 Alrighty, I guess we'll get this show on the road. Bonjour et bienvenue, welcome. My name is Adrian. If you're in this session and in this room with me today, we're gonna be talking about how to generate traffic and build an audience without spending any more money on ads, which is always nice. I wanna thank you for taking the time to spend the next 45 minutes or so with me. I know there's other things you could be doing today. We're all business owners or we're working in a business. We're all very busy. I just wanna say that I'm appreciative and I hope that over the next 45 minutes, I'm gonna make your time worth it. That's the idea anyway. Feel free at any point to just drop a question in the question bar here. I have everything open and let's just get it on the road. If you wanna generate more traffic to your site, build an audience of engaged followers and earn more money from your new projects, you are in the right place. We're gonna be talking about some ways we can do those without spending a ton of money and making some mistakes. And I'll get into some of those things that I made that hopefully you can avoid. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Adrian. I help small businesses and agencies adopt proven digital marketing strategies with results driven software, a couple of the products that we make for the WordPress community are listed there. Our products have won a couple of awards and we've been nominated for some stuff here in Canada as well. I'm personally in Niagara Falls, by the way. This is where Camp Montreal. So I'm also Canadian, so that's kind of cool. Native to Brantford and then was in Toronto for a bit and now I'm in Niagara Falls. We're in wine country, so that's kind of cool. If you've ever been to Niagara Falls, you can just let me know in the chat there. And before I was doing this, I've been doing this since about like 2015, growing these product companies in the WordPress community before that digital marketing agency doing lots of web design builds for literally hundreds of companies here in Canada and in the United States and then training thousands more with some of the stuff that I'm gonna talk to you about today. So if you're currently working on a WordPress project or maybe you have an idea that you want to start or maybe you even have a client who you have just taken on and you want to start generating some new traffic to that project, one of the ways that some people might think at least a shortcut to that would be to spend a whole bunch of money on Facebook ads or Instagram ads, Google ads or whatever. That's sort of like our initial things. Like, hey, let's just throw money at the problem and hopefully that solves it. And that's exactly what I did in 2018. I had just started making Groundhog, which is our primary breadwinner software company. And I had no clients. I borrowed some money from my grandfather and I spent 3,000 of it in 30 days on Facebook ads and generated absolutely zero ROI on that investment. And that was not fun. So this was actually one of the ads that we ran. It's a bunch of money in the toilet because we're like, hey, you're wasting money elsewhere. And if you, basically the whole pitch was like, if you come spend money with us, you're not gonna be flushing your money down the whole toilet. There's a lot of reasons why this ad didn't work in terms of copy and positioning and presentation and whatever, but there were some other like core components that we skipped in the sort of development of the business in terms of marketing and positioning and brand voice. And there's all these things that we didn't do. So what not to do when you want to start generating traffic for a new business or a new project that you have or a new client that you have, is you don't wanna have sucky ads. One of the big mistakes that we made, one spending a bunch of money on ads was that we had no social proof to sort of back up the claims that we were making. We could, if people bought and they tried, it's not like we were lying, but we didn't have any other people saying that we were telling the truth. And so there was no social proof to sort of back up the claims that we were making on ads. We have bad targeting, that's another one. Before you have any customers, you go in and you start creating like your custom audiences and you start trying to figure out, well, who's actually going to be a good person to buy this product and you end up picking a bunch of topics or a bunch of interests and maybe geographic locations. That didn't work for us, so we had really bad targeting. And we had poor product market fit. We just didn't really know who we were selling to and we didn't know who to target. And so we had a sucky ad that didn't have any social proof that was being targeted towards the wrong people with already poor product market fit. This is a perfect storm to waste money. And this is going to happen to you unless we build a foundation of which you can then go ahead and actually spend money that gets invested wisely and produce results. I like to think of spending money on pay-per-click advertising with Facebook, with TikTok, with Instagram, with Google as pouring gasoline on a fire. But if there's no fire, then you're just dumping good gasoline on the ground. It's just a total waste. I like to think of it like that. So we need a foundation, we need fire going. And over the course of the next 30 minutes, I'm going to show you what I personally did and what I recommend to all people who are starting a new thing should do in order to generate that foundation which you can then go and spend money on. So the first thing we need to do is we need to have an ideal customer for your product or service. And we need to know things like where they live. We need to know how old they are. We need to know what their position is in an organization. We need to know where they spend their time. And there's more questions in addition to this that I think are important to ask. We really want to get incredibly detailed and granular about it. And we want to sort of a complete profile of a person who would make a good customer for us. This is someone who might spend a lot of money with you. This is someone who might be a long-term customer, a recurring customer. This is someone who requires a minimal amount of effort on your behalf to deliver on a product. Things like that, those are things that we want and we need to know the exact traits that build a person that makes that person that we want. I'd love to do a more in-depth dive into how to build an ideal customer. Unfortunately, we just don't have the time. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to put in call to action here, build customer profile. Hopefully you can see that this is an article which is essentially the long format version of this presentation. I recommend that at the end of this presentation, you go read that and that's going to break it down a lot more granularly, give me some more questions to answer and sort of fill out some of those spaces that we're taking a little bit of shortcut on. So go do that. But essentially, we want to start asking these questions about who are we selling to? Why are we selling to them? So that when we go back and start designing and writing copies for our ads and targeting, we actually know who we're after. Write it down on a piece of paper or whatever. So like for example, if you're selling travel insurance, you probably want people who are enjoying traveling. That's kind of obvious. You want people who can afford to travel less obvious, have time to travel again, less obvious, people who are risk averse and safety concerned. That might lead you to think of people who has time to travel. Maybe people left over the age of 65, people who could afford to travel. Again, people over the age of 65 risk averse, safety concerned, people over the age of 65. And that gives you that age number. And then you want to start thinking about is where do those people hang out? Where do they live? And then you can go place yourself in those areas where those people are. We're going to get into that a little bit more. But this is why having this poor picture about who is your ideal customer is going to answer some of those questions and enable you to do more advanced targeting, not only with your copy, but with your ads as well. Now you may be concerned, and this is a lot of the resistance that I get when I tell new people who are maybe new to this concept, is well, if I write all my copy for one sort of ideal customer, I'm going to be excluding people who my product would also work well for. That is a totally natural reaction to this. When I learned this, I was introduced to the concept of the halo effect. I didn't invent that. I think Dan Martel actually coined this specific term. It would exist in much of the literature anyway. But basically the halo effect is that people, if you think of your ideal customer as like a Venn diagram and they're in the middle of that Venn diagram and you have all these other sort of like outer circles branching off from that, those people in those outer circles are going to buy anyway, because they're going to see people who are in the middle, that's your ideal customer, they're going to see them being successful and be like, well, I'm like 80% of that, so it's going to be successful for me as well. So don't be too concerned about getting too specific or too niche. I mean, if you're only going to send, sell to people whose birthday is May 16th, then maybe that's not a great idea. But if it's niche enough, but broad enough that you're getting lots of those overlapping circles in that Venn diagram, then those people will buy anyway and you don't necessarily need to worry about getting too specific or too niche with your ideal customer profile. And once we have that, the idea is to essentially become a food truck. Now, the concept of a food truck is that food trucks go where the people are. They go where hungry customers are. They go outside of ball parks and stadiums and parks and busy roads and the finance districts of cities and they're basically anywhere hungry people can be found. They're mobile. They go to where their customers are. And I think that's a pretty smart business model. And what really worked for me is that when I had no customers, I became a food truck and I started going where my customers were, looking at our customer profile. My customer profile for Groundhog is like agencies, marketing agencies specifically that like to work with WordPress, you know, we're a WordPress plugin. So that's sort of baked in. And so where do agencies that work with WordPress hang out in like maybe like the post status slack at WordCamps in Facebook groups, that's a really big one for a lot of the WordPress agencies. What other products do agencies that work with WordPress use? Maybe like WooCommerce or Elementor, Lyft or LMS or LearnDash or maybe WP forms. And so then I know those places all have groups and forms and communities as well. So let's go join those. And essentially what I started doing is just being in all of these different places. I'd maybe spend like an hour a day and I just hang out there. So calling places, people like to hang out, you know, maybe the bar, depending on what kind of business you operate. If you're like in a like a digital WordPress business, maybe not the bar essentially, but social media for sure podcasts is a really, really big one. Radio for maybe some more generic businesses, maybe if you're doing lawn care or something. Medium or other public reading forums, social media on Twitter, Facebook groups, Instagram, YouTube. There's all these different places where your ideal customer is hanging out. And essentially you wanna be there. You wanna be present in those areas. And there's a couple of ways that you can do that. So the way that I started doing it is just going in Facebook groups and I would search a Facebook group. Let's say it's the WordPress agency's Facebook group and I would search CRM because, you know, that's our product. And there'd be people who have questions about CRM and Facebook will give you those questions and I just go in and I answer the questions. You know, if they said, well, how do I do, you know, how do I get a web hook or connect Zapier with WordPress or something, right? And I'd go in and I'd answer that question. That question was not necessarily always related to our product or service. Sometimes it's just because I knew the answer but I wanted to be helpful. So I'd go in and I'd be helpful. I'd post often, I'd answer people's questions. Basically the trick is offering value within these communities that you find of people that fit your customer profile. And you want to be always be helping. You know, if anybody's seen Glenn, Gary, Glenn Ross, the play or the movie, the affiliated movie, the line is always be closing. And I feel that's like a pretty short-sighted way and that's how I started with the groundhogs. Just go straight for the ad, throw money at it, get people to convert something to a landing page and be close, close, close, close, close. That didn't really work for me. What worked for me is always be helping. So offer value first. So again, going into those communities and posting, sharing articles or creating content, creating YouTube videos that solve people's common questions to these problems. And on the back end, and that's really the trick to this because on the back end of you offering value in these communities is where you get to throw in your pitch. So let's say for example, someone goes in and asks, goes into the, what's a good CRM for WordPress? You know, I'd be able to go in and answer. Well, hey, let's see, you know, I might be biased but we have this new product and maybe it'll help me out. Here's a link for a free trial or whatever and you know, let me know what you think. You know, that does two things, it offers value. You can also say to be a poor peer more unbiased, hey, you know, there's a couple of other options out there too. You can go check that out. Here's some literature on maybe why you would want to choose a self-hosted CRM versus maybe a SaaS and going for like active campaign or infusion software. There's all these other ones. And here is some educational material on why you should pick one over the other and vice versa, right? That is a lot more helpful and educational than just going straight for the judge like, hey listen, I'm from Groundhog. I'd love to jump on a sales call with you and tell you all the great things about Groundhog and why we can help you make a million dollars in four days. That is not helpful, be educational, offer value upfront. And basically you're not really asking the expectation is not reciprocity. It's not, hey, I'll scratch your back, you scratch my back. It's I'm gonna scratch your back and whatever happens out of that happens, you're just there to be helpful and offer value. So what comes out of that? So you do, let's say you do this for, I'll say you do this for like a couple months, you're spending at least, I don't know. Let's, I did it for like an hour a day back in the early days, I do a little bit less than that now. The nice thing is, you know, you can eventually start delegating this, which is good. But in the early days, I did it all myself, spend an hour a day doing that, you know, minimum, minimum two hours a week. Like that's like bare minimum, just do it in the morning, get it out of the way, go to all the groups, answer questions. If you're a content creator, then great, write and do YouTube videos. One of the things that worked really, really well for me is I just like had the loom, you know, and I had like a loom subscription, I would record like three minute videos and then send them the links to the videos. And it's like, here's exactly how you do this, I'm moving my mouse and hopefully that helps. Okay, so once you're doing that for enough and you're interacting with these communities consistently, you're gonna run into community leaders. Now these are people in the community that they're also doing that but they've been doing it longer than you have. And that's sort of the idea. So these people have audiences, they command respect within sort of the realm of expert opinion, within that community. And the nice thing about these people is essentially is that they want you to succeed because what's good for your community is usually good for their community as well. They want to help you, they want to promote you. And these people and you being basically in the good graces of these community leaders is pretty essential. And your responsibility is to be gracious and be generous when they approach you. This might take a couple months. For me, what happened is after so long of doing this, I was solicited by a podcaster and say, hey, you know, I've seen you around in ex Facebook group for a while. I took a look at your products. It looks really cool. You seem like a really helpful guy. Would you like to come on and do our show on Friday? And then I was like, that sounds great. And so I got introduced by him to his community and then someone else, another community leader is part of his community. He sees that and then sort of a wagon wheel or a cycle happens or every time you are exposed to one community, you get exposed to several others as well. In order for that to work, again, you got to be gracious. So that means when you show up to be exposed to these community leaders, again, it's all about offer value first. You're not just coming out of the gate and being like, buy my thing. It's not gonna get you very far. You got to say, all right, well, here's how exactly the steps that I took to achieve a specific result that generated, this much impact to improve my life or whatever. And here's how you do it without giving me any money. But if you want to give me money, essentially at the end, because usually they give you an opportunity to like stretch your stuff, at the end, it's like, hey, listen, if you're interested in all about what I do and how we can help, here's a link and you can chat to me afterwards because you're being exposed to that community does not necessarily come with a guarantee of generating the business, but it always comes on the backend. So community leaders, that is sort of probably the climax of this system. So step one, got to know your customer. Step two, you got to be present at least an hour a day in these various different spaces in YouTube, in podcasts, in Facebook groups or whatever. You have to offer value. Again, it's not about always be closings, it's about always be helping. You have to work with leaders. Those are the people that are going to assist you in leveling up this strategy. It is like, if you remember, grade eight math class, it's like a parabola. It's an exponential function. The more you do it, the more you get exposed to these people that want you to succeed because again, it's good for their community, it's good for your community and what's good for you and vice versa. You have to be generous. And what does being generous mean in this context? It means a lot of people have like a scarcity mindset. You know, it's like the information that I know is special and if I share it, other people will then use it and then they'll be less for me. Like that's a scarcity mindset. You got to drop that, that's not going to work. You want to be as open and as transparent with information that helps you succeed as possible. Rising tide, lift, slow boasts. You want to be able to share as much as humanly possible. Be generous with your time and your knowledge. And then you got to repeat this. You just got to keep doing that. Minimum six months before you see any sizeable increase in your business. That's what it kind of takes is a six month minimum investment for this to sort of kick into gear. It could happen faster for you. It could happen in six weeks. I hope it does. But if it doesn't, the minimum amount of time of investment you got to put in before you start seeing stuff is definitely at least six months. If you consistently do this and you consistently put in this effort of knowing your customer and doing that entire plan and doing the work to figure out who they are. If you have a few customers already, probably an easy thing to do would be to just look at those people, your customers get on a call with them and be like, where do you spend most of your time when you're not in our product? Like, are you on Facebook groups? Do you go to meetups? Are you watching specific YouTube channels? You can just ask them questions if you don't know the answers. Have you already have a few customers? Being present, spending the time, going to the groups, going to the meetups, going to the work camps, doing whatever it is you have to do, offering value, answering questions, sharing your knowledge, creating quality YouTube videos or podcasts or whatever it is that you do. Working with leaders, being generous with your time and your knowledge and repeating this, I promise you, you will get more traffic. People will start going to your website via this system, your organic traffic. So people like if you're just doing like SEO work, your SEO will become more effective because the people coming from this system will improve the content that you create thereby improving your SEO. You will start generating social proof. You'll be able to point to all of the community engagement that you've done as part of your social proof and also those people that are now as part of your community and other people's communities that you're leveraging will become customers, you'll be able to go to them and ask for reviews and ask for testimonials and then use that as part of your marketing. Your products will get better because you'll be actually able to communicate at like a human level with your audience and with your followers and they're gonna tell you what's gonna make your product better. You should probably listen to them. You will start creating better content. Again, this back and forth that you're having is organic conversation that you're investing in this entire process is going to give you ideas of specific content to create, YouTube podcasts, videos, courses, blog posts, tweets, whatever. That's actually gonna give you ideas of stuff that you can answer and additional questions that you can answer and products or features that you can add. But by far and large, the most valuable thing that you'll get out that besides all your dreams, maybe peace on earth who knows is community relationships. You're gonna meet these community experts, these community leaders that you're gonna meet throughout this process and they will make themselves apparent to you. I promise that's how it works. These community relationships are gonna be by and far the most valuable thing that you're going to get. The people that I met, I'm still friends with and communicate and engage with on a regular basis. And I have gotten invaluable advice from the community experts that I met. Podcasters, product creators, thought leaders. It's been absolutely incredible, the wealth of knowledge that I learned from others much more successful than myself all because I offered their community members just a little bit of help. And those are going to be relationships that you're going to be able to rely on during the good times, the tough times when you have questions, when you need answers for yourself and you need to look to someone a little bit more successful than you, you're gonna be able to go to those people. And they, because they want you to succeed are going to help you. And that is worth, that is worth the six month time commitment it takes to get this thing going. It doesn't end at six months, by the way, you got to kind of keep doing it after that. You can do it less and less frequently or you can export it to other people as well, but kind of got to keep investing that. And so how much time have we spent on this? So we started at 45, so we spent like about 25 minutes on this. That's a pretty good amount of time sort of get through this kind of material. So I'm gonna open up the floor for questions. Not only about the subject, but I know a little bit about sales and marketing and CRM and WordPress development. And I know a little bit about a lot in terms of WordPress. So if you have any other questions besides that, I'm happy to hang around with everybody for the next, like five, 10 minutes somewhere in there, I think. So reach out. Now it's Q&A. Q&A is now open. I'll just wait until someone asks this question. We've got 29 people here. Someone's got to have a thought. If you don't have a question, at least make a statement. I was looking at the wrong panel. Okay, I found the questions panel and I do see people's comments. Okay. All right, so George says, your presentation had me chuckling, very entertaining and informative, thinking of a good question. Thank you, George. I'm waiting your question. Grume says, not a question, but just wanted to say, I really liked the presentation, clear, concise and informative. I'm glad you liked it. This really helped me early on. I didn't really learn this specific sort of system anywhere in particular. I sort of just developed it naturally, but I'm really glad that I could share it. I think it's really important. And again, I shared that call to action earlier. I'm not sure if I can do it again. I didn't say that. I'm not sure if it's still accessible, but I'll share it again. You know what? I'm just going to go grab the link again. I'm going to go back to this slide. I detailed this a little bit more in depth in this. I just shared that again. That's the link to sort of the full Blakedom blog post. I wrote that a couple of years ago. And game changing for me, game changing. Grume also says, the scarcity mindset is so toxic and almost always fake, limited time offer. Yeah. That's true. I mean, when it comes to like the marketing and stuff, it's like limited time offer and then sort of like the fake scarcity stuff, that people do that because it's still to some degree works. I find it personally uninticing and I always know that it's fake. And when you know it's fake, like, you know, you can always come back and get that same 30% discount to the top of the pricing page. I know that. And to some degree, I'd be lying if I said we didn't introduce a little bit of that in sort of like our own sales process. Because again, it works. For example, like Black Friday, like we only do like a specific discount during Black Friday and we don't do that in any other time of year. So that's like a sort of like a pseudo fake scarcity thing because I could offer it at any time, but I just choose not to because it's Black Friday and not sort of the plan. But anyway, regardless of that, the scarcity mindset in terms of psychological, like there's not enough for everybody is very toxic. And if you have that, look into your soul and work on whatever you can do to drop that because once you become generous with your time and your knowledge and even like any resources that you have, you're going to, like more doors are just going to start opening up for you that are gonna enable you to reach more people and help more people. I forget the guy's name immediately off the top of my head, but as the saying goes, if you help enough people get what they want, you can have what you want. Not my quote. I forget whose quote it is, but that's sort of like the golden rule to live by in this sort of situation. Stephanie says, I love your enthusiasm. It's infectious. Thank you, Stephanie. I'm glad it's infectious. That's the whole point. Zunay says, I guess everything was so perfect. No one needs to ask anything. Ask questions. I'm here with answers. Part, you know, the whole reason I'm here is because I want to help you. Because if I help you, I can have what I want. That's the whole point. I need to help you. Joshua says, at what point do you recommend to turn a person who is reaching out to help for a paying customer? That's an excellent question. Thank you for asking. So part of the way that you help, okay? So let's say you're answering a question in a Facebook group completely unrelated to your product. Let's say, hey, listen, how do I connect elementor to Zapier or something? That might be the question. In that sort of situation, I would do two things. Number one, I would immediately answer the person's question, okay? Right there in the forum that they're doing that or where they're asking that question, I would answer directly in there with no other information about who you are or what you're selling or what you're doing or whatever, right? The follow up to you answering that question is a piece of content on a YouTube channel, on a blog, in a video or somewhere that is adjacent to your product. So let's say your answer might go like, hey, I had this problem last week. Here is how I solved it and give the steps. If you want more information, I have a more detailed explanation linked to that explanation, which happens to be in your community. So in your place, in your domain, at your castle, so when they click that link, they get exposed to your ideas and your content and that's how that transition happens. So you basically leave breadcrumbs in all these communities. That's what you're really doing. You're planting seeds, you're leaving breadcrumbs and then people follow you there. You do not solicit directly during the offering of value. That's sort of the thing. So there's no direct solicitation. There you're just leaving breadcrumbs, right? And then those people will naturally start to follow them into your community and become your followers. I hope that answers your question. If you have a follow-up question, feel free to drop it in. But Joshua, I hope that gives you the basic gist. Leanne asks, what do you think about answering questions on Quora? If that is where your people are hanging out, that's the really important thing, right? So if your ideal customer is hanging out and asking questions in Quora, then 100% you should be answering those questions in Quora. If your ideal customer is not hanging in Quora, I would not waste your time. That is the entire point of doing the whole ideal customer research. If you already have customers, go ask them. If they ask questions in Quora, if they say no, I might not invest as much time there, right? There's some also like some like survivor bias in that, whereas the people that you have, you're sort of basing around, but if those are your ideal customers, then that's okay. You can still afford to do that, right? There's a big enough pool in that niche sort of area to sustain you. And also that halo effect comes into play a little bit as well, whereas the people who are adjacent to those, and there's a little bit of overlap will come and they'll buy anyway. So Leanne, the answer to your question is, if that's where your ideal customer is asking questions, then that's absolutely where you should be answering them. They might also be on Reddit, on Twitter, on Medium. They could be going to Meetups or other word camps or what have you. Thank you, Mark, for sharing the direct link to the article in the chat. I didn't know you could do that, so thank you. George says, the quote was Zig Ziglar, thank you. I knew it was ZZ something. I probably wasn't ZZ top though, but it was Zig Ziglar. You can have everything in life you want, but you will just help other people get what they want. Something like that. So thank you. Guillaume says, what's the best social network to follow? The ones that your ideal customer is following. Guillaume, the one that your ideal customer is following is the best social network to follow. You can ignore the other ones, right? So if your people are photographers, like if your customers are photographers, where do photographers hang out? Probably Instagram and Pinterest, right? That's where I would probably be if I was a photographer. If your people are developers, where are developers hanging out? Probably on Stack Overflow. That's kind of the, a photographer probably wouldn't get a lot of business out of Stack Overflow, you know? Oh, that wasn't your question. What's the best social network to follow you? Okay, the best social network to follow me is Twitter. That's where I am. That's where I like to hang out. That's where our customers hang out. We also have a Facebook group. Then you can follow me there. I'm pretty responsive in the Facebook group and you want to ask me questions. I'm more than happy to answer your questions there. So at AdrianToby, you'll be able to through that. Again, the breadcrumbs, there's lots of breadcrumbs for you to eventually find like our Facebook group and stuff because I don't think I'm allowed to share that for you in the word capital. So, but that's where you can find me. AdrianToby.com, groundhug.io at AdrianToby on Twitter. Leigh Ann says, thank you, great presentation. You're welcome Leigh Ann. I'm glad you spent the last 40 or so minutes with me. I'm really appreciative of everybody spending their time with me. I hope that you're leaving with information that was worth your time. That is my deepest hope. I think we have, is there a time limit? Like do it, is there a timer on this page anywhere? I don't see one, but I think we have a few more minutes if there's any follow-ups, questions that people have. Last call. Last call for comments, questions, humble brags, philosophical opinions, comments on the weather. Tom says, awesome presentation. Thank you, Tom. Thanks for spending the last little 40 minutes with me. I appreciate it. Hope you got value. Zunate asks, how's the weather? Not great, actually, in Niagara at the moment. Yeah, kind of miserable, to be honest. Got the window right there. It's not, it's feeling pretty gloomy. George asks, who's your graphic artist? I will tell you, I sort of got this new design language stuff that we're doing for like our presentations and we're getting like our website redone. So I don't hire my own graphic artists. I actually go through an agency, which I only recently hired, like maybe two weeks ago. I've been very impressed so far, it's not inexpensive. It's like a thousand bucks a month, US. So it's, it's kind of up there. I mean, it's even expensive, it's a lot for us, like monthly every time, especially when we have, but we're leveling up the level of our design and the amount of design that we do for all of our marketing assets and stuff. So I think it's worth it for us. The agency is called Deer Designer. I met this guy, I met the owner, the agency owner. I don't work with Deer directly with them. They have like 40 or something designers all over the world, but I met him. His name's Thiago, at Cabo Press, which is Chris Lemma's event. I don't know if anybody here knows Chris Lemma, but I went to Cabo, Mexico in like October and met him there and we hit it off. And I'm like, well, I'm just gonna be a customer because this sounds great. And it's unlimited design. It's like a minimum of like three hours a day for whatever design work you have and it's like that fluffy. So that's pretty cool. So the answer to that is Deer Designer, if the budget is there, I'd recommend it. If you're paying a freelance designer, you could basically replace that with them instead and you get sort of like a pool of designers and an account manager and it's a very nice service. I've been impressed so far. I've only been doing it for less than a month though. That's my warning. So if you're interested about my experience in three months, you can follow up with me and ask. All right. I think I have to call it soon. Do I go to the half? I think I go to the half hour. So five more minutes. Oh yeah, and they did. So like all these little graphics, all these little, so this is Phil for anybody that cares. He's our groundhog because, you know, we have a groundhog that's the name of the company. Groundhog is after the movie Groundhog Day, Bill Murray, my favorite movie. And so our groundhog's name is Phil because, you know, Phil the groundhog, Pucks a Tony Phil. And that's Rita, you know, the movie's love interest. And up here at the beginning, we have Larry. And Larry was the camera guy in the movie and he's sort of like our punchline. But yeah, we have all these little like illustrations and stuff done with that. And so we've been pretty happy so far. I'm pretty happy. Except this one, no, this one, I just scraped off of Canva as I was writing this presentation last night. I don't see anyone else chiming in. So I guess we'll call it. Thanks for showing up. If you have any questions or further questions or want to talk to me or, you know, want to pick my brain about anything, I'm more than happy to assist with any ideas that you have. At Ager and Toby is the best way to reach me. I hope everybody enjoys the rest of WordCamp, Montreal. And...