 Robert Lee at just in general, major general of the state of Hawaii. Wonderful to have him on the show. Thank you for coming down Bob. Thank you Jay. My pleasure. So let's talk about what you've been doing since you retired a couple years ago. And then let's talk about your perspective. Your perspective is really important. And I would like to add one thought there is that you know, retired seniors have a special perspective, not only about the military, but about the world in general. And we really need to keep in touch with them to examine that perspective. It's very, very helpful to us. So tell us about what you've been doing since you retired. Well, thank you Jay. Well, first off, as soon as I retired, General Shinseki, former Chief of Staff of the United States Army, and at that time, Secretary of Veterans Affairs called me in and says, Bob, you're going to have some time on your hands. You need to do this. And this was to award the Congressional Gold Medal to the Nisei soldiers of the famed 100th Battalion, 442nd Infantry Regiment, and the Military Intelligence Service. And the 442nd being my former unit in the Army, how could I tell him no? Besides, there's this communications dialogue between a 4-star and a 2-star. It kind of goes one way from 1-star to 2-star. So we honored the Japanese-American Nisei soldiers of World War II. And for what they did, their exploits not only in combat in the field, but how they changed society in Hawaii and the United States from internment camps to being part of mainstream America. So that was a very enjoyable experience and unbeknownst to me that there was an effort in about 2017 to kind of award the Congressional Gold Medal to Chinese American World War II veterans. And at first I thought, you know, there were the only minorities that did not serve in segregated units. They must be okay. And not knowing my history, shame on me that like a lot of minorities in America during World War II, they had to fight to join in order to fight. So there was an additional hurdle. The Chinese Exclusion Act targeted a racial group for the first time in America's history. So at the outbreak of World War II, Chinese Americans couldn't vote, couldn't own property. And in fact, 40% of the Chinese Americans in America were not even citizens. But they said, this is our country, and we're going to defend America. So they signed up in World War II. So out of the eligible population, 20,000 served in World War II, roughly one in five at about a 20% mark. Now a lot of Americans served in World War II, and we really needed all 16 million Americans at that time to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. But that 16 million comprised roughly 7% of America's population. So the Chinese served at the three times the ratio. And they could serve in any unit they chose. Most of them joined the United States Army. And at that time, part of the Army, the United States Army Air Forces, Army Air Corps. Then you found Chinese Americans in the Marines, the Navy, the Coast Guard, and the Merchant Marine. So they got to serve everywhere, fought on land, sea, and air, and served in every theater of operations. Quite a feat that it was a story that we had to tell. Yeah, there's a lot of stories from World War II that we really haven't yet examined and we haven't told. We're still learning about World War II. And that is one of those stories, the Chinese Americans in the military at that time. It's an important story. Last week, we had a show on Westlock and the second Pearl Harbor, they called it, 1944. That was also a story. I don't think a lot of people know about that. Right. But I think what I found in common with the Nisei getting their Congressional Gold Medal and the Chinese Americans receiving their Congressional Gold Medal, because that generation never tutored their horn. They felt they just did their duty. And people have asked me, why did it take so long to recognize this generation? Well, that's because if we had done this 25, 30 years earlier, the living veterans would have told us, knock it off. We don't need this. It wasn't until the majority of the the veterans have passed and the family members says, yeah, I think my dad or my grandpa would like this recognition from the Congress of the United States, one of the highest award that can be stole by America on a group of Americans for what they did. So glad that happened. So glad you organized it. But you know, it's interesting, you don't hear that much about the Chinese senior officers. I mean, American Chinese senior officers. And right. And now there's a certain amount of, you know, press coverage of Susie Lum as the new president of the East West Center. What is that? What does that mean? What does it signify for you, Bob? Wow, great. The Susie Barris Lum, when I knew her as a rising star in the Hawaii Army National Guard, when I first met her was Lieutenant Colonel Susie Barris Lum. And unfortunately, one of my first duties was to send her to Iraq with the rest of the 29th Brigade. And she and the rest of the soldiers of the 29th did very well in the 2004 deployment. And I kept watch on Susie, gave her a lot of assignments and each one, she did well. But I think she really flourished when we assigned her to PECOM and then now Indo PECOM, where mixed with all the other services, she really shown her talents. And I'm glad the board of the East West Center recognized that talent. Excellent choice and selecting her as the president of the East West Center. That's great. That's great for the East West Center. It's great for Hawaii. It's great for Chinese senior officers and I really appreciate that. So let's talk about what you've been doing in terms of consulting, because I think, as I said before, the perspective of a senior officer is unique. You learn things, you see things, you examine the world with a perspective that's special. And that is something that we should recognize and give you opportunities to express. So my question is, what are you doing in terms of consulting now as a retired agent and general major? Well, Jay, I'd like to kind of maybe go backwards in time a little bit, where a lot of members of your audience are, you know, they're aware of what the National Guard does in our state and in every state that, you know, you have a problem, you call out the guard, whether it's a domestic disaster or a quick one brewing. But anyone that, when you need immediate action, you need to do that. But I wanted to cover another aspect of the guard that's a bit unknown and not widely known to the public, is that the guard marries up with countries across the world and work hand in hand to to improve their military operations and even the civilian operations. And we call that, in the National Guard, the state partnership program. And in Hawaii, for many years, we partnered with the Philippines. And during my tenure, what a big surprise when Admiral Keating called me up and says, Indonesia has selected Hawaii as a state partners. Oh, my goodness. You know, we were about 1.2 million then. And the largest democratic Muslim country in the world, about 250 million, we might get overwhelmed. No, it's okay. So we started really not with military engagements, but more with emergency management. They had just gone through a horrific earthquake and tsunami. You know, Americans can't fathom in a natural disaster losing 250,000 citizens. And so with the Hawaii Tsunami Warning Center installed multiple tsunami warning devices throughout the archipelago of Indonesia to provide them a future advanced warning of earthquakes and tsunamis. Because what happened back in, you know, 2004, I believe, it's going to happen again. And then we ramped up the number, thanks to Senator Noy then, installation of many tsunami warning boys throughout the Pacific, throughout the rim of fire. So that engagement was really firsthand. And I remember Dr. Chip McQuarrie, who headed the Pacific Tsunami Center, and Governor Lingo at that time, went to sign the state partnership agreement with the Minister of Defense Surai Sohno. And she was amazed to find Dr. Chip McQuarrie even more popular than the governor of Hawaii. He was the rock star. He was installing all these tsunami early warning systems throughout the Indonesian archipelago. But then we quickly engaged into the military side of things on how to improve Indonesia's military capability. And so we prepped the Indonesian Armed Forces for United Nations peacekeeping operations. And to this day, Indonesia has only one peacekeeping mission. Their forces, two battalions worth, are between Lebanon and Israel in the border area. And I tell friends, it says, you know, it's so much easier to have a, or better to have a competent Muslim force that you can count on keeping the peace being neutral than to try to have Americans or, you know, a NATO unit trying to enforce the peace between Lebanon and Israel. So that's really a good example that I would like to segue and give kudos to my friends, the former adjutant generals for the state of California. Because California led the training of the Ukrainian territorial reserve forces. And my friends tell me that in 2014 when Russia invaded and took Crimea and parts of the Donbas area by force, Ukraine was caught flatfooted. I mean, the military wasn't prepared. But they said, Putin's going to come back for more. We just don't know when. So let's get serious about defending our country. And of course, NATO laugh and the United States laugh. Oh, no, I mean, that's not that's not going to happen. But the Ukrainian military took it upon themselves to improve their operations that a lot of exercises with NATO and the California National Guard started to ramp up the Ukrainian territorial defense forces that served in, in their area of assignment. They weren't going to jump all over Ukraine. But, you know, they knew the territory for their towns. They knew how to set up ambushes for the Russians. And they knew how to shoot javelins and anti-tank missiles. This is a reserve force. So I, I bet the yes men of the generals that told President Putin, you know, what he wanted to hear that they taught invading Ukraine in 2022, they would run into the same military Ukrainian military force. But now you have another hundred thousand plus very well trained reserve forces and glad to see that they're taking it to to the Russians. So it's this National Guard partnership that we have with probably over 50 countries throughout the world right now that in addition to the disaster response, we're we're certainly building the capability of many democratic countries so that they get more bang for the buck from their own armed forces. Yeah, it really is very important. And you're right. We don't know about it. And it's fascinating to hear you describe it. I mean, a lot of our shows are fascinating, but wow, this is really fascinating. So what is the difference between the contribution made overseas, you know, in these various countries and hotspots between, you know, the regular army, regular United States military and the National Guard? Well, how do they come at it from different ways? Okay, I think I'd like to give an example. When I Governor Lingo and I first went to Jakarta to sign up on the the the state partnership between the state of Hawaii and the country of Indonesia. And I remember saying this to Defense Minister Sudarsono, because the chairman of the Joint Chief General Peter Pace was visiting Indonesia in Jakarta. And they were riding in the streets. And I told the Defense Minister Sudarsono, you know, I don't think this is such a good idea. Maybe this is a little too early that your country may not be ready for Americans. He said, no, that's that's not true. We need to sign this and do this now. You know, Hawaii, you guys are different. Everybody loves Hawaii. And so the National Guard comes in really at a non-threatening level. They know we do a lot of emergency response. And that's normally the inroads in there, how how they would, we would work with them to improve their emergency response system. And for example, we change, I mean, not we per se, by working with the Indonesian government on all their natural disasters. Everybody looked to Jakarta, the capital, what are we going to do? And they said, we got to change this, we're the we're the bottleneck. So they started to make the provinces and the provincial governors responsible to take to be the first responders and to take care of the disasters within their provinces. Well, wasn't that a spotlight, you know, and we we wanted them to come through their this conclusion instead of sort of telling them what to do. So they finally realized that being decentralized, yes, Jakarta will help you, just like Washington, DC, when you get a little overwhelmed and you need FEMA money and other assistance will come and help. But the governor in the mirror, you're your first up, you need to take care of the emergency. And the guard will be there to help you be successful. This reminds me of comments that Barack Obama made to explain, you know, his worldview that it was different because he was from Hawaii and Hawaii is a different worldview. And that's what I get from your discussion. Hawaii is a different worldview. It's a different perspective. And then, you know, in terms of your experience, the National Guard experience, we see things we in Hawaii have a special advantage socially and and, you know, geopolitically and politically in the United States. The regular US military deals with the chain of command out of Washington. The National Guard deals with the chain of command out of Washington, but also the state. So you can put those two perspectives together. Tell me, tell me if I'm right. You are absolutely correct, Jay. And I think I wanted to just give another example, because I think we're seeing in Europe how well NATO has come together finally growing and being a unified perspective. But why not Asia? That how come there's no such thing as a NATO? And from my experience, the countries, you know, they kind of don't trust their neighbors, but they'll gladly make a deal one on one with the United States. So you have all these individual countries making a bilateral deal within the United States. But when we had Homeland Security meetings, because I'll tell you, a top of mind when I first got appointed was really terrorism. And the last thing I wanted was a bomb going off in Alamo on a shopping center and knocking off all the tourism. So I was watching the Islamic radical groups taking hold in Indonesia and the Philippines and how it was slowly moving, moving from West West to East. And that was my concern. And one of the reasons for holding the Homeland Security conferences was to invite Malaysia, Brunei, and all these Asian countries were put in a room. You know, they're no longer, they're kind of a neutral turf. So they were exchanging prisoners pictures of the Islamic terrorists, how they moved from Jakarta to Malaysia to Thailand. And they're all exchanging information and having a good dossier on how they behave and sharing that type of information at that time. So we talked about rotating this security conference throughout the Pacific just to give other nations a chance. And I was summarily voted down. I said, no, we're going to come to Hawaii all the time because we can get access to Indo Pecom and all the services. And you and Hawaii has a good atmosphere for sharing some information that we would not share with our neighbor directly in in the theater. So I thought that was a bit interesting. Yeah, well, I mean, it's the whole notion that Den and Norway set up at APCSS, isn't it? Making us a kind of hub for security around the Pacific. Well, I'd like to have a hypothetical with you, Bob. I'd like to give you, here on a given Tuesday afternoon, I'd like to give you $40 billion. I really like you a lot. And I'd like to give you $40 billion. Well, you're nice. You're nice. And I'd like to tell you, why don't you spend about half of that on humanitarian and half of that on military in Ukraine? So the question is, you know, how does that change the narrative right now? How does that change the way things are working? And how would you spend my special gift to you, Bob? Okay, first of all, I think things are going well in Ukraine with the new systems coming in. Russia cannot technically rebuild their tanks and their cruise missiles. By the way, I hope the public realizes that, yeah, Ukraine is taking some hits from the Russian cruise missiles, but really over 50% of them don't reach the target. And if they do, they, you know, they don't cause a hit. So what I'd like to do is take your generous money. And I would like to give to Taiwan two things. Okay, first thing I would do is with Taiwan Semiconductor, business to business, fund them so that Starlink is over Taiwan. All right, not only over the island of Taiwan, but I would like Starlink to expand out to 100 nautical miles to reach the Chinese coast. All right. Then the other part of your money, I would like to purchase the iron dome system for Taipei and other key installations. I think those two areas and not necessarily US military solutions, but that will make Xi Jinping think twice about trying to forcibly take Taiwan. Well, I mean, you suggest that the United States has not spent the money before, not as much. We have great military. We spend funny money in the military, but we have to spend the money on being a presence. Not only in Europe, perhaps more than we have been, but in Asia, perhaps more than we have been, you know, by expanding the quad, you know, and firming up the quad. And we have to be a presence. Now, there are those people in the country who don't feel we should do that, who feel we should be more nationalistic and isolationistic. But in protecting the liberal world order, seems to me one of the lessons here of the past few years is that we really have to be the world's policemen and we have to hold, we have to be the city on the hill, the beacon on the hill, and we have to maintain our moral liberal order in order to preserve the world liberal order. What do you think? I think one more thing is like it or not, America has to be the leader, because the world will will follow us because we're doing this for an ideal that will make them okay, you know, further their freedom and democracy. We're not looking to take it away from them. So every time I hear that America wants to lead from behind and not to not to step up, it really bothers me because we're we're we have been afforded the driver's seat based on our actions of all the previous years, our sacrifices, and and that's how we can we can help the world. So we need to step up in that matter. It kind of takes us back to the early part of the discussion here today about the the medals, about the congressional medals for the, you know, Japanese soldiers in World War II, and that matter the Chinese soldiers in World War II and the contributions, you know, it's like when you look forward, you have to remember the sacrifices that people made in American history, and we can't throw those away. They define us and they obligate us to continue to continue what we were doing. These people gave their lives, many of them, for a reason. I mean, is that your thinking? Yes, and I'd like to bring up one point with this national award for the Nisei soldiers and for the World War II Chinese American veterans, but bring it closer to home because I reviewed thousands of records, pictures, and discharge records to make sure that these veterans and their surviving families were due the congressional gold medal. And, you know, the Chinese Americans, that's how it was back then. A lot of them were cooks in the in the military or ran laundries, but it was different from Hawaii. So what stood out was the top army soldier, Captain Francis Y. Kunahou grad, Honolulu, Hawaii, gave his life in the liberation of the Philippines when MacArthur landed again at Leyte Gulf and he received the congressional medal of honor for his heroic actions. And then you have Admiral Gordon Chanhun, USS Sixby Battle of Okinawa hit by Kamikaze Commander Chanhun at that time, and he survived, saved the ship, and went on to become a rear admiral in the United States Navy, also from Hawaii. And then finally in the Army Air Force, we have Captain George Lee, a distant cousin, I believe. Recently, recently found out that he was a fighter pilot in the Flying Tigers in China, shot down three Japanese planes. Now, the Mitsubishi Zero was a superior fighter than our old P-40 Warhawk. So he must have been one hell of a fighter pilot to shoot down three Japanese, and also from Honolulu, Hawaii. So you have the top army guy, top Navy guy, and Army Air Force, Army Air Corps guy. It must be in the water we have here, I guess. I always say that. It must be the water. And so looking, looking at what we've talked about here today, Bob, you know, the legacy, the tradition of the National Guard, of our Asian, you know, soldiers over, over a long, long period of time in multiple wars, actually. What's your advice to people in Hawaii about how they should see the military, how they should see the National Guard, how they should see service, how they should see the role of the state and the National Guard in the state, vis-à-vis, you know, events in the world today? Well, first of all, I think the people of Hawaii, we enjoy tremendous support from the community for the members serving in the military, and especially in the National Guard. So we appreciate all that support. But, you know, we have to work on this for every generation. They, especially if there's not a shooting war or anything like that, it's, hmm, what do we need you for? Why do we need to spend, spend all this money? But it's all about preparedness, because if you prepare for war, you're really able to handle the, you know, other, other emergencies in an organized and well manner. And I just like to say, like during COVID, when the National Guard was called to step in, I, for one, saw some state agencies very dysfunctional, and they couldn't, they couldn't handle day-to-day functions to support the people of Hawaii. And so the National Guard came in, helped organize it, got contact tracing, vaccination, whatever. And on the mainland, nope, you're short of teachers. Well, we'll go do that too, and guarding borders. Thank goodness that we have a big, big ocean. But that's just to, as you know, for Army guy using a naval term, just to write the ship, so that then the organizations can now then take over and, and to serve the public. So for the young people, you don't consider joining the National Guard. And I, I tell them, if you have a six-year enlistment, we have so many good benefits. If, if you don't get a college degree at the end of your six-year enlistment, shame on you. Thank you so much, Bob. Robert Lee is, actually, in general, the state of Hawaii, major general of the state of Hawaii, with long, long career service. And, and I, I say this to a lot of people, but I want to say it especially to you. Bob, thank you for your service to the state and to the nation. My pleasure being on your show. Take care. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at ThinkTechHawaii.com. Mahalo.