 Yeah, everyone else would just be speaking, and we've got a great line of speakers who are actually directly working with NTFP's. And we're very pleased to have these speakers, because they really know what we're talking about. First, Dr. Rajaparachari, little chairman of the IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, but also the Director General of the Energy and Research Institute of India's premier environmental institutions. They really know the scene in India, as well as a part of climate change on Earth and agriculture. Then there's Dr. Dhoni Woot, who is a DG at the Ministry of Forestry in Indonesia. Also, he is on the part of council members of the International Network of Boundaries. He'll give us the picture of what's happening in Indonesia, what needs to be done, what is being done, and finally, there's Dr. Hans Friedrich, who is the Director General of the International Network of Boundaries in Rata. Now, with Dr. Friedrich, it's kind of interesting to see how he manages the environment. His background is with the conservation organization, which is also part of this whole discussion. How do we conserve, how do we use, how do we make sure that we're keeping enough stocks in the future? So, with that, if this is my last speech, I don't need to speak for about 10-15 minutes. After that, if there's a question, I'll have a general discussion. I will then try and sum up if there is something that needs to be summed up. Otherwise, if you have any questions, you can ask them. Thank you very much. I'm very happy that we're discussing this subject which is often ignored and doesn't get the kind of attention it deserves. But clearly, if you look at the lives of a large number of people, they are intimately connected with what happens to this whole sector. As a matter of fact, if one goes back maybe 200 years or so, you would find that there's been a progressive and highly measurable decline in our stock of bamboo and data. And that's essentially because there have been substitutes developed for a large number of products and uses that were dependent on the growth of bamboo and data. As a result, communities and societies have neglected what was earlier on an absolutely crucial part of their lives. What's going to be a major influence in the future is going to be climate change, which is essentially human-induced. And as you're aware, the IPCC has brought out three parts of its fifth assessment report. We have yet to bring out the synthesis report which is essentially, as the name suggests, a synthesis of all the three working group reports that have come out so far. And that will be completed at the end of October this year. But I'd like to acquaint you with some of the major findings of the reports that have come out. And these have major implications for all species on the planet Earth, and therefore also on bamboo and data. Firstly, let me say that the warming of the climate system is unequivocally. This is something that is beyond the bounds of any reasonable intellectual or scientific debate. And since the 1950s, many of the observed changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia. So in other words, in a short period of time, we have affected the climate of this planet at a rate that we have not seen for millennia. The atmosphere and oceans are formed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished, sea level has risen, and the concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased. Just to give you one indicator, CO2 at the beginning of industrialization was about 280 parts per million in the atmosphere. In May of last year, this figure crossed 400 parts per million. So there's been roughly a 40% increase in the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, and you have almost similar increases that have taken place with other greenhouse gases. And most of these are the result of human activities. I also want to highlight the fact that each of the last three decades has been successively warmer at the Earth's surface than any preceding decade since 1850. So as a matter of fact, the last three decades have been the warmest that we have seen, very likely for over 1400 years in terms of the increase that's taken place. So that's quite substantial. 19 centimeters is a very large increase to have taken place since the beginning of the last century. And it's been much faster over the last two decades. I also want to mention that since the early 1970s, glacier mass loss and ocean thermal expansion from warming, to get the explain about 95% of the observed low to deep sea level rise. And if you want to look at how the concentration of greenhouse gases has increased in a geological time frame, then really speaking, the atmosphere concentration of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide has increased to levels unprecedented in at least 800,000 years. So the previous time when we had these geoconcentrations, which was for very different reasons, was about 800,000 years ago. And it's also true that about 30% of the concentration of greenhouse gases has really gone into carbon dioxide in particular, gone into the ocean. Now that's led to acidification. And this has very serious implications for marine life of all forms. Here again, this may not seem to impact directly on bamboos and Kurata. But the basic fact is that we're all part of an integrated earth system. And therefore one part of the earth is affected, that means the oceans. And that also has implications for land surfaces. Now I also want to mention that Arctic sea ice has been decreasing at a very rapid rate. As a matter of fact, the Arctic has been warming at twice the rate of the rest of the globe. And it's very likely that Arctic sea ice will continue to shrink and thin. And that the northern hemisphere spring snow cover will decrease during the very first century as global mean surface temperature rises. In fact, some models clearly show that we would have a nice free Arctic ocean in September before mid-century. This is particularly so for a scenario. We have got four different scenarios in the IPCC Fifth Assessment Board. And this is particularly true for the scenario, which is essentially a do-nothing scenario. In other words, we continue to increase our emissions of greenhouse gases and really take no action to mitigate them effectively. So you can imagine what this really implies because if Arctic sea ice is well vanished in the month of September before the middle of this century, then that has major implications for temperatures and climatic variables in other parts of the world as well. Let me go to some other aspects. The impacts of climate change, of course, have taken several manifestations. One of them is the fact that crop yields have been more common in terms of negative values than positive. Because with higher CO2 emissions, there is also a fertilization effect that takes place with plants. Because the higher the CO2, generally you would expect much greater growth as a result. But overall, the impact of temperature increase has generally been overwhelming with respect to this fertilization effect. So the point I'm trying to make is that food security is likely to be compromised. And if that happens, you can imagine as you heard from Dr. Kulkarni, a large number of people are dependent from their food, fiber, fodder, on the forests. And therefore, as a result, you would find that there would be in some sense a multiplier effect in terms of food security being compromised, both on account of agriculture being affected negatively. And of course, forests also suffering as a consequence of changes in temperature and other climate variables. Now climate-related hazards also are going to be important because these will directly affect the livelihoods, particularly of the poor. And there would of course also be reductions in copies or destruction of homes and indirectly through, for example, increased food prices and food insecurity. Here I want to highlight that two types of extreme events are going to increase in the future. These are heat waves as well as extreme precipitation events. In fact, the increase in frequency and intensity of these has already been there for the past few decades, but this is going to become far more accentuated in the future. Now when you have, let's say, extreme precipitation events, then that clearly has major implications for ecosystems and their stability. And I'll give you an example. In the case of India, we've got a large area of land which is under the Himalayan system. And what has happened typically is human intervention, which has carried out major deforestation, at least in the upper and medium slopes of the Himalayan range. And at the same time, with an increase in extreme precipitation events, there's been much greater denudation, much greater erosion of soil colour. Now as a result of that, you not only have a sedication of our river systems downstream, but you also have a reduction in the ability of mountain streams and the collection of water along the slopes of the Himalayan range. And that has major implications for forests and ecosystems in general. Now I just want to end by saying that fortunately there is also an enormous opportunity here because forests and bamboos and rattan in particular are great sources of storage of carbon dioxide. And I think under Red Plus, if there is a clear identification of these opportunities and therefore an implementation of projects related to Red Plus, then clearly there would be much greater attraction in the conservation, in the growth and the use of some of these stocks. I might mention, and this is the final point I want to make, that in the Working Group 3 report of the IPCC which has come out, we have placed much greater emphasis on mitigation in the AFOLU sector. AFOLU stands for Agriculture, Forestry and Land Use. And what we have highlighted is the fact that in agriculture there is clearly a great deal of scope for mitigating emissions of greenhouse gases. Reducing deforestation is absolutely crucial and the expansion of forestry area or afforestation is also extremely important. Now if we were to seize some of these mitigation opportunities, then clearly there would be an expansion of the stock of some of the species that we are talking about. And overall there would also therefore be enhancement of human welfare, particularly of societies who are directly dependent on some of these resources. So I think in the future we would have to ensure that there is a combination of adaptation measures as well as mitigation. To deal with the problem of climate change would be based on a clear understanding and a projection of some of the impacts of climate change and therefore translating that into adaptation measures because there is a certain inertia in the system as a result of which climate change will continue even if we bring about radical reduction in emissions today. And that in itself will not be enough, we will also have to start immediately with adequate mitigation measures. And I think the advantage with bamboo and rattan and essentially forestry species is that you can barely out-adaptation as well as mitigation simultaneously by focusing on these species which are really an enormous resource for human society. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Dr. Pichori. We will just move on rapidly moving from the global picture to the national picture with Dr. Pichori who will tell us about what is happening in Indonesia. Thank you very much. First of all I would like to thank Dr. Pichori for sending us an Indonesian strategy on the development of non-timber forest products. I think this is very important for us from the global to the national work we have done so far. We have so many non-timber forest products and then we have to manage and develop the strategy. Since the era of the thousands, Indonesia has shifted the forest management paradigm from timber mismanagement into resource-based management. The reason is only 10% compared to 90% of the total value of non-timber forest products. The consequence is that in the forest management we have to pay more attention not only to timber but also non-timber forest products and all commodities obtained from forests have to cut down. There are three ministerial degrees regarding non-timber forest products. These are number 35, 2007, regarding non-timber forest products from forestry and the number regarding national strategy for the development of non-timber forest products. The addition also the minister of forestry issued very importantly 39, regarding important partnership including on the management of non-timber forest products. Instructing all forest permit orders to give access and partnership to forest village communities on their forest area management. Ladies and gentlemen, the non-timber forest, our daily life for example for food, fire, energy, medicine as well as for climate change, mitigation and adaptation. We have identified more than 565 items of non-timber forest products. Consist of 490 flora and 75 fauna, four in Indonesia's forest which are classified into medicinal and 65 non-timber forest products, simple foundation in Indonesia, it is almost impossible. Indonesia has developed non-timber forest products management strategy. Making development from provincial level as well as textile level and also making cluster of non-timber forest products development to become models non-timber forest products. Clustering development upstream to downstream industry divided into four steps, infrastructure creation. Moshukot also the central provincial and district government level because non-timber forest products strategy. There are the development such as issues on the economic data and formation of potential and utilization. Issue on across sectoral integration and policy and issue on upstream and downstream industry development. Issue on availability of resource cultivation and processing technology and still many others to be resolved I think in the near future. So output for non-timber forest product development in Indonesia then come enhancing the wireless and protecting forest. Creating more job opportunities, increasing number and right day of non-timber forest products and values such as for food, fiber, medicine, energy, better biodiversity conservation and carbon monostabilization as well as the greater system and inflation for anti-abuse development in place. Finally, optimizing non-timber forest product development hopefully will lead to better sustainable forest management and for photos to just basically help with my presentation if you will and it's not a way to relate. What I want to talk to you about is basically NTFP's and ecosystem services. And if we go back to 2002 millenium ecosystem assessment basically define what ecosystem services are, provisions, regulating and one of the most important bonds is presumably food security. Nature provides food. And food is not just, as we've already heard during the opening plenary and again just now in our discussion, not just a question of irrigated agriculture and large grain food crops. Food is also found in other places. For example, some research we did in Atapur in the lower Laos show that all the protein that low people get there basically comes from nature, comes from the wetlands, comes from the forests. It's not bought, it's not grown. It's effectively not timber forest products. In India, NTFP is a major commodity, major business, large markets, lots of money involved. But NTFP is not just a poor man's food. If you look at Japan or Europe, mushrooms are a delicacy, a highly priced delicacy, a very expensive delicacy. So NTFP's are important for food and basically therefore if you think about a forest ecosystem service, again the whole trend over the last hours has been we need to look at the landscape, we need to look at the bigger picture. A forest is not just a stand of timber. It's an ecosystem with a whole range of services that are important and NTFP should be considered when you talk about sustainable management of forest resources. I'm the Director General of INVAR, the International Network for Bamu and Rata. So I want to talk a little bit about bamboo, one of the most important maybe NTFPs and an NTFP that has lots of interesting aspects. Going back to where we started, bamboo is a food source. Bamu's shoots are basically a staple food crop in China. Bamu shoots appear every year. Mosul, which is the prominent species of bamboo in China, has new shoots appearing every spring. And they basically can be harvested. Now there are about 2,000, 3,000 bamboo poles per hectare and the shoots effectively are the same sort of number. You can harvest half of them because basically due to space, nutrition and competition half of them will die otherwise. So it's a good business. Mosul, as I said, density of one and a half to 4,000 per hectare. As you see other bamboo have a much higher density. This is a complication, there are 12,000 different species and the ones that are very dense are basically what we call clump numbers. These are numbers that grow in clumps rather than the mosuls that close in individual species. In individual poles, I should say. But therefore it is a food source. Once the shoots that have not been harvested have grown and this for bamboo is a question of months. I mean a bamboo pole basically is as high as it will ever grow in several months. It then hardens over a couple of years and after four years you can start cutting and then you can cut it again and again and again every year. So it's an amazingly sustainable crop. A bamboo is used, everything is used. There's no way since basically the tops are used for fodder, as you can see smaller bits are used for small items. Waste is used for charcoal, I'll get back to that. And the main thing is the big pole that's used for construction. And when I say construction it's no longer just talking about traditional round pole bamboo housing or furniture. We now make what's called engineered bamboo. These are structural beams, they are wood panels, that basically stand the test of time just like a wood product. So bamboo is becoming a very important traded commodity. The important figures are in 2012 that the export trade of bamboo and other products was 1.8 billion US dollars. And that's a major under estimate. Because this is based on figures in the UN contract database. Not all countries actually list their bamboo products and the main issue is that in many countries bamboo still is sold as wood. So these are figures that we get from the statistics but we know it's non-resting. We're presumably talking about 2.5 billion international trade and only China has an internal market of something like 1, 1.5 billion on top of that. So presumably we're talking about 4 to 5 billion or so, we're not exactly sure. You see the debt, that was basically the economic crisis but it's coming back up and we think that with the interest in Europe and the USA for ecological products bamboo trade will go up drastically. Two other things about bamboo. One, as I mentioned earlier, you can make charcoal out of bamboo and you can use it for an engine. Not just charcoal, you can also use bio gas and basically put it in a digestive. But it is a source of energy, particularly for poor communities which has not really been explored in the fullest and it's a major opportunity and people can grow bamboo on their homestead, around the school, in the lower garden and make it into charcoal. And the other thing, we've already talked a bit about climate change. Sorry, I should go back. The actual value of charcoal is not much better than with charcoal. This has been one of the big debates. The issue is that the raw product is so much more environmentally friendly because bamboo in its natural condition doesn't eat fertilizer, it doesn't need irrigation and it doesn't beat normally with agricultural food crops. The other thing is climate change. We talked a bit about it. This is a graph to give you an idea about the mitigation aspect of bamboo. Bamboo absorbs carbon just like any other plant. But because you cut it so fast and so regularly, over a period of time the absorption capacity is higher than most trees. The other thing is, of course, adaptation. I mean bamboo again because of the fast growth and the effect it's easily harvested and easily maintained is a major opportunity for adaptation to the effects of climate change. So a very important aspect, as Dr. Pachauri said, not really explored the fruits by the convention, and we hope that that will change. Do we know everything about bamboo? No, definitely not. There's still a lot of research to be done. And this is done really by universities, by research institutions, by the scientists. There's also a lot of research being done about how you can actually make money out of bamboo. New designs. These things are sold to the French luxury market at enormous prices. And it's basically weaving from bamboo. And then, of course, there's all the different uses of bamboo. This incident is originally the easier. I thought I should have a picture of your own country. So there's still a lot to be known. A lot to be explored. And one of the issues is that basically, yes, I think Manosh said earlier, bamboo is a crop, but the Ministry of Agriculture don't really see its relevance. Because it's not a food crop. It looks like a tree, but it's not timber. So the Ministers of Forest, we also feel that it's not really their responsibility. It falls a little bit between two stools. And this applies not just to bamboo, but to most NTFPs. So on the basis of that, you've got all these different people actually having an interest in bamboo. Sustainable management of NTFPs requires a lot of collaboration. So just to conclude, or to recap, forests are not just stands of timber. They have many ecosystem functions. NTFPs should be included in sustainable forest management. Bamboo has lots of benefits and values, but not everybody knows about them. NTFPs are neither agricultural crops, nor timber stands. And therefore management of NTFPs requires collaboration and partnerships. Thanks a lot. I'm also pleased that everyone kept within their time. What I'd suggest now is that you can take some questions from the audience, and then maybe have a little time for speakers to address each other's points of answer. First, I'll just start by looking at a couple of questions that you may see provocative, but this is something of interest. Dr. Pochuri, I think I'm interested in working with the IPCC as well as Terry. I mean, you're famous for bringing together or holding together a bunch of scientists who may disagree with everything else and with this sort of primacy of the role of science, do you see any role, I think, for ordinary people and people who talk about NTFPs? Do they have anything to contribute to the discussion or has the discussion become a high-level discussion where all the research is being done and I think it's interesting and I know you're rooting for what ordinary people are. People always talk about the harvest, the medicinal plants. Do they also have something to contribute? Well, I think as far as climate change is concerned, it affects the lives of every human being in all living species on this planet and therefore, even though there's a very high level of scientific knowledge that's required to understand, assess and project climate change, particularly when it comes to looking a hundred years into the future. In actual fact, it has to be brought down to the level of the average person on the street because unless people understand what the realities of climate change are, you're not going to get the kind of response that is required to deal with the problem and this is a major challenge. You know, the scientific community has not really focused in the past on communicating the results of what they're doing. And this is something that we're trying to do now in the IPCC but the IPCC has a very clean structure in its organization. You'd be surprised, our permanent secretary is no more than a dozen people and we really mobilize scientific talent from all over the world for an assessment and these are thousands of people. In fact, those directly involved in the fifth assessment report number a little over 800 authors and review editors. The point I'm trying to make is that the IPCC by itself is not equipped, does not have the capacity to communicate all the science that is carried out by thousands of scientists, 800 of direct authors but there are many others who are so-called contributing authors many many more who are expert reviewers so the numbers all together are very very large. What we need are partner organizations we need organizations like INBAR which can sort of go out and inform their own constituencies of the impacts of climate change. So what I'm suggesting is if you were to pick up the findings of the IPCC reports and then convert them into communications material for different sections of society I think that would serve an extremely vital purpose and we need to do that now and get partners across the globe to be able to do that. Julia, one thing I wanted to ask you you made a list of some of the NTFPs and spoke about how you needed to have priorities How do you prioritize NTFPs knowing that people's livelihoods they get small businesses may suffer if you don't give them priority so how can you take that sort of decision for let's say all the way from Papua to Aceh what is going to be important what is worth looking at because once you get government support there's also money and financials Minister how do you prioritize NTFP nationally provincial level district level so we have four or five indicators into consideration how about the value of the economics value and also about the environment about the social and also about the the existing capacity where they live in this area and many others that we need this kind of and then we finally hit numbers and then by this instrument that we kind of and agrees to be developed nationally or provisionally this is just on the to make prioritization which one earlier than others there are so many NTFPs more than 565 to become the national program we have six greatest stakeholders to be a national program and Hans what problem with bamboo and some things that you are showing is that what are the opposite of aspirationalism you want to use bamboo that's a furniture something until you can afford copper wood you eat stales until you can have chicken wrapped in plastic or to the supermarket these are always seen as things that are or lower classes for undeveloped people how do you convince people that bamboo is something that's important how do you convince them this is worthwhile doing by tea furniture bamboo furniture is solid is that a problem I wouldn't say it's a problem but you are quite right that some people still call bamboo poor I would call it smart I think basically the issue is that what we can do with bamboo now is to make problems that look as good as anything made from traditional materials if you look at some of the flooring that is being made in Central China and sold to Europe it's flooring in any of you wanting to ask the challenge there is that bamboo is not yet cheap I know what you are saying is the products look cheap and in the past that was maybe the case I remember when I was a student yes bamboo was the only thing you could afford the issue is that some of this engineer bamboo the the modern design bamboo is no longer cheap and I think therefore the issue is how do you convince people to basically not buy tea but buy bamboo is a question of awareness rating it's a question of explaining to people why using bamboo actually is much better than using forest and it's you know it's a double value but it's as simple as that because on the one hand you're using a crop which does not affect the environment and using bamboo is good for the crop but the other thing is that using more bamboo means you use less wood so it helps directly to combat deforestation and I think that is an argument that a lot of people will actually understand but it's something that we haven't really got across yet so I think we have to explain that better you know if you go back in time it was Mahatma Gandhi who popularized hand-looked cloth and then of course the best designer, the best marketing people got into the act today you can buy the best textile and you know all the synthetic stuff and produce clothes from them but often well-designed hand-looked clothing costs much more and people attach a much larger value to it so I think what you really need over here please correct me if I'm wrong is the best talent going into the design of products, marketing it and essentially seeing that in people's perceptions there's a premium attached to the use of this so I think this is really a task for designers, advertisers and marketing people so that power perceptions change about bamboo and that will make an enormous difference with the whole cycle of production conversion and marketing Introduce yourselves, say who the question is for and we'll take a few questions before we start. Okay thank you, my name is Danny from C4, Danny and Dylan I've been working with the KVP for the last several years My first question is to Dr. Hans it's very interesting to see from your presentation what bamboo can do what bamboo can be converted I'm wondering is this all innovations in bamboo is it initiated by the government of China or is it initiated by the research or by the profit sector and my second question is to Pa Fatoni but Fatoni it's interesting to see the Ministry of Forestry put attention to this more than 500 NTFPs in Indonesia I'm wondering whether what is the instrument regulations that can lead between these NTFPs from the productions into the processes and into the marketing because bamboo, retan is not only informed Ministry of Forestry but also Ministry of Trade and Ministry of Industry instead of instrument regulations to lead Ministry of Forestry and my last question to Pa Fatoni is this morning our President mentioned the planting of trees in the last 5 years between 2011 and 2014 saying that we have planted 4 billion trees in Indonesia I'm wondering what is the position of NTFPs in those programs do you have any strategies to integrate NTFPs with the tree planting because forest plantation is also quite popular recently thank you Jaya Wahono from Claim Power in Indonesia we comfort bamboo in the electricity in Bangladesh hopefully we will be operational in the end of this year so I hope to invite all of you to come my question to Dr. Pachori if I understand correctly Indonesia is the third biggest polluter in terms of carbon emission is that correct so but in terms of the economy size we are number 16 World Bank says we are number 10 based on GDP but what happens if we double our GDP can the world afford to have Indonesia that double the carbon emission so I guess if we fail to stop the carbon emission and have a renewable energy project here in Indonesia that replace diesel and the coal pipeline then I think the world has to contribute so what is the IPCC is doing to help Indonesia in achieving that thank you I'm Carolyn Buckingham World Resources Institute this is for Dr. Fatemi I'm just wondering about the Indonesian NTFP development strategy and what are the major challenges we've seen that implemented for example are there any restrictions on land that can be used or other things so what are the major opportunities you can see from that my name is Desi I'm from forestry research development agency recent development and currently we are having activities in the Bali province that we trying to develop a model on upstream and upstream sector and the downstream sector on Bambuida stream development and I'm agree with Mr. Hans that sometimes in developing country Bambuida is related with the poor so I'm agree that we have to put some added value on that so I want to know since the in-bar headquarters is in China as we know China is very advanced in the Bambuida industry and development so maybe you could share to us what is the main strategy step if we want to develop on Bambuida stream what is the I mean of course the regulation and also the community but the important thing is how to change the mindset that Bambuida is not for the poor anymore so we can use Bambuida stream as the starting thank you very much I think the point that you made is something that really confronts every society in the world and what we really need to do is to look at what growth and development really represents after all the whole purpose of economic growth and development is to enhance the welfare of the people and if the pattern of growth that we're pursuing is going to impose huge negative externalities including climate change which is going to have impacts then we really need to redefine the path of growth and development and may I say that is entirely feasible in other words we can move along the path by which we mitigate the emissions of greenhouse gases and if you ask me for a country like Indonesia of course you do have the problem of deforestation and that somehow has to be reversed and that requires not only action at the level of Indonesia but perhaps globally and I'm not going to prescribe anything for that but obviously that's an outcome which has to be part of the whole mitigation strategy but what is also important to remember is that if you were to bring about shift towards mitigation on a large scale globally are not pilot all as a matter of fact we've estimated that if we want to limit temperature increase to below 2 degree Celsius by the end of this century then all it implies is a reduction in global GDP of 0.06 percent per year and that lets say in 2013 amounts to 1.7 percent of the global GDP in 2013 now if you look at the benefits in terms of the core benefits which mean higher energy security lower levels of pollution at the local level perhaps even higher employment opportunities and the benefits of avoiding or delaying the worst impacts of climate change then it's totally a win-win situation as one would say it's a no-brainer so I think somehow the global community has to understand the enormous benefits of shifting here towards a path of development that is mitigations oriented because the alternative of no action is going to be so very high in terms of cost that I think human society must make this choice that action and of course Indonesia is not alone in that every society across the globe has to do that and I hope we have the sense we have the wisdom and we have the appreciation of knowledge to be able to do. Thank you I think there were a couple of questions about how did China manage to develop its bamboo industry first let me say I'm not Chinese so what I'm saying is my own interpretation I understand this happened the first thing is this didn't happen overnight a lot of the industry developments we see that have gone to a real high level of quality and quality control have taken maybe 20 years to develop so it's not something that will happen overnight but I think what made possible in China was a combination of governance and local governments have effectively allowed bamboo to be used both as a private investment opportunity as a communal resource to promote basically the use of plantations by the government owned or owned by a consortium of people and thirdly to use bamboo as a means to degrade the lands and unproductive agricultural lands and eroded lands so there was a whole governance aspect that's very important then there was an infrastructure aspect what government has done at a local level has put in place in some cases roads so that bamboo can be transported to a market and provide the opportunity for a private sector to then develop it but the actual work and the actual businesses are private businesses and they basically made use of these sort of facilitative actions by the government loan government to develop an industry that initially had some pitfalls and questions and maybe the quality wasn't right up to standard but is now ironed out most of the problems so it's a combination really of governance, private sector and the third area that I didn't mention which is also very important is research there's a whole network of basically research centers that are focused on bamboo and that are looking at still new opportunities there's a whole discussion about the chemical properties and the pharmaceutical properties of bamboo which we don't really know enough about the possibilities of using bamboo for bioethanol, biobutanol these are very likely developments but there's still research going on how to make natural textiles from bamboo not viscose based but actually natural bamboo products so there's still a lot of research going on and I think it's that partnership between the research, the government and the private sector that made it happen just to get back to the other question about using bamboo in reforestation I can't speak for Indonesia, I let Dr. Fatone answer that one but on a global scale it's one of the things that we are promoting and we are talking about how we can actually introduce the concept of using bamboo to basically look at really badly graded soils we have some experience in India for example an old brickyard, not just one brickyard an old harry that was used for brick making where the soil were completely exhausted completely degraded red earth it started with the green bamboo forest as I said there are experiences in China where basically non-productive land was restored using bamboo and is now an active healthy forest with all the economic benefits that come with it and we are working now in Africa Ethiopia, Ghana and Tanzania to do similar sort of work and using bamboo as one means to help with the kind of basically restoring 20% of degraded land scales by that trend so it's possible, I don't know what the experience in Indonesia is I think that's you Thank you very much Mr. Darin for the regulation across the sector yes, NTFPs I think need regulation across the sectors because not only producing but also and then also marketing we have experiences on how is prepared on the Rantan for example many times on of this year can be exported Rantan material and then the next year is export ban and so on and this is I think we need to integrate between the sectors first government ministry of rest, ministry of home affairs and also create and ministry of industry soon to be together and fortunately now we have also the new national bamboo board and also hopefully very soon on the Rantan also so in this board then all whatever strategy regulation can be discussed integrated between all sectors all stakeholders farmers can benefit from the development of Rantan NTFPs also industries as well as the government I think I agree that we need more simple regulation in order NTFPs can be developed faster which position NTFPs on the plantings national planting program some species should be introduced in this program for example for many years ago we planted what we call it super, one is in the English to come and in the next 5 years I think it will be booming for food and then it will become because in the next 5 years I think it will be booming from this planting movement so I think many species already introduced in this program and also recently the government forcing the provincial government to give some of allocation issues special allocated to the cannot be used other than planting of Bantu so this is I think NTFPs already embracing the justice and so on so this is regulation cross sector in order there is development of NTFPs getting faster and benefited to all and opportunity for NTFPs development strategy I think as I mentioned that many problems still be encountered on the development of the anti-hospital for example for the accurate data and information how many of these are existing in the forest so we need inventory so in order to provide the accurate data management can be carried out better and the second also I think so far many anti-hospital still rely on the natural resources still very small cultivation so I think in the future using this movement then cultivation of the anti-hospital will be encouraged also to have the processing technology in order to because if bamboo not new technology then people image bamboo is the traditional but now I think bamboo already used for many high technology and also for example and also others need when you edit using the advanced technology to provide better image of the non-timber forest products we have a good opportunity because in the next 5 years the government already this is our commitment with cross sector we are going to develop more than 600 forest management unit it means that in the local level and the cycle level should be developed many many and their base in order to produce income for the management unit hence this bamboo is very good for Indonesia also for land rehabilitation because they just really grow naturally along the very slope stream and also non-contractive land for example also grow very well bamboo in Indonesia also I think we have opportunity because more than 40 million people it really depend on the forest products I stay around forest area inside and outside near and next to the forest area I then left forest available over there so if we develop the non-timber forest product then we can benefit to our communities and also the last I think because the government so far provide huge access for the people to forest management the minister already provide more than 5 million hectares allocated to the people in form of community forest and also village forest and also and this form of the this can be utilized also to develop and at peace in the future. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for the opportunity. My name is Intan I'm a consultant from Singapore and I think the presentations are very interesting and I'm going to give some opinions and I think like NTFE are very important and I think for example like local local levels like the lesson from local levels like for example from Google customary forest in Jamiah province and also the Lubukurinian village forest I think this mechanism of promoting NTFE is already integrated into this customary forest scheme of village forest and I think the point that I discover is that sometimes it's difficult for the villagers to find like the market for the product and they rely heavily with intermediaries so and no matter like how beautiful this like woven basket that they can make but it's only going to be you know it's it will be unavailable in the market because it's difficult to find the niche market for this product and especially because of limited access to market information and I think it's also very important to kind of encourage the promotion of NTFE and as well the customary community because for example like customary community in Gugu forest in Jamiah they have this traditional knowledge of these giant trees it harvests the Asian giant bees and they have this traditional knowledge that if you actually clean the surrounding of the forest then the bee will not come and I think it's very important as well to give a greater customary community to our NTFE and I think in responding to opinions about village forest I think like right now the people in the who have adopted the village forest schemes they are worried that they will have limited access to the NTFE because some of the village forest they are actually protected forest so the people are entitled to limited access of NTFE product and I think it will definitely make a difference when you have the village forest located like 10 kilometers away from the village and when the forest is only like just adjacent to the forest it will discourage people who even though they were given the rights to access this NTFE but if the forest are located 10 kilometers away they will not simply store more than harvests that thank you thank you my name is Pibril from Bogor Agricultural University I'm a graduate student from SoftwareFrance.F right before that bamboo is high water absorber good in carbon secrification is it possible using bamboo for green public area in big cities which has problem with diminishing water catchment and air pollution issues thank you You know it's a really good question because again I think using bamboo in urban environments has not really been explored to the extent that you might expect, but it does happen for sure. I think in general it's understood and totally accepted now that green cities are healthier. Cities with vegetation basically provide shade, they provide cleaner air, they provide opportunities for recreation, people feel healthier, it's good for your mental capacity. So cities that are green not just as far as emissions are concerned, or as far as car management are concerned, but cities that actually have green spaces are healthy cities. Can you use bamboo? Depends a little bit. Bamboo grows in the tropics. So to assume that you could do this in Europe or in the States or in Southern Australia, I guess it's not likely. To do this in the tropical belt is definitely possible. There's one challenge I think we have to be aware of. Several species of bamboo, for example the ones that I showed you in China, are what we call running bamboo and the root systems grow very fast. That's fantastic if you arrive in the rural area. It's very good if you're talking about erosion control, slope, stabilization, or general restoration of bad lands. If you're in an urban environment, maybe a different story. So which type of bamboo to use would be a question? Because if you have the bamboo and the root systems go under the surface of the basements, or actually affecting the foundation of buildings, you may create problems that you weren't actually expecting. But using bamboo in an urban environment for modern urban planning definitely is possible. We've been given the signal that we need to close very soon, so I just want to close. A lot of the things that I picked up when people were talking, and I see this in India quite often, it seems as if Indonesia is solving it, is that NTFP is not just bamboo and raktan, but the other NTFP falls between the stools of different ministries, so no one actually owns it. I know in India we had a very interesting situation where bamboo was considered one of the forestry ministries, and thanks to a lot of NGOs and academics working, it was removed, mostly because of people having access to it, then biologically classified as a brass wood, which meant rural people could use it, but then the forestry industry cost interest in it. The agriculture ministry was handed in for a while, but they didn't really care, so they didn't know about it, and then because of other NTFPs, small-scale industry promotion boards started actually, but no one actually owns bamboo, raktan, medicinal plants, but there's money, for example, for medicinal plants, people suddenly get interested, but otherwise no one really owns it, and I think that is one of the problems. That's just something I want to say, would you like to make some closing statements? In terms of access of the villages to the market, why bamboo so far has become like this in China? Because the government, the industry, and the scientists work together, and also develop together, not only the villages, but the government provides, the access provides the technology and so on, so that bamboo becomes a good product, and then happy market it. So I think the most important for us, I think, we have to work together between the government provides the regulation, access, and also the businessmen, the industry people, and also the academia scientists to look at the research on this issue. So in this I think we will be able to develop the NTFPs and benefit to the people. All 565 items are NTFPs. It's really regretting the raw material is belong to the ministry of forestry. So the processing will be in the other ministry, and the predict will be in the other ministry's matter. So that is why we have to work together between sectors, and other NTFPs can be developed, not only by one sector, one ministry, but also all together and working together to become this good product, available raw material, and that industry can produce better, and that market access for the market is very important. So this is, I think, this is why in Rata, for example, we also proposed to Dr. Hans, because Indonesia, 80% of the raw material, good raw material from Indonesia, but from the figure, raw material only 3% of the total value, 97% coming from the finished products and funds products. That is why we have to provide a value in it to high technology in order to gain more value from the raw material to get that with raw material. Dr. Bachari, thank you very much for enjoying this. Thank you very much.