 Then I'll take over when you okay great. Yeah, for that for that item. Yeah. Okay. Let's see. Welcome to the Amherst Historical Commission public meeting on Wednesday, April 21 2021 at 630pm. Based on Governor Baker's executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. The meeting was chapter 30 a paragraph 20 and signed Thursday, March 12 2020. This meeting is being held virtually using the zoom platform. The public can listen to the proceedings by visiting the town's homepage and navigating to the town calendar toward the bottom of that page. Click on the meeting schedule for April 21 where the zoom link and tell telephone connections can be found. The meeting is being held and as chair of the Amherst Historical Commission and calling this meeting to order at 633pm. This meeting is being recorded and minutes are being taken. And we'll need to discuss that. Yeah. But first I'll take attendance by roll call board members is you hear your name called unmute yourself. Answer affirmatively and then please place yourselves back on mute. Present. Robin Fordham. Present. Janet Markwart. Present. Heady startup. Present. And Jane Wald I'm present to a few housekeeping comments. Board members if technical difficulties arise and we need to pause temper temporarily to rectify the situation. We'll, we'll just pause and then continue the meeting when the issue is resolved. If you have technical issues please let Ben know through the chat if that's available to you. The discussion may be suspended while the technical issues are addressed and the minutes will note if some kind of pause or disconnection has occurred. Please use the raise hand function to ask a question or make a comment. I'll see you raised hand and call on you to speak. Ben will assist me in keeping track of commission members who wish to be recognized. And then after speaking. Please remute yourself. Members of the public opportunity for public comment will be provided during the general public comment period and at other appropriate times throughout the meeting. Please be aware, the commission will take note of comments, but will not necessarily respond to them during the public comment period. If the public wish to make a comment during the public comment period. You must join the meeting via the zoom teleconferencing link or video conferencing link as explained earlier these links can be found on the town homepage calendar listing and on the meeting agenda. If you wish to make a comment by clicking the raised hand button when public comment is solicited. If you have joined the zoom meeting using a telephone, please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star nine on your telephone. When called on please identify yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking. We are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes and at the discretion of the commission chair. So, with that, let's see with that we need to decide on a minute taking method or person. I can take minutes that's fine. Thank you Robin. Thanks Robin. Thank you for taking minutes before for this commission or other commissions or. I've taken minutes for other commissions. Is there a standard format. Not necessarily sometimes I find it easier to work off the agenda. Yeah, because it's already kind of like labeled in that way. Yeah. And otherwise, you know, I think the most important thing is to get. Get that record the votes. If there are, if there are votes and otherwise just kind of. General summary of comments. Yep. Yeah. When I was doing it, I just made a copy of the agenda and opened up the space and then took notes under each item. Yeah, I don't know that I have quick access to the agenda on my computer right now, but that's fine. I can stick it in. If you just, if you just want to, if you guys want to highlight the, the agenda headings as we go through them. Yeah. Okay. Let's see. Well, thanks very much for doing that. So first on the agenda. Is the topic announcements. Yeah, let's see here. I have, I have. Unanticipated items that maybe aren't quite announcements. So I guess I'll wait for that. Okay. And Robin, did you. Did I see your hand? Yeah, I just, I don't remember if I distributed this. I don't know if that's a good point or not, but I believe preservation mass did a really cool. It's recorded review of macros maps. Which I just wanted to alert the commission to check out. Because I've used macros before, but I've never used the maps before. So I think it would be cool to be able to click on. On the map to get all the information from the, all the districts laid out. So if I'll make a note to try to. Send that link again. Oh, that does sound really helpful. That's really cool. Is that available. By going to the macros. Web page. Or it was a, it was actually a preservation, I believe it was a preservation mask on one of their workshops. And it's recorded. So I'll find the video. And then you can, you can watch it and kind of see, but it's a different, it's a different URL, but I'll send it out and make a note. Thank you. Sure. Actually, I did, I thought of another announcement, more of like a housekeeping type thing. I think. I'm going to get in the habit of. You know, hosting all the materials in what's called the document center on the town's website. So rather than like bombarding everyone with. Tons of PDFs. In advance of every meeting, you know, in. Various emails here and there. I'll just. I guess. Before each meeting, send the link to, to this. And then you can see that the link will be uploaded here. And you can also get there through the, if you go to the. Historical commission. And then on the, on the sidebar is like. For packets, you can click there. Because that it's going to help me stay on track and keep track of all this stuff. And then I hope it's easier for you all to be able to look things up. And it also creates a record of what. What documents were discussed at each meeting. So that can be found over here. And then you click here. And it should work. Hopefully. Yeah. And then you go to the packet for the meeting. So. You've been, I have a question. Is there a way this is, that is so helpful. And I'm just wondering if there's a way to. Create a PDF of the full packet just because it does get. You know, downloading 15 documents. Yeah. That's a good point. So that would basically be like one giant merged PDF. Yeah. Robin, you don't have to download them. You look at each one online. That's what I know. I know, but, but if you want to print them. You know, I'm so I like to have them printed out, depending. It would just be nice to have that file in addition, you know, so, so. I mean, I've pulled a PDFs together and, you know, Acrobat before. And, you know, in order for me to do it on my end, I'd have to download them all. So that's. Right. Yeah. I really liked that for this meeting. It was all in one place. What I'm curious about is you were saying it is going to stay. There for the permanent record. Cause I often go back to meetings and try to look up something. Yeah. So they'll be there by date. So we can go back and that is documents will be kept. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's even better. Yeah. So it's the same way the, the planning board and town council. Kind of keep track of their meetings. It's, you know, the agenda. The minutes and the packets for, for each meeting. That's much easier than looking through your old emails, trying to find one document you sent out at some point. Yeah. Well, what I find myself doing is I go through my sent email to try to find what I sent everyone. And that's what I do. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Thank you, Ben. All right. So we have a number, we have minutes to approve. Quite a, quite a few sets. Let's see. There are quite a few sets. Yeah. So I think. Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say, I think all of these had been previously done by either Jan or Jane. And then folks had an opportunity to, you know, look them over and some people provided some edits. But then, and then I did send them out. So I'm not sure if folks had time to review them beforehand, or if there was, we want to go over anything now. I think I'm thinking. Yeah. Because I'm sure we've seen some of these. Some have been edited. Yeah. I think it might be time consuming to, to just go one by one, but let's, but if there are. Changes in edits. Let's, I'll just make a call for them right now. So, Jan. Well, there are a lot of changes. I had edited all of these, except one I hadn't seen. And. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if the other didn't put in all the corrections. And I don't want to be like. Dissing on Jane, but I worry that these become a permanent record and they don't show us in the best light. If there are inaccuracies. So I would, I looked at them just today because I'm sorry, I don't know if you'd put them up earlier. Yeah. And some of them I hadn't seen before. And some of them I saw that things hadn't been fixed. So I don't know. I don't know. I'm. Subject to one of us going through them again and just fine. Tooth combing for edits. I would be happy to do that. There's proof reading and there's also just. Kind of erroneous statements because she didn't always know what we were talking about. So. I had read all the ones that were in the packet today. And I only have one correction from. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Banks to bang. February minutes. And then the July minutes. I wasn't there. So I was going to abstain from those, but. Well, there were just other things that you don't necessarily notice. I mean, misspellings like lead and still lead. And. Times when she referred to projects in an awkward way, like she keeps referring to the posts for the writer's walk instead of the signs and then the text. And I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what you're doing because she just wasn't familiar. She hadn't, you know, been through a lot of our. Processes before. So I just wanted to tweak them because they're. They're going to stand for what we did. So should we. There. Do you think there are. Do you think that misstatements. Rise to the level of. Not, not, not being, not being approvable at this time. No, I don't think so, but I just think that. For permanent record, they could be. Improved, but I don't think there's anything terribly. False about them at all. No. Just in a little awkward and slightly. I have a tendency. To agree with Jan. And while there, there isn't any formative errors. I think there could be some clarification. And so I would be willing to approve them with the. Stipulation that if Jan is willing to. Go through and clarify. That we could approve them. Or pot you could too. I mean, it doesn't have to be me. Anyone. We all could, but, but I think. I think we're kind of in a stymie here because. Basically they reflect the meeting, but there's some, some tweaking that needs to be done. If there's anything other than grammatical, should we not just delay the vote until. The next meeting. I mean, it seems odd to be approving them and then. Changing them other than, you know, changing a misspelling here. Or a verb agreement there. I, I tend to agree with Robin about that. That. Let's just get them in the right shape. And then approve them. Okay. But I can't work on those PDFs. So. And the, and the things that I sent her for correction. They're not complete because I haven't seen them all. So could you send me word docs of all of them then, and I'll go through and send them back to you. Correct it. That'd be okay. I know it makes more work for you. I'm sorry. Yeah. Even produce them as PDFs in the end and send them back to you to make it easier for you. Right. Yeah. I can track down the word documents. For the minutes. Or make the PDFs editable. Yeah. Yeah, either way. Maybe if I downloaded them, they would be there when I'm working with them. No, I think, I think when I, I can click a box that says like convert to PDF when I upload things. And I'm pretty sure they were in Word documents to begin with. So I'll just track those down. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. If, if that's, if that becomes troublesome. I'm happy to export them from PDF to word. Right. I can do that and send them some, a little formatting might be messed up, but. Right. You mean like download them and then export them. I could do that. I guess if that's, if that's what you're thinking. Yeah. Okay. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah. Why don't I try to do that first to save everybody trouble. That would be great, Jen. And I'm just going to add my two cents worth here. I think. If I had known that I would be taking minutes and this kind of issue would be coming up, it would be. It would be a little overwhelming, you know, to, to feel that I was carrying the absolute truth of each meeting, both in essence and in word. It's hard because as a new member, you just don't know the stuff that all the details. And I think. We need to find a happy, we need to find a happy medium. I'm already taking minutes for another organization. So I just can't. But this kind of conversation makes me think I don't want to do with the minutes ever. I don't want to do with the minutes ever again. If we only had one set of minutes from the previous meeting each time, then you just press corrections and changes and you vote those in, and it's done. It's just that we have so many, and they're from so far back that we can't do it at this meeting. If it were just last meeting's minutes, it'd be a piece of cake. You know. We need a motion to delay the approval to the next meeting. If so, I so move. I don't think we do. I think we can. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. All right. West cemetery signage and restoration project. Overview. Oh, and. Thank you, Jen. Yes, Jen. Thank you. Yeah, really. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I can't guarantee they'll be perfect. Yeah. You really elevated our expectations. Okay. West cemetery signage and restoration overview. Ben, can you lead us through this, please? Yeah, certainly. So. West cemetery. You know, if not all of you, West cemetery is the oldest cemetery in Amherst, it's located in the center of town. It's behind one East pleasant. The big mixed East building and kind of straddled by triangle street. There are, there's kind of been a. A lot of, there was a 1999 preservation plan written for West cemetery that kind of outlined a lot of different work. I think it's, I've seen pictures from the 80s and 90s and it was very, very kind of sketchy place to be with a lot of overgrowth and graffiti and. Funny, I grew up in Amherst and I, I did walk through there, but that was maybe in the early 2000s and I guess it was mostly cleaned up by then, but anyway, West cemetery is transforming into quite a nice place. And the mural has been relocated. It used to be on the carriage shops, which were taken down. And now there's a beautiful Amherst history mural. On the backside of one East pleasant street. And I think so there's kind of like, it brings us kind of to today where there's kind of. The good process is continuing essentially and. I know. At this point. There's kind of three. Kind of three aspects we want to address this summer in West cemetery and this is kind of. Picks up on previous work that had been done. So as some of you know, we have $100,000 in CPA money. Allocated to the town and that's, you know, specifically for the restoration of headstones in West cemetery. I believe there was work done in like the early 2000s, like 2003. There was work done in 2000 here. This is the report from the conservator. There's work done in 2018. And then, you know, in 2018 and 2019, we applied for CPA money, $50,000 each year. And now we have $100,000. So I'm kind of under directive from, you know, the higher ups to, you know, let's, let's take it on this summer. Let's, let's, let's spend that money and, you know, really make an impact on West cemetery. So the headstone restoration work. There's kind of, it's a little bit, I need to, basically I need to sit down with this report and like really study it to understand kind of where we are and where we need to go and how we get there. There's obviously a lot of headstones in West cemetery. And they're in varying conditions. This is kind of like, this is like the, and there's like, I feel like I'm a code breaker. I have to try to understand what this, what, what they left us in 2018. It's a kind of the colors indicate the condition of every headstone. And I think the ones with numbers on them are the ones that they restored in 2018. So I feel like I kind of need to go through and look, look at the ones that are colored because there's something wrong with them, but don't have a number next to them. And that indicates that's a headstone that, you know, is either, you know, hazardous, fractured or tilted that needs to, that needs work. And there's, there's also the issue where like, you know, there's a big difference between, I'll just show some pictures as examples. There's a big difference between a headstone that just needs to be reset, you know, in, and is in generally good shape. And then a headstone that is, you know, needs to be fully repaired, you know, and in terms of cost, like, there's, if, if most of the headstones remaining are this and need to be completely recreated, then $100,000 not, isn't going to go as far. But if, if I walk around and see that it's mostly just, they need a new base and just to be reset and, you know, $100,000 can go pretty far. So my understanding is when the, basically my, my next task is to put together an RFP for this work to find a qualified contractor to do this work. When this was put out to bid in 2017, I guess, basically the bid was written as if like, we have $50,000. How many headstones can you do for that much money? And, and then it was on the town to kind of pick the most whoever, whichever contractor said they could do the most headstones and also had the, was the most qualified based on their, you know, references and, you know, certifications and stuff like that. So I kind of need to like ponder that and think if that's the best approach or whether it makes sense to kind of really invent, thoroughly inventory the cemetery and kind of specifically say like which ones need to be addressed. I would also say, let me see if I can find a map here. Sorry. So this is just for your reference, like triangle street is over here to the left. The Dickinson plot is kind of in the middle over here. And then this really only shows half the half the cemetery. The, there's, you know, certainly a push. The, this is the 18, I think this is called the 1870s section. I think that's just generally the year of most of the headstones. I wish I could find a map of all of West cemetery. Let me hear, I'll just pull that up. I just want to talk quickly about the different sections and kind of So here we go. So the, the oldest section in the cemetery, like dates back to, I think like mid 1700s. And that's mostly in this area, kind of like in the middle of this ring. Yeah, we're still seeing the map. There we go. The plot plan. Yeah. Do you see the Google maps now? Yes. Thank you. Great. Yeah. Thanks. So the oldest section of the cemetery is in this area here. That, that was restored in 2005, I believe it was part of that work. And that's in pretty good shape. This is kind of the 1870 section over here. And that was like, you know, half, you know, phase one of that project was done in 2018. So. The, the idea is to kind of finish that work. However, we are, we're also, you know, the, we're also wanting to address. It's called, there's a section back here. It's called, it's the African American section, where a lot of African American residents and Amherst were buried. It's kind of along the fence here and in this area back here, you can kind of shade it right now, but. This area also needs to be addressed. There's some headstones in rough shape. And it's, you know, a highly visible section. And then honestly it connects really well with the Civil War and the Civil War. And so it's because a lot of the. Soldiers from the 54th regiment and other. African American regiments are buried here. So there's kind of that direct connection. And so we are. Wanting to basically, you know, finish up the work in faith kind of phase two of the 1870 section, which is the African American section. So I think that's a good idea. So I think we should also. Stretch that $100,000 as far as it can go. To also do work in the African American section. However, I don't believe. There's kind of like an inventory or like assessment of that section because. I think the scope of work initially kind of focused on the 1870 section. So. That's just to say basically. Part of the work would be to kind of just. You know. Spend maybe, you know. Kind of just split your time, split the contractors time between here and the remaining work to be done in the 1870 section. Or essentially, so. Basically, I. What I'm going to try to do is maybe have like a draft of the RFP. Ready for next meeting. And then, but I, you know, I want to kind of. Give everyone an opportunity to kind of provide any feedback or suggestions kind of as I. Work to develop that. And I think I'll stop there. The heads, the headstone restoration was kind of like. Part one of the pieces. But then we also want to do some interpretive signage. And address the landscaping, but. I can talk about that more later. So. Jan. Some of us were on the commission through that. Right, right. Yeah. And first of all, let me just offer, if you want to go out there and go through them one by one, I'll be happy to go with you. Yeah. You take notes. Also remember that some things have been damaged since 2018 since that inventory. So that adds to it. But really the people that did the 2018 one. I mean, I realized there was nothing written in stone, but it was a $50,000 project. And we told them that we could do 50 at a time over three years. And without actually signing a contract for three years, we gave them the impression that they would be the ones. For those three years. I mean, I don't know how important it is to keep these vendors. Happy and whether they still believe it, but we did kind of base all the proposals to CPAC on. Yeah. That would make my life a lot easier. I mean, you probably still have to go out with an RFP and well, approved again, but I mean that Jane, isn't that how you remember it? Yeah. That is how I remember it. The thing. Yes. That what they told us basically was the, you know, the whole package that they were looking at was about 150,000. But your, your point been about. You know, I don't know. You don't recall whether that. Was part of. And it sounds like from you, it sounds like it was not part of their. Yeah. Estimated. I don't believe. I do think that at some point, somebody inventoryed it. Cause I remember at some point, somebody talking about how many things in there needed work. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. But even if it was a town, maybe it was Nate. I don't know. You know. Yeah. If. So I know there may be some procurement. Yeah. Restrictions. It. If we can go, I mean, and I don't think there. That many monument. Companies, I think this was one we'd worked with. Years before. Yeah. So if it falls within. Procurement guidelines. It would be pretty great to be able to go back to them. And we were happy with their work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this is actually the same company. MCC. They're, they're the ones that restored the Civil War tablets. I don't. 2005 work, right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure they'd be willing to come out and update their map. But you know, we had them through the most crucial things first. They were the reddest boxes. Yeah. So they'll be able to do more with 50,000 after this because they, they aren't as damaged. Right. Right. Weren't treated. Mostly. Yeah. That's really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Other thoughts from other commission members. I have a question. I don't know within the scope of the RFP, there could be some kind of. Educational program that would talk about. New England or in. The sculptural techniques that are used to create this kind of. Amazing American phenomenon. In terms of material culture. I just think. As we do this work as we kind of weave in the Civil War tablets. It's, it's a, it would be a missed opportunity. But it's not to have an opportunity to talk to the conservators and. Maybe some kind of event or show and tell, or I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this, but I. This cemetery is so important to the town. And such a beautiful place to have in such a central location. And so critical to the history of the. Community that I think, I think it would be. And given what you're saying, Ben, about the fact that's. You know, it's no accident. That the shade shaded area of the cemetery is where the African American. Waves are located and. Is this not an opportunity to kind of isn't, isn't this a teachable moment really to build on that and to. You know, make, make an attempt to say here is a kind of. Equal treatment in terms of restoration or consolation of, of what we have here. And isn't it great that it kind of dovetails with the Civil War tablets and Juneteenth and things like that. It's just really, really great. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'd be curious to know whether the same quality of materials was used for that section. And the same quality of work. But also, I think you're absolutely right. Even if it were just an article in the newspaper, when we talk about. You know, what's being done and what's there and. And what materials were used and where they came from and who the. Monument makers were, I think it'd be interesting for the town. Yeah, we should also remember Bob Romer's. Intense interest in this. So he, he can be a. A resource, not so much for the restoration, but for the history. He might be the one who made that inventory of the African American. I've come across a number of articles. About in. There was a new plaque made for. I think the person's name was James Thompson. He was like a civil war. Big dedication. Yeah, there's a big dedication. So I wonder if part of that event was, you know, learning. Surveying the African American section more. Thoroughly, but. Yeah, possibly. Preceding that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think he did. He did it in. African American population and Amherst for a long, for a long time. And I think has a book. Yes, he does. And articles. Yeah. You can contact him too for more information. If you did. Your base. Right. So he would be that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Could that, could that be. A project. That's connected to what we're doing about the restoration and, and CPAC money be requested to. Document the history. Of that section. Related to the. Tablets. You mean hire someone to do it or just to publish it somehow? Well, someone, someone has to research it. And someone has to. Document it. And then, then. Once that's done, it really should be published. It should be a report. It should be something. To, to round out. What we know about the cemetery. I think Robin, you had. Yeah, I've been pouring over the guidelines for CPA funding. I think that that's one of those things that would. That might fall under administrative funding that you can do. You can do a survey for something that's connected to. Proposal that's under consideration, I think, but I'm not sure if you can do one for something that's already done. Yeah. Thank you. I wonder if. I mean, I haven't looked at the cemetery preservation plan in a, in a long time. I know. I know the person who did it and it. I know her work and she's really terrific, but I'm wondering. What's in there? I mean, Go back and look at that. Yeah. Is it long? Can you forward it to us? Would it be an interesting ring for the commission? Yeah. Yeah. Some. I found it just today. You know, if I, I think I just Googled. West cemetery. Amherst preservation plan. And I found a PDF of it. I have it. I have the, I have the original on, on our like network drive, but it's like, you know, each section is a different PDF. And I was trying to. Yeah. I had to combine it all, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I found one online. Okay. Maybe just send us the link to that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, okay. But this, I think this. Part of this conversation is also kind of merging into. The next part, which is. Signage and interpretive signs. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So. Right now. There's. They're very little to no signage at West cemetery. There's, and I think some of you probably also know about the history with that. Nate's cued me in that, I guess, when the. Mural was put on one East pleasant street. There was some sort of promise made that. The developers there would. They paid for the mural. But. The signage plan just kind of fell apart. And I don't, I don't know if it was on them or the town or what, but. There was a. A long time, but nobody. Yeah. Yeah. To make the final decision and they wanted us to make the final. Yeah. Yeah. Peter. Yeah. That's my understanding. It kind of petered out, but there was a lot of, a lot of work done to develop signs for West cemetery. And so, you know, specifically with the, with the Juneteenth holiday coming up. Part of that event. You know, there's a lot of, a lot going into the planning of that event, but there's kind of going to be a walking. Tour of Amherst sites downtown. And one of the stops is going to be in West cemetery. And so we obviously, we can't do the headstone restoration by then that's hopefully by the. End of the summer at the earliest, maybe, but. We do, we do want to get better signs up there just to kind of, you know, welcome. There's going to probably the most people ever. In West cemetery on June 19th. So we want to make it look, look nice. And so. I will say Alan snow has been out there. He's been out there for a couple of years. He's been out there for a couple of years. He's our tree warden and his, he has a landscape crew. He's, I haven't been there since he's done work there, but I've heard he did great work kind of cleaning up the landscaping, getting rid of the woody weeds and shrubs. So that was kind of phase one, which was just like, let's just make the vegetation tame and under control. Second is the signage. I've kind of been getting messages from. Dave Zomac and others to kind of, let's just. We, by June 19th, we can't like. Have a. Elaborate. Sign in a nice granite post and like. Just to get that would need to go out for bid and fabricated and this and that. But that is the ultimate goal is to like get a really. Nice signage for West cemetery with like, you know, set in like granite stone, something like that. That's kind of, we want to have welcome signs kind of in the entrances on triangle street and West pleasant street. And then also kind of like interpretive signage for the mural. For the African-American section, probably for the Dickinson section. Different kind of. Places as you go throughout. So. That's kind of like the long-term vision. For a jute for like immediate. We want to, we have money in. It's not CPA. It's like a West cemetery. Gift account. We have money to spend. To just get temporary signs put in there for, for June 19th. So that's kind of like, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, when the Valley sign works, I think they can do like aluminum. Signs and we'll just put them on four by four wooden posts. They can do that for us. For a fairly good price. And what I was going to bring up here was just the. The design that was. Worked on. By. The historical commission earlier. I also had a pretty clear. Plan for the one that interprets the mural. You know, I. I haven't come across that yet. I've, I've found, I've found a brochure kind of thing that kind of has like. That's old. Yeah. Because it, it has pictures from the old. Mural. So I have three part long, narrow. Sign low down in front of them facing the mural. Yeah. Had. Silhouettes of all the forms and they were identified and Jane even went through and, and helped identify some of the stuff or pick out what was essential. He has. I think I wrote up. Yeah. What I did was to. Edit and reduce the entries in that brochure. Or the new sign and the new mural. Yeah. So we were pretty much ready to go. And then there was a stalemate. Between. People who own that building and us. And I can't remember what happened, but. I think it was that the. You know, the, the owners wanted to have some. They want to have some say about. You know, what it would be like because they were paying for it. But they, I think they just probably felt they didn't have. The expertise to pursue it. And, and, and we didn't have the. The band. Kind of take it. Take it wholly into. The purview of the town staff or the historical commission. So Ben, you've come along at just exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There's joking with Nate. There's been a few of these projects that have, you know, For whatever reason, falling through the cracks, the funding is there, the. The design is there. And, but just. Turn over in town staff. It's, it's petered out. And so there's been a few things where I've like. You know, I think that. Had to kind of be the closer. Of sorts to kind of just get it over the finish line. I think if you went back to them, the owners. And said, we're ready to put up something temporary. You liked the design we had. Are you willing to let us try it? And then later, if you want to put up something more permanent that you're paying for, you could change as you would want. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, I think they would just simply be relieved that we're doing, that we're doing it. Yeah. I mean, I didn't say, sure, just send us the bill. Exactly. I, to tell the truth, I kind of think that that. Yeah. That was the impression I had in those last couple of meetings. Yeah. And I think that helped reconstruct it with you. Okay. You know, out of whatever notes you have, and I don't know if I can find anything anymore, but we did have it pretty well laid out. Yeah. So I think. One thing that's, you know, recently come up is. Since, since that whole process played out. Like. We've also separately been working on this town, like wayfinding system. With like, and I guess Jen, Jen knows about that from DRB meetings, but we were planning on putting welcome signs, you know, welcome to Amher signs, you know, kind of like directional post signs that point out different things, you know, town center, UMass, that kind of stuff. And it's all designed within the same family of signs by, by a designer in North Hampton, Seth Gregory. Nate that there's that the playground is going in and Kendrick Park, there's going to be a new sign put in there across the street from West cemetery that's going to match the wayfinding system. So. And the writers walk signs match the way finding. Yeah. And the writers walk signs match that. So. Yeah. So it should match the cemetery because it's all sort of part of this history of Amher's, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I think it's okay for the West, for the cemetery to be a little bit distinct, but I do think it should be. Part of the same family of signs. So. Where that kind of left me slash town staff was thinking. You know, we have this sign designed. It's. You know, it looks, it, there's like kind of a foam board one up there right now that's literally falling apart and you can't read it. But it, I think, I believe it's this design. So the idea was to maybe just put this up, you know, have this fabricated in aluminum, put on a four by four wooden posts, put this up for the time being, you know, maybe it's there for a year. I don't know. Hopefully, hopefully not that long, but I think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea. In the meantime, that would give us time to work with Seth. Gregory to. Basically, I mean, all the text is good. This is exactly what we would want it to say. I would just add a line about the African-American section. Yeah. Oh, definitely. That's a great idea. It does say something about theft or mutilation of any memorial object is a violation of state law. Yeah. Yeah. We want to, yeah. Removal dog ways. But I think we would basically send this to. Seth and just have him mock something up. That kind of matches the rest of the way, finding system. We could do that with a mural silhouette too. Yeah. It's the same font and colors. Yeah. Yeah. Different from. Mike Yankees design. So this is what Mike Yankees sent me. What we're seeing here. The whole, the whole thing from top to bottom. Yeah. Top to bottom. Yeah. And. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I was just curious that the design, the graphic at the top, it's almost, I mean, I'm thinking immediately of Portsmouth, New Hampshire, which has about five or six really important historic cemeteries. It was that the intention that there was this sort of template that was for West cemetery and other. Places of significance in the downtown that would look the same as the sign. And what is that? Just curious. At the time we didn't have that kind of coordination, but now with way finding where you do want to do that. I mean, I just read today that. Atkins. The, the, the, the rotary where Atkins farm market is, is called. It has been referred to as the Atkins. Farm center or village. No. Atkins village center. On top of. Homeroid village and. Yeah. And Amherst. And North Amherst. It's really interesting what's happening, you know, just to be thinking about the town in this way and, and sort of divided up in, in these chunks. Yeah. No, the, the, here, I'll share my screen quickly. I just found the presentation I gave to. Um, town council in February. So this is the. Way find it in the kind of welcome to Amherst sign that were, that was approved and. Right now we're just kind of finalizing the locations. Um, and so the, these would go kind of. Along in four, four locations as you approach downtown. Um, And then I think the goal too is, you know, we're, we're redoing the Palmer Roy village center. We'd probably. You know, introduce a way of finding sign there. Um, something like this. You know, welcome, welcome to Amherst, you know, town center would be straight ahead or we would say, welcome to Pomeroy village center or something like that. Um, there's a. The eventual goal is too for like. Parks and conservation areas to have. Similar signs, kind of with this faded brown in the background. And you know, it might say Kendrick park or a mill river or something like that. So. This is kind of the family of signs that's coming together. Um, this is the directional post sign. That'll go more, more, more for pedestrians as you're walking through the town. To kind of point you to or to green space, you know, parking. Cultural destinations, you know, west cemetery. The library, things like that. Um, so. I hope, you know, it's. It's the kind of thing where, you know, uh, this is also one of those projects that was funded like 10 years ago and kept falling through the cracks and. Um, Is hopefully we have momentum to finally get it done. We have approvals that we need and the funding. So it's just. Getting over that last step. Um, But I think they're. You know, You know, You know, You know, Pretty soon there's going to be quite this kind of brand for Amherst, um, put out there. And I think it makes sense to. For each sign that we do, whether it's for a historical site, recreation area. To kind of that. To, to our, to the best ability, make it. Cohesive. Well, let's do it. I mean, let's do these. Well, we have to really sit down. Um, and, and just finalize the details and get stuff to. Yeah. Yeah. So. So, um, Uh, One question about this is, um, Would we. I think, I, I think probably the historical commission can make a recommendation about the, about the West cemetery sign. Uh, and whether. Whether the sign design that Ben has shown us. Uh, Whether that's a temporary sign or a permanent sign. Slightly different from the, from the signage family. But is a. Single sign or, or perhaps two signs, one at each entrance. Um, you know, do we recommend to. Go ahead with that particular design. For the, for the, those welcome signs. And then for other signage in West cemetery to fall within the. You know, the, the signage family. You know, probably have to go to design review board. If there's any different. What's up there? Yeah, I know that I was going to say that. So the. You know, I think, I think we, Seth probably could design a sign and we could have it fabricated by June 19th, but the issue is that. You know, because that would then be the introduction of a permanent sign, it would need to go. But before DRB and possibly the planning board. For approval. Um, which I think would just add. Make it pretty tight in terms of timing. Um, so that's why I was thinking if it's a. Uh, temporary sign and something that's replacing what's already there. Um, I would have to check with. The, the. I'm not sure. I would have to check with Rob, more of the building commissioner, but I think we could forego DRB, as long as it's. Temporary and it's already designed. So. Right. Right. And I guess. I guess. My, I guess my question. Yeah, I know that temporary signage. You know, temporary signage doesn't have to go through all the. The whole process. I understand it. But I guess my question is. As a temporary sign. There's another question about. Do we want that design as the permanent sign that follows the temporary sign. That may be. We want to. Yeah, I think we want to match the way finding. It's possible, even if it's only a slight modification of this in terms of font and colors. I think the fewer. Design differential differences we have across town, the more cohesive and less cluttered it looks. Time for those approvals. Is there an issue with a designer. Seth. The designer of this sign. Oh, Mike. I don't know. I don't think he cares. I mean, I changed the writer's walk signs and he had designed those and he never said anything. He knew we were doing it. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't need, I think. There, there was an email exchange I had with Michael and he was. I think just a little, I did ask like. Could. You know, I think he was excited to help. Adapt this sign into the way finding system. To match the way finding system. And. You know, he was excited to help. Out with this process, but I think. Obviously I wasn't there during the time, but it sounded like it, you know, the way it was kind of like dragged down on and on after a while. He was feeling a little frustrated with kind of like. The, the sign after, after all of that. So. So I guess my question is, do we. Just. Does the town. Own this design. Right. Well, he was a volunteer. He wasn't ever paid for it. Right. So we didn't really buy it from him. It was one of his things as a historical commission member. Right. Yeah, I think my understanding was he was working as a volunteer, not. As a professional under contract, but I can check on that. So. I do think we, yeah, I think. We would need. His permission or at least I would like to. Ask. Just to kind of just make sure we're not. So do the one he did as a temporary, and then when we go to do the permanent, let Seth do the least amount possible to make it match and then run it by Mike to make sure he's okay with it. It'll look a lot like what he already did. So. So. So. So will we recommend. A text to be added to recognize that the African American cemetery is part of the West cemetery. I would just add one line in there. Right. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. And it doesn't change. The original design. But it will allow us to, to have a temporary design until we get to a permanent one. The line can even say something like. The Southeast. Section of the cemetery. It has mostly burials of African Americans, including the soldiers who are named on the Civil War tablets. Exhibited in town or something like that. To make that connection. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great idea. Should we move that. Formally. I don't think it's necessary. I think it's well, all right. Yeah. We can, we can move it as a formal recommendation. To. To whom? Then. If it's to Ben, we don't need a motion. To help Ben have, have. Hutzpah to go forward and have this done. We want to add this line and get this thing up. And so if we move it and it's official, will that give him more? I don't know authority to tell the town, look at historical commission wants this, you better do it. So the history of a commission reviewed the. The draft. I guess this is considered a draft. Of the, the documentation for West cemetery and has. Suggested recommended. That the African-American portion of the cemetery be recognized on this. Yeah. On the welcome signs that will be. The temporary welcome signs. Right. Temporary design. For the design for the temporary. So. Is that a motion from. It's a motion. It's a motion from Pat. I second it. Pat. Thank you, Eddie. Eddie. Any further discussion. Do you want a draft sentence? Like I said, or do you want to just let them work it out? I scribbled down what you said the Southeast section contains, you know, African-American residents, some of whom served in the civil war. And are listed on the tablets. Yeah. I don't like the word. Contains. That's kind of weird. I'd probably say it nicer than that. But yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think there are people who served in later wars as well. Yeah. Yeah. American armed forces, including many listed on the civil war. Yeah. Actually, I don't like the word contains. That's kind of weird. I don't like the word contains. Includes or. Or laid to rest here. Yeah. Yes. I like that laid to rest. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So let's have a, let's have a vote on that motion. Roll call vote. All in favor. Oh, can we, I'm sorry. Can we get a, just a, I've got the historical commission remand recommends that. The draft signage for the West cemetery add information on the African-American portion of the separate. To. The temporary welcome sign. Is that sufficient? You don't, you're kind of repetitive. Yeah, I know. You can clean it up later and just put in one. So that's fine. Yeah. I agree. It up later. Yeah. Okay. That's fine. Thank you. Pat. All. In favor. Robin forum. In favor. Janet Markworth. Yes. Heady startup. Yes. Jane. Yes. Unanimous vote in favor. Thank you. Ben, do we need to return to. The monument question. Do you have enough feedback from us? Do we need to give you more? For the headstones. For the headstones. Yeah. No, I think it's still pretty early in the stages. I need to kind of like collect. Like all of the work that's been done, the various reports. And. And surveys and then. And then we have a lot of. The accounting department and Amherst about like how, how to craft an RFP when it's not exactly clear kind of. What. We're asking people like that. The contractor to do because. We have a hundred thousand dollars. We have headstones to restore, but we don't, we don't know exactly how much each one's going to cost. So. I think one of the things that was really interesting at the time was. We hired a company. We hired the company that was the most qualified. And said they could do the lowest price per. Headstone generally. But then left it up to them to kind of like. Develop a strategy for each one. So. You're hiring them to come back, reassess where it is now and continue the work. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to put it that way. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right. And so members of the historical commission can. Further assist. This by. Reviewing the. Cemetery preservation plan. Are there other steps that we need to. Take. Well, I think our next. Topic is. We're going to talk about the mixed use building and at East Pleasant street. Part of that I'm going to propose that we do a site visit for, for that, which will be in West cemetery. So. With there, maybe, maybe we can do an extended site visit if folks want to kind of walk through it together. Just so we're all on the. Same page. Yeah. Somewhere in your files. There's a really big version of that map. Yeah. Yeah. I found that. Yeah. I think we can bring that. And we can walk around with it. Yeah. It quickly identify which things are still. Damage things that weren't, oh, we're okay before that are now damaged and that kind of thing. And just have a pet. Like maybe make a copy or have a pencil or an overlap. Mark on it. Right. Right. Well, with that in mind. Why don't we flip these two next agenda items and go to. Go to the East pleasant street review. East pleasant street item and then do the Emily Dickinson museum item. Okay. Yeah, that, that sounds good. Okay. So yeah, we'll switch four and five. So yeah. Basically a brief little introduction. The same developers as one East pleasant archipelago investments. As proposing a new mixed use building next door to one East pleasant. And I'll try to pull up. The, sorry. The, the new building will kind of. It's going into what's now a parking lot, but then also the buildings will be demolished where cousins market and the pub and. I'm blanking what else was back there. But I do believe just, just. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was all those demolitions were approved by the commission. So, you know, you know, they were approved in previous year. So, and I think Rob and others double kind of checked in on that to make sure everything was square with the demolition permits. So. The kind of purview of the historical commission, basically the. When a site plan review is submitted to the. Planning board, they then do a transmittal to all of the, all of the commission's. To basically collect. Feedback and comments on the, on the plan, you know, conservation commission, things like that. So the historical commission is one of those. And so. We, you know, are offered the opportunity to provide comments and feedback on the proposal. I was. You know, I think it's a great opportunity to be able to, to, to, to, to admit, I, I was under the impression that we had to get this memo to the planning board by the time they opened the public hearing. But I've since kind of been told by others that. You know, by the. Oh, there's in the planning department, Chris breast drop that. It really needs to be submitted during the public hearing. So, you know, there's, you know, there's, you know, there's, you know, there's at least, you know, three, four different hearings. So. What, what I was going to propose is we can talk about it now. Just kind of talk about generally kind of what. We might want to think about, but. What I'd like to do for our next meeting. Is gather more information about the. Specific impacts, you know, focusing on West cemetery, because this building does. And, you know, hopefully invite the. Applicant to discuss the project next meeting. And. I think we should. Probably get Alan snow to provide some information about the trees. And the fence in West cemetery. And, you know, it's a big construction project of five story building. It's right up to the property line. So. You know, we've, they've told us that there's going to be minimal impact to West cemetery, but I think getting more clarification about that. Would be important. And. So I just want to, I'm sorry, I'm going through the. Ben, I'm confused because in your first thing, when you sent it to us, I thought all we were commenting on was the use of that parking lot for the construction trailers and stuff. We're actually looking at the building itself. So, you know, we're not get the historical commission isn't given like a set, you know, scope that they're, that are, they're allowed to comment on, I think it's. Oh, okay. Kind of general. Concerns or, you know, And things like that. So I think. You know, I'm just, and I think, you know, I was under the, I was under the assumption that West cemetery would be the primary kind of focus of the historical commission, but maybe there's other things to, to consider. And so sorry, I'm just going through it here. The, the survey. You know, it shows the fence here. And then the property line really is right up. To the fence, you know, that's probably like a few. Feet or, you know, a foot or two. And so some of these trees are kind of straddling the fence. Or. But most of them are on. Actually, yeah, most of them are on town property. So I think what Alan snow is going to say is that yes, these are on town property, but there's a huge construction project happening right here. And it's likely that these trees wouldn't, you know, make it. During the construction. And so we have, I think. We should think about what does that mean for West cemetery? And do we have any. Kind of like recommendations, the, the planning board. You know, the, during the site plan review process, the. The use is allowed by right. So they're allowed to build a mixed use building here. It can be five stories tall. There's a, but the site plan review process does enable the planning board to make a lot of, you know, conditions of that on the. Development about, you know, traffic control, landscaping, lighting, things like that, you know, trash. Management stuff like that. So. I think this is an area that's. Kind of interesting kind of thinking about what this edge will look like when it's all said and done. And so. Yeah, I just think, you know, another thing too is like. This is where the pub is the pub will be taken down. They're going to be able to access the construction site from this area. So it's not like they're going to need to come through West cemetery, which would obviously be. Terrible, really, really impactful to the cemetery, but they should be able to do what they need to do from here. I mean, I don't know how they'll access this side of the site. That's maybe a question to ask. Because one, he's pleasant really does come up right here. So. Yeah, so. I think I, you know, I personally haven't been part of like a, this is a new kind of thing for me, historical commission review of a. New development downtown. So I just kind of had assumptions that West cemetery would be the focus, but if there's other things that historical has commented on on the past, certainly I'm open to kind of. Anything. So. Yeah, Ben, this doesn't come before the historical commission very often. Right. This is kind of unusual for us also. Yeah, usually taken care of by going to the DRB and then our rep is on the DRB. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah, but I, I do think that it's right. That the historical commission. Would be able to comment on. Impacts on what cemetery. From this. Yeah. Yeah. So like with, with one, he's pleasant. I'm just curious how the, because obviously there was a lot of considerations for West cemetery there. Was that. Negotiated. Kind of by the planning board or. What did the applicant come to the historical commission specifically? Well, it was because of the mural. If it hadn't been here, I don't think it would have been, it is involved that. Right. Lighting and setback and. And the design that allowed for that mural to be replaced. That was all. You know, circled around that one. Right. We didn't respond to plans for where it sat on the lot or what the design looked like or anything like that. Okay. Yeah. So sorry, you may have already said this, but. Are there setback. Issues with this project setback from West cemetery. Um, no, I mean, they're in compliance with the, with the zoning bylaw. If you zoom in on that. Map you did. I'm looking at it from your. Yeah. Yeah. If you zoom in on that, you can see that the pavement edge. Oh, that's existing payment. Yeah. Yeah. So they might actually take some of those trees out. I don't know what that black line is. I assume that's their new pavement edge. Or is that just. What their property encompasses. I mean, they may not actually touch some of those trees. They may not touch them. But it looks like it might be a property. Yeah. The dark black line is property line. And even if they don't touch them just constructing right there, they're going to be hurt. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So is there a mechanism to have them replace whatever trees are. Damaged. Yeah. Yeah, there is. So I think that's. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's a commission. Like. Recommendation or something that. You know, any impacts to West cemetery are. You know, a. A draster, you know, certainly remedy. Yeah. Remedy. Yeah. And would they, would they plant on their side of our metal fence or our side of our metal fence? I don't, I don't, I'm not sure. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I think it would probably be a discussion for Alan snow. Probably be easier for him to maintain them if they're on the town. The cemetery side of the fence. It just, it, it allows them to kind of encroach a little further because it starts looking like their property line just. Yeah. Much more, you know, yeah. And also if they're going to function sort of as a screen against this modern intrusion into the view of the West cemetery, we want them close and dense. Yeah. Yeah. And I think. I guess I'm. Not clear on the maturity of these trees. Yeah, they're like medium size. They're a. Maple. The aerial. Yeah. Aerial and zoom. Oh yeah. Right. Right. That's right. Thank you. Yeah. So, so then we can't, we can't comment on, or we don't have a. A role to play in terms of the visual appearance of the back of the building, looking at it from the cemetery. Unfortunately not. I mean, other, other than screening, you know, and any sort of like impacts to the. You know, if you want to think about, you know, less cemetery is a historical landscape, certainly. Yeah. There's no view shed or ancient lights or anything like. Am I, am I. I'm just looking for things because. Yeah. This, this, this just. This just upsets me. Yeah. I think. Sorry. I'm trying to find the rendering. Where is it? Well, they're doing lights on the back of the other building. To light the cemetery where the, where the mural is. And maybe they'd be willing to put lights on the back of this building to help light the cemetery. Yeah. I was actually going to say. In talking with Dave Zomac recently, the technically, the cemetery is supposed to be closed at, at dark. That's what it says on the. Sign lock it. Yeah. And that's kind of the, I think the, I was a, something that. We years ago worked out with the police, I guess, was that it's just easier to just say that it's going to be closed. It's going to be closed. It's going to be closed after dark with, you know, I guess the trouble they've had there in the past. So actually, I think. There's a move now to, there's very few lights in West cemetery, but. There's a move now to just not have. Have it very lit because we don't want to. Make people. I know they aren't locking it because there's just nobody to go do it unless. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the historical commission can comment on lighting plans. Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, and that sign that's going to be erected for the mural. I mean, that's the same people. This can all be kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Thinking about the tree. This may be slightly out of our purview, but thinking about the trees. I'm wondering what the. But the pavement cover is going to be. With the new construction. The trees may be healthier within the, within West cemetery, within the metal fence. Depending on. Where. Grave markers are grave sites are. Yeah. That's a, that's a site visit. I think that's probably a site visit thing. Yeah, if you look at the aerial view and you zoom in, it almost looks like some of them are so big at the, at their tops that they might have to cut them just to get the building in there. You know, that building is going to be so close to the property line. Well, it's called maximizing land use value. Right. The one at the bottom is. Yeah. Really funding quite a ways in there. Yeah. I mean, I guess we could ask them. I don't know. These are town trees. You're not allowed to just cut these in half. You know, but I guess anything that extends over onto their property line, they have a right to cut off. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, too, there's like, look, there's headstones that are right. Yeah, I was walking, but I have pictures on my phone. I wish I could quickly transfer them. But yeah, it's there's headstones right up against the fence too. So, yeah, that's right. I plan trees any closer because they'll tear up the. Yeah. Yeah. So what should be. The historical commission's next steps. I. It sounds like we'll need a site visit at some point. And then we will. Be able to discuss and draw up our recommendations or our. Then recommendations or report. I think it would be like a memo with recommendations. Yeah. Like things for that for the town to keep in mind when they're negotiating with the developers. Yeah. Okay. So this site is it. We were going to do that in the sort of cemetery signage and everything all at once. When, when is that? Are you planning to put that up soon? That together. Yeah, I would. I would like to do that. In the next. Few weeks, certainly. I think. I was under the assumption. I think I've written down our next meeting is May 19th. Oops. So. Let's definitely do it. End of April, beginning of May then. Yeah. I don't know. I guess. I guess we might be able to schedule it. There's only. Six of us. Does I know just generally. Early mornings. Works for people who are. Tied to the nine to five work schedule. That includes me. So I don't forget. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Number and I'll just call you. Myself and alarm. And, you know, I understand. Obviously COVID is still a concern. So. It will be outdoors. So. Yeah. You know, it's, it's more flexible. I would suggest that we do a Wednesday morning. I think we'll be able to do it. I think we'll be able to do it. I think we'll be able to do it on May 19th. As long as we're done by nine. I have stuff on Wednesdays at nine. Yeah. The mornings is a great time, but I'm often busy in the, you know, early morning. I'll just have to leave like I did before. That sounds fine. I think Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or fine with me. Friday's not good for me, but I could do Thursday would be better. Yeah. I was going to offer like, um, I'm, I'm in, I don't mind coming to Amherst, uh, on days that I'm working from home, but I work from the office and Amherst town hall at Tuesdays and Thursdays. Um, So Thursday would work better for you to have. Yeah. If possible. But, um, again, I don't, I don't mind driving in on a Wednesday, but. So Thursday, the 13th of May. Ben. Well, wait a minute. Pat, are you. Do you have. I just have a preference for Wednesdays, but I could do a Thursday. Okay. Yeah. A Thursday morning. Um, would be great. Uh, The 13th or the 6th of May. Possibly. Yeah. I think that would work. Maybe the, uh, I'm sorry. Our meeting is on the. 19. 19. Yeah. So I mean, what about the six? Do you have a preference given that they're both Thursdays of one over the other? Not at this point. No. I can ink it in. And because it's outdoors, I definitely will show up. Okay. The sixth and then the 13th as a rain date in case it's boring. Sure. I like it. Eight o'clock or so. Is that what you're saying? Works for me. Yeah. All right. Eight o'clock on this, on the six. Yeah. And where are we going to meet the entrance by behind Zana's there and that entrance or what? Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. Um, so like you would walk past when he's pleasant. Through that alleyway. Yeah. It's right. It's right behind the sushi place, right? Yeah. Yeah. And the, um, Yeah. Okay. We can actually park in that lot behind. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Email me your phone number, Robin, and I'll call you. I got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was on autopilot. You know, it goes. And I think I will, um, I'll probably post that as a meeting because I think we're, we're going to want to be able to talk about. Yeah. A lot. Whether it's about the. East pleasant street building or the. I don't think we're going to just like sit there, like asking rhetorical questions. We'll look at this. Yeah. If allow time, everybody, if you have it. Uh, and try to bring that map from the conservators. Yeah. Okay. Eight o'clock, May 6th. Yeah. Rain date of the 13th. That's great. Um, all right. So let's move on to the next item, which is Emily Dickinson museum. Restoration project. And I, I, uh, I'm going to move on to the next item. I'm going to step down as chair. At this moment and ask Jan to, um, To assume the chair. Okay. I haven't seen an agenda, but I know that's the item. So let's just move on to. Um, Uh, presentation of work. That's being planned for the Dickinson museum. Thank you very much. There's a, um, uh, Ben sent you a link to, uh, a very fulsome. Set of documents. I. Perhaps overwhelming set of documents. So, um, I am going to take a slightly different approach and, uh, for a, for a brief presentation and. Uh, Convey to you more of the spirit of, of this project, but I'm very, very glad to, um, To respond to questions about the more technical packet. So, uh, I guess first to begin with, um, Um, This is a sort of a explaining a little bit of the process that, uh, Emily Dickinson museum, uh, Is proposing this project and is at this point going through a round of, um, Uh, Uh, Permitting and approvals. Um, our, our process must be that. Um, We have a commission for their review of what happens on site and what happens in the public way. So there's some, uh, Mechanical system things that are going to happen on the site and the really the only. Historic. Restoration piece of this project that is in the public. View is, um, Reinstatement of the 19th century front door. We have just earlier this week, uh, Had a hearing with the local access advisory board. Um, Because of the scale of this project, it's, you know, More than 30% of the value of the building. Um, So that means that we have to take this before the local access advisory board and the Massachusetts architectural advisory board. So these two, um, These two boards are. Kind of loosely connected and in their level within the approval system. Um, the local access advisory board, um, Approved the project with some recommendations about how we could improve, uh, Interpretive, uh, Accessible interpretive tools. At the same time, we need to, uh, Take this project to the Massachusetts historical commission. Because the Emily Dickinson museum. Uh, the historical commission holds a preservation deed restriction on the Emily Dickinson. Homestead, the evergreens and both landscapes. Um, We are not yet at the point of submitting any building permit, which would trigger a, um, Potentially trigger, uh, A demolition, uh, Application. And to tell the truth, I don't know for sure that this project will trigger that. Application because. You know, the thing that's happening on the, On the other hand, The facade is actually a restoration rather than a demolition. So I guess that remains to be seen. But, um, Uh, but I wanted, you know, I certainly wanted, uh, Colleagues on the historical commission to know, uh, As soon as I could bring this project to you. Um, what's going to happen. Um, So let's see other, um, Processes are, uh, site plan review. So we're, we've submitted our, uh, Documentation for that site plan review. Um, The, the, uh, Presentation or the documentation for, uh, Review and approval by the Massachusetts architectural advisory Board. Um, involves, uh, A, uh, documentation of consultation with the local access Advisory Board. And consultation with the local historic. Historical commission. So that's, So this is the kind of the formal. Point of that. Um, Going to the Massachusetts. Architectural advisory board is really a request for, Uh, Regulatory variances. So one of, one of those is a variance, uh, Request for a variance on the requirement to have an elevator. And, um, In our view, an elevator would, um, There is no, In our, in our ultimate restoration plan, There's just simply no space. For an elevator within the building. Um, and it would be absolutely contrary to our preservation. And restoration efforts to, um, Add an exterior elevator column. Uh, and then, uh, thus, there's a second, uh, Variance request, um, having to do, So the elevator is to, um, Make access to the second floor available to visitors. Uh, the second variance request has to do with, um, The door openings. Um, and we, We believe that the door openings are. In most cases, Wide enough for wheelchair use and that there are, um, Sufficient, uh, Routes into the main part of the house that are wide enough so That we're requesting a variance for that. Um, So at this point, I'm going to, um, If I can share screen and I can. I'm just going to, uh, Sort of take you quickly through what the proposed scope of work is. And, uh, And some of the sort of cool things that we've, um, Come upon. During our, um, During our, uh, examination or. Our, uh, research into what this restoration could be. Um, okay. So there we go. So the proposed scope of work is that we're going to restore, uh, The North. And South parlors. And you can see right here. They, uh, this is these two parlors are adjacent to each other. They run the depths of the main block of the house. And I'm going to try to back up. Get back to this always on the first and second floor. So these are the, the large, um, Main hallways that are, you know, very, uh, generous hallways, um, That lead into, um, stair. Uh, staircase openings. Uh, there's a room at the top of the stairs, uh, The stairs that go from the first floor to the second floor. There's a room at the top of the stairs that is unrestored. It has at times, um, Served as an exhibit space and other times as an office, But that is to be restored. Uh, to, to, uh, represent. Uh, the room occupied by Emily Dickinson's mother during the last 10 years of her life when she was an invalid. The stairs from the second floor to the third floor. Are a 20th century innovation. So we are, um, Intending to remove those stairs and to, And to reinstate a staircase that historically in the 19th century. Rose from the second floor to the third floor. In those days in the 19th century, The third floor was actually all attic. Um, and then finally, um, Replacing the heating, ventilation and cooling system. For the main part of the house. Um, at this point, There are only three spaces in that entire main block. That are served by air conditioning. Um, and our goal is to have a system that is, uh, Sophisticated enough to an extensive enough to maintain Temperature and humidity control throughout throughout the house Where we're, Are more of our sensitive collections are going to be displayed. So, um, just this, uh, This is just to highlight in yellow the, um, The main areas of that main block. So the main block is the original 1813 section. Um, Um, Just a square area. That this area and the rear addition are, um, later additions. Um, So these are the spaces intended for restoration on the first floor. And then on the second floor, It's this space along with the stair hall. Uh, at this point, The library here on the first floor that's already been restored on the second floor of the residence room. Uh, that's also been restored. So our goal is to. Basically restore the entire original 1813 block. Um, So some of the fun things we've run across are, um, The, um, original door. Uh, The 19th century door. Uh, which the fat, the, uh, which was removed. Um, And it was, um, Revised in the 20th century by the family that lived there. But this door, the, the 19th century door, mid 19th century door. Um, was stored, it was removed and stored in the, In the loft of the garage behind the homestead. So we've got that door. Um, and want to sort of re, um, Return this whole front entrance to what it looked like. Um, This is the door. Um, and if I go, so this, I don't know, I like fun little details like this, where you see this, You see this little white rectangle here. Mm hmm. That was a name plate. You can see here. And so the name plate has been removed. And there are certain. Kind of oral historical. Suggestions that that name plate exists somewhere, but this is one of the things that, you know, It was most readily identifiable. Um, that, uh, you know, told us this was the, The 19th century door. Um, So here it is. This is a cool kind of East Lake period. Uh, Lock plate here closer up is the, uh, Location of that name plate that I mentioned below all this Alligator finish is this. Really quite nice walnut door. Um, so that can be, that can be restored. Um, The door has a little remnant of it's glass. So we're going to try to have that recreated. Um, This is a photo. This is a photo of, um, A wall paper that was hidden above the level of the ceiling. In the second floor hall. And so we've got, you know, several different generations of wallpaper. This one is kind of an arts and crafty period. This one, uh, Identified by the blue arrow is, um, More of the period of 1855 when Emily Dickinson's father renovated the whole house. Um, and so that, that. This paper can be recreated. Uh, and we're intending to use that in the hallways on the first and second floor. Uh, there you go. This is a little bit. Clearer view of more of the pattern of the paper. And there's a designer's, uh, The first crack at a, uh, Graphic design of that wallpaper since this, since this was done, we've, we've had, uh, uh, A fragment of that wallpaper analyzed and have come to understand that what you see here is this kind of green color. This, uh, this is that was oxidized on the fragment. So this is really a powdered bronze. So that was all that material science is kind of fun. Um, there is, uh, in the evergreens, there was this, um, floor cloth remnant. Uh, we found a modern, not a modern one, but a better preserved remnant of a floor cloth of exactly the same pattern at the collections of historic New England. But then we found, uh, This floor cloth remnant in a closet on the second floor of the evergreens and found, uh, again, a fragment in another collection that's very close to it. But it's, We've decided that this is really a kind of a significant original document for floor coverings. So we are going to reproduce this to put in the front hall of the homestead. Uh, let's see. There's, um, this is sort of digging around at the point of the staircase on the first floor. Uh, and this was to try to determine what, what these, um, Stair treads and risers were like in the, in the 19th century. And the outcome is that that staircase is essentially the 19th century staircase with a couple of additions like these little decorative pieces. And you can see here taking off that decorative piece, this is the original graining. So we're going to reproduce the graining to kind of match the whole second half of the 19th century, um, darker wood mahogany walnut look. I mentioned that we found that front door in the, in the loft of the garage, but we also found the original balusters from the staircase. So we've got about 75% of the original balusters so we can recreate the staircase as it was in the, in the 19th century. And this is all this, that's all pretty nice walnut wood also. Um, So more doors. There's just a lot of doors up there in the garage loft and that's, that's where that front door was and the balusters and some fireplace mantles, um, that we can also restore and reuse. Uh, so just to give you an idea, this is what the front hall of the evergreens looks like, sorry, of the homestead looks like right now. And this is a rendering of, uh, kind of what the vision of it will be. Um, since this artistic rendering we've, we've switched out what the floor cloth is supposed to be. This was that based on that first fragment from the evergreens, but now it's going to be a whole lot busier and, and probably a little bit, um, jarring to our 21st century sensibilities. Um, the homestead parlors, there is a whole, there, there's actually much somewhat less physical evidence, but there's some descriptive, uh, Sort of historical descriptions of what it was, uh, in sort of vague terms of parlor, dark and cold and stiffish. The wallpaper was white with these big figures and a Brussels carpet. Um, so, uh, the wallpaper is, uh, this one is found in a house museum in Maine from the period that we, uh, are aiming for, uh, and the carpet will be similar to this, but not quite this. Um, we have found up an 1840s carpet that, um, here it is, 1840s carpet that it meets the description of the basket of flowers. So that's, uh, Jane, is that upside down? This. The one on the right. The one on the right. Uh, no. Okay. Just, just checking. No, the basket is right side up, but it does, it does have this little, uh, It's an upside down finial. It's an upside down finial. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know, you know, depending on which end of the room you go into, the right to have or can be upside down. Uh, carpet is now being manufactured. Finnial is actually sort of school. Just remembering, oh my God, what fun. Sorry, I shouldn't have interrupted. No. That's fine. Um, okay. So here's a, here's what the homestead parlors look like right now. And here's a preliminary idea of what they will look like. of what they will look like once restored. Wow. Big difference, huh? On the right, you see the staircase to what is now the third floor, but when their time was the attic, this doorway on the left right here, that is a doorway to a kind of a blinder stair that will be reinstated. This staircase is coming out. And the staircase will go in here. What did you call that, a blinder stair? A winder stair, so it goes in and then immediately turns up in a different, yeah. So this is more of a kind of impressionistic, description of what our work will be. This doesn't really include the pieces about the heating ventilation and cooling system, but that's a lot of work that will be tucked away and hidden, but it's an important part of the project also. Jane, what about the information that was in the packet about the floor, the original floors and the original hearthstones? Is that going to be pursued? Yes, we're taking up, so the most of the flooring and the homestead that you can see and walk on when you go in there was put in place in the first quarter, I think of the 20th century. So we'll be taking up that strip flooring and revealing the 19th century floorboards. We've done that in two spaces already in Emily Dickinson's room and in the homestead library. So we'll be taking that up, but we will be putting down new floor coverings. But the idea there is to, even if you don't see those original 19th century floors, the sensory experience of walking on those floors will be valuable. So yeah, the hearthstones in the parlors, we found that there's a layer of cement on top of the original hearthstones. So once the strip flooring comes off, so does that cement layer. So that gets back down to the original hearthstones. And the mantles that you found in the garage, are those going to replace the later ones that are there? The mantles in the parlors are mantles from 1855 when Edward Dickinson did a lot of renovation. The mantles in the garage are, they're mostly kind of federal period mantles. They're wood mantles. And they were removed in the 20th century when the Park family kind of, they blocked up fireplaces on the second floor and removed the mantles. So there is one space, that one Northwest room at the top of the stairs will be putting a mantle back in place in that space. With a fellow fireplace, there won't be any chimney or anything. That, well, the chimney is still there. And to tell the truth, that particular chimney is important to the new HVAC system. So we're actually going to be rebuilding that, we'll be rebuilding the top part of that chimney at the top of the house. But by that time, the Dickinson's were using stove heat on the second floor. So the stove had a pipe that went into the flue and it'll be something more like that. Setting out from that mantle that you replace. Yeah, cast iron, stove. Yeah, right. Nice. It's so exciting. I was looking at it getting more and more excited. I love that you're going down to the original floor and everything. It's actually makes the room tire. Yeah, that's right. And so the doors were cut off. So you have to replace those. That's right. All those, yeah, we have to do a whole lot of Dutchman repairs to the doors. But interestingly, all that 20th century strip flooring was actually cut around the baseboards and the door jams. So, you know, we take that strip flooring up and we get, you know, about this much more baseboard and door jam. Oh, right. And so that actually will be more authentic depth of baseboard. They've always looked a little short. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's right. Setting. Yeah, one kind of subtle piece of all this work is that we have to replace all the ceilings in that part of the house because of the unfortunate event of about 10 years ago when the ceiling in the south parlor just unzipped and fell into the room. So, as I said- Plaster? It was a very heavy early 20th century plaster that had a lot of Portland cement in it. And over the years, all of, you know, the vibrations and all that and the fact that it was a bit underbuilt, had it, you know, it just failed. And at that point to avoid that same misfortune in other spaces, we had to replace all the ceilings with temporary ceilings. And the Mass Historical Commission wants us to make permanent plaster ceilings. So that's- So you're just wallboard right now or something and you have to put in more timely, appropriate, yeah. Right. Wow. A lot of work ahead. Yeah. Exciting. So there's a museum in a closed for quite a while while this is going on? Yes, we'll be closed until, at least until this time next year. Well, we'll be closed, I won't say at least, we'll be closed until spring of next year. You hope. It always takes longer, you know. Thank you. Jane, remind me, because it's been a while since I took a tour of the homestead. Is there a window of time that the house is interpreted to, you know, and is this an attempt to come closer to that, to the sort of authentic decade or two of her writing life, you know, along with having her mom, you know, in a part of the house that is now going to be newly interpreted? Yes, thanks, Hedy. Yes. We're trying to interpret the house as it was during her adult writing years. So she was born in that house and lived there until she was about 10 years old. At that point, her father moved the family to a house right next to the cemetery where the Ren's Moble is now. And then about 15 years after that, when Emily Dickinson was 24 years old, he repurchased the homestead and did a massive renovation of the house. Moved his family back there and that, you know, was where Dickinson lived when she was a working poet. So, you know, we know almost 1800 poems that she wrote and all the handful, we think were written right there at the homestead. So we're wanting to interpret it from the period 1855 when she moved back there until her death in 1886. Great, that's great. I once consulted on a Frank Lloyd Wright house that was looking to install HVAC in it. So it was really complicated and where to put the stuff. But also it was Alabama, so it was pretty critical to put the HVAC system in because there was absolutely no way that anyone would stand for half an hour, let alone an hour and a half to be participating in a tour of the house. And I know that one of the questions that was most concerning was the amount of vibration that these systems can have in historic structures, you know, wood especially. And I'm sure that you're in very good hands when it comes to who you're working with, but that's presumably why the chimney that you were just talking about is considered part of the HVAC system because it's that much more sturdy. Is that the case? Well, it actually is going to serve as a, you know, as a flu for some of the, you know, the evacuation of the excess hot air and steam from the system. Okay. Yeah, a lot of the, so the mechanical parts of that system, the air handling units are for the most part going into the cellar and into spaces on the third floor that are either already used as mechanical spaces or will be repurposed for mechanical spaces so that in a future phase of restoration, the systems can be extended into the rear, into the rear L, into the rear addition. It's a very interesting project in terms of the sort of contrast between all of these quite ephemeral pieces of the project, you know, wallpaper and carpets. And I mean, they can be substantial, but they're decorative. And yet, of course, in this house of any house, they're incredibly important and interesting. And yet you're also doing this mechanical stuff, the HVAC system on the other end. And I'm just really curious about how you, I love the way you've talked about it tonight. It was a lot easier to listen to you describe it having been in the house without having to read a lot of the materials that Ben so helpfully added to the documents page of the website for us. I just think what an amazing opportunity this is to guide us all through this interpretation because one thing I learned having been involved in a fair number of projects, not on the scale is the kinds of things we can learn about the building, but also about the kinds of work that are done on buildings or the kinds of careers that you can have to interpret. You mentioned the material science of the oxidizing of the wallpaper and things like that. So even though you're closed, I'm hoping, because I've really loved all of the things that the museum has been doing online since the pandemic, hoping that you embrace the continuing online presence of the museum in terms of what's going on during the time that the project is in play and that we almost won't feel that you're closed. I guess is what I'm saying. Because I've felt that in the last year with the Emily Dickinson Museum, I think you've been an amazing presence in the online community, not just academically, but creatively and in so many ways. And I hope that that will be a part of how you're thinking. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. It's just so exciting to hear about it, as Dan said. Yeah, thanks so much for that, Heddy. When the pandemic struck, we'd been thinking for a few years about, oh, well, we ought to get into remote programming. That was just one of those things you don't quite get to. And then we were forced to do it. And it has been a real boon. It's just been an incredible silver lining for us. At the same time, this whole last year when we were closed, we had already done, we were in the very, very early stages of a long range planning process. And we were able to complete that long range plan, which takes us out 15 to 20 years. And one of the, it's a really exciting plan, really, really visionary. But one of the important pieces that is probably a little bit underrepresented in that plan, but is ever more important, is a kind of virtual or online or remote presence. That we know at this point, there's no turning back from that. It's got to be an important part of what we do going forward. So I think, you know, I, I hope we will be that, be there and be that presence that shoot, that you're, that has meant something to you on this past year. I agree with Eddie. It'd be nice if besides the events that you host online and everything, if there were just sort of an ongoing blog about what's going on with the construction, some of these images that you showed us and information about the wallpaper and everything would be fun for the public to, it would also build interest for them to come back and see it when it's done, but it'd be nice stress for us to follow. And I just wanted to ask one quick thing. And then we're getting late. So we should wrap this up. You're, you're going to have the, the carpet's down permanently and people will be walking around them all year round. These aren't going to be like winter and summer, because I know in summer they used to put down like matting instead. You're just going to have a carpet all the time. Yeah, I think so it right now in a couple of spaces, both in the homestead and the evergreens, there is matting on the, on the floorboards. I mean, it's the original matting. It's newer matting. But I think it's going to be on. It's just going to be really logistically difficult for us to take up the carpets. We'll put them down. We'll have. Okay. Dugets and, you know, other. Kind of protect pathways to, to protect the carpets. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. We don't necessarily have to discuss it now given the time, but I'm just curious about the decision-making behind the I don't know if we want to move that discussion to the next meeting, but I can imagine what a challenge it is on both sides of the issue. And I'm just curious how the decision comes down one way or the other. Yeah, the the reason, the principal reason that we want the variance, and I should say that we have, we have had this variance before. In 2016, we requested both of these variances and were granted these variances, but because this project is the scale of the project exceeds 30% of the value of the building, you know, we have to go back and right again. So the rationale for this is that it is not possible to put an elevator into the building without significantly damaging the usability and the restoration goals of the of the building. And without significantly changing, for example, the roofline, if we, you know, if we have to put an elevator in, we have to put a shaft in. And you can't work with an exterior addition. That is unacceptable because of the the intrusion of that and and the injury to the exterior integrity of the building. I mean, this is, you know, federal style building, windows everywhere. It's just not that big. If it were a bigger building, it'd be different. It's just such a small house to try and. Right, right. I was curious. There's just no place for an exterior elevator shaft that would not significantly impair the integrity of what is a national historic landmark. Right, right. Okay. Thank you. Talk to us about the landscape proposal at some point. What's that? You said there was landscaping renovation and stuff too. You're going to tell us about that another time. I can tell you about that another time. I got, you know, a couple of slides on this PowerPoint, but we might be running short of time. But what the goal of that project, let me just sort of finish up on the on the accessibility piece. So it's incumbent on us to provide alternate methods of interpretation or content delivery for visitors who can't ascend to the second floor. And that can happen in a variety of ways. One way is that we have a printed notebook. Another way is that we have an iPad presentation. A third way is that we have museum assistants or guides who stay on the first floor level and part of their job there is to talk with visitors who can't go upstairs about what it is that they're, you know, what's up there? What can they not see? I mentioned we just had a hearing with the local access advisory board to support this variance request. And they had a number of really terrific suggestions for us about how to, you know, how to enhance that, how to enhance accessibility for people with various disabilities that, you know, they might need tactile exhibits, things that they can touch. We've just gotten a grant to to improve a virtual tour on our website. So that virtual tour would have, you know, the goal there is to have some audience, is to have it available by audio and alt text. So that's to adapt what's already on the website or to create a new tour to create. It would essentially be a new tour. Our website is pretty oriented toward kind of disparate educational materials or disparate essays. But this would be to bring information together in a way that actually takes you through an experience of the buildings. And so that's been a weakness of our website for some time. This will help that. So the landscape piece. The objective of that is to reinstate, there was a path between the homestead and the evergreens that is pretty well documented in photographs and was, signifies the close relationship between the two houses, but also is identified by a quotation from Emily Dickinson herself who said that it was a path just wide enough for two who love. And so that's just become a kind of a kind of an iconic statement. So that's a goal there. And that's paired with a plan to add architectural lighting to both the homestead and the evergreens to make them sort of pop more as important cultural site in Amherst. So I've got some fun stuff to show about that and a really great story of conflict between the parks in Martha Dickinson and Bianchi, but we can save that for another time. This was very interesting, Jane. It's so exciting. I can't wait to see the finished result. Thank you, Pat. It is pretty exciting. It's a little bit of a white knuckle ride at the moment, but I can imagine you've got a lot of hurdles to cross. So I have a formal request of you as the Historical Commission, and that is if you could pen a, I don't know, a two-sentence endorsement of this project for the Massachusetts Architectural Advisory Board, I would be very grateful. And I aired in not coming here prepared with those two sentences. We can do them. From Massachusetts Historical, what board? I'm sorry, is that what you said? Architectural? Yeah, similar to the North Amherst Library project, I think also requested a variance, and they're going through a similar process, too, as well. Well, you can't write that. Do you want me to write that? Super. And then he sends it to Ben, and he can put it on town letterhead from us. And then give it to you, or send it to the address that you give us for the board. I think send it straight to the address for the board, and Ben, you probably have that address, but I can give it to you. And should it be copied to you, Jane? Is the director? Yes. Yeah, for your finals and stuff, yeah. Yeah, thank you. Okay, and so then, let's see, I just, so I would sign it as vice chair, since you've recused yourself about this for the commission, and then copy you and copy Ben for the town, right? Yes, right, right. Okay. And on behalf of the Historical Commission. Right, on behalf of the Historical Commission, and if you all want, I can come up with a couple sentences and run it by you before I finalize the letter. However legally, you can do that, that's great, but, Jan, I think you probably are the, you know, one of the people on this commission who are very able to do that. Well, I'll run it by Jane, just to be sure she's happy with what we say. I don't want to say something that doesn't work for your purposes, but. Sure. Jan, I can send you the language of the two articles that we are, for which we are requesting a variance that. Okay. I'm not sure that was, that probably wasn't in the local historic district package. Okay. Yeah, so I'll write it up tomorrow so that it's fresh in my mind. Yeah, okay, thank you. Great. Thanks very much. Okay, I think you're in the meeting back over to Jane and close our agenda. We've got a public comment though, so. Yes. So, so I might be looking at an older version of the agenda. So if you could banner Robin. Yeah, what do we have remind me do we have. Okay, yeah, so there is one more item. And I'm, yeah, I mean, basically I just wanted to extend an invitation to the historical commission to view the civil war tablets now that they've been moved to bank center and are, you know, nicely displayed on these beautiful a frames. And so, yeah, I think it's not super urgent, you know, given we have another site visit if we want to wait on it, but. It's not just open to us anytime right. Yeah, we would have to. Yeah, we would have to just arrange for someone to open the room, which is very easy, but it would, you know, just for the sake of it would be nice to kind of all do it together so I don't have to keep asking for the room to be opened. And so I'm, I'm going to skip ahead for a second we we do have a demolition application that was submitted. And I can talk more about that but I think we're going to want to do a site visit for that for and it will probably review it next meeting. I think yeah, we need to review it at the next meeting. Um, so all of a sudden, you know, I'm like proposing three, three site visits for before next meeting. So I, I, yeah, if people are open to that we can, I'm, you know, able to do that but the Civil War tablets seems to be the least urgent of the three, although I mean some people have been waiting like 20 years to see the tablet. So there's also a lot of excitement around them. So that's all basically. Is there just to throw this idea out there, would there, would anyone be interested in combining the West Cemetery site visit with the Civil War tablet site visit? How late can you get to work, everybody? Because we could just go on that day. Works for me but I think some other people had issues at nine, I don't know. Yeah, I, it's really hard for me. I, I sort of need to be around when the cook and the cleaner and every, you know, I just, it's just that kind of start the day off right thing at work and, and it's, it was hard last time when I had to come to look at the building, the nice Columbus thing. It, I just, I just felt like a real sense of divided loyalty. So that was. What time of the day works best for you, Hetty, if any? Afternoon is good, early evening, you know, now that the evenings are getting lighter. Yeah. I don't know if anyone's, I know it's a, the wrong end of the day in some ways for things like this. Well, maybe on a day before everybody is totally finished, we've worked a little early for 430. Something like that. Does that work, Jane, Ben, Robin? In general, that would work for me on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And those are the days you're in, right, Ben? Yep, yeah. So what if we were to do all three site visits in the late afternoon on the day we were going to do the early morning one? Yep. On the 6th. On the 6th, instead of, instead of meeting at 8, because that's difficult for Hetty, if we met at 4 or 430, whatever works for those of you who have a work schedule. And I think a couple hours to do everything we're talking about. So we'd have to start maybe with the Civil War tab. Let's see them quickly and then move on to the other stuff. Whatever order everyone thinks is good, but if we have three site visits, if we can compact it into one meeting and do it at a time when Hetty is comfortable to be there, I could do that on the 6th. I wouldn't mind combining the demolition site visit and the cemetery, but maybe we maybe put the Civil War tablets off. I mean, I'm a little concerned that will be kind of worn out and not, I don't know, not quite reverential enough. You know, Robin, you're right, because the Civil War tablets aren't time sensitive. Right. But if we, the demolition review site visit and the other site visits are time sensitive. So maybe do those two in the afternoon, late afternoon, whatever time you all can start, that shouldn't take more than an hour or so. Yeah. I mean, if some of us want to use that map and go through the headstones bit by bit with Bend, everybody doesn't have to stay for that. Yeah. Having just said that Tuesdays and Thursdays are good for me, Thursday the 6th is the only one of those days where I have a 430 to 530 obligation. Sure you do. I'm good on Tuesday the 4th. Yeah, be meeting. How about the 13th, May the 13th? That works for me. Yeah, in the afternoon I could do it, not the morning. That works for me. That works for me. Okay, let's say 4 o'clock then. What are you saying, Tim? 4 o'clock. Does that work, honey? Yep. Because it'll be like for a while. That's good. Yeah, that sounds great. We'll do the Pleasant Street site. We'll do the cemetery and we'll do the demolition site. But maybe do the demolition site first because we're going to end up at the cemetery with the Pleasant Street view. Well, we're in the cemetery when we look at the demolition. What's the demolition site? She's talking about the 11 East Pleasant, right? No, I'm talking about, Ben said we have... Oh, demolition request. So maybe we should do that first and then go to the East Pleasant and the cemetery. And maybe make Tuesday the 18th the rain date then? Okay. Because we need a rain date. Yeah, so that sounds good to me. We don't have to believe or talk about in-depth too much because I don't know the details fully, but the demolition will be familiar to folks. It's unfortunate because it's a nice house, but it's the 462 Main Street where the carriage house was. I believe you all put a delay on the carriage house and then lifted it. But they're proposing to demolish the house. We knew that was going to happen. The units in there, don't they? Wow. We asked about that chance. Yeah. They went for the site visit and they said, oh, no, no, no. All this house, we're going to maintain it blah, blah, blah. Probably listening. We should be careful. Yeah. So... Well, that's all right. The intent at the time was that it was going to be maintained. Yeah. Well, we don't have to approve it right away. We'll see. Exactly. Yeah. So we'll go there first. We'll start at first, too, Ben. Okay. Yeah. And I'll shoot John Robleski an email and kind of get that on his radar as well. We'll meet there at four o'clock on the 13th. Or if it's raining, we'll meet there at four o'clock on the 18th. And then we'll go on to the Pleasant Street West Cemetery. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody can make that rain date if it comes to it. Yep. Okay. All right. So great. I'm glad that's all worked out. And so now we will invite public comment. If there's any... I don't see anyone in the... Okay. You're like, gave up? Yeah. Yeah, there might be one other demolition. They haven't submitted their full application yet, but it's a house literally on the border of Shootsbury and Amherst. I think like it's actually straddling the border on Leverett Road. And it's an older couple that kind of just doesn't need the structure anymore. So I'll try to move that process along to see what their intentions are. They want to move forward with it, but there might be another application to review for that meeting as well. Does that mean we get a joint meeting with the Shootsbury Historical Commission? Yeah. I don't know how it works. I think maybe like there's a third of the building that they can definitely demolish without Are there any unanticipated items? I was just going to say one thing about finding new members. Obviously, we're short to the... I talked to Angela Mills. She's the town manager's executive assistant and kind of like runs the process of soliciting new members. She was saying like in the past 90 days, no one has submitted an application and checked the box for either historical or local historic district. So they don't... At this point, they don't have anything on file for like someone who's shown interest in volunteering for the board. So I kind of asked her like, what do we do? How do we handle the situation? And she recommended first starting with the current board members and asking if to just like re-help with any recruitment, if you know people who might be interested and haven't served before or... Or have served in the past? Or have served in the past. Yeah, for that matter, have served in the past. So I thought there's kind of... There's the application of the citizen activity form in a process to kind of submit your intent. So that is available on the town's website. I can email the link out. But if you all have anyone in mind, certainly I think they'll maybe keep it open until they get like a critical number of applications and then do the interviews. I don't know what that number is exactly, but maybe it's two. I don't know. So yeah, I thought I'd start there and then maybe put out an email to like the... There's like the Western Mass like architecture group. There's certainly maybe like Pioneer Valley historical organizations. I'm not totally sure, but maybe just start putting out information. Of course, they do have to be Amherst residents. So yeah. I think in the past, an announcement of that kind has been put on the town. Yeah, the thing is there's so many vacancies right now. I think even the Planning Board and Zoning Board of Appeals have impending vacancies. So I did see that there is some announcements on the website and social media, but it lists like 10 different boards. And I feel like historical kind of gets lost in there a little bit. So yeah, that's yeah. So yeah. There is a kind of Pioneer Valley history network that I can put something out on it. Okay. Well, I can all draft up an email and send it to you guys. That kind of shows like the where to click here if you're interested kind of thing. And then you all can send that out to whomever. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Beth. Robin, do you want to comment at all on the... We can put this on the next agenda, but do you want to comment on the procedure process that you've... For the Mill River. Yeah. I sent that. I guess I just sent that to you and Ben. I'm just trying to define a framework that fits within the guidelines for eligibility and funding for CPA projects for the Mill River project. And I just finally pulled together a draft kind of proposal for how they could come forward and request funding. And it involves administrative... CPI funding from the administrative budget category, which is different from historic preservation. So it's a beginning... My beginning attempt to say is this kind of a good way to move forward. So if Ben could... I just got it out today. So if Ben could forward it and we can talk about it at the next committee. We can go from there. But hopefully I wrote something that was clear enough that will help drive the discussion. Okay. Thank you. We'll put that... Yeah. That's a good thing to discuss, address that. Finally, the next meeting date and we have that. So, yes, what's left? Fine move. We adjourn. I second. All in favor? Aye. No roll call needed. Thank you so much. Aye. Yeah. Thank you, Jane. Thank you. Thank you all. Look forward to seeing you all in person. Yeah. For site visits. Good night, everybody. And don't forget to send me the minutes in your room. And Jane, I'm sending you an email right now. So you haven't finished yet. Okay. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you. Good night, everybody.