 Right after noon folks Ted Rolston here downtown Honolulu think tech studios at three o'clock actually not four o'clock So you may have to adjust your brain if you think this is actually four o'clock and you looking for Kami Lucas she'll be on at four. We're on a three today We did a swap a roo so that she could attend a meeting downtown that explains why we're on here at think tech away It where the drone leaves at three instead of four Anyway, where the drone leads the drone leads to absolutely cool and incredible new ways of expression And that's one of the aspects of drones that we'll hear a lot about in the future I'd like to welcome to our show today. Dr. Scott wrestling of Berkeley right not someplace else right in sports association Yeah, that's right association and many other affiliations I might add over the time of the past and probably a lot more in the future and joining us also from California is Bruce Parks and Bruce is a business partner of scots. He's supposed to be working today. He should be tired and ready to Knock it off and take it easy, but look at him. He's already on a little hot time Ever since you left he's been really taking it easy looks to me. So yeah, but you know, you got to remember it's six o'clock here Well, it's Friday. That's for working time over here I'm what's wrong with you Bruce. Anyway, Bruce welcome aboard again. You've been on this show several times and Scott first timer anyway, we're talking about an absolutely incredible aspect of The drone world of today and incredibly larger in the future and that's the world of drone racing and When you think of drone racing if you're in Hawaii here, we're not talking about drag racing What on Sandy Beach Road at two o'clock in the morning? That's drag racing We're not talking about oval racing around the track and kind of knock each other off. We're talking about a whole new method of Rapidly evolving capability against multiple challenges that are thrown at you and maybe an unstructured or unscheduled way And you have the air components. They have three dimensions here Plus we have time and we have the need to extract information from what's going on in the on the in the race course and make Decisions really fast and not hit anything on the way. That's a really layman's expression of what drone racing is all about But before I ask Scott to talk a little bit of more about that my own perception is that we have not only the racing function And the interest in that we have a great draw that can bring in students and and their parents and educators and such because of the of the The rapid time cycle and the need for technology and the need for creative and critical thoughts to make this work so without Without me running the the whole circuit you're running up all the time. Let me just ask Dr. Scott, I'll call you Scott and tell us a little about a little bit about how you came into the drone racing game And what's the future here on a wahoo very shortly look at us? Well, actually there the whole thing started in Hawaii actually I was I was down here on some department of education business I was working with the Department of Education and some of the emergent schools here And I happened to bring my drone with me that had a brand new new technology to it called first-person view and so you could fly around as if you were sitting in the cockpit of the of the drone and So I actually this is here in Hawaii. Yeah, that's right. So I did it on the big island and And I because I had a bunch of kids with me that I they all stood around my monitor And we all looked at it and they and that fascinated them and that kind of kick started my oh This is kind of a very interesting thing for teaching stem because it's the first time that I've ever seen like higher-level critical thinking and problem-solving kind of Suddenly be Experiential and practice-based instead of standing a lecture and trying to tell a kid how to learn critical thinking problem-solving skills that any doctor would need or Surgeon or anything like that so you can mentally many look immediately apply the new insight You've got turn it into a piece of hardware or a piece of software and test it out Mm-hmm And the motivation is is that now you've got racing and that means that you're going to be up till three o'clock in the Morning making sure your airframe is going to be able to let you kick your friend's butt And if you think back to the history of the automotive business it I think in 1905 or something like that cars were just new on the market They were racing them already. I think my Indy 500 the first one was something like 1908 or so so 1949 Was when NASCAR started and it literally was when okay when NASCAR came out of the bootlegging industry So on the weekends the bootleggers never raced Sorry, never never ran bootleg never bootleg. That's right So what they did was is that on Sunday they all raced because then that's when all the punters would take a look at who had the fast car And on Mondays when they got hired So this is how the whole thing started of win on Sunday and And race on and get paid on Monday, right? And so that's how the whole thing kickstarted so in true form of that Drone racing literally came out of kind of the the rebels and the the people that weren't Allowed on AMA fields and so we kind of sort of non-conformist you might say you know non-conformist We were also kind of false, you know our day jobs were typically working for Google or Berkeley You know interest in technology and soldering skills and that kind of stuff and so naturally when you got two drones together Well, you're gonna happen, right? And so that's the rest is history. That's pretty good Bruce. How about you? How did you get into this game? Well, I had a bad day one day and met Scott No, that I mean that that's that's a joke of course, but no I met Scott here in Sacramento, which is where I live With the very first drone that when the first drone nationals were run here in Sacramento in July of last year You weren't running liquor or something in drones were you that led to that discovery or something like that Bruce Well, I'm sorry say that again you weren't running liquor or illegal booze or something like that is that's how you got into this game then Well, yeah, we were kind of dropping off bottles from the air And so you met Scott so so I met Scott and I've been working with Scott for the past year trying to Help to facilitate, you know getting the racing sport up and running And when you know it's interesting in in Bruce, you know Bruce is being incredibly modest here But Bruce has been instrumental in making sure that that drone regulation also dovetails into all the FAA stuff It dovetails into the safety aspects of things And so drone racing because it is the pinnacle of it's the spirit tip of drones and UAV stuff So it's always been kind of the the first instance where when we walk out onto the field people go wow Is that a drone and then they look at it and they go well there's no missiles on it and I'm pretty sure that thing is not going to be peeping in my window because You're too busy racing and it's really fast and loud noisy and fun and they it's the first time that it switched the public's Opinion about what drones are and what they're what they can be used for so it's the first use case It's been above them beyond anything that has a camera on it or you know It's because most of the the drones right now and we're still stuck in the media saying oh, well You're gonna you know, we have to build all this big privacy legislation around it But in fact, it's not the case. It's we're moving very quickly away from that And so drone racing is is not only just a great sport and fun to do but It's addressing this big problem that we're having with Understanding what drones can can change and do for us in the next century, you know That's I got to talk about Bruce a little bit with you listening of course Bruce But taking to it to the point you just raised I had a briefing about two three years ago I was invited to brief a bunch of NSF retirees National Science Foundation retirees on drones I thought okay this I'm not sure who's gonna brief who here and went to the house for the people were assembled and they had no idea These are NSF scientists retired up. I might say but they had no idea that we're talking to scale and innocent and and Not armed and not part of you know 110,000 pound things that are flying over somewhere and dropping bombs. They they had no one ever show them And I would think that that community of all would get the picture But no it doesn't so the point you are raising is that we really need to over communicate that picture over and over again And I'll say that talking about Bruce we first met about a year ago when he came over for a Both of the workshop that I'm on I and then out in the cool. Oh, and we had him up at the workshop at UH and I Was sitting next to Bruce and he was explaining a bunch of things I thought okay exactly what kind of an engineer are you because I hear engineering related terms But I don't hear I don't him Don't hear him stuck in those terms. I hear him going way much broader than that So it's all trying to figure out there exactly where did Bruce come from in this game because it was such a rich Conversation and it wasn't one dimension, which is what I'm normally used to experience again Then Bruce told me what he really does and I was totally struck by that But your point is and how he operates is so important because we have to get that expression of the utility and and remove from it that that Appearance and that aspect that the term drone unfortunately. Well, let's let me let's just take an example of how fast this is really moving So we did that the first 2015 drone national championships in Sacramento the day after that I got a phone call from ESPN ESPN said we're interested in broadcasting this as a sport And so that took us about eight months because there were no rules and regulations Disney is part of ESPN. So we had to really Rewrite the rules of how do you use drones in an entertaining Format and a broadcast format and so over the over the eight months that we finally did come to an arrangement drones racing has become so substantial there's a lot of money that's being put into it and They wanted to do not only just one or two races, but they wanted to do a couple of races Over three years plus an international distribution thing So it suddenly means that drone racing is now broadcast There was a couple of their pieces that need to be put into place before that so we did 2016 drone nationals we did that in New York City That was just recently earlier this year just recently like a couple weeks ago And the the reason why we did that is it literally was ten minute ferry ride from Wall Street so we wanted to show Wall Street and Investors why they were all investing in this because we have a lot of people that are interested in investing in but they never experienced first-person view flying and so we put that all together and There was a lot of interest in it But the bigger one that came out of that was the second piece that's required from For for drone racing. It's the fans and the brands are basically the the the underpinnings of that because NASCAR didn't NASCAR wouldn't you know exist if it didn't have your fans and your brands on there The piece that NASCAR didn't have in there that it's required of us is the FAA because we are an aerial sport We have airframes that we are traditional that so our Our defining moment of this is a legitimate sport came when we got the phone call from the FAA on Tuesday It said of this week of last week Okay, actually maybe two weeks ago just after the nationals and they said to us they said to us Actually, this is really fantastic. Thank you for putting it in the most dense national airspace that that you could ever have We had probably 500 full-scale helicopter flights over around us over that those three days All from the Statue of Liberty And we put up 1,000 drones in the air over those three days with zero incidents And so what that meant is is that pilots now are becoming so proficient in their close proximity and they're flying and their Skills that it we proved to the FAA that drone sports is a legitimate sport And they just invited us to have Accreditation at the same level of red boy air racing now So what we're now seeing is is the ushering in of a decade of sports that are going to be drone related That are going to be managed officially by the FAA, you know, that's a really important observation and Appreciation of the FAA frankly FAA we often look at as as the know people know know and know can't do it But there's a whole other side of the FAA that's that's obligated to generate competitive in the U.S. Business and Recently the FAA has opened the door on educational interpretation because we all realize that we need a workforce that is really skilled in thinking in the complex method of thinking and the critical thinking and ethical design making Design decisions that is needed to make the drone business work So the drone business is moving faster than the workforce can support it That's correct. So therefore there's an interpretation that says you don't even need To deal with the certification and registration issues if you're an educational institution The teacher or the professor may have issues there, but the students can use drones in their in their work and Bypass a lot of the more complex regulations that control that so this is designed to produce Strong educational themes so we can build that workforce When you have to look at it because you know we hired the FAA We hired the FAA to specifically protect us and keep us safe That's what their job is right and so they did their job They came in and we had this proliferation of drones and explosion of drones and they all went well Wait wait wait wait we have to make sure that we keep this safe And so as soon as there was you know the blanket. No very first came out But what I also saw was is that there was some very interesting Proactive pieces towards okay show us so we did so we did drone racing we did it on two times We had both of them as an observers on site and they walked away going like oh, okay Let's let's make this into a scientific measure with rules and regulations. Let's do certificate of waivers Let's do all the pieces because this is legitimate sport. This is a commercial piece that can That America that America can actually Engage in and and make happen. Let me take that very observation and build it into our UAS test site function out of here in Hawaii Yeah, you get back from the first break very exciting. Okay, let's talk about on our first break Hey, how you doing? Welcome to a botchy talk. My name is Andrew Langing I'm your co-host and we have a nice program here every Friday at 1 o'clock I think tech studios where we talk about technology and we have a little bit of fun with it So join us if you can thanks aloha Aloha, I'm kawi Lucas host of Hawaii is my mainland every Friday here on think tech Hawaii I also have a blog of the same game at kawi lucas.com where you can see all of my past shows Join me this Friday and every Friday at 3 p.m. Aloha Aloha, this is reg baker with business in Hawaii We're a show that broadcasts every Thursday at 2 o'clock We would love to hear from you and you can reach us in several different ways We have a hotline that you can call in at 415 871-2474 or you can email us at think tech Hawaii comm or you can tweet us at think tech Hi Looking forward to hearing from you and seeing you on our next show Aloha That are all sent here in our studio downtown hall of think tech studios our show where the drone leaves got wrestling once again Scott thanks for coming on and we have Bruce Park standing by in the California as we attempt to quickly go through some really important and insight ridden insight rich Aspects of drone racing what we were talking about just before the break was it the what you were bringing up Scott Is that the FAA has turned to you the organization that said I am learning I the FAA I'm learning from what you're doing I see how it's done professionally we can think of regulations and controls that would enable and allow that and so rather than say no We'll say yeah We'll help you figure this out and and this is exactly what the FAA wants in these FAA state test sites They've created they want to push beyond the bounds of currently certified operation the online the site cluster operate How about cluster operations and how about one guy running four drones against each other? I mean all the things that the FAA wants to get information on and they've Constructed these FAA test sites for that reason are served by addressing drone racing So the idea is just as we were thinking here break was it somehow we need to take the state of Hawaii drone Test site function and have in it an aspect that is associated with drone racing and that could be the place that the people come from around the country to run their systems against our our real and virtual Obstacle courses, and then that fits back to the the UAS traffic management program that Bruce and I first talked about a year or so ago at NASA Ames Bruce what's your current knowledge of the how that UTM programs going and how could we associate drone racing with the kind of discoveries that UTM needs? Well, I think that you know what's going on now with UTM. I mean there's a big conference coming up I think in a couple of weeks in New York There's still there's still working on it to try to develop a system that will allow For the integration of drones into the national airspace. It's a you know, all I can say is that it's a work in progress And you know of course the FAA is I mean they're designing it to help the FAA It's being run by NASA Generally speaking So the intention is to see if they can't how they figure out how they integrate these things I don't think that drone racing per se really infringes on that space to any appreciable degree I mean we're racing, you know less than 50 feet most of the time So I don't I don't think that that's going to be an issue of integration But the FAA is is really watching closely as to what happens across the industry and I and I know that with respect to the drones drone racing that they're currently Looking at community-based organizations to kind of step in and help define what safe racing is and to try to facilitate that and the Drone Pilots Federation which which I put together it that's the intention of that is to become one of those CBO Operations so that we can help facilitate Help facilitate what the FAA is doing with respect not only to drone racing but to Utilization in general, you know and to take the point you just made about the drone racing not infringing upon the international airspace Because of the way it's going to be controlled I think there's probably a next step beyond that which is to take the cognition and the way decisions are made and the way Sensors are put together and the way a system like this reports to a system like this so the pilot gets to see what's going on There's probably an extract out of that that could be provided to the unmanned traffic management system in order to Give them the benefit of that higher level of Recognition or cognition is taking place well tell I want to interject here I I think that that's that that's a correct observation, but what you're really seeing is the convergence of technologies Across a wide spectrum the most extreme example of that that I can come that I've recently heard is that a doctor took a drone Pilot and put him in charge didn't put him in charge allowed him to utilize the Da Vinci remote surgical apparatus. He took the test He got a 95% because that pilot was accustomed to working with forward-position view cameras I mean that's that's really you talk about a convergence going from flying a drone to being able to operate a very Sophisticated surgical system. That's a big leap that people are making it that is incredible And that goes to the cognition issue and the pandai coordination and other things that you and the world of virtual reality manage So that's it. That's a great Transition Bruce from the subject of the specific technology and components here to the larger how they integrate into the expressive layer So what drone technology basically has a really simple format to it? So it has as a camera but in the front and so using a set of goggles here You actually control the this drone Remotely by looking through the camera and so the camera basically just projects in your in your goggles And so now you're sitting in the cockpit flying 80 to 100 miles an hour however fast you are And so what's what's really interesting about this technology is that it appeals to everybody's? You know dream of flight and it makes everybody a superhero and it and it gives you super power So you can leap tall trees in a single bound and and it's it is pushing or become a Da Vinci surgeon I'm coming out of here in real life. That's right So I mean that's the basic of things where things are going We're headed very closely into a convergence of other things that are happening Which is the e-sports is happening right now, and that's a lot of gaming the augmented reality like that That's with magic leap and they have a half billion dollars to do Data overlays within a 3d within a real space and so we're having this convergence that's kind of happening on us and Drone racing is actually a great sport to do all of those because what it does is that it needs all of those types of Information overlays to go just from drone sports, but also up into the UAVs larger UAVs inspection Pipeline stuff, you know anything that is and from the industrial side of things There's a there's a really kind of an interesting leap in a integration between those two and I'll give you an example You know I was talking to somebody about doing pipeline inspection or very close proximity Inspection of things and our pilots are so good at flying this in very very fast measure that they can hit things And within three inches they can fly through a you know a window at in three inches to spare going 60 miles an hour So if we could copy that thinking process they go through and generate sensors that that that feed that that algorithm and that Targeting guidance navigation control system internally here and turn it into automation So that the mission can run itself, and you don't have to have that guy on the stick That would be the transfer that would be awesome if we can push that forward it And I'll you know we're talking about but it's gonna have a couple of things here because I'm you know I'm look I'm a true believer of artificial life and Artificial intelligence for quite some time, but the issue that I see is that technology is super good at at Factual pieces of collection like the Google Google itself in the web is a fantastic example You can ask anything to you but if you ask Google or Syria to say hey take me down to the store and get a blue one There's no contextual relevance that they understand it So it fails the Turing test on there because us as humans We're fantastic at contextual understanding and just in biasing modification adjustment right compensation Whereas we are not good at factual. We can't even remember that you know somebody ten minutes ago Yeah Bruce So yeah, so this is a really interesting convergence of where we are and I think that you know with what I say with Bruce is doing You know Bruce is part of the AUV SI which is you know up in the really large-scale stuff It's way about my pay grade, but the the drone sports and drone racing is is now becoming a big Permittable force in the room because it's the fastest of the innovation It's the it's the guys making all the parts from 3d printers that are in their garage that are making this thing move extra fast And so that's the really thrilling part of innovation. I see that's happening And I think that's where we can find these vectors that extract light out in other areas I know that thing that got me my attention. I first met you guys about a year ago And I've stayed away from drone racing till I think Mike L8 opened a box and showed me this exact item I said my god this thing is totally Purpose design. This is the first piece of drone. I've ever seen it is really well thought-through. It's designed for its mission It's got foldable legs and legs fold up so that if you hit something it just folds up and you put it in a box Easy that way. This is all carbon composite. It's all laser-cut and such there's nothing left on the table here in terms of unexploded Exploded technology and shot miles version one and we're already on version two now that there you go This is like six months old. It is obsolete. Yeah, I'm like 71 years old on the way obsolete, but The other piece is that the police department the fire department the law enforcement people the lifeguards here could really benefit from this Technology if we can just make that transition and get it to them in a way that they don't have to become specialists If and I'd like to think of some exercises we can run here that would generate that exposure without the exposure You don't have the context in which to make the connection. You and I had this conversation a while ago And it literally was you know the current technology that's used for SAR search and rescue and emergency services By the time you get it fired up and you do the checklist and do all this up the guy's already drowned So that way right we have to it's a paradigm shift, right? It's a complete change So if we push that under the auspice of racing then we're going to that's it right That's exactly right and we need Bruce's help on that because you need to make sure it's tied in with UTM and other other aspects of development And you know, this is exciting stuff. It's so exciting. We've just about run our time out We have this half an hour format now, which is a tougher talkative guy like me to get fast. Anyway, Bruce We will have to shut down her in a minute Final thoughts on your side sir and by the way make them sound really impressive. So Scott thinks you're working hard Well, so my final final thought is that you know in the past Hawaii has been geographically isolated That's not true any longer So the things that you're talking about Ted can become a reality that that that your test centers can work that the Technology can be brought to Hawaii by wire You know, I mean it the potential there is is really great. So I I'm glad to see you're doing what you're doing Let's take what take Bruce already has your phones on let's give Bruce the goggles He could fly on lanai from his he could chase lounge there in Sacramento, right? That would be right step I like that and Dr. Scott wrestling. Thanks so much for coming on And thanks so much for taking the lead and making all this useful at the yeah, you know my level and such Well, don't forget that we're doing the net the world racing championship right 38 countries 200 pilots on cool Oh, right countries 200 pilots cool orange in October October 17th at the 22nd go to drone worlds comm Can we put up a website drone worlds comm drone world comm? Okay, and Jerry really skilled at the drone world world Okay, and the public That's correct. Yep, we're gonna see basically 200 people You might call them silicone valley All around the world, but I mean he's the equivalent of the global Correct. This is the level of motivation energy and intelligence coming in This is the best of the best everybody had to qualify in their country So you were you're going to see the most spectacular That's pretty cool including team USA. All right. Well, Scott wrestling. Thanks for coming on the show again and Bruce Thanks for standing by in Sacramento. Absolutely Ted. Well, thank you very much And don't look back to relax because the boss is watching