 If I had to pick one factor that would determine whether or not something was strength training or not, believe it or not, it would not be the weights. It would be the rest periods. Rest periods actually make strength training. Strength training. Without rest periods, you're just doing cardio with weights. This one I think is important because it totally is. The rest periods, people think they don't realize that it's an important part of the formula or that it plays a significant role. I think people think, oh, it's resting because you have to rest because you need to break. Or if I'm using weights, then I'm strength training. So if I do an orange theory class or I'm doing circuit training, then as long as it's with weights or machines, it's all strength training. And I've even seen programs labeled as such, you know, strength training group class. What to do in your rest period, you know, like in there's actual exercises in your rest period that you're supposed to do. So it's like, yeah, that's a weird thing that people don't understand the fact that you're just adding more isn't better. This is creating a cardiovascular response. This is one of my favorite tips you've done recently because I actually think it's still really popular with the average gym goer. And I think we see it still with fitness influencers in our space that have large followings, half a million million followers, and they say lost 100 pounds of weight, you know, crash dieting and exercising, and they love to, you know, put out circuit type of training exercises where they're doing a squat upright row or a lunge to bicep curl to shoulder press. And then they go to another exercise and there's, you know, they're sweating like crazy and they're promoting that type of training as strength training because they're lifting dumbbells and really it's not, it's not, it's, it's so much closer to you just getting on a stair master and going to, going to town on the stair master than it is actually to traditional strength training. That's way closer to that than it is just because you're holding on the dumbbells doesn't make it is a great strength training routine at all. Strength training, strength training is are you using resistance, which can come from any source. It could be body weight, it could be a resistance band, a machine, of course traditionally it's been done with free weights, but it could be anything that provides resistance literally and then, and then the rest periods, the rest periods of what make it strength, right? So people are like, okay, well, why rest periods? What's that all about? You're training a energy system in the body that results in the, where the adaptation is to build strength and build muscle. Okay. So when you're doing an exercise, there's different types of fuels that your body uses. And the fastest burning or hottest burning type of fuel happens anaerobically. So this is without oxygen. It burns hot, it produces power, it produces strength, but it burns out quickly and when it burns out, then your body becomes, it starts to use anaerobic, excuse me, aerobic type energy, glycolytic energy. Now there's, there's definitely crossover. So I know the science nerds are going to go on here and be like, well, technically you're using a little, whatever, okay, fine. But you saw I'm overgeneralizing, but really what it is, is what I'm saying. Once you burn that out, which short rest periods or no risk periods especially does that, you went from anaerobic, which is strength and muscle building to aerobic the entire time. It doesn't matter if you use dumbbells, doesn't matter if you use barbells, doesn't matter. Use a jump rope. It really doesn't matter. Now if I'm focusing on training and working through the energy system that produces the adaptation of strength and muscle, well now I'm building muscle. By the way, okay, even running can be done in a way to build muscle if you understand this, sprinting. If I did a short hard sprint, that is actually going to induce some hypertrophy in my legs versus a long distance type of run. You see that in the, you know, the physicality of the athlete. That's right. Yeah. It's pretty obvious and glaring when you see a sprinter versus a marathon runner. Right. So if you want all the benefits of strength training that we've talked about many times, building muscle, boosting metabolism, androgen receptor density, sculpting, shaping the body, strength, all that stuff, then you need to have rest periods otherwise you're not doing strength training. So again, if you had to define what makes strength training, strength training and you had to pick one factor, believe it or not, it's the rest periods that define it more than the type of resistance that you use, which, you know, it's a bit of a paradigm shifting way of thinking about it, but it does need to be communicated this way because I mean, like you said, Adam, the average person, they think of strength training anytime they see weights being involved. I mean, I remember when body pump was a popular class in the gyms that I would manage. Body pump was a group exercise class that used free weights. The idea was it's a strength training group class. Well, if you watch body pump, they're not strength training. It's literally going from one exercise to another exercise to another exercise. It's cardio. It's no different than the step classes that happened before it or whatever. It's the same thing, except they're just using weights and they're using weights as a gimmick, as a gimmick to sell to people like, oh, you've heard about strength training? It's a marketing tactic. That's right. This sort of evolve in our career of ways to pull people into these types of group training classes. It's not as popular to have rest periods and stop. They're very momentum-based and they're experiential-based. All the emphasis was always on, obviously there's a communal effect and you have accountability in terms of like your friends. There's appeal there for that. In terms of the actual workouts, it evolved into something that's a continual pace. We're moving to the music. There's a beat to it. Everybody just has to keep going, keep going, keep going, and so this just conveyed to the person in there that that's how I have to always train is always doing something and moving and rest isn't really as much of a priority. Such a good point, Justin, that all the energy and effort is put into the experience when it comes to... To making it entertaining. I wouldn't even use experience. I would use the word entertaining. It's very similar to what we talk about, the science that goes into process foods. It's not being engineered to be healthy and good for you, it's being engineered to taste good and get you addicted to it so you eat more and you buy more. The same thing goes for these class-based type of circuit training with weights is it is designed to entertain you, to keep you coming back for more because it's fun and it's exciting and there's... And it's hurts and it's sweaty. It's loud music playing and there's a rhythm to it and you get the... And then you get the cortisol junkies that love the sweat and the energy and the endorphins that you get from it. And so it's all about this experience that they are chasing to sell you on the idea that it's good for you. And the truth is that the best way, the right way, just isn't as sexy. Just isn't. It's not as... I mean, I also think of when I compare, when I recently had to talk about our business in my Hampton group and they talk about our competitors or what we saw in the marketplace and how did we know that we'd have this successful business? And I'm like, well, that was easy. I said that one of the biggest monsters in this space is Beachbody. And Beachbody is also an example of a company that you agree to, you know, billion plus dollars all based off of marketing to all these things that we're talking about. They weren't great programming at all. It was horrible programming at best. But what they were brilliant at was their ability to market to people with these experiences, you know? Are you believe the best at it? They are. That's why they were the most successful on it. And I knew, we knew that all we had to do was convince a small percentage of those people, which would be, we knew would be easy because so many people had tried that and failed, that there is actually a much better approach to exercise and fitness. If your goal is overall health, strength, body composition change, there's a right way to do it. It's not as entertaining. It's not as sexy, you know, you can't do it to a beat so much. But I tell you what, you do it and you'll, you'll recognize and you follow it to a tee, you'll see how much better it is. And then we knew that all we had to do is get a sliver of that business and be able to share that with the right amount of people and that it would do well. Look, it's, there's a, there's a few reasons for what you're saying, Adam, and this is why I think coaches and trainers play such an important role because the experience can be amazing when people have the understanding of what they're doing and the expectation matches the experience. So what I mean by that is you take the average results. Well, you take the average person whose expectation with workouts is what? What's their expectation? Oh, it's going to be hard. I'm going to sweat. I'm going to get sore. We're going to be moving a lot. So then they go into a class in its traditional strength training where they do a set and because they're beginners, it's not going to be super intense, right? It's all about form and technique. And, oh, make sure your technique is here. Okay. Your squat is a little here. Try this correctional exercise. Now we're going to rest for two minutes or three minutes. Okay. Now we're going to do this movement. They're going to be like, that's suck. It would be like going to a dinner, expecting a quiet dinner with your wife and you sit down and then a circus happens around you, right? You'd be like, this sucks. This is not what I expected. Now, if you went in expecting a circus, you'd be like, this is, this makes sense. The average person's expectations, they don't understand strength training. They don't understand what it's supposed to feel like. They don't understand the results, what it's supposed to produce, what it does for them. But I think if we change those expectations, like if somebody who listened to our show on a regular basis showed up to a class and they experienced real strength training, they would leave and be like, that was awesome. So I think that's a big part of the problem. And part of it is the industry itself, the industry capitalizes on these short windows of motivation, these short windows of self-hate. The person feels fat, they're ready to do whatever. They're, they, it's cathartic to beat the crap at themselves. And if they almost throw up, they think they did a phenomenal job. And they capture that. And the person's probably experienced it before or they see it on TV. What do you see when you watch TV or go on media? Well, your workouts don't, they look like they're supposed to be that way. That's, oh, that's what you're supposed to do to get fit. So you try and do a traditional, real strength training class. You ain't going to get anybody to sign up to show up. And if they do, they'll leave. Cause like, what was that? That was, that was nothing. I mean, what percentage of our job as trainers was getting someone's expectations to change and understand what was happening to their body so that they could follow along with us and do and understand what we were doing. I would say majority 90% 10% was actually instructing 90% was helping that person understand what's going on, what to expect. Yeah. Oh, no, you know, oh, but I'm supposed to be, aren't I supposed to be super sore or I'm not really sweating after my workout. And I have to explain and educate and change their expectations. And then if they were patient, they would start to notice things and they'd be like, wow, I feel really good. And oh my God, this is easier than I thought. And you know, my favorite was always, this is weird. I'm getting leaner. I don't feel like I'm starving myself. What's happening here? So I think there's a lot of education that has to continue to happen. But strength training, it's still to this day, even people who are experienced with fitness, okay, even those people, how many times like the per, like the people that you, you were just talking about the, the example of those fitness people, right? Quote unquote fitness people. If, if we tried to convince them to rest in between sets, they don't listen. No, they don't listen. We can message them all day and be like, Hey, I see what you're doing on your social media. I know you're trying to, you know, heal from whatever damage you did. And you're trying to, whatever part of the problems, you're not resting. Part of the problem is you're taking four exercises and you're combining into one because it makes you sweat more. That's part of the problem. Here's what you should do. It's going to go in one ear out the other. Unless I could get my hands on them and actually train them for a month so they can actually experience what we're talking about. Like a good luck. It's an uphill battle. It's almost impossible. That's why I'm not worried about AI trainers anytime soon. We're going to need real people to always help to, you know, really talk a lot of these people off, off of whatever they're doing right now. There's, there's a lot to unpack based off of like what we get marketed to on a daily basis. And people's expectations are very far removed from the actual experience. So I just, I, it actually, I mean, it's kind of deflating, but it also motivates me that like there's so much opportunity out there still for coaches and trainers. If you do traditional, good, effective, general strength training and you were to add up the time you were actually lifting and add up the time you were resting, guess what? More of your workout is resting for the most part. Yeah. Like a set takes you how long? Typically 30 seconds maybe, right? And you're resting two minutes and three minutes. Yeah. Even a minute and a half. Okay. You rest more than you work. That's a workout. It's hard for people to get right there. They don't, it just makes no sense to them. Yeah. Like what are you doing? We're sitting around, we're resting. You know, how many, you know, in new clients, right? After a while, they understood this, but how many times with new clients would you have this conversation over it? Like, okay, what do we do now? Well, nothing, we rest. We rest, I don't need rest. I feel like I can go again. That's not how it works. And we'd have to explain that. You have to talk about the other part of the equation too, so that the diet culture exacerbates this situation too. Because the people are taught that you cut calories, restrict, restrict. And you also add in this cardio-based type of training. So you have to burn. Like if you were dieting really hard, like what the diet culture is, you know, just cut calories, cut calories, it would be far less detrimental to strength train properly than it would be to do cardio-based, you know, quote unquote strength training. So that's the other part of the equation that I don't think people realize is that that's, you're like double shooting yourself in the foot. Oh, by adding that in? Yeah. Yeah, because now you're adding a signal that says we don't need muscle. That's what I'm saying. And we need to learn how to burn less calories through activity. Yes. So you actually burn muscle. That's where my point. My point is people already diet poorly, right? They swing that pendulum too hard, right? Or they cut way too much too fast. Or they focus just eliminating on the diet and they don't look at balancing or hitting protein and take things like that. And so that's already not a good strategy, diet-wise. But if you were doing that, which is not a good strategy, and at least strength training properly, it would be less detrimental than if you do that with cardio-based type of training. You'd still be preserving muscle. The most important thing you need to focus on when you cut calories. The most important thing is to find a way to not lose muscle or lose as little as possible. That's the most important thing that you could do when you're cutting calories, aside from making sure you get adequate nutrients in the basics. Now, why? Because your body is going to want to pair muscle down. And when it does, it makes, first off, your weight loss become just weight and not body fat. And number two, it makes future weight loss more difficult. And number three, it makes sustaining weight loss very challenging. Makes it very challenging. So anytime you're cutting your calories, your goal should be, how can I maintain my muscle as much as possible? Well, the best way to do that is to do the thing that sends the most, the loudest, most effective muscle building signal to your body, which is traditional strength training. So if you cut your calories really low and you do really good strength training, you're going to lose less muscle for sure than if you cut calories and do nothing. Or if you cut calories and they do forms of exercise that don't send a muscle building signal, that in fact, oftentimes send a signal that says pair muscle down. And the data on this is very clear, very, very clear. Dieting or dieting plus cardio results in significant muscle loss. So you lose 10 pounds, three to five of that is coming from muscle. That doesn't sound so like a great strategy. Speaking of which, Adam, I have to address this. I can't believe I have to keep talking about this. It's so annoying. This has to be the most annoying, frustrating thing that I hear communicated in the fitness space, because it causes so much damage. I hate this. Fitness influencers, there was one in particular did a post and we don't need to call anybody out. So that's to my editors. Don't post who it is. Unless they say something, in which case we'll call them out. But I hate it when they come on there and they say things like trying to build muscle to speed up your metabolism is a waste of time. And then they use this math right here. A pound of muscle burns maybe 12 extra calories a day. What they're doing is they're oversimplifying. Way oversimplifying. They're oversimplifying the second most complex thing we've identified in the universe, which is a million metabolism. Okay. They've oversimplified it to say this much one pound of muscle burns this many calories. That's it. End of story. There's nothing else that plays a role in metabolism. That's just how it is. So gaining muscle, you know, my God, if you gain 10 pounds of muscle, which is really hard, it's only 120 calories. Who cares? It doesn't work that way. And it confuses a lot of people. The average person is going to watch that and go, okay, well, then I guess it's a waste of time. I'm just going to try and eat as little as possible because why, why try to positively affect my metabolism? You know, I've been voicing this for a while, man. I get so fired up about that. Desired outcome. Well, I remember the very first time I talked about on the show, I got really pissed because I, I used to use example, the original research that came out that they had estimate, which by the way, that just shows you how much this has changed to like still the original research estimated somewhere between 40 and 60 calories a day more that muscle would, and I used to love that number, not because I believed that it would be so exact or true, but that it gave me a number that I could give my clients like an analogy or say, imagine if we can just add five pounds of muscle to your body, that's like a big macaday that your metabolism naturally is going to burn just by it. And it would put in perspective how powerful building the metabolism is and building muscle is. And so it would, it would help me get buy in from my client on why we'd want to focus this. So that was the, that was early research in early days of mine pumps. This is seven, eight years ago when I would talk about that. I remember first, this was the, some of the original stuff where I'd get messages and, you know, your fitness dork that was on the latest research on what that was saying that would be arguing with me. No, it's 10 calories. Oh, that's five calories. That's a way over. That was, that's false. That's not true anymore. The more recent studies show that it's more like 17 calories or whatever it is. And meanwhile, I have all these case studies of clients where all we've added is five pounds of muscle, yet they're eating 500, 800 more calories a day virtually doing the same stuff. By the way, that's common. You're not talking about like an extreme example. No, that was all the time. Everybody, everybody, everybody that I've ever got to eat or to build five or 10 pounds of muscle in their body radically changed what they could consume. Now, what we also miss in that conversation, this is why I hate deducing everything down to a six month scientific study about one part of the body because none of the body works that way. There's so many other factors, not just physiologically, but even psychologically and behaviorally. So what happens to a client that, you know, case, first of all, we know how difficult it is to build five pounds of muscle. It takes discipline around your diet. It takes consistency around hitting protein. It takes consistency around lifting weights. It is consistent. It consistency around rest. So a lot goes in to somebody who actually added five pounds of muscle to their body frame. What else do you think happens behaviorally and psychologically to that person who did that? Absolutely. Their habits change. Their energy levels are more. They probably even move like their, which the term I'm looking for, for when they're not intentionally, they're neat. Their neat goes up. There's so many things that are happening that you don't even want. When they go and they lift weights now, they, because they built muscle, they feel stronger. So their intensity naturally goes up and all that. There's so many things that get incrementally turned up or changed that collectively make an impact on the metabolism and how many calories your body burns throughout the day. So to do sit down to a stupid, your one pound of muscle versus one pound of fat, what is the difference of calories it burns is such a terrible message to present to so many people out there that are struggling with weight loss because one of the best and most powerful things that you can do to age your fat loss is to actually build muscle. It will make that not only easier for it to happen for you, but also sustainable. And anybody else that says otherwise, fuck you. It's a fact. All the protective benefits you get from muscle and all these new studies and everything that came out and like, there's just so much more it does for your immune system for all the other systems. Again, to your point. To work better. It's not just a one-to-one here we're working with. This is a, you know, sustainable. Yeah, but hormones. Look, hormones. We also know this, okay, we also know this, that the same lean body mass, okay, not changing your lean body mass, there seems to be a range of calories that a person can burn, all things being equal. So activity controlled, everything controlled, same lean body mass, but some differences in diet or stress or whatever. The body will burn more or less calories. Okay, your body can become more wasteful or less wasteful with how it produces and makes energy. That's a fact. By the way, if it was as easy as saying a pound of muscle burns 12 calories and that's that, then we would be able to take two people with the exact same lean body mass and we'd be able to calculate that they burn exactly the same calories so long as they move the same. It doesn't work that way. Or I'd be able to change someone's hormones, change nothing else while of a sudden they're leaner. Why are you getting leaner? Because I changed your hormones. Building muscle doesn't just burn more calories because you have more muscle. It also has androgen receptor densities, increase, improves insulin sensitivity. It's a storage vessel for glycogen. It produces chemicals that we're just learning about now that are anti-inflammatory, pro-fat loss, that improve cognitive function. Like, and not only that, but the metabolism is so complex, we still have yet to fully understand it. It's so arrogant of us to do that. It's so dumb to look at a study that says that and basically what you're doing, this is what makes me so mad, right? It makes me so mad because it's gaslighting people. Medical community, or should I say people who represent it, maybe in media, can often do this. Well, where all these people are experiencing things like, my kid, when they eat, you know, red dye number, whatever, they act crazy and all these moms are like, my kid does too and they're like, no, no, you're full of credit. It doesn't work, it's in your head. It's all in your head, your kid probably lost sleep, your kid, whatever, right? And then years later, study comes out, oh, shit, some kids are sensitive to red dye number, whatever, I can't remember the number, but there's actual red dye that some kids are sensitive to. Food intolerances, right? Leaky gut syndrome or whatever. It's so annoying because we get gaslit. Coaches and trainers who hear that stupid message from fitness influencers, some of these with a million followers, noise of shit out of me, feel like they're being gaslit. Like, wait a minute, I've trained a lot of people. I've seen my clients go from eating 1200 calories to eating 2200 calories and she gained like five pounds of muscle, I'm not packing 40 pounds of muscle on her and she's leaner and her activity level doesn't add up to the amount of calories that she's burning out because in fact, she was doing so much cardio before I switched her to strength training. So how does that make any sense? And then what are they being told? Oh, you're not, you must not be calculating properly. You're not counting, like, no, no, no, you're an idiot. It's like, it's like women will complain about this when they go to the doctor. They'll go to the doctor and they complain about these symptoms and the doctor will be like, it's all in your head. No, no, no, you're fine, it's all in your head. You leave and you're questioning reality. It's so terrible. But the part that makes me most pissed off about this is how much damage are these idiots with all these followers doing when they maybe hear a message because we're starting to popularize the message, right, that building muscles is a great way to burn body fat, right? Maybe they heard that message somewhere and they're like, oh, I heard, I heard building muscles a good idea. You know, I know I've tried to lose weight before and it was really hard and, you know, I did all the cardio and I cut my calories, that crazy, it was impossible to sustain and I gained it back. Now I'm hearing building muscle. Maybe I should start strength training to lose fat. And then someone sends them the stupid clip of this moron being like, one pound of muscle, only burns 12 cal. Oh yeah, you know what, I guess you're right, I'm not gonna try strength training. I'm gonna go back to my orange theory classes where I'm gonna go back to what I did before causing so much freaking damage. It's not even funny. Again, trainers and coaches have experienced this time and time again. You can reverse diet people, you can speed up metabolism, you can slow metabolism down. Some of it has to do with the muscle building process. Some of it is a bit mysterious, but we do know for a fact through experience that if you do the things necessary to build muscle and you start to build muscle and get stronger, you don't need to build a ton of it, but if you move in that direction, even if you don't build muscle, you see a positive influence in terms of a faster metabolism and it's predictable. It's reliable and predictable. There's a lifestyle and behavioral benefits that you just can't even argue that. No, that's the part two that pisses me off because we do that so much in the space and one of the things, and it took me over a decade of training people before I realized like, oh my God, all this schooling, all these certifications, all this stuff that I based everything off the science, like 90% of my job became centered around behavioral science, which none of that is taught for us trainers. It's not like they go in and go like, that is gonna be where you focus most of your time. That's where I spent all of my time later. That's like, it's just like the artificial sweetener crowd. It's not bad. Data shows it's not bad. It's whatever, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, okay, but why is it that people go and try to trick artificially sweetened beverages and they don't lose weight? Oh, because they're eating more of other food. Okay, well, why are we discrediting that? Do you don't think that that may be influencing them to eat more or maybe there's something else that's going on? Or maybe the perception of sweetness has a lot more to do in just calories. Maybe that can alter somebody's behaviors as well. You don't think that they're, you think it's just innocuous because in a controlled setting where everything's totally controlled, which is not real life, that you can definitely cut someone's calories with artificial sweeteners and they'll lose weight. Yet in the real world, we have artificial sweeteners have been around for a long time. Zero impact, zero impact on obesity. It hasn't helped anybody. It helps competitors who track every single thing they put in their mouth. That's always been my discussion with them. So, yeah, oh, there's no data to show that it causes cancer, even though maybe it does. And I don't know, whatever. And in this control, I don't care. I've never had a client, never had a client where that was a game changer. Yeah. Artificial. It's never been helpful. It was never a game changer for me, ever. You know, the irony of that whole thing you're talking about, I posted in our forum expressing my disappointment, right? Because it happens to be somebody who I actually like and I like a lot of their stuff and I was really disappointed in that post just because of how large their following is and how many I know confuse people. The irony of it was our forum is constantly moving, right? There's lots of people that are engaged and talking in there all the time. And so you could put a post up and then seconds later, someone else is putting a post up and it's constantly moving. The very next post that hit with less than 15 seconds after I pushed my, which this lady obviously was already typing this while I was typing mine, pops right up underneath me. And it's literally somebody who has tried dieting their whole life, struggled, it had up and down, up and down. Finally listened to our messaging around focus on getting strong, throw the scale away, don't worry about that, just build muscle, build muscle. And she's expressing where her calories were at when she first started this journey and where it was like, I will look it up, maybe Doug can pull it up and find it in there. But it was like 1500 calories to like 2500 calories. You cannot tell me this woman built 40 pounds of muscle. She didn't fucking build 40 pounds of muscle, but I believe her when she says she was eating 1500 and now she's eating 2500 and she's not gaining any weight, because I've seen that happen a thousand fucking times. First hand. And I know she didn't put 40 pounds of muscle on. So the irony of that post, you know, going out and then I literally had just wrote about it and talked about it. And then right after that, somebody sharing an experience they just had to finally listen to that advice or ours of stop worrying about the scale so much, stop worrying about cutting so hard, build some muscle, get stronger, focus on that, trust the process, get rid of the scale. I promise it'll pay off for you and her thanking us for that experience. I could have thought that was so, so, so wild, right? That's crazy. All right, here comes the show. Hey, did you guys, what do you, so do you think we should talk about that FDA thing on the peptides? Do you think we should bring that up? Because that's an internal memo. I do want you to talk about it because I want. Interesting. A part of me that was a little concerned about it and should I be concerned? Or is this just... I think it's a warning. It's a prequel is what's happening. Like I'm going to pull it up here. I got to find it. It's in our post with Jay, but it's interesting. So it's a... Is this just because they're getting more attention and popularity because of the GLP ones and whatnot? Well, funny thing is GLP ones were not put in this. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh, because those are now patented. Yeah. So this was FDA, this is... So right now, you can get peptides legally through a pharmacy if a doctor prescribes it and compounding pharmacies will make it for you. Okay. They'll produce it. So these are real pharmacies, right? Look, we work with MPHormones.com is our link. You go there. You work with a doctor. They can do hormone replacement therapy and they can prescribe you peptides. Okay. And we've done now, I don't know, four or five episodes with experts on peptides. One of my favorites was with Dr. Seeds where they talk about the benefits, why they're not like drugs and so on and so forth. And I have experience now using them. I think they're pretty phenomenal. But they're not... You can't patent them. It'd be very difficult to patent them. Because of how they're made and you can change it. It's amino acid. Yeah. And it's just they're easy to... So you'd have to have special regulations now. They'd have to create a new regulation to kind of stop this, right? Because peptides have incredible promise for treating chronic illness, disease, and stuff like that. And that's in direct competition with things that are patented. So they want to put the brakes on this whole process. Well, so they put out this memo and it says safety risks associated with certain bulk drug substances nominated for use in compounding. And they named quite a few. BPC-157 was in there. And just CJC-1295 is in there. Dihexas in there and more. And they put them in there and they're basically saying like, hey, we got to kind of start looking at this. Typically what this means is they're basically letting everybody know we're about to drop the hammer and make it so that compound pharmacies are not going to be able to make these things, which is annoying to me to say the least. I think it's really frustrating because then your only option will be to go through research chemical labs, which are now unregulated, which you can do now, but you could still go through a pharmacy now, which is ideal, right? Because it's under the same, they have to meet certain regulatory standards and doctors have to prescribe them. But if they do go through and ban them, it's going to make that market, that gray market explode and if they block that gray market, then you'll have a black market and... I mean, what is the likelihood of that's the direction it's going to go? Do you think it's highly... With them releasing this, I think it's pretty good. I think it's pretty good. I wouldn't say 80%, 90%. I'd say we're, it's on the radar for sure that this is potential for them. Otherwise, they wouldn't have put out this memo, this internal memo or whatever to... So we'll see what happens. But it seems to be the path that they go whenever things are available that are efficacious, are released that have the potential, this is my own opinion, that have the potential to out-compete prescription drugs. I mean, the pharmaceutical industry is massive. They have the biggest lobby in the world. They're very intricate in time. They can't control the market. Exclusively, you tend to see patterns of these sort of making their way out of the market. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see what ends up happening. But yeah, I'm hoping it doesn't go in that direction. Because then, I mean, there's a lot of people who are like, oh my God, it's funny they listed BPC 157, most widely used, probably safest, one of the safest peptides, lots of health benefits. Such a helpful one. Athletes, yeah, using it. People with injuries using it. Speeds up healing probably because it's so popular that was listed on there. Maybe because I don't know. I mean, people use that and don't use. Did you talk to our, we hope they don't do that. We have a new friend in the space that hasn't been introduced to our audience yet, but we'll soon have a deal. No, I should ask him. Yeah. I would love for you to talk to a deal about it. Yeah. I feel like he would have an even better pulse on that since how connected he is. Yeah. Yeah. Strange that he didn't bring that up when we were together because that. This came out after. Oh, okay. When we got that, it had just come out. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you have to ask him. Yeah. Yeah, I'd like to hear his. We'll see. Well, I mean, I mean, look, I'll give you an example. We'll know earlier. I'll give you an example of how weird they are. NAC, Nacidal Cysteine, I think is how you pronounce it. NAC was a supplement that has been available for decades, two decades, two and a half decades. Okay. It, when you take it, it increases glutathione production in the liver. It's got some protective, very, very, like some documented protective effects on the lungs. During COVID, there were some studies coming out showing that NAC could be a really important nutrient to take. And there were studies showing that low glutathione levels were connected to being hospitalized from COVID during that period of time. Added nowhere. Okay. Remember, NAC was available and supplement source forever. Very safe, whatever. Added nowhere. They put out a notice. Stop selling this. We're going to start regulating this. Now they since backtracked, interesting enough, but I remember you couldn't buy NAC on Amazon. Amazon's like, oops, we can't sell this anymore. And they've done this before with, with, with other things. It's really, Yeah. No competing treatments. Can't help with your conspiracy. Cackles that go up with stuff. Oh, I mean, meanwhile they're, so it's kind of funny. I was looking at what they've done over the years to animals and experiments and all these kinds of things. There was a latest one that I saw that I was kind of laughing, but with octopus. And so scientists have figured out a way, because if they've had a hard time, I guess in some isolated incidents of getting them to mate, because they get really hostile with each other. They play, they play Barry Winters. So now they're giving them ecstasy, basically. What? They didn't have a great success with it. Really? Yeah. So explain that, you know, like I'm, I'm like studying my whole life to be a scientist, you know, I get into the, to research. How fun. Animals and now I'm get to play with ecstasy in animals. Making them have sex. Yeah. I mean, I don't remember which one of you brought up first. Whose idea was that? I have no idea about that. I don't remember which one of you brought it up first, but I remember it was a long time ago. We, we went down this rabbit hole of all the different animals that seek all these like psychedelic like things. Oh yeah. Like there's a lot like, like weird stuff that I didn't, like the, like the birds that would allow like red ants to, to bite. Sting them to the high. Yeah, sting them underneath their wing and like, there's a lot of animals that do things chasing these, these interesting highs. Or they'll eat like fermented fruit. Yeah. And get drunk off of it. Yeah. Mushrooms. Yeah. Isn't that movie cocaine bear based on a real story? It is, but it's all exact. I mean, it's, yeah. But I can't think of anything more terrifying than, I don't mind an octopus on ecstasy. That'd be kind of cool. A bear on cocaine. You better get the hell out. Can you imagine all those little tentacles there? They're just like, oh man, but like it's the ultimate rave of partner. Something weird anime porn. Did you see what the article said at the top? No, I missed it. Scroll up to the top. I love that. I thought I saw MDMA. The octopuses. It's octopuses? I thought it was octopi. I know. I think both are correct. Wow. Okay. Thanks, Doug. Octopuses get strangely cuddly on the mood drug ecstasy. What, what do you mean strangely? Yeah. Why is that strange? Said someone who's never taken that drug. Weird. No idea what happened. We got, we got octopus to create, to pitch business ideas by giving them cocaine. All of a sudden they were talking about working together making business ideas. This is obviously, that's an old article where you're reading some old shit. I guess, I, you know, you would sell some of the crosses. You would sell have some random shit sometimes and come up and be like, this just happened. 1997. No, it was 2018. That's not that long ago. I guess it is, right? Was that six years? Yes, that's cool. It's a little ways ago. Dude, Justin, I gotta ask you this. You might know who this is. Have you ever heard of it? I like scary, like scary myths and like moth man and shit like that. I've heard of a new one. Apparently this was pretty popular and there's videos of it. Have you heard of Babar Zags? No. The Serbian Dancing Lady? No. Doug, look up. I have not. Doug, look up B-A-B-A-R and then Z-A-G-S. That's the two words, or Serbian Dancing Lady on, so. Can you shout out Organify while he's doing that? Oh, is this some, okay. Yeah, actually, you know, speaking of Organify, I started drinking the green juice every day again. I haven't done that in a while. Every time I start up again, I'm upset that I stopped. Yeah. Very good. I'm only really good and consistent when I travel with it. I've trained myself that we keep all the packets at the house. It always makes me feel good. It's just a feel-good supplement of that. And I should because I'm not, I think you're actually the best out of all of us with your large servings of vegetables. I mean, I never a day goes by that I don't have any vegetables, but I would say one meal a day is what I have a decent-sized serving, which I don't think enough for me. Definitely, I remember after we had, what doctor was that? What's her name? Oh, Dr. Terry Walsh. Yeah, I remember Walsh. Yeah, I know, I know. I mean, that really hit a home kick after that. Yeah, I was on a hardcore kick after that because the amount of vegetables that she was saying to really maximize all the micronutrients that you're getting from it was way more than I was getting close to, so which also led me to be more consistent with the Organified Juice. And I've stayed that way with travel because I just made that habit, but when I'm home, I have to be better about it. I'm like that too, so, but I just started, I don't know if you guys see me, I've been throwing it in my water. I always feel great, so I'll start back up. You know me, I'll be consistent for a little while. Did you find it, Doug? Her name again, B-A-B-A-R, and then Z-A-G-S. So there's videos, so I'll tell you what the myth is, or what the story is. It's this woman, this random woman that you'll run into in the middle of the night, or you'll see out your window. And if she sees you, she starts dancing. She starts doing the Serbian dancing, and she'll dance until she catches your attention. And when she catches your attention, she'll block eyes with you and then kill you. What? And there's videos of her dancing, just like this. Wait, wait. Look at this, look at this. What do you mean, kill you? That's the Serbian dancing lady. So, and she dances like that every time. There's tons of videos on this woman, just randomly doing that in the middle of the night. And then there's been videos of people walking up to her, and then she looks at them and then goes after them. What? Yeah. How's she not in prison, bro? Because it's a ghost, obviously, Adam. Oh, you're saying that this is like not a real person? No, it's like a scary entity. They're not dying, though, for real. There's been some, I mean, I don't know. The myth is that there's been some, see, there's reporting on it. Oh, they're actually reporting on it. Yeah, look, look. She'll see you, if she sees you, she dances to lure you in, and it's that same weird dance. And then there's been some murders connected with the Serbian dancing. What? I know. It's in a specific town in Serbia, and there is a lot of local authorities' complaints on it. I haven't seen anything about deaths, but even the local Serbian news covers it. See, I wanted the backstory of this lady, right? If you're going to create this legend behind this, what caused her to want to harm people? There's always something. We actually got into this show that's captivating us right now. We're into the ghost shows and all that kind of stuff, right? You're back on that kick? We're back on that kick. There's one on Discovery Channel that really gets no airtime that should, and it's a place in Montana where they actually took a bunch of different abandoned buildings and put them all like, they were trying to do an Airbnb thing, and so it was like, they were trying to get a little boom town, and so they transplanted these old abandoned buildings. Hell no. And all of them are totally haunted. It's been sold from one person to the next person, and anyways, this one lady is like, you find out her back story is totally like what brought a lot of this stuff there, but she buys it because she's so attracted to this property. She's attracted to this dark kind of energy there, and it's an old mining town, so there's all these creepy holes that go underneath the town and everything they didn't know about, and obviously with mining towns, there's cave-ins and a lot of people have died, and so they go through this whole history of the area and all these murders and all these things, and it's crazy because she actually meddled with the occult and all that beforehand and had brought these bones with her, not knowing that she's bringing all this dark magic stuff with her. She's bringing what, are the human bones? Yeah. What do you think he's going to bring? She was like, oh, I just liked the bones, and I didn't think this related to what was going on here. There's all this paranormal activity and crazy stuff. Anyway, I could go on about it, but it's very like... What is this on? It's on Discovery Channel. What's it called? Oh, god, I don't remember the name of it, but it's like some kind of crazy haunted town that... I love that stuff. And she... Dude, and it gets even towards... She's like possessed, and they have to do an exorcism. Dude, it's awesome. Dude, have you guys ever played with a Ouija board? Fuck no, bro. Wait, hold on. My friends had... No, wait, man, I don't know. You couldn't pay me to do that now. I did. I know you didn't tell me about that before. Yeah, I did it a few times when I was a kid. Yeah, no. That's why you're all fucked up, bro. Because we had to do all that therapy. Now you got an attachment on you. What a dick, bro. You brought that shit on yourself, bro. Wow. I'm going to the wrong person. Yeah, bro. I should have told you you did, bro. Father Steve. Father Steve needs to come. Father Steve was... I spent a hell of money on therapy. Bro, a bunch of holy water on you, dude. I still... I don't know what's happening. It's still weird. I don't know. You could have been that Ouija board you played with, kid. You figured it out, man. You got some spirits inside you, bro. See, I would meddle just enough, you know, and then scare... You know, it's kind of fun to get scared, but I would never... I'm convinced that Ouija boards... Even as a kid, I was convinced. I'm convinced that there's... Like, because you're supposed to have, like, all your hands on it, right? That one of the fucking kids is just pushing... Somebody's moving it. The odds that somebody in the group is going to be an asshole is high. That's why it works. I do have to mention this one guy, all right, so that does the documentary of this thing. Like, so his... Like, he started out with the same thing. He was attracted to this property. He's in the why he's attracted to this property. He ends up, like, getting consumed by this dark energy falls. And he gets really, like, obsessed with, like, occult stuff and, like, wants to learn all these techniques of how to, like, you know, do the ghost hunter tracking devices and he uses recorders, he uses lasers and all these things, like, to try and, like, show movement. And he tries to be all scientific about it. But then he pulls stuff out where he's like, what the hell are you thinking, dude? Like, he calls it... I forget what he called it, but it was, like, this room full of mirrors and he's sitting there trying to, like, communicate to whatever dark spirit is. Like, are you, like, psycho? Like, why would you, like, literally sit there and try your best to, like, communicate? And then he's like, I gotta, like, deprive myself of sensory, like, any kind of input. So he puts, like, these things over his eyes and, like, his face and he's just sitting in there and then, like, you know, obviously, like, gets scared and, like, he freaks out. And I'm like, dude, you're just, like, he literally is just meddling. It's called the ghost town. Is that the name of it? Is that what that says? Ghost town terror. Ghost town terror. Yeah, that's it. What made you think it was scary? I don't know. I mean, it's Halloween season. You know, you kind of get into that. I'm just decorated. I saw you guys got your stuff up. Are you done or are you still got stuff going? We're just starting, yeah. So we got a lot more to kind of put up. Yeah, I'm in trouble. So you don't think Katrina's all mad at me. Why? Because I did, like, kind of scary stuff and she's like, why did you do that? Oh, because you're inviting me. Does Max love you? He does. He's actually okay with it, although he did have a nightmare after the first day I put it all up. So, I mean. Oh, is it? That's, it's like, grotesque. Oh, I have like a, I have like a scale. I have a skeleton that opens up and it like says all kinds of evil shit. And like, yeah. That's too soon. The kids like. I know. He's poor. I guess. So she's like. Didn't you say that what you, you got a big one that flew over? Yeah, that's the one I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. So I have that one that, I mean, it bent the arm and that had, now that like the mouth, the mouth used to open and say a bunch of shit. And now he just says it. He does his, his mouth. How much was it? It was not cheap. Oh, I was pretty upset about that. Have you guys seen this? These are old now, but I remember they first came out. It was the best Halloween decoration I've ever seen in my life. It was a mirror and it looked like a regular mirror, but it's actually like a screen. And if you look at it, a face pops on it, pops up in it, and then it all of a sudden comes up to you. Yes. The first time I saw that, I was like, this is. So I bought one of the, I actually have two holograms that I bought. So I have a hologram for outside that casts like the girl from like the ring. So she's casted up on my door and then I have like these three windows that are, that are facing the main walkway or the street or whatever. And I got a projector that makes the, looks like people are like clawing at the window. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. So I got that. So we went all out this year. Did you see there was a bath mat that you can buy? People have done this for pranks. If you get it wet, it looks like you're bleeding. So it looks like blood, but it's water. So people do this for pranks. They'll put them out and they'll videotape like their partner getting out and they're like, oh shit, what the hell is happening? Yeah, it looks like blood. It's pretty cool. I might get one of those. Anyway, so we are going to be getting more chocolate bone broth from Paleo Valley. They sell that out, man, pretty fast. I got us more though. Did you ask about, okay, so I saw they did the whole chocolate donut ad. Obviously that's from what you said. Did they admit that? That's what I never asked them. I should ask them. Oh, you didn't? No. Oh, I thought for sure you would ask about that. I'll have Katrina ask and she obviously is the one who works with all the companies. But I got them to send us a bunch. I'm really curious about if they saw anything with the ads, if they did better because of that, because of the ads. So I don't know. I didn't even think to have her do that. Right now we're in the middle of doing that for next year, right? Negotiating all contracts right now. And I don't think we've got to Paleo Valley yet. So I'll have her. Well, I like with the bone broth that actually it's the, you know, with all the insensitivities that I like, you know. You mean sensitivities or sensitivity? I'm drinking it every day now. Sensitivities. I'm drinking it almost every day now. See? Oh yeah, no. Easy to digest. What I love about it is the point that I made last time we brought it up is that I can add three, four, five scoops. No problem. Yeah. And it doesn't feel like. Oh, it's like water. Yeah. And so I could have a really high protein. So which is actually really nice because in the past, I've always talked about how I like to use protein shakes. I use it at the end of the night. It's the goal is always to not have to use it. The goal is always to get through Whole Foods. The reality of if I'm not getting four plus meals a day, I'm normally a little lighter short. And what's cool is that I could literally control the amount of grant like before when I would do that, there's only so much I could push the way or else I would, like it would, my digestion would be a mess. You're a fart machine. Yeah, it was a mess, right? So I would always have to be at least 40 to 50 grams away. And that's otherwise I couldn't push the way. Oh, I've done over a hundred grams of the. I haven't pushed that far, but I've definitely pushed up to five or six scoops. I did a hundred grams in a shake, in a shake, not through the day, in one shake. What's five? Five is. Five. That's what is it? 16? 13 or 16? No, no, no. I think it's 13. 13. Okay. So that's like 60, 60 grams. 60, 70 grams. Yeah. I've done that no problem. And it mixes super easy. You don't even need that much water or whatever. No, no, no. That's good. So I'm not on it, right? So it's so funny because you were pushing that for so long. And I'm like, yeah, I'll get around to it. Yeah. I want to ask you. I want to ask you guys something on there. I just got my revolver. I'd love for you guys to get yourselves a handgun so we could go target practice. Yeah. Yeah. Because neither one of you guys, I know you have a shotgun. You got a shotgun. Yeah. Doug has a handgun or two. I've been meaning to. I just haven't got around to it. It's a process. Is this a headache? No. Listen, it's actually we get it sent to a shop. It's easy to think. Go online. Yeah. There's a website, no affiliation, so you don't get mentioned. You can go online. You order it. You'll find the California legal ones because apparently we have buds that you use. Thank you. Yeah. That's I wasn't going to say. Is it easy for us to have? I'll see. Yeah. I mean, you have to get California legal. Yeah. You can't get. So anyway, you order and there's a lot of this stuff you can order. So you get it and you select a dealer in the area that they could ship it to and there's a lot of them. It's really easy. You wait for them to ship it there. Yeah. Then you go there. You fill out some paperwork. You have to bring two proofs of to residents, residency proofs. So I think it's like a house. Yeah. Something like that. Right. And then you have to pass the handgun course to get a handgun. Car is 25 bucks. By the way, they make that test like it's almost impossible to fail. It's done. It's like, when is it a good idea to have your finger on the trigger? Should you always treat a gun like it's loaded? Like, obviously. Yeah. Obvious ones. And you do that and then you wait. I think it's there's a 10 day or two week waiting period. Yeah. And you go back and pick it up and then you're set. So I got my I'm a family. I've already taken that handgun. How long is it? How long has it had the two years? Oh, yeah, it's been longer, two years since I did that. But I'm a fan of revolvers. And I've always wanted to drop them in the water. They could do anything. I mean, it's just they're easy to use. Easy to load, easy to handle. I like the way they look. They're cool. I grew up watching movies with revolvers. I think they're fun. So I got myself a 357, which I always wanted when I was a kid. It's a big cannon. It is. It is. That's a big. It is. It's going to be a good time. I can't wait. Yeah. All those old West saddles. He was. Yeah. I've got to talk to Scott. He was setting up a thing for us all to go shooting. So he had every or he was ex marine guy that was going to take us when I was looking up at the calibers. I'm sure I'm sure some gun some gun fanatics. I might get something wrong here. But when I was reading up on like the calibers, I was looking up 9 millimeter versus 357, which ones, you know, whatever, 357 hits harder. Yeah. So it's more powerful. The 44 Magnum, which is bigger. Do you know what that was invented for? Large game hunting. Yeah. Okay. Histol. Large game hunting. Histol. Yeah. Yeah. People get that for their home. What are you trying? What are you going to do? Explode someone? That's crazy. No, I've actually heard. I don't know who I heard say this, but I actually heard someone recommend like just a 22 for home defense, not because because you're less likely to kill them, but enough to like deter them from actually doing anything. And every police officer like California law and stuff like that because of how ridiculous it is when it comes to like home protection, you can't just shoot anybody who invades your house. So every police officer, I used when I did Jiu Jitsu, I had a lot of there were a lot of cops that came in there and asked them this question. This is before is when I was thinking about you always shoot the kill. That's right. They said you'd rather be, what was it, would they say? You'd rather be judged by however many is a jury than carried by, you know, by 12 or whatever. So in other words, if you have to pull the trigger, they're going to fire back. If you have to pull the trigger, then make sure you kill them and then deal with the law afterwards was what they told me. So they said, yeah, get something, but they recommended a shotgun for shotgun home defense. That's what they always said. Yeah, that's right. So this is just for fun for for target practice. Yeah. No, I'm down. I'm definitely down. All right, let's do it. All of us to do that. You know what? I meant to ask you the other day because you've been talking a lot about the trend on homeschooling. And I actually took this screenshot because I was so blown away by the numbers. Have you actually seen what the the numbers are? Like as far as like how many people were homeschooling, just say like 10 less than 10 years ago. I'm sure it's exploded. Yeah, dude, it's it's well, yeah, no, it's of course it's exploded. But COVID accelerated that. It wasn't it was a number. Oh, man, where am I going to? I knew I just took a screenshot of this and I wanted to oh, here it is. So 1970s. I had this as 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000, 210, 220s. Okay. 1970s. How many homeschoolers? What percentage? Just would know number total. How many? Oh, I have no idea. 13,000. Yeah, it's nothing. 13,000 homeschoolers. I'll jump all the way to then huge trend all the way up to 200,000, then 850,000 homeschoolers by the 90s. By 2000s, 1.5 homeschoolers now. You know where it's at 2020 now? Where? Five million. Wow. Isn't that crazy? So I'd like to see as a crazy I would like to see it because obviously population population grew. So I'd like to see as a percentage close to that. No, no, no. I'd like to see as a percentage of kids in school. What that looks like. But I know it's I know after during COVID. Well, I mean, you can easily go like this go to 1970s. What what was the population at 1970 and then look at the population in 2020 and get your number right there. Yeah, of total population. Well, I mean, that's the school children. Yeah, but it's going to be something more accurate. Maybe, right? Yeah. I mean, we're not. Are we haven't we're actually having less less kids? Yeah, we are. Then we were. So actually that it would go in our favor. So yeah, be crazy. Yeah, what was the population in 1970 here in America? Let's see here. It was 203 million people. And I think it's around 330 or 340. Oh God. Yeah. So what a huge increase in percentage and we are we're having less kids. We're almost double the population. And you're talking about 13,000. This is a crisis. Five million. That's a huge. That's crazy. It's a crisis for a public sort of massive dent. Did you know some countries make it illegal, illegal to homeschool? Did you know in Germany, there was a there was a couple. Yes, there was a couple that came to the U.S. to homeschool their kids. They live in Tennessee. Maybe Doug can look them up. German couple. They're going to get. What's the what's the term when you get kicked out and get sent back to your home country extradited? They're going to go to jail for homeschooling their kids. What? Doug, look this up, because this is an article someone sent me. What? I know. That's crazy. Because in some countries it's it's. Deported is the word I think. Deported, yeah. Because it's illegal. What's extradited then? Like a criminal perhaps that's being sent to another country for. That would be extradited. Well, for trial or something like that. So think about like. Deported is like an illegal alien. Yeah. Well, I mean. This is criminal. They're not criminal in the U.S. Well, they're criminal in their other country. That's what you're saying? Oh, did he say that? Okay. That's what you're saying. You're saying that in their country it's illegal to homeschool. They came to the U.S. to do it. Yeah, and they got. I got to find the article because it was really. I mean, it was really crazy. It's facing deportation. Oh, you pick it up? Yeah, I did. So read it. Because this is insane. I can't believe this. Yeah. So a German family who saw asylum for homeschooling faces deportation after 15 years in the U.S. Wow. Yeah. To homeschool. Like that's nuts. Isn't that crazy? That's a lot. That's a lot of. Let them be. How many countries it's illegal? Of course, because if you homeschool it bankrupts their system. Yep. It's also let's be let's be honest. Potentially. Okay. So everybody relax. Potentially if you want state indoctrination. Yes. The most effective form. Of course. That's always a factor. Potentially. Everybody. It's a factor. Calm down. Calm down. All right. We got a shout out. We always by the way, every time we talk about this stuff, I don't know if you guys get that. I always have the emails of teachers. Going nuts. Oh, yes. I have a lot of teachers in my family. Oh, good. So do I. That's why my mom is my best friend is. My best friend's wife is. I got a lot of teachers in my family at public schools, by the way. Same. And the thing that, and I should say this since that we brought this up because you know what I say about trainers in our industry? There's a lot of shitty trainers. Yeah. It's a fact. Our industry has done a shitty job. It's a fact. Like so sorry that the school as a whole, it doesn't. We're trying to repair our image. By the way, that doesn't mean I think that every teacher is bad or every school is bad. I 100% believe there's incredible teachers out there that are doing the best they can in public schools that are impacting lots of kids' lives. But as a whole, we're failing. Bro, go. That industry is failing our kids the same way the fitness industry is failing our population. Do you know what's frustrating when you go to like parent-teacher conferences? And there's obvious stuff like your kids doing this, your kids talking, whatever, fine. But then if you ever hear this, this is the most frustrating thing all over here in my entire life from a teacher. Your child, they do their work, you know, they get the A or whatever, but you know, they can definitely go above and beyond. And I want to reply to them and be like, your fucking job is inspire them. They're going to do what you tell them, which is do this to get the grade, which is what anybody, that makes sense, that's logical. If you want them to go above and beyond to be inspired, that's what your job is. Inspire them to do so. Right? If I had, I always took responsibility for my clients. Like it's my job. You have to have passion to pull that off. Yeah, dude. Because kids are bored, man. They're bored in class. Some teachers do have that. They do. You know, there's some. Well, in their defense though too, they're also confined to this structure. Totally. They have to do it with it. And you got 32. Like imagine, imagine this. Imagine being trainers and being told to be the best trainer you could be. Here's your curriculum. But you have to teach. Yeah. You have to teach orange theory. You know what I'm saying? It's like you have to, you have to teach this way and you have to follow, you have to follow carnivore diet. It's like you imagine being given parameters and then being told go out there and change lives. Like so in their defense, like, you know, they don't get a lot of autonomy when it comes to how they want to teach these kids or what they would focus on. And that's really unfortunate. I have friends that do a lot of homeschooling. They're very good at it. You know how much time their kids spend homeschooling during the day? Not very much. An hour? Yeah. Two. And you know what they tell me? First two hours is really all their work done. You know what they tell me? I don't know what kids are doing in school all day long. Nothing. They're not doing anything. And their kids score crazy high and do really well. So anyway, let's do the the shout out. You had, you had Coleman Hughes, right? Yeah, Coleman Hughes. I heard, I found him on the all in podcast. They actually interviewed him. He had a really good Ted Talks. About 13 minutes long, but so worth a watch, especially in today's climate. I think it's a super valuable one for everybody to watch. Really, really good. And there was some controversy around it. Which is weird. Yeah. I don't think it's controversial. Yeah. And if you want to know about the controversy, you can go to all in podcast, watch their interview with Coleman Hughes because they get into all of it. The video that he did, the talk is called The Case for, A Case for Colorblindness. Yes. Really good. Worth a watch, Ted Talk, about 13 minutes long. Excellent watch. Check it out. All right. There's a company called NeutroSense which combines the science and technology of continual glucose monitors that measure your glucose in real time. So you can tie it to foods and how they affect you with nutrition coaches on the other end. In other words, these people will work with you and your physiology to maximize your diet. This is the most effective way to get lean and stay lean. It's about as individualized as a diet can get. It is a groundbreaking company. Go check them out and get yourself $30 off. Go to NeutroSense.io. That's N-U-T-R-I sense.io forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump and get that discount. All right. Back to the show. Our first caller is Angus from Australia. Angus, what's happening? Good day, guys. How you going? Good. What's happening? No much. Just here very early in the morning, 3.30. Just wanted to get up and send you guys a question. You have to excuse me. I'm pretty nervous. I feel a bit of a bit starstruck. No worries. Don't worry, Justin's nervous too. Yeah. This isn't real anyway. It's all A.I. I sweat a lot. So, yeah, guys. Basically, my question. So, I'll try and be very minimalist routine. Pretty much your big five. I add in dips and pull ups as well to that. But I know that in the long term, you guys talk about how that can cause joint issues. And I definitely do start to feel that sometimes. So, I was wondering if there's like two or three must do rotational or lateral movements that you guys would include for someone who does like to keep it very simple. But also wants to get a benefit to those other movements. Yeah. That's a good question. How do you play any sport or do you do anything aside from the training? Yeah. So, I'm in the army at the moment. We do a lot of different stuff. And it's been quite hard on my body going from doing one thing which was the way I like to train to a lot of random stuff. So, and there's been like a bit of adjustment issues in my body as well. Like even doing, you know, the weight load marching and all that kind of stuff where my body just hasn't been used to it. But I suppose the army does a lot of those different random things that I'm asking my body to do are helping. But just I want to be able to replicate that in the gym as well in order to help support those skill sets. Gotcha. So, here's the issue with avoiding certain fundamental movements. And it doesn't necessarily, the reason why I asked if you play any sport or do anything else is it doesn't necessarily have to be strength training. If it's complimented by other movements outside of the gym where you're, you know, doing movements like running laterally and rotating because you're playing sports, then you're probably going to be okay. But here's the issue. The issue is that when your body gets really strong in one plane of movement, you create an imbalance between one way of moving and another way of moving. There's a ratio that seems to be ideal in terms of strength and stability with movements that support other movements. Okay. So think of like a race car. You can have a race car with a lot of horsepower, but if the frame doesn't support the horsepower, now the frame becomes a hindrance and you can start to damage the car. It wouldn't be an issue though if the car wasn't too strong for the frame. Okay. Does that make sense? So it's really about, it really has to do a lot with balance. Okay. So now to answer your question, if you want to find exercises that are kind of must, you know, you know, go-tos. I like lateral sled drags. If you don't have a sled, you could do lateral lunges, two blocking. Anything with resistance moving sideways would be just fine. And then for rotation, you know, band chops, cable chops, throwing a medicine ball. Those were core exercises. Windmills. Windmills, I'd love this. Windmills would be amazing. Yeah. Those are all, those are all totally fine. But let's, how often do you do strength training? Every day. Okay. So wow. Every single day. And then how often do you do exercise with your military? We usually do three sessions a week. The intensity varies. We usually have, we usually have like a cardio day, a strength day, and then a weight-loaded March day, which is kind of a combination of the two, I suppose. But my sessions, my sessions are short. So I do, in the more, like I do, I'll do two lifts pretty much when I go in. I just like to have that routine. And because we, our schedule here is so demanding, we are only really out of time to get in the gym 15 minutes. So I do kind of like a MAPS 15 kind of thing. That works. So another option, it would be for us to give you MAPS performance. And you follow, you use the, so you follow the kind of MAPS 15 protocol you're doing because I don't want to change that. It sounds like that works well with your schedule. I also think that's a good amount of volume for all the other things you're doing. So I wouldn't change choosing two exercises. I like that. But maybe pull from MAPS performance because there's a lot of exercises in there that are unilateral. There's some rotational movements in there. There's some movements that are going to incorporate the things that you're looking for. And you could just, you could still kind of follow your concept. I'm a fan of what you're doing. I like that of going in there and doing two good movements. But you can use that program to pull that from. It also has mobility days in there. So let's say it's a, and you said the intensity varies with like your training. So let's say it's a really heavy intensity day or week for you. And maybe instead of training five or six days of lifting heavy that week, you take one of those days and do some mobility movements. That would really complement kind of what you're doing right now and still give you this kind of structure that you currently have. That would be my suggestion. Yeah. And I also think too, like if you're doing just regular overhead pressing or you're doing rows, you can always add that element of rotation there for the shoulders. And I like to do that with kettlebells or with dumbbells. So you can actually kind of incorporate that as another way to add rotation within your pressing and pulling. And then like core for the most part, you're going to be able to get whether it like Sal mentioned like side chops or any kind of like landmine rotational movement for that. Or windmill. Yeah. Windmills is probably going to cover all the bases for that. So, you know, that's just an easy way to like, oh, if I need one exercise specifically to kind of cover my different like transverse plane, it would be like windmill or yeah, one of those core exercises. I like that. So look at, you just said the three areas I'm really concerned about, right? Rotational stuff for your core, your shoulders, because of the joint and then also the hips, right? So there's three movements I would want to make sure or there's three movements in there that I want to do shoulders. I like a like an Arnold press or like a kettlebell press like like Justin is saying that would take care of the shoulders. A windmill would take care of like your core and then doing something laterally like a either a sled drag laterally or doing two walks laterally. Caustic lunge like so pick one of those and then you're really hitting it up pretty good. Like if you do that and incorporate those three movements with what you're kind of already doing, I think you'd be in a really good position. Now to be fair, Angus, your joint pain might have nothing to do with what we're talking about. What do you feel? What kind of joint pain are you having? Like I just tend to come and go and it's I think it might just be to do with over like the intensity of what I'm doing here. Like so I recognize that as well. Usually what will happen is I'll just do something that I've never done before and then I'll get like then it'll get pain and it just will not it'll just stick around stick around stick around. So it could be just that I need to put my body into more different planes of movement. That's what I thought more regularly and just get my body more comfortable with those things. But yeah, it could just be that. Is it a particular joint or area? Like is it normally hip? Is it normally shoulders? Is it normally elbows? Is it normally knee? Where do you feel the most? Well, yeah, where is it normally? The ankles, ankle's shoulders. His own elbow. Yeah, I don't I you know, I don't think doing more is necessarily the solution. It might be replacing a few movements. That's exactly what I do. Or doing less. Take your protocol, just replace it with the movements that we're saying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think probably has more to do with the military training. You do it every day, right? So I don't yeah. So again, to be fair, I don't think it's a lack of doing, you know, like you need to do more. Might need to change a few things, maybe add some mobility and replace of certain strength training exercises, maybe add a day off. Might be exactly what you what your body needs. So we gave you some options. What I don't want you to do. Here's what a lot of people do is just throw it on top of what they're already doing, which might not be and to be honest, I mean, my opinion, I don't think that's going to, I think that might make things worse, to be honest with you. Look, I like, I like where I was going with the performance. So I'm going to have Doug send you maps performance. There's things in there, like the, the Matrix Lunge. Do we have Cossack Squats in that one? Yeah. Okay, Cossack Squats are in there. So what I want you to do is follow your protocol of like your two extra, I like the two exercises a day. Trade them out for Cossack Squats that day. And then instead of doing a barbell overhead press one day, do an Arnold Press that day. And like, so remove some of these traditional lifts with some of these exercises that incorporate a rotational, and then if you start to feel like your joints are getting inflamed, or you, or if even better, you know, it was an intense day in the military, follow that up with like a mobility day, instead of actually doing strength training. So become aware of, okay, that was a pretty intense day I did and I trained really hard the day before that. You know what? Today when I go to the gym, instead of doing my two lifts, I'm going to pull from MAPS Performance and do some of the mobility exercises. That's going to do you really well. Awesome guys. Thanks so much for the nice to meet you. All right, you too. Hey, man. Good luck to bed. Good luck. Yeah, good to bed. Yeah, dude. Good. You got it. Yeah, the thing about joint pain is it could be lack of exercise. It could be too much exercise. It could be diet. It could be like a sleep. Inflammation and pain can come from so many different areas. Insimility. Yeah, the wrong the wrong solution can often, well, will often make things a lot worse. So I asked him, you know, where he felt the pain and what was going on. And if he was, because if you do sports and you add strength training, you know, not all sports, right? Some sports are super linear, like you're cycling or running, but if you're doing a sport that's dynamic. Yeah, soccer. You're going to cover all the bases for the most part. You know, yeah. So you're going to be okay with the stuff that we talk about. Like when we talk about lack of lateral movement or rotation, we're usually addressing people who only strength train and they really don't do anything else. Maybe some like traditional cardio. They don't do anything else. And then the imbalances start to happen. But if you're doing all that other stuff, you're probably going to be okay. Yeah, if I had to guess, I actually think this is just a little bit of overusage. I mean, I think you did the right thing by I love the map 15 type of protocol, two exercises. I think that the problem is though he's just doing everything in the sagittal plane. He's not in court. So I think his his mindset is in the right place. The prescription though is don't add it on top of what you're already doing. Replace it with some of the things you were already doing. And then in addition, that also become aware of, okay, that was a pretty intense week in the military. I should probably scale back. Instead of doing any strength training today, I'm going to do some mobility work that will serve him really well. Our next caller is Carly from Utah. Hi, Carly. How can we help you? Oh my gosh. I'm fan girling a little bit right now, you guys. And just thank you for everything you guys do. Everything you preach really resonates with me. I love that you guys never preach extremes and that you actually bring in the spiritual side of it. I love that. So thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you at all. Okay. So I'll go ahead and just read it paraphrase a little bit. So 28 year old ex-collegiate athlete high school teacher right now, online coach and mom. I've been weight training consistently for 10 years now and I initially started seeing the most progress as far as strength and hypertrophy when I started isolating my muscle groups with my weekly workout split. For example, push, lower, pull, core and full. I've continued this split for about four years now. I like the way I look and I feel really strong. And then I give you my numbers there for reference. But I do feel like I've never been able to reach that next level as far as my physique goes. I've tracked my macros for five years and I feel like I have a very healthy balance in relationship with food. So on one of your recent episodes you guys mentioned that for a majority of people training full body three times a week will yield the best results like about three times a week you said. I feel this will benefit me in the future when I hopefully have another baby and my time might be even more limited than it is now. My question is what is the best way to program these full body workouts? Are sets focusing on one muscle group more effective or should I implement more full body or compound movements? Are the workouts typically longer because you're working more muscle groups? So I work out before work every day so I have about an hour to work with. Well, let's back up for a second because I'll get to that and that's a good question but let's back up for a second. What do you mean by next level? Well, I mean just like I'm not shredded and I don't have any goals to be shredded. I'm not like competing in anything. I just I kind of would like to you know when I go on trips with my family and I feel confident in a bikini or whatever but I'd like for them to know like oh dang you're strong or you look like you know you're you can lift a lot of weight. Well, I saw your numbers you look strong and fit. Yeah, I can see your shoulders just so you know your your your lift would you have two reps 135 in the bench 245 in the squat. That's impressive. Yeah, you're pulling over you know 200 pounds off the floor. What's your body weight? So right now I'm about 124. I don't track that a lot. Okay. So I got some I got to give you some news. I don't know if this is a that's might be shocking to you but your next level. Yeah, you're already there. Yeah, that's pretty damn good. That like strength I will admit like strength is my my thing. Like I know I am strong. I can do like it was funny my husband when we were back dating he was like oh my gosh you can do pull-ups and we joke that that's like one of the reasons he like started dating me. So I know I'm strong. I just feel like okay could I take my physique to maybe a little bit more of a next level where I look more defined or something like that doing full body workouts instead of the current split that I'm doing right now. Okay, so it's gonna be more diet just so you know that's yeah definition is especially if you're already lean and fit that's typically the the result of nutrition and if you're already lean to get even leaner so I don't know what your body fat percentage is. I can't tell I'm guessing it's pretty if she's 124 she's pushing that kind of way you're pretty lean already I can tell you that right with just knowing that do you have an idea of what your body fat percentage is at Carly? I would guess because back when I was at a gym where they do the little scans or whatever and based on where I what I look like right now I would guess I'm somewhere around 2021. You're Jack. Yeah, she's Jack. Dude, you're Ellen Jack. To get any leaner is like a crazy six pack. Yeah, so to get any leaner to go from where you're at now which is incredible yeah, I mean you got abs and to go to the next level this is when things get weird with diet this is when it's like super ridiculous consistent all the time every single time and that's just you know to go from where you're at now to get even leaner that's just gonna gonna be what it requires as far as workouts are concerned you know when we say full body three days a week is best for most people we're talking about you know most people now you are so consistent you've been trained so long I still think you would benefit from switching because of the novelty of the new routine it's different than what you've been doing for the last four years I don't think any routine is always gonna be the best one for you all the time yeah I think a routine when you change as long as it's appropriate so that's the context okay as long as the routine's appropriate and over training over doing it you're training your body within its parameters you're not you know going too crazy in either direction anytime you don't want to change your workout every three to six months you're just gonna want to change the programming whether it's the rep ranges or the split I like full body splits I think one exercise per body part maybe two for a couple body parts that you really want to focus on typically they're compound lifts you're training at moderate high intensity you're not training to failure you usually when people switch to that from what you're doing now they'll just see big strength gains and they'll see more muscle but definition that's gonna be a problem I mean I'm looking I was looking at your pictures Doug pulled you up your Instagram it's it's gonna be that's gonna be your diet and it looks like you have a good diet now based off of the way you look yeah it's just gonna be literally like the difference between like when I when I would get down to 10% body fat if I wanted to get any leaner then every meal had to be perfect it's like I couldn't have one that was off otherwise I'd stay at 10% right so most people wouldn't be able to get to where you're at because it requires so much discipline to go any further it's gonna and you might not want to do this you might be like that's not worth it no you're crossing over to unhealthy yeah you're already like peak healthy I can tell I can tell by your numbers I can tell by the way you look right now your skin and hair I can tell by your pictures on Instagram and you're not just like one picture you were fit and then you have a bunch of other stuff like it Doug scrolled down and looked like for like a year you maintain a very fit healthy physique now it's not up to me to tell you that you can't go be a bikini looking athlete for a week or whatever like that because you want to like I'm not against if you hired me and said hey Adam and I can tell you have the discipline I want to get in bikini shape to like compete for a show then we could do that but I'll tell you right now you would cross into unhealthy to get there because you're already in my opinion as lean as you really want to be as a female you got abs you're strong you got definition like you look incredible so I think that's important to know that whatever we go from here we're going to cross into what's not ideal so even in your head you may want to prove to yourself but that's fine too like I get it I did it like I know and it was about proving that I could do that but I don't maintain that like there's I mean that's just ridiculous to maintain that so where do you you say you track your macros for five years where are you at like a calorie-wide obviously I'm assuming you hit protein and take and stuff like that where are you at calorie-wise and movement too like do you track steps I do I do track steps I get about 12,000 every single day right now I'm currently in the process of trying to move past the mental block of like getting over 2,000 calories so I'd say I'm consistently around 1,900 right now and that's the thing too especially we're in the next year so my husband and I'll be trying to get pregnant again like I'm in no way wanting to cut down because I mean I know I went through infertility too so that's not the goal of mine more so the goal is like okay once I have a second baby and maybe I only make it to the gym three times a week versus the five that I'm going right now like what should those workouts look like okay I mean MAPSynabolic would be great for you and then and then you can eat so I'm gonna give you two programs I'll give you MAPSynabolic and then I like advanced MAPSynabolic for you because of how advanced you are that's later yeah later that's first MAPSynabolic and then you can progress to the advanced MAPSynabolic after that because I think you I think you will you know I would before you mentioned you were going to have I was going to say I was going to talk about fertility with you because you're at the borderline yeah I think if you got any leaner you probably lose your period yes she's already lean my advice to you if you know even though you didn't ask for this advice would be to do a reverse diet yeah I like that if you're walking around at 1900 calories at your strength your muscle mass your leanness you what's happening right now is you're playing this game of like you're at the line you're balancing the line constantly which means any extra stress any extra potential over training any loss of sleep is going to tip you over into an unhealthy place I think what you should probably do what I would do is I'll put you in a bulk yeah I would reverse diet you get real fertile you're just going to get stronger I don't even think you're going to gain body fat if you do it's okay I mean based off your pictures I'd say you're around 19% or so or less maybe yeah and I'd reverse diet you I don't think it'd be I wouldn't cut you from 1900 based off of what you're showing definitely not definitely not I'd love that advice I 100% agree with that I would tell you we might get a little bit soft but not bad like you're going to put a little bit of weight good weight for most of that most of part but you're going to increase calories so anticipate a little bit of more water weight a little bit of more weight so don't freak out if you go up a little bit on the scale but the goal should be more so can I get up to somewhere like 2500 to 2600 calories like that your goal should be slowly try and go up 100 to 200 calories at a time stay there till you feel comfortable like you're not adding any more weight you should hopefully feel stronger you're staying plateaued maybe say for a week then bump up another 100 to 200 calorie and just keep playing that game until you get up to about 25, 2600 and then if you really want to just play around for a while you could cut back down to the 2000 and see how your body changes and leans out but if we're talking about fertility and being healthy I definitely would rather you be even higher up as far as your body fat percentage you're going to be in a healthier place especially to get pregnant yeah based off what you said too you said you said you did you did have to deal with some fertility stuff I would guess you're already on the line right now I would guess that you're close to getting into negatively affecting fertility so I would not I would not cut so I recommended maps on a block you run like a split right now right so that's probably enough I would say that doing that in conjunction with also increasing your calories it's going to be a new enough stimulus for you and unique that you're going to build muscle from it so follow it to a tee trust the process okay on the days that you're used to lifting you can go walk you know go do some or go go for a nice little hike you know don't try and add a bunch of other stuff just do follow the program it's laid out and then stay with us I want to hear how you are and like you know a month or two and see how things are going but the goal should be get up to about 25 2600 calories and by the way we're like being very nitpicky with you because I think you're in an amazing place right now because 1900 calories is not low for 120 that's a good good amount you're strong so you could really get away with more yeah are you I mean who you compete comparing yourself with because because I feel like you're you know your ideals are just are you looking at social media you're looking at like insane people I mean do you have a friend that's as strong as fit as you are I doubt it no but you know I was a female athlete and I had other really athletic teammates so maybe I am comparing a little bit to social media I would I've always had a good physique and like I think my fear is losing that physique it's kind of you know that's why I have this mental barrier of pushing past 2000 calories so maybe that's kind of the fear is seeing myself in the mirror being a little more soft you know you know what's not going to happen if you go up two or three hundred calories you're not going to gain a total weight no no yeah you're just going to feel stronger and honestly Carl you said that you you appreciate the the mental spiritual stuff that we talk about I think for those reasons this would be a very healthy exercise for you forget all the other stuff like the fact that you admit that there is a mental block and barrier there I can all of us are telling you that's where the growth is you're going to be fine this would be a healthy thing for you to do is to push yourself mentally know that you're an athlete know that you could turn around and go right back to the direction if you need to but hey the goal should be allow yourself that little bit of freedom even to put on a few pounds or even to look a little softer it's okay you are you are literally two weeks away from being lean and shredded again so like I think that would be a good exercise for you to really try and add those calories in hey thank you I appreciate it question follow-up question to that then would like my 120 to 130 grams of protein be sufficient yeah yep plenty yeah you're fine yep I mean if you want to add protein to bump your calories you can do that too but that that's you're totally fine I mean I would add carbs and fats what I would do okay sweet yeah keep us posted I'd like to hear where you're at in 30 days hey awesome all right thank you guys so much I appreciate it you got it all right thank you her own worst enemy I knew she was jacked I could tell well yeah you can see in her face in her shoulders and then when she said her numbers 120 100 only 120 something pounds and she's I mean she's Katrina Strong Katrina's got 25 30 pounds on her yeah so I'm like dude you're definitely way fit yeah I'd say you know it's like the whole when she said next level I'm like what does that mean to you and you know even before she said anything where fertility like you know women especially men this happens to men too but we don't have obvious signs is like losing our period right we don't obviously have a period but with women if you you you can maintain a relatively lean physique but if you push it for too long your fertility you lose your period and that's not a good so that's a very strong sign yeah that you're you're going in the wrong direction and you don't need so you don't even have to lose your period and you still I mean Katrina we had fertility issues and from Katrina being too lean and we she didn't lose her period yeah you gotta put some body fat percentage on we need to get higher body fat percentage so yeah that especially if that's the goal but I mean she's in she's an incredible shape and in a great place right now and I think a good exercise for her is to would be to allow herself to get a little bit softer it's okay she's already in an elite place our next caller is Carrie from the UK hi Carrie how can we help you hi hi nice to be here thank you for having me you got it how can we help you um well firstly the customary thank you so much for your content I've been listening for a while so I know that's that's what I've got to do if you told me five years ago that three big guys talking about muscle building would have been the sound track to my days I'd have thought you'd have lost the plot and thanks a million I'm 43 I'm five foot one and I hover around 112 pounds and like so many of you listeners I've always worked out with cardio to manually burn the calories and then in April 2021 I found lifting and have been trusting the process ever since I'm consistently in the gym three days a week doing full body I bought Matt's anabolic November last year and I'm just about to start it for the third time I've been in the same weight range for forever and my progress seems slow my issue is I carry a lot of fat or not a lot but when I do carry fat it goes to my trunk so on an apple on my face I would love to build my legs more my arms are defined but my legs are like twigs strong twigs but twigs I think this is maybe because I have trouble collecting to my connecting to my glutes but essentially I don't know after I ran anabolic for the first time I came up with my own routine and focused on lower body but then I listened to one of your podcasts and it said that I shouldn't work on muscle more than 16 sets in a week and I was going way over that so I bind off my ideas and swiftly ran back to the safety of anabolic my goal is to build as much muscle as possible before hitting the inevitable menopause I'm not there yet and I feel great I feel better than I did when I was in my 20s I wasn't very healthy in my 20s but I still feel better than I did when I was in my 20s I want to be able to say to myself that I'm in great shape be strong for years to come and more importantly set an example for my boys for as long as I possibly can they're four years old and six years old lifting has helped me through so many things mentally I could not imagine my life without it not just doing it but learning about it too so my question is can I adapt maps anabolic to be more lower body focused how do I do it correctly so as not to over train I've currently swapped squats for hip thrusts after listening to a few of your podcasts it over the summer but I feel like I should be swapping more out yeah good question and you're strong I'm looking at the weight you're lifting you weigh 112 pounds and you're squatting 62 kilograms for three reps you're doing great right now that's excellent yeah that's really good and you said your body weight is staying the same but you're getting stronger well I don't know I am getting stronger it's slow like I looked today compared from December last year I've only gone up five pounds in my squat five pounds in my deadlift my bench has stayed the same although my form is better I don't know whether that's good progress or not I didn't well you're strong it's not bad progress especially if you're technique and stability feel better so if so and we'll get to I'm going to get to more of your question but let's say somebody does a squat with 100 pounds and then you know a month from now they do the same squat with the same weight but they feel tighter more solid better form maybe even better technique a little bit deeper range of motion they're stronger even though the weight the same the weight is the same they've still gotten stronger so now you can modify maps anabolic a little bit more so here's what we typically will will do is we'll take sets away from other exercises and add them to movements and exercises that you want to prioritize but before I get into that do you feel good do your joints feel good do you feel rested are you extra sore do you have any signs of overtraining like like tell me about how everything feels to you I rarely get sore the only time I get like a nice sore is when I change it up okay so my sleep is good I think I'm consistent with my protein I used to track but I found that I was kind of if you hit your macros if it fits your macros or whatever so I kind of stepped away from that a couple of months ago and I have put on a few pounds from it but I I'm not letting it control me rather I'm just going with how I feel I want to I want to know how I feel about food rather than it fitting into a chart kind of thing how consistent are you with making sure you hit your protein intake and do you know where your calories land I know you're not really following the macro thing anymore but do you have an idea of how many calories you consume and then what your protein intake is consistently yeah I'm maintain probably you're going to say it's not enough I maintain at 1500 probably and protein I aim for 100 okay so okay I get consistently I get 90 to 100 so here's our opportunity and this is probably why you've had good success and strength gaining is like I think you can totally increase calories and you won't get any body fat and you're not you're just going to get stronger that's what there I think you would have got even stronger I think you did great by the way okay I think we're doing phenomenal but that feeling of like you know is kind of slow could it have been a little bit faster I bet if you were in more of a calorie surplus it would have been faster so if you would have had your calories up say two three hundred more calories than when you're at consistently hitting 100 plus grams of protein every day I think you would have seen even more strength gains than you already got all in all I think we're doing phenomenal I think just switch switching up some exercises bumping calories a little bit and you're going to see great results yeah so here's an easy way to do it Carrie if you're if you don't want to track and get too caught up in the macros because I get that some people will do that and then it starts to feel stressful or whatever and they don't enjoy it you probably generally eat the same types of foods most days I bet if we looked at breakfast lunch and dinner it's very similar literally you could just all you got to do is eat what you're currently eating and add an extra 200 calorie meal so just take a 200 calorie meal make it a high protein one and then add that to your current diet and that would be enough to start to get the ball moving in the right direction or or this Sal would it mean since you're eating the same thing without even adding another meal is every time you eat meat add one to two ounces yeah there you go let's do the thing so if you normally eat a six ounce you know six ounces of chicken thighs or beef or steak or fish or whatever it is instead of having six have eight yeah just okay just increase your portion size of the meat that you're eating and that'll do that'll do the job like literally by one or two ounces that's it if you always eat six eat eight and that's a that's a low enough amount of calories you're not going to see a major weight gain from it you're and you're then you're also going to make sure you probably hit your protein at a over 100 every time and it'll be a nice low calorie boost that's it and then as far as your training is concerned because you feel so good Carrie you could literally do this you could add to your Monday Wednesday Friday workout you could add one or two sets to some lower body exercise that you're currently doing I think you'd be okay just adding a little bit so when you do your squats or your hip thrusts or your deadlifts let's say you normally do three sets do four or five I think that would be okay I think that'd be enough I don't think you would it would over train you but in combination with the slight calorie bump that would probably be a nice combination to get your lower body start to develop a little more I love the idea of just adding two sets of hip thrusts into the following the anabolic routine and and then just adding two or three sets of the hip thrust in there because that's a that's not going to do as much damage because it's not a big you know squat compound lift it's it's a pretty good and you also mentioned the point about thinking that maybe you have a poor connection to your glutes that's going to support that it's going to give you a little bit more volume in the lower body so I would literally just add two or three sets of the hip thrust one or two times a week and that'd be perfect so just like whatever you're doing add another set or two because it sounds like you're already doing those right yeah so at the moment I kind of I took squats out because I listened to one of your episodes about poor connections and put in hip thrusts should I put squats back in there how long you've been done how long have you stopped the squats um I've only just uh I mean phase one again yeah phase one of anabolic um so I did pre phase I did squats I think it's in pre phase yeah um but I've only been doing it a couple of weeks I'm only on week two of pre phase pre phase so I can know yeah I you know maybe maybe a couple more weeks and then throw a couple sets of squats in you'll be fine yeah so it's like you're at you basically okay so essentially what you're doing Kerry is you're adding a little bit of volume to your lower body an extra couple sets for lower body and you're bumping your calories by about 200 and that should you start you should start to see within a couple weeks you should start to see progress in the positive yeah okay and you don't think uh because I'm quite petite you don't think two three three hundred no not a 15 or calories no no and not the way you're lifting and how strong you like it's going to serve you well you know what's funny Kerry is uh the muscle growth I I bet you you could do nothing else and just add 200 calories and you start to see the muscle yeah you start to see a little bit of muscle come back on your body I mean you don't even have to add the extra volume but I would add the extra volume just for the extra stimulus because you don't seem like you're over trained you're following everything well I think that would be a break a perfect combination Kerry are you on Facebook uh yes I am yes okay I'm gonna have Doug send you access to the forum too so I'd like to you know keep keep us posted as you go through this process let us know how you're doing in three or four weeks and give us the feedback and we can make some minor adjustments now Kerry is math is the only program that you own yeah currently I was waiting for black friday okay what program did you want black friday sorry what program were you interested for in when maybe one that helps imbalances like symmetry because yeah well yeah I was gonna look into it I haven't actually looked into it yeah so um I do feel that one side is like everything really a bit of imbalance I'm gonna send you symmetry you get that one for free really yeah thank you very much all right yeah you got it follow up to anabolic for sure yeah we'll send that to you and the next after you're done with maps anabolic follow symmetry you'll love it and keep us posted Doug's gonna put you in the forum thanks a million guys it's so nice to finally meet you yeah yeah you take care I know you're in the UK well you are just so relatable thank you so much I know you're in the UK but it looks sunny over there isn't that that's kind of rare isn't it it's the sun's going down that's west so the sun's kind of going down okay so I'm being fooled and the lights work right yeah all right well thanks Kerry thanks for calling in appreciate the support see you Kerry nice to meet you thank you bye I was gonna say just been watching that series Beckham you know what they gave him to put weight on him when he was a kid a pint of Guinness with an egg in there with a raw egg they did that young too he was like 12 or 13 I think that's like an old school that's a thing English prescription for quick weight I was gonna say it to her I've had that and they do like oyster shots with Guinness like when I was in Ireland they had me do that and I was like wow okay this is a thing give it to your 12 year old put an end in your pencil what a great lady huh I know what a sweetheart she's doing great doing great excellent excellent job she's following all the advice perfectly she sounds like she's not over trained she says she rarely gets sore gotta keep going the calories a little low that's it she honestly and did phenomenal so it's not that bad but just by bumping I bet if she would have just been eating two or three or more calories she would have might have she would have seen more progress for sure our next caller is Greg from California great what's happening so can we help you you guys good to see you you too I think Adam and Sal I've seen each of you a couple of times on the the NCI calls but Justin this is my first time seeing you here I am brother he's so handsome drink it in I appreciate your time and everything I actually started listening to you guys like in your first year and then my bad fell off and then didn't start listening again till I heard Sal on John DeLonis show and yeah I think it's just been really motivational you guys are like inspiring me to get passionate about the business side of things in my business and yeah and love all the parenting content as well oh thanks man awesome how can we help you yeah so basically my question I'm just gonna kind of read what I sent in my question is basically how can I best organize my year of training and programming given kind of a new phase of goals or life just background I was a competitive lightweight rower was competitive triathlete and runner for a while for a long time but now with like with a little kid and family that's kind of been mostly put on the back burner I was just up in your neck of the woods in Santa Cruz doing a half Ironman in September but now I want to go more into strength partially because I know like I'll never we're not never but I don't have the time to you know set any new PRs or hit any goals in the kind of endurance world and thought strength would be a fun way to transition I do it's that endurance stuff still kind of fills my soul so I still do like a little one in the beginning of summer and maybe do something kind of longer at the end but yeah I mean I have my own thoughts but I would really appreciate your input as to you know what kind of program they've put in to place to improve just see strength games and the big like major lifts yet still be able to transition easily you know into short bouts maybe six to eight weeks at a time of endurance training to still have fun with that maps performance was built for you well performance that's what that was made for someone just like you I mean it's you know it's a perfect program for someone like you but you know just more generally speaking right to to build strength and muscle from where you're at it's going to be a lot less training I mean okay people listening this is important for people to understand when you're training at that level especially endurance training it's a lot of hours it's a lot of hours you know triathlon training ironman training you're logging hours and hours of you know cycling swimming and running it's just it's just because the the name of the game is endurance and stamina you do have to do long bouts of training now strength training and muscle building isn't like that now volume does play a role but for someone like you backing way off in the hours and literally going to the gym for an hour three days a week it's you know all things being you know done well dying awesome you're going to pack on a lot of muscle you're going to build muscle because the signaling is changing it's different kind of signaling now it's interesting that you said for six to eight weeks to train a particular way you know and this is how everybody should train but especially someone with other responsibilities you want to look at your total year and it's really a four to one ratio is what it looks like for you know being you know kind of maintaining feeling good managing things and then the one being the sprints you know so it's like you know I train for four weeks or let's say for four months and I'm just kind of taking care of myself feeling good maybe it's a little bit of progress and then I get that month where you know I'm getting more sleep I can push it and I can take myself to another level so you want to think of your progress throughout the year as a as like a step ladder where you're kind of cruising and then you sprint up a little bit and then what you want to do is you want to cruise a little bit not lose too much maybe maintain sprint a little bit that's a nice healthy ratio or attitude towards your training now to go from strength like traditional strength training to more endurance training if you completely avoid the ever endurance training during the strength phase there's going to be more to consider with the transition now if you go from where you're at now to less endurance training but you're doing some of it okay you're doing some of it with your strength training you're still going to maintain quite a bit because your current level of fitness your current level of skill even though let's say you go from five days a week of endurance training down to two and now you're also doing maybe two or three days a week of strength training so overall less training but you're still doing some of what you did before the transition is not going to be hard if you completely avoid your skills of endurance and go straight strength training now it's going to be difficult to transition in which case I would say it would be a slow gradual three-week four-week transition from just strength training to more endurance training now the reason why Adam jumped to maps performance is because the mobility work in mass performance although it's not as ideal as continuing some of the skills that you're doing now the mobility training is a nice way to prevent total loss of skill it's a built-in longevity plan for your joints I mean everything you're doing especially endurance wise and repetitive stress like to be able to get your joints to be able to stabilize and be strong you know for the long haul that's crucial especially if you love endurance training like you do and that's why I love math performance too because also too you're going to be training in multiple planes in our phase two part of that program as well so it's a good way to train for strength but also too like you're getting that kind of stimulus you're going to need so your body will react to any kind of lateral forces or or you know transverse type forces I'll be even more prescriptive for you and by the way I think you're you're right on the right I like idea and plan here right I would run performance pretty much through the whole year when you know you're going to get ready for one of these competitions six weeks out is a good amount of time for you to do this as you start building in the endurance training at the same time you start scaling back the volume of weight training so it's like you're around the plan is follow performance get strong at it do the mobility days do it that's laid out you have an endurance phase in there you're not going to lose a ton because of that even though it's not the same as running for you know three hours straight it's still not going to put you to where you're deconditioned that bad enough that six weeks you could get it back into prime shape and as you increase your days of running to get ready for like one of these Ironmans or whatever you start to pull back on the weight training and eventually get to a place where you're only weight training like one day a week and then mostly doing your endurance as you get closer to the race so that's literally what it would look like one thing I'll add Greg is I would not you know if you could I would not take out any of the skills that you're proficient at now during that phase of building strength because here's what's going to happen you're going to switch to strength and because your body right now let's say is prime for endurance just to switch alone you're going to pack on some muscle I wouldn't it wouldn't shock me if you gain 10 pounds of lean body mass in a very short period of time now here's what that means that means you're a different body your new body yeah so 10 pounds even though it's muscle and muscle is functional your skills are going to be off a bit your movement's going to be a little off if you don't practice the skill along in other words coordinate that muscle to the skill like if you stop running now if I snap my fingers and add a 10 pounds of functional muscle on you even if it was very functional and then you went for a run it feel a little awkward it's like putting like a like a small rise in your shoe or something and you know you would notice when you're removing like I'm a little different something's not I'm not as efficient so I would not avoid any of your if you want to maintain those skills while building muscle I would maintain I would still do them to some degree so that you can coordinate that because you're going to build muscle by doing this for sure I mean to go from what you're doing now to what we're saying your body's going to respond a great way to do that is on mobility days you just would go for a mile run reduce the intensity of it yeah yeah so just you're going through the skill of it and this is what we do with any sport really is to combo that skill focused drilling on those mobility days the mobility beforehand to kind of get the body to react in in primate for all that type of like very specific skill to your sport but then keep practicing it keep practicing it on those days just with lower intensity a perfect way to do this is on the mobility days 10 minutes of that skill it could be swimming it could be running it could be rowing but 10 minutes of doing that before you go into your mobility or mobility first and then 10 minutes of that and maintain that while running performance you'll keep enough of that now you work in the space are you a chiropractor what do you do do you train and coach people yeah both so I'm a physical therapist and then I train and coach people and then going through NCI level one right now oh good I was going to give you a maps prime and prime pro but you're a PT so you know your stuff so excellent and I have them too oh you do okay good all right well excellent yeah no I think you're on the right track dude really I would say the biggest for someone like you with your experience and knowledge just be very cognizant of the added stress of you know you got a toddler you can have a new baby and that's that means you're gonna have to modify your training stimulus the good news is you're so fit now you're probably not gonna lose a lot but it'll be harder to progress that's the challenge sounds gonna be pushing yourself to go any further but don't worry about going backwards I think you're gonna maintain well it also sounds like you have kind of the right mindset that you know you're going into this I mean you know another baby type of deal and you're transitioning in your life to like focusing more on strength so it's okay if you're not breaking records on the Iron Man right or better than you like you should expect not to necessarily be better I think that's a good mindset is like but still do it because you love it right like I love that idea of like hey I'm gonna put on some muscle probably 10 pounds heavier view of muscle is not gonna perform as good as the other older version of you in Iron Man because it's just a different focus but you can lift more weight yeah you'll be stronger you'll probably even look better but it's okay and you'll still be able to do something that you enjoy and love every you know few months you do one of those I think that's a great way to look at it and a great attitude yeah it's it hasn't been easy I'll say that it's like that making that transition like it's still like it gives me I don't know it's really it's really hard to show up to stand a cruise knowing like oh this is gonna feel slow and even the thought of like gaining I mean like I want to like I want to gain the five 10 pounds of muscle but probably for the last 20 years I haven't been above 160 like it just like this mental thing it's really interesting so it's I think it's going to be really when part of the reason I wanted to do it was like to to explore that right that personal thing and then and I think it'd be beneficial for clients too like having gone through that journey you know absolutely absolutely you know the other thing too Greg consider like having having one child and having two children no matter what you do no matter I don't care what you do whether you train for a triathlon you lift weights or you just whatever it's all a trend it's going to be you're not you're not going to be the same no matter what everything it's a transition for anybody so what you're going through is what every father who gives a shit is going to go through so yours is just a little different because you're pretty consistent with your workouts but it's no matter what you were doing before yeah it's going to be different after you're going to change that's it absolutely different and way better yeah that's right that's right perfect man well thanks for calling in dude all right absolutely thanks for your time you got it yeah you know for people who don't know I pulled it up because I forgot but a triathlon an Ironman triathlon this is a it's brutal run by swim bro it's a 2.4 mile swim a 112 mile mile bike ride and then a marathon a 1212 mile bike ride 112 mile bike ride that's a full iron Ironman and then and then you run and then you do a marathon after that 26 miles so I know he's going to do a half so everyone's like oh half marathon half marathon's crazy I mean half sitting on one of those Ironman bike seats for the whole oh I wonder if they do like a like a like a 150th Ironman do they do that I know there's a half it sounds like it sounds I mean he's something he's been doing this for most of his life so I think he's going to be pretty good he follows performance in there he adds in a little bit of skills on on the mobile it sounds though to me it's going to be the mental part that's going to be really tough for him it always is yeah like that and which by the way when you listen to this Greg I think this is important that you I think it's good like I actually I know you recommended the skills but honestly this who cares if you get if you lose a little bit of the skill of the Ironman thing the exercise here is the mental exercise of can I phase out of that part of my life if you get too obsessed with I don't want to lose too much of my Ironman skills then you'll probably end up overtraining or overdoing it name one thing that would not change in your life when you add another kid you know everything's going to change unless you're just like I'm not going to change anything you know wife's going to do everything else for me I can everything everything's going to change unless you're completely self-centered yeah there's nothing you can do about it so look if you like mind pump head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our free fitness guides they're free and there's a lot of them and you can get all of them again they cost nothing you can find all of us also on instagram Justin is at mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam is at mind pump Adam