulled over and they're just conveying how like stressed and how like scared they were. So, I just think that we should find a way to like build that bridge instead of having these kids who didn't do anything wrong, think that their life is going to be over when in reality, like it, it may be something just smaller than that. But that's just what I wanted to say. Thank you. Thank you, Monica for sharing. And so we can open back up to the community. If anyone would like to share. And I'm going to ask the community safety working group members if they have questions and in regards to anything that Miss Monica or Miss Vera shared or feel like they need some more information. Yes, Miss Pat. I was expressing my own opinion. I'm not actually surprised that some resident will be hesitant to come out to speak publicly. So, I knew this was coming. I was surprised and that's why I was pushing for ambassador type of concept to get more resources to help us have people who are comfortable going into the, you know, grassroots to get information from us. So I'm not surprised to me. There is a lack of trust with authority for multiple reasons. And then when you gear it specifically to the police that becomes a little bit more problematic. So other ways of reach of reaching out and connecting to the community would are ways to do that. So it's very hard to connect with individuals as a whole. And we have a few new individuals in the audience would anybody like to share any experiences that they've had, or any experiences that they've witnessed my. Yes, Vera. Okay. Let's see. You know, I think that I just wanted to speak to the police force and or and how police, how some communities may view the police. You know, something that may seem harmless can be experienced in totally different ways. And, you know, for, for example, I think, I think communities are rightfully fearful of the police. I think speaking to what happened at the Capitol. It confirms people's sentiment that the police come down harsher on people communities of color. They do when they're able to see themselves in the people that they're, you know, that that were riot, you know, trying to riot and force themselves into the into the Capitol building. You know, and for for Amorous, you know, there's a lot of work to be done, especially engaging, you know, with with young people. I know there were a group of boys of color that were hanging out in town in front of the fire station. You know, and this also speaks to the lack of places for young people to congregate, you know, to, to be and to socialize. And so, you know, they were getting food and they were outside waiting for other friends to come by and, you know, a police officer engaged with them and said, you know, they just got a call that there was shoplifting that took place at the CBS nearby. They subsequently told them that they had to, you know, go with the officer into the CBS and, you know, they, they felt that they had to, because there was the threat of arrest. And so, you know, experiences like that. It just, you know, it's, it's pretty traumatic for young people. And in reading the police report, you know, the perspective of the police that they were somehow they thought that they were perceived to have been friendly that they weren't threatening and that they weren't trying to instill fear in in these, you know, young people. And so, you know, I think that you're never going to hear, you know, these young people file a complaint with the Human Rights Commission or go to the police station, you know, and say that they have a grievance against how they were treated by an officer. These young people know that they have to live in this community their parents have to live in this community. And, and so they, they just, you know, have to have to deal with that as part of their experience. And, and I think it could be very triggering and traumatizing. And I don't believe that there's enough people for, for young people to process this and to engage with each other and to really, you know, feel empowered in this community to have a voice and to, to, to change the course of their, you know, their experiences. So that's, that's one example and also, you know, you know, this, the experience of having the police come to your door, you know, to ask questions and all those those things I mean those are, those are experiences that can be very troubling for for people. And so I think they're when I hear that, you know, some of these police officers that we have, you know, that we're hiring and they're coming from predominantly white all white communities. And they come here to to Amherst, you know, we're a lot more diverse, you know, than than other communities nearby, you know, that we're recruiting from. You know, the issue of, you know, we have educators on the on the working group but the middle school has always been that I've heard, you know, really, you know, hard time for for young people and I part of it I believe is the fact that we have children and then now they're, you know, they're being in an environment with like people from Leverett or shootsberry or Pellum where it isn't that diverse. And so there's, you know, there may be misunderstandings arguments fights that happen in that setting. And when you add in the school to prison pipeline and the, the disparate, you know, disciplinary actions that take place. You know, you're even though, you know, I think the school district recently passed a resolution to not have school resource officers. And that, you know, we don't have to when you know school districts who personnel can just call and they're right there. And, and there, and there's not enough, you know, I think crime happening in this community so they'll show up, you know, to deal with with young people. And then we're not thinking about other ways to support young people and their development. So as they go to school as they're being socialized and all that, all that so. Thank you. Thank you again, Vera. Thank you. Thank you. Could I ask Miss cage. Quick question a follow up question. Hi Vera. Can I ask, in terms of talking about you feel like the Amherst police department that they have any outreach in in our communities in our BIPOC communities in Amherst. Do you see them, you know, the programs activities with young people. I, I've only heard, I mean, that's not something that I would necessarily want police officers to be doing, you know, they're armed. Armed people that are supposed to be, you know, doing other things except, you know, so that's not I don't think their strength and with respect to engaging with youth. I'd rather see that happening elsewhere. But what I do here in terms of interactions with young people I mean I, you know, I, you know, there was a story that was, there was an account that was told to me about how, you know, police officers are looking for young people. If they are suspecting them of, you know, smoking weed or selling drugs or something like that so that, you know, they're, they're being engaged with them on the streets. And so these are young people that aren't with adults, you know, and the police officers are talking to them and wanting to find out stuff. So, so that's, those are accounts that I've heard about, and then they're, they're being, you know, tracked or monitored in the schools. And before you know it, you know, they're in the involved in the criminal justice system. So, yeah, so so that's, that's, yeah, I don't know if that answered your question but but um, you know, these. I don't want us to be focusing on your supporting and funding programming that will engage the police with with young people with that respect I think that, you know, people don't want to deal with the police. They want to live their life they want to have good experiences that doesn't involve the cops. Appreciate it. And Vera, can I just follow up so I know that there was a police officer who during his off duty time spent coaching basketball, and that created a great relationship with some of the youth. So, how do you feel about that type of outrage. And if those off if that officer is spending time in this community and, you know, I think, great, you know, I think that is, you know, the more you, you empathize and, you know, with with people and with communities, you know, that's, that should be part of the requirement and qualification. So you're just saying not, don't show up to the events, perhaps, full suited, trying to hang out with the kids. I mean, I'm, you know, I, I, you know, I am not. I think, I think people experience, you know, differently, you know, even knowing that their cops, you know, I think people's experiences are real and cops aren't, you know, they're, they're trained to, to do violent things, you know, they're trained to, to be in situations where they can kill somebody they can name somebody they can hurt somebody they can, you know, it's a power, you know, it's a powerful position, it's a powerful job. And so we don't know the types of experiences young people come up, you know, have, have lived. And for some people that might be a turn off, you know, they might avoid being putting themselves in that scenario situation. But, you know, for, for that cop who wants to engage with young people and they want to put themselves in that situation and be that, that cop and that that's what, you know, that's. Thank you. And I see that Donovan Robinson has his hand raised. Sean, could you let a minute's of panelists please. Yes. Welcome Donovan to your comments. Hey, how are you. Good to see some familiar faces. Can you hear me I can't hear anyone. Good. Good to see you. That makes sense. You so we're sharing my mom to I'm not I was really informed too much about this panel discussion, but my mom just told me to jump in and maybe it would be of use for me to share one of my situations. If, if that is appropriate. Right now. All right. Um, so this is back. 2016 2017. So I haven't really been in Amherst like all that much since then I mean, I mean, I've been in and out but I don't really I'm not in Amherst that often but my whole family's there and I visit as much as I can and all that. Um, but yeah this situation happened on New Year's 16 to 17. Um, and yeah I I could I literally have the, the written report that I wrote but never handed in. I was never handed it in because I was like it's there's no point, you know, like back in 2016 2017 I was like, a lot more discouraged about the potential of me being heard in any facet in terms of police. And yeah, I've never really felt comfortable I've had many situations throughout high school. Um, but yeah this specific situation. I was leaving a New Year's party. Um, right before, right before the clock struck 12. And I was trying to make it back to my girlfriend at the Times House. And I was walking on Southeast Street, walking down after I left this party I don't know even where it was. Even evening star drive in South Amherst. And yeah, I guess somebody had called the cops to the party. And I was just literally wrong place wrong time like that's what happened and I was walking past Southeast campus and this is where all happened at Southeast campus. Um, the police officer pulls his car in front of me, like as to as if he was like turning into the Southeast campus to make a U turn or something. And so I waited for him to go in front of me and then I walked around him and then he reversed into me like as if he was going to hit me with his car and so I stopped and he immediately like just jumped out of the car. He just told me put my hands up immediately handcuffed me said he was detaining me. Um, it didn't give me any information. Um, so let's see. Uh, yeah so he and he really ran he ran towards me with his hand on his gun and I said, I was like pretty like it was a time in my life where I felt pretty kind of confident that I wasn't doing anything and so I felt like maybe I had you know I had a chance that it would be, he would just be like oh sorry I thought you were the someone else you know. And so, you know he said, I said, may I ask why. Um, he said if you cooperate I'll tell you why. Um, he said put your hands behind your back cuff me up, and then kind of started like harassing me like. I mean like he was he was searching me but he was like where's your like kind of asked me these questions as if I was. I was who he thought I was and I at this moment like I had no idea like I literally have no idea what's going on I'm just trying to get home. It's for New Year's like, I have no idea what's going on he's like where's your gun where's your gun like over and over and over and over and over again I'm like you're searching me sir like. There's no gun I've never touched the gun like you're you see I'm here and he's eventually told me that they were looking for a black male and a red jacket and I was a black male and not quite a red jacket but some may consider it red is maroon. Um, and yeah he just you know kept asking me these questions over and over and over again that I continued to answer. And while I'm cuffed and now there's kind of a crowd starting to build of the party that had just broken up and all the people are coming out and they see what's going on. They see me in handcuffs, and they're all kind of like sort of gathering. And so I start speaking I'm like, everyone like I never did that they did my life like this is crazy you're you're witnessing like you're like I don't know you're witnessing racial profiling at its finest like I don't know if you are seen it but this is what this is how it happened I was walking home like I'm just like giving everyone all the information that I have, trying to get someone to like come closer to me to be like yo like, can, can we stop this. Um, and then there was one girl there who I remember from fifth grade and so I like kind of isolated her out of everyone I was like you remember like she was a white girl but I was like you remember me. You know I've never done anything like you like go tell somebody was going on right now. And so she did that. She told whoever needed to know, but they were like not having it and they said if I keep talking they're going to arrest me for disorderly conduct. And then I then I shut my mouth, and then they kept asking me questions and so I didn't answer any questions and eventually they put me in the car. And then I'm watching the clock go. Now it's 2017. Now it's 2017 01 and I'm just like all right, like, are they going to bring me to the station are they not and then eventually on my friend showed up and they all thought that I had left or been taken downtown but I was still in the car and so they were looking for one of my friend like I I guess I had said like this friend knows I was in this place at this time. And so I was like, go find this person pretty much like I can call him if you want me to but you can go find him too. And then he shows up right there and I'm like that's him that's him and the cops like that's not him that's not him. That's him like that's him like yelling his name from the inside of the cop car he can't hear me. And then finally the cop like rolls down the window to like double check and I scream like And then the cop is and then Ethan comes over and the cops like searches Ethan Ethan starts crying. And then eventually I got the white voucher and I was good to go. And so they didn't give me you know they took my picture they said you'll be hearing from me, but I never heard from them. And so it was like, yeah it was kind of like nothing happened but it was like, just at the, you know it was like edging on a situation that could have gone very wrong. It was like if they had taken me in it might have gotten worse. But yeah, you know they said sorry for the inconvenience and I went on with my new year but yeah that was that was my most recent story with Amherst police. And so I figured it'd be useful for y'all to hear that. There's probably more details that I'm forgetting I don't feel like reading the whole thing. Yeah, that's okay Donovan we appreciate your share thank you very much. Yeah thanks. And Sean Amara. Could you identify yourself please. Hi my name is Amara Donovan. I have public comment as well. I grew up in Amherst. Hi Donovan. I grew up in Amherst with Donovan actually didn't know he was going to be on this call but just wanted to affirm and acknowledge your story because it's not a just a long standing story. I was going to comment about some of the experiences that I witnessed as a child and a college student in Amherst. And also don't want to use that as a way to re traumatize folks telling their stories so instead I'm going to comment a little bit about the systems that I've been seeing playing out in my upbringing and then what I've seen on this call as well. And just for some context I am a founder now of the Cambridge families of color coalition in Cambridge, and also work for a group called canopy equity coaching where we do racial equity training for corporations and education systems. And so what I've been noticing is this clear connection that folks have been drawing between the school to prison pipeline and policing in Amherst and that's something that I absolutely witnessed in my upbringing in Amherst in terms of tracking kids, kids of color, particularly receiving higher rates of IPs and 504 plans and all of these things that we institutionally know. And seeing that also happening in the police system in Amherst and the way that we think about public safety. And so one of the things that I would encourage this group to look at and to press the city for is around data and in reporting and some of the things that we see directly in the education system are being replicated in the policing system in Amherst in terms of some of the things that have been mentioned tonight that Donovan talked about in terms of reporting. So for example when a child is suspended or expelled that's something that's tracked and reported but when a child sent to the office or asked to get picked early up early from school that's something that's not reported as a suspension or expulsion so that's those are pieces of data that we are missing. And it's the same thing that's happening in the policing right so Donovan's talking about being pulled over being searched. Folks of color and Amherst being stopped and searched and questioned and made to prove themselves and then an arrest not happening. It happened to me multiple times driving with black friends and cars and Amherst and getting pulled over and that those data points not being collected by the town of Amherst. So I think that there's a lot of work to do in collecting data, especially in informal situations and things that may not be reported like an arrest, and then aggregating getting that data aggregated by race. And so just trying the connections between that education system and the policing system in Amherst. And then the other question that I and my friends have had multiple times throughout our upbringings and Amherst is what is the reporting process right and who in the community is there to support a reporting process. And also to give community members expertise and knowledge on how that reporting process works. If somebody wanted to report an officer or an incident. What does that process look like moving forward and providing I think transparency and clarity throughout all of these processes are vitally important. And also having a person, ideally a person of color a person who comes from our community to steward that process and to support folks who wanted to, to do any type of reporting to do that. And some of the things that I see missing and lacking from our public safety, especially for young folks of color. And I understand that this working group in itself, and the representation on the working group is a fantastic first step and this is kind of an attempt at a needs assessment of our community. I would just further encourage this group to do a needs assessment that really prioritizes folks at the margins within the community, knowing that when we build for the margins we build for everybody all the way up. So I would encourage this to be really a first step in the needs assessment of what our community is looking for. I talk a lot about reimagining and dream destinations of what our town could look like and feel like for folks specifically folks on the margins, and then co designing solutions with them so I recognize that this is a first step and that we have a really long way to go. I just want to affirm all that this group is doing and encourage some asset mapping and thinking about where the levers of power lie in our town. And thinking about what those levers are for different people to really push the change that you all are fighting for. So thank you. That's all I have. Thank you Amara very much. And is there anyone else who would like to share and do the community safety working group members have any questions for anyone who has spoken. I have a question. Yes. Um, I don't know if Donovan still in, but the question I have that came to my mind from just hearing you speak is, why didn't you report the situation what stopped you. I don't see Donovan on here anymore. Or are you just saying that as a what stops them. I mean, I think it like, I think it's important to have an understanding when we are able to hear a story from someone. What prevented them from reporting. Um, I did hear him say that he didn't think it mattered. And that worries me that because it reinforces bad behavior. So this is something that I think that definitely needs to be looked at and addressed and maybe even considered as something we're looking for. Um, when someone does have a poor experience. Um, maybe looking into reasons why they might not have reported. Um, so that's it. It is a great point and question. Mr. Wiley. I think this points points out, you know, both, you know, the, the opportunity for people to talk in addition, disadvantage of not being able to interact more freely. And I understand the context of this, but that question that is bowing it. I mean, Miss Walker is asking is one that that begs a conversation. And, you know, to what, you know, you've done, you know, Miss moisten, certainly you said, you know, you've asked us if we have any questions and things like that. And I think that if, if I'm in the proper vein of addressing this in an appropriate way for this committee, I, I would like to think that maybe that's a question. We explore in our general work and keeping with our mission that maybe we can explore that question because I'm sure I'm sure. That there are others who have had similar kinds of experiences of not reporting for reasons that people know, but it would be important to get to the core of that and I don't think this is the appropriate time to do it but it's certainly something that the working group. I would consider in its ongoing work as to how, you know, how to find out ways to explore and open up those avenues for understanding people's contexts in the time that they're they're experiencing them. I don't want to go too further in that but I just think that, you know, the fact that Ms Walker is asking the question points to the fact that it's working group. This information that working group needs to find out. And if we can maybe think about that going forward as a group. How do we begin to explore that in our data collection in our hearing our narratives etc. So I don't want to get too further into that but I wanted to support Ms Walker's question in that way. Thanks for clarification that was miss Bowman. Sorry, I apologize miss Bowman. It's okay. But thank you for raising the question and thanks. And, you know, I think that it raises a great point about the, about things that happen that aren't reported. Right. And I also think that while we live in a city where we're not necessarily dealing with the police who are drawing guns. There is a power structure that is set up that affects our youth. You know, they're the police so they're to some degree already intimidating. Right, just off a general principle. Never mind, including the fact of the color of your skin. Miss Pat. So mine is not a question. But for the last speaker. The issue of special education and tracking of students of color is something I'm very passionate about. I've been here for more than 30 years in this community. So, you know, thank you for raising that. And I hope our community, our CSWG will dive into that more because we're talking about school to pipeline system. That's, that's where it begins, putting so many of our kids into special education. Thank you. Any more additional questions or any other speakers that would like to speak. Mr. Wiley, I don't know if you want to try and open up to the broader community to hear comments. Yes, I would like to open this up to comment. I think we are fulfilling our role to listen very deeply in and seriously about what people are saying and I'm, let me just encourage people to take the opportunity to speak at this forum. Just to say simply that the more information we have, whether it's narrative, whether it's more concrete data, whatever, whatever you're able to tell us through your experiences is going to inform our work and help us make the kinds of recommendations and give us guidance on our conversations forward. So I would miss moisten and like to open this up to the, to the public for comment and I would encourage us as a group to kind of put ourselves on mute at this point and wait to see who comes forward. Yes, Mr. Garrick has a comment. Sean, can we move him over please welcome Mr. Garrick. Can you hear me. Yes. Oh hi. You know I really, you were asking for people to comment I really just wanted to say thank you, and to say that I don't know how many people are are are engaging in this right now but I want to let you know that I think I do represent people that are here to listen we want to hear something that struck me that Mr. Donovan said is you know he kind of said nothing happened and something happened I mean I just feel very badly that he feel like felt like he had to apologize for his experience as opposed to the other way around something happened. He had a negative interaction. I want him to know that we I heard it there. I know there are people here in my neighborhood that are like me that are listening and so thank you for letting us listen that's all I really have to say thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Garrick. Anyone seen or witnessed or experienced. Miss Moisten. Yes. You have a hand. Oh, Mr. Vernon Jones. Since we have time I wonder if we could put up the questions again and we have a question there about how might we provide services in an alternative manner. And I wondered if everybody had a chance to see that question whether there might be anyone who would be willing to to address that. Actually the last two questions. I'm going to check in with Mr. Hannon. Mr. Riley. I just like I want to thank Mr. Vernon Jones for asking it to come back up on the screen and this is the way to keep that up there for a moment long because yes, yeah, because we did have some people join later. I believe then when the questions first came up. And perhaps this will be a will help prompt some thoughts from people. I'm sorry to interrupt but yes certainly Mr. I'm being told at this moment, no, there are no hands raised. Darius. Mr. Cage. Sorry. Yeah, since there was like no conversation going I just wanted to echo what was said before on how Mr. Donovan, like he felt his experience wasn't great enough to share it and wasn't going to wasn't anything going to happen. I just like as the as the CWSG, or see, whatever. I just feel like that's a big part of our work and we should key in on not what the data is showing but like what actually the people are going through and like the experiences that stop them from going and reporting it. I just feel like that's very important in our work, and how we can help the police in our communities connections and how we just see each other. And I just feel like that's a big part, a big part of our work that we have to accomplish. Absolutely. Any other comments or experiences to be shared. I can talk more about this. I'm very passionate about it and have a lot of experience. I grew up in Amherst as a white presenting Latino with a lot of black and brown friends. And so when we're looking at the first question about have you experienced or been made aware of situations in which white people and BIPOC folks were treated differently by the Amherst police department. Yes, I think that's a given. Throughout my experience as a student at the high school. I would notice police watching my friends following my friends around stores, especially when high school would let out and there's masses of kids moving down into the downtown area there's a clear distinction between the way policing is done. When groups of youth of color come together for example, at the pizza place at the end of the high school in the graveyard at the end of the high school and how those kids are surveilled at higher rates than white kids, then white athletes, then white affluent and privileged kids. And then as a college student at UMass, there were many, many, many situations involving drugs and alcohol in which black and brown folks were arrested, were given summons were searched when myself and other white presenting folks were not. You especially saw this with families who had economic privilege as well in terms of who folks parents were and how police treated those people versus kids of color. I witnessed twice in my upbringing and Amherst physical violence from police against black and brown youth and young adults. That was completely unwarranted. And then I think as an as an adult, I witnessed a lot of times racial profiling in cars and getting pulled over, specifically when my black friends were driving versus when I was driving. And then the ways in which interactions with police are handled in terms of the expectations around drugs and alcohol around things like Donovan said the assumption of black and brown folks having guns and weapons that are completely unfounded so I never received any of those accusations growing up presenting as a white person. But the people that I was around did and then the other piece that I will just bring up is as an adult there have been multiple situations that I've been in with other friends who are parents in which police have threatened to call DCF on parents of color who will not allow police to come into their house without a warrant or who will. When police are questioning them and threatening them will threaten to call DCF and have their kids removed so that's another very huge problem in Amherst that when you talk to caregivers of color in Amherst is a common thing. And I think that when we're talking more about why Donovan and others don't report it's a little bit further than nothing will happen it doesn't matter but I think there's also a huge fear of retaliation. A fear of being followed by police when you do speak up. A fear of being put into categories with folks of color who are highly surveilled in Amherst so I think it not only doesn't matter because nothing, there will be no response, but it also might cause more harm to the individual who's reporting so I think that there needs to be an acknowledgement of the harm that has been caused to folks of color in Amherst for generations and that's where you start and then it's really about listening responding and taking action and co designing and with the communities of people in Amherst who are most impacted. And that's really where change starts so some comments since no one else is talking but I would definitely encourage more voice especially voice of folks of color and different abilities are also involved in the conversation. Thank you so much Amar. Does anyone else in the audience have comments. And Miss Loper has her hand raised. Hi, how are you guys. Um, I was just as a, I, my name is Erica and I work here in Amherst and have raised my son here in town. I've grown up here as well. I would like you guys to think about adding the UMass police department into you guys's discussion about changing the police and doing some police reform, because a lot of our youth have had issues on campus for just being on campus and walking around campus and just being a child of color or use of color on UMass campus. I know my child has had a couple run ins. For like no reason. So if you guys could add that or include them in some way I would be really thankful. Thank you. Thank you Miss Loper. Any other comments. Is there follow up from any of the community safety working group members or Miss Pat has her hand up. She didn't use I can't see it. Okay. Miss Pat. So what the Marat said about youth of color being downtown almost just trying to hang out and have good time like getting pizza. From my business owner downtown. I experienced a lot behind my restaurant building where kids are color after school will come and I have my white business people my neighbors call police on the youth for no reason. I've seen our MS police searching the youth for no reason. My reaction at the time was to go outside. Bring the kids, the youth into my restaurant, take them downstairs try to distract and redirect them and I, you know, ask them if they've done their homework, do they want something to drink, just, you know, trying to make them feel not feel too frustrated or scared and just little things to to show them that they didn't do anything wrong and it's not okay for what, you know, they've just experienced. And I saw that many, many, many times, just for hanging around. Even when they come in front of the building. They get police call and then whenever I see police officer and it's always they're coming to check if there is shoplifting, or they just have a crowd of kids of color together but if you were white kids, nothing happens I don't see any white police officers. And I'm talking for more than 10 years when I run the restaurant. So, thank you for raising that. The Mara. Thank you for your comments Ms pot and open back up the floor to anyone in the audience or community safety working group members. Mr Wiley is raising his hand. Oh, I can so that you have to use the, I can't see, because my screen is occupied I'm so sorry Mr Wiley. I do want to say one thing in general to all of us who are on this call. And this is going to come kind of as a hopefully a voice of encouragement and support at the same time to our community. We have very rare opportunities, especially at this time to share our thoughts and concerns and ideas about what needs to happen to make and support change within our community. This is only one avenue, but I do want to offer as a way of being supportive and encouraging to this community is to see how deeply we can think about this and channel our comments in a way that are going to inform the work of this community safety working group. I spoke to the charge earlier, and it's very clear. One of our things is to examine all the data and information that we're getting some information from people here this evening which are, I'm certain speaking for the group is being knowledge and truly appreciated. It's that what we've heard so far is going to be helpful to us doing our work. But I also feel that they are probably, and I'm going to go on a limb here they're probably some folks who are sitting and thinking and absorbing and not sharing. It's going to be critical in a sense but this is an opportunity for us to hear a broad based response from our community. We're going to have another one on Saturday. And there have been some people who have spoken two or three times already. There's an absence of a lot of other voices, I'm sure. I think we, in terms of these questions I think we've, you know, we've talked about number one in a lot of different ways. There are two in a lot of different ways. And, you know, there are some pieces some parts of these questions that if we could incorporate it in our thoughts and experiences and offer them. It only bolsters our work, especially in terms of recommendations for our community on safety service services more about, you know, more, you know, through non threatening alternative public safety services things like that. I think we're very adept at skilled at describing the problem. I think we as a community need to start digging a little deeper and moving towards solutions. And what it would take. And I think with people who have experiences across the board across the continuum with police. There's something to be offered here and I would just encourage people to use this as a time to offer that. If we don't use these opportunities, then it's again only left to a few people to respond for the entirety of our community. And I would just encourage people if you have something to say or something on your mind to please speak it, because I think it's an important piece to hear all the voices. And I would encourage how, you know, whether you think it's too small or too large an issue, but here's an opportunity. And I would hate for us to, you know, any of us to squander an opportunity to speak to our community about such an important topic. So that's what I want to say and I hope it encourages folks who have been sitting and listening to maybe offer something to our group tonight. And, you know, that said, I do want to appreciate all the folks who were on this call, and certainly the thoughtfulness of our community. So I'll stop there, but I wanted to just sort of try to put a little fire under our commentary to see if we can take a little deeper. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. Thank you, Mr. Wiley. So again, we open the floor up to comments from the audience. Please use your raise hand function. Ms. Moisten, if no one is talking right now, I just wanted to kind of follow up from what Mr. Wiley was saying. Some of the speakers already talked about which is, you know, kind of an Amara said it very nicely, which was, can you hear me. I can hear you were starting to break up a little bit. Yeah, I can hear the internet was saying that. But like, how can we kind of co-design? No, we lost. Can you hear me now? I can hear you now. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. So just kind of like how can we work together to kind of co-design some of these solutions and get more input from our community. It's really important for anyone else that is going to be speaking to all kind of focusing on some of that. Amara had talked about that very, you know, at length, and it's really important for us to work together in terms of coming up with some of these solutions. Because, you know, one of the realities that we've heard and I want to thank everyone that has talked about it because I know it takes a lot of courage and it's not easy to do that, especially when it comes to our young people and how some of the speakers have talked about it and being tracked and monitored and feeling that kind of adversarial, you know, environment that comes from the police. And, you know, how can we, as a community, you know, work together to come up with other solutions. So if folks had other input ways, things to share, it would be really helpful. Thank you. So I was just sent a comment from someone, and they were saying that it would be nice if we compensated those who have gotten up here and were so brave and spoke of their experience as we are all aware compensation for the BiBot community sharing their experiences and and asking for, I don't want to say their work but having them help work has been a big topic lately. And so I think that we should all consider that as well, whether it just be like a $5 gift card to Bueno or, or whatever. That's a great idea. Thank you. Yes, yes, yes. Any other comments. And we do have a few folks in the audience and just to reiterate what Mr Wiley has said is that you too as well have either witnessed or seen or have questions or even suggestions on how we can build this trust. So we do suggest or we do ask that you share those with us. Nothing is too small too big. Remember, this is the same place. So there's no judgment here. Yes, I also want to go back to the top to say that we did say that we would certainly encourage and allow BIPOC people to speak first before we open up to the broader community with the intent of listening to everyone. And I'm not sure if we fulfill that goal based on I can't make any assumptions about how people identify certainly. I would also like to make an appeal to BIPOC folks who are on this call who have not spoken and wish to do so at this point. And at the same time, if you're not in that identifiable group. I would also encourage you to speak at this particular time as well. We have scheduled this meeting this this gathering for two hours. We have now with 25 minutes left to go and I don't want to have us come down to the wire and have to try to fit someone in. So there's plenty of time to do that. So if you are a BIPOC person who was on the call and haven't spoken yet, I would encourage you to do so if you feel so inclined. Otherwise, I would say if you are not please. Thank you for your invitation. Please speak and try to help us gather as much information as possible. Thank you, Mr. Wiley. Yeah, so the floor is open to all. And if anyone has any comments, thoughts. Or experiences to share, we would like to hear them. If you have any questions, please help spread the word for Saturday's form as well. It will be from 3pm to 5pm. And the zoom link can be found under news and announcements, as well as the calendar under community safety working group. I also want to remind people that they can fill out the questionnaire. Right. Yes, on the website too. That's another way we're trying to get input. And Ms. Dorothy Pam, Councillor Dorothy Pam has her hand raised. Yes, Councillor Pam. I just want to say that I think that the idea that you put forward of gift cards to people who speak, and perhaps people who fill out questionnaires is a really good one. I know as an academic book publishers are always trying to get us to fill out responses to a book or program or whatever. Or gift card. So it's, it's something that's across the board. And I think it's, it's really a good thing to do. So, I have found this evening's meeting very, very useful. And I really do want to applaud the young man who came forward and told his story. And I think as we all know something very big did happen. And maybe that's why he doesn't come back to Amherst that often. It sounded very traumatic and very upsetting. And I guess we're all glad that he stayed there and didn't run, because it turned out okay, but it really wasn't okay. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Pam. And so as we were coming into the last half hour of our forum, I would like perhaps if people have ideas to share about community engagement and how to engage folks that would be great to share with now as well. If we could brainstorm perhaps. Waste engage our community, particularly the BIPOC community. Yes. In support of the, the invitation year you're putting forward to I'd like to add to that and support that in this way. I heard, as we all did something very early on and it's, it's, it's an ongoing theme of fear. And I think it's about making public comments relative to these topics, fear of reprisal for retaliation for being identified and being more closely surveilled. I'm putting all these words together within the BIPOC BIPOC community in particular. So if anyone has thoughts about how we might bridge that in some way to get the experiences out there. Have us all hear what they are and not feel that we're going to be threatened. If we were to be closely surveilled without fear, what would it take art for our community to begin to sort of break that, that glass ceiling to get to the other side. I'm going to, you know, as an African American man on this committee. To understand, feel and have experiences, some of the same things that people have experienced here without a doubt throughout my adult life. But my question now is not about me, but how do we begin to break that cycle and get into a realm where we can have people understand what's inhibiting the conversation. And, and, and the claims that we have before us and how do we get, how do we get beyond that to a point where we can feel like we can speak openly, and also feel that we can get a response that's genuine and and purposeful and meaningful to the words you want to put on it. That would help build a trust in this community so I'm just supporting what you're saying is moist and I, we really have to think collectively, as someone said earlier maybe that was miss miss Bowman, or, or, or someone about how do we do this. You know, and if you have ideas about how to break that cycle, then these are the kinds of things I think we'd like to hear as a community. Absolutely. And just to further that I, you know, Miss Pat had spoke about the ambassadors or Amherst leaders because we already have an ambassador team it's for the coven. And so we could name them something different but the, the notion of having people who are already community leaders in their own central community area. And compensating them for their work to reach out to folks who already feel comfortable because this is again about being comfortable and not being comfortable having these discussions. And so sometimes it's just best to have someone who's already established within their community to do that, as opposed to come up here so it does take little baby steps to restore. And there's the deepest though the wound is deep so it's, it's, it's, it's hard right so it's open and how do we get that wound to close and that will take a lot of work, but I do agree with Miss Pat. I don't know if anybody in our audience or any of the community safety working group members have any other suggestions. I know as a community participation officer, I really pre coven tried to get out into the public. And join things that are already going on. That's a little hard to do now with coven. So, you know our job is even harder. Right, because we have more barriers than we had before. And does anybody from the group have any suggestions. I've just received a comment for food music dinner for people who attend meetings, people want to come to a space that feels good. So music and art and I do agree that, you know, sometimes if you are from the marginalized community on the lower income side that attending a meeting versus, you know, with the fee of babysitters or, you know, you could have picked up another shift is hard during dinner time so to be able to provide dinner at meetings is is a good suggestion music is all everybody always appreciates music that is one of those things that can bring all groups of people together. So those are some valuable input there. I will say thank you anonymously to the person who sent me that. And does anybody else in the audience or any. 50 working group members have any suggestions further suggestions. And if it's all right is it okay if I take the questions down I'm having a hard time seeing everybody this way or do you still want them to stay up. I think you can take them down as moist and I think people have had a long opportunity to look at them and contemplate them. I think in the spirit of this where we're broadening our, you know, our request for information sharing. We, it's an open palette. And I think we're trying to get as much as we can at this point so thank you for putting those up. Yes. Excuse me. Did we lose miss Pat. I see how I can raise my hand now. I told you. But we did lose miss Pat. So, so we're coming down to the last 10 minutes of our meeting tonight. And I didn't know if anyone else had any last minute input thoughts, opinions about engaging with the community about experiences that they've seen or been through. Okay, so I just, I do want to say thank you for those who did share. And those who gave suggestions. This is not easy, as we all know, which is part of, you know, the response of how many folks that have attended, I will now ask that is it okay. Do you guys want to continue on with the regular meeting as such with the upcoming events or I would suggest we do so. I don't want to say that in advance of any comments certainly from the working group about if there are any other closing comments on this particular community forum that they want to express before we go into upcoming events. So I don't want to preempt that so I would just open it up to the other. I would consider going on to the next, the next point, but I would defer to anyone who wants to have any comments going forward before we do that. Well, I just wanted to thank everyone again who spoke and just how much courage it took for everyone to have spoken during this forum, and we learned a lot of, you know, information that we're going to speak with us as we continue to do this work, but also to remind folks to spread the word about Saturday three to five. And also the questionnaire and hopefully as Miss moisten said we can get some gift cards out there and get people really pumped up to share some information the only way we're going to be able to do it is if we do it. Great. Others on the committee. On the group working group. Thank you miss for error. So I just wanted to go back and have us all take a deep breath and I just also want to make the comments of, you know, it would have been nice to have 50 people in here with all of their experiences but I think that there was real value in the comments that we did here from the group so sometimes it's just not necessarily about the, the number but it's about the value that the people have to offer us and I think that, you know, the gift card would be a great appreciation of, thank you, we value your input we value what you have to say might also encourage others to join. Right as they know, you know, they can be compensated in some way for and know that they're valued and that their input is valued. So I just I also wanted to make that comment. Before we continue back to the regular community safety working group meeting, because what we have heard is deep and heavy I do ask that we all go back to the singing bowl, and take another deep breath once we hear the bell, just kind of clean your energy and clear, so that we can move forward and be ready for Saturday. I just want to also say that Friday evening we will be celebrating the legacy of Reverend Dr Martin Luther King Jr. And there will be yes, as Ms Farera said a second community safety working group community form from 3pm to 5pm. The zoom information is on our website. You may also complete the community safety working group online questionnaire found on the community safety working group webpage at CSWG at Amherst MA.gov. As well as you may always feel free to email the community safety working group at CSWG at Amherst MA.gov or email myself moist and Jay at Amherst MA.gov or contact me by phone 4132593002. And now Paul I hand it over to you. Well done. Thank you to Mr. Hannon. Certainly and to you, Ms. Moisten and for Mr. Bachleman for supporting all the work coming up to our first community forum. I cannot echo strongly enough the message Ms. Moisten sent forward about spreading the word about the Saturday forum. And I would also encourage you if you came to this one and didn't feel compelled to share anything or maybe needed some more time to think to reappear on Saturday. Perhaps there's some additional thinking maybe you were informed by something was said here or encouraged to share your your opinions so certainly I would encourage you all to do that before going on to the and I will we'll go to the rest of our meeting agenda but I want to go to the rest of our meeting agenda. So I would encourage you to follow up on the public forum here. To let people know more specifically that each one of us on this committee on this working group has been working entirely not just that from meeting, you know, at each meeting. But from Ms. Moisten across the board, each one of us to ask questions to challenge each other with our thinking to receive our information. And I am privileged to work with such a group of folks knowing that they are holding your best interest at heart. So I just want to say that on their behalf. They're they're just a smart intelligent challenging group you couldn't you couldn't do better. And so I want to thank them all publicly and encourage you to support them as well by connecting to the website and giving us feedback that Ms. Moisten spoke about. So that said, Ms. Moisten, I'd like to just go on with the agenda. Sure, yes. Certainly. And the obvious upcoming event is our next forum on Saturday. Are there any upcoming events, either related to this work or in our Amherst community, that anyone are in our working group would like to talk about or present to folks who are in attendance right now. I will just say that the Human Rights Commission is celebrating the legacy of Dr. Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. on Friday from 5 30 to 6 30. The zoom information is on the website under news and announcements and on the calendar as well. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I waited for you to say that. My plug. And thank you for promoting that for our community. This is an annual event in our community that has. Great meaning for all of us in our community. So thank you Ms. Moisten for promoting that. And thank you to the people who are promoting. And, and, and organizing. That that activity. I just want to just let people know that our next meeting is actually the community forum on Saturday. From 3 to 5 p.m. We look forward to you being there. There's information on our website about that. We certainly have flyers out. That were. Those flyers were created and certainly advanced by. Ms. Owen. Who is the vice chair of this committee. Want to thank her for her work on that. Thank you. And all of us support this effort. So the more you can do for us, the more we can do for you. So hopefully we'll, we'll get to that point. Are there any other. Topics. That I did not receive in a reasonable amount of time in anticipation. Of this meeting. That anyone would like to. Mention on the working group at this point, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank you. For providing $5 gift cards to anyone who spoke at the forums. And we don't. I think we don't actually have our own budget, but the town manager has indicated that we might be able to access the racial equity money. That's available in the town. Do we. Is it appropriate to make a motion that we recommend such cards to the town manager that such cards be provided. To the town manager? Any discussion of that motion. I just, I actually have some to say about that. I think. Excuse me. I think we should. I think it should be. $10. Because I think about like. If we're giving them a gift certificate to Bueno. For them to get a burrito and a drink, it's going to be about $10. So I think that. It's going to be about $10. If we're giving them a gift certificate, they can get a slice of pizza, but they couldn't even get a drink to go with it. So I think we should think about like. Depending on how we're doing the gift certificate. So if we're just giving them like. Money in hand or what, how wherever we're doing it, I think we should just make sure we take that into consideration. And they have a comments to the, the, the motion forwarded by Mr. Vernon Jones before I come back to him. Miss. You're muted. You can't hear you. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay. So before the motion, I do want to, I do have a comment from business perspective. You know, how do we. Value somebody's time. While I appreciate the suggestion for five or $10. I'm not comfortable with that amount. I would like to suggest it would be. A $25 gift card. For people who. Brave to come out and testify. Because it's not an easy thing for people to do. Thank you, Miss Matt. Other comments from, from the working group. I just want to add that counselor. Pam has her hand raised as well. Oh, I'm sorry. I did we. Ooh, I lost some of that visual there. Go ahead. I don't know. Oh, there she is. Yep. Oh, I see her now. Yeah. I didn't realize I'd raised my hand, but I agree with the $25. It's. It's got to be worth something. And it's quite possibly possible that some of the local merchants. Could be involved in this to reduce the cost of the committee. Because it is something that is very important to the whole town. It is. And it'll bring bring business into their business. So it's worth the investment. Yeah. Thank you. I like the idea of involving businesses. So this is, this is the discussion. The is in response to. Mr. Vernon Jones is motion and. Oh. If my second and me that we're having a discussion about this. We're going to come back. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, Paul, you actually made the motion. Yeah, I did. Actually. I think it, it goes to you as the mover. I, I. I asked for certainly and, and heard from our, our working group plus one of our community members. And if, if we are now at a point where, you know, $25 for those who spoke. About this particular event. I also want to ask if this is going to be something that we're going to be offering at the next community forum. Also in other community forums going forward. Yes. I think it sets the bar. So anybody who we. Yes. Who gives us their input, whether it be through email or through. The survey or a forum would need to be compensated at that same amount because you can't change that amount. I just want to be clear with folks about. That particular standard being set going forward. No, no objection to it certainly, but to understand that. You know what we're setting as the standard. Other comments, Mr. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, I'm, I'm very comfortable with the $25 for anyone who comes forward and speaks at a forum. I, I don't support that much for people who fill out the survey and we, we may have, we could have several hundred people fill out the survey and I don't think that's how we want to spend their, our racial equity money because we're, they won't all be, they won't all be BIPOC. I don't, I don't support that. I don't support that. I don't support that. I don't support that. I don't support that going out the forums and all. But I'm very comfortable with doing it for people who come forward to speak at the, at the forum. What about $10 for, or $5 for people who fill out. The. The. The other thing is often. I looked at the survey or the questionnaire and there's quite a lot of information about the survey. So. This pet. I mean, the project we're doing is very important. If it's important to the town of our mess, I don't think $25, whoever respond is too much. I mean, we pay high taxes in this town. We're very. A town of our mess is where we sourced. So I am okay. But we need resources to get this work done. So to propose $25, whether you're. Whether people want to testify publicly or through online, or whatever, our goal is to get as much input. As we can. And I think we need resources to get this work done. That's where I'm coming from. Mhm. I like that. Yeah. And in addition to that, Ms. moison, I, I. You know, clearly an anonymous comment. You know, cannot be responded to. But, uh, and, and in terms of the money. Part of it doesn't concern me. So the integrity of the process. I want to be sure that if people are spending their time, we had. I can't remember how many people on this. This call tonight who spent their time here. Uh, there, there are two hours with us to listen and participate. And, uh, in particular, there were a number of BIPOC people who spoke. And the issue about. Um, offering people an honorarium, if you will, for participating. Which was, I think generated from the fact that it's difficult for people, especially BIPOC folks in many cases. To participate in these kinds of. Events. So how can we make it more, more welcoming? How can we make it more supportive? How can we do that? So. I want to just raise a question to, to, um, folks too. I don't want to encourage a process that just says, if you respond sort of. Kind of willy nilly. This thing. You're going to get $25. And I hate to say it that way, but I'm a little skeptical about that in some respects. However, if there are people like the folks tonight who were spending time speaking. You know, very fervently about things and very deeply about things. And who made a sacrifice to be here. They're the ones that needed $25. Yeah. So I don't know how we can figure out a way to. I don't want to parse this out in such a discreet way. But I want to be, I don't want to be haphazard with it. I wanted to have meaning for people and have, you know, I think that the value that the BIPOC community has when they come to speak, um, would be worth that $25, if not more in theory, right? But so perhaps for people who complete the survey, if they leave contact information, we can put them in a raffle for a $50 gift card, or we can find some other solution to, to find a way for that, right? Because you, you have to kind of somehow balance it to some other way. So, I agree. And I think the bottom line, excuse me, Mr. Vernon Jones. I think the bottom line is to encourage participation. Let me just say that and just stop. Mr. Vernon Jones. I just wanted to say, I like Jennifer's suggestion. That works for me. Other comments. Ms. Pat. So actually, um, maybe some people may not want to accept the gift card. And, um, I'm almost feeling that this discussion is going, you know, when it comes to BIPOC community, we start nickel and diming stuff. So if anyone that responds, regardless how, they should be compensated. I'm not trying to say, if you do questionnaire, you get $5 gift card. If you testify publicly, you get 25. I'm not comfortable with that. I'm not. Other comments. I'd like to bring this to a motion soon. In some fashion other comments from members of the. I think that we might need a little more time to follow up when we have just our next regular meeting, not through the forum. So I think everybody's into some degrees and pretty much agreement that the people who speak will receive. I think it's how we handle other folks and we should all kind of have our, uh, we should all be brainstorming about a way to find some compensation, but you know, it could, you could equal them out or you, you could do a raffle or we just, you know, I don't want us, it's, you know, now seven 38. And I also, um, I don't want us to make a decision now. So quickly. I agree. I certainly don't either. I certainly don't either. And I want to support what Tony Baku, um, stated we don't want to nickel and dime this to death. I mean, it could become an extra activity. So, you know, Ms. I think it's appropriate for us to, um, as, as a group to send these thoughts to you. Yes. Our thoughts and suggestions. I would say our, our, our, I would, I put it in this way. Uh, your, your rationale for suggesting what you're saying, what you're, what you're recommending. And suggestion on how to do it. Um, I'm not, I'm not sure what you're saying, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure what you're suggesting. I'm not going to miss Moist and, um, in advance of our, what will be whatever next meeting, we'll do our business. It will certainly not be on Saturday. But in the meantime, we could do that. If that's acceptable to the group. I want to hear everyone's voices on this. We all good? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I want that tomorrow morning at 830. We got a busy week ahead of us. This is a three meeting week for us in our community. So I appreciate all the work we've done. So again, our next meeting, are we all good with this particular point? Yes. Okay. Our, our next meeting is certainly our, our community forum on Saturday from three to five. We hope people will certainly attend. And there's, I think the next, the topic that the next, the topic we talked about was actually the, the whole idea of the gift certificate. But, um, Uh, I think we can move on if we're for all, as I say, the hearts and minds are, are settled and good at this point. To adjournment. I move. Miss Pat, you moved. Yes. Seconded. Seconded by Miss Ferrerra. If you, if you all would just raise your hand so I can see you and we can record that. Mr. Vernon Jones, Miss Owen. Can't see some of you, but. Alicia Darius or Miss. There you go. Mr. Darius and Tashina. I'll have their hands raised. Good. I just wanted to see people anyway. I didn't have to do that. But. Anyway, thank you all for your work. And, um, Thank you. We will be in session again on Saturday at three from three to five. Thank you everyone. Have a good night. Thank you. Thank you. Miss Moisten. Thank you, Sean. Jennifer. Thank you for facilitating so beautifully. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, I'm honored. Thank you. Good job. Mr. Hannon as well. Thank you. Good night.