 Welcome to the session on labs and incubators for the rest of us. I'm really excited to be on this panel with my fellow panellists here. We have the director of New Inc in New York, Julia. We have Seb Chan who you probably just heard speak and he's going to talk some more because he loves to chat. So we're back with me and Tui who is actually heading up the new Mahooke lab here at Te Papa. So we're just going to have a bit of an introduction from each of them about their lab and what they've been doing and then we're going to move into sort of a conversation session and then we'll leave some time for questions at the end. So I'm going to actually hand over to Seb. Do you want me to do your slides? No, it's alright. Do you want to do your slides? Is it going to work? So I think I've got a video first, don't I? Yeah, let's see how this goes. So yeah, that's the museum part which is interesting because we're in the centre of Melbourne and in fact I guess I should rewind a bit and I guess Paula and I were talking initially about maybe I wouldn't just focus on this which is the museum I'm at now but also this sort of sense of labs also being things that don't actually exist like at Cooper Hewitt. So we might get to that bit later on in the discussion. So that's why I'm now big museum in the centre of Melbourne as I said in the previous talk, national museum of all of these things. So why would it set up a co-working space? This is why when our new CEO came in the mission slightly tweaked and the mission now is about building a connection with the sector we represent and draw materials from and work with as well as the public. So the public has sort of, there's the professional public which isn't researchers and scholars but actually makers and doers, filmmakers, game makers, those sorts of people. So this is ACMEX and Petrina too, who's our CEO. A bold and co-working space that sits alongside the staff of the Australian Centre for the Moving Image. When you join ACMEX, you're going to be part of a community from filmmakers to games developers to app developers to people working with virtual reality. It's about having a daily conversation with a group of industries whose work we celebrate at its end. We want to be part of the journey. We're going to run an industry events programme so that experts from right across these industries will talk about things that they've learnt, ways of working, opportunities and challenges. Most importantly, ACMEX is about making connections between ideas and industry and building community that really is going to support the work of the crowd of industries in Australia. So we've been open for about seven months now and most of our tenants are now on six months plus leases. We have two of the major universities in Melbourne also have desks there, which they're post-grads and some academics use. And what's interesting about our space is that it is not walled off from the rest of the museum staff. In moving to the new offices that we have that houses this space, there are only three staff with rooms. Everybody else is in the open to plan space. So the people with the offices, of course, the CEO, Katrina, the CFO and the HR manager. Everybody else works alongside the co-workers which is really about that conversation piece. So a bunch of companies, artist-run initiatives and artists. We have several VR companies based in there. We have a YouTube multi-channel network. Got Valliarm who brings in YouTube celebrities to use the meeting rooms and stuff every now and again. There's lots of stuff going on. We all share a big communal kitchen. It's that kind of thing. So it's actually about bringing the museum staff and makers and creators closer together. And I think that's perhaps the differentiator is that we are actually very physically co-located at the start. But that's probably enough for me, right? Yeah, we'll be in a long time. Okay, mine was going to be a little bit longer. So I'm Tori, I'm the General Manager of Mahookey to Puppets Innovation Hub. So in the next three or four minutes I just want to give you a quick overview of what Mahookey is. This is the movie trailer version. To get the full version you've got to sign up for the movie. So it all starts with, actually, Mahookey is an innovation program and what is innovation, it's about actually trying new things. But Mahookey is two core parts to it. There is the Accelerator Program, and I'm going to talk a little bit in detail about that, which is where Mahookey or to Puppet is working in partnerships with businesses. The second part, which is just as important is the Outreach Program, which is a series of other activities like the Accelerator Program to help bring innovation, ideas and perspectives of people into Te Papa. So we set up the very first Accelerator Program started in August with 10 teams. We set up, put out a list of 12 challenges out to the community and asked them to come up with ideas or solutions for those. So we went out to businesses and teams and what we'd asked them to do is actually we were interested in both experience and enterprise solutions. So solutions that are going to help us enrich the stories that we tell and also ideas that are going to help us run our businesses better. We're part of a growing movement, so a trend amongst museums and other culture institutions to partner with industry businesses, with artists or with entrepreneurs in order to fast-track innovation to strengthen what we do. And while there are lots of different types of innovation labs or whatnot around, Mahuki is a particular type, which is we're taking quite a commercial business approach. In terms of the basics, we will run one Programme a year. As I said, the first Programme kicked off in August and the teams are downstairs and they'll finish up in December. And during that time there, I guess that's a short duration co-working model. They're based onsite with Te Papa staff, not immediately adjacent like ACMI is your one, but they're still based onsite and get interacted with Te Papa staff. We provide funding to the teams of $20,000 in order for them to participate. That's really important because a number of teams just wouldn't be able to participate and then we'd get one certain type of demographic that could, and we want this to be as diverse as possible. We are taking equity in the businesses of 6%. So hopefully some of these businesses go on to achieve great things and we will have, we are invested in their success and that also could return some sort of reward back to Te Papa in the future. And as I said before, it's really important that we had a diversity of teams. So six of the 10 teams have a female co-founder and three of the teams are, CEOs are female. We have a Māori team. We have teams that we can work in. There's six different languages. Pigeon, Russian, French, Māori, Chinese. We have a Chinese international student team as well. I think that my slides are going all over the place. Sorry about that. So in terms of the teams that we took in, these are the areas that they're working in, analytics, wave finding, VR, gaming, learning, innovation. A quick shout out for you guys is that one of our teams dot dot is setting up a trial down in Story Place on level 2. Right now, if you would like to go down after this and experience their VR solution, you can have a go. And here they are. And I had two of the teams are in the room at the moment. Curio and Open Window. So the second part of the mohiki is the outreach. There's two parts to this. What is working with tertiary institutions, and the second part is working with the general start-up community. So we have, alongside setting up and running the first mohiki program, being really active at working with tertiary institutions, mainly in Wellington, but also throughout New Zealand. And this is really important and critical to us. It's been a lot of work. But the advantage of this is that we've been working with student teams also issuing out our challenges, also getting their fresh ideas and perspectives into the way innovation that the public could deploy. These are just some of the ones that we have already completed, and we have another six underway. And then the second part of that is just general outreach. So as I said, the hub will only run once a year. It runs in the second half of the year, but when the hub is not operating we have a venue space downstairs and we're already planning for smaller mini mohiki innovation programs. And the ones we have in the works at the moment, one is a short duration workshop with the Pacific Business Trust, working with Pacifica businesses to help tell richer stories and solutions around our Pacific collection. We're also looking at a partnership with the local VR and AR Association. By the numbers, so 37 entrepreneurs, 10 teams, 26 tertiary interns alongside the paid interns that we have on board. I won't read all of those out, but what they speak about is that the mohiki is impacting a much greater ecosystem than just the teams that come into the program and that's also really important. And this, some of you will know, is connected worlds at New York Call of Science, and I put through this up to demonstrate this. This is all about the ecosystem and growing, you know, exponentially out, the impact. So all of those people that mohiki program is also touching on are also helping to understand the sector's needs and challenges. They are getting actively involved and we're increasing their understanding. So why an innovation accelerator? Firstly, the first one is pretty obvious, but we want to innovate. We want to try new things and this is one of a number of models we could have employed, but for us it's been a really good model. It's a way of bringing in fresh external perspectives for actually what is a pretty reasonable investment to help us generate new ideas. Remain relevant in an increasingly digital world. So actually the speed of change is happening so quickly. It's really important that from the public's point of view that we were staying abreast of ideas and partnering with, through the accelerator program as a way that we can do this is to stay at the leading edge say that double, but you know what I'm saying, much more quicker. Much more quicker. Unleash a national asset. So one of the things also is taking a fresh look at Tupapa. We are New Zealand's National Museum and actually alongside all of the other things that we do, we also have the opportunity to contribute to our nation's prosperity. Just that small goal. So actually Tupapa has an international brand. We have fantastic international connections and pathways to market. So actually it's another way of looking at the museum to actually unleash those in support of our nations. Vibrant digital dimension to the renewal program as you know Tupapa is about to go through the most dramatic changes over that since its inception over the next five years every permanent exhibition will be switched out. And then this last bit is increasing our capability by increasing the capability and understanding of the people that we work with. That's it. Alright, spoiler alert. I'm giving a keynote after this. I'm very much the same things but I am here from New York. I run New Inc. the New Museum's incubator for art design and technology. We just started our third session and we're located in the building next door to the museum. We occupy 8,000 square feet there with about 60 desks and we have a community of about 100 creative practitioners. Some of them are individual artists. Some of them are studios working in say design or mobile and web development essentially doing client services style work. Some of them are startups developing digital or physical products and some of them are also nonprofits. We also have two anchor tenants Columbia University's Graduate School of Architecture Planning and Digital Preservation runs a program out of our space for post graduates where they select about 20 graduates of that program who are starting new businesses. The other anchor tenant is Rhizome which is the long standing affiliate of the museum. It's a digital arts organization that focuses on contemporary art made online but also digital preservation. This is kind of the ecosystem of spaces that existed and that we wanted to create something that filled the gaps in between them. Obviously as a museum we're kind of most familiar with artist residencies and how they serve to develop artists and their practice. We also saw co-working spaces proliferating around the city and tech incubators as well and it seemed like every industry had an incubator except for the arts so that was one gap that we saw happening. We were also I think very much inspired by University Media Labs places like MIT Media Lab NYU's ITP program that are working in a very interdisciplinary or as MIT likes to call it anti-disciplinary fashion bringing together different modes of practice under one roof and trying to foster collaboration between them. So we kind of drew inspiration from all of these different programs to try and create something new that would fill in this gap that we saw happening for creative practitioners who were working in ways that were more entrepreneurial than could be served by a typical artist residency but often too creative too small, not necessarily focused on rapid scale and acceleration that most tech incubators required because many of them do take equity and investment and so they're looking for businesses that can grow quite large so that they can recoup that return on investment and so we're in a way kind of more focused on small businesses and startups and I would argue that artists are also small businesses and you know, Seb talks a little bit about the financial climate as it relates to the arts in his fireside chat, many of you are probably familiar with it, we're definitely a much more private philanthropy focused country than government funding and this is not to make a case that one is better than the other but just so you have a sense, the national endowment for the arts, this is from 2012, was about half of what Kickstarter crowd funding contributed and I believe government funding is incredibly important and I wish there was more of it but the reality is that there isn't and so we end up kind of having this very sort of enterprising way of having to fill in the gaps and having to figure out how to get the resources that you need in order to make the work that you want to make and that you feel like should exist in the world and what that leads to is not only having to get creative about how you access funding but then also understanding the administrative side the logistical side the financial legal side of what it actually takes to produce the work once you've secured the funding because in the case of say Kickstarter projects maybe you've raised a couple of tens of thousands or even 100,000 if you're lucky but now you have a community of hundreds of backers who are constantly asking you where the project is that they've invested in and many Kickstarter projects actually end up failing so there was this whole kind of ecosystem that we saw evolving around us that we wanted to help address and contribute to the other thing that is really interesting in New York is New York graduates more art and design graduates than any other U.S. city it was surveyed in I think 2014 by the Center for an Urban Future 80% of them said they wanted to stay and build their careers and their businesses and their futures in New York but an overwhelming number of them did not have the business and entrepreneurial skills in order to do so and as I mentioned these skills are increasingly vital everywhere but especially vital in the states this is our space our community is with us for 12 months the program is 12 months so we take teams as large as four many of them are teams of two summer individuals they're kind of all across disciplines ranging from visual arts performance, music architecture, fashion product design they are there to the kind of develop their business skills essentially so we run a professional development program where we offer workshops and lunch lectures and classes that can help these creative practitioners understand how to build the initiatives that they want to build and this is just kind of a snapshot of some of our members we take 40 full-time and 40 part-time members every year and they have the option to renew for a second year so it's a much kind of a longer time frame than Mahuki and we also do not provide funding we charge monthly membership fees 600 a month for full-time 350 a month for part-time so in a way it's kind of similar to what ACMI is doing in a kind of co-working style model where people pay for desk space however since launching we've been fundraising to provide financial aid and scholarships to make it much more affordable and accessible to those who may not otherwise have the means thanks Julia so I run a very different lab in Sydney it's called the DX lab and it's positioned in the State Library of New South Wales I don't run a physical kind of space like what these guys are doing with the co-working space and the artist-run space so it's something that we are looking for in the future but at the moment we're a team that sits within the digital experience division of the State Library but we don't do any sort of business as usual digital products we have a digital channels team who are running the website and doing other things so what we're here to do for the library is we have boundaries around what a contemporary library can do and should be doing with its data we're really fortunate at the State Library that we have actually digitized about 10 million of our objects at the moment so we've got this rich kind of data set that we can be working with to kind of push some of those boundaries with the technologies to make these collections more accessible and sort of to inspire others to kind of use our data as well so we're sort of working in that digital humanities research more than a space that develops that kind of incubator program but having said that I still believe in bringing in people to benefit from the work that the lab has been fortunate enough to kind of be funded to do so we do fellowships we do scholarships, we do digital drop-in programs we partner with a lot of different people so I think it's really important for us to have that space within the lab so it's not just us within the library saying hey we can do this it's about bringing the people in with us to kind of look at things in a new way and kind of challenge some of the perceptions around collections and access because a lot of the ways you get to material is not kind of easy and we're sort of pushing some of those boundaries around the one-to-one relationship with search as well so that's we pointed out a fellowship this year it was $30,000 I think it was one of the first dedicated digital fellowships offered by GLAM and that's really important to us in the library we do a lot of research and fellowships but one when I got there I noticed that there wasn't sort of a dedicated digital kind of experimental fellowship so we were lucky enough to be supported by the foundation to do this and we've got a couple of creatives who have taken that up and they're doing a really incredible job with exposing some of the collections in new ways had two digital drop-ins in fact we had Chris McDowell New Zealand here come over and do a drop-in with us for about a week and we kind of rapidly prototyped a product called Weemala which is looking at Indigenous place names in Australia that's been quite successful for us and so we've gone on to now look at maybe doing version two of that and Loom is just an example of a big data-vis project that we've just pushed out this year looking at data from across the Sydney area but having three different lenses an experience of getting into the same data so that's all on our website under experiments let's just actually go leave it on that so now we're just going to kick off into a bit more sort of informal discussion I think you get a sense from all of us how different our labs are I want to pick up on something that actually you, Courtney and said we're talking about in terms of the relevance of the work that we're doing in labs and experimentation hubs co-working spaces in the creative cultural sector right now why are they important what is the reason that we have to do this work now and how do we make them sustainable I might start with you Julia on that if it's okay sure, why is it important I think from our perspective we really look at the creative ecosystem, the creative industries the creative economy and I think during your conversation the idea of the museum as public servant came up which is very familiar to us but I think it's kind of extending the role that the public servant can play in your local city and community and how we support the creative industries more broadly not just the artists who we show in our museum but what does the creative ecosystem of New York look like it is becoming an increasingly difficult place to live for artists it's prohibitively expensive and there isn't the wealth of support that you have here in Europe and so how can we play a role in that in terms of sustainability as I mentioned we do have a business model it was part of our mandate to be self-sustaining as a program so that it isn't a program that is exclusively reliant on patronage or grant support we do have a revenue stream via the membership fees and the fees for desk space to be able to what members might pay at another co-working space in Manhattan but with the added benefit of the programming, the mentorship support that we offer them right now because we've been fundraising to be able to subsidize members the revenue that we get from membership fees comprises maybe about 60 to 70% of our operating budget in the majority but then we have some foundation funding to be able to create some new staff positions and also to give scholarships and subsidies to those who can't afford it to pay I think for us ours is revenue neutral or revenue positive based on the tenants the tenancy agreements it's also allowed us to align and this is something I'd recommend is that alignment with a new source of funding for funding much as Julia said that sense of getting out of just being arts and culture or cultural tourism as your funding sources but to look at what you offer back to the creative cities push that's going on in larger cities and the innovation agendas particularly in Australia and New Zealand that open up schools of government support from places you might not have seen as well as from private sources too who may not have given to the arts but will give to things that they are more familiar with I would also say that for us it's been the universities being key and fine being in a city that has universities based in the CBD that ability to work with has removed some of the needs for us that we might have thought we might have had to have done which were to build fab labs or editing studios and those sorts of things which in our case would have been perhaps additional to the museum's own requirements and then they wouldn't have necessarily been used so by working with others who have the physical the specialist physical resources that your tenants might need is often a good way to go reduces your capital investment but ours I would say has been premised on an office relocation move which opened up 60 additional seats of space that we didn't need for our staff but we had to pay the rent on so by sub-leasing those in alignment with our mission we've been able to not only cover the rent but better deliver our new mission and all these other benefits that flow both directions to the tenants as well as to us as well as the community and I think it's that alignment of benefit that's critical in both our spaces is that it's about that shared value that is created by the artists and small businesses and the museum working together that exceeds what would have been done individually so you asked about speed and sustainability so first we're thinking about speed I mean one of the obviously it's called an accelerator which means we're all about speed and part of that is about the start-up philosophy of fast failing so the idea is actually or the philosophy is that to move quickly through ideas to test those ideas and those that are going to fly continue with them but those that aren't, fail it quickly so you can move on to the next idea and so part of the ethos of programs like us are also about embracing and celebrating fast fails there is successful so that speaks more to the program but in terms of the accelerator one of the outcomes of Mahuki has been that it has put a little bit of pressure on to Papa to speed up some of its activities one of which is the digitisation of so and I've been thinking about that and I've spoken to some Māori audiences and with you know there's quite a lot of clearances and considerations around the use of Māori taonga and whatnot but actually future generations of New Zealanders including Māori are going to want to be able to see their stories or participate in the different and emerging technology platforms that are coming through so and this is one of the things we've picked up from our trip to the US is that actually will we as museums be there to meet those technology platforms when they're ready to be able to tell the stories in the formats that a number of our different audiences are going to demand of us in the future so those are kind of a few reflections on the speed side. I'm not sure if I actually answered exactly what you wanted but anyway got those off my chest in terms of sustainability so for general business accelerators you generally ask for three years give us three years in order to prove out the success and the outcomes of this program and during that three years also to be working on a sustainability plan for the ongoing funding so none of these programs should be set up expecting to be funded forever they just won't be no matter how successful you are because at some stage something more shiny and bright will come up and it should so actually we're not planning for this to be around forever but we're planning to give this a damn good go right now part of the sustainability plans for Mahiki is that the space will be available for commercial hire when Mahiki is not running its program which will also help underwrite and we're looking at a number of other different revenue streams so just picking up on that point of success which we talked a bit about yesterday so what does success kind of look like for you in these spaces and how do you measure that and how do you like being so new I mean you're probably the oldest in a way because it's three years now coming up to three years how do you measure success for the work that you do yeah I mean you know of course there's the traditional sort of economic development metrics so how many jobs were created what is the economic impact of the businesses and the programs that are coming out of these spaces for us that's one aspect of it because not all of our members are interested in scalable projects looking at kind of industry excellence are the companies and the individuals coming out of new Inc being recognized by their peers are they winning awards are they getting recognition what kind of collaborative environment are we creating are we seeing these entities and individuals at New Inc working together forging relationships hiring one another what sort of impact are we having on creating a generative space and for us to I think because we are the most kind of broad program of these three in that we have both sole practitioners and startups that are you know seeking venture capital is having a dialogue between these typical polarities that are often very much siloed from one another and you don't often see an exchange in perspectives which can often be a critical exchange where artists are you know taking maybe an anti-capitalist stance and trying to problematize the venture capital route and that's I think something that's really valuable and intangible and kind of hard to measure but it's something that we're really interested in. You've kind of been involved in a number of different styles of labs do you want to talk a little bit about success across the different kind of sure I mean ACMEX our things are very similar to Juulia's in terms of success is reflected through the greater things that are made collaboratively over a longer period of time than maybe just their time with us but also that sort of alumni network I think that universities have really over the last decade or so have really figured out how to maximize those alumni relationships and that's the thing that I think co-working spaces and incubators in our sector need to really focus on that we want someone who's been through one of our spaces in 10 years time to say that's what changed their practice not to forget us and it's when they're acquired by MoMA that they're like oh you know I'm acquired by MoMA now so great it's not that it's that I'm acquired by MoMA but in new new new week so being able to do that alumni piece we actually just had a project that had their work acquired by MoMA so it happens but I think the other sort of labs is the more labs that were labs by name which was more akin to what Paula's got now and I think you know when I was at powerhouse we had we had a team that was commercially funded was like a web agency inside the museum that was making projects for government at Cooper Hewitt we called ourselves Cooper Hewitt Lab but that was really only a naming device and that naming device brought us a freedom externally which separated our brand from the broader museum brand and allowed our brand to push a different riskier view of the museum but then the museum brand incorporated which was intentional but also allowed the internal staff to see the work as happening in a safe space and so that that sort of naming of a lab even if it's not physical space or even if it's only your 20% time or 2% time as it is in our world it's that sort of naming that carves out a sort of a psychological fortress around your team permission to do things that they may not otherwise do and allows others in the museum to say that's okay I don't have to see that as impacting on our core brand or impacting on my other work that has to happen so it's that sort of safe space notion of carving out through naming which is something we do with our identities we do it with subcultures we should do this with our work lives as well. So what's your advice though to smaller organisations who don't have sort of even digital web teams, how would you suggest that they start working in that way said like just I mean I think it is about creating that naming, name a space first and that creates it, the naming is important I would name a theme that doesn't exist to make that thing a reality and humans are very good at doing that language is a very powerful tool that we often don't give enough credence to. The other piece is that I think that it's about trying to small to mediums you need to work the lab is probably their piece with the community that part of them that they work with and that the lab may actually be a psychological space that exists with that community and scattered across network of physical spaces in New Zealand that could be or in Australia it could be a series of sheds, we like sheds that sort of thing, that it could be that there are moments where the lab emerges but it is about creating that safe space through naming first So success for us is all of the things that those guys said but actually the first success for us is that we just wanted people to apply to the program and they did and we got 10 awesome teams, we want at least 8 of them to finish the program and that's looking, that's going to happen and then we're looking at other more tangible results from the first program, we want deployment into PAPA, so we've got at least 5 of the teams looking at having active trials onto PAPA or displays on the floor including So Curio with Emily, the VR that I hope you'll go down and have a test of after this even point of sale and merchandise in the retail store to accompany the bugs exhibition, so those are really tangible outcomes, long-term we want these businesses to really rocket and actually ultimate success from my point of view is that they'll give us back some money and then there's all the other great things that go around that We have an intervention from the floor You've got a question I'm just wondering for there's only so many kind of incubators that can exist in any kind of market, so to speak I mean here in Wellington we've got a bunch of them, I'm sure there's heaps in New York well, maybe a few more What advice would you have to other organizations who don't have an incubator who perhaps have got something to offer or want to get involved again, there's no point necessarily and it's all setting up these incubators so what are the ways which I guess a broader network across an environment can kind of connect into some of the things that you're doing We have some hot tits prepared I tell you So that's a great question it's probably true for all of us is that these initiatives that we set up were contributing to the community they weren't competing with other programs that were already there they were filling a gap, filling a need and I think that's really important that's point number two The other thing that's true for both Seb and I and is it true for you as well too for the real estate piece that you guys had or did you develop that specifically? The museum had a building that we weren't using we purchased it in 2008 because it became available it came with some existing tenants and then one of the floors opened up and so it was something that we had available to us and we were thinking creatively about how we could utilize that space without necessarily turning it into additional exhibition space we were already doing artist residencies in that building so we could have expanded that but this was a way to launch a new type of program that was contributing something different to the community and to the ecosystem The community value I think is the most important aspect so making sure that what you are offering is really benefitting the whole in a unique way and doing something that isn't being done elsewhere Strategic partnerships is also something that Seb talked about quite a bit as I mentioned we work with Columbia University we also are developing different kinds of strategic partnerships with other cultural institutions non-profit spaces education institutions for instance we're working with a the Tribeca Film Festival their interactive program they often feed projects into our space because they grant them money and then those projects go off and are developed somewhere independently whereas at New Inc. they could be part of a community they could have that infrastructure and business training and support and it kind of makes Tribeca's investment more secure in a way because they're developing within an ecosystem where they have some sort of safety net so to speak of course having a business model as Tui was mentioning is really important for all of these programs because they are not funded in perpetuity and experimentation is something that I think is really important so to your point Andy what can you do that small that kind of tries it out and can test something iterate and evolve throughout New Inc. we've been trying things evaluating, assessing and iterating which is that kind of lean start up methodology of like failing fast but gaining insights about how we're doing what we're doing because it's new we're borrowing from different models not necessarily executing them 100% as prescribed in other kind of tech incubator or co-working environments because we're sort of adapting it for this particular cultural context and so if you can start small and prototype something in your existing space maybe bringing on a contractor to work in-house like as you were doing in powerhouse and seeing what happens with that that relationship and that exchange and also kind of talking to the people in your community and seeing what do they need what can you provide that you uniquely have access to that is going to benefit them I think it's also that point of that what is the museum got that's unique and valuable to the community and making it feel like what you're making has is aligned with what the museum is about you could all go and set up a commercial thing but that would be kind of silly it has to feel right I think museums we're not good at defining that some of the time and the thing is that these creative companies initiatives are often overlooked like they're not necessarily going to be hugely profitable in the way that venture capitalists are interested in and so they're underserved and how can we as cultural institutions help provide for them where no one else is so just chucked up a few this is from another presentation just a few maybe handy hints of ways that you could start integrating or you know start on the road the journey towards integrating some of the philosophies underpinning the mahuki program but so if you saw that everyone's talked a lot about the Code Weeking but the tertiary engagement some of you will be doing this already but actually the tertiary engagement is quite it's a good solid foundation to the mahuki program there's nothing to stop anyone doing that right now and actually giving live briefs out to students it's a pretty low investment for actually a really high impact some of the ideas that we heard back were phenomenal and not only that but it really inspired staff and got them thinking and it put them into a mentorship leadership role and so then it got them really interested because they were actually sharing their knowledge and information with the students the outreach so the innovation events that I talked about that's very easy to be run you can partner with others that will help you run those of a hackathon start-up weekends we're looking at the potential for upcoming exhibitions could we run some sort of start-up weekend in anticipation of those to get ideas from the start-up community about what we might incorporate into some of those designs start-up methodology we've talked about that Melissa and other members of the public digital team have talked about the agile the land canvas frameworks but all of those are things that underpin mahuki that can be introduced into organizations now and then internship programs so kind of glossed over there but within mahuki we have four paid interns who sit alongside the program for this whole duration but we have up to 26 unpaid interns although some of the people it would be great if we could pay them all but we can't but therefore the UB School of Design who provide high technical skills into the teams and that's another community that we're impacting but then the other one that I didn't have a slide for is actually in a number of organizations you have a commercialization manager or you have someone that actually identifies innovation or activities within the organization and then takes those out and looks to develop those a little bit further that doesn't have to be a whole person that could actually be a part of someone's job but someone that's actually thinking about what is it, so not necessarily new ideas like within mahuki but actually someone that's going around identifying what is it that we're doing in here that actually is really innovative and unique and we could develop that further into some sort of spin out or start up So we might take some other questions I think now because we've got about five minutes left do we have any other questions that you want to ask Can you just wait for the microphone and hold it up to your mouth Hey, so my sorry I did actually miss the first half so sorry if this has been discussed but my kind of question was like which community are you targeting like is there do you worry about maybe just only reaching the a certain maybe privileged community of people who are already entrepreneurs who are already made it and what about the people who maybe have various socio-economic reasons you're trying to talk about that you did so no with the mahuki model we provide funding to the teams that come into the program because it's been shown that and we also provide funding to those four interns if you don't provide funding you will just get a certain demographic involved and we didn't want that so we wanted to have the most obvious of companies that we could possibly choose from but then all of the other activities the tertiary outreach, the start-up outreach the internships all of those are building the next generation of companies or teams that we hope will come into the program Yeah we've actually done quite a bit of legwork around diversity and inclusion and doing in fact with the help of grant we were able to create a position specifically focused on this this past year and what that position does is helps us look at different kinds of pipelines that can address communities of color specifically but also women and representation of different socio-economic backgrounds in the space we have scholarships available for those folks and it's something that we've looked at pretty much from the get-go and have been developing resources to support and enable within our space Yeah we curate our tenants and we take those issues into consideration we also have supported places as well but we take by incorporating ACME-X into the mission of the museum all our initiatives that cover it we try to not separate those out and so far so good I think you know these are all museums as we're starting off these practices in the commercial space we're trying to figure out how to make that work better and we have a lot of way to go on it I think being new at you know the DX Lab we're sort of 15 months in we're starting to realize well who are those people that can benefit from working within the DX Lab with us when we start researching for say younger creative technologists placements and things like that there's not a lot around for people who don't get opportunities in some of the regional areas so we're looking at trying to offer a program for people who necessarily don't get those opportunities and that can be through the digital dropping program or through a fellowship so I think it's a really good question to be aware of do we have any more questions before we finish up? one more just one more in relation to how these hubs are being used the various organizations or companies that come in it's a you're encouraging them to use the digitized collections that might be available as that part of the sort of are you getting something back in return I suppose that's what I'm curious about and how might that relationship be developed after the period that might be in the hub well in our case we're not a collecting institution so we don't focus on that but we do think about ways that the museum can be a testing ground for some of these ideas so we've done several collaborations with the new museum store with the membership department with the education department so we're plugging into the museum in various ways that are not necessarily related to the exhibitions at the moment that's kind of the next area that I want to tackle ours is very explicitly using the museum space people product test in the museum space there have been some commissions that have come out in the last 6 months there was a VR commission a lot of public programs and talk series a whole bunch of benefits in terms of programming content and experiences but those are two way exchanges of value one thing again being museum of interactive media and games and TV and film that sort of thing if somebody comes and tests their video game or their VR experience on the weekend in our public spaces not only is that the business getting the learnings from that the public is getting to see how those experiences are made and how those processes what firms are doing that so for us it's pretty clear about that exchange which is a unique selling point for our tenants too the tenants want to align with our brand and what we're about and the resources we have the networks we have the connections we have and it's about new exchange then for us it's the same as what I said previously so having some of the teams be deployed is a tangible outcome but not just into purpose so we've been really worked hard to try to involve lots of other museums from New Zealand on different shapes and sizes so that the solutions that the teams are developing also account for right down to the Catherine Mansfield birthplace or the cricket museum through to wonderful mediums not just a national museum in terms of the ongoing relationship for us although we're not there won't be co-located with us it's not a co-working situation we aim to have an enduring relationship with those teams so they will turn into our alumni, alumni of 2016 will continue to run a program of activities for them next year and then when we bring in 2017 they become alumni, our alumni grows bigger and bigger so this again it's about growing the big ecosystem I think we need to get Julia down on stage there's tea first thank you Julia 728 that was a really informative great panel