 Okay, you ready? Yeah. Okay, it's five o'clock. I want to welcome everybody to the meeting of the Amherst design review board. My name is Catherine Porter and chair of the Amherst design review board. I call this meeting to order. We will begin with a roll call of the members of the design review board who have been in panel for the consideration of the items on tonight's agenda. And I would like to ask the members, would you please say aye or yes to acknowledge your attendance for the record? Lindsey Schnarr. Yes. Janet Mark Ward. Erica Z. Yes. And Tom Long. Yes. Okay. And we also have Marine Pollock planner and staff liaison to the design review board. The design review board and as accompanying zoning regulations in October of 1983, the charge and purpose of the design review board under section 3.2 of the zoning bylaw is to preserve and enhance the town's cultural, economic and historical resources by providing for a detailed review of all changes in land use, the appearance of structures and the appearance of sites which may affect these resources. The design review board exercises this responsibility by providing design review and recommendations to private applicants and permit granting boards within specific overlay zoning districts in the town center, the design review overlay district and the town common design review overlay district. Design review was also provided for town departments and permit granting boards with respect to town projects anywhere and anywhere in the town center. The design review boards are open to the public and are recorded by town staff. Each meeting recording will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel for public viewing. The procedure is as follows. The petitioner presents the application to the board during the meeting, after which the board will ask questions for clarification or additional information. After the board has completed its question, the board will deliberate. If the board feels it has enough information and time, it will decide upon recommendations for each respective application. Once the board has voted on this recommendation, the staff liaison will type up the recommendations for distribution to the applicant. Board applicable land use, board and building commissioner. Tonight's agenda is DRB FY 2021-23, town of Amherst to review the proposed building wall sign and metal frame under section 3.2 of the zoning bylaw located at the boltwood plaza. 51 bolt, 51 boltwood wall sign. Okay. I think that's probably sufficient. Is it Marine? And we have somebody here to. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. We have bill. How would you say your last name? Sorry, Bill. From the public art committee that will be presenting it. Regarding the sign and metal frame on the boltwood walk plaza. Do you want me to pull up the presentation bill? Yeah. So can you guys hear me? Yes. Sure. Okay. Great. So I am actually a. Zooming in from vacation. I'm coming to you from the beautiful New Jersey shore. I'm in Brigantine, New Jersey. If any of you know that. So there is a chance that I may be interrupted here. I may lose my connection, but I'll do my best. Okay. So yeah, I'm the chair of the public art commission. I've been on the commission for quite a number of years now. Well, three, four, somewhere, something like that. I've been chair for about a year and a half before that, I was a treasurer. One of the things that. When I joined the commission, I learned that we were sort of put in charge of was a project that we didn't initiate and had no input in when it was developed, which was the, the, the poem windows by Ratsuko Tahoe, which went in when the boltwood garage was, was rebuilt. So this piece, as many of you know, was installed and, and, and was up and running. Excuse me in 2011, but only actually worked for a few months before it died. And unfortunately, when this piece was commissioned, there was no money set aside for keeping it running in an ongoing fashion. So basically what happened was that we had to, you know, a site specific artwork commissioned that never really existed, despite the fact that her name was engraved in the stone around the windows, which apparently was done slightly under the radar of the people who did commission the piece. I spoke to a few of the people who were involved in it. And they said that they were taken by surprise by some of the things that happened with this. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, they were taken by surprise by some of the things that happened with this. It was returned to working order briefly 10 years later for another six months or so. But in the last 20 years, this project has actually been operational for almost none of that time. And so it was one of the things that as a public art commission member always bothered me and the rest of the members of the commission, which is what to do with this rather embarrassing dead work of art that has been sitting there a fallow for so many years. So going back and forth over a lot of time, we decided the best course of action was to repurpose the site and, and make it into an outdoor gallery for rotating works where we could invite artists to show work in the space in an ongoing basis where the town wouldn't have to have any permanent financial commitment to keeping the works up and running. The artists would install the work that would be responsible for keeping them running for the period of the exhibition. Six months or so. And then they would take the work away and we could commission another piece. And so we approved and voted and passed this with the support of the town manager. And peripherally the town council about a year ago. And have been working behind the scenes to get this up and running. We were able to secure a grant for $2,000 from the state through the cultural district to actually run a pilot of this. And we held a call for applicants and shows local artist Benjamin Cowden to be the first artist to show here. We're also piggybacking a little bit on a DOT grant that's going to pay for this signage. And so Benjamin Cowden is actually already installed the work in the space as a kind of test run. It's there now. You can go see it. The formal opening is slated for September 10th. So we need to get this signage up and running by then. So there's a little bit of urgency here. I think things got delayed a little bit because of summer schedules and people being in and out of town. So I appreciate your coming together to talk about this today. So if we can go to the next slide, please. So this is the head house in Bultwood Plaza that was built above the parking garage. You can go back a slide actually. So yeah, it's so the parking garage is beneath. I mean, I assume that most of you are familiar with the space. There is a small room in the space, which we can talk about in a minute, but that's, you know, that's where it is involved. Okay. So go to the next one. There's a bunch of bullet points that kind of touch on this. I assume that you guys have had a chance to look at the PowerPoint beforehand. Let me just call out anything I see on here that's really important right now. Happy to answer questions after I run through this quickly. I think you covered on this in your, in your intro. Yeah. Okay. And so there is currently a metal. Okay. So that's, so there's a couple of things you can see in this image. If you look closely, yep, right where that is. That's the existing metal sign describing the original project. Actually just to the left of that is the door that gives you access to the space. Right now, all that space has been used is for the storage of landscaping equipment. So there's like lawn mowers and weed whackers and stuff in there. And we've able, you know, so the windows themselves are fairly self-contained unit. So that stuff can actually, for the most part, stay there at least for this version of the project. And it hasn't been a problem. And we have facilities on board and they've been working with us hand in hand through all this. The, the location of the metal frame, which we'll see better in the next image, right, will go around the existing windows primarily because her name, the name of the artists is engraved in the stones there. And it would be the, it's the cheapest solution is to put a metal frame in that would match the existing metal of the, of the surrounding building painted that same greenish gray shade. This was the recommendation by facilities rather than try to take out those bricks and replace them with plain bricks. And then we want to put a new sign on that post to the right, which will strap around the back of the sign with bolts on the front and a metal band. So that actually, they can be removed very easily. It's the kind of temporary or metal signings that you see actually all around already in, in bought wood plaza. In fact, if you look at that lamp to the right, you can see, yeah, that's the kind of sign. Although slightly smaller than that, that we envision for this next line. So that's where the metal frame would go. Covering up where it says poem windows. And it wouldn't, it would, it would actually match the existing structure itself. So the green post. Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, there was some talk, there was some rust on those posts of, of, of repainting those. I don't know if they'll get to that or not actually, but it's part of the DOT grant there. Not only are they putting that ramp connecting the banks, the bank center to boltwood, but they're doing a bunch of work on the plaza. They're bringing in some new furniture. And so we're actually hoping by the time the opening happens, all this will have come together in a nice way. Next slide. So that is the sign that we're proposing. So the top part, it would actually be sort of two signs butted together. The top part could potentially stay longer, assuming that we're able to get funding to go beyond the pilot and have this as an ongoing program that's uncertain. That's the title of the, of the space as, as we voted on and the portal gallery and what would Plaza. And then the bottom part of the sign would be the description of the individual project. And then the other part of the sign would be the portal gallery sign. And then the portal gallery sign would be the one that would be swapped out as new projects get installed. But if for some reason the pilot doesn't extend either. Immediately after into, into a suite of permanent projects, or there's a hiatus or maybe it just dies, which would be too bad. That portal gallery sign itself can also be very easily. Taken off with no permanent changes to the structure. Yeah, so that's the quick. Thanks, Bill. Presentation and I'm happy to answer any questions you guys might have. So is this more an installation or a sculpture? It's not a painting on a wall, right? So this current project is a series of five dioramas that are interactive. And that as people approach them and make sounds or make gestures, they actually move and change in response to the viewer. Okay. And is it open 24 hours a day? No, so it'll run, it has a timer. So it's not going to be up. It has light. It doesn't have any sound, but it has a light component. It looks quite striking at night, but we didn't want it to run all night because we didn't want it to bother neighbors and also because it would be bad for the motors. So it shuts down right now at, I think it's scheduled to shut down at. One AM, but actually we can set that time to whatever, whatever we want and whatever seems most appropriate. I believe that Jan has raised your hand. Yeah. What was the contract with the original artist? Have you looked at it? I mean, the fact that the name was etched into the stone makes me think it might have had some permanence expected. Yeah, there was permanence expected, but the piece never existed permanently. So yeah, of course, we've looked at the contract. We've consulted with the town and the town's lawyers and we spent a lot of time, quite a lot of time dealing with that end of it. So what do you mean it never, it never existed permanently. What do you mean by that? The piece never worked. So after it was installed, it broke because of the cold and no solution was come up with to make it work. And the artist didn't come back to do anything about that. Nope. Okay. Sadly. Anybody else? Erica. Tom. I have a question. The town has a new signage and wayfinding system. And did you give any consideration to using the. The fonts, you know, this is a town commissioned, you know, the fonts, the colors for your signage that would associate it with town of Amherst. Yeah. Yeah. Signage. No. Would you be willing to. We could look into it. You know, we've spent a lot of time over the years and many committees trying to get everything coordinated to that new wayfinding system. So it might be nice to try and match. If not. The colors, at least the fonts. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if we're going to make the opening pretty quickly if we're going to make the opening and I don't have so you've got, you know, I would have to get access to those fonts. Sure. I could. Ben or myself could email you the fonts. Tomorrow morning. But also like the. The kind of models. Of how they look this type of site. Is there a designer who does this for the town? Yes. So yeah, that wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With us now, we're the ones that would tell you, you're just cutting it rather close time wise. We should have seen this a while back if you're trying to get to an opening, you know, just to clarify. So the Seth Gregory was hired to assist with the design and layout of the wayfinding system. He's not a contracted out to look at all. For post signs in the town. I think it would be, I think it would be nice. I mean, just given that the town is working so hard to have a consistent. Signage and wayfinding strategy. Especially from a design perspective that, you know, because this is a. A town sponsored. Gallery. It would be nice to see some of that. And I understand your timeline, but you know, maybe it could, it could come together. Or perhaps there's some. You know, some hybridization that could happen if you don't change portal gallery, but then the information below could come into line or something like that. It would be worth looking at. And I think that the, the, the metal frame will do a nice job also of. Calling attention to this location. Like it makes it those five small windows feel like one larger piece. And I was wondering if you gave any thought to like painting the bricks inside. The frame, you know, to encourage this to be even more. More sought out from a distance perhaps. Painting the bricks. No, that was never, that was never discussed. I was working with Jeremiah. Jeremiah. What's Jeremiah's last name, Marie? The plan. He's our facilities manager. Yeah. I'm sure facilities would, would not appreciate having to maintain that. Right. So he's, this is his. This is his plan for the best optimal way to deal with the situation. See anybody else? Erica or Tom. Yeah. Hey, Bill, thanks for, for sharing. I had a question about the expectation for the art in the future. And so I know this is a pilot, right? So. This particular frame. Serves a five framed. LED based project really well. But as a rotating gallery is the expectation that. These five concrete windows remain. Transparent or visible. And then there's some kind of activity happening within those or. Would this ever be solid? I'm just trying to imagine the way in which you as, as the board are looking at this particular place in terms of the versatility of kinds of art that it gets shown there. And whether or not it will require lighting in the future. If these are not internally or self eliminated pieces. Yeah. Good question. So there's a whole room back there, which has power, has internet access. And from our point of view, you know, depending upon the funding, the sky is the limit. So we could imagine each window having an individual diorama, like instant installation, like the current, the current one. We could imagine somebody doing things where people are looking back into the room and the whole room could potentially be a space. We could imagine video being projected, you know, into, you know, back in the room. One of the applicants was actually. You know, who was the one who did present still a hand painted art, which would require thinking about lighting. But lighting. You know, would be part of each project. And that's, you know, you know, would be. You know, in discussion with the artist and the commission and, you know, would be sort of individually based, but there's plenty of power and plenty of ideas that we have and options for lighting. As far as the, the frame goes, I think the intention is really to, you know, to make the space more neutral. I mean, so in the one, on the one hand it, it'll sort of call attention to this as a, as a site for art. I mean, in some sense literally framing this, these projects on the other, you know, it will. You know, get rid of this dead, this sort of dead project and sort of make this, you know, more neutral so that it can be used for a variety of things, potentially. And so just to clarify the expectation is that anyone working on this project. Should they be commissioned to do so or when the opportunity to do so would maintain these stone apertures and the brick around them. Okay. I think that's a good idea as is for all installations. Oh, I see. Yeah, that's, that's the bill. That's actually the building itself. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Right. That's built into the building. Yeah. Part of your. Thank you. Let's see. So Lindsay. Hi. Oh, thank you. So I think my biggest question is around the frame. I mean, I think it's, I mean, I think it's, if you've looked at integrating the two in some way, I mean, as, as part of the discussion that. That was discussed for discussion. It was brought up about. Integrating with the town way of finding it. I also think that, you know, there might be a way to use this frame. As a signage opportunity. You know, that. The sign that you're proposing is, is kind of tucked away. I mean, I think it's not necessarily representative because you're looking straight on, but. I imagine that there might be more visibility to what you're trying to bring people to. If there's. Not only this kind of like metal frame that sits inside. Of the structure, but. The information that's provided is somehow kind of connected to that frame. So, yeah, so we had discussed using the frame as the site for the signage, but. Rejected that for a couple of reasons. One was cost. And another was that actually, although you, this is a, the image on the left. It's not really representative in the space actually. In fact, there's a tree blocking the view to that post on the right, but that post on the right sits outright. It's much more visible in a way than the frame itself is. And so putting the sign there is the most visible place you could actually put it relative to the, to the site. A and B by using the strapping system for the sign, it makes it very easy to remove it if we needed to remove it without any. Big structural change without any structural changes to the building whatsoever. Whereas if you have some kind of permanent signage, you're just read potentially duplicating the same problem that exists now with having her name in the bricks. You know, if we made a permanent sign that said portal gallery and then portal gallery loses funding, you're back in the same place again. So. Are you saying that the frame is, is more permanent than the sign? The frame is permanent. The frame will be permanent. It'll be a fixed to the, I mean, it'll be permanent in the sense that it'll be drilled into the building. You know, so that will stay there. It can always be removed, but it will be more permanent than the sign. Yeah. The intention is, so let's say the portal gallery goes away, at least then. You know, the site is just, it's just a, it's just a neutral site. It doesn't refer to a artwork that never existed or a gallery that doesn't currently exist. Right. Yeah, I don't know. I just, I can imagine like a sign that exists even sitting kind of above the frame and some kind of way that. However it attaches. It just feels like it could be in the same. In a, in a stronger relationship to the frame and to the windows then as kind of the separate side. Piece that. May not be as obvious and may not draw as much attention as strongly. So, you know, I think just from a design standpoint, I would lean toward a sign that. That's has more of a real relationship to the frame, to the windows that kind of sits above it. And kind of holds, holds more of that space in that, in that area that you're creating between the frame and the, the rest of the kind of structure of that area. So, you know, I know you're, you know, time is of the essence for you. But if you are looking at new signage options with the town's wayfinding in mind, it might be something to also consider. Something that sits more. In relationship with that frame. That's all. I don't know how other people feel about it, but that's just, it's my take. I believe Tom. His raises him. Yeah, I know Lindsay, I'm tending to agree with you. And I think one of the contradictions that I think I'm seeing a bill, and this is just something to keep in mind is that, and this might be, you know, part of the sphere of influence of the town wanting to keep things consistent, but the green frame is actually going to just blend in with the green structure around it and just look like an architectural element. And I have a feeling it's not really going to call the kind of attention to that piece of art that you want. Anything in relationship to what Lindsay is saying. If the frame and the sign were then hence the same color, they would have this, they would be part of a different family than the architecture that's there calling attention to the relationship between them. So a, for instance, right now your sign is white. The city that the town specs have like a cream color. Maybe your sign goes to cream and maybe the frame is cream. Maybe it to offset it from the architecture that's there. So that it looks like a, that it becomes a piece that's different from the metal frame of the building. So I'd be thinking about the correlation of those two elements, you know, as a signage and a frame being different. From the architecture intentionally, but, and maybe more slightly in line with the aesthetics of the signage system again, which is a maroon and a cream and a, and a really dark brown, red color, all of which I think have worked really well on this, in this particular location. And I think all of which would offset against the brick and, and the green structure that's there. So I'd be taking a look at figuring out how that frame and, and signage could be different from the architecture to make it really pop as an element in the landscape. That's a nice idea. I was going to say that's a good idea. It's a good idea because it's a, a simpler solution than some of the other things. I think, you know, that might have been kicking around in my head, but the color match would bring those together. I think that's nice. I really liked that idea. But do you guys provide support for this? I mean, so, so this is my first time coming through design review. And, you know, we have no budget. I'm a volunteer. You know, I have some design skills, but I'm not a professional designer. So, you know, Maureen, you sort of said, well, maybe, so how does this, how does this stuff happen? Well, I am, I'm happy to work with you outside of the meeting to find out what the colors are specifically in the way finding system in the font types. And, you know, unfortunately, I only have PowerPoint and Microsoft. I don't have Photoshop or InDesign, but I mean, I mean, I'm happy to play around with, with the colors fonts and your proposed sign. Like I would need, we would need this. Well, I guess it, yeah. So we could play around with that, the weight, the weights of this lettering. If you wanted to continue with this square pattern here. Well, that's, that's the logo that the commission voted on and approved as our, as our logo for the game. So that would be easy to do in Microsoft. So, so I'm happy to work with you, but if, if any members have a passion for signage and would like to help. You know, we, you know, there's no budget for a higher professional designer to do this, to do this work. So I'm just wondering from the point of view of the committee, design review committee. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know if they see the public art commission proceeding. Well, we just, we're going to make a recommendation to whatever board. Or entity is making decisions on this. All we can do is recommend we don't have a budget. So we can't. We can't make any decisions. We can, we'll send our recommendation on. What does that mean that what does the recommendation mean? Well, we don't. We don't make policy. We only can, we can recommend, we can send our recommendation. And I don't know, Marine, who exactly will be the next. Yeah. Good question. Catherine. So the memo. If they're ready, they'll make a motion to, you know, vote on, I would, on, on, you know, on providing recommendations and suggestions, which would, I think in this case would go to the building commissioner and the facilities manager. So let's say we don't resolve this issue, but we have our opening scheduled for, you know, when we do, which is September 10th. Yeah. Yeah. Right. The work is already installed. The artist has been paid. What. Do we just take a piece of cardboard and hold it up or something? You know, I mean, I'm not sure. I just, I just trying to understand how the process. Yeah. Well, Sorry. I didn't try. No, no, you go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, I mean, I'm happy to work. You know, staff is happy to. Work with you, you know, tomorrow, this week, whatever, or next week, whatever works with you. And, you know, I can certainly email. The revised. Design and layout to the board. And, you know, we have been sort of flexible in the past of each member has emailed me individually, their thoughts, or as you can see, we can hold meetings sort of. You know, we try to have a meeting once a month, but perhaps the board would be agreeable to hold a quick meeting, you know, next week or in two weeks, whenever this revised plan is, is ready for them to review. So I think the board is very flexible to, you know, see this, you know, that it works for you in your timeline, but, you know. Yeah, we're not intending to try to get in your way. We're just offering to some, some thoughts here. And I need a bit of clarification because we're talking about the way faring signs. And I don't know if some of the. Design board is proposing that we use a way, the way faring sign with the colors. That are proposed for the ones that are going to be put around town or should we, are we, are we advocating for something cleaner and a bit more simple? I don't, when you start talking about the way faring sign, understand the font might be adjusted, but are you also suggesting that we use a similar background? Is that what I'm hearing? Or basically I wouldn't, that wouldn't be my favorite, but that's fine. I raised it for an issue of consistency and kind of town voice, a visual voice. And I think that that could be done in a number of ways. It wouldn't have to be fully in compliance. You know, I don't think that the town way, finding signs have precedent for, you know, the text information here about the artwork. And so, you know, to use the, the font and the color would make some sense. And then I think there's a fair amount of freedom in terms of, like how the rest of it is undertaken. Although I would throw in one more thing about the sign, and that is regardless wherever it's placed, that we should make sure that it's accessible to somebody, you know, mounted at a height that's readable with somebody who is say a wheelchair user, right? So to reference ADA compliance guidelines. I think Janice, raise your hand. Okay. Yeah, a couple of things. I like the suggestion that Tom made that we use some of the colors. Not, we don't necessarily, as Erica said, we don't have to follow the exact layout, but to use some of these same colors, because there are a lot of different kinds of signs and colors all over. And those ones that are up on posts like that with the band behind, they're just everywhere for parking and directional. And so having anything that conforms would help. And also I like the idea of the band or the frame color changing to both, as he said, make it more noticeable, but also to conform or with the color. And then have the sign match. If you want them to be ADA heights, they have to be the height that we put the writer's walk signs in, which is quite low. And maybe not use the planter side, use the other post on the left then so that a person can get to it. The only thing is then if they're too wide, you risk running into it. You know, we're backing into it when you're standing there. So you can't use the post to the left because it blocks the doorway. Okay, well, the one on the right, it'll be down in the bushes in that tree there. Can we go back to that image? Yep. Yeah, so there. Yeah, so I know, yeah, we have to. I'm not sure what the height is, but yeah, the pole, the post doesn't go. It goes into that planter. So. Well, it's about what, what is it wearing three and a half four feet for ADA? Yeah, Erica, can you come? What is it 36 to 48 inches high or 72? Or Tom. Yeah, I don't have it at my fingertips, but I think the top of the sign can be. Yeah. I think it has to do with the center of the sign. I'm actually not. I have to look it up. And again, but I think the thing about that is that. The town probably has specs for that. And if this is on those bands, it could be slid up and down. My guess is that it'll be pretty close in terms of being. Close to the planter or the top of the planter, but I think it can still exist in that space. And I think it would be legible from a handicap perspective. But there is a tree in there right now. Didn't we see a photo with a more recent growth? The tree is probably back here, but let me go. I thought it was in the planter. Yeah. Yeah. I see, I see. I get it. Yeah. Okay. Any other comments? I also like Lindsay's idea of putting it on the frame itself, but I realized that's a whole nother proposition at this point. I think it's a better idea than having it sticking out on the post. I actually feel like it might. Like if you were thinking about a piece of art in a gallery, you wouldn't necessarily put the sign on the frame of the art. So I do feel like there is some consistency in having them as separate entities. Like I said, I think you need some kind of graphic element to tie them together. So that the sign and the piece feel like they work together, but I think it would, may might be distracting for it to be sort of attached to the actual frame itself. I think that the frame in a dark color would make it look more like a piece that's been framed, so to speak. So if you're looking at the wayfarer, the wayfinding colors that darker reddish brown, maybe. I don't know that town common in black. I don't remember seeing that before, but the others are the ones that we're using. Yeah. The only issue with that might be too close to the brick color. Yeah, I think it's considerably darker. Yeah. You could even have the edge of it outlined in black. Maybe. And then have the sign be that same color with a text in white. Is that. Yeah, cream, whatever we've been doing, I think it's, I think it's dark with a cream colored font. I think. Yeah. Or we could do the cream background with the, with that color as a text color. Right. And then that would coordinate them in a way that would tie that together, but it would make, still make it stand out from the architecture of the little building. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, that seems like certainly a reasonable solution. So in terms of the font, you know, we could use some of those fonts if we can get them, especially for that bottom section with the, the description of the artist piece as well. Yeah, they are, they are proprietary fonts. They're just ones that are out there. Maureen can give them to you. And it doesn't take a designer. You would just replace the fonts. And also there's a sign size for those vertical. Rectangular signs. That's standard now, which isn't showing on here, but it's the one the writers walk used. Those are actually a little bigger than we need. So it would be a smaller version of that, but the proportions of height to width is sort of set in the way that finding program, whatever you call it. Do we want the town crest on there? Is that, I don't understand. So some of the signs have it. Some of them have it. I mean, it has a town project. It's, you know, it's easy enough to grab that logo and pop it on. You want to, you have a logo for your little gallery now. I don't know. Maybe this could go at the bottom or something. Are we making sense? This all seems doable in a fairly short time. Certainly this, this kind of, I mean, in terms of the color and changing the font and putting the crest on there, that seems like a pretty quick, quick fix. I mean, I'm not beholden to any color scheme really or font. So yeah, that seems. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm scrim over a metal sign. I mean a scrim over an aluminum sign. What's the. How are you having it made? Yeah, that's Jeremiah. He's, he's the one who's going to get it made. So he said he has a. You know, somebody can do pretty quick turnaround on that. Yeah, I think it's going to be like the, the other signs you see around that have the straps on the back. So it's, it's some kind of. I don't see a reason why you can't get him the final artwork by next week sometime. So, you know, there's plenty of time. Yeah. So if I may just to repeat people's suggestions, I would like it to consistent with the wayfinding system. You know, not necessarily entirely, but some of the elements from the wayfinding make the sign, ADA compliant. Yeah. Yeah. Have the sign to be the cream background with brown lettering as shown in the. Here with the town common, this brown. You had said, well, no, we were talking about the darker brown. And this one. Having it cream with the darker brown. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And then the darker brown for the frame. Darker. Darker brown. And then if we look to the left where it says visitor center, Jones library, we could do the dark that same darker brown for the type and then the cream for the background. So the frame would be the darker brown and then it'd be the type and then the green background. Is that. If everybody else agrees. Say that again. So cream background with darker brown lettering for the sign. Right. And then the darker brown color for the color of the frame. Okay. Yep. I got that. And then, and then consider placing the Amherst logo on the sign. And I think that. That's it. I think that the, the, the writer's walk signs, they are larger and they are conveying a lot more information that you need to build, but it might be a good reference for you to take a look at how, how the colors in this, the fonts were incorporated into conveying all of that info. And the logo as well. It's really small. It's at the bottom, but. I think it would be a good, a good starting point. Sure. Or jumping off point. Maureen, you can send him there. So he doesn't have to walk to one on the street and take a picture. Yeah, I'm actually trying to find it now. I can't remember what meeting it was, but yeah, I'll certainly email it to bill tomorrow. I can send it to. Yep. All right. All right. How's that sound? Are you. That's fine. Yeah. I'll be here next week and I can turn that around next week for sure. As long as that. Yeah, we'll get into Jeremiah and. I'm sure he could, that still gives a reason. We're still three weeks out. So it should be. I would be enough time. Okay. All right. I'll send it to bill tomorrow. I will certainly email you with all this info and we can touch base. So do, do you guys want to make a motion? Or do we continue this? Maybe, I don't know, maybe want to continue with until we see the. Or it could be, you know, positive recommendation with. With those suggestions. And then we could, if you guys feel comfortable, we could do this by email. Or we could have a quick meeting whenever. The sign is ready in the, in the frame is ready, whatever you guys. Wish. Or we could figure it out via email, whatever. Moving to preliminarily approved. With the conditions or with the plan is. Agreed upon at the meeting, something like that. Sure. Okay. Then if it comes through, we don't have to do anything else. Right. Okay. Is there a second to that? Did I just move that? So moved. And I think Tom's seconded. Okay. Any further discussion? I think we've probably given. A really thorough review of everything and you can always come back. So, okay. Then I'll do a roll call. Lindsay. Yes or no. Yes. Okay. Erica. Yes. Jan. Yes. Tom. Yes. Catherine. Yes. Okay. All right. Been moved and approved. Thank you. Okay. Sure. Could be a nice addition to Amherst. After all these years. I will say I did walk. But I want, I walked by yesterday to take another photo of the engravement of the brick to get a better photo for the slideshow. I saw that the art is in the windows and I was delighted. It's really fun to look at. So I recommend everyone to check it out when you get a chance. Yeah. Did you guys want to review the minutes from. Yeah. July. I'm going to sign off. Thank you so much. Okay. Yes. Thank you. From July 24th. Okay. June, June 24th. Whatever you have there. Yep. Okay. I'm going to put them up right now. I'm looking at. Oh, should I, I can give me one second. Looking at way fairing signs. These are all ones that you sent out preliminary. Yeah. You made comments on, right? Right. Yeah. So this was back in June 24th where you guys reviewed. The, oh, the suite Alice parking area and the mural at. Wild. No. Yeah. Thank you. Yep. And it seemed like the planning board. Except because Tom, you talked about it at the planning board meeting, the suite Alice parking. They seem to. Take everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They incorporated all of our comments. Yeah. For the trash. Right. That was more of a. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Does anybody have any corrections or additions to the minutes? I'm just probably. What's that? I moved to accept them. Okay. Is there a second? Okay, Erica. Okay. Let me take a roll call. Lindsay. Yes. Okay. Erica. Yes. Tom. Yes. Jan. Yes. Catherine. Yes. Okay. We've accepted those. Okay. All right. So I did head mentioned in an email that Amherst college is submitting an application for their way of finding system. And now staff, we're talking about. Looking at their way of finding and our way of finding and make sure they're, it all is jiving. Location wise and. All right. So, um, I'll go back to Tom on Thursday. I will schedule a meeting and hopefully that doodle poll. The times you indicated, um, we'll match up. Um, so maybe I hope to have scheduled meeting. At the end of August or perhaps the first week of September. So, uh, I'll go back to, uh, Tom, just a bit. Uh, it didn't seem like the planning board. Spent a lot of time, the archipelago project. Is that because they had studied it so carefully before the meeting? Yeah, I mean, everybody had our notes before the meeting. I think the biggest challenge was that the zoning board doesn't necessarily get to decide. If we had made a stipulation that X had to happen in order for Y, I think the planning board would have upheld it. But I think because we're, you know, the planning board's making a decision, for instance, about the rear setback based on whether we agree with the legal definition of this particular, I guess, waiver that they're seeking. And so I think for a lot of people, it's more of a legal matter than it is to be like the way this looks. And so I think that's part of the issue that I feel like I'm dealing with coming back and forth. When I go to one meeting, I'm like, this has to look this way. And I go to another meeting and that doesn't really matter so much in terms of, you know, whether or not it's legal for them to do that within the confines of a particular set of laws and rules. So I do think that there was less of a discussion about it because they can't, there was no way to, they didn't have a lot of leverage to say, yeah, redesign this entire facade, which, you know, sets back a project months. And I guess that wasn't worth the discussion for a lot of people. Yeah. Any other thoughts from the board about our most recent recommendations? Seemed like Sweet Alice hit the sweet spot with the planning board. The other, yeah, the other one like, oh, yeah, okay. Well, I personally thought you guys did a wonderful job, particularly at the last meeting for July 19th for Archipelago. So, Well, we didn't make any like really major, major strong recommendations. I think we discussed what we could and unless they were going to take it completely off the drawing board and start over, it is what it is. And so I'm still a little concerned about the north side with no landscaping, a lot of things about that, but it's done so. I have to say my most recent blog in the emmer's current, I don't know if any of you saw that about development and preservation. I got a lot of email about that. People are very worked up about all this. I'm sure they are, sure they are. But for me, thinking back on what we, our discussions with Archipelago and even Archipelago, this is a perfect example of what we don't have. If we had had a master plan for that block from Triangle Street up to the toy box, that area, that with a vision that I don't know, sort of gave direction to developers so that we would have a cohesive and vibrant group of buildings there, they'd be in a different place. But they're working blind, we're working blind. So I don't know, I won't get started on that, but I do feel like there's something missing in the town. Do we have anything else, Maureen? Any public comments, anybody from the public out there? There is not. Okay, all right. Then do I hear a motion to adjourn? Call and move it. Okay. Okay, been moved in second. And then all in favor to adjourn, say aye. You can say. Aye. Okay, all right. Well, very good. Stallworth Design Review Board coming together once again. And welcome back, Maureen. Thank you. Yeah. We'll all be in touch about the sign in the future meeting. All right. Very good. Take care.