 Hello everybody, welcome back to Esoteric Atlanta. Of course, my name is Bryce I'm here with Davey Jackson And I know we've already spoken in the live earlier today Although this will be airing on Saturday and you guys were super super excited because out of all the cults That we have talked about on this channel. We've talked about quite a few most of you including myself Probably feel most familiar with the cult the I BLP. So how are you doing today Davey? I'm great Thank you so much for having me on Bryce. I really appreciate it. Well, it's funny I started I saw you on the the channel cults to consciousness. She's fantastic by the way I will amazing channel. She covers a lot of Different and if you guys hear banging, I'm right in the middle of Atlanta, Georgia So it is what it is construction workers, but um, she's amazing So I will pull link her channel down there and I was walking my dog and I was almost in tears listening to you speak about your experiences and With something like the I BLP. It's so Refreshing to hear a man Company growing up as a young boy and going through adolescence and becoming a man Especially with a cult that's so abusive towards women To hear that perspective because in my opinion most people in cults aren't bad people I feel like cults manipulate the best parts of humanity the empathy the empathy the idealism And they manipulate that and so I would have to assume That there are a lot of men in these high-demand fundamentalist religions that actually don't see women as Their property even though that's does that make sense even though that's you know If you have sisters and moms and you're seeing women treated this way It's wild and I will say guys so before we get into Davey's story I just want to go ahead and show you guys Davey's channel He's a comedian a comedian as well. Oops. That's not the link. Hold on one second here He's a comedian as well and if you guys so make sure you're subscribed I watched all of your episodes after I saw you in cults to consciousness I went to your channel and your friend who's also name is Bryce. Yeah, exactly like mine Mine's my mother's maiden name. That's the thing we do it down here in the cell And so it's great guys. He has a very all if you guys like this interview today Please go over and subscribe and listen to all the I cannot wait to check out the cult mom one I saw that earlier and I also before we get into this too because I know I have people from all over the world watching right now Who are in my audience? What this is coming from is an Amazon documentary called shiny happy people know that is not a reference to the REM song It is about the IB LP Specifically really kind of got big because of what happened with Josh Dugger I know that a lot of my audience from other countries don't know who Josh Dugger is. He is a react They are reality the Duggers. They have many kids I watched it because it was fascinating to see children. I mean Michelle Dugger literally spent her whole adult life pregnant But he got in trouble for some horrific horrific stuff that was found on his computer Involving children and that's all I'll say on that and he is now serving a prison sentence for that And so that kind of opened up this Pandora's box of people really looking at the IB LP And so with that being said, I'm gonna pass it over to you Davey, what is the IB LP for our friends and family who don't know what that is? It's such a complex question because traditionally when when people think of cults, right? They think of Warren Jeffs out in Utah. They think of David Koresh in Waco, right? I BLP yeah, Scientology to the costume the characters. Yeah, that's exactly right, but I BLP is so different Because it's not a church. It's not a religion per se Bill Gothard the cult leader always characterized it as a ministry, right? And they they latched on to these these fundamental Christian ideals created a curriculum based around fundamentalism and then managed to Exploit thousands hundreds of thousands even millions of people all over the world with these fundamental ideologies basically holding people captive with a set of impossible rules And and and just I mean the the frustrating thing about I BLP is how they were able to stay under the radar for so long And I think they were able to do that because they weren't specifically a church You know, they're not they're not telling you Where you need to go to worship your God, right? They're basically just telling you how you need to live your lives And and that's it's such an interesting Departure from what we traditionally understand a cult is right and There's just so many people that suffered In this organization The you know, I've been calling it the shiny happy people cult on on the podcast series that I did The Institute and basic life principles advanced training Institute, which was their homeschool curriculum. They had compounds all over the world I mean, this was a massive massive group, right? But it was all run by this one guy Bill got there that rose to popularities He rose to popularity in the 60s and 70s Kind of I would say his heyday was in the 80s When you and I were kids when you were yeah, when we were babies. Yeah Managed to continue growing his empire through the 90s and even into the early 2000s and the early 2000s is really when it when it all started to fall apart It's interesting I told you in the email that as I said we were just talking about for anybody who's watching this because you're here for his interview And welcome to the channel, but I am I started about three years ago reading through the missing books of the Bible So it's curious. I just wanted what's this censored stuff? Like what are they hiding and it ended up with me like totally deconstructing the whole church and When I I I've watched the documentary again and was reminded of the Duggers and listening to the What Bill got there was saying I was like, oh, this is history repeating itself because this is literally if you do your own research I know that might trigger people and two things get to be true like the teachings of Yeshua or Jesus are good and The church is corrupt two things can be true here, right? If you go through all the last two centuries or whatever and you go through all these councils You see where narcissistic psychopathic men basically have manipulated and edited and changed these teachings in order to control Massive amounts of people and the biggest lesson that was really taken edited out The Bible was reincarnation and that was done Not the first council, but pretty soon into the Roman Empire when they had two popes and anyway They took reincarnation Yeshua Jesus taught reincarnation. He taught it to his Basically like they do in the East with Hinduism and Buddhism and you live again and your soul You know, you don't go to hell You just keep coming back and you learn things you refine yourself and the reason why they took it out was because they wanted to market people's vulnerability Right, they wanted to scare people and make them feel like their salvation was on the line and if you fuck up here You're not gonna have a good eternity and it seems like that's something Bill got third really marketed it as well from an outsider looking in Oh, yeah, absolutely. Bill got third's concepts his his teachings are not new, right? This goes way way way back. It starts really I mean We could go all the way back to ancient times, right? But his teachings come from fundamental Baptist theology, right? The women need to wear dresses. You're supposed to be absolutely submissive and subservient to men You shouldn't be dating purity culture, right? The purity culture was the biggest piece of of gothard's teachings and the I blp ministry You know and it wasn't just No, no sex before marriage, right? It was you shouldn't be dating at all. You should save your first kiss for marriage You should absolutely live under your parents authority and part of that is that you don't fraternize with the opposite sex and ultimately You're you're going to have a spouse that is Essentially chosen for you. I mean it wasn't strictly arranged marriage But really I mean about as close to it as you can get right the whole courtship concept I mean that was a huge part of I blp was was this this courtship mentality that was really popularized by a guy named Josh Harris Who wrote a whole book about it, you know, I kissed dating goodbye and then he wrote the follow-up book boy meets girl and it's all about his journey of Meeting, you know, his his partner, I guess Going through the courtship process and then getting married, but you know as so many other stories in Josh Harris the guy that wrote essentially the definitive book on modern courtship He ended up getting divorced. He was a pastor at the time. He disavowed his book He left his his pastor position and now I don't know if he's an atheist per se, but he's he's certainly agnostic You know and and this is really what living in these high pressure high demand high control environments do to you Absolutely, and that's one thing I really wanted to talk about too was the purity culture because that really really bothers me a lot as a 40 year old woman And I was saying my parents even though my parents would be classified as conservative Christians They were heathens compared to I mean my mother bought me my first bikini and she encouraged us to date Like I know what a sinner they listen I just learned this so I grew up Presbyterian and I learned my friend Angie who grew up Baptist According to the Baptist the Presbyterians were buck wild because we like to drink and I'm like, oh, yeah My parents did they can still out drink me to this day, but the Episcopalians they're called the Whiscopalians So they are really one to party But yeah, there is it for my guests who are my viewers who are watching that didn't grow up Christian You have Catholicism and your Protestant andism and with the Protestant faith it it like branches It goes so many different directions with the theology which is Wild to me like that it just branched off in so many different directions based off of like one person's teachings And so even though my parents were conservative Christian My sister and I were not raised to believe that we were subservient to You know that it what even though we're in the south and the man is like the head of the house It's still an equal partnership and that When we look at like I know what I'm wearing right now I would be considered probably a Jezebel wearing a tank top But I look back at my childhood and I think about like you are you were the same age So we were growing up at the same time and I think about like the boys I grew up with went to a small school We grew up together and we were wearing bathing suits around each other all throughout childhood I feel like when you are what tends to happen is when something is so forbidden It becomes even bigger than it should be does that make sense? Yeah, it becomes bigger than it should be and it becomes even more attractive. Yeah, right? You end up gravitating towards those things that are taboo In in the environment that you're raised in But but yeah, I mean there is a sliding scale as far as you know How liberal or conservative even within even within the cult that I grew up in there Was a bit of a sliding scale, right? You had folks that were head coverings and were completely isolated lived out in the country almost almost You know this this Mormon or Amish or you know fundamental Mormon Lifestyle, right? And then you had yet other folks like my family was a little bit more modernized I mean my my sister and my mom they they wore dresses, right? I Was not allowed to date with they were there were some very very strict rules in place But at the same time it wasn't so overbearing As as I observed with with other families So there there is this sliding scale But it's a good point that you make about Catholicism versus Protestantism, right? Because with with Catholicism, there's absolutely fundamental Catholics, right? And they take things very very seriously and then you kind of have the holiday Catholics that really only show up at church on On Easter and Christmas, right? Right. Yeah, and it's very similar within Protestantism But you you have all these splinter cells, I guess right all the different denominations And even then you've got levels of conservative versus liberal within those denominations So it really is just this crazy mishmash. Yeah, it's it's insane and it's really hard to keep up with My Jesus is better than your Jesus and I'm over here being like but none of you guys actually know the truth because you're reading a censored book Because it's all based on faith and that's really that's really what it boils down to any religion is based on faith So you don't ever have empirical evidence to prove what you believe is right or wrong, you know So it really just comes down to a matter of honestly preference and interpretation And that's that is a difficult concept for people especially that based their entire personality Or their entire life on what religion or set of religious principles they subscribe to 100% and I was saying with Claire Hadley from Scientology like I totally you can believe whatever you want to believe I don't care. You can I say all the time you can worship theories naked in your backyard It sounds like a good time. I'll be over there soon like but as long your rights Your religious rights in when they start to infringe on somebody else's happiness and somebody else's and that's where we get into trouble with some of these You know if you want to be a fundamentalist, that's great as long as you're not Disconnecting from your kids who don't want to be as long as you're not You know and you know from my I do have a faith in a god in a higher source And in my opinion this god this higher source is nothing but love and would never shun somebody I mean for Some of the things that these high controlled organizations do but so when you were born were your parents Did your parents grow up fundamentalist or was this something new for your journey? No, no not at all You know and I feel for the for the people that were born into This this cult or that are born into any kind of high controller high demand Organization right but I was not no the first Several years of my life all the way up until I was like 12 or 13 Uh, I think is is around the time period that my parents really started Aligning themselves with iblp and some of these fundamental Principles right but up until that point. I mean we were definitely conservative christian as a family But not even remotely close To to what we became What attracted your parents to the iblp, do you know I think the the same thing that attracted a ton of parents To iblp and that is just looking for answers Right, you look at the world around you and you're worried about your kids And you want to protect them you want them to be successful you want them to go to heaven Right that that's the ultimate goal for a parent if you truly love your children And you truly believe in in christian theology Well, the ultimate goal for them is to be successful while they're here on earth And then when they are no longer here on earth that they go to heaven, right? Those are the two things. Um, and so I think they were just looking for answers They were looking for solutions and here's this guy Um that that does conferences seminars all over the world Telling you hey, here's how to do that. Here's how to accomplish that. This is a proven method It's a proven program that has worked for thousands and thousands of other families And and all you need to do is is sign up Uh, and so when when they hear that and and a lot of what bill gothard says is good It sounds good Just sitting and listening to it. It's it's once it gets into practice and you start really digging into it That you realize oh this guy's a maniac, right? And so when you're in the seminar the basic seminar Which is what you introduced my parents, uh to iblp going to one of the basic seminars that they host at one of the mega churches in in texas Um, you know once they were introduced to those concepts. It sounded good Um, it really did and it sounded like it was going to give them the answers That they needed uh, and it was going to bring them into this community of people That were all working towards the same goal raise a godly family get your kids to heaven, right? And it's a protection, too I would assume to pretend i mean growing up in the the 80s and the 90s the world the world was changing so rapidly I mean i was laughing that i learned the dewy decimal system in high school You know and now we've got nobody knows that is anymore, you know So things were changing and i'm sure there was a panic to try to protect Your children and um, so were you homeschooled from the very beginning or did you go to like a regular school? And then you were pushed into homeschooling or did you homeschool with a what was the ati? Is that the Yeah, yeah, so ati is the homeschool curriculum. But yes, I I was I never went to a public school or private school for that matter Um, so for us it wasn't that much of a of a leap to go from okay, we're a homeschooling conservative christian family And now we're just going to make this slight transition into i blp Um, so my parents were already doing a lot of the things that i blp would want you to do Uh, the biggest difference was The the dress code type stuff and some of the more intense rules around dating and purity culture um, those were the two The purity culture and and the dress code were the two primary things that were a shift For my family right because my mom didn't wear dresses all the time Uh before we got into i blp And then all of a sudden Wearing dresses is that supposed to like be less sexy than pants like what's the point of of wearing dresses? Yes, it is a modesty play right, uh, which is so ridiculous if you really sit back and think about it Um, if i'm riding a bike wearing a dress and I fall off that bike What is going to what? What's the greater chance of exposure right wearing a dress or wearing pants riding a bike? Uh, so none of it made sense It was just a way to control and manipulate people That and that's what these rules were all about. I'm not going to brag or anything, but I have some sweatpants That make me look homeless And so I can tell you right now that and I love those things that my boyfriend's always like can you take those things? But don't listen you you can be modest wearing pants There are plenty of pants out there that you can wear that no one's going to touch you, you know Um, they're great for the grocery store. Um, but but yeah, I've always like what is you know watching 19 kids and counting and like The spectacle that's the only thing I can really think and I don't mean to like I'm sure all those kids are awesome human beings. I'm not trying to like it's not their fault But some of them Yeah, I looked I would watch the way they would dress and it just looks so uncomfortable even for the boys It was they they ran like a road race once in jeans Yeah I and that's you know when you grow up on the the normal side of whatever that means and you're wearing two pieces And bathing suits and sports bras I feel like the boys and the girls get desensitized Just to seeing other people's skin and so it doesn't become that big of a deal But you're right when it's so closed off it becomes like the forbidden fruit You know, it's um and so when you're used to seeing it. It's not that big of a deal And so here's the other thing that it does though, brice is if if you really think about it, right? If if you are in this isolated the sequestered family, right And you're not used to seeing anything Outside of what your parents approve Right, what it also does is it creates this environment for abuse within the family? And that's where it gets really scary and you know as as much as I despise josh douger And think he is just an incredibly evil person Is he In part a product of his environment, maybe You know because you have you have no experience or exposure outside of the isolation within your own family and so when You know when kids start experimenting when the hormones are kicking in and you don't have anyone else to talk to or experiment with It creates this It creates this perfect storm Absolutely And people end up getting hurt and I think that is just such an overlooked problem within these these fundamental Uh, christian organizations, uh, and and really not even within the organization more so within the family Right, if you're going to isolate your kids be prepared for What could potentially happen between Your kids Yeah, you bring up such a good point that I didn't even you know, I agree with you But you just brought up something that I it just hit me as you're saying that when you Grow up in a school environment where you're going to school. You're socializing with kids your own age You're on the playground. You're at the lockers talking as I'm thinking back throughout my life Yeah, you have the sex talk with your parents But you learn more about that with your friends Right You talk out with your friends and you start getting boyfriends and girlfriends and you're whispering about it You start to as you grow up you start to learn You know for the normal normal when you lose your virginity You're talking to your girlfriends about it and you're you know, there's there's a there's kind of a collective consciousness of growth That's happening within your peer group But when you're in a situation when that's not afforded to you That curiosity is natural and so it's got to go somewhere man versus nature nature is always going to win And so when you said that I just I just don't you didn't if you are growing up in a homeschool environment Where you're you're so shelter in place Where are the peers on a daily basis just to to talk to and to Learn with you know, that's so I kind of wanted to because I've heard your story about kind of the breaking point for you And it It makes me want to cry and laugh at the same time because from what I hear you saying it's such an innocent thing that you did That whole situation and I will say so I have to tell you my boyfriend had the exact same experience you did And I didn't know this we were out walking and I was talking we had just connected I was telling him But he was the other person the girl was in a very religious family And they found out so it was it was the girl so and he's 10 years older So he's in his 50s, but anyway, I'll let you tell it. So so you're going along you're going through you hit puberty you're a young man you're The only other kids you're seeing at your church, right? That's right. Yeah, and and thank goodness, you know because For for a while when we first joined the colt We were doing home church with a couple other families Right, and I think that's just such a poisonous toxic environment, too But we had we had moved out of this home church and my parents were we're going to a normal relatively modern mainstream church So here was this weird colt family in this relatively normal church And and it was it was a culture shock at first But kind of like you said now all of a sudden I've got I've got access to more information Different experiences my parents still wouldn't allow me to to be a part of the youth group or do sleepovers with with these heathens, right Anything I did church related was strictly supervised by my parents and once again, they were just trying to do the right thing Uh, you know, I don't blame my parents for for any of this stuff Um, you know because really my parents are incredibly good people and I've got a great relationship with my parents now Um, but at any rate so so we're going to this church and You know right around the time I started hitting 15 years old 16 years old I I get curious as as any normal teenager would right? Um, and there was this this girl that went to my church. She was the head cheerleader at her high school she was gorgeous I was absolutely infatuated and For some reason she was interested in me too this this weird a homeschool colt kid that always had his uh, his shirt tucked in Never, you know, never wore anything cool, right? She was she was interested in me And so so we start talking and and I explained to her that hey listen my family we do courtship I can't be your boyfriend because we have to court Right and she had no idea what was going on. We're we're two 15 16 year olds talking about You know if we're gonna date It we can't call it dating and also we have to be doing this with the goal of getting married It's just just wild, right? So so we're talking we're we're doing very innocent Boyfriend girlfriend stuff, right like we weren't sneaking off. We weren't running away We weren't doing anything. We would talk at church. We would talk on the phone But I had to keep this all extremely hidden From my parents because I knew It wouldn't be allowed. Uh, I knew they would forbid me from talking to her or ground me keep me home I'd be isolated more, you know, so, you know, I was absolutely this is, you know, first love Right at a high school age. So to me, this is the be all indole, right? This is normal. This is very normal Extremely normal. Yes. It's like quite innocent normal stuff. Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, so we we continued You know dating if you even want to call it that because we never really went on a date Because I wasn't allowed to do that We continued talking Uh for, you know, a few months and then ultimately my parents found out about it My mom, I believe realized that I was talking to her on the phone Uh, I didn't have a cell phone Cell phones were absolutely a thing at that point in time, but I wasn't allowed to have a cell phone So she somehow figured out that that I was communicating with with this girl And I mean everything just blew up at that point, right? Um My my parents realized that that I've got a girlfriend. I'm violating purity culture I'm violating the rules of of the cult everything that I've been taught Just by having this girlfriend, right and um, you know, they were extremely concerned They didn't really I don't think they really knew what to do at that point I think they were just so worried that their son Who who knows better who's been taught better Is is violating every rule Uh, that that they've been Teaching for the past, you know at that point four or five years Um, and so control They've absolutely lost control and the the thing that was told to me and during this period of time that that always has stuck with me is You're on the path to hell They were they were desperately afraid at this point right Because you know now my fate my my faith is in jeopardy my salvation is in jeopardy at this point It and I just want to reiterate this It's not like you were a pimp No, you were a literal 15 year old kid doing what And here's my mama like you should be dating lots of people get to know all the boys So you know what you want in the future, you know, that's the difference. Um It's it's not this is this is loudly like what you were doing is cute and innocent and just what happens in high school And it was a church girl. It wasn't like he met her at the bowling alley, which is But you better in church Yeah, exactly and and that's that's the thing that That is tough to convey to someone who who doesn't really understand fundamental religions and purity culture, right how dangerous That type of belief system truly is because yeah, it's it's not like I was out there Drinking and doing drugs at that point. I mean I I'd I'd experimented at that point, but nothing nothing serious at all half it's 15 exactly So, you know, it's it's just it's just such a A The rules ultimately if you try to Force someone to conform to conform to these extremely rigid and quite honestly ridiculous rules You're destined to mess up at some point What's almost like they're setting and that's that's what a narcissist or a psychopath does is they set you up to fail You know and you are you are doing man versus nature And and my whole thing is like well if you believe in a god a creator god Then this is what is supposed to happen Because it was your natural biological instincts Exactly and they're being held to this impossible standard And I think you're right. It is intentional. It is a control tactic because now that you've messed up We can we can make you feel this overwhelming sense of guilt and fear Uh and control you even more And I don't think that was my parents intentions. I think they were really just Trying to adhere to this set of rules that the colt had set up because I found out You know having a conversation with another colt mom that raised her kids Uh in the iblp program. They were required to sign all these contracts Apparently there were a bunch of rules that were sent to parents They had to read through this and agree to all of it and and essentially sign away their lives Uh and there were even family coordinators that would visit visit homes To make sure that you were obeying and following the rules as a family unit, which is just I mean, it's just insane So again, I I really don't blame my parents for a lot of this They were just trying to do the best that they could they were victims too Absolutely in in any colt scenario, right or any high Control organization you've got predators and prey Um and in this colt in iblp There were a lot of predators, but there were so many more people who were just prey Uh, and I think my parents absolutely fall into that category So anyway, they find out. Oh, no. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead I was going to say even the education system like I've looked at some of the worksheets And I want to make this clear There are some really good homeschooling programs out there and I absolutely understand why people are homeschooling their kids nowadays It's a freaking like shit show out there, but I get that so I'm not saying that about homeschooling at all They're awesome programs out there, but this particular program It's also setting the kids up to not to actually need the colt when they grow up because there's no You know, I always feel like I'm not a parent. I'm an aunt, but I'm not a parent I always feel like if I were a parent my job is to make sure my children are able to go out on their own They're able to have be productive members of society and have confidence and know how to do things and you look at these workbooks and it's like What it's just so it creates this cycle of dependence upon this little community And you really are stuck you can't it's hard. I would imagine it'd be really hard to break away But we'll go back you you you got in trouble and so your parents like sent you to like a Um What was it they sent you to because I don't even know how it's yeah Sounds like jail but this is one of the the craziest parts about this colt, right? I mean and once again, let's let's compare traditionally understood colts to what iblp was in most traditional Colts that's such a weird phrase, right? But uh, they they typically have a compound and everyone lives at the compound That wasn't the case with iblp every every colt family had their own Place of residence, right? You weren't required to to all move to you know, southern utah or anything crazy like that But the colt did have compounds all over the world um at the height of it I believe there was something like 40 to 50 maybe even 60 compounds that that operated all over the world um And so one of the compounds that the the colt ran Uh was in indianapolis indiana The indianapolis training center they called their compounds training centers Uh because that's that's much less nefarious sounding. So uh, that's that's the compound that I went to um and The indianapolis training center is notorious for being extremely Uh controlling it's almost run like a prison So while some of the other compounds there were they were a little more lighthearted. There was a little bit more You know freedom Indianapolis was essentially where you sent all the the problem people Uh, and so that's where I ended up uh after my parents found out that I had a girlfriend And I went there specifically for you know, the easiest way to describe it is a behavioral rehab program Because you had a girlfriend at 15, right? Yeah, exactly. Uh, I needed to be I needed to be reprogrammed Because clearly I wasn't following the courtship rule. So there was something wrong with me Um, so so I go to this thing and here's the crazy thing about the program that I was a part of the the name of the program was life focus All right, and life focus uh was established by you know, some guys that uh had been a part of the colt's paramilitary program Uh that that they operated out of big sandy, texas called alert the air land emergency resource team So these were essentially want to be military guys, uh that wanted to help young men Uh rediscover their Passion for following the rules. I guess It's very culty. This is actually a lot of like Scientology has the sea org Like a lot of these cults have like a milit if you watch wild wild west the yoga kind of cold They kind of developed a bit of it It's very aggressive It is it's so weird now there. I will say their paramilitary program was um pretty mild Just in terms of they they didn't get any combat training at all Uh, they never had weapons. They just did tons and tons of push-ups went on these crazy long hikes Uh and had to memorize entire books of the bible Uh, so it was basically it was basically christian boot camp for homeschool special forces. That's how I always describe it Uh, that was alert. I mean these guys were You develop more of a superiority complex than anything else just just being in this this paramilitary program Right, but you also left with a chip on your shoulder Uh, and you know the guys that started the live focus program that that's exactly That's exactly how they operated. I mean they just they wanted to Establish a program that could break the rebellious students like myself But they were also partnered with the city of indianapolis and this is this is the the thing that kind of blew my mind They were partnered with the city of indianapolis And they also had a legitimate juvenile delinquency aspect To this program So i'm this innocent 16 year old kid who had never really experienced anything I go to this live focus program and and i'm hanging out with guys that were legitimate criminals Still my age. I mean they were still underage guys Uh, but I mean there was there was a guy in there that had been arrested for for you know grand theft auto Um larceny breaking and entering. I mean all this crazy stuff that I had Zero exposure to and now all of a sudden i'm thrown into this very isolated, uh high controlled group Alongside these guys that I just don't have anything in common with did they know that you were grouped with people who were stealing cars and Oh, oh wait my parents. Yeah that I don't know about that I'm honestly not sure I think that this program was pitched to parents more so as Send your kids here and and will help them follow the rules again Because I I'm sure many parents would probably be a little bit like wait what my kid who just got a girlfriend is Bunking with the kid who stole a car The two are not the same Not even remotely, um But it was it was interesting for me because now all of a sudden I'm starting to experience different cultures different lifestyles that I had No association with previously. Um, and and it kind of started making me realize like Well, wait, do I really want to to operate in in this, uh You know super conservative christian mentality anymore or is there maybe some other interesting stuff out there that that I'd like to experience So it gave you a view so there was a silver lining there where there was some good that was coming out of it to give you a viewpoint into other Other people out there that maybe aren't as bad as as um The outside world is painted to be yeah, absolutely How long have you lasted this like rehabilitation center? So I was there Interestingly enough brice. I've I've blocked a lot of it out Uh Just because of you know, some of the experiences that we had there I I think I was there for a total of six to seven weeks Um, that's a long time when you're experiencing abuse Yes, yeah, um and especially when when some of that time is spent in in isolation of you know You know in well actual solitary confinement, uh because that's Talk about that for a second because I heard you speak about this and I was like I would have probably ended my I I don't know how you survive that It was it was What is their isolation? What what is that? What happens and what got you to the point where they put you in isolation? That well, that's the that's the really interesting part about all of this. Um The the program like I said was designed to break rebellious boys, right? Um, that's what they wanted to do. Um, and so they would essentially saddle you with all this this work Bible memorization I mean date they woke you up early. You went to bed late and you were working the entire time So from six or seven a.m. To nine or ten p.m. At night You wake up working you go to sleep working, right? Um, and they they just wanted to Supposedly break you down so they could build you back up, right? And if you weren't breaking under the stress and pressure of All of this hard labor this manual labor that they were forcing to do forcing you to do They would try to do it psychologically as well. Um, I got interrogated multiple times Uh, they would intercept your mail and interrogate you about your mail Um, you know, I was getting letters apparently from the the girl that I had been dating Uh, they were intercepting those letters and then sending them to my parents not allowing me to read them But interrogating me about whether I was still in communication with uh, my girlfriend Um, you know, so so that's kind of how it started Um, I at some point While I was in this program and they were interrogating me About my girlfriend and telling me, you know, she hasn't tried to reach out to you. She doesn't care. Um You know, why are you still holding on to this, right? At some point I got upset thinking that oh wow, she really did abandon me Um, and there were other women that that were at this this compound in indiapolis Um, and I started fraternizing with with some of these women and that was a huge No, no completely against the rules. Um, and that's ultimately what what got me sent to solitary confinement Is fraternization with members of the opposite sex Which again, that's so normal. So they put you into I to solitary confinement. What is this like for you? Yeah, this what is your day like? What is your environment like in this? Confinement so the the important thing to remember about these these compounds is most of them were converted hotels, right? So they they would be they they would buy these Or city would donate to the cult And they would convert these hotels into training centers or compounds, right? And so you just imagine a small hotel room Right, uh with a bathroom a bed and a bible and that's it. That's what you had So, uh, they would they would send you into this room Um, you would know that you were going to the prayer room is what it was called That was their name for their solitary confinement quarters was a prayer room Uh, you would know that you were going to the prayer room. Um, and They would escort you to these rooms You'd go inside and you would not have any indication of how long you were going to be in there. Um, there were windows, but um Um, you know, you could you could look outside the window Um, but other than that there there was no contact with the outside and Except for when they brought you your meals So a bed was you didn't know now No, I knew it was day and night and and that's about it and you know When you're 16 years old and you're locked up in one of these rooms At some point you you lose track of time. You don't know how many days have gone by and Psychosis starts to set into absolutely. Absolutely. Um, you know, I um The the the only the only contact I I had with With another person is when they they brought me our one meal per day Um, so they'd feed us once per day. Um, and and that was that was all the outside contact you got And you know being in there for seven days. It's it's so interesting because Even in prison They let you out of solitary confinement for an hour at a time You know for for exercise We we didn't get we didn't even get that. I mean granted We had this window that we could look out of and and kind of see the outside world a little bit, but Even that was limited, you know, there was bars on the windows and um, they had them mostly covered up, but um, You know seven days in in this room by myself I I had a lot of time to to think um, and one of the things that that I realized while I was in there is that I just I didn't Um, I didn't know what I truly believed Uh about my own faith, uh about the rules that that I had adhered to for so many years of my life um You know, so it was an awful experience It's Feeling that isolation feeling that desperation at times Um, you know at one point I was I was so desperate to get out of there. I I kicked the uh, I kicked the Little ac unit. They had a window ac unit. Um, and I kicked it out Uh, so I could try to maybe you know escape through a window But I ended up deciding not to do that That you know, I I knew I would just get I knew I would get caught And I knew they would put me right back in and who knows how long I would be in at that point. It's kind of like the Uh the escape prisoner mentality, right? um, you know, so I had a lot of time to think while I was in there, but it was it was such a traumatic experience at 16 years old Um being locked in this room Um with no one to talk to Not knowing how long you're going to be in there that that once I got out it was um Um It really was survival at that point like okay. I'm not locked in solitary confinement anymore I just I just need to do whatever I can so I don't get sent back And there were guys that were in there as well that I knew um, there was there was one poor guy that was locked in one of these rooms for 30 days I mean That poor that poor dude. I don't We are these people now they suffered. I mean, I was going to ask you later on about like PTSD and like CPTSD and any types of anxiety disorders people You know, obviously that's going to really affect your psyche as a human being if you if you have a soul if you have an essence You're going to be affected by that and 30. I mean, I can't As you're sitting there because I spent a lot of time in india and a lot of people will go on like these Meditation retreats where they remove themselves But they're doing it by choice and and they have free range to walk around the outside They can eat whenever they want, you know, and you're right I rescue dogs in india and bring them and we only bring them to the united states and canada because all the other countries Require quarantine and we won't put a dog in quarantine because it messes with their head, you know, we won't do that So why are you going to do it to a human child? That's just I I don't I I mean I understand why they were doing it because once again The goal was to break us, right? Yeah, and you know, you you lock a 16 year old in an empty room And give him no contact with the outside world like he'll he'll he'll obey pretty quick You know, uh, they'll break and and do whatever you tell him to um, I I mean that that's pretty um I mean, I did it, you know, I as soon as I got out. I was just like I'm just gonna listen Follow obey the rules because I just I don't want to go back there Play the game to get down. Well, I think about that. Yeah, I'm like How could anybody not be? I mean bless his heart like I I You just want to hug if I if I knew it. I I mean This is a child abuse Absolutely There's a there's a story and this wasn't the life-focused program that that I was in it was a um It was a couple classes later Uh, but there was a guy that was he was he was locked in the prayer room I don't know how long he was in there for but he got so desperate that he smashed a window Uh, took a piece of glass ran up on top of the indianapolis training center. His His plan was to jump Um, he ended up just hurting Himself with the glass instead Uh, because security had already, you know, kind of Got ahold of him apparently. Um, but I mean this is this is the kind of psychological damage That that sort of punishment can do to a person. Uh, I mean It's it's just crazy and and Bill gothard iblp that i'm aware of has never admitted they've never admitted that they actually did this stuff Of course not. No No, that's um like any good narcissist. I mean, I don't And I want to bring this up too for people, you know Bill gothard created this like umbrella system with you know The father is in charge the mother than the kids and god and pastor above but was bill gothard ever married No, never had kids was never married Supposedly and according to a public statement that that he released after he was exposed for several scandals Um, he even said in this press release. I've never kissed a girl Bullshit more than that If you guys well Yeah, we know for a fact that's not accurate. Yeah, yeah I mean, that's what's wild to me is like this guy is claiming to be like The god guru of how to raise your family and he's never even had a fucking child like And I just I mean I I would have to imagine That there were people working in these training centers that probably felt a lot of guilt when they locked a child into these rooms I would have to imagine that there were parents that are people that were like, this is this is not okay. Yeah 30 days So but for you with that seven days you had it's almost sounds like you I believe kids are kind of born with a moral compass like you see when I watch my nieces and nephews when they're little You know, they they seem to kind of develop and they start to understand other people and you can see this like natural More I mean they say, you know, if you need religion to know right from wrong, you don't need religion You need morals Because most people understand empathy from a very young age and then we go through these indoctrinations where we start to like Not trust ourselves anymore and we start to like follow But it sounds like for you you had a moment In sanskrit it'll be like a praziva like a flash of illumination Where you started to almost refine your own your own personal Sovereignty within your own moral compass and you decided i'm gonna play the game and then i'm gonna get out Yes, I know what happened Absolute that that's exactly what happened Um, and it was that that moment of recognition sitting there in isolation Right realizing I don't I don't know what I believe. I don't know who I am. There's no way. This is right Uh, what's being done to me right now? Um, I shouldn't feel this way um, if this is If this is operating in god's will then I don't want to be in it You know, um, and so Once I once I got out of solitary confinement. I was I was at the compound for a couple more weeks after that I actually got injured while I was at the compound. Um, I my foot was broken Yeah, and um, not not uh, you know, I I was Let's just call it rough housing with with some other people and my foot got broken And so that was that was one of the things that allowed me to I think transition out potentially But I I had a one-on-one meeting with with bill gofford around that time Um, and he wanted to you know, kind of interrogate me and find out if I had been fraternizing with with you know women or females at at the training center and um, you know, obviously I I wasn't going to implicate anyone else So I I denied everything he I know he didn't believe me and I I know that he knew something was was going on Um, but he decided at that time that I didn't need to be at the indianapolis training center anymore And from what I understand, uh, he recommended to my parents that I go off to what uh, the cult calls a log cabin program Which is very similar to the wilderness programs I don't know if you're familiar with those the the troubled teens. Yeah breeze. I've formed schools Stuff where they talk about yeah. Yeah. Yeah So he was recommending that Basically, you just go off into the woods with a mentor and you are isolated from everything Uh out in the woods Which you know, my parents thank god, uh decided that was not the right solution for me Um, so I got I got sent home around that time And um when I when I got home I I already knew that I didn't want to be in this cult anymore, but again I was only 16 years old um I I I want my family to stay intact and so emancipating to me wasn't a viable option So I decided at that point, you know, I'm gonna stick it out for another couple years And then once I once I'm 18, there's really no one that can tell me what I can and can't do anymore Uh, and so that's what I did for the next two years. Just kind of bided my time Um, and and once again, you know, my my parents are are great people I I have amazing siblings. Um, and so It I didn't have that I didn't have a bad life Um, it was just still, you know, following in a lot of these rules and making sure I stayed out of trouble Uh, but around that time when I when I got back from from Indianapolis, that is when I started, you know, experimenting a little bit more And then once I got out of the cult at 18, I I really started experimenting Um with you know alcohol and other substances Um, and and I think At first at first it was just I want to experience different stuff Right. I've been sheltered and isolated for so long Let's let's see what all this is about Right. I I want to have experiences that I see other people having, you know, my cousin He he's been going to, you know, high school parties since he was 14 years old. He seems to be having a good time. No one's none of them are getting hurt Um, so why can't I experience some of the same stuff? And so that that's when I started experimenting and at first it was it was just kind of uh Out of curiosity, um But then once I once I got into that a little bit deeper It did start becoming a coping mechanism for me and it it stayed that way for the next You know 10 years I mean, that's I yeah, and that's logical. I would I don't think anybody I've heard you talk about you Quit cold turkey, which is unbelievable. Um, but with yourself without any help. I mean, that's amazing But that's so I mean the amount of trauma I would I would assume and I'm not a therapist But I would assume you probably do have complex post-traumatic stress disorder cpt sd Um, which a lot of kids who go through abuse. I was diagnosed with it when I was in my early 30s I went through trauma therapy, you know, I'm I'm sure that there are signs of of anxiety disorders And that's not your fault and in I I get on this channel. We get a little little woo-woo sometimes and um I read a lot of other like channelings from other, you know Galactics or whatever and multiple different channelings. They say that they don't judge humans for alcoholism or drug addiction Because being on this planet is hard And you got to do makes me emotional. You got to do what you got to do In order to maintain in that time period. And so you should not so anybody watching right now do not judge yourself So what when you decided to come here? This is a hard place to live and when you got people like I believe and I must say this is my opinion. I don't know bill gother. I think he's a psychopath I mean, that's just my opinion because what man Would do that what what human being would do this to other human beings And this is not the teachings of yashua. I'm just going to say that right away. This is not what he taught Listen, he would be hanging out at the bar with you if you There's a book called the magdalene manuscripts and in the missing books of the bible It's very apparent they were married like they had five kids. They were married But in the magdalene manuscript, um, they talk about their sex life before marriage so Kiss that purity culture goodbye They were enjoying each other. Let's just put they loved each other. Let's just put it that way You know, I just want to add These in these imperfections that we have as human beings If you look at the eastern philosophy all the things that you struggle with in your life your your shadow side This is what makes you perfectly imperfect And this is how you refine yourself and so to shame people for being human I mean, that's what I love about early 20s. Your early 20s are your dipshit years Um, right at 40 you can't make the mistakes at 40 you made at 20. It's not cute anymore, right? But it's You know It's it's part of you you came here to human you didn't come here To be the best accountant you can be or to be You know the best little bill gothers soldier you can be you came here to beat davie You came here whoever's watching you came here to be this have this experience And that includes understanding your senses and understanding love what whatever capacity that is for you And I just I hope that as we start to evolve as humans these High controlled groups get exposed more so that people know what to look for because psychopaths aren't going away They're going to stay here. They're going to be here and and I just um I mean, it's horrific and I will say I know do you have a little extra time? I know we're coming up over an hour now. I don't want to keep you longer than than you Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've got a few more minutes. Yeah, absolutely And I hope you will come back. So now we're gonna have a lot of people that are gonna have questions So much more. I mean, it's just fascinating to me, but I think about like these like I you know growing up. I said my parents were very, you know Liberal compared to to most even though they were conservative christians We went to church every sunday my mom knows the bible forwards and backwards, but they were very secular as well When I was 12, we got a you a temporary youth director and he was the coolest guy ever His name was robber. I don't think he mentioned Jesus once like we would go hang out He would order pizza and we would just sit and talk. We would talk about music We would talk a secular music, you know, it was just I think he kind of figured these kids know who Jesus is like You know, they're 12 And then we got this new youth director in after that and he became very controlling And I look back on that and I remember being in like it was the year like alana's morcette came out blues travelers and I had all the cds And I remember him saying in a youth group once if you own these cds Then you're disobeying god or because these people are he then so I went home And I got all my cds and a bride and the kids in the throne away and my mom stopped me And she said what are you doing? And I said well, I won't say his name But he said that if I have these and my mom was like that's ridiculous She was like you find joy out of this And where there's joy, there's god Take go put those back in your room that you like don't let him don't let him You know tell you what to do and I went to a private school And so when we got to high school and mice the kids who went to my school Once we were in high school We couldn't do like Wednesday nights because we had to be at school And he did this big sermon once about how we were gonna these private school kids We're going to go to hell because we weren't coming on Wednesday nights Wow, we had picked school over the church And my mother was like god is not the church Yes in our family god comes first, but god isn't the church My responsibility is to make sure you have an education So you're and I thank god that my parents kind of stopped a lot of that because I can see when you're young and impressionable I can see how that would easily you would easily be swayed into Because it kind of sounds like he kind of had the same. I don't know if he was following gothard But he kind of had the same control You know, and so I I just want people to how easy it can happen How easy especially when you're a child and you don't have a lot of control And and that's why I think this shiny happy people for a lot of people like myself We see we're this is the closest to what out of all the cults This is the closest to our own backyard and And it does and it's how quickly you could just slip into into that and that into that control And I have to ask you like with your sister or any of your brothers and sisters still involved or have they all No, no, no, uh, uh Yeah, you know, um interestingly interestingly enough after I left the cult when I was 18 uh My my parents decided that they were done with it as well about a year later um, and so the family the entire family separated from iblp um, and that would have been boy that would have been um I guess right around 2001 2002 uh And it was just a uh, you know a few years later that some of the scandals started coming out Uh, and then 2014 is when is when the the hammer really dropped Yeah, so so they they got out of the cult. Uh, so fortunately my my two younger siblings They didn't really have to experience a lot of the really hard line rules that I did And so I'm really grateful for that that that they were able to have Um, a more normalized adolescence, right and they they didn't have to They didn't have to conform quite as quite as much as as I did And you know, like I said, we we've all got great relationships now and and I'm so grateful for that um, but uh, you know, it's it's interesting you're talking about this this fundamental christian ideology you if I think people need to start recognizing That it's not any one of the individual rules Uh that create this environment that is Just perfect for abuse and exploitation, right? I see people saying well, I would I would never do Do what they did to kids, right as far as punishing their children, um, you know This is severely right. I would never do that. I was like, okay. Well, maybe you wouldn't do that But the physical part of the trauma was not even the worst of it for me. Anyway, it was the mental and emotional trauma That was so much worse So you can't say that you want to be a fundamental christian or have those fundamental christian ideologies And and just discard certain parts and think that it's going to be okay at that point. It's not It's not the the entire basis Uh for this extremely conservative Fundamental environment is going to wind up hurting people every single time Because you cannot separate the two No, and and as you're saying that I'm sitting here thinking like jesus wasn't even a fundamentalist You know, you know No, you know, this is not coming from any type of of um love or any type of it's coming from control for man And even with the women, this is jimmy. We people judge anna dugger and I I haven't I've always kind of had a soft spot for her because She doesn't know that she can leave. She doesn't know That she wasn't raised with with even though she's put her children in danger. I get that but she is a victim Of of this system as well and I have to ask you davie. I know you don't you don't have kids do you? No, no, thank goodness You had a daughter If you had a daughter how would and you see the way women are treated How would that how do you think that would affect you as a man? I don't think about like seeing these girls treated like their prize cattle You know, they're supposed to be just sold off and you're right when you see these they make the courtship look cute On like 19 kids in county But it was always creepy to me like the wedding episodes always kind of creeped me out a little bit Like I felt really weird watching them awkwardly kiss at the like it was weird It was like it felt like even though sex wasn't a part of the cult It was like the main focus of the cult and a lot. Absolutely. Yes a hundred thousand But they became obsessed with what they couldn't have yeah It was so awkward like their wedding up It would I would cringe watching it because it was it made now like how are these parents like gawking and staring at This is weird. Like this is fucking weird, you know So so I I think the courting thing is And I think about my boyfriends in high school and my first few years of college and I'm like damn I'm really glad I was not like sold off to them because They were cute at the time but Not now not not what I'm you know, you you evolve and you change in your 20s and you You know, your brain's not even done developing until what like 25 Oh, I don't know about that at all. I don't think mine's done developing still. Uh, I think I think it's like I think I read that the cognitive brain like It's like 23 to 25 is when it's totally stops developing So you're not making good choices at 18 anyway because the brain isn't fully able to um And of course at 18 you got a bunch of hormones anyway And you know, I know that are more fertile at that time. And so it there's this I don't it's it's and then what And in purity culture here, here's the other issue with it, right? You're so Like you said hormonal at that point that you are desperate and you're willing to do just about anything Uh to satisfy your your biological urges at that point and you're confused that with love Exactly When it's not necessarily the same thing and you need those it's just desperate Yeah, you need those dipshit years to figure that out to have those wild nights where you go That wasn't such a good idea. He was cute, but I'm not going to do that again. You need those those oopsies those mistakes in order to then have a healthier look at a relationship and um, and yeah, so with my boyfriend, I was he was he was the girl in your situation where he actually um He's one of his good friends. He wasn't living in miami at the time one of his good friends guy friend They were part of a very conservative christian Baptist background and so my boyfriend would go to his friend's house and his sister and my boyfriend Started to like date and they were on the phone with each other and they got caught and she got in trouble and It was very innocent. It was very innocent But when I was retelling him yours kind of your story, he was like, oh my god The same thing happened to me, you know, that's wild. He was on the receiving end was on the receipt Well, his parents are cool. His parents were like they probably called his parents They're like, whatever he was the youngest of three You know where he was at the time You know, but yeah, he was he was on the receiving end of that So he even had a so you see how these The these teachings affect a lot of people especially in the united states It's even if it's not just in your life It's in your peripheral vision where you're seeing like his situation or you're seeing kids that Yeah, we had we would see the homeschool kids in my town that would wear the prairie dresses on the hot summer days And you know, um, it had the shirts tucked in and and you know And so there is there it's and you just feel empathy for them not having that freedom and that liberation and You know, I just I just hope that I would really want people to understand that god is and I understand why people who when When a religion or a group uses god as a weapon I can understand how people would want to be atheists like I don't I don't blame you at all like that Is totally you need to heal and I think that god the source creator consciousness would totally understand But I want it's like no god isn't man This is not something that one person can can own right? This is an understanding that we all have in our own ways And as long as you're not hurting anybody else You celebrate that the way you feel like you should celebrate that that's what that's what you're you're only you're not here for very long Um, and again those missing books of the bible man I will say I found a lot of channels on youtube of x pastors Who decided to read the missing books of the bible and became x pastors because they read those books and were like holy shit Yeah, I I mean I've I've done I've done a little bit of research on that stuff too I'm by no means an expert, but the bottom line is no one has a monopoly on god um And so a lot of people want to think that they do and they want to think that their Interpretation of the bible and their set of religious principles are the be all end all the absolute truth Right, but the bottom line is no one has that No, are nor are they supposed to and anyone that claims they do I mean that's your first flag that they're a liar. Yeah um You know and and as far as as far as how women in in this cult were were treated. I mean It's infuriating. It's infuriating to see how You know They were marginalized Um, they were made to feel less than In in so many different ways not just not just in terms of their role in the family Uh, but also the value of their potential contribution their ideas their their thoughts their opinions um You know women were You know, I had some rough experiences Growing up in iblp, but every time I've come across a woman um who maybe grew up in the same environment or Had some some similar experiences. It's just always 10 times worse um because They they were just they were viewed as objects and possessions Yeah, um and and unfortunately I think that is all too common in these types of fundamental religious organizations um where You know women serve their biological purpose Their job is to be submissive And supportive and all but worship Uh the men in the family And that's not just the the the daughters. That's that's the wives and mothers too Um, and it's just it's awful to see and it's It's um It's gross. It's really gross. That's what it is. Yeah, it's um I I've heard some stories of from other people and it's it is it's it's horrific And I will say in this when I was saying in the beginning Like if you do a deep dive into all the different denominations Actually, if anybody's new and is interested there's a book called return to divine sofia And she goes through a couple of chapters where she goes outlines everything of what happened with all these And uh john wellesley, I believe who was the creator of the methodist church with methodists are usually pretty late back now But he was quoted as an paraphrasing That when a woman when a woman is past her prime meaning when she's gone through menopause and can't bear children anymore Then she should be taken out back and put down And that's from the methodist. That's that that was you know, whatever john wellesley So so this this idea and the crazy thing and I want to reiterate this again in case there's anybody coming out Magdalene Which that was she wasn't mary magdalene. She was just magdalene She was a force and she was very much a part of of his teachings. I don't even want to say ministries his Yahshua's teachings And she he and the missing books of the bible he had 70 disciples Most of whom were women And there was one scene from the gospel or of the nazarene way Um, which I cried my way through where he's giving a lecture And there's a woman sitting there listening to him and her sister keeps hitting her saying We got to go make food for the men and he stops the sister and says no She's supposed to be here She needs to be here listening. She doesn't need to be cooking And so this is the man this these are the real teachings of this man who's had his teachings manipulated for 2000 years In order to control and to hurt people And so I really would encourage anybody coming out of any fundamentalist faith that's I know a lot of my viewers have left the church that Um, there's a whole other teaching out there that they've censored for a reason guys Like the censored stuff is usually the fun stuff like they've censored it for a reason And so just have that curious mind. It's aerosol that said it's a sign of an intelligent mind when you can entertain an idea without accepting it So just because you're reading these books is I mean you have to accept it Just read them and just see what they have to say and I promise you If you just read it and start thinking about it It's going to challenge some of what you've been taught but it's going to open up a whole world of love And acceptance and who gives a shit just just be a good person and love each other And um, and I would hope that that people would find that liberation that freedom because that mental prison of thinking that trauma of thinking that somehow You're going to burn in hell or somehow you are not acceptable to the entity that created you You know the same the same entity that created the rocky mountains created you too So you're a badass and you're powerful and these psychopaths have to manipulate that empathetic Moralistic part of you in order to gain that control And so I just hope that people find that liberation understand that No human being has the right to tell you where your soul is going after you die That's not up to any other human being that is between you and your own belief system And um, and yeah, I know where I know where I could talk to you all day. This is just so fascinating Will you come back davey? I know I'm asking you on the Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. I'd love to I'd love to do a follow-up and talk a little bit more because There there's just so much to unpack aside from just the cult, you know just general religious principles and and how people grow up with this misinformation and conflicting ideologies And just end up a a confused mess Yes, and I and I will say I because there's so much. Yeah, I I'm gonna say too Um, did you guys ever use the word yaoi for god and and iblp? No, no, we weren't uh We weren't earthy crunchy like that. I think that's more like the organic Uh, type of cult. Yeah in the missing books of the old testament guys. Yaoi is the name of a demon Really moloch. Yeah, that's the name of moloch the priest of yaoi I don't want it's the missing books of moses. So is jojoba jojoba is the name of a demon as well So I I just had to say that because love I know a lot of fundamentals like these other names. I'm like, you need to actually research Where these I think it's the intention of your heart that matters, but But you know, like I love yaoi. I'm like that was moloch If they were like giving child sacrifices and burning them like I don't know, you know If that's the right if that's the right person that you're talking about So that's why it's so fascinating to really just dig in and do the research It doesn't change the fact that they're and again two things get to be true Two things can be true. There can be a loving god and there can be a corrupt religion And all fronts and I'm not talking about just christianity. I'm talking about all religions and every man's involved It gets fucked up. You know, so so um, you you just got to do you and go back to the the source and um This my friend shanti in south africa. She always says the it's the drama the story is just the drama It doesn't matter what matters is how you're feeling inside as a human being the story is just the drama So anyway, davie, um anything else you want to end with before we have you come back on No, just thank you so much For for this conversation. I think it was uh, it was enlightening for me. I hope it was it was helpful for your viewers um, but I think The the the primary message that that I like to make sure people understand is that your your past does not define Your trauma is not your identity. Um, and and there's still time to to change the narrative Absolutely, absolutely as long as you're breathing You're still living and just enjoy this experience 100 percent. Well, once again guys before we sign off I want to again remind you if you have not seen this documentary or if you thought this documentary was about the The r.m. The band because of their song. I've had that comment a few times. It's not it's about the iblp the duggers It's incredible. I do want to talk to you too. I want to get into like how this is affecting politics Because that was wild to me when I saw that section. I was like, holy shit. That's crazy Um, go and watch you guys and please please please subscribe to davie's channel I've watched a lot of your shorts now too. You're so fucking funny and I love a good sense My teachers in india say that a sense of humor is like the pinnacle of spirituality If you can laugh at yourself and laugh at life, then you've got it. You're good, you know Nice and you look at something I feel like a shaman right now. This is amazing Yeah, so you guys please I'm actually once we get off and this evening. I'm gonna actually I can't wait to watch this I saw that you posted that up and I was like, I can't wait to watch it to see this perspective because it's just fascinating Human beings are fascinating and I will put all of davie's links down in the description box below as well guys And a link to the shiny happy people so you don't have to go searching You can just hit that link and go right to his page. So thank you so much, davie Thank you brice really appreciate it until you're from brice. I said hello. I'm gonna tell a guy brice the girl brice said hi But thank you. I really appreciate it and uh, um, you know, I I hope that I hope this is helpful for people. That's the main thing Absolutely. We're all as rom dawg says we're all just walking each other home. We're all in this So all right guys, we'll talk to you later. Bye everybody