 Hello, I'm Joseph Ronca and welcome to Creating the Human Rights Culture, which calls for a lived awareness of human rights principles in our minds and hearts and integrated into our everyday lives. Thus, it aims to promote awareness of the human rights triptych which consists of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights at the center. It is the authoritative definition of human rights standards drafted under the able leadership of Eleanor Roosevelt. That document consists of five crucial notions, human dignity, non-discrimination, civil and political rights, economic, social, and cultural rights, and the rights to solidarity. It is increasingly being referred to as customary international law, which all nations and peoples of the world must abide. On the right panel in brief are conventions which have the status of international treaty, such as the rights of the child, the convention to eradicate racial discrimination, the convention to eliminate discrimination against women, and the convention on the rights of people with disabilities. On the left panel are implementation measures such as reports of special rapporteurs, reports to United Nations monitoring committees, and world conferences. But again, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the authoritative definition of human rights standards, which was drafted under the able leadership of Eleanor Roosevelt. Hi everyone, I'm Joseph Ronca, and welcome again to another episode of Creating a Human Rights Culture. I'm here today with Dr. Anthony Hill, Associate Professor of Social Work, whom I call Tony. How you doing? Good, good. Okay, thanks for doing this. Pleasure to be here. And it's a pleasure to have you. And today we're going to talk about healthy masculinity with an emphasis upon issues pertaining primarily to adolescence. Healthy femininity is also important, of course, as according to General Comment 20 on the implementation of the United Nations Convention of the Rights of the Child. And our viewers, you ought to know that we are the only country in the world that has not ratified this major United Nations Convention. President Obama had called it shameful. I think he said the word absolutely before that, but I'm not sure. I have no idea what Trump talks about in regard to this. Should have looked it up. I'm rolling my eyes. Am I allowed to? Anyway. So I just want to say that we don't want to minimize the issues that adolescent girls have and women have in general. In fact, Monday was the international day to eradicate domestic violence against women. And we'll get into this anyway. There's a comment number, what did I say, seven on the rights of the child regarding girls' rights and the situation of girls in the world. And it says that during adolescence, gender inequalities become more significant. And inequality in stereotyping suggests that girls often intensify, leading to more serious violations that the stereotyping against girls often intensifies, leading to more serious violations of their rights, including child enforced marriage, female genital mutilation, gender-based physical and sexual violence abuse, exploitation and trafficking. We certainly want to acknowledge and don't want to minimize these violations. Say if there's anyone out there that wants to do a show on healthy femininity, we'll get to healthy masculinity soon. Just give me a call or josephronka at gmail.com. We can't do everything. So social justice is a struggle, kind of a Sisyphusian struggle. And we need to set priorities from time to time. Then, thus, we also need to acknowledge the UN General Comment 20, which refers to adolescent boys' issues that we ought to pay particular attention. In brief, that comment says, traditional concepts of masculinity and gender norms linked to violence and dominance can compromise boys' rights. These include the imposition of harmful initiation rights, exposure to violence, joining gangs, coercion into the militia and military, coercion into extremist groups and trafficking. The denial of boys' vulnerability to physical and sexual abuse and exploitation, posing pervasive and significant barriers to boys gaining access to sexual and reproductive, positive, and let me add health and masculinities, overcome cultural values based on machismo, or as a machismo, whatever it's called, and promote greater recognition of the gender dimensions of the abuses that boys experience. According to that comment, states should recognize the importance of engaging with boys and men, as well as girls and women, in all measures, introduced to achieve gender equality. Well, that was a mouthful. I could go on and on. Oops, one more thing. Sorry. One more thing. You're going to get talking in a minute here. We're both professors, so I can't help myself. How many more minutes are you on? 20? No, it's okay. Incidentally, today is, well, this is the month of November, and November 19th is known as International Men's Day. March 8th is International Women's Day, and maybe we could do something then. And November 20th is International Children's Day. When that document I mentioned before, the Rights of the Child, was ratified by the United Nations General Assembly, and entered into force theoretically. Not many people pay attention to it, but at least it's something. And many people are feeling that the Rights of the Child is a great document, but it sort of defines children up until age 18, and, you know, nowadays people are living home till their 20s. We sort of have a prolonged adolescence. People are paying off tuition. It's hard to get jobs until they're professionals, so there's sort of a prolonged adolescence. And people are saying we should have a document on the Rights of Adolescence. That's probably coming soon, but let's at least work with the Rights of the Child. Okay, well, that was a teeny-weeny nutshell of sort of a launching pad to talk about healthy masculinity. Dr. Hill, the floor is now yours, and go for it. If you could talk about any topics you'd like to talk about, and this should take about two episodes. So go for it. Say whatever you want. I want to thank you for having me. Pleasure to have you. I've had an opportunity to do some exciting initiatives looking at healthy masculinity. Okay. And there's two groups I'd like to talk about. One is an organization in Springfield called 100 Males to College. Sounds good to me. Males to College really looks at young men in Springfield area from all the high schools and really asks them the question, what type of men do they want to be? So who they are, what type of man do they want to be, and this issue of what does it mean to be a man? So I want to talk a little bit about that program and the success of that program. Basically, with that particular program, it really looks at students, male students of all races from all schools and really began to think about what do you want your life to look like? Because there was Dr. Yolanda Johnson, who is the director of student support services, pupil services in Springfield, said we've got to do something with our boys because our boys are falling through the cracks. You better believe it. And suicide rates have gone up more than girls. We don't want to compare, but you've got the point. Keep on going. So this program has been four years in existence. It started in Springfield as a pilot and now it's been extended to other communities. So I understand in Worcester and Framingham and Brockton they also have this program and also Salem. So those other communities have started this initiative as well. And it is a collaboration between UMass Amherst, Springfield, Techno Community College and Westfield State. And we're getting these young men on college campuses talking about what does it mean and to look the grades, their attendance, college writing essay, college writing essays, personal statements, financial aid and really positioning, preparing to them to think about their future. In addition, we've been really having conversations with them about what does it mean to be a man? And for them, what type of man do they want to become? So we're really examining that concept and basically what they say is very limited. They have restrictions on what it means to be a man. So we've had great conversations with them talking to them about the importance of being able to ask for help. The importance of being able to ask for help, the importance of being able to show a variety of emotions other than anger. So I think that's very vital, very important to let them know that it is okay to cry. It's interesting, there's a video clip, a very popular video clip by Gillette. And that was a very popular clip and it talks about not letting boys be boys. Is that the one you sent me? Yes, so I would like to show that. We will show that. Yes. We'll show it right now. We'll show it right now. Okay. Okay. So let's show it. All right. Bullying. The Me Too movement against sexual harassment. Is this the best a man can get? Is it? We can't hide from it. It's been going on far too long. We can't laugh it off. What I actually think she's trying to say. Making the same old excuses. Boys will be boys. Boys will be boys. Boys will be boys. But something finally changed. Allegations regarding sexual assault and sexual harassment. But she says we don't want to have sex with a man like that. And there will be no going back. Because we, we believe in the best in men. Men need to hold other men accountable. Smile, sweetie. Come on. To say the right thing. To act the right way. Not cool. Not cool. Some already are. In ways big. Young men. And small. I am strong. I am strong. But some is not enough. Is that how we treat each other, okay? Because the boys watching today. Will be the men of tomorrow. Okay. So now let's talk about it. So what's interesting about this clip is really allowing young men to realize that what does it mean to be a male masculinity. And really it's more than just being tough. It's more than really getting behind this mask of I have to be involved with sports. I have to be a womanizer. And I have to be aggressive. So we're saying there's more to being a man than just fitting into that box. So we talked to these young men about who are some healthy men in their lives and what type of man do they want to become going forward so they're not repeating the cycle. So Joe, you know as social workers you look at any type of family. You'll see areas of strength. And you'll see areas of some challenging issues that repeat from one generation down to the next generation. So what we say to young men, if you did not have a father in your life and young men now, you were adolescents, one day you may become a father. Do you want your own children to experience the same hurt that you've experienced? And we also look at popular media. And we look at some of the music that they listen to. In this case hip-hop music, but it could be a whole wide variety of music. And we really look at, I don't know about you Joe, but what I'm finding is that now with social media, it's tough being a kid nowadays. Oh God. There's so many pressures and temptations that children face now, but you know I didn't have to face. Then Eric finds that article over the weekend. Did the internet turn out the way we wanted it to? Yeah. And it's just alienating people. You know our students talk about this. In the increase in anxiety and depression. Yes. But how we use the popular media and the students love it. But we began to really deconstruct the images that are in the music videos. And just simply just ask questions. So the students are listening and enjoying the music. But then we ask questions and simple questions like, how are them in dressed? How are the women dressed? How come the women are dressed in bikinis? And then they begin to look at this. And then they begin to ask questions about what type of relationship would you want your mom to be a part of? Your auntie, your sister, your siblings to be about. So we begin to have them think about who they are and who they want to become. So usually when they talk about what does it mean to be a man? We say, you know, if someone says to you, be a man or man up. Yeah. And what you will find is that they will say it means don't cry. Don't show emotions. Keep it all in. And what we're finding is by keeping those emotions in, eventually it will explode. So we're giving the young men the opportunities to fully express a range of emotions. So that's just a little bit about some of the work. Very exciting work. The young men have really began to go to college. They've picked up their grades or attending more. But more importantly, what they've created is a brotherhood. They've created a brotherhood where they support each other. So really having authentic conversations where they create a safe space, are vulnerable to each other, share with each other. And it's just not their school, but when they see each other, they really, really provide a sense of support and collaboration with each other. So it's really a sight to see. So that's just one initiative that I've been fortunate to be a part of over the last few years. Tell us about the other initiatives. Another initiative is right on the campus. I'm not going to let you go away, pretty weird. Got to talk about the mistakes, how they worked out, what to learn from mistakes. Absolutely. Absolutely. No successes only on my show. That's right. That's right. So, well, I'll tell you, we're talking about mistakes. Oh, we got to learn from what works and what doesn't. What's interesting is that the young ladies have seen this program over the last several years. And they say, hey, what about us? We need a program that's geared towards us because we face pressures. When you think about social media and body image and weight and anxiety and trying to fit in and what does it mean? Not only be a man, but what does it mean to be a woman? So I'm excited to say that they've also created an organization. And initially it was called, well, now it's called College Bound Girls. So they've seen the success of this program and they've picked it up and ran with it. So it was really exciting by that. What I want to share with another initiative that I've had an opportunity to work with. Yeah, well, you don't have to jump into the failures here. Just talk about good stuff. Keep on going. Well, keep on going. We'll do whatever you want. It's your show. Okay. Well, right on the college campus there's another organization called the Man of Excellence. And these are college students. And basically in both cases creating a safe space for these young men to come in and talk about what does it mean to be a male? And again, what's really, really affirming is that these young men have come in, worked together, and their particular themes that they wanted to address was how do we take care of ourselves? So we're on this college campus. And we want to be leaders. And we're really looking at this term called toxic masculinity and how do I sort of exist as a male? So we've been fortunate to really talk to them. They wanted to also focus on self-care. So many of them coming from environments where there were a lot of trauma in their background. So coming to a college campus, really meeting with each other, looking at how they can become leaders, and really formed a nice network. Not only do they meet together, but they formed an agreement to focus on community service. So they go out and help community service. And, you know, they go out and help with one of the organizations in Holyoke called Providence Ministries. And also there's a neighbor in the Springfield College Facinity where they go, a bunch of them in Mass go out and do some long landscaping work for them. So what's really interesting is that they've really formed a nice cohesive bond. And it's a safe place where they can be vulnerable and talk about the challenges of being male. But also talk about relationships, talk about their struggles in college, challenges in college. One of the greatest things I've seen is I said, listen, I can't stay for this meeting because I have an exam and to see the young men say to the other young man, man, you can do this. Go ace that exam. So really created a nice fellowship of brotherhood that was there. So with these two groups, I have been able to facilitate a day where the high school young men from one particular school came on to the college campus and the young men at the college facilitated a full day. So they had them take a tour, but they created an opportunity for them to work with these college students to talk about college but talk about anything that they wanted to talk about about how they also could see themselves on the college campus. So this healthy masculinity is really, really vital and important. And I also serve as a Title IX investigator. So I think the importance of this work. Which means? Well, it's really looking at providing equitable services for women on campus. But my particular role as a Title IX investigator is really looking at sexual harassment, sexual assault. So I think there's a lot of education to really talk to young men about consent because when you talk about healthy masculinity, and you mentioned also in your opening, healthy femininity, colleges can be a very dangerous place for young women on college campus. So the issue of dating violence and also sexual assault and teaching these young men the importance of consent. So I think that's also very valuable lessons that we're teaching the college students as well. Great. Keep on going. So I guess what we're trying to examine on earth is that there are some unwritten rules. There's this mask. There's some unwritten rules about what it means to be a man and if you don't fit into that box. So we're trying to create a healthy culture with both the high school and the college students is to really be authentic and genuine and to be who authentic and true to who they are and who they want to become. So usually when they talk about traits and they talk about what are masculine traits, what are feminine traits and they say, well, as a man you have to be responsible. You have to be a protector. You have to be a good integrity of character. And we really say, well, those are just human traits. So we're really looking at social constructs. So what we're really looking at is the importance of human humanity, respecting humanity. And really how to have- Just human rights. So that's about having a human rights culture. Definitely. Respecting each other. Absolutely. So this issue of dignity, you know, I was thinking about Dr. Donna Hicks when she has that book on dignity. And what she talks about is, you know, dignity is- So article one of the Universal Declaration. Yes. That we should treat others with dignity. Yes. And brotherhood. Yes. Telling her Roosevelt wanted sisterhood also that she got an X. Okay. So the importance of it's not something, unlike respect, dignity is not something earned and unearned, which is respect is. You know, respect you based on you earned it or you didn't earn it. But dignity is a birthright. It's something that you're born with. Yes. You know. And I really like the image that Dr. Hicks talks about when she says, what happens when you see a baby in the room and people will ooh and ah over the baby. But what happens as that baby gets older? It sort of loses its uniqueness and specialness. But then she said wouldn't it be great if everyone had a baby picture around their neck because everyone wants to be unique, special. Uh huh. And I think that's how we need to treat others in society. Another point I want to make was there's another video- These two. That I wanted to share with you. And I'll make sure you get this clip as well. But it's very interesting. It's about a four or five year old boy. And he's going to the doctor to get a shot. And the nurse gives him a shot. And a very caring dad is there. You know. And his dad is laughing. And it's interesting that four or five years old, he tells the boy after he gets the shot, don't cry. Interesting. Don't cry. Come on. Be a man. Don't cry. Be a man. And he's laughing. And it's really something to think about because at four and five years old, what images, you know, what message is he conveying to a son about being able to, number one, ask for help, being able to get support about troubling things. And what's interesting to think about, he's five now, four or five now. But what internal messages is he learning about asking for help, expressing emotions. And I think eventually. That are reinforced by the media. Yes. Yes. Yes. Be tough. Have this mask. Don't cry. So when we looked at that video earlier, it talks about what type of men are we trying to create in this particular video with the young boy getting a shot. I don't think the father was neglectful or abusive in any way. But it's interesting to think about if that particular child was a female, the parental response would have been different. Right. I'm sure that the dad would have picked the daughter up and said, I got you. Daddy loves you. Everything's going to be okay. I know it hurts. And the issue is why couldn't he not say that for his son as well? This issue of I got to toughen him up, you know. And it's also interesting to think about. Millennia of socialization. Yes. Yes. And how men are socialized. And also it's interesting to think of too, it could have been a situation where the mom, she could have embraced him and said, you know, son, you know, it's okay. It's okay to cry. Or she could have did the same thing that dad did. And said, hey, listen, you are the man of the house. Or you can't cry because you are a male. And it's interesting just to think about, as you mentioned, socialization, but think about the long range impact of this. When the child is 10, when the child is 15, when the child is 20, when the child is 25. So this takes a life on its own. Whereas maybe he's 25 and he may be in a heterosexual marital relationship. And the wife will say, hey, he doesn't talk. He doesn't express emotions. I want him to talk more, you know. So it's really interesting to think about the importance and the vital nature of really looking at healthy masculinity. So I'm really glad I had a chance to talk about it. You're going to have more of a chance. I know this time is up for episode one. Okay. So why don't we just call it quits for now? Sure. We will continue episode two another time. Sounds good. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Great to have you. Pleasure to be here again. Yes.