 Hello and welcome to Balot 2023 at this time. My name is Nyam Gul Aghaji. Two days after the governorship and state assembly elections, Nigerians and political parties are still reacting to the outcome of the elections. Tonight we analyze voter turnout and its effect on the results in various states. On March 18, Nigerians came out to vote for their preferred governorship candidates across the different political parties in 28 states of the Federation. Results from the elections exercise are now being announced by the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC. In many states, the dynamics change after the presidential election with political parties clinging to victories after losing to the opposition during the 25th of February presidential election. In Lagos, for instance, the all-progressive Congress APC had lost to the Labour Party during the presidential poll, but things changed during the governorship elections held on Saturday. APC's Baba Jidesong Oulu has been declared the winner already, while the candidate of the Labour Party, Badebo Road's Vivao, came a distant second. The LPs candidate are ledges rigging while they were mainly reported cases of violence and voter suppression during the election. It was the same story in Oyo where Shayeem Makin, the day of the People's Democratic Party, PDP, led APC's Teslim forloring with a wide margin as against what transpired during the presidential election when APC won. In Katzina State, the PDP had won the presidential election, but APC took over the battlefield as INEC announced Deku Radha of the APC as the winner of the election. The outcome of the elections may have seemed to be unpredictable. Well, joining us live to discuss this is Ebenezer Wikinaw, founder, policy shippers. Welcome to the program, Ebenezer. Thank you so much for having me. Okay, we also have Eugene Abel's Executive Director, the Extra Step Initiative. Welcome to the program, Eugene. Thank you for having me. And then we have Angu Ongu, a public affairs analyst. Welcome to the program, Angu. Thank you very much. It's my pleasure to be in your studios again. Good evening, Nigeria. Good evening. Let me begin with you, Ebenezer. You are a campaign strategist. Let us start by describing what you saw in the campaigns leading to the elections of both the 25th of February and that of Saturday. How would you describe the campaign strategies, especially those of the major political parties, and how that will affect our subsequent elections? Yes, well, I mean, as we all know, this was a very keenly contested race at all levels, states, national, you know, levels, and one of the major achievements, I think, was that we were able to have a new electoral act. This is something that has been pending for quite a while. I think that was a good achievement, you know, competition, civil society, as well as other, you know, organizations were able to push for that to come through. One of the missing things from the campaign, I think, is that, you know, you want every campaign that follows the political cycle to be about the issues, right? You want the issues to be elevated. You want the challenges to be elevated, and you want those who have the solutions. So it gives it an opportunity for those that have the solutions, you know, to stand and defend their solutions. I'm talking about a debate, you know, it's shocking that in 2023, we're having arguments on whether we should have a debate or we shouldn't have a debate, and what the debate is, what the town hall is. And I think that was one of the major challenges that we had in the conversation this time. So from a campaign angle, I think even though the candidates were able to move to various states, you know, we saw some parties engaging people beyond just the campaign ground to meeting markets, market traders, market women, you know, young people in universities. Those were good things, but I think just that missing bit of having candidates at the national level, and most of the state level, actually, candidates being able to come out and defend their ideas. You know, there's something when you say you need that, you can stand one hour, two hours talking about the ideas you're passionate about, and you can defend those ideas on national TV, right? I think we miss that particular part. And so most times, when you don't have the issues being elevated, you then have issues like tribalism, you know, where's your certificates? All of these other issues I think are quite flamesy, you know, that then dominates the space. So I think moving forward, we need to be able to ensure that politics is a political idea. Ideas, thoughts, intellectualism, where we're able to bring the solutions to the problems and we can argue based on the ideas, you know, and then not be carried away by all of the tribalism that we saw following the gubernatorial elections. Well, unfortunately, the person who has been declared president-elect was the one that never attended any debate at all, while others were attending debates, but that is where we are right now. But we will move forward. Let me go to Eugene. One of your favorite quotes I understand is that of Patrick Delecourt, I think. He says, history is a benign teacher. Only the wise learn from it, others repeat previous mistakes. Do you think we have learned any lessons from our previous elections that we carried on to this one? And do you think we will ever learn from even this election to make the next election better? Well, thanks for having me. We have learned nothing. We know the issues. We know the challenges that because we, the employers of these people, have refused to insist on our right and for them to do the right thing. And a couple of days back, I was just thinking, from the 1967 elections to the 16th to all the elections that have taken place, been the issues that led to the civil war, the issues that led to the military coup of 1983, the Nicaraguan presence, the Nicaraguan came in. We've always allowed the umpire to come to how, do the way they like. And we never audit them or hold them accountable. And people always believe them, people who say, oh, because we don't have laws for people. They are basic fundamental laws that are very good for us. Who give an instance here? For instance, we are witnesses that INEC had to postpone the elections saying that they only had a set of machines. We were the budget that provided for them for those machines. Meaning they could have, I expect that for an election that over 100 billion has been expended. That would have two sides of that as a case of incidents. If we did so, we have learned nothing, particularly with the electorates. We have refused to insist on debates. The way we are going now, I think people expect us to even write it in constitutionally, electoral agratumous campaign. That's the way it is now. All I need to do is get the party ticket. I don't need to come there. I don't need to debate. I get people, boys who have arms, I have money and I can do the work like as long as on that day, I can beat up people, take up, but we have learned nothing. We have learned nothing. Only for me this morning to see on a news bar of a TV station, the INEC is saying that in the places where they had issues there will be no repeal elections. They are not even waiting for the process to be concluded. You, an employee, you are already dictating to us what should happen. That you are not going to revisit certain things. Where are you going to? Where are you running to? I listened to Coletion in some of the centers there. People are telling me electoral art was designed in such a way that I need to go to court. I need to cancel results there. People are telling you already if there is a discrepancy between what is on the INEC server and what this man is announcing here. The least I expect is to see process. Once a challenge has been raised, that result is supposed to be suspended while those things are very high. I didn't see those process system. All I see and smell is arrogance of our employees against the Nigerian people who are the employers. We have learned nothing. And if we continue this trajectory, I remember that the arrogance of the Nigerians won in nation. In 1983, Nigeria could not define 12 to 12 countries. They, Nigeria is struggling to define something written in black gamma which says and the federal character territory, Nigeria can't find it. Nigeria cannot define the world transmission. That's where we are. And unlimited people, meaning that they're not lawyers, struggle, fought to make sure that the electoral act was amended so that people won't turn from one election to the other. And those who are supposed to be custodians of justice, not the law, provides a platform for people to violate the civil acts and become elected. There's no need for us now. We'll just tie up and carry my checks and anyone who takes any territory can begin to rule. If I remember the in most states incident, witnesses who are from the Nigerian police, who are employees of the umpire, the umpire didn't provide those results. What are we? What is wrong with us? Have we not learned lessons of nations? Lesson things led us to, what is wrong with us? I don't mind who wins. They just pretend. It really is a question that we should be asking ourselves. What is wrong with us? Or like we'll put it in Nigeria. Now who do us this thing? But we'll get there. We are hoping that solutions will come someday and we'll interrogate some of these steps that we need to take before we get to the solutions. Let me go to Angu right now. Angu, the public affairs analyst, but I know that you've had interactions with a lot of youths in your capacity as a special advisor to the governor on student affairs. You must have interacted with students so much. You must have interacted with youths so much. I don't know. Whenever there's an election, whenever we're talking about electing people, one of the paramount things is that this is what is going to define the future, which is especially for the youths who are coming up. But unfortunately, it's these same youths who are being used to truncate the process of election. They are the ones that are the talks. They are the ones that snatch the ballot boxes. They are the ones who cost mayhem in so many places and all that. And I'm just wondering, what is it that is lacking? Is it in the educational system or in the schools themselves that need to be addressed so that this youths will know their own worth beyond just being talks? Is there a problem that we are missing and that we're not looking at in your interaction with the students? What can you say about that? Why do they do what they do and what can be done to make sure it doesn't happen again? All right. Thank you very much. It's quite unfortunate that Nigeria is where we are today. And just like the last speaker said and postulated, it's worrisome that we are taking ourselves back into the day. The MPNDs were leaders conducted themselves as if they were the goers. And the last speaker said, look, maybe we just tie up and carry machete and go and look for a territory and conquer such a territory and become the lord or an emperor over such territory. Looking at the elections conducted so far, it's obvious that the processes that are throwing up so-called leaders in our nation, you know, fraudulent are not reflecting the wish of the Nigerian people. And to back to your question to say, look, it is the young people that most times are used to do ballot bus matching and you. But I want to say the question is not really the question of the young people because these young people are led like sheep to the slaughter. And at times they have nothing to do because those that have brought these young people to that place of them becoming used. It is the same political class that have refused to develop the nation, that have refused to give these young people opportunities to weather their lives. And for a number of them they see it as a means of survivor because poverty has been weaponized in Nigeria by our elected leaders. So you see that they hold money, they hold even opportunities, they hold even gifts and wait for a week to the election to become philanthropists. Some of the state governors they meet with elections, they don't know it motorbikes, they don't know cars, they give cash gifts. Why are they doing that? Because they know the people need it. They themselves have organized poverty and they now use it as a tool to hold wink, all inform the young people to become part of their demonic agenda to perpetuate themselves as wicked leaders of this country. And I would like to say enough is enough. Our young people need to wake up. Our young people need to begin to say look enough is enough. I'm not going to allow myself be a talk to any politician. And you are asking what is the problem? We have a citizen, a citizenry that is not informed, who had a citizenry that is not ready to engage. And I was talking to you know some elders recently, I was like look you people be quitted, this dozer kind of citizenry to us. If you people are fought for social justice, the way some of us are doing today, Nigeria will not be where it is today. We become so relaxed as young people, we don't even know how to demand for our rights. And that has been the problem. And the political class knowing it, the corrupt political class are when I say the political class, I don't mean all of the political class is corrupt. But the corrupt ones knowing that, knowing that this citizenry is not informed, this citizenry is lackadaisical or is unconcerned, they know that whatever they do they can go away with it. And that is a problem. And it is high time, I would like to speak to Nigeria, this is the only country we have, it is high time we begin to rise up and demand for social justice in this nation. Let our institutions be accountable to us. The last speaker said we are the employers of these institutions. We pay tax. One way or the other to keep these institutions flowing. The oil revenue that is used to run these institutions is right here, it's our patching money. So young people need to begin to ask questions about the system. Ask questions on how can the system work for us better? And by the time we begin to ask questions, nobody will take any young person for granted. So the young people need to awaken. We are sleeping, we are in slumber. Okay, okay, okay, let Eugene just add something there. I want to go to a benesab. But Eugene, just your thoughts now. Let me just jump in here because of what my brother just said. Number one, in our time, when we were in the embassy, we had just a circuit which had been in its library. Now we have Google in our hands. There's no kind of, we even had charging. So there's no kind of information you want to not have. In our time, I tell them, particularly this sudden grave, which we have called the dividends. I say you think that the democracy you're enjoying like it's just fell from heaven. People died. In case you have forgotten, let me remind you, MQA Biola, General Abacha, Fabiola's wife, and several others who are victims of the Sgt. Rogers and the death squad in Nigeria for this democracy. The likes of Temple was being published to tell them, I don't want to look at this behavior. They were on a guerilla publishing outfit. We had to look for them to read to to our little things. This democracy just didn't fall from heaven. It just didn't fall. Yes, and he's had done nothing that we regretted to say it. No, it's not true. Yes, it's not true. Remember Dr. Beko Ransom Kuti, Niger Medical Association. If I don't mention the Association, then you will have forgotten. You forgot that it still exists. The bank Beko and group made it almost like a civil society group. For every issue that affected society, they were on the streets. Is it Ghani fire? Even the Festus families and the vast majority are here. This is probably returning in this grave because that's not what we hoped Festus would turn out to be. So is it Ghani? Is it Fela? The songs were dead. They were all written. Is it Claudot? Is it Patrick Wilma? Is it Halal Spice? Is it Aishan Mouamed? These were all the Vikings and these were the people who were there in the lights of Shimole. They were playing with the military and forming labor movements. So everything is in your hand as an electronic gadget. All this information is that the people have refused to ask questions. So even in 2050, when they were saying they wanted food, I said, do you know the people you're voting for? What are you aspiring for? Look at what has happened in Lagos, man, because they said let's not do anything. A nice young man like Bank of W has become convicted. For you to have education, there's one of the streets. There's one that's academic. The antecedents of Bank of W have clearly been surprised. Everybody knows that. Why will he lose an election in his natural constancy? It is not our fault. The people, when you hear about their position, beats his chest as a monk crown. He's not sharing ice cream. He has a group of young men who are ready to bear arms. And I give them practical example. The amount of weapons in the system, if we had them back in the 80s, we would probably have had the democracies faster than now. In 1984, when a girl was killed in Zaire, all their female presidents ran away. The women, the girls, held the Guari administration down. The whole universities were shut down. The girls, not by the company secretary of Sky Band, the former company secretary, she led that movement. Nationwide, we didn't know where he came from. Then we didn't have GSS. We had my signature organization. Same thing. We became the SSS and became the SSS. The question here is, just like the way my brother ended, he was said that it's time for us to begin to ask questions. Where did we get this evil perception that professors will be the one who run elections? Is it every professor that is competent? But are they not supposed to be the eggheads that should know what they do? Because they say someone who is educated cannot be enslaved. And these same professors are the ones that are doing what they're doing. Where sorting has become institutionalized. Where we have situations that some professors, the things they claim are not true, where they find the lobby governors to be posted. Two years, three years before elections, governors ensured that a particular list of professors are posted in particular areas. It is time to have an independent network. And it must be subject to public scrutiny. From your experiences to how you conducted it. We must insist on it. It deserves a truth and reconciliation commission to be settled. So that people are held accountable. If you want to be a native doctor, because if you hold that position and you do not perform on it, or you are found liable, either your purchasing was overvalued, you cannot just be protected by the next administration. That all of this cannot happen if the people are not ready to hit the streets. You see why you should respect Zalaneski, the so-called comedian who has stood and faced a bully like Russia. You see what's happening in Paris. People for a slight reform for the population from 365 years to 35 years, people have been on the streets. See what's happening is that six weeks they've been on the streets. See what happened in Hong Kong. It's not that it's a straight and not $700 a week. And we're here forming, hoping for intergovernment on that. No, if you have decided to choose a path to pursue a bully. Okay, let me hear from Beniza as well. Beniza, you sit in council, UK and other global organizations. You also deal with the youths and all that. And if there is a rot, a correction has to start from somewhere. Is there hope that we can have a new breed of youths that will be asking the relevant questions? Because it's not just action all the time. When you ask the relevant questions, maybe you just get the right answers and then people will sit up. But what is that thing that is lacking? How can we cultivate this kind of youths that will be always scrutinizing what the government is doing and everybody who is holding a position of authority and all that. Not just rebelling all the time anyway. But how can we cultivate this youths that will be asking the relevant questions and make people sit up? That's the question I'm asking you, Beniza. Because you've had experience globally, you're sitting in council everywhere. And in fact, I know that you are sitting in the British Council, UK, Africa, New Narrative, youth agency, and your credentials are long. So let us try to have a peek into what we need to do to get things going differently from how it is going now. Yes. No, no, I totally agree with a lot of what one of our leaders in the social movement space, Mr. Eugenie Bells and what Honorable Angla said too. I agree with Mr. Eugenie that there's a lot of, there's a gap in historical education. In most of what I feel like I know today about Nigeria has been either from listening to people like him or attending events or googling. The fact that we miss history in our curriculum is one of the biggest, I think it's a crime that you don't teach the next generation what they should know about their past. And that's why you hear things like, oh, we've not had what Mr. Angla was saying earlier about previous generations not being active. I mean, you've had one of the most active women had started social movements as far back as 1929 where you had the Aba women's revolts up until the Egbalan women's revolts. So you've had women leading and you had young women in the SSUGs. I mean, most of the military administration, it was students, as Mr. Eugenie said, it was students that actually stood up to fight for democracy, students and civil society and various trade unions. So I think that it's a missing gap in education and not just education as intellectual education but even moral education. When you see the conversations that followed the election, especially in Lagos, most of the people who were saying, you know, you're not from Lagos, go to your state and vote, they were young people, right? So I think it's that lacking moral education where society is becoming so poor as where we accept anything, we're accepting, we're accepting Yahoo Boys, we feel like it's okay for a boy to scam people and make money online and bring it to his family and the parents collect it, right? We're accepting that it's okay for a girl to sleep around as far as she's not getting pregnant, as far as she's getting her grades higher, you know, we feel like it's fine. So I think it's that moral education that is something that is missing. As for how I think we can resolve it, I mean, this is an existential question, right? But I think this is one of the reasons why we set up policy shapers. We set up policy shapers in the sense because we see that democracy needs to go beyond the power. In Nigeria, there's a lot of focus on the election time and, you know, people almost sleep and wake up and it's two months to the election to get your PVC, to get your PVC, you got to vote. They don't care what has happened with the budget over the past four years. They don't care what has happened with appointments. They don't care who has solved what problems it is. So I think that it's ensuring that people are able to engage in democracy beyond the ballot, right? Let's even say that all of this happens, the court cases happen, nothing changes and we're left with the details that we have currently. How do we even begin to engage them on the day to day, right? How do we begin to question them? And if we even need to hit the streets, it wouldn't even just be about the issues like the way they voted. It wouldn't be about basic issues like, why are they not removing subsidy yet? Why subsidy is still there now? They say subsidy should be taken away and it's still there. Or why is the education budget at five percent? Over the past 10 years, we've not spent more than eight percent of our national budget on education. We want to build the smartest young people in the world and you cannot invest in their human capital development. So that's something you should hit the streets for. Or why is security architecture struggling? You have the police, you have all these arms who are struggling for so many years. Funding is low. Even when there's funding, there's low stewardship. And I agree with Mr. Eugene very well when he says academia might not even be the solution to our electoral problems. Look at academia. Every time Asub goes on strike, right? And when they go on strike, there's money released. Has there been any stewardship for that money over the past how many years, right? We just hear that, oh, there's extra money released to universities. Universities do not produce financial reports. We don't know what is spent. We don't know where funding is coming from. You know, they just keep asking for more money over and over and over again. So I think it needs more of a concerted effort and to get the young people who will begin to ask questions, we need to look at our education cycle, especially in moral education. And we need to find ways to engage young people. And this is a civil society organization. Media, engage young people beyond just election season. You know how the media is now at a height for election conversation. Very soon it will become big brother in Nigeria, football, you know, everything just dies down. Everything just follows a call. Everything dies down. How do we keep the conversation going every day? How do we ensure that people ask the right questions and the media is prompting those questions in their minds to ensure that those issues of governance remain at the top of young people's minds? I think that's the way we can solve this problem. Okay, let me come to Angu. Maybe it's a bit of a digression, but it will go to the same place because we've talked about poverty and some of the things are blamed on poverty, especially when the youths take up arms and we talk about poverty being weaponized and all that. Is the society really that bad that you have to arm yourself and do wrong before you can make a living? For instance, you are a young man. You are a crypto enthusiast, which means you know that there are other avenues to make money. Does it need to be, or do you need to be a superpower or a Superman or a superhero before you can have a stream of income that you don't really have to rely on doing wrong in the society? Can you take the question again? Do you really think it's a matter of poverty that makes the youths do what they do? Because you, I said that you are a crypto enthusiast, isn't it? Which means there are opportunities in our society. What is it that is so difficult that these youths cannot go into these other forms of money making except they take arms and fight for politicians? Why should it always be blamed on poverty when there are other opportunities? Or do they need extra powers to be able to do that? Do you want me to rephrase again? Hello, Angu. Yes. Thank you very much for that. There are several opportunities that our young people can enhance in order to... Hello, Angu. Is it that we've lost the audio or something? Okay, Angu is gone as it is. We're hoping that he can rejoin us in the course of this discussion. But in the meantime, we're still here with Beniza Wikina who has found our policy shapers and Eugene Abel's Executive Director, the Extra Step Initiative. We just said Angu's audio. We've lost Angu's audio. He's Honorable Angu Ongu, a public affairs analyst. But we'll just take a short break now and return to continue with the discussion. Gentlemen, don't go away. And those of you watching us, please stay tuned. It's still by about 2023 and we have a Beniza Wikina found our policy shapers, Eugene Abel's Executive Director, the Extra Step Initiative, an Honorable Angu Ongu, a public affairs analyst. We're talking about our Nigeria because whatever happened on the 25th of February and last Saturday, we have a lot of things to talk about. A lot of things to talk beyond this season, beyond even May 29 and all that. So it's better to start with the small steps now and begin to exhume some of the things that we need to address so that they do not fester in our community and make Nigeria what we don't want it to be. It's already what we don't want it to be, but it shouldn't be worse than how it is right now. So let me begin with you, come back rather to you, Eugene. We need to start interrogating this kind of things. We need to start setting an agenda for us, the people, because you did mention that we are just docile. We are just sitting back and relaxed and we're not doing enough. We're not asking the right questions. From here on out, what are those things that the citizens need to start doing if they are not doing already or if they are doing it and they are not doing it enough? What are those things that we need to start doing now to make sure that, well, the deed has been done. Whoever wins has won and no matter the outcome of the litigations that are flying up and down, we have a Nigeria to protect. But what are the things that we can do to change the narrative from just being, you have won, do whatever you like to do, and another four years we start scrambling to see how we can elect somebody else. So tell us some of these things that we need to be doing as citizens. Yeah, in my last TED talk, TED talks about what I said, that advocacy in the title which dealt public institutions amounts to nothing. And public institutions will not become strong except the people man and his system needs. Now, when these elections were to start, we accessed the initiative, we said that it is not a sprint, just like my Beniza mentioned earlier on. It's a marathon. So why we want to advocate for a solution? Because this conversation will make no meaning if we don't recommend ways or... I am using this opportunity to call on every aggrieved person and every successful person that whoever won the elections, please do not blame Palatino. Do not blame Peter before losing. Blame the institutions and those given responsibilities to them. Now they're pointing in a direction to the judiciary. We were here, a certain governor, build houses for special forces. We're here, some have been made live ventures without thinking courts. So this is when the marathon begins. We all must get interested in the cases. The day of court sitting, we all go to court so that they know and they feel you. They feel like a bad body or an everything. They'll spell it. They'll see the pressure. We must be interested for those who won. Yeah, so that you don't lose your money. For those who lost, so that you can redeem it. Even if you don't redeem it, you are sure that certain things are done properly. The election process is not entirely a civil one. When there are crimes that have been committed, if there are evidence of contracts being inflated for an electoral matter, people, there are lots of young lawyers that can carry a class action and demand the minimum place code of conduct against those professors. Yes, let's put, this is the time. Let us use the state institutions that we must come out of our comfort zones. And that's your, you went to, you schooled in England, you have the law to do your call to pass. Call to court. That's how they did it in the past. Don't look for support. Go to court and challenge it. Let them have two million cases. Every day that the major political actors sit in your area, they all go there. We go to court. We get involved. We begin to learn processes. Right now I'm a bathroom lawyer. I can speak as much as I love. I can't spend the court to spend your time here. But like, I can have a comfortable conversation with you because I'm taking time to read the things that concern me. So this is where we need to start from. There's an examination right now before us. And that examination is where all those who want are pointing to, all those who committed crimes are pointing to, say, go to court. Let all of us go to court. And let us see that when they go to seat, they see 3,000, 4,000 people standing outside, not hired crowds. Then they will begin. Of care. Then the young people that we think are not organized are the people who make up Black acts. Call those groups there. Icelanders. They are different in different parts of the country. Nassarawah marries, Zanfarah brigades. They are all called groups. And they have a command and control pattern. And they have people, they obey orders, they take orders. They have intelligence units. All the same, those resources now apply them to put pressure on the system. I'm not saying it should be anybody. I'm saying you can retrieve information which you can feed to people because you have networks. That man who is your being loyal to is ensuring that you remain in contact to have confidence so that he will be loyal to him. So he gives you a handout and you guys will like a 2,000 camry and you come and post it on Facebook or Instagram and say, oh, praise the Lord, this man has done well. Is your money? According to my brother, 100% they come and fill out a when election comes. So this exam is before us now. Let every obiget, every articulated, every bat, let us all go to court so that the Supreme Court parties and the lawyers know that we are all interested, we are sitting with you, sharing it publicly and hashtagging the judicial players all over the world. Has he not worried you people that every obiget in his past session they will have a party, a conference that they spend over a billion naira. But it takes politicians to them to exploit aspects of the Constitution that not forces us to run to the National Assembly. We didn't know that you didn't need a certificate to be President of Nigeria. Did we know? We didn't know. Every exam position sits. Why don't the exam position create sessions? We are chapters of the Constitution at home to shreds, groups of study groups then and it is debated. May I remind all of us here, some of you were not here then. When we back it up to proper power, he wanted to take the IMF when I applied austerity measures and those particular adjustments. And the students resisted him. He said okay, there was not a national debate all over Nigeria. There were a lot in Ajeguli in just every gap people were discussing. The Brenton Woods Association, we all now had to learn about them, like Mullbank. They had operated everybody because everybody wanted to sound intelligent. So you had to read about this organization. Who are they giving loans to? What have they done to them? The primary example was Brazil because they were so indebted. But they were able to translate their debt into industrial investments. So when they found oil, they were taking it to the next level. So let me now take everybody's time. There's an example for us. I'm only able to speak. Okay, wise words. Let me just take very briefly from Beniza and Angu. Just very briefly because we have run out of time. So let me begin with you Beniza. A final word to especially the youths because they are the leaders of now not just tomorrow but from now. Yes, no, no. I support everything that Gina has said around ensuring that we begin from now, not saying later from the court cases, ensuring in fact there's a petition currently on a chain.org platform that's asking that the court sessions would be televised or at least be given some bit of press coverage so that there's a daily press following so that people can know what's happening today, what's happening tomorrow, who is coming in with the next witness and everything. And I think if we're able to push that through and the Supreme Court agrees to that, that would be a huge step in the right direction where people can begin to follow that proceeding. The next thing is I think that we need to begin to challenge so if we want to have the politics of ideas I think it's for young people to also begin to bring the ideas to solve the various cycles. So sometime last year we organized something called the Niger policy hackathon. The Niger policy hackathon was a 48 hour session was virtually on Zoom. It brought close to 200 young people across Nigeria together from Zafar, Imor, Abia, everywhere to think of the various issues that space young people, unemployment, education, insecurity, and how would they, if they were policy makers, solve those issues. This was policy shapers organized this for young people and it was interesting. All the young people formed various groups, they broke into various thematic groups, worked virtually raising WhatsApp and Zoom and just communicating.