 First time on the Cube, baby. Rock and roll. I think it's probably five or six times I've been on the Cube now. You know, at first, the guys are just fun to work with. Pat, welcome back. Hey, always a pleasure to be on the Cube. Hey, I'm about to go on the Cube. You never know what's going to happen. I'm a three-time veteran of being on the Cube. I hope many, many more. Chad Sackets, Chad, welcome to the Cube. Dave, John, it's great to be here, man. I keep coming back because great, insightful questions from John and from Dave. What face-melting action have you seen here at the event? And I know there's a lot of it. It's a great vehicle to communicate with a broad audience. A lot of folks watch. Great to have you back. Good job. All right, Craig Nunez, VP of Marketing at HPStore. Thanks very much for coming on the Cube. When people mention the Cube, they're like, oh, my God, I saw you on the Cube. And they're all excited about it. It's an experience. It's not just information. They experience kind of what's going on there. It's like real-time. It's like they were there. That was like going to the gym. Legendary IBMer, CEO of Symantec, and now CEO of Virtual Instrument. Great to have you on the Cube. So for Cube to be here at a conference like this, it's got 15,000, 20,000 people and sharing that live around the world, that's consistent with the way the world is evolving. So it's a wonderful medium, wonderful medium. John and Dave are amazing. I don't know how they keep everything in their heads the way they do. It's a great format. And we're obviously seeing that this notion of real-time coverage and a real conversation is what's driving us as a company. And I said very seriously when the questions and the comments that we hear from them and from all the different guests here are directly turned into the products that we build. Yeah, that was my first Cube. And I really enjoyed it. There was the rapid fire of questions. It made me think on my feet. But they were very thought-provoking and really got me going on analyzing the greatness of Rista and the greatness of the Cube as well. John and Dave, the reason their approach works, they're not just guys, you know, reading down the question list, right? Okay, next one, next one. It's a conversation, right? And they're going to challenge you. They're not going to settle for the marketing hype and the BS and all that stuff that the industry throws around. Come on, you got to hit them up on the HP question. There's an HP, some turmoil at the top. Obviously controversy. They're going to hold you down to the real facts, compare you to the choices our users have and have you respond to it on the spot, right? Thinking real time. And so that's real talk, not just kind of a paper interview. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE.com and I'm here with Dave Vellante. We are inside the Cube. The Cube is our flagship telecast. We have events, extract all the signal from the noise and share that with you. And great guest lineups. We've got CEOs, CTOs, all the top executives, bloggers, thought leaders, venture capitalists. I'm absolutely stunned. Why? Because I know it demands 100% attention for these guys to be up there talking to people about a wide variety of technology topics. I can't believe these guys can make it so many days in a row. So I'm wondering how long they're going to go home and pass out for after this. But it was incredible. They just do a fantastic job. If you're not having a conversation, then you're very scripted. And if you're scripted, then you might be getting the right words, but you're often not getting the whole meaning and the whole depth of the conversation to the fullest extent. I think this is a heck of a lot more authentic. It comes straight from the heart and the brain. Sometimes you might forget to make some of your points if you're not a real-time thinker. But I think from both from a participation and from a consuming point of view, it's much more real. It holds no punches. So I've been on theCUBE a number of times. And I think the interesting thing about being in that particular venue and that format, they introduced me as, hey, Hough doesn't pull punches. Well, they don't either, right? They ask really difficult, uncomfortable questions sometimes. And you can tell people and the positions and where they are in terms of what they're able or desire us to speak of. You can tell where they are on that borderline between just honestly answering questions and just kind of glossing over them. And I enjoy being there because I don't want to say I'm outspoken, but I honestly answer questions with the full intent of being able to be respectful to the people that I bring solutions to, right? If I whitewash this crap, you're going to turn me off every single time you see me on any venue let alone theCUBE. So I like being asked tough questions. I like answering them honestly. And that's a fantastic venue for doing it. Otherwise, you get on panels and you get a bunch of talk and this was my first time on theCUBE and I really got a chance to get to know John and David and they're really amazing guys. I mean, the knowledge that they come with, the topics that they could talk about, the people that they know and just bringing it all together in this live broadcasting forum is just fantastic. I just love it. I feel like a groupie or something, you know? In this environment, you know, the social environment, where we're in, right, people look through the marketing fluff very quickly and if it's not authentic, right, you know, they don't trust it anymore. So in this environment, I think it's a growing trend. Yeah. theCUBE is this conceptual box, if you will, and we bring people inside of theCUBE and then we share ideas, but those ideas don't stay inside theCUBE. We explode that idea. We allow that idea to grow and grow and it does. So we really try to own the whole enterprise technology space. I mean, that's what we're all about. We take analysis, we take publishing, we take news and we take live TV and we combine it together in a product and share that with our community. No one's doing what we're doing. What we're doing, in my opinion, is the future of media, the future of television, the future of the internet. Video is an amazing, powerful product. In what John and I talk about is a data model. People always say to us, well, how do you guys make money? We sell knowledge, we sell information, we sell data. So the problem that we identified is about what we call big, fast, total data. Anybody can analyze a gigabyte of data. If you do 1,000 gigabytes, that's a terabyte of data. You take 1,000 terabytes, that's a petabyte of data. 1,000 petabytes, that's a zeta byte of data. So you are talking big data, lots and lots of data and you analyze it in real time as it comes in, right? The Cube is like, we call ESPN of tech, because we want to cover technology like ESPN covers sports. John has a great vision for what's going to happen next in tech. And so John is sort of that alter ego of mine that lets me see the future. That's Michael Sean Wright, Mark Hopkins, you know, we've got Kim here today. We've got a team of people on our news desk run by Kristen Nicole. So she has a team that helped feed us the news of the day, what's happening, the analysis. We have a team of analysts, they feed us information about what's happening. And then, really importantly, we have a community, a big community of many hundreds of contributors. We love technology, we love the innovation, and that's what we do. We want to create a great user experience. And in order to do that properly, you got to really, really prepare. The Cube for the past year that we've been in operation has been very, very successful. And companies do pay us to come here. I think companies who bring us in with the Cube get two things. They get a third party independent resource to provide knowledge to their audience who are seeking it, this demand for the product. And also compliments their existing media. We're here at an event and the company has their own TV organization, and they have to pay a premium for that. So we compliment that by offering a objective, organic, third party independent analysis of the event. That's why the top executives come in here. The Cube is a comfortable place. It's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world. And we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer. My entire career has been really built on relationships and talking to people and extracting knowledge from people, largely in a belly to belly private form. What the Cube does is it explodes that to a huge audience. We've reached millions with the Cube and it's real time, it's live TV so you've got to be quick on your feet, but you learn very fast and then you iterate from that learning. So John and I play off of that and we're constantly trying to up our game. Founders, SiliconANGLE.com, SiliconANGLE.tv and we're here live in San Francisco, California at the Node Summit which is the first inaugural conference celebrating the rapid development and success of a technology called Node.js and we're here on the ground with the Cube our flagship telecast, we're going to broadcast here all the content and knowledge from the people here in the trenches as a developer crowd and we're going to share that with you out on the internet. So thanks for watching, you can continue to watch on SiliconANGLE.tv and for all the coverage, SiliconANGLE.com and I'm excited to talk about this environment because we are going to be launching a new publication called DevOpsANGLE where we're going to explore in-depth the impact of developers with the cloud and within mobile. So we're here in San Francisco to cover the Node Summit where all the emerging companies are really, really powering with this new technology Joyant got funded for $85 million yesterday massive excitement kind of a movement from a developer standpoint so we're excited to hear and I'm here with my co-host today who's going to be roaming the floors, getting guests to the folks, Alex Williams, the editor of SiliconANGLE.com's Enterprise and Vertical Publications of ServicesANGLE and now DevOpsANGLE Alex you are a prolific writer, obviously SiliconANGLE now, read, write web, you've been around the block you live in Portland, you've been covering the tech scene for a while tell us what you're seeing and how it feels to you right now in terms of what is Node Summit obviously we'll go deep dive into this with the developers but what's the vibe and what's the scene like, explain to the folks here this is really kind of a defining time right now especially when you think about some of the big trends that we're seeing the platform as a service I think is a major trend and we're actually inside talking about it right now and so with platform as a service we see lots of ability to do cross-platform stuff like we had not been able to do before and that's a big deal where you can develop in that manner without really the need for an operating system that's going to have a big impact on things so I think people are pretty excited too about Node.js and just its capabilities and the ability to work with people who are proficient in JavaScript and be able to then start to really build on Node.js for the folks out there who we're watching, whether you're a geek a developer or someone in the tech business Node.js really is about a fundamental development environment that takes advantage of the web and to me Alex, I think this is like a Web 2.0 moment where the reality of the web kind of Web 2.0 all the promise of Web 2.0 which some of it really hasn't been realized some have and some hasn't but Node really represents that Web next generation technology leveraging the browser Node was built on top of Google's V8 virtual machine which powers Chrome and all the stuff going on with Android and among other things to oversimplify it but in reality this is about the web and the web we all typed in URLs HTTP colon slash slash that is the fundamental transport protocol for the web so web technologies have been around apps are being written but for the first time a development framework like JavaScript which developers help that front end the websites etc can now be deployed on the back end as they say so the back end is servers the back end is networking so this is really a fundamental shift from a development standpoint that opens the doors for rapid development scalability some things we've never seen before so we're going to explore that here at Node Summit we're going to ask all the questions we're going to ask the gurus what are the most successful sites that are using it what are the developers finding successful not successful so Node.js represents a fundamental change in the development and the scripting environment which has been predominant on the web and allowed us to have that great web experience now it's going to the next level so we're going to monitor this there's a lot of tech talk we're going to be engaged in so it's going to be exciting the event is not being streamed live so we're going to be having the live coverage we're going to have the candidates that come off the stage but you're getting some tweets from Clint Finley who's out in the crowd what's the update from Clint? Clint actually just got through the cross platform discussion and some interesting things there by Ryan Dahl for instance he made the point that Ruby hasn't been ported to Windows and that has hurt their community which I think is an interesting time for people in the Ruby community and I think that's illustrated about that the other thing about Node that people are talking about is the fact that it simplifies the abstractions of code the dependency of these back end technologies like TCP IP and other server related environments and the question is and for the developer community it's pretty known that Python and Ruby on Rails has been a very successful environment for developers so the question that comes up is Node over Ruby and and Python so we're going to explore that and so there's a debate amongst the developer community and that's good for us because we want to explore that and we'll do a deep dive on that it's still really early too these are really really early days that's what we're hearing right now in the discussion about platform as a service which is going on right now even though Heroku has a million apps that really isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things I think we're seeing just a huge scaling in apps across developer communities who are just able to build apps like you're saying very very very quickly and this is just the beginning of it so we also want to share with you some news that SiliconANGLE.com broke that I wrote this morning EMC Ventures out here in the west coast Mark Lewis has left EMC I confirmed that last night that is breaking news on SiliconANGLE.com and really as I wrote in my post following EMC obviously for many many years at least from my standpoint I've been following Mark Lewis's career from afar I've gotten to know him personally and found out just last night that he's leaving EMC Ventures and stepping down and Mark Lewis is one of those operating executives who's been in the business he's in his late 40s he's close to my age and knows the computer business he's an operator but really he's known for really having that strategic vision and really part of the EMC transformation and what's interesting is Pat Gelsinger who's a CUBE alum many times has been taking over for him so Pat is obviously from Intel Intel's had a very great successful venture capital practice he's tied with Paul Moritz we've always called it the Intel wind-tail model for the cloud is VMware EMC so EMC has been very successful with their venture capital group they've had huge successes just recently with Silver Springs Networks which has filed their S1 to go public and 85 million dollar financing which EMC was involved in so just those two deals alone most recently will make EMC a lot of money but more importantly Mark Lewis was part of that early transformation and turning that storage company around into a powerhouse that it is and he's been one of the key guys part of the whole bringing VMware to Jotucci at the right time which from an acquisition standpoint was probably the best bargain ever in the history of the computer business so in my mind probably with the two best acquisitions in technology history in terms of value to the companies obviously YouTube was 1.5 billion looks ridiculous now compared to what they're doing with Google but at the time it seemed huge VMware half a billion dollars so Mark Lewis is leaving EMC I got some of my sources to confirm that this is not the end of EMC Ventures but just the beginning they've done a good job of just staying in business the team is staying intact just that Pat Gelsinger is taking over for it I mean that legacy lives on even here at the Node Summit VMware is here in force they're talking Cloud Foundry quite a bit and VMware I think is a really interesting company to watch in the whole platform space they are a hybrid provider and we reported on the Accenture Technology report that was published yesterday and in it they talk about platformers and primarily they talk about hybrids and they say that the hybrid platforms are really the ones that will that's when they recommend for the CIOs and so I think that really shows where VMware is right now they're moving up the stack they want to compete with Microsoft and they know that Cloud Foundry is the core part of that we want to welcome the Justin.TV viewers who are watching thanks for joining with us now and if you're a young developer young person into gaming go to Justin.TV they have all the best gaming content out there and if you're young and you're a hacker I think you're going to love Node.js Node.js has a huge success with hackers now there's some technical reasons why that isn't we're going to try to get the founder of Node.js Ryan Dallon but essentially it allows for non-blocking event-based programming some people think that's a flaw some people think that's a good thing so we're going to explore that but if you're a hacker they love this stuff so I've talked to a few hackers last night and they've been telling me that Node just totally accelerates their ability to code so there will be a debate we'll break that down and we're going to talk about it if you want to ask us questions to dig the answers for you here at the cube here at the event the cube and we'll answer for you so that's great and we'll look for those questions any update from Clint? Clint is inside again the general theme is around platform as a service and really where it is right now I'm looking at Twitter here seeing what people are talking about Ryan Dall is saying to be a big platform you have to be on Windows what else do we have here we have people talking about how pass will how pass will eclipse infrastructure as a service and that's an interesting discussion there infrastructure really is becoming just you know the machinery that you need underneath the surface and platform is what really let's bring in Jason Hoffman who's the CTO co-founder of Joyin if you want to come in come on in here grab a seat move over can you swing in there okay let's make sure we get a good camera on him why don't you sit next to John is that good? yeah it's good right in the middle okay we have the keynote speaker and essentially the head honcho for why this event is so popular Jason Hoffman is the CTO co-founder of Joyin you did welcome to the cube I was swinging by that used to the potty nice to end up in the cube instead this is what we do at the cube we talk to the smartest people and try to share their knowledge with you and share it to the world this guy right here very successful smart guy knows the business great first time in the cube so he's among many luminaries like Pat Gelsinger Joe Tucci, Michael Capellis some luminaries and we have students we have developers so welcome to the cube and so you guys are ultra successful obviously the news yesterday was a massive funding a series E for the people who know what that means but 85 million dollars in funding you guys really don't need the money from the sources that we talk to doesn't hurt to have money in the bank and it's a validation to your mission and where you guys have come from so just tell us the joyin story for the folks who don't know it out there from where you guys are today but where you've come from and what's happened just in these past short three years and kind of the massive surge of app developers also we all know about the iPhone so share with us the joyin story and kind of the dynamics in the marketplace well I mean you know joyin we're an 8 year old company you know we started really to do you know modern infrastructure for people and we typically call ourselves an infrastructure system software company and we also happen to run a pretty large service ourselves oddly enough I think we're not only sort of the second largest infrastructure service provider after Amazon right now but we're also like the oldest surviving one I think the only thing that was around before us was the Sun Grid and you know even AWS basically launched after that you know a lot of the sort of years of 2006, 2007, 2008 for the company was really around a lot of rapidly scaling startups based in the San Francisco area we did a lot of infrastructure for people like Twitter and you know Facebook's third party you know applications and so on like that and the last couple years it's just been going global and working with a lot more what you'd call sort of enterprises and governments and so on just doing infrastructure infrastructure well I want to say congratulations as an entrepreneur it's a great thing to see someone build a business stay in business, grow a business and be where the puck comes to you and the thermal growth takes you up so the question I have is what are you seeing with Node Node Summit obviously it's an inaugural event here it kind of represents a new shift right now we're seeing from a developer community standpoint you know hackers love Node we're seeing real commercial deployments emerging at a scale point that traditionally was interesting right you had to be a C programmer to do all some back end work obviously that skill set is the most coveted skill set that quote back end engineer who knows CSS or front end so Node seems to be kind of a mix of both that easy to program environment share with the folks why Node and why is this event so important I think we lucked out with a couple things one if we look at the general trends that are going on around application development there are ones where most applications are speaking HTTP so there really isn't these enterprise applications or large scale applications doing something other than web we also have seen sort of the breakdown of traditional client server type applications into a paradigm you'd really sort of call like real time data synced peers and so you know instead of having a client on a phone and a server on the back end you basically have a server here and a server there and these guys are actually passing messages between one another and so the other sort of trend that pops out as a result of that is we basically see message passing essentially popping up as the way that one does concurrency and those types of things and that makes sense because that's how we predominantly communicate as humans anyway which is we write on post-it notes and to have the back ends and front ends of applications uniformly do that as well becomes a very natural way to write applications and then what's really driving this though on the back end is we see for example over the last you know two years if we take iPhones, Android phones and iPads and we decide that we're going to call them PCs they're 50% of the PC market I mean you know Apple shipping 200 million iPhones this year alone so what you're saying is is all this messaging stuff going on these apps that are out there taking advantage of these new quick bursty and or lightweight but important data sets that are going around I talked with Jonathan at Facebook who was running their operation he now stepped down he's doing pursuing other things this dev operational role is known among the elite folks like Twitter, Facebook they merge development and operations we're launching devopsangle.com a new section this week here at Node Summit and we have been covering and talking about now we're going to have a publication around it this notion of systems programming in the old days when I went to school systems were you know monolithic boxes and or operating systems and that was you know on servers now you're talking essentially about a modern operating system that's in a data center that's decoupled is that a big trend I would say that what the world's basically heading towards now is a world of devices where the network functions as a backplane and some of those devices are the size of a data center some of those devices are the size of a phone some look like an airplane, some look like a car, some look like a refrigerator that were really sort of sitting there and essentially shipping 20 to 40 CPUs per person on the planet per year typically in some device of some type and beginning to start building the world in that way that basically you know the node and node.js comes with the concept that everything's a node and as we start thinking around everything being a node from a data center to a phone and so on how do we have a nice uniform platform layer on top of that that allows us to build new types of applications and we have to build new types of applications because traditional frameworks and run times typically are not connection intensive they're not good at moving a lot of data those types of things and it's not that they're just not good they're like 10,000 times bad at it and so the idea that doing something as simple as trying to be a mobile carrier and have real-time tracking of all of the say phones on your network that shouldn't require 200,000 servers to do one application San Francisco is obviously the home of a lot of revolutions and rebellion and radicals and you know people talk about it it's a great place and innovation comes here you guys have had a lot of success I was in this dev ops and the web internet and cloud if you will public cloud everyone had to find it doing a lot of emerging things at the same time a lot of people run their businesses that you're experienced with but the average joe IT guys and when I say average I mean big IT shops they don't really have that experience so could you talk about two things one what are some of the challenges that it has with this notion of really leveraging the cloud and cloud storage and network stuff that we just talked about this new operating environment new operating system maybe I want to talk about it and then what's the roadmap for them how do they get from hey we know we have to change but how do I do dev ops what does it mean to me well it depends I mean for some people it's not going to matter you know where it is popping up in say enterprise traditional enterprise IT much more commonly and in a lot of ways you can actually think of cloud providers is actually typically servicing developers and enterprises it couldn't be serviced by enterprise IT that's one phenomena you know but the other thing that's sort of happening is the typical enterprise application you know is usually used by five people between the hours of nine to five and now all of a sudden that same application has to provide real-time data to a field sales force of 12,000 people on their mobile devices and so when you sort of sit around and you go to these you know platinum advisory council blah blah blah type things where there's you know 300 Fortune 500 CIOs at you ever seen a one of them using an iPad and so mobile access to enterprise data is typically what's crushing the enterprise IT story there and then I think what most of those guys have to do is just to decide or what their other sort of main problem is is most people don't understand what value is actually created by your infrastructure and so that's the biggest problem you know that I have an IT budget of X amount we spend it every year but I have no idea how that spend relates to what my core business is, what my revenue is and so on like that there's a lot of the transformation around IT is really about go to market where the business leaders this is what we're seeing as well they see hey I want analytics, IT make it happen so they go shit I got to do something we have 1200 people watching live right now so if you have a question go to Twitter and tweet pound no hashtag node summit with your question and we'll ask it to Jason he's a guru CTO co-founder entrepreneur very successful knows the space cold question comes in is why so many devop tools are written in node.js well node is basically purpose built for those types of things I mean we made it so that one could easily create servers that talk a specific protocol that function as an API endpoint that do sort of data ingress egress and a lot of the sort of devop tools are fundamentally you having a server talk to another server sending a message saying do these following things and you know nodes very good at writing that type of infrastructure so node does not allow blocking calls but hackers love it so why is non-blocking and blocking what's the issue can you just break down I mean I kind of know why I want you to answer it from your words why is the non-blocking thing such a big deal versus blocking calls it really comes down to blocking things basically have to consume a thread or a process per connection and so what you end up doing is you end up having frameworks and language stacks becoming connection bound you know and if you're supposed to connect to a million things and if you can do that with one node process or if you have to do that with 500 Java processes you know that is a big difference and that's fundamentally where the difference comes in okay the next question that well I got this earlier should a novice developer learn node.js or Rails well they're different I mean node.js is using JavaScript and so node.js is a runtime a JavaScript runtime really closer to PHP or Ruby or something else and if you know JavaScript you know node and so that's pretty pretty sort of simple to do Rails is actually a very good way to write websites and web applications and that's actually an MVC framework on top of Ruby and so in the case of node you know there's things like Bootstrap and Express.js and there's similar sort of frameworks built on node to do something like Rails but there are two different things. Let's talk about the platform as a service market obviously it's a hot category I've blogged about this and tweeted about this I feel it's a race to zero if you want to be an entrepreneur and start one now it's a lot of barriers to enter it's a price sensitive market in some areas if you want to go pure pass same time the value of creations at the app level and there's a middleware opportunity how does the marketplace evolve you're in that business and you know in any good business simplicity and abstracting way complexity is a goal. You've done that with join you've abstracted away complexity and it's simple from what we're hearing and what we're reporting so what is that opportunity for new entrepreneurs people that you're servicing because there'll be another Twitter coming out here we're going to try to talk to Blockster who's going to had a great chat with the folks last night oh yeah great killer app it's doing great growing like crazy what is that opportunity for value creation for the entrepreneurs out there in this pass market because everyone wants to have a platform that's the holy grail right so but they really well you know the opportunity really is if you think in 2001 there's maybe 200 million people on the internet and now you know applications like Facebook or Twitter you know we're two and three times larger than that right and you know there's two billion people now using the internet and roughly half of those are accessing it on a mobile device and if you start thinking around really good machine to machine platforms really good native mobile experiences if you really begin to start looking around you know machine data and those types of things there's tremendous opportunities in those areas around mobile mobile platforms good machine to machine you know machine data machine learning those types of things around it and in fact things like machine to machine to machine data that's actually a larger data set potentially than what you would get in say user generated data I've been very supportive and critical of Amazon over the years. Love Amazon I think it represents the most fundamental shift we've seen from a computing programming developer environment I've also called them the hardware store for developers and when I really get crazy I call them the junkyard of computing where you can just make anything you want but you got to kind of put it together on your own. What are the big trends around prefabricated code and kind of you know new frameworks like Node what is the marketplace today that you're seeing the trends around making it easier around coding, deploying and ultimately the scaling so a developer can have a million connections what's the dynamics? Well I think in general it is around you know a lot of the things we get is around agility, flexibility backward compatibility those are normal sort of desires but from a perfect infrastructure what you also need is performance, scalability resiliency reliability you need to understand exactly what's going on when something goes wrong you need to be secure meaning you need to prevent corruption and you need to actually go and be able to sort of look at integrity of things whether something was corrupted and there needs to be sort of a good elegance around accessing the data interacting with it interoperating with it and integrating with that sort of infrastructure and so I think in a lot of ways we're sort of taking from just the agility flexibility you know testing development type things and say how do we actually move it so that this is the core way that we do our applications and this is the core way that we run applications very well and when you start thinking around that you know I have data I need you to store my data good I write apps that access that data and do things that data I need you to run my apps well I want to ask two more questions and I'll let you have the floor what is the most successful company that that's out there or most well known company that's using Node in production well geez I mean there's a you know I've been sort of surprised by but it's everyone LinkedIn LinkedIn's whole well I don't know if they're Facebook's using in production but you know LinkedIn's mobile endpoints are now all in Node they actually got a very good compression based on that you know we had a good article by Cade Metz and Wired yesterday talking about Sabre's use of Node.js you know which Sabre does I think the only thing that does really more transactions per second than they do is the New York Stock Exchange and so you know being able to sit down and say well you know we're actually going to you know take key API endpoints around you know all the you know airline registrations and reservations of the world and run that through we see a tremendous amount of use even within you know different types of government agencies and the list goes on and on and on congratulations well we're big fans of you guys we love Node my final question is and then I'll let Alex jump in because I know I've been hogging the microphone we're at the beginning of the year 2012 looking back last year what are you like most excited about what happened last year what couple things are one thing that you can look back last year saying man I am what happened with Joanne and then what's your goals this year for 2012 and don't give me the whole global come on be specific something personal like last last year what was the big thing you look back at the end of the year have a cocktail New Year's Eve well I mean November 28th my third daughter was born so that was a pretty good event congratulations thanks thanks I have how old are they eleven two and a half and seven weeks old and then Joanne's the eight year old one soon is going to be public and out of the house right soon close how about this year what's your goals this year what's your well we're actually we're expanding ourselves across about a dozen data centers both in the US Europe and Asia pack ourselves and then for a lot of our larger infrastructure software customers is just going in there and servicing their infrastructure well and capturing as much of their IT spend as we can I mean that's revenue is good Alex I'm sorry about that talking all the microphones okay here we are I just have one question I'm curious about that differentiator between you and Amazon Web Services and I was learning a little bit about your data visualization tools can you talk about that and how that serves as a differentiator for you yeah I mean we we have a pretty unique ability to look at any aspect of the entire system across all of our data centers you know in real time in production without a production impact and so that sort of ability to go through and say exactly what's going on at any sort of point in time not just an aggregate but even on individual type events and most importantly when people sort of come to us and say why is something slow we can tell them exactly why it's slow they can say why isn't this working we can tell them exactly why it's working and that sort of general insight means that when you deal with the way that we do infrastructure you know the whole I don't know why we can't log into the server just reboot the damn thing like that doesn't happen now my last question because I know you do have to go you have this note someone here in San Francisco are you planning to bring it to other cities yeah there's space under the logo I mean I think the idea is you know we wouldn't mind doing one in New York, Amsterdam Singapore, take to Tokyo and I asked that because that seems to be critical for you guys because Joyant is you know you guys definitely are second to Amazon but Amazon has developed a really great user community I'm curious on how Joyant is going to be able to accomplish that by developing that user community and developing that buzz that Amazon has been able to develop we've always loved our communities there's no experience in history ever of someone sitting down and saying I just got screwed by Joyant Amazon has a tendency to sit there and one revolution after the other basically go through and cannibalize what someone else is doing there we don't do that with our ecosystems or communities why don't we just end it on that now thanks a lot welcome to the cube Jason thank you for your time I know you're super busy Jason Hoffman CTO co-founder of Joyant very successful company eight years in the business and now leading the charge and cloud bringing real ease of use simplicity to IT to developers great community of developers Alex I was very impressed with the funding announcement I'll see their team the growing globally he's got a newborn man that's a stressful life yeah 85 million makes that a lot nicer in the bank he probably took some off the table for himself so he's not hurting but really hats off to Joyant who's really leading the charge and sponsoring a lot of the open source projects around Joyant the folks out there Joyant is open source is a lot of great Solaris I mean that's what you know it's interesting about them is like they come out of like the Sun community in many ways it's just a vibrant community I mean the folks I talked to last night the developers really high-end a lot of I call that you know young but also some older guys in there wasn't just like the pure young guys so you get the new generation and you got the old school comp sigh guys in there too who love this so real vibrant community a lot of energy a lot of smile and I'll see a lot of beer drinking last night at the thirsty bear but I'm impressed with the the tight-knit community one startup that I talked to part of this no-jam thing tomorrow they met online and they won Brown University we're going to hear from them as well coming on the Cube at 445 today these students they met each other online broke a little introduction they're in the New York area so you know this is spanning multiple cities as you pointed out so I wouldn't be surprised if they took Node Summit on the road and rock the house there yeah and I mean my point to him was that you know Amazon really knows how to use their blog they know how they do a lot of user type of events they're very good at spreading the word that way and you know that's what I would think that Node Summit could provide in different cities I just want to make a shout out to Dave Vellante and the Wikibon crew in Massachusetts Dave wish you were here Alex is filling in for you I'm going to do our best to hold down the Cube without you Dave Vellante is in Boston and he's doing some biz doing some research and Dave and I were at HP labs and Mark and Kean were there as well we produced their moonshot we were at the moonshot event we produced the Cube there to kind of unpack this whole change of architecture and moonshot is HP's new server that's being launched it's really kind of redefining what a data center box should look like so here we have with Joy the new concept of systems environments where Haruku's success in my opinion is that they've looked at the cloud as an operating system and constructed it in a way that delivers value and the success of Node.js Alex in my opinion is just that the fact that they could deliver such performance easily really created the value for Joy and so here you got a cloud company who basically has this new technology delivers great value it's the better mouse trap and it's emerging and as he said he's never heard a customer say they got screwed with Joyant and he's kind of implying that Amazon screws over their customers so very interesting sound bite there and that might make a headline Amazon screws their customers, Joyant doesn't so you know I don't want to say that per se but that's what too much he was saying I also want to say that Dave Vellante is does a terrific job here and I'm just honored to be in his in his place right here right now so thanks Dave What would Dave Vellante say if he was here right now? Yeah Dave Vellante would be you know I think would probably be asking him a lot of questions about about Joyant himself and wondering about the EMC connection I'm sure you know I think he'd have a lot to say about the EMC connection to Well first of all we'd be talking a lot about Mark Lewis because Dave knows the EMC I would ask Dave if you Dave if you could chime in about Mark Lewis I'd be great to get your perspective I just wrote a blog post killer blog post about Mark leaving breaking news so if you can chime in be great if we could pull him in on Skype I don't know if Mark can pull that in get Dave Vellante on Skype and get his perspective but I think Dave would ask Joyant about there a little bit more their business model and around how they would are going to roll out in the hybrid cloud and I didn't want to get to that because I want to get through some of the technical stuff but to me I think Joyant is a great opportunity to spend so I think that's going to be something that's going to be interesting to watch Part of what we saw in that announcement that came out from Joyant about their funding they have announced a new partnership with Telefonica and I think that really illustrates an opportunity for Joyant to leverage their relationship with telecoms and provide that service to them so they can provide even more additional services and apps and such back to their and customers and I think that really fits into what I heard from Jason about how everything is a node like a node can be a data center, a node can be a smart phone, a node can be a PC and that seems to be a core message that the telecoms are starting to pick up on I think that's in contrast to what we saw with AT&T joining OpenStack and building their own cloud architecture What do you think this means for HP and OpenStack and Citrix? What's your take on that? We were just talking about Citrix last night and we really haven't heard much on them so if the Citrix folks are out there you're hearing nodes on it we'd like to hear from you I'm hearing that there are some question marks about cloud.com for instance Tata Consulting, they work with cloud.com but I'm hearing stories about where Tata is going to take its infrastructure and I'm not so certain it's with cloud.com We're waiting for the Citrix story really, Citrix is a major contributor to OpenStack and so that may be part of what we're waiting for is for some more announcements from OpenStack but I'd be very curious to hear what Citrix is up to What is your take on the services business? For the folks out there, Alex Williams heads up services angle and is the managing editor for all of our enterprise coverage he also has been getting deep into the money making side of the business, which is there's a big explosion of consulting firms we broke a story with Clint Finley broke a story about the Node.js All-Stars forming a consulting firm we know about cloud scaling with Randy Bias hugely successful and Stratus is doing extremely well with their business funded by Charles Bieler at El Dorado there's an emerging channel and community around delivering and deploying services we heard Haruku we're going to have their Chief Operating Officer on later today, Orientation there's a massive opportunity not only from a deployment standpoint but services, back in the old clients server days this is a gravy train of dollars so Alex what is going on in the quote money making because developers love to develop products but they like to make money we're entering this phase where there's a real kind of market for providers I think it's well illustrated in Accenture's technology report which they published yesterday and in that report they talk a lot about how companies need to take the reins in social, take the reins in past take the reins in contextual awareness not just the mobile apps but in everything, in every way we live which is very forward thinking but what really came out of that as well is what we call this race to the middle and you really see it illustrated in this report from Accenture where they're trying to play off they want to provide new innovative solutions to the CIOs but they know the CIOs have lots of infrastructure already and they're not going to just be able to tear it all out so the service providers are kind of in this interesting space right now I think that's one example of it I think another issue that I think the service provider is about what is their core business model anymore is it about deep integrations yes, is it about consulting yes but what about app development how are they helping their clients become service providers themselves and so they can compete more effectively in their own markets and so a rental car provider can provide a much more streamlined experience that integrates with people's smartphones so they make it much easier for their customer how are they providing those kinds of solutions so their clients can become as powerful as we have seen from some of the service providers out there the other issue I think is around outsourcing and outsourcing is changing dramatically and that's where I think you're going to see some real disruption I think especially around companies like Infosys Infosys did downgrade their market expectations last week and those at least the second time that they've had to do that this past year and what they talk about really is the currency issues and the issues that they face in currency conversion and we all well know what's happening in Europe right now and I think that's illustrative of that and they also talk about in the coming election year so there's lots and lots of I think there's lots and lots of disruption going on in the service space as the traditional service space as we have in other parts of the market my good friend Sam Jay at Sam Jay on Twitter great guy who just retweeted my where is Google smiley face obviously Google is the main enabler here with Chrome and V8 and all that work under the covers of empowering nodes so they're not here so there's no representation of Google at all I've talked to some folks inside Google about this and the response I got was Alex that they're very much aware of it and there are a ton of node projects going on within Google but no official or no statement at this point of any products my guess is Google is all over this and so what's interesting is what are the other guys doing? Yahoo no one's here from Yahoo that's a shame rest in peace hope they can turn it around but Microsoft very much a big presence here Scott Gunn 3 is here I'm going to try to get him on the cube but let's talk about Microsoft Microsoft is interesting in this because they actually are in a good position and you have some information around what we've heard around Microsoft is role with this so have you heard anything around Microsoft they're obviously doing well with this with Azure you know what's interesting about Microsoft is their recent push you know into the open source community and you know there's a there was the opening discussion on cross platforms and in that we had one of the you know the guy who actually runs Microsoft's open source efforts is Janugo Rabilino and I've heard him speak before and he really I think he's one of the people really spearheading Microsoft and listen I mean Microsoft has to do this they're living in this cross platform world they cannot you know rule by scarcity anymore I mean that's what they could do for for 10 20 years scarcity allowed them to be the kingpin we're now in an age of abundance where application development is very easy and you can do pretty much anything you want on a platform the people who are coming out they might want to pump up the sound Mark the sound Andy you want to come up? we've got the EMC Ventures guy here who is Andy Janks who's also co-organizer great to see you hey Mark Lewis get in here come on breaking story no no no get in here Mark? yeah both of you guys here Alex you gotta bounce out Alex you gotta bounce jump in I'll just stay in I'm going to text tweet this out crazy Mark Lewis right here next to me no longer at EMC Ventures broken on siliconangle.com and he was not the source for the folks out there I confirmed this on my own and it wasn't anyone from EMC so Andy Janks you're with EMC Ventures among other things the co-organizer for Nodes Summit congratulations you and Charles Bieler put this together step up to the microphone a little bit make sure you can hear me don't worry about the background sound so Andy Janks entrepreneur operator, investor, angel investor involved in a lot of things one of them is EMC Ventures you're a bit around the block and you're also co-organizing this pleasure thanks for having the cube here it's our pleasure to be here and work with you on this we're happy to have you so tell us what's the vibe here what are the tweets, EMC Ventures is the news so first thing I got to get out of the way is Mark Lewis is stepping down what does that mean for EMC Ventures Pat Gelsinger also taking over share with us your perspectives EMC Ventures going away? I think what you can expect from EMC Ventures I'll specifically address that question first is obviously Pat has big plans for us and we're all now working with Pat to get EMC Ventures to continue the success that we had in 2011 in 2012 we made a bunch of really good investments invested some good corporate balance sheet money returning already Silver Spring Networks went public for file of their S1 you know we don't like to talk publicly about those things but if you happen to read a filing then yes you could you could imply that we are invested in Silver Spring but yeah I mean we've found a lot of very good I'm sure Bloomberg will be all over that Corey Johnson is watching all I can say is we tend to keep a low profile, stay behind the scenes what we are trying to do at EMC Ventures is really find ecosystem plays that we can get into and kind of crush our knowledge of a space and they are not necessarily going to be all storage based investments they're going to be investments that give us visibility into markets and into adjacencies that's going to allow EMC to be competitive down the road. So EMC just crushed their earnings obviously VMware is kicking ass we're going to have Steve Herodon as well they had a big leadership meeting apparently last month I had quoted Pat Gelsing who was on the Cube when I asked him specifically about EMC Ventures at VMworld he said we've got to be on the west coast that's where all the action is happening I'll get the clip somewhere I'll have Mark find it basically what he said was we'd love EMC Ventures, he wouldn't disclose the amount under management but he basically said no we're all for the west coast and that's where the action is happening is that still the mission for EMC Ventures? I would say that there is a heavy presence of managing directors here on the west coast no doubt but we do have coverage on the east coast as well and we also have coverage in places like Israel so we are looking beyond just the west coast but we do recognize that a large amount of the start-up ecosystem is going to be here on the west coast so what about the node someone here we had Jason on it was awesome so where's Google where's HP, where's OpenStack what's the ecosystem how does this disrupt the ecosystem I mean obviously we talked with Jason about how successful nodes have been in such a short time because of the level of performance and value it provides in conjunction with say Joyant and developer community so it's really rocking and rolling people love it what's the disruption here OpenStack where's HP well I mean obviously I can't come in on those businesses they're going to do what they're going to do if you look at the sponsor list that's here we have some great folks that have stepped up and said that they're going to embrace node Microsoft, Joyant VMware with the cloud foundry offering NodeJetsu, Heroku I mean we've got some very very good companies that are embracing the node movement and where I see this going and what's really exciting from an EMC Ventures perspective as to why we're interested in kind of node and the way things are moving is you know if you think about the hot the nature of big data meets cloud right so the total EMC messaging I mean we think node in a way disrupts the whole notion of client server right so now it's point-to-point communication which screams cloud adoption which screams platform as a service which screams a lot of the initiatives that EMC has already taken on so when you talk about VMware with cloud foundry, when you talk about EMC with the notion of the hybrid cloud, the public cloud, the private cloud that's what gets us excited about NodeJetsu and Joyant I mean for that matter as well and what they're doing around their platform as a service I mean obviously the EMC Ventures is to make money but I mean is this a hedge your Joyant investment, a hedge against VMware? Well I mean like I said we can't comment on where we invest but what our charter is at EMC Ventures is to go out and find the best companies based on the thesis that we have around cloud big data, next generation data centers security trust the trust notion within RSA and obviously we have some core things as well around storage flash based So Pat Gelsinger, we love Pat he's been on the Cube multiple times, he's very candid and we go toe to toe with Pat and he's just so good, he's like sitting at a sports bar with Pat talking tech but let's talk about Joe Tucci I wrote him my post, Joe Tucci's old school Wang, he's going to retire soon he loves cloud, I mean can you share some insight, not necessarily specifics but to what level does Joe Tucci engage still at EMC is he like into cloud huge or is it just more of he's just kind of phasing out Well I mean I, again I can only give you my perspective on Joe, I'm not Joe so I can't but from you know from a rank and file from the troops perspective I can tell you that being in Boston a couple of weeks ago for our meeting there, it was it was interesting, Joe is really excited I mean he got up on stage and told us the group that was there that he's very committed to this to the extent that he's said things like I'm excited I've not been in a while it's fun to come to work every day I wake up every morning, I get excited about coming to work and he reiterated our pillars, our three pillars cloud, big data and trust and he talked a lot about how excited he is for each one of those pillars and the growth areas that EMC has in each of them not just from a mind chair perspective but actually from a product perspective as well Okay so we have 1800 people watching right now and so they ask a question, I'm a newbie why should I learn no JS, I already know Rails, do I learn one of the other what is node, what is node's summit, what does it mean to them my response to that is as we heard in there from the panelists in the first two sessions this morning node is good for solving specific problems, as a developer what you need to do is you need to pick the right tool in the toolbox to solve your problem and is node right for everything, no is it right for very specific things absolutely, I mean when you talk about things like Ruby versus node versus Python versus Erlang you name it right, I mean there's different applications that each of those is very good at and what I would suggest to people who are watching who want to know more about node is to obviously it's a strong community it's the largest community on GitHub right now, it passed Rails I think back in November go look at the documentation you know Ryan was just on stage talking about how hard they work to get the right documentation into the developers hands I would say the best thing to do is go look at those go look at all the sites go look at all the documentation, go look at the help come to events like node's summit figure out if it's right for you but if you're doing kind of point to point communication whether it's a sensor network or whether it's a web based app or if you use your iPhone as a controller you know I think that node is perfectly positioned for the quote real time web and the distributed nature of the web so we are launching this week node summit devopsangle.com we're going to be covering a silicon angle network in depth coverage like a blanket what devops means, basically that's cloud that is what joint does that's what you're investing in that's what all races merging together as one is really what made Amazon a joint successful we're looking forward to working with you guys at node's summit and Andy can I ask a question about that so what is your perspective what's the EMC perspective on the devops culture and what's emerging oh man I mean I think that if you talk about EMC I mean you have to include VMware in that sentence right and I think that the core of devops and what we're trying to do inside of EMC we're trying to do it from an investment perspective we're trying to do it from a culture perspective inside of VMware again I mean I'm on the EMC side but I obviously have strong ties to VMware and I mean just look at the amount of effort that VMware has pushed into this space and you'll see a commitment all the way from Paul you name it from Paul to Derek, Steve Herrod is going to be here today he can definitely talk more about that from a VMware perspective but I mean there is no doubt that that EMC is on board we're excited about it VMware more so I mean if you ever have a chance to talk to Paul you should try and actually get Paul on the cube I mean you talk to Paul I mean he is passionate he is really shy because rapid fire of questions well and you throw me off I mean your first couple questions you're going to throw me off but I will say that I'll tell you handling the hot seat pretty well the cube is a very friendly environment we want you to be friendly we don't ask you about sharing knowledge you've done well well and you know if Pat if Pat likes it I like well people don't know about you Andy you've also been an entrepreneur you're an operator you're not just a lackey at EMC you're in the trenches and he leaves up and congratulations and I just want to point that out to the crowd that was pretty amazing work and fantastic operation and you know this is good for developers I believe that the developer community here will be a fundamental player in the changing web I mean this is really the web 2.0 vision coming true what's interesting to me is we have so many developers emerging right and to have thousands of developers and thousands of apps a lot of them have market potential but these people who are developing they don't need that much money really to get it going I mean how do you treat that as a venture capitalist how do you treat your fund yeah I think the nature of venture capital is changing tremendously I mean when I started my company it was 2002 and we built out a I guess today you'd call it a private cloud in our own data centers multiple data centers in London San Francisco New York, Dallas and we had these data centers that we had to maintain that we had to do and we needed a tremendous amount of capital to do it today obviously that's changed quite a bit and so as a venture capitalist what you have to do is you have to also pick where you can impact with a financial investment obviously EMC Ventures we're not going to write a $2 million check we're not going to write a $2 million check where capital is going to be inefficiently deployed and so when you think about our thesis around big data cloud enterprise those businesses still require a decent amount of capital to get not off the ground but to get product market fit and so that's exactly what we're looking at from a venture capital perspective in general I know my friends on Sandhill you know we're looking at projects in which to to make small bets across businesses as they get that product market fit and as they start growing revenue and show a clear path to monetization obviously venture capital is changing a lot you hear a lot about funds not being able to raise their next follow on you hear about the age of the you know super angel I'm an angel investor so I love to put money to work in small increments and watch how efficient people can be however it still will require you there was a stat the other day that I saw from HubSpot I was watching a video but HubSpot's founder I know a guy there Dave Cancel who's their CTO and I was watching some HubSpot video that of the companies that have gone public that are venture backed on average they've still raised $40 million so there still is the need for capital it's how do you deploy that capital how's that capital being deployed efficiently in a space going after a specific thesis right if you want to do a kind of spray and pray mentality that's great but that's kind of more of the super angel rather than venture capital I think as venture capitalists we all need to adjust our business models and our profiles accordingly that seems illustrative with the Excel fund that we saw the big data fund but ironically too the first investment was for more than $50 million I think what Ping's done there is really smart he said we have a specific thesis we know it's going to take a specific amount of money to get these companies through incubation and out the door and now that's a large amount of capital that they've put to work but obviously there's a reason and a need for it is trend emerging for instance in communities outside the valley I mean I live in Portland Oregon and we have a fund called PI it's a Portland incubator experiment and it's in affiliation with Wyden and Kennedy we have Wycombinator so there's these different labs that are emerging essentially for these young companies that seems to be a real trend is that something that you're following how do you guys capitalize on that kind of a trend? we're absolutely following the incubator model as an angel I've actually invested in a couple companies that have come out of incubators as you see ventures the way that we look at that specific kind of graduating class into a real product it makes it a little bit easier to evaluate these businesses because people have gone through a strict process that allows them to be more intelligent they've enabled product market fit yes they have to give up a little bit of equity and return for that but at the end of the day they turn out professional businesses on day one when they're raising their A and I think that's different over the last five or six years I think that's definitely changed the culture of startups and of founders partner meetings a lot more prepared they have a better product story they have a better deck they allow us to make better decisions in shorter time frames and that's really at the end of the day what it's all about it's about giving the entrepreneur the ability a thumbs up or a thumbs down as fast as possible so they can move on that makes perfect sense now on the other side of the spectrum you're responsible to make you're obligated to make responsible investments and the people who are funding funding you are looking at this pretty closely how are they adjusting is the adjustment happening there as well with the ones who are funding the VC yeah I mean again we're a single LP entity so we're a little bit different but I can tell you that the the nature of venture capital has changed I think anybody would tell you that that's just the facts the LPs that are investing in traditional funds obviously are doing it because they have a reason whether it be return on investment or a thesis that they have if they're a pension fund maybe a certain percentage has to go to alternative investments but at the same time you also find these being much smarter at least I have at least when I talk to them they're much smarter about the funds in which they invest so when you do see big large pension funds coming in and making an investment an LP investment in a fund they know what they're doing it's not 10 years ago where I just need to be in venture capital so they're being very specific about where they place their bets as well because at the end of the day they're accountable to somebody also it's this funny thing as an entrepreneur when I had my business you don't really have insight into this but each layer is accountable to somebody as a startup CEO I'm accountable to my board and my investors those investors are also accountable to somebody and those LPs are also accountable to somebody it's a full cycle it really is I'm curious too about EMC's focus on cloud big data and trust and in cloud I'm curious what are some of the themes that you're looking for cloud what are the themes that you're looking for in big data and themes and trust I mean three in each would be great I can give you I can just go really quickly and then I have to bail but I can say that from a big data perspective EMC has a core asset Green Plum our MPP scale database however that is our kind of tip of the spear into the big data space so what we're looking for there is players up and down the stack so it's going to be people who are providing analytics we have our Hadoop distribution so we're going to be looking for businesses that our ecosystem plays around that and adjacencies that are not going to be something that we can compete with but that we can actually make an investment in and have them not just support our offering but we can support them as well so our unified analytics platform which was just announced prior to the break, holiday break is another thing that we're looking at pretty specifically there's visualization tools that can be built on top of that so things like that in cloud obviously the things around secure, well cloud and trust kind of go together because what you want to do between private public you need this notion of a hybrid cloud so everything from being able to have security between those things and be able to move workloads effortlessly be able to manage those things that's a big notion around cloud obviously our infrastructure products there, that frictionless environment our products there again we're going to be investing around those products and looking at those products and then our RSA offering our trust offering around mobile, right and how do you secure mobile devices and endpoints, node obviously and again how do you tie security back into the cloud and so if you think about EMC we've got cloud and big data as the signposts of which our wonderful marketing department has put together and then the kind of core thing that runs through both of them is trust and so what we're going to be looking for are things in those three big buckets that allow us to take advantage of an ecosystem play so I got to go and I see Charles there by the way Andy or Brian Brian Cantrell, yeah there you go Andy thank you very much, no problem hopefully it was good great so let's so we're here at the break at Node Summit we had our first first discussions we're moving into the breakout sessions now we're going to have a few guests coming in some folks from Joyant and I believe also we have some people from who else we have up today we have people coming in from Steve Herrod from VMware and a number of people who are really kind of practitioners that's really the folks we're really excited to talk to today are there practitioners here who are really who are doing the hard work we're going to bring in Clint Finley, managing editor for our new DevOps Angle site we're launching this week here at the event as well as Brian Cantrell who's a Node Joyant engineer, worked on detrays among other things so Brian, Clint let's roll you guys in hey Brian, Alex Williams hey how are you, I'm Brian Cantrell from Joyant great well great we were talking last night about Joyant and the work that you're doing maybe you can just give us an overview of what your role is and what you're working on and the significance of this event today yeah sure, so I'm the VP of engineering at Joyant I do want to clarify one thing earlier in the previous session they said that there were no assembly programmers in the room and I started having a coughing fit as if I had tuberculosis and not the only assembly programmer in the room so one of the great things about Node, and to your question of why is Node important to us Node very much is about the whole stack and thinking about the whole stack yes it is high in the stack of abstraction but if you look at those who were the early adopters for Node, if you look at the Paul Kornas on stage for example, these are whole stack engineers these are engineers who understand the stack top to bottom it doesn't mean that we're not cross-platform the entire stack and what Node really does the power for Node from my perspective is it has taken the stack and reflected it up into this higher level environment, which allows us to build new systems that perform much better, that should be in principle be used for many different new kinds of things great so you created detrace for Sun and now you're working on detrace for Joyant is that right? well yeah, so I along with Mike Shapiro and Adam Webenthal at some micro systems developed this technology detrace that allows us to observe the system at Joyant we wanted to take detrace to the next level and that meant taking it up into Node, allowing you to see Node and understand what Node is actually doing and one of my colleagues actually Dave Pacheco has done terrific work on allowing you to associate in kernel events with where you are in the Node stack so you can actually see for example when you initiate an I.O. where are you when you're on CPU when Node goes on CPU it can be very hard to figure out what the hell's going on and using this technology we can actually see up into Node but it's a very deep OS specific technology that allows us to do that and I think that's my point is that Node really stitches those elements of the stack together in a way that doesn't bind you to the operating system your application is still cross-platform but you are able to leverage with the system beneath you to have a better understanding of the system that you're building okay so are you using Node.js now to expand Dtrace or are you using Dtrace to monitor Node.js apps the answer is both so the answer is both we are using Dtrace we are extending Dtrace up into Node and making that and we've added probes to Node and so on and allowed people to see what the Node program is the reason the answer is both is we've also developed Dave and Robert Mestof team developed a distributed analytics infrastructure called cloud analytics that is a real-time analytics infrastructure that uses Dtrace at the back end all written in Node so now we implemented Node as an implementation detail right the fact that it's implemented in Node is not something that is is necessarily bound to it we can implement it in C we can implement it in another language but we chose to implement it in Node because Node was the right tool for that job so we so we both are using Node to extend Dtrace effectively and we are extending Dtrace into Node okay well what is it about Node then that makes it so good for seeing deep into the stack and that why was Node the best tool for the best over the job because Node allows us to write a kind of program that we have always written an event oriented program so an event oriented program is one that instead of having many threads of control that spend much of their life blocking on events you have a single event loop effectively and because of JavaScript and Clojure support Node has made it much easier to develop an event oriented program and historically you can do event oriented programs in C I've done them and the operating system kernel is an event oriented program I've done them there are a handful of folks who have done them they are hard and as the folks like Paul Kornow who's developed those kinds of systems can attest to it is brutally hard to develop an event oriented system in C in C++ and then these other environments Twisted Python and so on it was very hard to develop event oriented programs in those environments Node makes it so unbelievable easy that you look at that seven line hello world program in Node that is an event oriented web server that could deal with all the hacker news traffic you wanted to throw at and that's an amazing thing so what does that say about the evolution of programming languages and where we are is this an inflection point well I do think it's an inflection point and I think it's an inflection point that actually I would like into the development of C at Bell Labs in the 70s C was an inflection point because it allowed the system to be reflected up into it so with C the operating system became a first class notion read, write, open, lc these Unix primitives became they were introduced to most folks through the language through C C and Unix are very much tied together that was an inflection point because it allowed us to think about the system when we develop in the language I think we're at a similar inflection point well it's interesting because the system in the language and so you really need to know the system when you were developing the software for it we're kind of in a similar place right now well I think so and I think what Node has allowed us to do is it has taken the system abstraction and it has exported again into the language and it allows us to develop novel systems I think that's the inflection point we're at is that we are seeing a whole new class of novel systems being developed and from my perspective what I'm seeing out there is these systems have a trait in common they are often real-time systems these are web-facing real-time systems that would have been excruciatingly difficult in other languages or environments that Node uniquely makes possible what is it about Node that makes it easier than using something like Netty or Twisted well Node is all async but with Twisted now I've never implemented Twisted so I'm sure for those of you out there that are emphatic about Twisted I'm sure you can become very angry at me on the internet it won't be the first time but Twisted is a mixed async-sync model so anytime you have that you're on a tightrope because it means that if you do anything that is inadvertently synchronous you're done you have taken that one thread of control and you've corked it and now you can no longer process events in Node there effectively are no synchronous operations yes there are synchronous operations but they are very clearly delineated they are only used in module initiation it's very clear where those synchronous operations live and where they are cordoned off and it allows you to build in a composable manner an entirely async server that would be much more difficult than Twisted we're going to break in just a few minutes and I'd like to I'd like your last perspective on your comparison of the Amazon web services community to the joint community and how the joint community is going to evolve in comparison in comparison to AWS I think that we are building a service that is really typified by high performance high reliability there are certain ideas that have permeated into the cloud that we're uncomfortable with one of those ideas is that cloud computing can just go away and that it is up to you in your application to deal with essentially arbitrary failure now it is true that you need in your application you do need to architect for failure of course and yes in your application you need to architect the data center failure but the reality is when those failures are induced or exacerbated by your operator they put your application into new kinds of failure modes that we very strongly believe that the cloud should be reliable it should be available it should be high performing and most importantly at least from my perspective personally when the cloud sucks and let's face it as long as there are disks in the cloud the cloud is going to suck at some point when the cloud sucks we need to be able to understand why the cloud must become transparent and you must be able to see the infrastructure you're running on and know where that problem is coming from to a whole other vacuum well that's right and I think that it's very important that a cloud become robust and have the right levels of abstraction when it works and goes transparent when it fails for you so you can understand where that's coming from well Brian thank you very much for taking some time you bet my pleasure thank you very much thanks guys we're going to take a quick break here from the node summit we'll be back real soon with in about five minutes so stay tuned thank you the cube is this conceptual box if you will we bring people inside of the cube and then we share ideas but those ideas don't stay inside the cube we explode that idea we allow that idea to grow and grow and it does so we really try to own the whole enterprise technology space and that's what we're all about we take analysis we take publishing news and we take live TV and we combine it together in a product and share that with our community no one's doing what we're doing what we're doing in my opinion is the future of media future of television, future of the internet video is an amazing powerful product so we work in what John and I talk about as a data model people always say well how do you guys make money we sell knowledge we sell information we sell data so the problem that we are we call big fast total data anybody can analyze a gigabyte of data if you do a thousand gigabytes that's a terabyte of data you take a thousand terabytes that's a petabyte of data a thousand petabytes that's a zeta byte of data so you are talking big data lots and lots of data and can you analyze it in real time as it comes in right the cube is like we call ESPN of tech because we want to cover technology like ESPN covers sports John has a great vision for what's going to happen next and so John is sort of that alter ego of mine that lets me see the future with us Michael Sean Wright Mark Hopkins you know we've got Kim here today we've got a team of people on our news desk run by Kristen Nicole so she has a team that help feed us the news of the day what's happening the analysis we have a team of analysts may feed us information about what's happening and then really importantly we have a community a big community of many hundreds of contributors we love technology we love we love the innovation and that's what we do we want to create a great user experience and in order to do that properly you got to really really prepare the cube for the past year that we've been in operation has been very very successful and you know companies do pay us to come here I think the companies who bring us in with the cube get two things they get a third party independent resource to provide knowledge to their audience who are seeking this demand for the product and also compliments their existing media we're here at an event and the company has their own TV organization and they have to pay a premium for that so we compliment that by offering a objective organic third party independent analysis of the event that's why the top executives come in here the cube is a comfortable place it's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world and we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer my entire career has been really built on relationships and talking to people and extracting knowledge from people largely in a belly to belly private forum what the cube does is it explodes that to a huge audience I mean we've reached millions with the cube and it's real time it's a live TV so you've got to be quick on your feet but you learn very fast and then you iterate from that learning so John and I play off of that and we're really trying to up our game Finley with Silicon Angle and this is the cube we're broadcasting live from Node Summit today I'm joined with I'm joined by a couple guys from VMware's Cloud Foundry can you introduce yourselves yeah sure I'm James Waters and I run a partner in ecosystem development for Cloud Foundry I'm Derek Collison the CTO of the cloud application platform great I'd like to talk a little bit about how Node.js fits into Cloud Foundry sure Cloud Foundry is VMware's open pass and even on day one from both the architecture and how we built the system to when we launched it in April it's a true polyglot system meaning that all apps all languages all frameworks are treated equally and Node.js was at the time something very very new but trending but also very much in the vein of keeping us on it so we supported the enterprise Java we supported the Ruby and Ruby on Rails but on opening day we also had Node.js as a first-class citizen what are some use cases that somebody might want to use Node.js on Cloud Foundry for I think it's more about why would you want to use Node.js anywhere sure right and then what does a platform as a service system bring to bear to make your life easier and so I don't think that's Node.js specific at all that's applicable to all different languages you know to .NET to Node.js and Ruby and so the question is what does a platform bring to an app developer that makes their life a lot easier and how does that apply to Node.js and I think the answer is that the platform introduces services and easy bindings fault tolerance horizontal scalability things like that and Node.js fits in really well with that I think we've seen a lot of emerging use cases in the mobile space so front-end clients that have a lot of events and they want to do updates and Node is certainly taking off there I think one of the interesting debates from the panels this morning was are people adopting Node because of JavaScript compatibility or is it more about cheaper events and getting better performance in I.O and I actually think if you actually listen to Ryan talk and Derek talk it's much more about the events in I.O. and the performance side of things so you want to understand kind of that that discussion and how it fits in as well okay what are some of the trade-offs that you would experience going towards a platform as a service as opposed to customizing your entire stack on your own you know it obviously depends on the platform so if a platform is very opinionated not only in how it's architected in itself but how it actually wants to run your apps the trade-off is going to be higher and so you know I would say I think Cloud Foundry is at one end of the spectrum where you have to probably give up the least of if you've written a Node app and it runs on your laptop and it's binding to a database and you're using WebSockets you know those type of things transition pretty seamlessly into Cloud Foundry so things like you can't bind to port 80 or you can't write to a certain directory it's kind of really the the litmus test to get into Cloud Foundry now one would argue that the other side of the spectrum is something like Google App Engine where they really want you to design your app because it's going to be deployed on Google App Engine and you have to use their APIs and their libraries and then there's of course a spectrum in between Cloud Foundry is it pretty customizable since it's an open source and private pass well the simple answer is yes because it's open source which you know there's very other few others platforms that are that way you can go in and tinker and do you know pull requests and submit patches to the repo that we'll pull in now that being said you know Cloud Foundry is just like other other platforms it's a distributed system and so it's complex so you got to figure out how to get your feet wet and how to understand where the pieces are but I think we offer an opportunity for systems developers to actually take this base and tweak and enhance it and then submit those back to the community the other thing is it might not be customized but it might be a partner so in our case we have partners that make contribute code back to Cloud Foundry so it's not so much that you want every user to tweak it on their own but you can bring in experts that know more about a specific case and you don't have to do very complicated code sharing agreements like if you've ever tried to do two close source projects together it almost never works because of IP issues because we have an open door we say hey come in tell us how we can optimize the platform for what you need and I think that's a really important part of the customization it's a macro customization for individual users it seems like the Cloud Foundry team has been a little quiet over the past few months what have you been working on? what's the vision? to be honest with you the team is growing very quickly and essentially trying to deal with all the success to be honest with you so when a service comes out and you've architected and built it on day one you're hoping for everything to hold you don't have to leak water but the amount of participation and the amount of people coming to the platform was very very high and so the team has been figuring out how to actually bear with that scale figure out how to keep moving the platform forward what you have to realize is that platform as a service is a consumable by an app developer and there's the bits that you can get but it doesn't displace IAS and the physical hardware which has to exist underneath coordinating all of those up and down the stack is a pretty big challenge is there anything you'd like to add about what the team's been working on what have you been working on personally? yeah sure so I actually think we haven't been quiet at all I think people are actually trying to figure out what's the vector to evaluate Paz success by I think Paz is so new that everyone wants to say well is it adding a language is it getting a million developers that have deployed a certain type of demo app what is the metric that we can measure this Paz evolution by and I think the market is still searching for that so we haven't been quiet I mean in December we announced .NET support which is pretty huge there's two companies that have come out and say hey we're going to build a .NET implementation of Cloud Foundry there's already a bunch of enterprises that have contacted us very interested in that so I think we've actually done some very disruptive things if you look at say Microsoft Azure approach which is to have a little bit more of a closed system and port run times to it I think we've executed much faster over the you know eight months that we've been around than a much larger project like that In addition to what James was saying the other big thing that we pushed pretty hard was micro cloud foundry and that's essentially based around the premise of the original design of the system that you can take this thing anywhere and so you can run all of Cloud Foundry the exact same bits that are running in the service that we offer today on your laptop and what we tried to do was instead of you having to stand up the open source bits by yourself which can be tedious I mean we have chef's grips and we have ways to make that easier the team really thought that the best way to make this extremely easy is to package the whole thing up into a VM VMware is really good at running VMs and deliver this and that's what micro cloud foundry is and so in addition to what James is talking about with .NET support if you notice we've been iterating very quickly on micro cloud foundry which is essentially enabling not only the public pass but the private pass as well which I also think is kind of unique I think that's a good point. Coming back around to the public and private pass ideas I want to go back to the question of what are some use cases for the pass and I'm particularly curious about why somebody would want to use a private pass for example can you give a specific or hypothetical use case? Well for example the friction between an application developer developing the app and deploying it needs to go down and so not only does platform as a service need to add all of these additional services and things to do fault tolerance and high availability it just needs to be easier and platform as a service does that and so if an organization for data sovereignty or compliance or for whatever reason needs to keep the apps and the data in house behind the firewall running a private pass I think is an excellent example of moving the notch forward so that the app velocity can increase. Yeah I think you know when EC2 first came out I watched the twitter feed pretty closely on it and the thing that I knew that would make Cloud Foundry successful a lot of people say oh I just spent the weekend setting up my database and my nginx like these are weekend projects right this is two day project setting up your environment to deploy an app to it was a significant commitment of time somebody's spouse was upset right you know go away I'm working on nginx and you know with Cloud Foundry you've got that stack ready to go you've completely pivoted where you're paying attention and it's not well known but a lot of enterprises have the same weekend project problem there's a whole process to set this up we talked to one account where developers had to go in and configure load balancing roles so you're a developer and you're focused on how to get your brand to market and all of a sudden you're thinking about oh I got to call the guy that runs the load balancer to get this out deployed there's so much opportunity to reduce that kind of what you call non-value at work yeah there's also a huge opportunity to reduce the the friction and I think what some of the guys at Heroku call the distance to production meaning that the whole system as it can run in production can run on your laptop and so when you're developing your laptop James is putting his app together he's actually very close to exactly what production looks like and so when he runs MicroCloud Foundry here you know it's not that there's a stub for Postgres, Postgres is running nginx is running, MySQL is running, Redis is running all of those services that you can potentially have in production are exactly the same here as they are in production and reducing that friction I think is a big deal too which public cloud is Cloud Foundry known to work on right now how about Joyant my understanding is it works already yes it is IAS agnostic meaning that the system itself was built to run on any IAS platform and there's examples of that with partners from RightScale running on AWS we actually ran it ourselves on Rackspace and Joyant I ran it on bare metal servers from new servers and of course we have a very tight coupling and binding to vSphere 5 and it runs very very well on there but the system itself is IAS agnostic and so anything from a single laptop to a virtual machine to pretty much any IAS provider that exists today it's run on I think that's an important point to make it doesn't have to be on VMware at all you can run it on Zen you can run it on OpenStack it can run on Solaris it works everywhere right what's interesting is the system itself is designed to take advantage of the IAS layer it's not coupled to it but it can take advantage of things so for example on vSphere 5 we can utilize things like vMotion and things like that to our benefit but on the Joyant side you can take advantage of that in terms of doing things around security or performance what about Windows well yeah it can work on Windows and that's how the .NET implementation is donated by PartnersWorks is that you have the agents running on Windows itself and they just communicate to the Linux based core components and the whole system behaves as normally when applications are deployed on Windows the basics of the system are that when an app is being deployed the system asks for help it says I need help to run this type of an app and with .NET it literally is that there's now something running on a Windows box that can raise its hand and say I know how to run a .NET app and the system didn't have to change it was just this one component that can raise its hand and say hey I know how to do that and the system goes great here's this app please run it for me the contributions that came back now there's a lot of heavy lifting underneath to make sure all the stuff works correctly especially in the Windows environment but at the architecture level that's as simple as it is it's really changed the block diagram of how you draw a system you used to say here's ports and connections and all these other lower level infrastructure concerns that you had and one of my favorite moments was when we were at Oskon and one of those banking architects ran up to us he said I never want my developers to think of a VM ever again because you've changed the concept of VMs and all of the problems there to applications and services and I think that's what's interesting and the reason you have to be multi-cloud the reason you have to be open source is that you can't really take over that layer if you're just a single Paz running in one place you can't be in the laptop you can't be in some data center in China you're never really going to become ubiquitous in the same way Linux is I mean to his point everything that Paz are trying to do balances fine line of being very very opinionated about certain things but also being very transparent and flexible and to James point what I think we're trying to do and I know we can always do better but we're trying to balance this we're very opinionated about how the system works and put stuff together but at the same time it's very transparent so it can be extended and changed by other people outside of VM work one thing I'm wondering about as well is what does this mean for system administrators system engineers should they be worried that their jobs are in danger because it's making things a little too easy you know I don't think so so for example let's say a typical corporation or business is set up where there's sysadman supervision virtual machines so they're the IAS provisioners they still have a role of saying what IAS resources am I going to give to this cloud foundry thing now let's say James is the app developer now all of a sudden he's actually interfacing with cloud foundry and hopefully all the ease of a platform as a service is there so he just pushes it everything just works and he can actually self-service if he wants saying hey I want to expand out my private past the IAS guys though are still the ones that are saying okay what are the correct bits that we need to run how do we actually want to set this up on the physical hardware how do we move things around and so I don't think it's changing as much as people think but things are shifting around we've been looking at DevOps a lot lately and we're going to launch DevOps angle shortly on our site so pass plays a big role in the idea of DevOps do you have any thoughts on where DevOps is going particularly with regards to cloud foundry you know I think if you can achieve a level of transparency such that the application developer can see all the information he needs to see to figure out what's going wrong that the basic trend of going to know ops is the best answer meaning that if the platform is truly doing what it's supposed to be doing and taking on a lot of the heavy lifting for you essentially you don't have to do anything you know you just deploy your app and it runs now of course there is this concept of hey I want to actually see what you're doing on my behalf this transparency that we talked about at the panel I think that's pretty critical yeah I mean I think one of the things that some of the DevOps tools don't do when I was at a conversation I had over drinks was hey when something goes down they don't respond and that's the difference between like DevOps and know ops is that cloud foundry at least has some basic response to failure built into the system certainly in the front end whereas you know if you've done really highly automated deployment you have to write your own logic sometimes still around doing that response if then this and I think Paz can help start to distance developers even further from that and that's one gap that exists today it almost seems like instead of helping developers and operations work more closely together though that you're just sort of making it so that developers never really even have to talk to you or think about operations once once it's their cloud foundry is spun up and they don't really ever have to think about it again potentially the way I like the way I like to envision it is is that everyone has a role in a job and the app developer in terms of how they actually want to develop their apps and push them on you know there's something to be said for the fact of hey my app is getting slow I want to know why and I'm happy to figure out all the way down to the very lowest spindle or SSD that doesn't have trim support what's going wrong but I might argue to say that for the most part if my app is slowing down I don't care restart it somewhere else where it's going to run fast now there's other people within the organization that have to say this drive is sick this box is doing something and so those tools it's not that they shouldn't go away it's just they have different audiences in my opinion we're going to take a break now thanks a lot for joining us yeah thanks