 Welcome back to the breakfast final conversation this morning. We're going to be moving into a crisis that has rocked the world And of course little aspects where it involves and Nigeria The Israel Palestine crisis has led to the death of more than 100 people in the last few days and in reaction to it World powers the United States and the United Nations have all tried to step in to of course a call for a ceasefire The Turkish president to accept Taipei Doga and of course in reaction to all the crisis Riched out to the Nigerian government saying that he believes Nigeria will support Palestine In the wake of all of this crisis this morning. We're going to be speaking with Mr. Kach on nonoju and having a quick discussion about this good morning and Well, thanks for joining us, but I think we don't have him yet. We're gonna have to reconnect with him in a bit Yes, so I think one of the biggest questions here is should Nigeria intervene should Nigeria say something in the global community about this particular issue We're talking about this off-cam and we're like, okay. We're part of the organization of Islamic countries So that means Nigeria should automatically take a start side with Palestine, but really I think there's If if you see the body language of Nigerians as a whole there's just been a lot of talk about you know, you're not taking the speck out of your own eye and you're trying to do that for someone else and Talks about charity beginning from home and talks about all the myriad of challenges We're having in the country having secessionist agitations from the North the South the East the West wherever We're having issues with our security forces. We're having issues with you know, just praise Predators on the prowl looking for young girls and boys to basically attack main kill There's just a lot going on in Nigeria. We have a full plate of security of security challenges in the country So people say why don't we fix ourselves rather than chip into you know The Palestinian Israeli conflicts has been going on for years and years and I don't think it's the end today Or that Nigeria taking a side would actually do anything Maybe if anything you might even aggravate the conflict if anything because we're not taking a side in this conflict But I don't I don't really see Exactly the focus of the aim of this but like I mentioned the question should be should Nigeria be getting involved in Israeli Palestinian conflict right now and Mr. Kachan and you should really give us his own thoughts on this matters in enough Well, it depends on what you describe as taking a side or you know getting involved I don't expect that, you know, he would get to the place where we would need to get involved militarily Definitely, I think it is really just you know support basically Politically and you know with regards You know every time they you know when things like this happen They always draw, you know a table and so okay These are countries that you know support this place. This is a country to support, you know this remember when the you know Be afra or the civil will happen. Yes, there was also that table, you know, this is a country to support And there's a country to support, you know be afra and all of that. So there's always that It would Nigeria may not, you know be able to take a stand Actively, you know, but really just to say that this is where our no definitely it's all it's all One of the one of the aids to the president also tweeted Something about Palestine a couple of days ago, you know, so you can already tell that the Nigerian government already, you know Would be leaning towards Palestine There's people who of course would have their own thoughts, you know There's Nigerians who you know, of course are Christians and would like to always lean towards the Jews or lay towards Israel and all of that you know, so it's it's a It's many many angles, you know that you may want to see it from you know But Nigeria has a country of what relevance is it, you know, really, you know that, you know They are taking a stand, you know with our own challenges and I would also quickly say that every country has their own challenges Every country has their own security challenges. Every country has their own, you know gender challenges, you know economy Corruption all of that, you know, but it doesn't stop, you know Every nation from being able to say that at a time like this when lives are being lost between Israel and Palestine You know, we would like to say that we stand with the Israeli people or would like to say that we stand with the Palestinian people Because this is the way that we understand the crisis and this country needs to back down on all of that You know, this is this is stuff that has happened as you know Many many years ago 18th century as far back as you know, even 1947 is when it really began to you know Develop into something bigger than we and then the world expected There's also different ways that people understand it some people see it as oh, you know And that's the one that really just annoys me where people see it as you know God is you know the God of the Israeli people is fighting for them and all of that You know, I feel it's you know, really really ignorant because if you know The foundation of all of it, you know, you would also see where the Israelis have gone totally wrong How they have committed their own years and years of human rights abuses and bullying and killing and murder of Palestinians You would also see where people would argue that you know that that's what has given rise to the you know to The emergence of groups like Hamas who have become a militarized and they you know terror group You know to defend the Palestinian people So there's numerous angles to this You know, it's always safer to really just stay away from it because you can never really really fully understand You know the scope of this whole crisis. I've read the book The book son of Hamas is the story of a man who grew up, you know in Hamas He his father was one of the leaders of Hamas and so he was able to tell the story from a very very very You know deep perspective of how the group functions of why the group, you know exist of white You know politics and money and corruption and some of all those things have made it difficult for the group to To be defeated and made it difficult for the water or even you know be one Or for any peace deals, you know to ever be reached because there's people in The Palestinian government and people in the Israeli government who have been on on the ground Being, you know funding and supporting, you know, these groups and making sure that they continue to exist I Don't know what Nigeria, you know and the relevance of our stand is but maybe it's just to add to the number of Islamic nations and allies, you know that will stay with this side or with that side I have a statement here from the federal ministry of the Minister of Foreign Affairs a Booja and This statement was signed by Fedin I don't want you as a spokesperson of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as signed on Thursday, May 13 2021 and it reads The Ministry of Foreign Affairs wishes to state that the federal government of Nigeria is watching with great concern You know the unfolding developments in Israel and Palestine and urges both parties to see reason to Deescalate the hostilities it went on to say the Nigerian government further urges the two parties to remain Committed to the two-state solution and in the meantime guarantee the rights of all citizens to leave in peace and dignity This seems like a politically correct statement, you know, they have managed to stay neutral in this particular statement You know, we also see the Ministry of Foreign Affairs here, you know speaking talking about how they want they want both sides To ensure that everybody's safe, but we know that over the weekend on Saturday There was a bombing a demolition of a 13-storey building which houses the Associated Press and Al Jazeera in the Gaza Strip So these tensions continue to escalate like you mentioned hundreds of people have died. It's not looking funny and Definitely, we look forward to the United Nations speaking about this. We know that United United States press White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki has spoken about the same We need to guarantee press freedom make sure that in the midst of all this crisis newsmen are safe and you know protected the The the the neutrality Started my thinking good luck, but Jonathan's administration There was a moment where Nigeria decided to be neutral and that's how it has been You know since then, you know, so with the current administration, you know There is now expectations of where you know, we're gonna go if they're gonna go, you know towards Palestine or you know with Israel I'll continue to stay neutral I am, you know, and I believe that what everybody should be concerned really about is the human angle There is more than 180 people that have lost their lives in the last one week, which is very very Majority from Just about 80 Israelis have died which, you know, you can never look at and say always, you know, it's a clash You know that that is not a clash. That is just outright bullying and you know on abuse there is, you know, many many years off of of You know settlers, you know pushing Palestinians away from their of their homes seizing their homes chasing them away from, you know Places that they would argue are rightfully theirs And these are things that have gone on for many many years, you know, so Once again for me it is what I think the world should be focused on is the human angle And that's why they should be a continuous push for a cease-fire the human angle because of the victims and the casualties of this War a lot of them do not belong to Hamas a lot of them are not necessarily in any militarized Palestinian group a lot of them are families, you know daughters sons fathers mothers who are really just innocent Palestinians caught in crossfire Same thing, you know on the Israeli side. That's where you know a lot of the casualties, but We cannot continue to just as a you know as a world turn our back and act like it doesn't matter that a hundred people have died Through bombings through airstrikes through, you know, shellings, you know, whatever it is that, you know They have continued to use in the last couple of days and it doesn't it's not normal Yes, I agree with that angle, you know lives are being lost so it'll be unfair for the words to turn its back on What's happening there? But on the other hand experts would argue like I mentioned all the crisis going on in the country You know who really speaking about this, you know on our end I remember when you know the British government tried to intervene You know regaining a whole I pop to grant asylum and how the Nigerian government condemned them So all these issues coming to play and others will point out to Nigeria's foreign policy Which supposedly focuses on Africa, you know, he says Nigerian focus on you know foreign policy focuses on Africa As a regional power and by attachment to several fundamental principles, you know foreign policy focusing on African unity African independence African capability Exercise and hermenegic influence in Africa. So all these things come come into play And when you look at how this, you know, the scope of this crisis is really spreading across the world You look at in Jordan in Germany in in France There's been protest exactly protest all over the weekend people coming out in the hundreds in the thousands to protest against what's happening in the You know, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict lots of people have been arrested a policeman was actually killed, you know So this issue needs a lot of de-escalation Sadly, you know also to quickly remind you know people one of the saddest parts of The world that we live in is when you ask for countries and what standard they will take a lot of countries rely on their own political Interest of their own interest a country's interest, you know a lot of times it's protected first And it's put, you know as top priority before any other thing, you know So if you're asking for the same thing, you know when you know people were calling on the United States of France or the UK or Germany to get involved with you know issues here They would you know those countries would always look at their political interests first And that's what they would always put a stop priority before they get involved with whatever mess that you're dealing with and so Unfortunately for Israel and Palestine, they would have to also realize that Whatever countries and whatever decisions whatever standard, you know any country decides to take would always consider its own political interest first You know so that it doesn't lose out on the bigger picture Because it you know took the wrong stand Innocent lives will continue to be lost because countries would always look at the unpolitical interest first and they would turn their back You know when you expect them to take action These are all sovereign states also even if you have Palestinian Palestine rather has struggled to you know You know establish its own sovereignty for a very very long time, but There there would be you know a lot of pressure You know and I think the pressure really needs to move towards Israel. It's my personal opinion needs to move mostly towards Israel With regards de-escalation and this is because of the human angle The pressure is actually on Israel really I mean protest for the Israeli You know Ambassador to resign protest near the Israeli embassy. So really though the pressure is yes, you know But if you still have a hundred and eighty something people killed, you know Then it doesn't seem like that pressure means anything to them And you know if you cannot in any way target Hamas, you know directly Because yes, people have said and you know, that's the way it really has seen Hamas has continued to use Palestinians as human shields To protect themselves from being targeted. And so when these airstrikes and these bombings are core It's it, you know, it You know instead of the you know the Hamas Leaders and fighters, you know to be killed a lot of people eventually, you know a wife They were in all of that I think we have our guests now and mr. Katch on non of you. Thank you very much. Good morning. Good morning It's our knowledge you can hear us Fantastic, let's bring you in on what you think regarding the Israeli Palestinian conflict and what the stance of Nigeria should be at this time Should we get involved? Yes, I think the issue of the Palestinian crisis it's a consequence of the four years of Inactivity in regards to the peace process the front administration Was commonly tried to get all its Arab friends to make peace with Israel without making peace It's all known and you can hear us and that's where you see that fail so I believe The Palestinians have every right to desperately speak To force these calibrations in intentions To bring their case to the intimate community for me. That is what has happened The more Israel bombs the Gaza The more you see the world will say what's going on and then they will tell them the Settlements are going on. There is no attempt in the past four or five years to sit and progress the peace process and so out of frustration The Palestinians are now doing exactly what they're doing So so in what in what way do you think Nigeria in any way, you know can get involved the Turkish president asking Nigeria to you know takes sides with Palestine of what relevance is Nigeria stand? That is just empty rhetorics Nigeria has nothing to do There are two things going on there a Palestinian frustration one and then the Israeli citizener Mr. Onoju It also happens in Lebanon These reliefs have a program of making sure seasoner 2014 They believe that the Palestinians are built up some capabilities. So the only way to reduce it Is this kind of crisis and you can see that they're also protein to now go there and start to implement What they call the ground activity the ground activity will simply go there and more pop what the air bombings is not more pop and So this is a long-term strategy By this release and of course, this is why as I explained earlier the non-movement in the peace process is the reason is why The Palestinians are now bringing their story to the world So yes, they may lose some people That they are the winners in this old thing Nigeria has nothing to contribute Nigeria is not even stable. Nigeria has no wealth. What will it do to Israel? Nothing Okay, what will it do for the Palestinians is to disease and hungry. So what will Nigeria do about? to vote alongside those put against us Apart from that this issue will not be resolved Okay Trump to make peace with Israel should ask themselves What about the Palestinians? Would you make peace with Israel and abandon the Palestinians? in Nothing will stop any idea whose time has come Okay, miss. I don't know. Why do you think Nigeria has nothing to contribute to the Israeli Palestinian conflict? Is it because of our own internal security challenges? Yes, are you there? I can hear you Yes, I repeat your question I said, why do you think that Nigeria has nothing to contribute to these conflict? Is it because we're dealing with our own security challenges? Nigeria cannot afford to do anything abrasive in a way to offend the Americans or the European powers who during the British mandate over Palestine allows the migration back to Palestine Remember, this is not a small issue. It started over 70 years ago When from British Palestine Yes, when they stopped started to stop the return of the Palestinians Then the Palestinians now started fighting against the British then till the creation of 1948 after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in the first world war and the end of the second world war and then The quest by Europeans to drive is released back to their Jewish homeland So for me, I believe Nigeria really has nothing to do. What would they do? They can't they can't do anything openly or they will incur the wrath of the international community All right, we are in need the Americans to be a little bit understanding in regard to the internal agitations for separation and they also need the British Understanding so they cannot do anything to anger the British or the Americans Due to various policies He cannot do anything. All right. Finally. I want you to speak on, you know, how if well damaging or Effective the peace deals that Donald Trump Started between Arab nations and Israel. How much damage did that do to the Israel Palestine? crisis The that particular thing you talked about put Donald Trump cost is the reason for the despair And she's a hopelessness by the Palestinians So that's why the current crisis is the bonanza for them a propaganda bonanza They have scored the bulls die No matter what Israel does with this iron doom the Palestinians are the winners of the current random hostilities because for Trump Forgo to this process and then start to behave in a way as if all the Arab neighbors Can be coaxed Into having a deal with Israel and abandoning the Palestinians Which means try to shape the head of the Palestinians in their absence That is why you see Hamas Has now forced this current crisis and I believe The Trump administration's policy Are responsible because if they have done anything To even tell the Palestinians that they are doing something Then we will know that the peace process is on But by using that backdoor To make things between the Israelis and all america's arab friends abandoning the Palestinians Simply told the Palestinians That the issue about the two-state policy May never be possible That's exactly where Israel continues to build more settlements in the Kupai territory Forcing the Arabs into this test of despair And subsequently this action By Hamas And each reaction from Israel All right kachan on the Jew. Thank you very much for on bond linda's story for us and thanks for your time this morning Thank you for having me. Okay Okay, we definitely will be following up You know the Crisis any other bits of it will make it to our news and of course subsequent discussions here on the breakfast Thank you very much if you missed out on any of it remember to join us on our social media platforms at Plus tv africa Yes, thank you very much again for joining us this lovely monday morning the 17th of may 2021 I am annetta philix and I am a saugie