 even jog sometimes because of the horizontal force that happens with the hamstrings, whereas if you're just kind of pole going up and down, that's primarily quads similar to the acceleration phase of sprinting. So there's all these kind of little things that we can break down, like you said, to not challenge the local tissue in a specific way, but to challenge the global person. And that's where I kind of break it down into GPP versus SPP. And the strength coach managing the injured athlete has this GPP role, if they can create that and have that relationship where they can help the athlete with everything else. And then the medical rehab staff can help with more of the local tissue. And then as that athlete progresses more towards returning to sport, the local and the global combine, because that's when your number one goal is, okay, can they run full speed, change direction, et cetera, if we're talking about lower extremity injury. And that's where maybe the sport coach starts to get in on this too, if they can somehow help an athlete to take scout team reps or to do a 50% practice, that sort of thing. But that's challenging with some sport coaches too, they're like all or nothing. And the all or nothing mentality is like old school, man, we just don't have time for it anymore. It's not, they don't appreciate the nuance, they don't appreciate the, you know, the small details. And it's a lazy way of thinking. Yeah. And for those not familiar with what Teddy is talking about in GPP is the general face of the global aspect. And the SPP would be the therapist working on that specific tissue that's injured. And Teddy, we've talked about this a couple of times. In regards to technology, I have an athletic training background. And we've talked about assessing someone's ability and kind of the archaic ways of manual muscle testing where it's for those not familiar, yeah, it's great. Don't get me wrong. It has a purpose. But what typically is done is someone will press against your hand to make sure that the person's alive. That's really the only thing you can ascertain for a manual muscle test. Yeah. We're measuring essentially how strong isometrically you are into my hand and it's rated on a one to five scale, I guess zero to five technically, zero being not moving, I'd assume dead, like you said. And the issue is that if I were to say three versus four, that's a 20% difference. And so you've talked about the need for technology to be embedded into physical therapy and how it needs to not change it, but help guide the practitioner's decisions, right, augment them, not override. And I want to hear about maybe how you use technology. Where do you see the future of technology being used inside of the physical therapy setting, whether it's 3D motion analysis or force plates? And what specifically are you excited about I guess coming up or what would you hope to see in the near future? Man, I love this question. I love this question. So one of the biggest issues and there's a paper circulating right now where I don't know the numbers and the power of the study, so I don't want to quote it, but they said that I haven't read it yet, but 23% of athletes in this paper actually passed return to sport criteria for ACLs. So you do the math, 77% of athletes are not passing this return to sport criteria. The issue is that a lot of them aren't even put through this battery of tests to begin with. And so the issue that we have with return to sport testing is that oftentimes we just kind of ask the athlete, you good? And obviously they're going to say yes. We do some sort of kind of like gross strength testing with our hands or some arbitrary number like, oh, they can hamstring curl this now, but they could only do that before. And now they're doing the same, their 10 rep max is the same on both sides, whatever. And then we kind of put them out in practice. What we need is more objective data. And so I talk about this all the time, like you cannot just trust your eyes. The coach's eye is again another lazy way to not use objective data. And everybody has a coach's eye. We can't trust everybody's opinions. We're humans. We're simply mere mortals. And so the issue here is that we need more technology. And it's just not in physical therapy clinics. And it's not part of the curriculum. So like one of the one of the really helpful ways that we can judge single leg strength would be a single leg mid thigh pole. You know, and that's something that we could use an inline dynamometer and just look at kind of these gross differences from side to side. And I guarantee you a lot of people are a lot of athletes are out there playing with fresh ACLs that aren't even at 90% for a mid thigh pole from one leg to the other. You know, with ACLs, we have a battery of jumping tests and that sort of thing. Those are helpful certainly. But more technology is better as long as we're not as long as we're able to use the data points. If we get so much data that we can't use it, that's not very helpful. But so we've got kind of a mid thigh pole with an inline dynamometer, we can use a handheld dynamometer to measure isometric strength as well as eccentric or concentric strength if we can resist it. We can use a Kaiser air machine to measure power. So using the Kaiser air squat, or you could hook somebody up to a belt on the Kaiser on the functional trainer of the Kaiser and have them do some sort of power movement. We can use, you know, vertical jump mat g flight, that sort of thing to you to measure single leg vertical, vertical jump. And so these different technology points are going to allow us to better predict and kind of triage our return to sport decision making, you know, so that we, again, don't leave it up to our eyes and jump tests. Because one of the big things on jump tests is the movement quality. And we grade movement quality. You movement quality is not an objective measure. And we're, we're too far along the technology to still be using stuff like that. That is, it brings up, kind of opens a can of worms and I promise I won't work that too far into it. One of the things that I immediately think about is how useful would it be, Teddy, for you to get that athlete's baseline if the strength coach wherever they were had it prior to so they could then give you that baseline. So when you retest and continue to work with them, you know where to get them to where they were. Right. And that's one of the issues I see is the lack of a common thread. I think people go, Oh, you know, technologies useless, it could never replace a coach's eye. No shit. Like I'm not trying to. But please, please tell me right now, quantifiably, what your athletes, strength, speed and speed, strength qualities are and tell me their asymmetries between each leg. And you say, Oh, but that's not important. But I say, Okay, I get that. But if they get hurt, how do you know where they're back to where they were? Because you can argue to the world's end that you can never profile an athlete to understand the prediction of their success. And so people go, Oh, technology will never tell me if they're good. I said, You're right. It won't. But I can tell you where they were. And so it would give your Teddy so much more ammo to then get them to where they were. And imagine how effective that would be. So what you're doing is awesome because you're having this technology driven data driven approach to rehab. And then if we really want to bridge the gap, right, we can't have one side built with steel, another side built out of, you know, rinky dink wood of the same bridge, because we need to handle the same traffic. And so what you're talking about here and what you're doing and leading by example is, Okay, let's take that, you know, the data approach to measure progress, right? You said, I'm not trying to, you know, change my whole rehab because of it. I just want to know a little bit more to know if they're ready. I think if these two communities could really come together, if there are facilities where someone could go to and, you know, get that baseline and maybe you don't use it. And hopefully you never do use it. But I don't want to go to get my blood work from my doctor to tell me I need meds, right? We don't want that, but we still get our blood work. So I like the idea of having, you know, some sort of a movement of quality baseline. And we're talking about performance, longevity and health, that would arm you with so much more information. That's actually, I mean, that's a fantastic idea. And that's something that, you know, programs that have more funding and that sort of thing should definitely be looking into. And, you know, that's, there's, there are certain software companies out there that that are working with force plates and they're trying to predict injury and that sort of thing. And, and I think that some people are, they're taking it too far, just like with the FMS. It's very difficult to predict injury. But if we have these baseline numbers and we know how to help them recover from injury, that's incredibly powerful data. Yeah. And not to be horribly biased because I'm about to be right now and just shamelessly plug myself, right? That's kind of where our company exergo stemmed from about making portable and affordable technology to allow coaches to have access to this kind of information because it can be universally shared. And if we want to talk about the issues of HIPAA, because HIPAA then makes you have to sign a waiver if we're going to share, you know, this information at times HIPAA does more harm than good. We're talking about athlete wellness because it takes nine years to get someone's information that you needed, you know, five days ago kind of deal. But the idea of, again, having that technology to allow for assessment and baseline, it doesn't just give it vertical power in regards to, oh, I can measure their performance increase. That's horizontal because now it can talk to you. It can talk to their primary care. It can talk to all of us and create this common thread and language between us all. Yeah. It's very... I think there's a lot of future. Go ahead. And I think that there's a lot of future in technology and, you know, again, and like you said, it just comes down to price. And, you know, a lot of the stuff is extremely expensive. There's not a ton of people out there looking to buy it. And, you know, it's almost like this concierge approach to healthcare and only a few athletes or a select few get access to that sort of stuff. Yeah. And I think... I don't want to disregard this, too, because we talk about technology, technology, but it's so important to human side as well. Because I remember in my athletic training schooling that there's a famous ACL test. I don't remember who did it. I can't quote them. It was, they had to jump off a box and land. And the practitioner only looked at whether or not they hesitated to jump, right? They didn't actually look at the landing and the movement. They looked at the athlete's perception of their performance, their predictive perception. Are they going to pause before they jump? And you've talked about this in some of your previous posts and podcasts and writings. It's that human side we need to care about too. Technology is great. The human side where, you know, are they nervous? Are they stressed out? What are we putting on their plate on top of their injury already? If you could talk a little bit how you handle the... I think you referred to as the therapist side of physical therapy. That's the coach's eye, man. That's the coach's eye. That's the role of the coach. The role of the coach isn't to determine objective things with their eyes. The role of the coach is to connect to the person across from them and, you know, understand kind of what makes them tick and how they feel about their physical readiness, how they feel on a day-to-day basis, what's going on in their life. You know, one really easy basic thing that we use is called the ACL-RSI, Return to Sport Index. It's 10 questions. Each one has some form of kind of confidence or like understanding the effect that this is having on their life. One of the questions is, how frustrated are you by your injury? You know, 0 to 10. And we see that that stuff is pretty accurate. That ACL-RSI, we tell our athletes, we're like, look, please answer this honestly. There's no reason to fudge this. We see, we track this over time. And by the time that they're ready to go back, their RSI has looked that way as well. And it helps them. It's a form of therapy. It's not physical therapy, but it's a form of therapy because it helps them to start to think about what's really making, what's really upsetting them, what's getting to them, what's getting under their skin, and also helps them to really look forward and think about the future. What are they trying to get back to? And, you know, a lot of times athletes for kind of loose sight of that one month into their ACL rehab when they, you know, when they haven't run and their identity has basically been stripped from them. So the ACL-RSI is like an awesome tool. And you know what's cool too, Max, is like all of these subjective feedback type of things that coaches are using with their athletes now, like, hey, how hard was that workout? How did you feel this morning? Whatever. There's a lot of different ones. Those things are astonishingly accurate. Like we actually have a, we as in humans, especially if you're trained that way and you've, you know, you've had, you've had these ideas anchored by something so you understand what a hard workout is, what's not a hard workout. Once you go through those processes, we, we as humans do a pretty, pretty good job of judging how we feel on a day-to-day basis. And that stuff's extremely powerful. And so, you know, I think that using your, using your coach's eye and your coach's brain to talk and communicate and facilitate that conversation as a rehab, as a rehab practitioner is extremely important. And that's like something that I'm extremely passionate about. And it's, that has nothing to do with biomechanics or strength training. It's just about being a human. You know, you really connected all the dots there. And I don't want to give you too much credit because I'm not sure if you're having a pull-up. I hope to see you on the screen anymore. Think about how this conversation has gone. And we talk about, you know, prehab. We talk about making the, the, combining the bridge, you know, between strength or I guess creating a bridge, getting over the gap, I should say. There we go. I finally got it. Strength and conditioning. Between the two of us and our expressions here, and it's brutal. If you guys are still listening, thank you. Right. Physical therapy and transconditioning or creating that bridge. And we're, we're talking about like, okay, as a, first off, let's be flexible. Right. Because as humans, like you just said, we know very well. And if you were to take the program and just remove it and say, does this make sense? You know, logically as a human, I think that would solve a lot of the answers. And then you talk about, okay, there's certain things we can't measure. So maybe technology, but maybe I don't have technology. So I can use things like rate of perceived exertion. How hard was my workout today? So now you're starting to quantify this. And we put it all together. You have the flexibility. You have the prehab. You have the ability to be self-aware. You have the bridging, the gap between physical therapy and strength conditioning, and you're making it all fit together. Right. So it's this universal concept where all these systems are not isolated. They're really just one. And as, you know, the way our world works, we like to separate them. But really, if we just are intelligent about what we're doing, we take what we learned and apply those concepts in a flexible manner and then seek out ways we can better understand those concepts, the better our performance, our physical therapy, and all the above will be. So I mean, the way you kind of described it really pulled it full circle. Well, thanks, man. That's the idea here. You know, I think one of the slides that I like to talk about when I'm talking on this subject is it's titled Athlete-Centered Care. And I've got an athlete in the center and then all these different people on the outside of it. And it's like, who's going to kind of coordinate that? Who's going to put all these different pieces together? And I think oftentimes the physical therapist, or at least I kind of take that role, I think the physical therapist is in a good position to do so because especially early on in the rehab process, stuff is slow going and you have the opportunity to have better conversation with the athlete in a different way than you do in kind of a team coaching setting. So I think it's extremely important to be able to connect with the person because if you can't do that and you can't create buy-in and compliance, then none of this is going to work. This is always the time. And so I think that's like the number one thing really. And then we can get into all the other testing and all that. And I would argue that even if you were at a low budget place, you didn't have any technology whatsoever, if you have a really good rapport and communication with the athlete, you could make a pretty good judgment as to whether they're ready to go back or not. And I think that talking to people and assessing their confidence is so important. I love that idea of just looking at somebody and seeing if they're willing to jump off that box. I ask athletes all the time when we kind of hit a new phase of rehab, I'm like, was today harder than you thought it would be? Or how do you think you did? And I like to kind of frame it in, how did you think you were going to do versus how you did in that? And it gives me an idea into the inner workings of that athlete. What's their self-talk? Are they going home and being hard on themselves or are they feeling confident? And some athletes, they're really confident and they're not actually putting up a facade. That's who they are. Cool. We don't have to worry about it. Other athletes, it's like we really got to kind of build them up and point out the little victories and that sort of thing. And so, amen. It's all about the individual. Yeah. So I have two questions. They're not really related to the topic. We just kind of, they are and they aren't. And they're questions I've gotten repeatedly. And I guess I'll answer the short, ask the short question first in a long one second. The first one being, I get the question, Max, should I go in and see someone, whether it's a physical therapist, any individual at all, to get like a yearly, bodily checkup? I've heard people doing this. I've gotten the question before. And I think they ask it in a sense of not tell me what's wrong, but tell me or help me identify things that might be going on or could be going on in the future. So I can act now because, again, you're probably educated more than you're very well versed in this area. And so if I'm a general population, I might not understand my squat pattern, why my hip hurts. I might not think anything of it. And I've heard the idea of coming in yearly for a checkup. And I don't mean checkup like, I'm going to breathe and cough a couple of times. I'm talking about a movement checkup, right, where we're going to actually see things are functioning. I'm curious your opinion on that and how you would address such questions. You know, I've seen this floated as a PT advocacy type thing in the context of, you know, dentists see people twice a year. Why don't we do that? First of all, I don't think it's in the scope of most PTs and their training, because we're not taught how to assess healthy people. We're taught how to assess injuries and body parts. You know, in the same light that we mentioned earlier, you look at the research on the FMS, it doesn't predict injury. I would have a lot of trouble really advocating strongly for it. I do think that somebody like myself could definitely help in some athletes' self-management. So if I have like a young power lifter, sometimes I think the knowledge that I can impart on them in an hour is a lot more helpful than the hundreds of hours they've spent poking around YouTube and blogs. So I think that there's some value. I think there's value in having a relationship with a movement professional that you can come to to ask questions and you can come to maybe not when you're hurt, but when you have something that you're curious about. But I don't think a required or regular yearly checkup is always necessary. I like that approach. The answer I've kind of given is go to someone who's looking to facilitate. And what I mean by that is I think people are hesitant to say, oh, you know, I don't want to go here or there because they might, you know, sign me up for 10 sessions right then and there. And how I look at it, if you have a trusted movement specialist that you can see and they say, you know what, somebody's going on that foot, I don't know. You know, that's not my cup of tea. I want you to go see X, Y and Z. Maybe it's, maybe under your own interpretation, you say, I think it's something dietary going on based on our conversation. Go see this RD, I know. And so I like that approach, Teddy, we're talking about it's not go see a physical therapist, don't see it. It's not an individual entity, but seeing someone who's versed enough to say, okay, this is what I see. Maybe I'll just give you advice because you don't have to have something wrong, right? I think people are going like, oh, what's wrong? Like, you're fine. Like, you're good. But maybe we could advise them. I think you should get a personal trainer to actually, you know, watch over your form, assume me it's someone who's not as well versed in that area. And I like that idea that you kind of had there. I guess my second question kind of piggybacks off that. And it's a harder question for yourself, because you're in the field directly. And it's a question I get a lot. It's how do I find the right physical therapist for myself? You know, it's not one and done. I would say that the majority of the people that I work with have been to another physical therapist before me. And I think that you have to continue to shop around and know what you're looking for. And if the person's a good fit, you want them to have some sort of experience in or background working with and or personal experience in whatever activity or thing that you're doing. So you don't, your physical therapist doesn't have to trap our deadlift 600 pounds to help you with their deadlift. But if they don't know anything about that, if they've never worked with lifters, I mean, they're probably not going to be very helpful for you. So, so there are also, you know, some online kind of clinical athlete is is a an online resource that Quinn Hennick put together a couple years ago and with, you know, very well intent, very good intentions to kind of gather a group of physical therapists that kind of they pass the first test in my mind of do you give a shit? You know, if you're on that website, you're paying a fee. It's I think it's like 10 bucks a month. And you're purposely putting yourself out there. So you already pass that first question, like do you care? Because a lot of practitioners don't really, you know, they're just busy. And then you got to be willing to shop around, man, like I get I get this stuff all the time on DM and in comments, like I think somebody last week said, my physical therapist won't do any of this stuff with me. And I and I replied, Well, you're free to find another physical therapist and exercise your independence as a healthcare consumer. You know, like, it's not like you're married to that physical therapist. So I understand it's a pain in the butt to go meet new people find somebody new, like it's, you know, and then you don't even know if it's going to be the right one. But you shouldn't stay in a relationship out of comfort. It shouldn't stay with your physical therapist out of comfort. You know, so that's a great way of putting it. Because not one physical therapist is best for might not be the same that another is best for. I also think on that same coin, this a ton of times is have some patience to like, you're not going to be better in one. Like, it's physical therapy is be working hard effort. And I think at times it's great to shop around and don't give you I agree with you. But it's also, you know, give it a try, like, actually put in the work, evaluate yourself. Am I doing my home exercises they gave me? Am I actually giving it, you know, a shit about them? Like, am I trying? Right. Right. Answer no to those. And then you answer no to the fact you're not really paying attention or, you know, what else is going on or how your expectations. And maybe it's a self evaluation before it's a evaluation of physical therapist, because you're only going to get as healthy as you want to be. And I think you probably have seen that more times than not that's like, Hey, it's been two sessions. No, your ACL hasn't healed yet. I'm not a miracle worker. I apologize. I'm fortunate. But it's a process. And I think that's an important mindset to have. Yeah. And you know, there's a lot of different ways that you can approach an issue too. And so sometimes you'll get somebody who is kind of trying their own thing at the same time and not totally bought into what the PT is trying to do. And you know, it's it's not always like that's not always helpful either, you know, throwing, trying to kind of hodgepodge this this plan. So I think you really have to like you said, you really have to buy in and give it a fair shot. You know, and it's it's tough to find it's tough to find a good physical therapist if you are looking to perform at a high level for reasons that we spoke about earlier. There's just not a lot of pts like that out there. Yes. I mean, I agree. It takes a unique group to have that background of, you know, I'm trying to get back to elite performance. And it's it's someone who has to have multiple domains of experience because performance isn't pain. Like you said, it's not a manual muscle test of 505. It's very, very much encompassing. So I think the famous line is it takes a village to raise a child, right? It doesn't just take one person. You know, I'm sure Teddy you've spoken about too. It's not just you who's being the guy, you know, give him the performance to that person. It's that person's support system. It's who else they're working with. That's, you know, the sport coach obviously plays a role. Like they have to be on the right page too. And that whole thing has to fit together. And we're kind of it's getting a little long. I don't want to hold you up because I know you're out in the East Coast there. So I got some questions for you to help wrap this up. And first off Teddy, for people who, you know, if you don't follow him on Instagram, I'm not sure how you're listening to this podcast. But if you don't follow him on Instagram, his Instagram handle is strength coach therapy. But what other things or where else can we find you? Where can we listen to some of your talks? I know you're like a world traveler presenter, you're going around the globe. So if you're stopping by someone's neck of the woods, where can they find that? How can they reach out to you to possibly host something yourself? And thirdly, I think that's third, maybe fourthly. Lastly, I'll say, I don't know what number it is. Citizen athletics, I believe it's called, right? I want you to talk about that at the end. Look at that. That wasn't playing to people. That was Teddy's sweatshirt. He's got a citizen athletics t-shirt on. It's almost like he's getting ready for the swim dunk competition thing, so the guy takes off the jersey on top and he has a retro player. But I want you to talk about those three. So again, where to find more of you, where to hear from you, how to reach out to you, and then citizen athletics. Where to find more of me? So I'm doing, well, I'll just list a couple of events I'm doing this spring. UMBC is a local school here at University of Maryland Baltimore County. I'm going to be doing a talk there at their sports performance seminar coming up in June. That's June 1. I'll be out at Notre Dame at their sports performance seminar the third weekend of June. I'm not sure which day I'm speaking. It's a Friday, Saturday thing. So I'm doing some more kind of like strengthening, conditioning talks about managing injured athletes and that sort of thing. I also teach my own courses and so that's a two-day. It's typically a two-day course. I'll be in Toronto the first weekend of April. I'll be with Jacob Harden then. I'll also be out in Portland the first weekend of June. Sorry, the second weekend of June because the first weekend is University of Maryland. So if we have one-on-one, it's two days with me, with yours truly. And we go over all sorts of kind of expanding on what Max and I talked about earlier and these concepts of prehab and we talked about periodization and rehab and tons of case studies. And we go over a lot of unique exercises and ways to load people as well. Maybe not unique exercises, but unique ways to load and avoid pain. Other than that, I think the best way, I've done probably 15 or 20 podcasts, I'm guessing. I think the best way to find me would just be to Google my name and podcast. If I have my wits about me, I would have all of that gathered in one place. I'm actually in the process of working with a new website person because the old one didn't quite work out. So that's always a challenge as I'm sure you can understand Max, just the whole internet and where do you list all your stuff? Other than that, let's see. So you asked me about those things. Citizen Athletics is an online training company that I started with. My good friend and a very smart physical therapist and strength coach, Sam Spinelli. He's the strength therapist. But Sam and I started Citizen Athletics. We launched our first training program last August and it's an online training program. It's a monthly membership and it's just solid training. It's just well organized, well put together, videos for everything. You can message us through this system. It's like an inner circle because you can message us and hit us up and ask us some questions. Whereas I can't maintain a marriage and also sit at home at night on my DMs answering everybody's questions. So it's a way to prioritize my time a little bit and help people that are willing to help support me. So Citizen Athletics is awesome. I think it's a really solid training program out there that for, you know, sometimes we're up against these like Instagram models that don't have any business ready training programs. So other than that, man, I'm just traveling, teaching, you know, my new website should be launched pretty soon. That'll be TeddyWilsey.com and that'll have most of my like teaching travels type stuff on it. And for those of you less listening, Teddy's name obviously is spelled T-E-D-D-Y. That's Teddy. And last name Wilsey is W-I-L-L-S-E-Y. And for those of you watching or listening and not watching, I clearly read that off of a phone because I didn't want to butcher it. And so Teddy, we got your name up on here as well. It's been awesome to have you. Again, if you guys don't follow him, I don't know what rock you're living under, but go follow him, check him out. He does awesome work and, you know, he does an amazing job utilizing the G-Flight, no shameless plug there. Right. And it's great having you here because when you talk about performance, strength conditioning and all the above, it's very much a middle ground holistic approach. And so Teddy, thank you once again, really appreciate it. And it's kind of funny how this world works. We started off a couple years ago on Instagram and I've had Teddy Thursdays back when Teddy had nine followers and now he's up there and some millions of followers or something like that. I used to do a post every Thursday for you and I would always cite a research article in the post. Oh, those were the times. But it's been amazing to see him grow, his community grow, and rightfully so because he has, you know, the information that people need. And so if you have a chance, go check him out. If you're in the area to listen to him, go listen to him. He's a nice dude. He's a lot taller than I expected. I met him and I thought he was going to be like five eight and he was like six two and he's built like a, you know, a brick shit house. So caught me off guard on that one. But if you got a chance, go meet him. He's an awesome guy. So thank you once again, Teddy. Max, thanks for having me on man. This is awesome. And it's been a pleasure to connect with you early on and continue to connect. And it was great to hang out and train together in February. And I hope to do it again soon, man. Oh, you're always welcome, bud. All right. Take care. Thank you guys for listening. I really appreciate it and hope you guys tune in next time. Thanks.