 Our returning guest this weekend is Lukas Dmyniak, a professor at Nicholas Copernicus University in Poland and also a former summer fellow here at the Mises Institute. And Lukas is here to talk to us about the recent elections in Poland and the street protests that have been going on that you might not have heard about in Western media. There's actually something very different happening in Eastern Europe, especially Poland is compared to Western Europe. Now the media characterized its recent elections as a triumph for the right wing, but the truth, as Lukas explains, is actually quite different. It's a strange mix of both left and right politics and the country does not afraid to embrace its Catholic roots and its cultural identity. But what the media has been dismissing as xenophobic nationalism in Poland and other European countries is actually something quite different. Stay tuned for a great interview with Lukas Dmyniak. Well, Lukas Dmyniak, welcome back to Mises Weekends. It's great to talk to you. Thank you for having me. We really want to know what is going on in Poland. We get bits and pieces of what's happening in the Western media. We know that there have been some street protests recently with polls holding up signs and banners about Catholicism and about immigration. We know that there's been an election recently in October where a conservative opposition party had a big victory, but also a new party, I guess, which is characterized as a right wing party called the Law and Justice Party won some seats. Now, is this just sort of anti-immigration nativism as the Western media portrays it? Or is there something more interesting going on in Poland? As far as immigration is concerned, and particularly immigration from the Middle East, recently, even today, we had a public opinion survey that showed that about 48% of Polish citizens wouldn't like to have immigrants in Poland from Middle East. These immigrants that are called refugees. And we know that not all of them are refugees, really. Some of them are basically economic immigrants. And probably some of them can be actually terrorists under cover of being refugees or immigrants. So the public opinion generally I would say is against receiving immigration. And actually this survey showed that more than 40% of Polish people, Polish citizens are afraid of terrorist attacks taking place in Poland. Poland agreed to accept 7,000 immigrants. This decision was made before terrorist attacks in France. So generally it is believed that this decision is not valid anymore. And we hear in Europe this voice is not only in Poland, but as well we hear it in, for example, Denmark. Denmark agreed to accept 1,000 immigrants forced somehow by European Union to accept this. So Denmark withdraws its decision and Poland is doing the same. In Poland recently we have a situation in which law and justice has, I would say, full power. Actually, as you mentioned, rightly there are some protests against admitting immigrants to Poland. And I believe these protests are at least partly justified. Practically speaking, Polish Secret Service is basically unable to check all these immigrants from the point of view that can create terrorist danger in Poland. Lukas, the Western media, particularly in the US, tends to characterize any European political movements or parties that it doesn't like as right wing or Euroskeptic or anti-immigrant. But in fact, it sounds like the situation in Poland is actually quite different from the situation, say, in England with UKIP or in France with Marine Le Pen, and that these parties are not so easily classified or categorized as right wing. You're absolutely right. Like, first of all, I would say that there are many differences between Marine Le Pen and Nigel Farage on one hand and law and justice on the other. For example, UKIP is a Euroskeptical party, and law and justice cannot be described as Euroskeptical party. Probably a more important difference that law and justice is not a really conservative party. For example, as far as social and economic, it could be described as a party that is social democratic. It could be also called, using Hans Kermann Hopper, a typology of socialism as a conservative socialism. Law and justice is not really a rightist party. At least it's not a rightist party as far as the social and economic level of politics is concerned. I would say that this political right of conservatism of law and justice can be understood only on the level of some moral political agenda. For example, law and justice is pro-Catholic values, traditional in this moral sense. It's in favour of strong family coming back to conservative system of education, in favour of patriotism, in favour of lie, which means that it's against abortion. Therefore, I would say that law and justice is conservative as far as morality or some social and moral issues are concerned. But economically speaking, and even politically or metapolitically, it cannot be described as political right. Lucas, what is it about Polish history that you think allows Catholicism to survive as such a powerful force? If you look at the rest of Europe, it's heavily atheist and agnostic. How is Catholicism still driving politics in Poland in 2015? That's a really complicated issue. There are a few reasons, I believe, that are important. First of all, during communism, Catholic Church was one of the strongest institutions in the society that created opposition against communism. So basically, anti-communist opposition in Poland was centered around Catholic Church, which I think played quite important role in gaining important position in Polish social life and political transformation in 1989. That would be the first reason. The second reason is because we had a Pope, John Paul II, a really popular figure in Poland. Another important fact is that Poland is really homogeneous, ethnically. Therefore, we don't have all these tensions between different ethnic groups and different religions. From this point of view, I think this is particularly important to have reasonable and careful policy about admitting immigration from a different ethnic and cultural and religious environment to Poland, because that would obviously undermine what, in my opinion, is actually a strength of our country and our civilization. Well, let's talk briefly about the National Bank in Poland. It's not homogeneity. You talk about sovereignty. It's hard not to talk about central banking, at least theoretically under the Maastricht Treaty. Poland at some point in the future is obligated to join the eurozone and begin using the euro. Do you think everything that's happening in Europe right now in Paris, but also with the Greek and Italian debt crises, everything that's been going on with the ECB, do you think this has made the Polish people more skeptical of using the euro and more in favor of retaining sovereignty over the Zlati? Absolutely. I think, first of all, like law and justice, has never been, I would say, really in favor of accepting euro in Poland. It was always skeptical. This political climate that we have these days in Poland is against accepting or accelerating with the expectation of euro, and public opinion is more and more against this. Not only economic reasons, but also political, that Polish people, as it occurred amongst others in these elections, are in favor of having strong sovereignty. European Union currency would be diminishing our sovereignty. And I think people are not willing to do this, first of all. And second of all, as you mentioned, eurozone is not in a really good shape. So, for example, if we look at some statistics, even I think some bear facts show that eurozone zone is not in a good shape. So, for example, if you look at unemployment, 9.8% unemployment in the European Union, by eurozone we have 11% unemployment. But mainly if you look at youth unemployment, this is 24% of people. Economic growth in eurozone is 0.9%, so it's almost nothing. It's the same with public debt and government spending, tax burden and so on and so forth. So, generally I would say like eurozone doesn't perform well, and therefore the reason to accept euro currency is getting smaller and smaller in a week and a week up, is getting further and further. Well Lucas, it's certainly interesting to contemplate as we look at a map of Europe that its brightest future may well lie in Eastern European countries like Poland, as the bigger Western European countries, like England and France and Germany, increasingly slide into these hopeless, unstable, multicultural welfare states. So, thank you so much for your time, Lucas Dominic. It was a great interview. Ladies and gentlemen, have a great weekend.