 Hi Pamela. Hello, how are you? Pretty good. How are you doing? I'm barely standing. I thought I would be in a better shape today, but that is not the case. Well, you're wearing a few too many hats. Yeah, yeah. Hi Pamela. Hello. How are you? I was just saying to Marty that I'm barely standing. I thought I would be in better shape today, but you know, you think you're going to get things accomplished and other plans get in the way. Yeah. And sometimes you feel like you're struggling in vain and putting all your time and energy and effort and then you hear all these criticisms. So it's not easy. No, no. Please let us know, Pam, if there's anything we can do. As I told you, we can share with the minutes, taking minutes, and if you cannot find any support. Thank you. So I had planned. I thought that my timing was going to work out so that I would be able to get the minutes done. And you know, I think part of the delay is that if I do them right away, then they go really quickly. It's when there's been some time that passes, that means that they're, that I'm behind. So I actually got quite a few. Well, I wrote up the vast majority of the September minutes on Friday, but then I got called to do something else. And so I didn't have an opportunity to finish them. But my goal is to get this set done, you know, within the weekend. Right now it's looking like the week will have some time to do that. But you know, it's sort of interesting. All right, I see that well. Yeah. Yeah. So, so Guilford is here, but he doesn't have his camera on yet. So he might be finishing up a comment or so. And I don't think we have quorum. No, so it seems like yeah, yeah, you don't at the moment. And I did hear I know that Ian and Jim are scheduled to be joining us. And in fact, there's Ian, I'm going to bring him over to panelists. And I know that Cody is not able to join us. How about Myra? Myra, if you recall, was going to be out of town this for this meeting. And so your co chair is in charge of the meeting. All right. And there's, I'm going to just promote Jim to panelists as well. Because he should be coming over. Okay. So you should be at quorum. Yes. That's everyone. Okay, so that's everyone. And you are at quorum. You do have one attendee. Marty, do you have the agenda in front of you? No, I don't. Okay. See if I can get it. Okay. This setup is a little difficult. All right. I will I'll make an effort to do the same thing because I don't have it in front of me, but I know that I can get to it. And so I set up the the Zoom meeting so that you're being that it automatically records. So we are being recorded as we speak. And and then I just want to ask Ian and and Jim, if you received your email notification, did you receive Zoom invites at all? Not at all? I didn't. I looked through it. And I had to email you separately about it. Yeah. And Jim, same for you. You did not receive an email. I'm not sure what went wrong. You're muted. Jim, you're muted. There we go. Yeah. I do get the notices. It's an odd feature. I don't know if it's a Gmail feature, if it's Gmail on this Android phone. But what happens is that if there's a chain of emails, the earlier emails get swallowed up. And I can't retrieve them. That's the strangest thing. So if I'm smart, I'll usually immediately forward my Gmail to my other email address, or at least I have it uncontaminated, but I do get them. I do get them. All right. So the way that the Zoom is set up, you should receive the initial invite and then one day in advance, a second reminder, and then one hour, another reminder. So I'll, you know, I'm not the most tech savvy person. So it could be something on my end, but you should be getting those notices and we'll double check. So Marty, were you? I have gotten those in previous months, just not for this month. Yeah. I don't know what happened with that. And that's what I found, too. I didn't get, I got a notice from you, but I certainly didn't get the follow-ups yesterday or an hour ago. Okay. All right. And Marty, were you able to get the? No, I'm actually not. Okay. Here's, I don't have the agenda. All right. Okay. Sorry about that. Nope, that's all right. It'll take me a moment just to try to get the agenda. I believe it's been uploaded onto the town website. I got it through the, our website page. Yeah. And it is on the town website, but it was, it should have, they should have received it separately as well. So Asa, do you have a copy there that you could provide to me? It might be easier for you to just run off a copy. Yes. I can email it to you. One sec. Actually, if, rather than email, if you could just give me a printed copy, because I'll need to, about big or big. Sure. One moment. All right. Thank you. Strange thing. I'm getting all your emails. I know. And you, in the past, you were the person that was, that was not receiving the emails. So I'm getting everything. So I, I am going to, I know that Guilford was here in the participants. So I'm going to just see his name. Yeah. He's, he's here. That's fine. Thanks. Okay. And I think I just found the, the agenda. Yeah. All right. So if, if you'll, you have your agenda, I'll read the, the, the first part of it, and then just turn over everything to you. All right. So pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone, see the instructions below. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. This meeting is being recorded and we'll just do a simple, I'll ask the co-chair to do a simple row, roll call so that members of the disability access and advisory committee can acknowledge their presence and we can check on the sound. Okay. So Marty Smith, co-chair. All right. Saren. Yes. Elise. Here. Ian. Here. Jim. Here. I think that's, and then we have Guilford mooring and Asa Stanley Kemler. Are there any announcements? No announcements. At this point we have a general public comment period. Is there any public that would like to make a statement or panel? I take that as a no. No, you do have one member. All right. And I will allow bringing them to panelists now. Okay. Hi. Sorry. I've been hosting conferences. That's why it says research. Let me rename myself. Okay. Hi. Good morning. So I had emailed Myra about this just to let the disability access advisory committee know. I don't know whether she forwarded that to yet. I was emailing about the street lights policy which is still being considered by the town. The attack did receive an updated version of the policy from the sponsoring counselors, counselor Mandy Heneke and Anna Devlin-Gothir on Friday, Thursday. And I forwarded the information to Myra. One part of the proposal now is to include a task force that would look at in depth and then make some recommendations and develop a map about which parts of town should have more street lighting, which parts of town should have less street lighting. The proposed membership for the committee is to have seven voting members, one of whom would be from the disability access advisory committee. So I don't know whether anybody had reached out to you about that, but I thought I would let you know. There's also proposed to be a member from TAC and a member from the CONCOM and four members of the public, including people who have expertise in different related areas such as the health impact of lighting, transportation safety, and so on. So the sponsoring counselors and myself and Eve Vogel, all of whom have spent a lot of time thinking about the street lights policy, I mean, we had proposed a task force as a way to look comprehensively at where the lighting should be more and where the lighting should be less. And that task force would be charged with doing outreach on that and outreach to various stakeholders and having neighborhood meetings and so on to get input from everybody, because it is an issue that a lot of people care about. So that's one to provide that update. I mean, one option too is that I don't know how disability access advisory committee would feel about having a membership, but I know that for some of the people who are interested, there's also going to be outreach to them like for the senior center and so on, whether or not people are actually full members. The committee, the task force is slated to be formed in 2024. And I think like wrap up its work like a year or two later. So there's a bit of a commitment, I assume that they'll be meeting monthly or so. So thanks. So when would we need to give the task force a name? Well, it's called the street lights task force. Okay. As proposed. No, but I meant, when would the board need to submit a name for the board? So I believe it would be in 2024. Okay, so we've got a little bit of time. Yeah, no, you definitely have a lot of time. You definitely have time. It was more just like sort of a heads up and be like, Hey, you've been slated for this and just to let you know. And I mean, of course, it's very important to have like input from your committee as well as other stakeholders. So thanks. Yes. Well, thank you for telling us about it. That's very good. I won't ask if anyone wants to serve at this point. I think we need to think about who should be there and who wants to do it. And by then we may have a different makeup of the committee also. So who knows, but thank you. And also it's just proposed right now, right? So that the council would need to approve the idea of creating this task force. Okay. So I mean, if the disability access advisory committee has an opinion on that, like I would encourage you to put that forward. But I just seem like that's going to be the best way to go as opposed to the initial plan where the sponsoring counselors had come up with their own map without doing any of that outreach. So that was just important. I agree in this community without having some outreach, just going ahead with the policy would be pretty dangerous. Thank you, Tracy. I guess we're on to new business. This is, where's Guilford? We're looking for a status on the accessible pedestrian signals. Hi, Guilford. You're on. So we had the inventory done. The price is going to probably be very significant. So we actually have the ARV vendor who we use to buy equipment doing a price up for that. But we also have a proposed change in some of our controllers. So we're actually trying to work out the price with the new controllers as well. So, but the study is all done. It's not that, it's not, I mean, everything costs a lot of money now it seems. But it's not that bad of a, it's not that bad. I mean, it's a lot of buttons, a couple of control boxes, which actually if you do control boxes, you're doing controllers too. And they don't really talk about that in the study. So, but it's all done and we're just kind of putting prices together and seeing where we are with finances. So Guilford, what are we looking at as a budget? We haven't finished putting the numbers together, but what's left over in the, from the original $30,000 you had is about $20,000, but we're well beyond that in pieces and parts. Are we three times that? We don't know yet. They're still working on the price. Okay. I just, I just am more curious because I like to know what these kinds of prices are. That just helps me. Okay. What is the status of the North Common Handicap Parking at this point? So we had talked about doing that parking space after we finished the common renovations and then putting it over on the side with the bank. Bank? Yeah. So we had talked about doing. So how, if someone's going to Town Hall, where do they park? When the project will be over, they'll be. No, I mean right now during construction. During construction you park in the back of the parking lot, in the back behind Town Hall, in the parking lot behind the. At the non-accessible accessible space. That's the space that's the closest space right now. Yeah, it's non-accessible. Let's be truthful about it. It doesn't meet code by any. Then you're parking in Spring Street to the next closest space. Yeah. Okay. Marta, can I interrupt on this subject? Absolutely. Because I had to go to sign for my approval for this committee. And then I was able to find a place at the back of the Town Hall, as Guilford suggested. Yeah, it's kind of challenging coming from that alleyway when the cars are going, coming toward you when you're trying to get to the accessible entrance of the Town Hall. So I don't know what can be done. Maybe like some reminders, slow down for pedestrians or that kind of thing, whether it will have any impact or not. But it's okay. It's not impossible, but it is risky. Yeah, it's a non-compliant space because you have to have a path of travel and you don't have that. There's no path of travel from that parking space. A path of travel is not a driveway. It is a separate sidewalk or walkway or path. That doesn't exist. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. Well, we could do the UMass thing and just paint a walkway in the driveway. That may be the best thing to do. Although you're still in the driveway, which... I know. We don't do that anymore, by the way. Oh, you still have them. Oh, no. That's the path of travel from the space. That is actually in the code. You have them across lots and across driveways and alleyways. There's a few of them. I mean, we could do it. I don't mind doing it. Yeah, well, the problem is the paving so bad that it's going to make the paving look worse. We got to deal with that whole situation at some point. And how long do you expect this to last, Guilford? We should wrap up construction by June next year. That's not safe. And that's a place where we go for early voting too, right? The town hall. It is where you go for early voting. Yeah. And actually, you can't get from the Spring Street lot to the town hall either now. Yeah. You know, what would be a very good entrance to the town hall would be on that, on the, not the main street side, the other that opens to the Spring Street. There is, I think there are some steps you have to go. I don't know what could be done, but that will be a safe entrance to, even after the construction is all done. Because the construction, even on the construction, I don't know where the handicap places would be to have access to the town hall. And that will limit people going down that hill too. They'll be at the level. But then how do we get inside to the upper level? Whether I don't know what is out there right now, like lifts? Well, you can get, if you got into the, if you get, if you add access to the back door town hall, you go in the back door town hall and you can get to the elevator. And then you can go up and down. That's the employee entrance. It's a secure entrance. It's a secure entrance. Yeah, we've talked about that, about using that as the accessible entrance. And then you could put more accessible parking in the back, regrade that lot a little bit and be able to actually have an accessible entrance. But the quote unquote accessible entrance to town hall is not accessible. The grades are too great. Just even at that, at the door, you're over twice the grade it should be. It's not accessible. That's what you're talking about is on the main street, right? If you're temporary parking, 50 minute parking. Yeah, right there. That is so steep, you know, so purely. Well, not that, not the top part, but even down, once you get into that little area in front of the door, it's right rated incorrectly. That's right. That's right. But you take your life in your hands going down the sidewalk. That's right. Yeah. There's just no way to get there. There's no way to change the sidewalk grade really. Yeah, you can't. You'd have to, you'd have to change all of our main street. Maybe we should look into allowing people with disabilities to use the employee back door entrance if they, if it is accessible by elevator once you get in. I've made that recommendation. Yeah, I think maybe that might be a solution. But the town's got to decide to do it. Right. I know. But maybe we can request that make bring it up to the town to look into that, putting all the disadvantages that people with disabilities are facing right now and the danger of what is provided and also until next June, because that's where people can go to pay their taxes or if they have anything to do with the town clerk. So it's an important facility. And why should we say, well, we don't have an accessible site temporarily or forever? You know, that's not really acceptable. I think we should maybe really have the town consider this employee entrance for us to use. I don't know. There might be special permits. We might need to enter a special code or no. I think you are correct. So maybe we should have open it for discussions from all and then maybe take a vote on what to do or maybe we can wait until Mayra comes next week, next month. I think we should think about making a motion, a request to the town to reevaluate the use of the employee entrance for the public. And I don't know what it involves inside of the building. It might involve a little bit of construction to make sure that it's separated so that it's a public way rather than going directly into offices. I haven't been down there. It just goes into a big hallway. Oh, it does? Well, okay. Then that seems to be an administrative issue. Well, the issue back there is that no one's back there. There's no offices back there. There's various storage and mailroom, boiler room, staff lounges back there in IT. So there's not enough constant supervision that we had people who would come in and camp out in there at times. And that was the reason the door was locked. You now come in one of three doors which are kind of observed. Well, the one that opens accessible entrance, it's not really observed by anyone either. And every time I enter, I just, we just open the door and then push the button to go up or down, usually up, because down is only the bathroom, I think bathrooms, but I might be wrong. I never go that way. So there's really nobody watching who is entering the building or not. This is the one that opens to the mainstream. So I don't know. But I think it is really worth considering, because if this temporary construction is going to last until June, so I mean, I was able to take my chances and park behind and come through that narrow alley. And, but I was not alone. And it was daytime. Sharon, this issue is not going to change once this construction is completed. This issue has been a long standing issue that has never been dealt with. And I think the town should look at an electronic solution to this. It could be either a, it can either be cameras down there with someone and, which someone could see movement, or it could be a buzzer that goes to a central office that someone with a two way communication to let people in there. I mean, there's, there's a lot of creative solutions to that, to the security issue. So would you like to make a motion to request the town to Yes, seriously study this and provide a resolution for entrance? Yes. I would like, yeah, I would like to recommend the town to provide access through the door that's being used as employee entrance to provide access, safe access to people with disabilities trying to get into the town hall. Is there a second to that motion? I'll second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? So Gilbert, you have a study in your hands now. What? You have something in your hand now to look into that and see what. Oh, no, it's not mine. No. It's not my building. Yeah. Guilford's DPW. I don't think you get to. Oh, I see. It'll go to Jeremiah. Yeah. Just, just so you know though, the back parking lot is by far the closest way and the back door is, it's only 53 feet from the spaces in the back parking lot to the door. I agree. I think that'd be good. And even the existing, before we got rid of them, the existing Main Street parking lot spaces, they were 200 feet away from the door. Yeah, but you couldn't get into the building from those spaces. Well, I'm just telling you, I was just measuring distances. Yeah, I know. I've always felt the back entrance is the best way to go. I had that conversation months before. Okay. Next business is a status of accessible traffic signal repair. I'm not sure how that difference from the first item. We had a hand up a moment ago. Oh, we did. Oh, okay. Yes. Pardon me. I was just going to ask for a take of clarification. For the construction on the North Pleasant Street entrance, is that just to replace the stairs or will that entrance be made accessible? That's not my project either, but I'll answer. So the stair, the work on the, on the boltwood side of town hall is just replacing the stairs. There will be no accessible access on that side. Oh, yes, boltwood. All right. Thank you. Okay. And so I think that items one and three are the same. They were phrased differently on the last agenda and in the email that I received from my rent, which is why they appear differently. But I think it's the same issue. Yeah. I did too. I would add one comment if I could. Sure. So the South Pleasant and North Hampton Road intersection and actually the North Hampton Road University Drive intersection, which doesn't belong to the town. The North Hampton Road project upgraded those and put all the pieces and parts that are recommended and required. So if you want to go check those out, those two are what have everything they're supposed to have according to the state and they'll be turned over to, well, our intersection will be turned back over to us shortly. And the North Hampton or University Drive is still UMass or still MassDOT and that'll stay with them. But they're supposedly the two intersections that have everything. Okay. Thank you. Could I ask a couple of questions out of ignorance? Oh, sure. Okay. So bad question. Access issue, we're talking specifically about West Street 116 and Palmyroy Lane or someplace else. For what the study we did, we didn't do Palmyroy Lane 116 because the traffic light was taken out there. So that one wasn't done. But the RFBs that we bought for the Palmyroy 116 intersection are the ones that are the current code, which will do all the things they're supposed to do for all the current requirements for ADA. Okay. Now, my follow-up question to that, and I apologize because the group and Guilford may have already discussed this ad nauseam and it's already set and everything else. But the rotary that now exists at Triangle and East Pleasant, which replaced a traffic line, is there pedestrian access there at that rotary equipment for that? There are no RFBs there at that intersection at all. Okay. And so, I mean, the reason I ask that is that you've got the nutting apartments up East Pleasant a little ways. It used to be that folks there would often come down and go down East Pleasant and then hook up with North Pleasant to get into town by foot or wheels. And so, I don't know whether that's still an issue or whether that's just something that, no, it's not something that needs to be addressed. And I'm not trying to put you on the spot, Guilford. I'm just raising it as an issue out of, as I said, ignorance. I don't know. No one has actually made any complaints about the Triangle East Pleasant in a while. Okay. Okay. Okay. Are we... So, the next agenda item is mass DOT root nine curb cuts. And I'm not exactly sure what this refers to, but I was looking at them the other day and my robot brought up a very interesting issue, which I never heard of. And that is, and I'm Guilford, I'm sure you don't recognize this, because it's not in any code that I've ever seen. But Myra was saying that the truncated dome warning strips, that if you're blind, one of the things they do is they use the, avoid between the domes as a guide with the cane to direct them in the direction across to the right place across the street. Unfortunately, a lot of the new curb cuts that were put in, and they met code, obviously, have the truncated cone strips so that they go out, not in the direction of the path of travel. So, I'm not sure what this actually refers to, but I assume that's what Myra meant. Had you ever heard that, Guilford? I didn't know that people use them to line themselves up. Yeah, I guess they do. It's something, and I've been involved in locating many of those. I've never heard this before. So, and it's not addressed by any standards. No, because actually the ones we just put in are all correct. Yeah, I mean, they only code. It's just that you're going to end up in the middle of route nine, if you follow. I mean, the item on the agenda, I think, was put in when there was no accessibility through the construction site. That's what the item was about. But then, like, but now it's all done. So, all the accessibility is back in place. Yeah. I drove by the other day and it looks pretty good. I think they'll be striping probably this week, next week, and then hopefully they'll turn it over to MassDOT at that point. Okay. The next sort of business is the Munson Library Accessibility Improvement. Right. So, I did reach out to Chris, Bresnef, and to, I'm going to forget his name, Rob Wachella, because they came before the DAC to request support for the MOD grant to make the improvements in the Munson Library. That grant has been submitted, but they have not received a word of an award yet. So, Rob wasn't able to join us today, but they don't have any information to provide for an update. They're waiting to hear. Thank you. I guess I was by the New North Library Edition the other day, and that is looking very good. There's plenty of accessible parking right at the new entrance, and that's going to be a very nice addition to the town. Guilford, that site's looking good. Where is the roundabout going? Is it going behind the parking, north of the parking? Oh, we haven't decided that yet. Oh, really? No. Okay. I thought that was pretty well designed. For North Amherst? No. Oh, really? Okay. For some reason, I was under the impression that was starting soon. No. Okay. That's too bad. Okay. Old Business. We have a collaboration with the Northampton Disability Committee. Is there any information on that? I don't have any update on that. I have with that slip, but I will put it on my agenda for this week and keep you posted. Thank you. Appreciate that. Is there any other business? Well, I have something I'd like to bring up. Sure. A couple of days ago, I read in the paper of the plans that are made for the old golf course. I forgot what it is called. Hickory Ridge. Oh, Hickory Ridge. That's right. And that's one of the things that were being discussed were trails and accessible trails. So as usually happens, they are halfway done with the work until they come and get our ideas and approval review of the plans. If it is still in the planning stage, is there any way we could get more involved from the beginning of it? So that's why I thought to follow your attention. That's interesting. Where's Guilford? What's the status of Hickory Ridge? It's a playing department project. I don't know. I only know of one little piece of trail they're working on, which comes on the sewer property owned by the sewer department. And that's the only thing I know about it. Who's building it? Do you know? They haven't contracted it out yet. Oh, okay. Just the planning stage, I think. Okay. Well, then theoretically, they should bring it before us. Yeah. That makes sense. Kamala, do you want to follow up with planning on that, please? That would be very nice. Sure. I can reach out to the planning department. And Elise has her hand up. Oh, I'm sorry, Elise. Yeah. Speaking of accessible trails, which I keep seeing emails about and hearing word about, there's a really important thing that I don't understand. How does one with a disability get access to these trails if one doesn't drive? A lot of people with disabilities don't drive. That's a question I'm going to keep asking because I would love to use those trails. It's not accessible if you can't get to them. Yeah. So anyway, I just thought I'd put that out there. No, it's a very valid. That's part of accessibility to me. It's not accessible. You can't call it an accessible trail if it's not accessible to people. Yeah, if you can't get there. Yeah. That to me is not accessible. That's baloney. Anyway, I thought I'd put that out there. Thank you. Thank you. That's a very valid question. How does PVTA pair a transit handle that or do they just ignore any requests or how does that work or not? I don't know. They would schedule it in my experience using the PVTA events if you schedule a day before they can drop you any place. And so at that place we're talking about, they have lots of parking, lots of parking spaces there, but they were also thinking of shrinking the size of the parking there too. So maybe we should bring it up. If that is going to be a trail, they should provide enough parking for drop-off for PVTMS. So at least that is easily doable actually. If you can schedule. Yeah, I mean, you can't be spontaneous. You know, you have to really think about planning. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you don't really have that much control over when you go. Yeah, yeah. You know, to me, it's doable, but to me it's not satisfactory. And the pickups would be really problematic, I would think, because they're problematic already. And you don't want to be stuck. Exactly. In Green Ridge or some other place for, you know, at six o'clock at night. So pickups are hard because they don't predict, you know, they're unpredictable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was just going to say that this is all important information that the testimony that Cumberford and I can't remember who the representative is attached to it. But the testimony is happening tomorrow in the email that Pamela sent out. I saw that. I wish I were back at 1 p.m. And I think there's virtual access to it too. I can't go. Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah. So I would just say that I neglected to send that out earlier just because of the many things that are tugging at my sleeves, but you can provide written comments. So there is in the email information to provide written comments. So that's available to you. Thanks. Okay. Um, pardon me, but, um, Elise, what sort of solutions were you thinking of for the accessibility issue at Hickory Ridge? Like, are you thinking of like sidewalk extensions? No, I don't drive. I have a, I'm legally blind and use a guide dog and a cane. And so getting to any accessible trail, wherever it is, is not doable on foot unless it's very close to town. So, you know, and it's not just me. I'm sure there are other people who, you know, probably, I don't know. I don't have a solution. I really don't. I'm just thinking, wow, you know, it's not, it's not easy. You can't really get to them and use them, you know, unless you can find a buddy to go with. And that's not always easy. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Well, there's another thing that comes to my mind, Elise. Yeah. Amherst neighbors, I don't know whether you're a member or not. I am. Yeah, I could put that out there. They have lots of volunteer services, and they have lots of people interested in walking as well. So maybe you could get into their circle, because I get tons of emails, walking group meeting at this time, and they're trying to start a group. So maybe we should. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I've seen those emails and they meet at Maplewood Farm. How the hell do you get to Maplewood Farm? Right. I know, but they have a lot of ears who could maybe one of the people that participate in those, you know, you should just like it get like a group of you, I'm sure they'll be happy to assist because at least you are very able body. You know, you don't need a special transportation. You can just jump in anyone's car and go with them. If I take my dog. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I think there are probably, you know, individual solutions for certain folks, but I think Elise has really identified an important problem because Amherst invests a lot of money in his trail system. And how are people with disabilities? And we're talking about a broad range of disabilities here. How are they? Not just me, you know, it has to be somebody who's willing to take a service dog, you know, and not everybody wants to do that. But yeah, I like the suggestions about Amherst neighbors and paratransit. Those are those are good, you know, but it is true. It's true. It's not just me. I'm thinking it will one challenge. I think with what Jim just said about, you know, how would people get to the trails? And that's what you brought up at least is we cannot expect the town to have these trails downtown walking distance to people where maybe more people will be able to use the trails because of the logistics. Land is so expensive and you might not find these nature walks, you know, downtown. So it's practically like it's not feasible in my opinion. So we have to be, I mean, I'm okay with it spreading outside into outskirts. That's where nature is where you can walk and hear the birds and things like that, you know, that kind of a thing. And so we have to be, I mean, in my opinion, getting easy accommodations, PVTA, I think, is very good and friendly. And they would provide, I mean, whether whenever I use, you have to be flexible, you have to be plant, that's fine. But you know, that's life. So I know that I'm aware that I spent my whole life being flexible and waiting for buses depending on it's preaching to the choir. I'm just right. I understand. Yeah. And I think too, if the town is saying, yeah, we're going to have an accessible trail at Hickory Ridge, then while it's not incumbent on the town to provide transportation there to anybody who needs it, I think it is incumbent to cooperate with PVTA and, and, or find other resources to make it truly accessible. I mean, you know, it's, otherwise it's a bridge to nowhere, you know, you can't use it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was just going to add that, I mean, my understanding is that this is statewide legislation, so it's not just Amherst. So this would be an issue facing municipalities all over. So, and I think it's very important that we do raise this. And given that at least it sounds like you're, you're busy tomorrow, I'd be happy to write something up on behalf of the committee to submit in writing as written testimony. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. I'm running to three different places back to back. That's the problem. I'm not going to be home all day and evening. It's tomorrow. Otherwise. What time is it? It's at 1 PM. Yeah. 1 PM tomorrow. 1 PM. I just might be able to make it home by that time. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess maybe, I don't know if this would need a motion or not, but if I did write the thing between now and tomorrow to have the committee's signature on it, rather than just have it come from an individual. I think a motion would be good because it makes it official from the DAAC. All right. I guess, should I make that motion or does someone else need to make it? You can make it. All right. I'll make the motion that I will write a letter on our behalf to, or written, no letter. I'm making a motion on behalf of, to provide written testimony on behalf of the committee to, in support of this legislation, but raising the concern that getting to these public trails is a major accessibility issue in itself. That sounds good. I second that. I third it. All in favor? Great. I love that. All right. Any, any abstentions? Any nays? Then the motion passes. Thank you for doing that. Yes. Thank you for doing this, Ian. Thank you. Okay. I'll shut up now. You don't have to. You're enjoyable. Oh, thank you. It's just been a bee in my bonnet. Well, I don't blame you. I see you standing outside. I stopped the other, other day I was going to, I turned around and thought, oh, I'll go pick Elise up. And you, you'd already gotten on the bus by the time I got turned around. Oh, I spent half my life. Not that I don't appreciate the public transportation, but man, oh man, you know. Yeah. And then bad weather is awful. Yeah. So, I guess the next item is to approve the meeting minutes. So the first we'll do is approve the meeting minutes for August 2023. Are there any changes, corrections, comments? Hi, just for comments. Does anyone have any like questions, comments about the minutes for August 10th? It was, I did the minutes for that meeting and is my first time doing official minutes. So I just wanted to see if anyone had any comments. I briefly looked at them and they looked good. All right. Thank you. Good job. Yeah. Good job. Someone want to make a motion to accept or I'll make a motion to accept the August minutes has written. Seconds. All in favor. Thank you. Yes. All opposed? Then the ayes have it. Okay. And so I did not get an opportunity to finish the September minutes. So you'll get September and October together. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. May I ask a follow up to the August minutes, however, because we talked then about changing this group into a commission or whatever it is, sorry, beneficial, whatever. I just wanted to let the status of that was. So yeah. So at the last meeting, I believe that Myra had suggested that that that work on that effort be postponed until after the election until the new town council is in place. So that's where you are. Okay. Which would be when, Pamela? Go ahead, Marty. I was going to say it'll be in December at least. The elections in November. Oh, yeah. Right. I believe that her, I mean, certainly that next month when you speak with, when she's returned, you can have more conversation. But I believe that the conversation that she had with the liaison from the town council was that with the election going forward and all of the town councilors being up for reelection and the rest of their docket that it was probably wiser to wait until after the election of the new town council rather than to proceed with trying to get a decision made prior to the election. So I believe that was a rationale for waiting. That makes sense. And so then the council gets sworn in in December or something or how does that work? Maybe January. I'm not sure when this is wearing in. Yeah, I think that you won't have a new council until January. So is there any way we can put it in next month's agenda and maybe to discuss whether it makes sense to pursue it sooner than after the council, new council is sworn in and it will be maybe January or February. You know, that's how we lose lots of time. So this has been in discussion since I know George Ringali was a member of this committee. And that was one of the things he really pushed for it. And then we had what who was what was the name of the state person. Jeff Dugan came in and discussed about the pros and cons of those and there were actually no cons. You know, they were all in favor of all the things we discussed was improved. So maybe we should just try to see some action started rather than delay it. So maybe we yeah. So I will I am happy to add it to the November agenda and I just want to. So I think discussion about adding it to the November agenda is appropriate. However, because it was not listed on the agenda for today's meeting, we should limit the discussion to simply whether it's on the agenda or not. Yeah. Right. Any other new business? I have a question for the group and that is, has this group ever discussed a visit a visitability ordinance for the town of Amherst? This would involve new construction of homes so that all new homes would be minimally accessible to persons with mobility impairments. And some towns and cities have adopted this. Interesting. I don't recall that being discussed, Jim. I mean, we looked at some new constructions, but not as a building code at all. But I can get materials to people if if they're interested for discussion at some later date, or we could put it on the agenda for next month and then then go from there. I'm not exactly sure what the official approach should be. But in any event, I'm happy to share information about it. And it does help folks so that they can get in front doors and things like that. So is that for private construction? Yes. Really? What communities are doing that? I'd have to check. I apologize. I'd be really interested in knowing what communities have done it. Yeah, because that seems like a little overreach of private property laws. Well, but at the same time, we all when all of us who own private homes, any changes we make, we have to abide by local and state building code. So that really isn't in itself. It's not an issue. It's just a question of whether a town wants to put teeth into this particular approach. What about apartment buildings? Do they have that or is there a code for that? There is code for that. So okay, yeah. Right. I mean, I cannot see private single family homes. Yeah, there's code once you get to four units on a property. But anything under four units is not controlled. And that goes back to the private property issues. All right. And so again, I'm just going to suggest that we either place it on the agenda. But we need to limit discussion because it's not listed on as an agenda item for today's meeting. That's fine. That's good. It would be interesting, Jim, if you could give us a little bit more information so we can talk about it. How should I approach that? Who should I send that information to before the next meeting? Or do I wait until the next meeting? So send it to Pamela and then she'll disseminate it. The official way for the committee to communicate when we're not in session is through Pamela. And then she disseminates it to everybody. And that gets us in compliance with the open meeting laws. Yeah. I don't want to get you all into trouble. No, we don't want to get into trouble. No. We're following all the laws. Let's do that. So anything else before we adjourn? Okay. So I'm just going to say that for the next agenda under old business will have the collaboration with Northampton Disability Commission. And then for new business, the two items will be discussion of the mobility ordinance. And I guess also under old business would be moving from committee to commission as well. So those are the three items I have. Oh, and an update from Ian about the meeting tomorrow. That would be very good. Okay. Yep. I just put you in for you, Ian. Sorry for making you work. No worries. I'm not sure if I'll be able to attend the meeting itself, but I will submit the written testimony. Thank you. That was a really good discussion. I appreciate that. That's good. Yeah. Okay. Can I just say, Pamela, you rock. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone want to make a motion to adjourn? I still move. Okay. Second. Second that. Thank you, Ian. Everyone have a great month. You too. Good job filling in that chair. Can't care. Okay. All right. Bye. Bye.