 All right, thanks Tracy. Yeah All right, so welcome everybody to another edition of the hyperledger technical steering committee This meeting along with our other technical working group meetings And of course all of our coding projects are welcome to everybody's contribution whether you are a member or not And you can see from our handy slide here that not only are you welcome? But we have a code of conduct that you can reference that you're not sure how to interact in these meetings So moving right into the agenda, I think we've got a few meaty topics to go through today We're going to Headed Sorry was somebody asking a question Okay, little background noise So we're going to look at the revised supply chain proposal. We have a new proposal for a technical working group in India a A update from the labs and I think we also have some items to discuss about Composer and how that sits in our project lifecycle right now. Just checking the invite tease here to see who we've got on looks like We probably have the presenters then for the supply chain work They grab that link And while you're doing that Dan, I'll just go through these reminders very quickly APAC hackfest we're finalizing on the venue. So we should have the details coming very soon Next week is our hyperledger global forum. If you haven't registered yet. You still have time December 17th through January 2nd. We will have limited it support from the Linux Foundation as well as other Linux Foundation staff members We still have the community survey out there. We've got some good feedback and input already on that And so we'll be looking to get that out there fairly soon. So if you haven't provided your input yet, please do so and We do have a number of meetings that we've canceled due to global forum and the holidays So it looks like our next meeting is not until January 10th Yeah, thanks for I was going to skip over those reminders So yeah, the community survey that's something that I haven't had a chance to go take a look at yet and provide feedback So just echo Tracy's request for everybody to go take a look at that. That's one of the One of the main ways of not the only way we have of measuring to know how we're doing with with our community health in Objective or countable way So I think Mick said this on email or chat or something, but should we have a two-hour meeting on the 10th? That looks like a really long list because there's no way we're getting that done in an hour The other option that we have there is to review offline the updates and look to prioritize any of that warrants Real-time discussion do people have a preference for one way or the other there Is there a reason why we can't do both if we can set aside the the two hours Just make sure we have the block time try to do as much as we can offline and then resolve it And if we don't need the two hours, I'd be happy to get the hour back, but That that list just looks long. Yeah, I think that sounds like a reason Can we do it for 90 minutes You can also use community backup three which I don't think anything else uses My concern was more around commitments that others For instance the indie the main indie development call starts immediately following the technical steering committee call on on this day on Thursday Can we start earlier? I think I heard a growth right after that suggestion Yeah, I mean I thought I could go an hour earlier. I do have other calls but Yeah, I So but I just want to make sure that we give an appropriate amount of time for the updates That's that's my biggest issue. Yeah, not that we ever extend our conversations or anything. Yeah, we never do All right, why don't we why don't we try out? I mean, I mean if if if we are really pressed for time, what's the outlook for the following week? We have just one give me Tracy probably somebody Yeah, I'm just opening up the calendar Chris in one moment here Okay, so the the following week the only thing that we have on the calendar is a sawtooth update Okay. Yeah, maybe that's good recommendation. We can you can push back Move fabric off to the 17th And leave the ones that we're supposed to be due this year out there That sounds like a good suggestion to me. I could like a little bit Okay, I'll update the calendar to reflect that then all right. Thanks, Tracy. Yeah Okay, great, and then I'm also reminded that we've got one other announcement the sawtooth 1.1 has been released today And I think there should be a blog post up and some announcements Very nice congrats Thank you. All right, and now I think we're through all of those updates that I was inadvertently skipping over there And we can head into the supply chain Revisions so when we met last time there were three classes of Comments that came back one was about charter the second was about the specificity of the proposal And then the third was about cross-platform implications And so to the first we've we've gone to the board and we've asked that they Create some guidelines so that it's easier for future projects that might move up into Things that could be deemed application level to give us some guidance on what the board doesn't doesn't want to see In the near term the board is supportive and they'll be issuing guidelines for future proposals sometime in the near future To the specificity feedback I've already put the link into the Rocket chat window so you can access the proposal through there. That's been substantially updated with feedback from a variety of TSC members and other folks in the community And so all of that outstanding feedback has been Resolved and I'll walk you us through this briefly here So in the abstract we kind of set out right away now that the the goal of this project is to Develop things essentially to sign it behind a web assembly interface and That is one of the things that helps facilitate Future cross-platform adoption Everything is intended to Be behind that that web assembly and so any platform that were to adopt what assembly would be able to make use of artifacts from this project and The goals have also been a little bit more clear where there was an overloaded term of platform For this proposal in the past. We've we've made that a little bit more specific to say that the goal This is to create libraries data models and then an SDK that helps you make use of those and this is all in an effort to help Help developers accelerate their development for supply chain related applications And that's more or less also reflected in the motivation section there that The initial experiences that You know card deal shared when they first presented this proposal was Something of when when developers first come to our platforms They're provided with some fairly low-level interfaces and those are great for the flexibility of the platforms and in allowing you to use these platforms in a whole variety of ways but It does put an onus on the user to develop quite a bit of ground before they actually get to their domain area So this proposal is meant to shorten that that effort for people getting into the supply chain space The context has been updated with some feedback from bin we moved some of the material out of there that was more Scoping solution related and I think I'll probably not read that stuff out loud But skipping down to the diagram that you'll see in the beginning of The solution section we'll hit that and then jump back up to the scope So there again, you can see in the the middle elliptical box there the the sort of main components of the main deliverables of the proposal hit on things like a universal client this pike components and The the data standards that we'll be working with and then those are exploded in more detail In text below in in the bullets so The sort of things that we need to develop the the higher level data models are first built out in those primitives Lane just some very basic groundwork there and then expanding more into The the higher level primitives that that are required Identity models the universal client and so forth so That client for example is where you know regardless of what you might be moving around in a track and trace example I really just need to change the labels on something you need to create a new user interface each time So with that as context then sort of popping back up here to the scope section It might be a little easier to understand what what these things had meant Where we've got three sections here with a scope one is these higher level abstractions just to make it easier to do very basic things with a system The second is a clarification that we're really only interested in the DLT aspects of a supply chain Solution area and we're not looking at things that that would be say Integration to back-end legacy systems a variety of things that would be necessary for a real end-to-end solution This is instead really more meant to help again facilitate or accelerate the development of the DLT portions And then finally the the compositions Which is for each one of these? These modules if they were to be developed in isolation, they might not necessarily work together So these components are all going to be able to speak the same language In terms of interfaces and data so that they can actually work in a cohesive way and they cannot put some additional on us on developers trying to adopt these technologies and We've also added a frequently asked questions section near the end of the document and You'll see that that is inclusive of everything in including The the ever-present dunking booth question So with that that is I think as concise of a way as I can to Express all of the revisions that have taken place over the last several weeks And interaction with people who had provided direct feedback Hey, Dan, this is Brian. There's Firstly, I just want to echo Dan's comment that at the governing board. We are talking about how to provide Better guidance to the TSE for figuring out what stuff is in scope and out of scope And that the very general consensus is that this project is within whatever scope. We're gonna come up with they didn't want to Leap ahead and say this is you know explicitly that this is fine They wanted to be able to rationalize from a framework and then say okay, and then based on the framework. This looks great Obviously Working on things like that and getting getting parties to agree takes time So apologies about that those things we could have done perhaps before before this but it is getting done It's looking very good. I think it's gonna give us a pretty You know TSE some very clear guidance. So be on the watch out for that, but I think I That's that's that's progressing nicely And I do hate to sound like a broken record and sound like I'm criticizing it on the least technical thing possible But but words words and names matter, right? And I've kind of said from from the very beginning. I think even before this proposal was made It needs a different name and I think some of the concern and teeth gnashing over this has been partly because Either calling it sauteed supply chain or the supply chain project Kind of led people to a dark place sometimes on this And and this is where I you know, I just I have to make a vote for that statement for having generic actually not overly generic but but but like Abstract goofy if even if that Names is actually a really powerful thing And burrow was really a good name. Ursa was really a good name I'd like us to find before this goes much further shortly before it gets approved a name that is You know, it can be related to supply chains commerce, you know marketplaces, whatever you want to you know do it But but let's find something that is equally abstract equally kind of nerdy but but much less Either specific than saw to supply chain, especially since there's that goal of hitting Yeah, sorry, I didn't update the the file name I guess of the Google doc, but The the proposers have given it a more abstract name within the document So yeah, this this wouldn't be named hyper ledger or supply chain proposal I Can try to update that Live here, so the the name that the With a grid whether grid meets that or not, I think is something actually the TSA should think about You know grid grid isn't Yeah, that's why I have an issue with that name, but Yeah, I think that the that the name was meant Yeah, I think actually, you know, I I'm actually sort of regretting using fabric for fabric because it's such a generic term and actually doing a Google search doesn't necessarily Help you exactly, but we should definitely do some sort of a you know have the maybe the marketing committee could help facilitate a name search And trademark search and so forth because Well, we always do that with the marketing committee always does try to You know take a proposing like we did with our stuff and just make sure there isn't an obvious conflict Actually, where there was like another crypto library that was using the word or stuff But but we looked at all that and kind of decided it wasn't it wasn't an issue But we do that what what you don't really want is to depend upon the marketing committee to come up with a name Like I like the fact that the backstory behind burrow is that you know several of the Monax people are Fans of small little rodents large rodents, sorry You know like like some sort of cute backstories fine, but it's still Yeah, I would rather have that come from the developers. They don't feel like they're being overruled or that they yeah Yeah, no, I I get it I'm just saying using a generic term like grid or fabric or something is You know, it doesn't help the marketing part is all I'm saying Something that you know when you Google it, it's always gonna pop to the top and your SEO is gonna be Beyond the the name and again, I agree with with Brian on the thought around the name But I'm still struggling with how this is really I mean I Get that it could be right But I think then the the other question that we have to ask ourselves is is this really a generic thing, right? Is this Is this really? Is this really technology that you know, I Understand it's not intentionally designed to prevent and so forth, but How easily do we really expect that this could be consumed by anything other than sawtooth? Well, I think we've heard from a couple of platforms that they are interested in adopting web assembly Yes, that's I'm That's that's correct, right, but that isn't How that how that happens and I think we still have some work to do to figure out what that looks like and how it works and so forth I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. Is it? What those So I would think that it's not a foregone conclusion But in terms of being able to do privacy management on passing assets between parties who participate in the chain The fundamental pieces there are barely generic We're I'm very hopeful that the work we're doing in Hyperledger Ursa will be an important support for some of the things that this toolkit will be able to consume and How the identifiers are managed in terms of the transaction set are something that I think will be applicable across chains now The details of how you would integrate the transaction family or the transaction set into either a fabric Framework or a sawtooth framework is something I think the maintainers of both those platforms would have to work out between each other Yeah, I think just for my two cents I think this is is good because it's sort of shooting where the puck is going in many ways So at least in the public blockchain space the you know Ethereum's going to a form of WebAssembly Polkadot is going to a WebAssembly EOS is WebAssembly DFINITY is WebAssembly. So I think Trying to say it's not yet well specified enough I mean if this was the EVM maybe it'd be a little bit clear But you know, we don't want to be waiting for others to innovate before right But we're they okay. I Guess I agree with that but by the same token now we're already at the application layer and we haven't sorted out yet What the API's are right? This is well One team has right and this was exactly I get it. I get it. That's exactly my point one team has Right and that's how it was for Ethereum too. So I don't know, you know, we're not gonna get the whole you now You're talking about standardization right as standardization is a pretty requisite before well But that was a lot of what this was supposed to all be about was that okay? Yeah, there are standards for purchase order and invoice and so forth out there And now we're gonna take those and and sort of codify those in software Which is good. All right, but it's That's the point of the incubating project goes to work that out Um This is certainly where we were with with it's kind of a cart before the horse is where I'm getting at and it's also specific to Look, I would say Chris I would say, you know They've they've there's been enough pre-work done ahead of time to have some idea what the shape of those API's are and certainly the process of Going through incubation to full proposal is about generalizing and hardening those API's So and I will say, you know, I've I've been I've pushed back pretty hard on those proposals on past meetings and I'm much happier with the current state of it as far as sort of the Specificity of what's being built its context and what's just being constructed as well. So From my side Kudos to Dan and the rest of the team for for making responses in the proposal for so Hi, there are people able able to hear me. I think I've had some audio issues We can now Great. Yeah, so I think a link comment to what Chris is making of first of all I'm the shape of the proposal is much clearer to me So I've got quite pleased with how that looks give me more idea of what what isn't Is not in scope and hopefully that become clear as code flows in Currently it talks about in terms of Dependencies for cross platform stuff. It talks specifically about saber and I think this is linked to what sort of Chris saying so that I'm wondering Whether it would actually be requiring favor support, which may include additional shims that are going to be more coupled to sawtooth so for example if I was going to Add a go Wagon wasm support. I wonder how much work there would be To get that to work. So I think there is there is like a kind of a bi layer for how you do the wasm that is relevant here and Just wonder if there's any thoughts on on how that could be pulled out so that it's not too coupled to Sort of maybe I'm thinking of what of Saber in the wrong way Yeah, I think one reason to pull this into a project like this and not have it grow Within sawtooth is that it creates the space for that to happen. I think there'd be a lot of Probably just inadvertent bias that would go in if it wasn't a separate project and some of the guys that Work more on the Saber side could chime in about anything specific there but I think that the the high level message or the high level view that I have on on this area is that As a separate project, it's going to have a more independent view Yeah, so Tributors as well that they don't necessarily Have that that higher history with the other project from a from a Saber perspective Like we really want that to grow That that's going to depend on kind of our Ability with it within that component to Kind of grow it beyond sawtooth It already supports the sawtooth API and stuff like that, which is this super robust at this point Which is the same same API as transaction family so that that's not That's not a new interface that's it's been a stable interface for over a year now The the reason we're we're tardy targeting that Is because we want on-chain deployments and we like the model In terms of supporting Fabric and maybe maybe other DLT is that might get added to hyperledger later I kind of flip it around from the viewpoint of this project and and look at it less from from Fabric consume this and more from like what's interesting from the supply chain project To use as a tool And so sawtooth From this project's perspective plays a very kind of specific role in Providing that lower level distributed database Functionality, but like when we're talking about This project it's It's kind of secondary what The the underlying tech is because we're we're Removed from sawtooth With respect to this project right it's not part of sawtooth sawtooth as a dependency Initially because that's what saver. That's what supports saver or that's the one saver supports and perhaps like I could ask it I Smaller more specific question just about So if if say in borough, I didn't want to support saver And the reason for that is kind of attached to this single process thing the thing that I was thinking of was Having an a wasm interpreter So if you have a wasm interpreter, but not saver I'm wondering what the gap would be to get the the wasm smart contracts that are going to be part of The supply chain project to run on a on a straight interpreter. Is it that it's core like what savers like doing is You know state changes, you know gets that state stuff like that so as long as as That that's kind of the Problem that we're trying to solve with saver like we can do whatever we we Whatever we want so I Think And that's kind of true of of that Application API in general like it's really get inset State values where we're like the keys from a solid-tooth perspective our Merkel addresses, but in a more abstract Way it's just key value pairs and so it's not it's not incredibly difficult to see You know you using the the load like the non SDK Like a bi layer. I Guess I would I guess I would advocate like if we were going to add go support that we just add a go SDK But in terms of like the flexibility there I think it's it's pretty open it's just Who we can get involved and Stuff like that in terms of direction Okay So Heart I know that you had some some earlier feedback on specificity and I just wanted to double-check that that's been satisfied or Yeah, so I It essentially has been Going back over this You know For my perspective this is kind of somewhere in between composer and Indian scope if that makes sense to people So so yeah And thanks for thanks for the updates to the proposal That that really cleared up what was going on Okay, good Are we to the point where we can take a vote on this I mean, I know we've discussed over the pretty long period of time at this point That's true. I think it has been about six weeks at this point So yeah, I had a quick question is is the architecture such that I Mean right now. I know it's written to work with sawtooth, but if you know You wanted to use borough or something else is the architecture Design that You know, there's a there's a layer in there that easily slides in someone can write the api's for borough Or if fabric gets a wasm, you know for fabric and it just slides in or does the whole to support another platform? Does it require like a major rewrite? Right, yeah, so I think that's what was being discussed there with a lot of that the Saber discussion So Saber is a web assembly interpreter. So the the intent is that that the Code goes through the web assembly interpreter. So so long as there's an interpreter there that other platforms would be able to pick it up and then the question would be You know How hard is it to make a shim for Saber to couple with another platform and What that sounds like it amounts to is is basically all of these platforms have something like three operations. It's it's Get and set and some sort of registration API so That would be roughly the level of effort there is is to get another web assembly Interpreter that they can call through to those getting sets for the platform Thank you. All right. Thanks Mark So, yeah, why don't we go ahead and move to a vote now and that's a vote with this name grid It's not with a different name Or is that still something with the caveat that the name has to change? Can we if we vote can we vote on the On the the naming going through the marketing committee, right, right? I don't think we've ever voted on a game before with Quilt I think we voted with no name. So yeah Okay, all right, so all those favor Hyperledger grid or whatever it becomes named based on marketing committee Input say I Anybody abstaining anybody opposed I think I'm gonna I'm gonna abstain Okay Anybody opposed Okay, so not unanimous, but definitely sounds like we do have approval for this to move forward All right. Well, congratulations to the sponsors on that Looking forward to that project getting underway All right, the next Media thing we have to discuss here is we've got a few people that are joining us from a pack time zones to talk about a New technical working group So I'd like us to go and hit that and then if we've got Time at the end of the agenda because we also haven't a labs update We should have a little discussion about the composer status But since we've got people joining from an uncomfortable time zone, I'd like to give jump right into that technical working group India proposal Do we have Julian on the line. Yes, I'm here Great. Are you ready to introduce us to this idea? Okay? Definitely. So I've been asking a little bit of background to why we are proposing this Technical working group of India So what started our thoughts for an Indian technical working group is that our our meet-up groups in India We're requesting assistance with connecting with other meet-up groups in other cities around India Basically, the developer community India wants a way to more easily connect communicate support and collaborate With each other across India in that time zone. I think part of the reason for this is the challenging time zone difference I think it would greatly benefit the Indian developer community to be able to connect with each other and have a technical working group India support during their business day This has worked very well with the technical working group in China Which is acted as a bridge between the community in China and the technical steering committee Also, as you know India has one of the largest developer communities in the world And they really want to and I speak to them on a daily basis pretty well to get more involved in the hyper ledger community and projects This technical working group of India I think would be a great way to help nurture Encourage train India's developer community and get them involved with contributions to you know the hyper ledger projects This has worked very well in China with increased contributions and a great ecosystem here Where I am today and by walk our power can attest to that Having said that I think so that that's that's the background I would now like to introduce you to Amal from Intel India who has very kindly taken The proposal for the chair and he will now take you through the proposal Amal Thanks Julian for that and hello everyone. I'm Amal and I would like to walk you through the The proposal for the technical working group Before we can Get started with this. I'd just like to say a few things about what I've been observing in India with respect to blockchain There is there is a tremendous amount of Curiosity and enthusiasm about blockchain over here. We have a huge developer base and We have a lot of folks Who want to contribute who want to learn more about blockchain more about hyper ledger, but don't really know how to India has long been Regarded as the global back office where a lot of projects get outsourced to But there's also a very good pool of technical talent and now with blockchain and in particular and and AI as well the Indian companies see a real way to leapfrog of The value chain and we recognize as contributors other than just just someone who will execute a project and so there's a real hunger to make a difference and to be recognized and and just Do something different from what's been done, but no one knows how to do it many folks a lot of companies Keep asking hey, can you tell us how to get involved in solar in hyper ledger in sort with or fabric or or whatever it is and And and it this is repeated across the board across every city that and and pretty much every company that we talk to so when This idea came up. I Was really thrilled and I jumped at this because I think this would be a great umbrella and a great effort to kind of Channel everyone's Efforts in a in a more constructive way towards the growing the the developer community and growing more contributions towards towards hyper ledger So I Just like to walk you very briefly through the the proposal With the scope of this is is basically for growing the developer community in India There are many questions that new users have There is a lot of support that is that that people want They don't know how to how to get involved in hyper ledger how to contribute how to Where to go for help how to where to connect for tutorials and training etc. So this would be the umbrella for for just Just helping out with With those issues with with helping out with the collaboration and technical exchanges and tutorials, etc We also want to give exposure to the the hyper ledger projects and the development initiatives on hyper ledger and and also act as Provide a bridge or a proxy to the the global hyper ledger working groups that That are active given the time differences many many developers find it very difficult to connect So we are hoping that with with this you'll be able to give a graph is a bridge or a property to those and and drive more contributions, so So some of the work products that that we are hoping that we can get started with is to To help promote the adoption of hyper ledger products projects and To the promote technical exchange and collaboration among them want to Guide and drive involvement in in hyper ledger projects You want to make sure we encourage code contributions? We want to make sure there are tutorials that are provided if there are project proposals that that someone comes up with we'd like to act as a mentor and Take them through the or help them through the process at the technical Steering committee We also want to organize events like hackathons and hackfest and meetups etc. And Also education and training events for hyper ledger projects We want to proxy meeting for the various technical working groups in a geo-friendly time so not everyone is able to attend at At the times when these meetings happen, so maybe we could nominate one or two volunteers to go attend those meetings and report back and And also contribute on behalf of the Indian members and Finally just just provide a Forum for doing technical communications and and an idea exchange So we don't have any specific Working groups that we will form right now probably the meetups and hackfest is is what we get started with immediately but once the group forms we'll We decide which is that working groups to form within within that and we've got in in the last one week we've got about 30 plus people who are interested in Joining and I'm sure once we announce it we get on small I personally know there are a lot of a lot of folks who are interested in Joining hyper ledger and working with hyper ledger. So there's no short take of interest people in in this so I know that hyper ledger indie has a couple of core maintainers that are out of India I'm guessing that that's probably the case for some of the other projects as well Do you have any ideas or Strategy for trying to incorporate some of the existing efforts and and onboarding, you know Contributors to the project. I know that's one of the questions that the China working group has been thinking about a lot lately Yeah, I mean we'd love to have contributors from the from all the various project out there so that So that they can then go go out and and enable Or spread the word provide education and then enable more contributions towards those projects I don't have a specific proposal on how to do that if you have any I'd be I'd be very happy to care about that and I'll also be setting up a meeting with Baha to to get some some weekend from him on how best to Go go ahead with With the working group Yeah, that's a great idea. I'd like you suggested that Nate So, yeah, it should be pretty straightforward. You get core contributors from from each of the hyper ledger projects Integrated in here and using sure David and Julian and so forth can can help facilitate that And just like with the existing technical working group China I I you know, I think it's important to note that I guess it's also worth reiterating that I such a such a local working group a regional working group is not intended to be a VPN Into the the larger community or to insert itself, you know in every interaction in fact if Ideally, you know, we've got individuals both in China and in India engage directly on project mailing lists and working groups And and all that kind of thing, but it's intended to be a local assistant, right? And and even though the language isn't as big an issue here as it is in China or the great firewall You know, which is the two things that really drove the China working group. I think here in India Just the culture there is that and which is not untrue elsewhere the local face-to-face engagement you know local events And and the time zone thing is just much bigger than we might think that it would be You know speak to the need for or the benefits that could be provided by a group like this As long as the group knows that its job is to really, you know upgrade And encourage developers to engage the global community whenever appropriate We don't want to bypass any of the Any of the projects we also don't want to make sure that we act as the gatekeepers for any of these But it is at the same time true that many of the developers are not able to Participate in in the project because of the time zone differences and In instances where there is a significant amount of people who are facing this issue it might be beneficial to have some kind of a To a point maybe a volunteer representative who would attend those meetings and really back the minute We'll figure out how best to get that done, but you're right Brian. We don't want to Act as a weekend for everything that goes on at hyper like us Amul, I have a Comment because they are my name is blip in Barazan And I'm listed as one of the interesting parties Interested parties in the India working group. I'm a little concerned that there is no real gender diversity in the interest party list which I mean, I'm not saying that You know, that'll continue, but hopefully we'll be able to reach out to to across the gender divide to drive more You know participation Absolutely absolutely and as we see in slide number two of the Presentation on the screen all our welcome we would we would definitely do our part and in Making a more balanced set of contributors Hi, hi, I'm Salona here I'm looking at some of this and I'm new so forgive me In regards to the technical working groups and the scope of it There was a lot of different things that were talked about in there that should possibly be integrated in With the community architects team and I was wondering what the paths for that would look like And how is that normally handled in the China working group for some of those pieces? Do you want to take that so the the question So the question is how the working group connected to the architecture working group Well, the the community architects here at hyper ledger We have to run a lot of different things. We do a lot of the different logistics things of that nature And I don't see clear boundaries being expressed in regards to those pieces And I'm not quite sure how that works with the china group as well And so I was wondering how that works out for example We do have a codifon, you know, we do have a hackathon program We do have the ambassador program We have all these other different programs that we're working on right now that i'm trying to get some clarity on myself within our group But I noticed that when he was listing off all the different things for the ended proposal There was significant overlap And so I wanted to get a little bit of clarity in regards to that like what does that look like and how does that normally handled Oh, yeah, um, actually the purpose of the local working group. It's quite We're aligned with the global community. So Like these activities from the architecture and those investor program We will have to promote those grant programs and when the local developers meet at the technology challenges We cannot resolve that we Okay, you actually I lost you for a bit there. Um Yes Okay, sorry, maybe my connection So, I mean, uh, we uh in the local working group We have promoted the Events from the global community include from the investor program and also the academic team and Certainly if we our local users they meet these technical changes if we cannot resolve them ourselves we also refer them to the community architects like Tracy and our way and also Yeah, we will we work as a bridge Is that answering your question? That that's part of it. I was just wondering what the clear pathway is for that because I haven't seen one yet and You know what when when is the things when you come in and check in One of the things that we help cross promote because right now I'm trying to make sure that all of our teams are more integrated For example, when a release is happening. We're getting involved with pr ahead of time When you know different things are happening We need to check in with a lot of other different departments and I'm wondering What the normal path is for these work groups to do so Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, we are trying to enhance our p i and the marketing efforts You know, uh, in china most of the people are using the wechat And we have started some official account in the wechat channel And usually we have published the weekly news Like from the global committee including the Global forum and the meetups and also these programs Right, but one of the things we do for pr for example here Is we do a lot of technical reviews. We make sure that things are accurate So that if anything goes out with hyper ledger on it, we've made sure that it's correct And that that's Do you see what I'm saying? And so I'm just wondering what that path looks like for y'all I think this is julian here. So so The the technical working group works with my team here in so we work with the the linux foundation team here So we work with a pr all the pr that goes out and we check those through us We also have scott who and who we talk with tracy and rye on a regular basis On some of the activities that you're talking about so we have coordinate back to your team So julian are you saying that you would do the same for india and that we would have That's what I could do for india as well. Yeah, I was thinking I would probably maybe on the core At the moment scott's on the call in china because of the language But yeah, potentially I could be on the call with uh with them all And see how we coordinate, but then we can work out that now together Yes, and I would like to talk about that further because I haven't seen things being very codified in regards to that It's a little bit haphazard in regards to when things get thrown over to the to the wall over the wall to the team And we need to plan and mitigate for that better same with a pr Well, besides uh, I'm all uh personally I like and support idea of the working group in india and Based on the two years experience in the china working group we believe that The it's very important to have a core leader team So I guess maybe We should carefully design the initial sponsor sponsors Basically, you would better have the person from different hyperlator projects and also Different companies that will be very important to make the working group going out in a healthy way right Yeah, absolutely and Nathan if you could put yeah, so I already have some contacts with the IBM research labs here in banglore I plan to reach out to them if You have anyone Who's Chris or anyone who knows anyone else? Who's working on fabric here? I would be happy to connect to them. I Think Nathan mentioned about indie contributors It would be great if we could if we could reach out to them and and get them on board and And and we'll work with With julian's team to to formulate a Proper plan to To address all the other concerns Yeah, yeah, that's great. If you have any question feel free to let us know We'd like to help. Yeah, that's a player Okay, great. Uh, good discussion. I think it sounds like there's there's a few things that will be updated here as we aren't going to have another phone meeting for several weeks which is keep an eye on uh on the tsc list and if it looks like all of these Feedback points have been resolved over the next few weeks. We might just move to email discussion and then potentially voting on this with the email Okay All right, so unfortunately, we don't have time to hear the labs update So I'd recommend again people take a look at that offline to provide feedback over the mailing list if at all possible And then I guess we'll also have to do the same with with the composer discussion Look forward to seeing as many of you as possible in basal next week And with that, thanks for everybody's time Thanks. Bye Save travels everyone. See you next week. See you Bye-bye