 I'm Ben Cotton. I'm the Fedora program manager or chief cat herding officer. That's me. Matthew is next on my list. Hi, I'm Matthew Miller. I am the current Fedora project leader. I also heard cats, but like I kind of listen to them as well, whereas Ben just tells them what to do. And Marie. Yeah, hi, I'm Marie Norden. I am Fedora's community action and impact coordinator or F cake. I also heard cats. I think I also just like hang out with them and we just chill. I don't know something like that. All right, I'm done. Spot. Hey, I'm spot. I break things and then I let cats clean up the mess. And spot is one of the elected members of the Fedora council. Yeah, suckers. Yeah, you voted for him. David. Hello, I am David Cantrell and I am elected to Fesco, but I'm also in the capacity of the Fesco representative for the council. So that is why I'm here. So that means I, I help with escalating Fesco issues to the council and we want the council's input or just keeping it up to date on engineering kind of specifics. The majority of my time that was spent following Fesco issues commenting, not commenting, voting, things like that. I've been working on this stuff for a long time. I'm not even going to bother to list it listed but I will say I have a cat. I adopted an injured cat from the animal shelter. It has no tail. Hey, Alberto. Hmm. We'll come back to Alberto. Vipul. Hello, I'm Vipul and diversity and inclusion advisor to Fedora council. I work in infrastructure and I guess I'm one of the cats but seems like cats have a lot of responsibility here. So, a smaller cat. Hey, I'm Shimano, and I work for the QA team. I'm currently leading the objective of community very and Mariana. I am probably one of the small cats in the whole Fedora ecosystem. Not necessarily noticed most of the times but sometimes there. Okay. Right. So I work on websites, applications, mentorship and packaging side of things with a lot of excited and exciting cats. And that's kind of what I do at night, but what I do a day is work for that. Ramya. Hey, everyone. I am for the webinar colleague. Basically, make sure that the objective is up and running and stuff like that. Very happy to be here. Hey, everyone. Okay. Looks like Alberto has left and will hopefully rejoin and Marie is around in the chat as well. Alexandra Fedorova. Let us know that she won't be able to join today. And Mariana is here so that we have now heard from everyone. So, Mariana, do you want to introduce yourself real quick? We have Alberto back. So, Alberto, would you please introduce yourself? Sure. I'm Alberto, yes, yet another happy Fedora contributor. I'm also the, I'm also are the major representative council. So hi, everyone. So the Fedora council is basically the governance and leadership body at the top of our org chart or actually the middle of our org chart, which is nice. We don't have a top to our org chart. It's a nicely, yeah, are you going to bring it up, Marie? Beautiful. So, we try to set the overall strategy for the project, but like the joke about there not being something at the top is actually on purpose because we're not really a top driven organization. We are a community driven organization where our job is to listen to the community feedback overall and to help the community set our collective strategy and then execute on it. And so that's, that's our basic job. So there are some full time members of the council. Two of us paid by Red Hat to be full time council members. That's Marie and I. Ben is program manager is also paid by Red Hat to do that full time but is technically an auxiliary council member. It's kind of a complicated structure for which we had good reasons at the time and it's working well enough that we are keeping it this way. We also have two completely elected representatives and then the two roles, the mind share and engineering, which are appointed by their respective bodies. So that kind of keeps things to a balance and because we decide everything by consensus, those two elected positions have a pretty strong weight because if someone elected position says, no, this should not happen. That's a block until we figure out a way to get more of the community on board. And it generally generally works out pretty well. And then we also have the diversity advisor and the objective leads on the council as well to get more of a broad input from people actually doing things and working on things in the project. So there's a question here in the Q&A that is there to address what kind of questions should you ask us is strategy. Can we ask about strategy absolutely asked about strategy. I think this is a pretty open session. This is a, hey, this is a chance for community to connect the community to connect with the council and ask us things directly because, you know, we're all all over the place and it's hard to pin us down in one spot. So feel free to ask away to see, oh, there's a couple that actually popped up if we want to do those. Ben, would you like to moderate these questions? That depends on if you can hear me or not. We can. It's good for now. Okay. All right, we'll go for it. One question is what area of Fedora needs the most assistance testing reliance docs. I would say all of the above, like there's no area where we have enough contributors. Right. If you have to pick one of those I would say docs is probably the area where we could most use some help because all the other areas can also benefit from docs. So it's a nice way to help across all sorts of different things. I don't have a, there's no hand raised in here, but I was going to say also other non coding things. There's plenty of organizational project management, community outreach, design, writing, there's all kinds of stuff to do. And the way to figure out how to get involved in that is to either talk with the join folks or the mind share committee. There's this thing called websites and apps revamp which is coming up. So we'll just turn the get Fedora and all the exciting things, all the exciting ways that we interact with the world around with the redesign, both in the way of how it looks and how it interacts with people. So, if you're someone who knows about these things feel free to join us. That is something that would need some assistance with the next question is, what is our strategy with respect to silver blue. Are we looking for that to the new default download anytime soon. It has a lot of positive vibes in the external community outside of for. So, I think it is likely to be the future. Like you said, it's got a lot of positive vibes people are excited about it. It's cool technology. But on the same time, some of the things that it solves like making updates go cleanly like our updates have actually been working really nicely people's upgrades are easy and like we haven't gotten a lot of complaints in those areas. So it's not like there's a fire we don't have to move over urgently to fix a broken thing, but it is interesting new technology the alignment with IoT and core OS is cool. And I think it's probably where we want to go, but there are also a lot of hard things that aren't solved yet like how can Chrome work. They're kind of important and I know that people are working on those things, but we don't have a lot of people working on them. So it's something we can we can be careful with and wait until like we really feel like it's a good thing to make be the default. I think I think it will be a really useful thing, especially if we can like ship on more hardware. It's really nice to QA a defined set of packages as this is the QA set and be able to tell people this is what this is what works. And you can do all these other things, but you're outside of what we support. That's a useful thing for a lot of people and silver blue makes it easier to do that kind of thing. So I think we'll probably see that in the future but I think it's probably a several years off thing rather than like a next year thing. Follow up question is, so the main blocker on silver blue is Chrome support. That just comes so I think Chrome actually works but it doesn't work in a container because it doesn't work very well with flat pack, because they has its own sandboxing. I think spot probably knows more about that, but may not want to actually talk about it for fear of unleashing demons from beyond. I mean, I think there's lots of cases that are out there that we know of where things don't work in the silver blue style environment. Tech live is a great example of this tech live as soon as it can constantly right to flash us are and it can't. And unraveling that is not on my to do list at the moment. But if someone came to me with patches and said hey we fixed this I wouldn't happily carry them. I think it's a lot of identifying use cases that we expect to work in the base release and making sure that the package sets that are in fedora aligned well with those use cases, and I would love to see that work happen. I certainly think it's a interesting paradigm. But I don't know. I think math timeline is probably the right one. Cool. Okay, we have another question. Are there any plans to introduce sandbox applications and what about new cool wallpapers for food or 35. Two questions, I guess, let's take the sandbox applications first. David you want to do that one for a fesco point of view. I mean, I suppose, but I did the topic comes up and generally with with fesco we process things. You know, as a discussion first on the development list. Well, not always, but that's kind of the preferred path is to bring the discussion up there and then that helps us gauge if there's interest. What do people want to focus on first? What do the users want to see first and then we can talk about the engineering details from there. So, I mean, I don't really see anything, any specific requests, but I just know that, you know, there's there's kind of discussions around that and I would personally like to see us pursue something there. I don't have a good idea of what would be a good first attempt though. Sandboxing is hard. I mean, it's, it's, it's a great concept, but if you look at what chromium has to do to sandbox and how often it breaks, like the code that handles the sandboxing logic inside of chromium and chrome is not easy to understand. Yeah, it's it's and that that's a good example of one that is ideal that people are like yeah I like the I like the idea of that being sandbox. Really I think any, any end user application that kind of fits in that category so maybe a classics kind of like desktop style application where if you're not on Linux. I don't know what what else do people use I've heard there's other OSes, but let's say you're you're installing you know Microsoft Word or something like that. Those are applications that on Windows and on macOS don't come with us and we've always approached it differently in the world of Linux and even further back with just Unix where everything is kind of unified together. And from a user perspective and from a developer perspective, being able to have kind of like these isolated, you know sandboxes where I can drop things on the system easily independent of the OS updates just makes it easier, but we get into the challenge with how do we implement that. Is there one good way to do it. Should we support more than one way, what things are good like tech live, you know, I mean, from a. Payload perspective is a nice idea to be sandbox, but then from a from a user perspective you think about the people using those tools they kind of expect them to be integrated with the system. So then you get kind of the messy situation. I've looked at some sandboxing. I mean, just sort of broadly speaking like sandboxing systems implementations around what do you want to call it. We have flat pack which is really nice in in fedora, and I like it. But I've also looked at the app image stuff that kind of exists out in the wild. And that's a neat idea to. From a technical standpoint is not quite there like you, you can get one of these sort of bundles and they're very similar to like, like a macOS bundle where everything is crammed in in the in the directory and it's kind of like this. It's not quite a truded environment but it knows how to find its own libraries and stuff like that. That's neat except the app image stuff still needs some host requirements that make it a little tricky so I've run into things that ran fine on say fedora 32 and then on fedora 33 stopped working so those are little quirks that I think we'll have to deal with over time. Whatever makes it nicer for users but also something that is easy for us to manage from an engineering standpoint and and not be so opaque and difficult for new contributors to use would be great. What that system would be. I don't know. Awesome. That was a really in depth answer. Thank you for that. And then someone asked about wallpapers for 35 so the design team is working on a wallpaper right now. I'm actually involved in that it did some pretty cool marbling photography so we'll see if that ends up being a part of the mix. But like most things in fedora are extra fun things like the supplemental wallpapers were you know that was really one person's effort to make that happen and things changed in their life so we recently haven't had the supplemental wallpaper thing that we do but if someone wanted to step up and start running that again we'd be more than happy to support that to happen. Let's see what else we got going here. I think we have a couple more in our Q&A. So, I'm going to start at the top. Is there any possibility to provide the fedora flat pack runtime installed out of the box, not the portal only it's almost a gigabyte in size. I'm going to defer that one to the fedora workstation working group that's not a council level decision on that kind of thing like that's that's an engineering decision for that group. Gotcha. Okay. The next one is who is our biggest competitor and why. Now that's a council level thing absolutely. I would say our biggest competitor is Microsoft windows because that's where most of the systems are that are not running fedora Linux yet. Followed by macOS because I think there's a neck and neck thing for like software developers and kind of the actual specific target market of users that we might really do well in. I think those are so those those are our two main competitors in the Linux operating system space it's and we mostly compete with free Linux we don't really compete with on enterprise level that's our that's our niche. Ubuntu is obviously the most popular Linux distribution for in that space by, you know, quite a lot. And so, if I think we're best to focus on commercial operating systems because there's plenty of room to grow without Linux in fighting and a lot of things that you know benefit Ubuntu and benefit us like that that all we both grow. But, you know, I wouldn't mind taking a couple points of share from from Ubuntu that that'd be fine. Cool. Thanks for that answer, Matthew. Okay, so let's do that one's going to be a long one when we have that one maybe till the end. Okay, what are fedora's basic objectives, why we are all here and working on these projects and what do we want to achieve. I would love for someone other than me to answer this question. Take me to your leader. We should all be able to answer this question. I'm just here for the cat. I really don't. I'm just bringing up the website so I can just read off of it. I think you're going to get, you know, different answers from different people but I'll start and I think we should all chime in. And I think fedora we've talked about this over the years. When you look at how it got started, you know, we were a Linux distribution. We are a Linux distribution that's our primary project, but you look at how it's evolved and we're a community we're an open source community that's fundamental to what we do we've been. We've strongly adhered to that. And I think that fedora as a community project can or should strive to provide a good workspace for other projects to start and grow under that fedora umbrella. And that, for, from my point of view means providing the tools and the platform that enable that, making it attractive to people for for projects to want to, you know, use our tools or platforms stuff like that. And then have sort of these policies and procedures and all of the sort of mechanics around how you run an organization set up so that it's inviting and welcoming and things like that. Someone else go after me please. I'm going to plus one what you said. But if you go to the fedora's mission and vision page, you will find that it says almost exactly what David just said in entirely different words so I think you've internalized that very well or we've internalized we've documented that that thing that you're you're it's it's very much that. Yeah, I think to a large degree operating systems have become boring and I think they should be because a boring operating system is a stable and reliable operating system and that's what gives people the ability to do. You know the cool things that actually help people. You know, like, building an operating system is not my end goal. It's a thing that we do that gives people the power to do useful things like make art, or, you know, do science and you do research and things like that. So, you know, David's answer really hits it on the nose. And it's it's worth adding to that that it's it's not so much that that the OS has become boring. It's that in a way we've, we've kind of achieved that where, you know, 1020 years ago if we were doing one of these conferences. The talks will be about hey when I'm my mouse going to work when are you going to get my screen to work all those things that we had to do all that groundwork that had to be laid. We're at that point. So now we can do what we really want to do, you know, provide that platform, enable people to do what they really want to do. Cool. Well, I think that was pretty good. I think we can move to the next question. So this one, I don't think we're going to have time for everyone to each council member to talk about both of these things, but I'm sure a few people want to chime in. So what is one thing each council member thinks is a highlighter success and a challenge or failure in the last year. I can go first. I'm going to say code of conduct. It was a real challenge for the people managing that we had more than two times the number we had in previous most of the previous years average. So there was a lot to manage. And if you think about, there was a report on it. So it was over 20 incidents or things that were managing stuff like one every other week kind of thing or more. Sometimes they pop up all once and that was definitely a challenge and some of those things we face together as a council, but I think that the challenge behind that challenge is the pandemic. And, you know, we've all been through so much. And just from my own personal life, I can, I'm just guessing everyone else is dealing with personal stuff to be on the variety of dramas and different things that have actually happened in the open source world over the past four to six months. So there's been a lot of things and that has been a huge challenge for sure. I'm going to say the success is our virtual events. Right. So, I can just look right now but I think we have almost 700 registrations. And that is way more than we had last year, I think we had total like 490 or something. So we're ready, like, we're growing the virtual events have really brought fedorums together and allowed them to connect with the council mind share committee, developers who are working on these things every day so that the quality of that engagement that any random contributor might have has actually been better than when we're doing something when we're doing block right. Because only a certain amount of people could go to block and now it's accessible for so many more. So I'm going to say that's where I'm at and I'll let someone else jump in. I think, you know, shipping Fedora was a great success in my opinion, and hopefully more coming soon. So I'm really excited about that. Talking about challenges that are there on my perspective is kind of incentivizing a long term contribution. So it's kind of easy to explain what there is good about open source and why you should contribute to it but if it goes to articulating it in real terms when you're trying to put that coding that you learned in the school design that you did in college to actually doing something for a long term. That is when things kind of come up front that there can be challenges across maybe time zones or there might be some kind of abstractions you don't really know who to reach out to. This is something that we're trying to deal with constantly using the joint sake but yeah we're getting there. It's low but we are getting there. That's certain. It's a challenge that was handled well for us. It wasn't something that we had a direct control over but definitely impacted us was the implosion of free node. And we had to sort of migrate everything and, you know, we had long, long standing sort of working relationships with upstream communities on free node, our own channels. And it was really interesting to step back and watch that sort of result itself in a relatively short amount of time, which I thought was really good. And the replacement on Lavera was kind of set up for us already, which was nice. So it was a challenge but didn't seem too bad. I want to call out the new logo as a long time coming happy to see it. I know that's both a success and challenge for us as we move forward. But I think it's great that we finally got to that point and we're moving forward and continuing to find all the places where the old logo is still hiding and replace them. So I'm really pleased to see that work continue. See when on Ben's shirt, we're going to have to like get updated. Spot the old logo. Exactly what I was going to say. So does anyone else have any burnings, victories or challenges? Go ahead. Yeah, I do. So I just highlight that the revamp is going on. That was a huge highlight success on mine because I'm really excited about it. And I want to see how that's going to happen. Challenge is not directly related to Fedora, but I think pandemic did have a little challenge on everyone. Like I know that maybe I think that everyone on the console right now had an in-person contact at some point or the other. I feel I missed it out because of the pandemic because once I joined everything was virtual. Although it's great that it reduces a lot of barriers of traveling and all that, but then I think that's like as a personal challenge. I feel that in person would have been really exciting to that one. Yeah. That's definitely a challenge not being able to connect with everybody in person. We've, as for our council, we try to do an in-person meetup twice a year. One associated with events and one like where we're right, you know, which is just the council and that's been really valuable. And the virtual version of that has been okay, but also it's felt like more meetings. Not the same thing. Yeah. All right. Can we move to the next question? Okay. When are we going to introduce a mobile OS of Fedora? There are people working on it. There is a Fedora mobility SIG. And if you're interested in that, you should join with that. There's a hard problem because in order to actually be on mobile hardware that isn't developer-oriented hardware, like the hoops to go through to do that are much larger than something like getting it to go on a Lenovo laptop. And this is a space where Microsoft dropped out because they didn't feel like they could be competitive, right? So that's a hard space to go into. And I know Neil Gaapa always yells at me for being negative whenever this comes up. So I don't mean to take away from the fun of people who want to work on this. I think it's actually really important and really cool. I'm happy to see that PinePhone is like a thing that's kind of taking off and being interesting. I think we will have a version of Fedora Linux of some sort that runs on the PinePhone. That'll be cool. Possibly the KDE folks are looking at putting together a KDE plasma-based phone thing for that. That would be great to see. So that's in the works. Join that if you're interested. Cool. Thanks. All right. We have another here. Are there ideas to bring more multimedia codecs back into the official repose so RPM Fusion isn't needed anymore to get stable streaming in the browsers working correctly? I'm looking at Spot. So the basic answer is those things cannot be in Fedora Linux because they have patent encumbered by patents and we can not ship them. We don't have legal permission to. So it's out of our hands. As those things reach the end of their patent lifetime, we do try to bring them in. That's why you can play MP3s out of the box now. So some of it is just a waiting game. I talked a little bit about politics before. This is some politics that affect us. Software patents are really bad for open source and we should fight against them. That's some politics I think we can all get behind and that's what's blocking us from doing that. Cool. That's a pretty straightforward answer. I think we can move to the next. So this is the two-parter by two people. I'm just going to combine them because they go together. So how do we attract new talent to go open source with Fedora and building on that? Do you forecast the future Linux skills shortage? My junior colleagues consume and deploy cloud, PAAS services and don't need to go install and use NOS as much. So how do we attract new talent and continue to attract new talent and keep interest? A big part of it kind of goes to mentorship to be honest. If people come in with some talent, maybe it's a very little amount, but it's totally fine. We could take that little amount, add something more by ourselves as a community or as an enabler and we could scale that to new heights and maybe use that talent and delivering our offerings, the things that we make. Also, there are programs that we have on the summer coding that people can be part of. So be it outreach, be it cheese or other stuff. There's JointSig where people can just jump right in and say hi. And there are always folks who are just willing to communicate and see how it works out for them. You know, understand why is it so that they're so interested to contribute. That's how we can obviously get started, but yeah, it's kind of a challenge. The graph of growth is not quite a straight line, which just goes in a constant angle. It can be going fast in some time and then sometimes it might not even look as if it's moving. So mentorship, that's kind of how we think it might just help. It's a slow process that builds upon over time. Well mentorship can also be incentivized at the programs that I just talked about. What do other folks think? Yeah, I was going to say the same thing basically is I do see, you know, kind of a shortage of people with, you know, what I would consider basic operating system skills. But that goes back to our earlier point where, you know, the OS is kind of boring at this point it does work, but that doesn't mean we don't need to make sure we're attracting people that want to work on that because it's boring because we expect it to work and it does so we are going to need people that have an interest in that space or in something else that enables the rest of the platform so it's a matter of, I think, you know, having a wide variety of talks at events like this so that we get the information out there for projects so that people can see it and then aligning that with mentoring programs either through a summer of code, outreach, anything else that we set up is I think is the best way because I think how probably any of us got involved with this. It was, you know, you knew someone who kind of helped you along, you know, was maybe an informal mentoring kind of thing and we need to just make sure we do that as a project and really focus on that as much as we can. I want to add one more thing to that. Also, I think we should, it would be a great idea to revamp talks a little bit to have good flow. I think dogs would be the face of any product for anyone to actually anyone would go first and look at the dogs. So I think, along with mentorship and we have a good flow of dogs on how to contribute and because not every time someone would be available to mentor so that's when dogs would come into play and kind of provide the step by step guide on how this can be done. It's time taking, but I think that would be like it would be great to have a good dog documentation thing, especially for contributing to attract new contributors and especially to the open source. Cool. Does anyone else have responses for that one. All right, I'm going to the next. All right, what's one thing in fedora which is almost better than any other OS as a dev or a user. And maybe it's why you feel motivated to contribute. But guess what's your favorite thing about fedora. The community. Yep. Yeah, hands down the community. I think by our nature as a project of integration and with our motto of upstream first where we try to make sure that there's things in fedora that we share with everybody. It's hard to find something that is unique to fedora Linux that you can't find in a different Linux distribution and that's actually one of our strengths like that's one of the things that's great about us that we don't try and make it this is just an exclusive part of, you know, operating system for everybody and that includes other Linux distributions as well. Well, to me, honestly, it kind of comes down to the first, you know, the first pillar of us that we kind of make sure that we get thanks to folks as soon as it comes out in a way that it's very polished and it can be just you know, in a state, take for example loom 40, we were one of the first distributions to get it out and well, it's kind of out there that it's one of the most polished distributions which have been able to do it. So, kind of faster do with stable things while also making sure that we are not staying way back just for the stability. So that's kind of what drives me to contribute to the fedora and keep using it as my primary distribution. I'm also going to go with that friends. That's my favorite favorite thing about fedora and I think we're better than everyone else wait now. I think that it's just it, you know, the connections I have with people in the community really do motivate me to make experiences like this for for everyone to enjoy. And just being the council of course but I think we're kind of almost all in agreement on that one. So let's go to the next. Okay. Are there any plans to collaborate with the recently announced sent us automotive automotive sig and what if any relationship will exist with fedora. I know this one it's easy. That's a is directly working with the fedora iot group and is part of the fedora iot working group is going to bridge into the sent us automotive sake. So, yeah, straightforward. Yes. Great to see Lenovo working on better wider support for fedora but usually this means that all focus goes to latest and greatest hardware. Would it be possible to nudge them to look at widening their support. I can take this to go ahead David. I was just going to ask does that mean like older systems maybe some years back or not just like. I don't understand the scope, but Matthew you you were going to answer right. I probably read that question to and I think the answer is the mechanism by which Lenovo is able to make Linux support better doesn't work for that way. And that is Lenovo, like, this was really actually I opening to me learning how laptops are made, right. It in some ways make putting together a laptop is like putting together a Linux distribution. They are using a lot of upstream to them components that they assemble into a laptop and so when they go to make a new model, they basically go to a bunch of vendors and say, we need a fingerprint reader we need to do this with all these components and then they expect them out and then have them put in and so one of the things that they're doing now is telling those vendors, this thing needs to support open source out of the box Linux drivers. And so that's the leverage they have. Whereas they don't really go like Lenovo. Sometimes they've got have engineering software hardware people mostly they don't write these drivers they depend on them existing from the component level. And so their influences over what components they can put into it. And so, for example, the fingerprint reader on the earlier X one carbons there is some I guess there's not some reverse engineered work on it but Lenovo isn't going to go back and enable those because it's just it's old hardware to them they're going to basically say in the future all fingerprint readers have to work with Fedora Linux. So, yeah, that that's basically just the way that works. On the other part of widening things, we definitely hope to have it available on more models but COVID has just torpedoed the supply chain. So, where we're at this point fortunate that they're able to ship one model with Fedora Linux on it and hopefully that will get better in the future once you know computer chips are available again. Turns out those are important for making a laptop. So, and we have time for one more question I was that long when I mentioned okay so building on the state of Fedora keynote what does each council member think is next for Fedora and this could be a pie in the sky dream, or something very concrete and targeted. So, I will do mine first. I think the next big thing, especially for like mind share and for me to work on is hybrid events. So, eventually hopefully we're going to be coming back to in person we partially to be able to see each other and connect. As we're talking about earlier, but we don't want to take away all of this amazing content from everyone. You know we've moved and now we can't go back. So, we need to have a hybrid events and what is that going to look like. I'm not quite sure yet. So, definitely looking to hear the community's feedback on good experiences and bad. And that's what I got. My pie in the sky is I would love to see Fedora continue to grow as a platform for gaming and game development. I think that would be really cool to see I would love to create new opportunities to ride the wave that valve and steam have been accomplishing for a lot of Linux gaming, and things like 03 DE open sourcing is very exciting to me I'm trying to find a way to get jumped into Fedora. And, and I would love to see people be able to not just immediately discount Fedora and say well I want to play games so I'm not going to use this. Langton white says in the comments that we should watch for dev conf us keynote announcements. Something is about open source gaming. Nice. Nice. I'm into it. Right. So, plus one to that I mean with the steam deck or something what whatever it's called coming around the corner and there would be a lot of development with proton. I see that as a total possibility because we might just have a gaming spend in sometime around who knows. But my pie in the sky is something that Justin started articulating in some weeks before that is Fedora Linux to become a digital public good. Oh my god that would be one of the great things that can happen to this community and well to our offerings, to be honest. So, yeah. Okay, I'll go next. Yes, plus one to the digital public. Yes, I'm very excited about that. And also really looking forward to further having more and more contributors, especially in the web development part, and also growing the mentorship and the documentation guide so so I'm excited about all those. And also want to be part of it so so let's see how that goes. I'm going to comment to the same thing I save when when I'm answering questions for a fesco election. What's really important to me is is removing friction that prevents people from joining as a contributor or a co maintainer of a package or adding anyone or something like that anything we can do to improve that in the past couple of years we've seen a whole lot of improvements which is really great. So, just moving forward in that direction, evolving with how, how development trends change that's what I want to see a more efficient federal joint process for better contributors sustainability that would be a great way, great thing to look forward to, and more companies shipping Fedora by default, if we can order more find this guy if I can order the daughter delix PS with Fedora that would be great. I would like, I saw an article I don't about some some new Linux desktop that somebody had developed that the author liked on Twitter the other day. And one of the comments was, and they haven't even made an operating system for it yet, like it's not a spin it's just like it's just a desktop environment. What I would like is for those projects to never feel like oh I need to go make an OS to go underneath it like that's, that's what this is like, that should be the boring thing that we're taking care of as a project. So if you've got some sort of new, I would like to see new desktop environments, whatever new software, new spins new things people want to do next time somebody goes to make a thing like core OS. I feel like doing it in Fedora is the easiest way to get what they want and make that easy and welcoming for those kind of projects so that we actually are a home for those kind of innovation. Cool, did everyone go. Ben, did you want to try this. I just like to be able to hear about it. Gotcha. Well, I think we all went around on that one. There's one more let's try to fit it in because we have a couple more minutes and this will be our last one. Okay. Web standards are increasingly integrating with OS, the Fedora 34 notch. Okay, prefer reduced motion or dark mode with Fedora 34 not shipping with either or Firefox giving up on PWAs. How is Fedora looking to tackle these. That's actually a good point, you know, with applications were integrating how websites look like with how the operating system looks like even if it's dark mode in the operating system. Lo and behold, you'll open up a website and it's this dark as well so you don't have to go ice bearing on a screen, just because you shifted windows so something that I wouldn't like to know about as well. The last one's stumping us huh. Anyone else on. Well, the workstation group would would be a great one to involve in the discussion here and maybe that's a topic we can bring up on the develop mailing list I know engineering reps so I say let's all go to the development mailing list but I think it's it's a good one where we should have you know maybe maybe a session where we discuss what are the you know what are the use cases where we're talking about because you know we have a lot of a lot of good examples from people but what should we focus on what have they already tackled. You know maybe maybe it's not quite as much work as we think it is, but it's not something that I specifically know a lot of details about but I would say involving the workstation group would be the first step. Assuming in person flock happens next year would it be in the EU or the US so we have a contract down payment still in place for Detroit flock. And that was not something we could take back so the idea is that we will be in Detroit in 2022 if it's in person. That's the idea so we might have to switch things up I know there's a schedule back and forth with EU versus NA so I don't know I got to check in with some folks and how we're going to make that. Okay for everybody I think there was a reason like there's a different conference right that we're trying to avoid or something. The Red Hat Engineering has asked that we be in Europe in the same year that the Red Hat Summit is in Boston so that they're not doing to because the other Red Hat Summit is in San Francisco which is expensive for travel for Red Hat's travel budget so we could get more Red Hat Engineering there if we do that and it's generally beneficial to the project if we have as much Red Hat Engineering there as we can. Cool. Should we try to stick a few more questions in? How do you start a SIG? Well the first thing you've got to do is you've got to get the SIG declaration stick and you've got all the stick and you say, I declare SIG! I don't know how we do it anymore. It's a very lightweight process. Basically you just find some people who are interested and declare that you have a SIG. In order for it to actually be a real thing like having regular meetings is important and you want to have regular meetings and documentation and some basic like contact procedures channels and then make sure those are active. One of our problems really is it's so easy to start a SIG and it is not automatic to un-start a SIG. So we've got a lot of SIGs that are not actually alive and no way of telling. That's one of the things we're actually working on and don't have a good solution for yet but starting one very easy. I see we're losing council members. I think some of them might be heading to other sessions and we're very close to the end of our time. Is there anyone who can answer this question? What is Fedora's relationship with Overt? We hate those guys. I mean, seriously. Again, we're going to teach them a lesson that they will never forget. Never ever forget. No, that's not right. It's appealing. I think Overt is the upstream for a project for Red Hat's virtualization platform that runs on RHEL and the Overt team has had trouble keeping up with the pace of the Fedora kernel over the years. So they tend to target CentOS instead as the platform that they're working on. I would love for them to target Fedora, but I understand the issues with keeping up with the latest kernel. That's hard for them to do. Well, it's not just the kernel, isn't it Java? Actually, the majority of it is Java and some of it is kernel as well, even though they kind of advertise that Fedora is supported. It's still in trouble waters. What is Java is our question. That is very valid. Thank you, Miro. Yeah, so, you know, we just hope that they will rewrite Overt and Python and then, you know, we can just include it in Fedora. All right, so I think that there were, might have been a couple of questions that we missed. They were either going to be a super long conversation or they might have come in after. I know the answers are yes, yes, maybe and ask Ben Cotton. Mostly the last one. Just kidding. But I was going to say, if you do have more questions, the council has IRC meetings and we also have a monthly video call. They can be a part of and we put those recordings up on YouTube. We usually have a guest who comes and talks about the latest and greatest or some kind of project that's happening within Fedora. So we have those means we also have a mailing list. No, we don't. We have a discussions page and we have a Pejor repo. So if you have more questions for us, want to talk about these types of things, we're open to that. So feel free to join us in one of those places and I'm on to the next session. I'll see y'all over there. Thank you everyone. Bye everybody.