 Because if you're doing it just for the sake of doing it, it makes no sense. By the way, when you're talking about... That's true. Yeah, stay there. Stay there. No, no, no, you said it. Thank you, mate. Thank you very much. OK, now you know where we're going. OK, OK, OK, OK. OK, so here we are back out on the streets here. We've got a sign here. It says Humane Slaughter is a myth. Prove me wrong. We're going to see if the public can prove me wrong. Let's do it. What are any of you? Corona shake. Do you want to come for a debate? OK, sweet, then. Sit down, my friend. What's your name? Z. Z. I'm Joey. Good to meet you. Nice to meet you. So basically... Yeah, so basically we've got a sign here. It says Humane Slaughter is a myth. Prove me wrong. Now, I'll just let you know a few things before we start. Yeah. There are ways to kill someone that are like mercy killing. So someone suffering, like if an animal is suffering, you can't help them. And you've exhausted your options. And the only option is like euthanasia. Then I would say that that's the most humane option. But I'm talking about killing animals for food, clothing, things like this. And how they say that we kill them humanely in slaughterhouses over here and in Australia and all this. I can test that. I don't think that's a myth. OK. Well, I think it's not the case everywhere. I mean, it can be a myth in aspects. But I think in terms of the general slaughter of animals for food, you're basing off, you said, Australia, right? You pick a place anywhere you want. OK, how about the UK? Yeah. OK, UK. Yeah, I'm very familiar with the UK. So let's talk about UK practices in slaughter. Can you sort of choose one and then we can talk about whether or not that's humane? Do you know much about the slaughter practices? To a degree, my grandparents own a farm in Zimbabwe. So I kind of understand it. I've killed animals for food before. And the first time I killed a chicken, to be fair, I was like eight years old. And we ate that chicken afterwards. I didn't eat chicken for at least a month, maybe two months afterwards. It didn't taste the same. Why? I'll be honest with you. It was the emotional aspect of it. Having killed the animal and the way it died as well wasn't like, I don't know if you're familiar with killing chickens, but there's an old tale when they say that when you cut it, its head has to be clean. And even then it can, you know, running with, what's it called? Running like a headless chicken. I've heard that expression, yeah. And that's because they still run around. Yeah, and that literally happens. I cut its head. It didn't come off cleanly. It was kind of hanging. And it just kept running. Well, we could talk about that if you want. Do you think that that was humane? I mean, that was me though. So that was physically, I was a child, don't forget. I was only eight, maybe, seven, eight. I would say you were less conditioned to eating animals then, maybe with your purest self back then. Yeah, yeah. So I think like having the mind that I had at the time, not ever having done it before, having eaten animals all the time, but yeah, killing it and then doing that, I couldn't honestly, I could not eat chicken for at least two months after that. It was so difficult. It was the emotional trauma of it, I think. But after that, I mean, I kind of got normalized to it again. I think the general perspective of human society is that we believe we have to eat animals to survive. I do understand that in my understanding anyway, I think the majority that we eat is 80% gluttonous. So we eat more to feel good as opposed to actually survival. Yeah, well, we do a lot of things that aren't for survival. I mean, we do things for our well-being and comfort as well. I mean, I don't have a problem with having a basic level of well-being, but when you're getting well-being from the suffering of billions of animals in a huge system built to slaughter them, then I have a problem with that type of getting that type of satisfaction. I get that. We're kind of getting off topic a little bit, because I want to keep this on, whether or not it's humane to cut an animal's head off. Because you're obviously sitting down because you don't think it's a myth. You think you can kill an animal humanely? You might not know about the slaughter practices here. I can talk about a few for you so you know. So there's gas chamber stunning, which is the main way they stun pigs. They stun them. So what they do is they force them into a chamber, and it gets dumped down into a dungeon filled with gas and CO2. And now the industry we're touting it as the most humane method. They just gently fall asleep. Cameras were left in there by activists. The animals thrash and scream and beg for mercy. They can rip their own trotters off, trying to escape these cages. And they suffocate and die. And what happens is the CO2 reacts with mucus membranes that will the wet stuff in your eyes and in your mouth and in your lungs. And it burns them. It burns them. You ever crack a can of coke in your eye? Yeah, you got that stinging feeling. So that's gas chamber stunning. Then they come out the other side. They stab them in the throat. It's really horrifying. I've got some footage here if you wanted to have a look. But like, we can, while I'm explaining the other ones, I'll just show you a little bit of gas chamber footage. So basically the other method would be like a bolt gun. You're probably familiar with the bolt gun. So they get a cow and put them in a knock box. It's like a small room. And they shoot them in the skull. Yeah, and then they'll stab them in the throat, drain them of their blood. Yeah, because they have to drain the blood out of their muscles. You're not going to eat meat that has blood running through it. So they, I mean, and then we've got chickens where they just run, they hang up by their little feet. And they run through an electrical bath. And then they run them through like a rotisserie blade on a big conveyor belt. So it just slashes their throat up. And sometimes they miss the electrical bath. Seen plenty of footage and exposés on that. And then like, so these are like some of the practices here in the UK. OK. Let's just look at what we've got here as humane slaughter. Very well researched. Yeah, well, that's my job in there. Here, this is blunt force trauma. They're smashing piglet's heads on the ground because they don't grow fast enough. Now, a red tractor approved farm in Leicestershire was recently exposed by Viva doing this. This here is in Australia, but they did this. You can look up the red tractor farm as well that Viva exposed. This is a gas chamber here. Is that one pig? So there are, there's a couple, a few of them. Yeah, it's easier to slaughter pigs like this because they're a bit, they thrash around a bit. Yeah. So if they're together, they're a bit calmer. The gas is at the bottom. Oh, yeah. So that's the gas being injected in now because they're struggling. The gas is at the bottom and they drop them down into it. So why are they doing all that? Because they're suffering. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. The China was scary. Yeah. Do you think, what do you think, that's the humane way to die? You know what, so there's two ways to, OK, in my opinion, there's two levels to this. OK, let me just pause this for a second. There's two levels to this. So if you're looking at it from a human construct's perspective, then I understand where you're coming from, definitely. But then if you take away the human element of morality and of time, for example, because other than the day, the only things, the things we value now in terms of morality is only due to time and education as time has gone on. You wouldn't have this opinion 20 years ago or 30 years ago. Most people wouldn't have this opinion 50 years ago. In fact, there's a lot of things we did say 100, 200 years ago that were immoral and we caught up, haven't we? Yeah, we caught up as time goes on. We should make that illegal, you know? Exactly. But I mean, as I say, that's human constructs. As we evolve as people, we change our emotional understandings of the world and around each other. So we kind of... Morality is a human construct, I agree with you. It's a subjective human construct. Do you think that means that it's invalid? When you're looking at it from a human perspective, it is valid, but then if you look at it from the grand scheme of things, it's not very valid. And it's really not, because if you look at it from an animal's perspective, whether they die or not, they're still dying regardless, whether it be painful or not painful, they're still dying, they're still gone. I mean, as a human being, how I die makes no difference. The fact of the matter is I'm still dying, whether it be painful or not. I don't believe you. Honestly, that's my... Like you're saying you don't care if you get executed before your time or you get to live out your life with a general amount of well-being till you grow old and see your children grow up. The way I see it, if that's the way I was supposed to go, it's the way I was supposed to go, I couldn't avoid it. There's nothing I could do to avoid that. You don't think therefore murder is justified, then, do you? I'm not saying it's justified, but that in itself is, again, a human construct. People kill each other, we do things with each other, animals do things with each other all the time, but it's not... We don't look at it as a perspective of, that's not right, the animal should have done that to the other, that lion should not have killed the other lion, they're both lions, why are they killing each other? They're trying to dominate an ecosystem, an environment. I don't agree with... Lions do things in nature, okay? But we don't navigate our morality by the actions of lions, you know? Like you don't walk down the street and just punch people in the face for no reason. Like, why don't you do that? Because it's a positive and negative way of thinking about things. Doing something like that is a negative... You care about humans' rights, don't you? Of course, of course. You care about the rights of people and... Yeah, like, well, I do, and I care... I do. Yeah, and I care about animals should have not the same rights, but at least the right not to be tortured and killed or executed in mass bread. But why do you think that, though? Because, I mean, you're saying that as if they have some sort of intelligence. And some sort of intelligence. They have sentience. Do you know what sentience is? What's your understanding of sentience? Well, let's just talk about sentience. Like, sentience is the ability to experience reality. And then you can talk about consciousness, like awareness, self-awareness. But how do you know they're sentient? How do I know you're sentient? Because I'm speaking to you, interacting with you. You can hear my emotional outlays as well as the knowledge that I've accumulated over time. You can communicate that you're sentient to me, but you still can't prove it to me. So how are you proving that these animals are sentient then? Because consciousness comes from the brain, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we have a brain and animals have a brain. Do you agree? Ants, yeah. Ants have a brain. They might have a tiny, tiny little brain, yeah. I mean, I'd still say, like, it's really a debate, a topic of debate whether or not all insects are sentient. They might have a mild amount of sentience. I mean, bees, you could start arguing. But like, with pig, I mean, the debate is off the table. It's scientific consensus that. Is it the fact that they're being killed that you're recognizing the sentience and that they should not be in that bracket? Because if we could live off ants, for example, there's not really any good or bad. Do you have any good or bad rate of killing ants and eating ants? We can talk about that. But I just want to stay on the topic whether or not, like, you believe that a pig is conscious because you're acting like that you don't know or you're a bit unsure whether or not I've done it. I've lived on a farm for years. I've lived around animals, cows, pigs, all of that, bros. I've been around them. I've lived that life. So, like, for me, where you're coming from, I understand it, but I think you're kind of basing it more on a, I think you're focusing more on the emotional aspect of being a human being, looking at death, as opposed to the very fundamentals of survival. Well, I understand they're being killed. We're not trying to survive here, me and you, right now in the UK. Like, we've got to pretty decent. We've evolved a lot more. We've gone to the supermarket right now and bought some vegan stuff. I don't know. That's because of our... Yeah. ...of aggression. And we're civilised now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, there was lots of things happening back then. 50 years ago, different situations. People were enslaving each other. There was, like, horrible things going on back then. I know. I understand that. So, like, now, like, now we've got this opportunity freedom of, like, to choose in the supermarket. You know, other people like tribesmen, they might not have the freedom of choice that we have here in civilisation, but we can go on the supermarket, buy some fruits and vegetables, get some tofu, get some vegan stuff. Do you disagree that these animals are conscious beings having a subjective experience? Do you think animals can feel pain? I think anything can feel pain. I think any animal can feel pain. OK, that's better. Any animal can feel pain. OK, so if they're not sentient, how can they feel pain? So you're... So, OK, sentient... How can they feel anything if they're not conscious? What does sentient actually mean? OK, you know, have you ever been knocked out? I've been knocked out a few times. Once I've been knocked out, once, yeah. Do you remember when you were knocked out? What happened? In that moment, yeah, I just blacked out. Well, then you've lost your sentient. You've lost your consciousness, then. OK, but I'm still living being, aren't I? You're still living, but you're not conscious. OK, animals... If the fact that there's no thought in that moment... You see how you're experiencing this reality right now? Yeah. Yeah. So you're understanding, OK, OK, OK, OK. So why is it any different, then, for a pig? Exactly. Well, you just asked a question for me, then. Human being, that's what's OK. There are differences between us, you know. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'd say that, you know, human beings are a lot more complex animals and, you know, we're doing amazing things. And, you know, but a pig, it might be a little bit more simple. More of a child-like mentality. So pigs are the intelligence of, say, a three-year-old child. They are sentient conscious individuals. They're more intelligent than dogs in scientific research. So the science is not on your side there. There was a thing that came out called the Declaration of Consciousness, the Cambridge Declaration of Consciousness, giving animals like consciousness in this big thing. They all signed together. Fisher even sentient and conscious individuals that can feel pain and display intelligence and all of these things. So basically, I was just trying to get you to come to the realization yourself, like, because they can experience reality, because they can experience suffering, well-being. Why the hell are we mass breeding these conscious individuals? How do you know that, though? How do we know that? That's my question. How do you know that? It will prove to me that you're conscious. Prove to me that they are conscious. Well, we can with research. We can see that they experience... So when you... They experience not just stimuli. So, like, if they can... They react differently to pain. So, like, a pig might limp on their leg if it's hurt. There's any animal. That's it. So there's... Okay, there's... And you? Like, you limp on your soul? In terms of you, honestly. So conscious... So even if it's sentient, yeah. There's a level of sentience. Then there's a level of sentient intelligence. So you can only... You can be sentient and experience only two emotions, pain and, let's say, happiness. Well, they have a very complex behavior. They have... They... How do you know that? That's my question. Where you... How do you know... The same way I know that you're conscious. But that you know that because of the fact that I can literally communicate to you. Animals can communicate to us. Okay. Did you hear those pigs screaming when they're in the gas? What does that tell you? You only have two... In terms of animals, you can only get two levels of communication, either pain, screaming, or nothing at all. You know what I'm saying? So like, how are you... That's what I'm... How are you gonna... Why can you train a pig to do things? But even in that training, though, do you're not getting anything... What are you getting from training an animal? A dog, for example. What are you getting from that? I'm saying that that proves that they are experiencing reality more than just pain and pleasure, two emotions. Yeah, but then... It's more complex than what you're saying. But then you can also train, for example... You can train anything to a very basic level. Can you train a cucumber? Can you train a cucumber? It's not a living thing. Once you cut it from its plant, once you cut it from its... No, a cucumber is a living thing. They're not conscious, but I'd say they're living. Once you cut it away from its... Roo, it's no longer living. It's essentially just there to be digested. Tell, like, a tree what to do? Supposedly people talk to trees. They play music for trees and it changes the outset of the tree and things like that. I've heard of experiments, but... They're paranormal studies. I don't know how legitimate those ones are. The same way with regards to what you're describing about sentience is only because time has gone on and we can understand that they're sentient. 50 years ago, there weren't any experiments that we could have done to understand the sentience. Now there is. Hurt an animal? Tell me how they respond. Yes, now there is, because we have gained that understanding supposedly based off what you're saying. How about you find a deaf mute person, okay? Now you're just going to assume that they're conscious, aren't you? Mm, deaf mute person. That can't communicate their consciousness to you. Like you said to me, you can communicate it to me. It's the reason we can do it because you're physically looking at human beings so you can naturally assume that they have sentience. So what do human beings have eyes? We have a mouth, nose, ears. We have a skull with a brain in it. Exactly. We have a heart and organs. Exactly. And we walk around and we breathe. Okay, now all of these can be attributed to animals. Pigs, cows, chickens, fish. So why don't you give them the better for the doubt but you'll give, say, a deaf mute person who can't communicate. As I said, we'll apply to an ant. We step on ants how many times a day? Millions of them per day. Why are you separating an ant to a pig? Okay. Yeah. Why do you separate an ant to a human? I step on ants all the time. Why don't I just go out and massacre a bunch of people? So we separate a pig from a human then? I mean, to be honest, the lines... I separate you from a child. Yeah. So I'll say like, okay, if there's an infant there, I'm going to treat you differently to the infant. Okay? Yeah. So a pig, like I'm going to treat a pig a little bit differently. But why are you treating it like that? But I wouldn't execute them. It's your choice, isn't that right? Well, I would say because out of my moral system, it says that I believe... And you're understanding of sentience. Yeah, I believe that they experience reality. Okay. So I don't want to put them through suffering or execute them for a needless meal, like a piece of bacon when I can make different... Climbing us. Yeah, yeah. So like, yeah, we're going to step on ants and stuff, you know, and then we can't live without causing zero harm. Yeah. That doesn't give us moral justification to go and abuse and kill dogs and pigs and other people. And, you know, we still have our, you know, some type of moral system that accounts for... Yeah. But the main issue, okay, the main issue behind the whole animals being killed to such a wide... to such a degree that you understand it to be, is because of money. This is purely just for McDonald's and KFC and all these other businesses to generate a lot of finances and money. But us as a general people, we don't really... We digest food. When you go to the supermarket and you buy, like, some chicken wings or whatever, or, like, a steak. It could be from the same kind of... Yeah, yeah. You're supplying that demand. You're demanding that they supply you with butchered animals. So this is what, you know what a vegan is, right? Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. It's basically a boycott of those industries and funneling your money into industries that don't mass breed and execute animals en masse. Yeah, definitely. My friends are vegan. I mean, I've debated it on it a few times. I understand completely we don't need to be eating animals. I understand that. I understand that. We, at one point, were only eating meat because of the fact that they produced this protein for us and they helped us to have energy on a daily basis. At some point. At some point, yeah. Doesn't that be the case now? Yeah, I understand that. People used to use other people too without their consent back then. Cannibalism. Yeah, crazy. Cannibalism, slavery, all these horrible, horrible things. It's... Yeah. And they still do it to this day. You know, they're doing it, human slavery still exists. And it's just, like, just because we did it, doesn't mean we should but I do understand that. I do understand that. And I think what you're doing is, I think what you're doing is correct. You're right in what you're doing but you are going to get into, like, people like myself, I get where you're coming from. I resonate with it. I've been there. I've had to kill an animal. So have I. At the same time. I've killed animals too. Oh God, fair enough. Yeah. But you know, I understand that it's a human construct at the same time to a degree, like our understanding of pain for me personally, this is just me. This is just me personally. But when I think of death, for example, I don't think of it as being the beyond-endal. And I don't think of it as being something that I have to fear. Yeah. That doesn't mean you should take someone's right to life away just because you don't believe. That's not my right. That's not my right. So what about the animals? What about the animals? So what about the animals? That's not your right? That's not. No, no, no. Well, to be honest, that is, as I say, a human construct. So if that person is killing that animal, they think they're right in doing it because they're feeding someone. I can't. That animal, though. But that's where the issue is. How are you understanding the rights of, like, for an animal, if you think about animals, they've been through thousands of years of being slaughtered. If anything, over time, I wouldn't say to the same degree. Of course, there hasn't been an atrocity like the animals have faced in the human context. It's just, animals outnumber us. The amount of animals that are killed in four weeks outnumbers the amount of humans that have ever existed on Earth. Yeah. But that's, so like, okay, this is going to sound a bit. Mad. Mad, but I think a lot of animals over time get conditioned same way as human beings. We have memories in our DNA, right? Things that we pick up in our DNA that carry over to our children, the children, children that are naturally there. So like, animals, for example, you're talking about pigs and cows. These are probably the most cultivated animals in history that are being used to kill and eat for those benefits. So if anything, these animals, I'm not saying but potentially may have been desensitized to that entire idea that you believe is being pain. Oh, really? So what you just saw then was actually just, well, what were they doing then when they were suffering, screaming for their lives? Well, as I say, that's an understanding. No, what were they doing? What were they doing? Well, just for, I was curious. No, it didn't look nice. It didn't look nice, but what I'm saying to you is these are processes that have been there for anything. I'm pretty sure we've been killing animals for like, maybe what? My understanding. It's probably going into like a million years, millions of years, but like, I think we've been, we haven't been alive for a million years. I think 250,000 years, humans have been there. There was like, Neanderthals and like, you're going on to like, you know, Paleolithic areas. Well, actually, no, I think even with them, it was a lot of plant-based, you'd be surprised, there's a lot of plant-based. But we've been killing each other for just as long. It's a logical fallacy, what you're saying, like we've been doing it for ages. I know, I know, I know. And that's why I'm saying it, it may sound a bit weird or, you know. It's illogical because it doesn't dictate morality, what we've done in the past. It's a human construct. Of course it is. It's a human construct. We should adhere to it though, though. Yeah? That's why you don't go around punching people in the head for cutting in line at the supermarket. True, true, true. But then I, you know, like, there's been situations where people kill people and they have no justification why they did it That is called murder. And if I was to walk up a person, you put that person, you put that person under a scientific test, lie detector, and you find out why he did it. Sometimes you find the odd people that don't understand why they've done something. So it may have just been coded into them. Who knows? Well, you know why you're paying for, like, you know you're paying for animals to be butchered and killed and often tortured and most pigs in the UK are factory farmed, most chickens in the UK, the vast majority are factory farmed and they're being executed in slaughterhouses and you pay for that. You know what you're paying for. How do you know? As a human being, you don't know for sure every bit of meat you're buying has been slaughtered in a certain way. You don't know. That's the only problem. You choose the way of slaughter. This is what the whole debate is about. I believe humane slaughter... No, I want you to choose the most humane way to kill an animal. Humane slaughter is a myth. I don't believe it exists. If an animal wants to live, they desire life, like you desire your life. A pig might desire their life in a certain way and they don't want to be murdered because they run from being executed, trust me. If you were to take their life against their will, that can never be humane. What's will though by a human construct? Well, they have a will to live. Animals have a will to live. You can test that will too and it's easy to test an animal's will to live. Okay. How do you test it? You don't see like animals going around committing suicide, do you? They avoid pain and suffering. They have survival built into them. They are sentient. They want to... They eat. They didn't just lay there and starve and die. And if you put a knife to a dog's throat, they will run away and cower. Like I put a knife to a pig's throat, they'll run away and cower. Cows try to escape and knock box all the time. They have fear. They don't want to die. They suffer. But even if they are suffering, they live through it because they want to survive. You know, like there's heaps of things that show that animals want to live. It's just the same way like... Do you know that the human brain has a... Do you know... Okay. There are a few people in the world, not a lot of them, but you know, there are people in the world that have this condition in their brain where it reverts to a very survival, very basic survival instinct. And it can happen over a year. It can happen for five minutes a month. It can happen over for their entire lifetime. But there are few people in the world that have this condition. It's some sort of syndrome. You can Google it, but it's there. Now that... What it does to these people is they revert away from all their worldly functionalities, their family functionalities, the feeling of love, the feeling of happiness fully down to survival only. They don't live at home. They don't eat the basic things we eat. What they'll start doing is they eat things like coal. They'll eat dirt. They eat plants. And this can happen for an untold amount of time. It depends on the person. Different people with different amounts of time. What are you... Are we staying... Look, is this going to tie back into Schumann's slaughter? I'm tying into that right there. So, if you're talking about survival as an animal, if you think about... We're talking about the will to live. But you're basing this, as I keep saying, as a human construct of an understanding based off your emotions as a human being. It's logical and it's scientific. It's logical because we're human beings. Do you believe in science? It's ill to logic. I'm a serious question. Do you believe in science? I do. So you believe in testing things out and researching and understanding reality? These are things we've created to stand a justification to your opinion. Well, science is not something you create. It's a tool to use to find out about reality. The science you're talking about changes every day. For example, physics, geography, understanding of the world, changes every day. So your opinion... What I'm trying to say to you is your opinion right now is your opinion right now. But as time goes on, your opinion will evolve as we get more educated and the world evolves and the human construct of your understanding of a sentence will change. We know right now, right, that animals are conscious. I know right now that you're conscious. That could change in the future. We might get a study that says that you're not and then we can kill you or whatever. But do you have a problem with people being cruel to dogs and things like that? Because if you're doing it just for the sake of doing it, it makes no sense. By the way, when you're talking about... That's true. Stay there. Stay there. No, no, no. You said it. Thank you, mate. Thank you very much. OK, now you know where we're going. OK, OK, OK, OK, OK. Why are you buying bacon? OK, OK, OK, OK. You're good at this, aren't you? You know what you're doing. All right, cool. Bacon. I don't really buy bacon if I'm honest. Why are you buying animal products? OK, let's be broad. Because I'm not trying to go hungry. OK, but I'm not hungry, brother. OK. I'm not going hungry, man. I've been vegan six years now. I'm not used to vegan food. OK, so does that morally justify executing billions of animals? No, but it's my choice. It doesn't mean that. It's your choice. Is it a moral choice? It doesn't mean that what I'm buying necessarily is implicating that more animals are being killed in your main way that you're speaking about. To my understanding, right? I think it's all... I think humane slaughter is a myth. Anything in general. Exploiting and killing animals cannot be done humanely. Well, then... you're going to have a tough... I'll be honest. I get it, but... You know, 70% of the animals in the UK are factory-farmed. And when you take it, so that includes cows and lambs. But when you take it down to pigs and chickens, OK, you're talking chickens 95 or over percent of chickens are factory-farmed, living horrific lives. And then they're all executed in a slaughterhouse. And pigs, you're talking over 90% of pigs are factory-farmed. They don't see outdoors. So I've been inside of these farms here in the UK and they're horrible. So where are you buying your chicken and pork from? Humans taking advantage of lesser beings has always been part of history. What is that? Yeah, but what does that mean? Is that like a moral justifier? No, I don't know. It means exactly what I said. Yeah, but like... And it's never going to change. Humans have taken advantage of other humans as well, man. And we still do. It's never going to change. So to be honest... You can change your behaviour. I definitely can. I definitely can. I agree. I don't expect in any way whatsoever for the world to change in the same like terms. That's why you're a smart guy. You don't seem like a fully violent, psychopathic killer. You seem like a chill and that. You can make a choice right now to end your contribution to something that you may or may not find immoral. But I think you do because in the dog context you kind of hit the nail on the head there. But like, I'm not asking everyone here in the world to change and I don't know if that's even, you know... It's kind of a utopian idea right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, I'm just talking on an individual basis like you. Right now go on the supermarket. You're paying for chickens and pigs and cows and fish and I don't know what other animal products you're eating. Often treated crawling. But if you put it in your terms then yeah, you're 100% right. Any... Any... Killing a banana ball isn't your name? Yeah, and it's like there's suffering and there's no other way. Like if you were suffering and you said, bro, euthanize me. I can't go on like this. There's no way out. I'm going to be suffering for the next eight years and they can't find a cure and this is painful and they can't find a painkiller for me or something. You know, like mercy killing is an exception. But that's... This is pleasure killing what we're doing to them. Yeah, yeah. And the only reason we can't understand animals is that to that degree. And even then, even if... We have. We do. You don't. But the scientists have... But the science in itself like the science... I mean, you can argue with the... I don't like science. I don't know. I just... I understand science but it changes too much in my opinion, bro. Like science... I think it's good that we understand the animals feel pain and the conscious, you know. It will keep evolving. It will keep evolving and changing and our understanding of animals will become more advanced and our understanding of animals was a lot more than what it should be in 10 years' time. Oh, no. Oh, no. But I understand what you're saying. But for now, you don't want to walk up and step on that pigeon and watch them suffer for ages and die. Because that's pointless. I'm not going to eat that pigeon. Yeah. So it's pretty pointless. Well, if you're going to eat them, you would then think that that stepping on this pigeon and watching them suffer and die was okay? No. I wouldn't do it in that way though. Okay. How would you do it right now? There's a pigeon there. No food. No other food but that pigeon right there. Let's check out Pidgey Smalls over here. That's a flying rat though. Oh, they're all right. They're all right. That's speciesism. Do you know what speciesism is? Yeah. When you look down on a species. Yeah, you look down on a species. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a pigeon. It's a rat. What's a rat? Well, rats are cool. Intelligent. They feel pain. Pigs are cool. I hate when people call cops pigs because why would you like especially corrupt cops that are arseholes? Why would you call like an innocent animal? Yeah. You know what I mean? We hurt pigs. I gotta put that. We hurt pigs. Yeah, yeah. We're gas chambering them by the billion. Yeah. How dare we, you know, label a human a pig when we're the ones being able to, you know, pigs. Yeah. But anyways, bro, let me give you a little I've got some information for you anyway. Yeah, hit me up. I appreciate the chat because that was interesting. I didn't expect you to go like... But yeah, we agree. Morality is a human construct. No, I do. I don't care. Like that doesn't mean it's invalid. Yeah, yeah. We have it for a reason because like if we lived without morality, it would be mayhem. So like... No, you're 100% right. Laws and rules, that's why they're there. I get you. We want to do what we want to each other, man. No one's going to do anything about it. That's very true. That's very true. This has got a couple of doxos in there. It's got places to eat. Oh! Places to shop. What you can replace. Oh! That's pretty good, man. Yeah. You can get all your vegan options now. Yo, that's pretty smart. I'm going to lie. That's pretty smart. I like that. I like that. Thanks, man. It's one thing to tell people that something's not, you know what I mean, but then you should actually give them the... The know-how. Actual know-how. Yo, I like that. I respect that. We should know why we're doing it though because otherwise you're not going to be motivated. No, definitely. I like... Yo, thank you, man. I appreciate it. That's nice. Z? Z, yeah. Good to meet you, man. Hi. Hi. Hi. I just wanted to say like six months ago, I came across our videos. I was vegetarian for about two years, and then I was like, right, I've got to go vegan, so I've been vegan for about six months. Oh, yeah. And just, like, the thing is, because the reason I went vegetarian was for the animals, but I'd say the dairy industry was more hidden, isn't it? Like, in what it does. Yeah. So if you eat in a cake, you don't see flesh, deer, you just... But, yeah, your videos really inspired me. So I'm like... Oh, wow. What's your name? Tilly. Tilly. Nice to meet you, Tilly. Nice to meet you, yeah. Yeah, nice. Really cool. How long you've been vegan six months now? Yeah, six months. Okay. In school, there was nothing for me to really have. How old are you? 16. 16. Yeah. So, yeah, there was nothing in school for me, there was nothing vegan at all. Yeah. Except for you. Yeah. Just for you. I, like, did a petition thing to get some vegan meals. Oh, cool. So they got in touch with me and said that this year there's going to be some vegan meals in school. Good work. So, yeah. That's fantastic. Thank you. Good work. Say hi. No worries. Really good to meet you. Yeah, you too. Keep up the amazing work. Thank you. Take care. See you later. Bye. That was an interesting debate. He had my work cut out for me there, right? Um... Yeah. I don't know. How do you know? Like... I really... I thought he was a cool guy, though, like I really like talking to him. When you start saying, but how do you know science is right? How do you know animals are sentient? How do you know they're feeling pain? How do you know that's just not an expression of evolution? And, you know, that's when, you know, come on. Oh, yeah. April, I have. I have it with her. So... She cares about you and she knows about you. She knows about you. She knows about you. So... She cares about you and she knows that you're against animal cruelty. She cares about the animals. Because she cares about me. It's because she wants... She's like you. She wants everybody to be a vegan. So the animals don't get tortured and killed. There's a reason behind it. It's not just her ego talking. Well, I know it's not it. But she used to absolutely love me. She used to eat...