 And welcome to another edition of Hawaii in Uniform. I'm your host Calvin Griffin. For those of you who may have seen the program before, you know that basically what we talk about on this program is what's happening with the military, the veterans, and the community and how it affects the whore here in Hawaii anyhow. I've met a lot of very special people, but today I have a very special guest that has a story that's very interesting, very compelling, and does have a conscious, not only about the human spirit, surviving, but also some of the elements of the international intrigue also. But the gentleman I want to introduce you to is Mr. Jim Chang Chen. And former military, he did two tours, he did two enlistments. He was originally from Taiwan, came in 1976, and joined the U.S. military in 1977. And by now, Tim, I've just introduced you to Mr. Chang. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us on the program. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. My greatest honor to be here today. Right. I'll tell you, tell us a little bit about yourself. I know you came from Taiwan. Yes. And what year was it, 1976? Yes, I was coming to Hawaii, through American Samoa, South Pacific. To meet with my elder brother at the time he was there, and then he invited me to come over to the island. But during the first year of his stay, I happened to be a Vietnam War hero, with a family uncle named Gone, although he passed away many years ago after he put me in the Army. He was the hero that came to tap in my door when I was there. And he was the one that processed my paperwork that got me through the examiner from Hawaii to take the test and all the paperwork, the whole package. And finally, he put me in the Army. So I was in Honolulu, 1977, February 14, I believe, to sign my official, the first contract to enter in the Army. When did you take basic training? Basic training, what? It was the fall, next, Kentucky, February. It was a beautiful winter. I have never seen snow in my life, but because of the snow, it's too cold for me. A person like from Taiwan, from Asian region, we never see the snow, and my finger cannot move, my leg cannot move. But I traveled and made it through and graduated from the basic training in the fall, next, Kentucky. It was very amazing. And my real thoughts on everybody liked me. I was very happy. Under your award several times, there were certain things in your first deployment. You went to Korea first, or? Well, I was the first assignment. I choose to have the European assignment, Germany, NATO command. Right when, this September, I believe, when we got there, through Georgia, the airport, the Air Force, about to leave command, over the midnight, close to the ocean, then Atlantic Ocean, then, ooh, there. The next day, a very cold September in West Germany at the time, and there was lots of terrorism going on during the city of Frankfurt, Germany. And we were told not to be running around, you know, stay in the compound, stay safe. But I was there for a couple of years, and I completed the assignment. Later, I was awarded to some of the military, the Arkham I believe, based on my military performance. They had a parachute badge also that you had? That was later. Later, after I came back from Korea, the second overseas command, the second infantry, the second infantry division, very close to DMZ, the military zone. Anyway, I came back and got an award, and then later I was assigned to Fort Lewis, Washington, and I was picked up and recruited by the Worldwide Recruitment, the Pentagon. One was a very special, unique element in Virginia, and then they come and selected me and brought me into the desert environment already, what they called the Training Evaluation Program. And I started out with hundreds of people, but to the end, I was very lucky to be selected. I was one of the eighth survivors. So then ever since I switched in transfer to Washington, and then they put me in a volunteer form, Warrington, Virginia, that's where I was, observed that none of us ever wear the military uniform ever since. Everybody had a long hair, and we don't need to get into the detail, but that was how I come to Washington. Right, okay. We were participating in some, as we would say, classified operations that, of course, you have the liberty to speak about right now, but apparently they've seen a lot of potential within you and your talents as far as in the military environment, I guess. Yes, I learned a lot, you know, because of the M.I. and then the environment allowed me to have access to see lots of secrecy stuff. Really, that was a great learning process, and then really opened up my eyes to learn something new. Wow, that's another world. And I'm so proud to be one of the elements. But after a while, then, you know, I had to move on. So I went back to the, after 1986, then I decided to separate from the active duty at the time I was in the state of Maryland. I was there. I went up there and there for all together from and back about 15 years in the Washington area, experiencing already the fantastic, the cold winter, observed that I attempted to make a couple trips back to Taiwan to visit my old Asian parents. So, I'm sorry. We traveled around the United States a lot. You were in the country about 15 years or so, or before you? I was in and out because of, just for the military assignment, I started my journey as a military service member with the Germany to come back and then reassignment in states. And then I went back to Korea for volunteer visits, the hardship tour, second infantry division. And then I came back to the states and they would become one of the MI members in Washington, D.C. So after that, while, you know, during my civilian life, yes, I did a lot about a travel across the country in and out, especially during my time with my parents in Taiwan, why I decided to go out there because after the second tour, you know, that was supposed to, I got out in 1986, but then in the civilian life, I thought that was important for me as a military man. I married to the beautiful Chinese model in the Washington, D.C. area. So I decided, well, I took up several of the civilian jobs, but that was not enough. Up to the discussion with my wife, I decided to go back to the Army again to try to maybe retire 20 years, original print, but didn't make it. I went up, got in the hardship tour assignment back to Korea again, involuntarily, and then happened to be during the crisis, the country had a war with the pushing golf. And then during that time, I was assigned to Second Infantry Division, the Light Infantry Mechanized Battalion. The unit was called to go to the battlefield, but before even we take off, suddenly we see the beautiful photo on the TV, the Southern Hussein people surrender, line up, wow, beautiful, awesome image in the desert, surrender to America. So then the war ended, so I did not have to go. I sent a clear message, quick message to AT&T, my wife informed her, well, I guess the God just gave me up from the battle, and even I'm ready to go, but this is how it happened. She said, well, I'm glad it's over and we won the war, so you're instantly to become an instant hero, but I'm not. Well, the reason, as far as with your military background and your personal history, as far as your ethics, the way you handle yourself before you got into military, but also with your military services, that did that have any impact on how you were able to survive this, again, a difficult journey and as you say, amazing escape? I want to segue into that, because like I say, it's important, of course, that we acknowledge your military career and what you've done there also, but could you set it up briefly as far as what happened where you had this experience in Vietnam, how you were in captivity, and this was after the war you weren't a prisoner of war, but you were a prisoner, like say, in your penal system for nine years and 25 days, right? Right. Okay, if you can tell us a little bit about that. Yes, okay. My journey, actually, when I, the first trip, when I visited the Hanoi, I mean the Saigon, used to be Saigon, then I became a whole different city after the North Vietnam took over, way back. My initial visit was in 2000, when President Clinton and his lady and their total troops was there. That was, it must be the November, the December period, back to 2000. I was there to help in New York and set up their offices. I spent all together 45 days there and then during the rainbow period they have a technician and then what happened, I went back there and then unfortunately, the second trip, 2001, I got arrested right away after the second day. So ever since, I was in their prison system and then I have encountered a very, very difficult life the entire time. Yes. Just one question, point of clarification. Yes. The company you work with is a telecommunications company based out of New York and New Jersey operating out of there. Yes. To Vietnam. Yes, exactly. What happened before then, I was working as a civilian after I got out of the army the second time. So I thought it was a good idea to move my wife relocate me and her to the warmer place, the Nevada. It happened to be not just warm, very hot place to avoid the heavy snow. So then I was working for the NOS communication under the older highway. Maybe they're still there, still exist. NOS communication. Got to know one of our vice president. They have at least three vice president. This person from St. Kitt, I believe, a Caribbean country. Anyway, he introduced me to New York. A lot of our communication officers are the big guy. One of them happened to be the person that owned FCC license, Federal Communication Commission. So they, after the full partnership discussed and talked it over, decided to have somebody like me and I was a chosen one because they got to know me and my military background may be quite capable to their view. So I can speak Mandarin Chinese, knowing that there are lots of Chinese speakers in Vietnam may be helpful. So I was a chosen one to put in Vietnam to help them setting up their offices. But then the second trip of the disaster, I went and then because of the technical failure, although I'm not a technician or anything, I don't know nothing about the satellite. So they already hired the worker, sending engine technician on the ground in Saigon waiting for me. Every day I received the message he needed to come in Mr. Chen and also New York the direct contact Mr. Michael Eskenazi, we believe he's a Russian Jew. He said, you must go because you help set it up and this technician cannot speak the local language. He cannot speak Chinese, only English, and you know the location. So you'd be the one to go to help him. So I said, well, at this point I cannot just abandon everybody even though I already feel degraded about the uncomfortable feeling. So I went and then next day I was arrested. Apparently later on I found out that was already set up. The technician already compromised with Gong An which meant the security opposite local authority to arrest me. Right. And then later they decided to let him go and then put me in jail for him instead. So when you had, okay, you went there the first time and basically you were there to facilitate setting up a facility and you weren't part of the technical part or anything else. There was someone else that was in place and the second time you said you had a bad feeling before you went back in the country. Exactly. The first time I went basically looking for three locations in the whole Jimin City as long as the building in the window can see each other or there are telecom purposes you maybe relay the signal the telecom signal by using the microwave or one building to the other that was the concept the principle I believe. So I already said that Michael, he himself went through a big struggle to bring lots of heavy cable through the whole Jimin the airport. He thought he was not going to get out of the airport at all. He kept on screaming when I was there waiting outside the airport having got through it and he put all together I don't know nothing to help him but only the physical lifted but second trip what happened was because of they running into the technical problem so they already send the technician ahead of me to go down there try to fix it apparently failed again so they decided to help me go down there then maybe help him anyway. Taylor I don't want to make we don't miss anything so we're going to take a short break when we come back when we continue the story and again again difficult journey an amazing escape and please stay tuned and we'll be back here on Hawaii Uniform with Mr. Chen. Thank you. Aloha and Mabuhay. My name is Amy or Tega Anderson inviting you to join us every Tuesday here on Pinoy Power Hawaii with Think Tech Hawaii we come to your home at 12 noon every Tuesday we invite you to listen watch for our mission of empowerment we aim to enrich and lighten educate entertain and we hope to empower again Maraming Salamat po Mabuhay and Aloha Aloha I'm Dave Stevens host of the Cyber Underground this is where we discuss everything that relates to computers that's just kind of mind so come join us every week here on thinktechawaii.com 1pm on Friday Afternoons and then you can go see all our episodes on YouTube just look up the Cyber Underground on YouTube all our shows will show up and please follow us we're always giving you current relevant information to protect you keeping you safe Aloha Okay you're back with Hawaii Uniform again I'm your host Calvin Griffin and right now as I mentioned prior to the break we have Dr. Chen who is the author of a book called Difficult Journey Amazing Escape and we'd like to continue so at this point right now you have you're back on the second time to Korea I mean to Vietnam right and then like I said that's when everything started going south as far as when you were arrested or you're detained by the government if you continue with that please the setup during the evening when the technician invited me into the Indian he's an Indian from India to the Indian restaurant I said oh yeah okay good idea so it went after we sit for only five minutes shoot duration boom here come two minivan rushing all and pulling like 16 uniform police and the only thing they say stand up no talk stand up no talk I said oh my god my instinct was a setup so then we waited for a while and suddenly the escort a wonderful lady came in to talk to me identified that lady right away she was one of the building the general manager rented the office for me the police the Gong An Gong An the police asked her is this the Mr. Chen that rented office from you she said yes that's a mini van I was on one van and the technician on the other but from that point on I never see him until a certain point a few months later anyway they escort me to they want me to help him find out where is your office location where are they show me so I tell them first one would be the Saigon the the what is the the Wingway there is the big avenue linked to the city hall first office on the 10th floor the San Hua Tower as my story mentioned then they check everything and then they found the office and then there's a big table behind the table there's a binder and then the binder behind the binder oh my god they discover lots of heavy type of telecom communication equipment the micro install from there we moved to a second point the hotel where they discover the terrace and the sixth floor that's where a micro install the micro wave and I mean the the dish the dish the patient upward the sky the receiving the frequency from the satellite you know into the system right just point of clarification with the the telecommunications the reason why the telecommunications is because this was a business venture to go ahead and be able for the Vietnamese who were in the United States or around the country to get and receive messages from their family members in country ideally that was correct it was you know New York the other telecom giants or they know what benefit them the most and this is one of the the comparing project that they always want to do so what happened at that time I see the market value one minute for the quarter you might have to pay more than one dollar for a minute's call linking from America anywhere from America to the satellite our system to Ho Chi Minh City from there to anywhere their family is and entire Vietnam so it's very variable that is the whole concept the whole focus to bypass in the local authority yeah okay that's where limited on time I want to really talk to the really important part I know that you were kept in solitary confinement for a number of months before you were had access to the councillor or any type of outside support after been tried been sentenced they transferred all the way through the Borlach Central Distributing Center from there we got our specific assignment into the permanent station which is Ham Deng entire the South of Vietnam this Ham Deng had consisted of at least seven prison camps and we are the K-4 the prison number four that's where all the foreigner is the team four stays in it only for men and women from a foreign country that's where I was and it started started struggling trying to get attention about US consulate using them hurry up and come see me because I was among the very poor foreign prisoner who never and I was there maybe dying so I finally got in touch with the US consulate get their attention to one of a secret phone call outside the compound during my time for the to see the dentist so I call them they finally came visiting me and then ever since I have a little bit of support which mean like every three months they will come over like $150 divided by three so each month I have like $50 to survive all the way in the prison yeah okay so while you were kept under these conditions the American consulate they were in brief contact with you or what kind of with any support it all be you being an American citizen and first I think as far as clarification what charge did the Vietnamese government get you on and how what were the years that you were sentenced to right we should look the narrative in government no operating business without a license okay I said well it could be very light appear more fine and go home but it's not later decided to change the narrative after they let the technician go home set the bribe I don't know how many thousand they give to exchange their freedom and instead they put me in the prison and then giving 13 year sentence owned by the state government and at that time there's no a private license yet not open to the public so with that they can can did the concept they gave me comfortably 13 year sentence and then observed that I served under good behavior I actually served in the prison term 8, 9 years and 25 days finally I was set free but it's not completely free and after that a while after the US can pick me up also I was in prison back to Ho Chi Minh City that's when another difficult journey began in Ho Chi Minh City when you arrested your wife was with you in country at the time anyhow she was at some point allowed to leave the country the ignition I'd like to say that work with you that had all the expertise in the telecommunication set up anyhow he was released back he was able to leave the country so the time that you spent in the prison camp anyhow I know it was it gets unimaginable I would like to say I read your book and it's really extraordinary what you went through and what are some of the just some of the the incidents that happened like say they really shaped you because for a lesser individual who wasn't really dedicated had strong mind it seemed like they wouldn't have lasted in that type of environment what are some of the things that you'd like to share with our the really challenging life was during the permanent station of Hamdung Hamdung prison significantly because about after we pulled into the camp and then I got to know the team officer then one week later you issue a full set of uniform ever since we've been forced to go out to our working location march into the field and escort it behind in the prison uniform like a military everybody known to have a strong head because of over there we have about six months of extensive of the rainy season and anyway everybody's soaking wet but regardless the weather condition you must go and they walking back and forth in the rain and also working in the rain but they're giving me a big piece of land to cultivate and grow some vegetables I'm the I'm the very poor prison but what most significant another thing I'd like to mention was even I was very poor but my mind's very clear and then what the treatment that we're receiving given the prison term like the food that we have the rice the soup and then they claim that they gave us so much of the food the pork the meat and all that it's bologna it's not real so I decided to organize the foreigner telling them don't go to work stay in today we demand to have a meeting with the principal and then we need to get a couple of things clear how can we let it go on like this they continue forcing us to work in the rain and then our radius now even giving us a piece of rain coat and asking all of us the foreigner to perform we've been treated like worse than the slavery we'll say under these conditions you were organized or you actually you instigated and set up this protest knowing under those conditions as far as it's known as you know it's very tough conditions the possibility that you could have been executed for even instigating something like this at all yes true I already thought about that but besides nevertheless I've come to my mind because I'm the military background and even though I was here before in prison but my mind never changed you know the DNA is different and then nobody is going to stop me at that moment because if I don't talk we are just going to get out there and talk at least we try to change for better to benefit everybody or the prisoner we are all the victims we are in the same boat that is fine again we really apologize we're down to the the wire on this thing anyhow but as far as like so with the information that you had while you were in prison or in country the time you spent there you were able to gain information concerning like say information about POWs and EMA issue I know I really apologize for this like say that we don't have more time and I'd like to do a follow up but as far as how can they get your book and yes please because knowing that we are running out of time of those EMA POW very key focus please visit amazon.com and search for my book title typical journey amazing escape for more detail thank you for bringing here today Aloha Mr. Chen thanks a lot like say it's really amazing what you've been through and what you're doing like say as far as further and after you got out of the country but again we're down to the wire wanted to do a follow up on this and I encourage everybody to do the same thing now but thank you for your time thank you for your service and thank you for tuning in and God bless and until that time thank you bye