 Hey everyone, welcome to our, okay, we're good to go. Welcome to our little presentation on public broadcasting content on Wikipedia, but also elsewhere. I'm Jan-David Franke, I'm with Wikimedia Deutschland, and this is... Yeah, I'm, do you hear me? Yeah. I'm Kevin Goldie, I'm the founder of the project, Weglas Broadcast, from the German Wikipedia, and today's the day we try to internationalize it, and yeah, hope that many of you are interested to do, to copy it for their country, and so yeah, it will be also an interactive session. So if you want to come to the front, you can come. To give you a little bit of background, public broadcasting content is content that we've all paid for already through our licensing fees. So it should all be available to us to use, to reuse, to edit, to share. That's what we're working on. We are trying to make sure that public broadcasting content is licensed under a free Creative Commons license, so that it can then be used in schools and on Wikipedia. We argue that this is a huge benefit for schools. It's a huge benefit for Wikipedia, but it's also a huge benefit for the agencies themselves, because it allows them to join us in the fight against misinformation online. It gives them a wider audience, and it gives them, it bolsters their democratic mandate, and it boosts their public reputation. So for us, really, it's a win-win. So let's go through it together. So the structure of our session is that first, we explain you what is Wikilev's broadcast, then how we got TV into the German Wikipedia. There we have already two success stories, and then there's room for questions, and if we have time, we will come to the last point, public broadcasting in your country. Otherwise, we make it after the session. So yeah, what is Wikilev's broadcast? So yeah, our project was founded in the year 2018, so from today, five years ago. And yeah, we approximately in Germany, 10 to 20 Wikipedians or Wikimediands who are working in the project voluntary, and of course with Dave, who helps us from the Wikimedia Germany chapter. And yeah, we conduct workshops with the public broadcasters to ensure that their videos, they provide us under CC license, what's not the easiest way to license things in Germany, especially in the public broadcast, and that their videos find then, finally the way into the Wikipedia. So yeah, here you see a picture from us. In the first session in 2019, we're one and a half months, no, not one and a half weeks before the first COVID-19 lockdown. And yeah, we were at the ZDF, the biggest broadcaster in Germany, and helped them to place their videos in the Wikipedia and hold a workshop about how to do it, what can be made wrong and so on. Then there's another example, it's Funk. Yeah, that's always the example where we say, okay, this didn't went well, because they didn't cooperate with us when they started their project. Then later, during the time of COVID-19, we went to Funk and explained them how they can get their content into Wikipedia, but until now, nothing happened there anymore. So it is not always successful, but the project with Terra X was so successful that we won the Wikioil in German, so Wikioil in English, which is the Oscar of the German Wikipedia, let's say, so for the best project. And yeah, there we've seen that people find it really useful, not only the readers, but also the authors that we get content from the public broadcasters. So what are the arguments that we make when we talk to these people? Politicians, but also agencies. One of the arguments I've already implicitly presented, it's an argument we call public money, public good, and it's the argument that we already paid for this content, especially when it's educational content, it should be made freely available for everyone to use. Another argument that's really successful with public broadcasting agencies, which shouldn't necessarily look at their ratings, but they do, because they still think they need to compete in the market, is that they can reach a much bigger audience if they CC license their stuff, if it's then used in other contexts, and if it's used on Wikipedia. We built a tool that allows us to track the clicks that a media file has on Wikimedia comments, and once a video is integrated into Wikimedia, those views are pretty substantial. Millions of views per month are possible, and you'll see that in a second. Another argument that we make is that Wikimedia and the public broadcasting sphere have a lot in common. We have a lot of similarities. We both have a meritocratic, democratic mandate. We're both against misinformation, and we both work for the common good. Can you guys think, this is our first interactive element, so be prepared. Can you think of any more arguments that could be made for why public broadcasting agencies should release content under a free Creative Commons license? If you were to walk up to your local public agency today, and they were to ask you why should we do this, what would you tell them? I can give you the mic. Well, I mean, the benefit for the broadcasters themselves is totally clear that they will have global, they can show the content globally for once, to a wider audience, and then they can defend why the public should give the global broadcaster money, because in the end it will be, the content will be with the public again, so. Yeah, thank you. So especially in Germany, they have right now big issues regarding their legitimacy, and that's a strong argument, because the C licenses, especially relevant, or what the public broadcasters can do, but not the private broadcasters, because they want to earn money with their content. Can you hear me? Yeah, okay. So I'm from Canada, and we recently just passed legislation regulating the social media companies, so if they ever want to host news on their organizations, like Facebook, they have to pay Canadian companies now for their news content. So that means that a whole bunch of companies, like Metta and I guess Twitter, but Xnow, they would have to pay for the content, but they don't want to do that, so they're blocking all the news content on those platforms now. So if we got this for our Canadian broadcasting company, for example, then they could put all of their stuff into Wikipedia instead of having to get there, trying to get Metta to agree with their terms and their legislation. Thanks, Chelsea, and I think that's a really good and interesting point that you raised there. Does anyone else have an idea or should we move on? All right, let's move on. How did we get TV content onto Wikipedia we'll show you by using two examples of two things that were quite successful in the German context. The first one is a program we call TerraX, or they call themselves TerraX. It's a documentary program. It's probably the most prestigious documentary program on German TV. It's run by the ZTF, the agency that we just saw in an earlier picture. Yeah, not to be confused with X from Elon Musk. Not to be confused with X, exactly. And they have been releasing short clips under a CCBI or CCBI Share Like license since 2019. The amount of videos they have released has now grown to over 350 short videos. It's constantly growing, two videos added a week. Most of these videos find their way onto Wikipedia and on Wikipedia they've raked in over 18 million views. They get more than three million views a month. These are numbers that make the agencies very proud and also very jealous of each other. And this has been one of the ways that we've been able to get other agencies to follow suit. Yes, so, and what was the rate that we get? 80 million views of ZTF content in German Wikipedia only. So I think in English Wikipedia numbers would be even higher. So the first ideas we had already in 2016 that, yeah, from the voluntary community, but also we can meet at Germany at some ideas and that's very helpful from the ZTF themselves from the Broadcasting Council. So, yeah, we found together in 2018 at the round table organized by Wikimedia Germany by the predecessor of Dave. And, yeah, at the same year, the German Wikimania, the Wikicon, that we found also together with the voluntary community and so on. And the idea to start a project, which we called in the end, Wikilovs TV and Radio, later Wikilovs Broadcast, yeah, was born. And why do we need a project for that? So, yeah, we can talk transparently to the community. We can show who we are. We can document everything. And in the next step, we would like to transfer everything to Meta and, yeah, to make it internalized. And in 2019, then the pilot project with Terra X started and the first tips was licensed under CC. And, yeah, shortly afterwards, luckily it was successful. We had our workshop with the ZTF and explained them in detail what works on Wikimedia, what doesn't work. And, yeah, in 2021, we were awarded for the project with the BKO. And now it has, as David said, told you more than 3 million views per month or 80 million views in total. So let's give you a quick idea of what is that we're talking about. What do these clips look like that have been released under a free CC license and have made their way onto Wikimedia? Can you guys? You just saw, has over 4 million views on Wikimedia. It's the most popular clip on Wikimedia. As you can tell, it has very high production value when it comes to the animations. You don't see any human faces. That's an issue that's going to be important. But this is what it looks like when you find it on Wikimedia itself. This is, you saw the clip was in German. So obviously you'll find it on German Wikimedia. But as you saw, it was also subtitled in English. And you'll find other subtitles for this video that have been created by the Wikimedia community. So you can also find this video that we just saw in the English Wikimedia. When you look up the page for Taj Mahal, it'll show you this very animation. So if you've ever stumbled upon a clip, a video clip, similar to this one on a language version that is German, English, Arabic, Tataric, Bosniak, it'll likely be from this project. Yes, so how did we got the content into Wikimedia? So there are two complex systems. On the left side, you see the German broadcasting system, a bit simplified. And on the right side, you see the German Wikipedian system. And now we had to find the right people to talk to. So yeah, there's the Fernsehrad in this case who elects the CEOs of the ZDF. That's the Broadcasting Council in case you can't read it. Yeah. And okay, we had Wikimedia Germany who isn't the Wikipedia community, but at least a place where you find people who you can talk to. So yeah, so it is important also in your case if you want to do something like that to find the right partners. So not only the Broadcasting Council, but also in the politics and so on. And yeah, we of course like to help you in that way to find the right contact person. But then we have the next question to you. So which public broadcasting agencies exist in your country and how can you get in touch with decision makers at these agencies and in the politics? Or don't you have any idea? Maybe you can tell us a little bit about where you're from and what the agencies look like in your country. And then we can move on to the next step. Well, I just wanted to say as a visiting from the United States, so we do have an atypical public broadcasting situation I was thinking about during your last argument. We don't pay a license fee on sets and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is not directly owned by the government. It is of course, there is a, it gets some money but the rest of it comes as anybody who's watched PBS in the US knows every few months. The rest of it comes from viewers like you. We would, yes, yes. And often on-air phone bankathons. So arguments for release, some of those arguments for releasing this under CC licenses, I know some of the people at PBS would probably be amenable to them but you don't have the moral arguments like we already paid for this. It has to be like, wouldn't this accomplish a mission? But I think the short videos like the one you just showed of the Taj Mahal that's a place to start working with them. Thanks a lot. So maybe in the future there will also come English material from DW. So we can't promise it right now but things going on. So maybe you can also show it to them. Hey, they did it already. In our Wikipedia. Hello, I'm Eugene Mundi from Japanese Community. Our, in our country there are some TV broadcasters such as NHK or TV Asahi and so on. And by the way, I am the one of the Wikimediawm of this year. And I have some interview sessions at this Wikimania. And after that I have some interviews. So when I or some Wikimedians have the interview session with the media, we try to convince them to understand the collaboration between the Wikimediawm movement is such a really valuable, maybe it is easier than uploading their content on YouTube. So it is not a systematic way but we as one of the Wikimediawm of the year, I will try to it. Thanks a lot. And I did some research on the Japanese Broadcasting Agency and they have actually dabbled with CC licensing in the past. So it's not something that's completely new to them. That's something maybe you can bring up to them. And we can stay in touch, give you my card and I can show you the research that I've done on this. And maybe you can take this further. Anybody else wanna talk about where they're from and what public broadcasting looks like in your country? So I'm from Indonesia and there are only two public broadcasting agencies. The one is the National Radio which we know as Radio Republic Indonesia. And the second one is the Teferi or the Indonesian National Television. So most of this media is obsolete because it hasn't been maintained regularly by the government and only people watches it. It has a really old style but most of the broadcasts they give to people is really old. And it's really hard to get in contact with us because they are watched by old people and so most of the people who maintain these are also old and it's kind of bureaucratic because it exists under a ministry and we have a hard time contacting the ministry. And so the best way to us is not to convince public broadcasting agencies but instead the commercial because some of the commercial broadcasting agencies have licensed their videos under CC. For example, we have Flake 2 that have regularly broadcasted all of their footages in with CC license. That's great to hear. I didn't know that that was the case. Usually we find it a little harder even to talk to commercial broadcasters but we should also definitely stay in touch. All right, I think we're gonna move on to the next slide and this is the second story that we wanna share with you. It's on the Target Show which is the most prestigious news program on German TV. We don't like to brag but we got in some nice examples. This is, they've been releasing content since 2022 under a CC by share like license. So far 78 short videos have been released. Near half of them have been integrated on Wikipedia. I'm sure there's more to come. If it's relevant and if it fits, it doesn't always fit and these videos have raked in over 800,000 views already in less than eight months. Those are numbers that don't quite reach the other example that we've shown you but they're still very substantial and I think lots of people at this agency are very happy with them. And we'll give you a brief example of what this looks like as well. Guys, can you play the clip? Unfortunately, there are no subtitles yet but this is a video on the difference between sex and gender. The fact that it's only in German, it's also made its way into the Arabic, the Tataric and some other very interesting language versions. So why in Taro? So if you, you did it, you can explain us why. It's the beauty of Wikipedia. Great, thank you very much. So as you saw, this is maybe a little lower production value but it still drives home. The point that's trying to make very, I think very succinctly and you can find it right on top of the German article on gender for instance and if should this be translated by anyone of you for example, or with a readup or a subtitle and this could also finance way into the English and the Dutch Wiki and that would be even better I think. As you can see here, this is an example for Tarex videos. The videos don't only show up in German. As I've already mentioned, everybody can go and read up them. Everybody can go and write subtitles. You find that we have Dutch readups, Latin readups and Welsh readups. So there are some people that are very active in that community and we have subtitles and all sorts of languages, Catalan, Esperanto, French, Spanish, English obviously. And sometimes these videos also make the media of the day. And we would be very glad if there will be also English readups in one day. English readups obviously would be a huge step forward. I think with English readups, you would be able to get a lot of these videos into the English Wikipedia and they would drive up the view count even more and they would get even more agencies interested in doing something like this. So this really can be a snowballing system. But it doesn't have to be explanatory videos like the ones that we just saw. It can also be videos similar to ones that have been released by the Deutsche Welle, which is Germany's foreign language agency. And they have been releasing, they have released 14 clips of their daily drone under a CC by 4.0. All of them have found their way onto Wikipedia. There's a high demand for stuff like this in the community for simple footage that just complements the text without making a big fuss. The advantages that factual mistakes or simplified depictions are hardly possible because you're just showing how things work and how they look like and maybe what they sound like. And they often come with good production value, although good atmospheric background now is quite desirable. And I think we do have the time to watch an instance of this one as well. If you guys don't mind clicking a third time. As you can see, they're all on Wikimedia comments in these videos that we've been watching. Yeah, no, it hasn't any audio. We always like to have the natural sound on it, but in this case, it was a drone which filmed it and yeah, we got it without any audio. But it is under CC, so if you would like to have music behind it or not, you can put it in. Well, we're watching this video. I already, I'm gonna hand out a sign-up sheet. If you guys wanna be part of an international Wikilevus broadcast network, if you wanna link up and connect and talk about how we can make what we did in Germany possible for the rest of the world, please do put in your name, your email address, and I'll make sure to establish some sort of group. But that's it from us for now. And now we would like to open up the floor for questions that you may have. Are there any questions? That's right. So one of the major problems that I see with media, whether it is text, audio, or video, is that rather public or commercial is that these kinds of medias have a tendency to repost other media's content. So for example, they would replace one or two sentences or take a substantial portion of the other media videos and then claim it as their own. How do you ensure that these medias do not take derivative content of other medias? Because if this happened, it might jeopardize the CC by license that you use, because it was taken as a derivative and you haven't probably asked the other media to use it as a derivative. Thank you. So you mean why we can use it? Yes, might use these as a derivative. And so, yeah. Well, but that would be allowed on the RCC by a share like license, right? You can make derivations. Use derivative from other medias and they... Yeah, no, in this case, so we don't get all documentaries. We only get footages which are especially fine for Wikipedia because you don't go to Wikipedia and want to see a documentary. Then you go to YouTube or something like that. So we only get short footages where the broadcasters have the whole rights on the videos. Yes, this is a stipulation that's very important. Broadcasting agencies only feel comfortable sharing this content under a free license if they hold all the rights. Otherwise, clearing those rights is very, very difficult and tedious. Do you try to get all of the... Like a full catalog or do you try to get, hey, we identified 10 specific clips that we would like, please do those? We try to get more than just a bunch of specific clips. We try to make this a more standardized procedure. So we are aiming for a catalog as you might call it. This catalog has natural limitations due to the fact that there's only a certain amount of clips that these agencies do have the rights for. There's only a certain number of clips where you don't see human faces because at least under German law you can come into all kinds of muddy waters with that. Obviously there's a whole bunch of clips that aren't up to date anymore that might be in their archives and they're not factually accurate anymore so we don't want to have them on Wikipedia and they don't want to release it because their brand would still be on it and it wouldn't be a good look for them. But apart from that, we are aiming for a wide array of clips to be released and because we make the argument that this is not just for Wikipedia, it's also so that it can be used in schools and it can be used in other educational environments. Even if it's not suitable for Wikipedia, we still advocate for it to be released under a free Creative Commons license. We can't promise that it'll find its way into Wikipedia because that's up to the community but we still think that this is a good idea even if Wikipedia is not the only reason why they should do it. And one more point, so in Germany, they are not allowed to produce for Wikipedia but they are allowed to produce other Creative Commons. So, officially they license it under CC and then we can use it but we don't have to and it's always important at least in the German Wikipedia where yeah, maybe the community doesn't like a clip or something like that to have the options to tell them always it's not necessarily in Wikipedia when it's licensed under CC by but it makes it possible to. Are there any steps that you take to encourage people to I guess know that the clips are out there for citation or is it just sort of you let people know in advance? So, we tell always the broadcasters how important it is to site but in fact Wikipedia sites also the broadcasters that's not always scientific so they don't have to if they want to bring things to Wikipedia just if there's any conflict then we tell them okay when we don't know where you have the information from the video can't be integrated into Wikipedia but if you make it transparent where you have the information from maybe Wikipedia is wrong so we can kick it out. And if I understood the first part of your question directly you're asking about do we let anyone know that this content is being uploaded? That's what Wikilev's broadcast is for they serve as an interface between Wikimedia Deutschland who is not allowed to edit and shouldn't edit and shouldn't do this themselves and the agencies and they are the ones that are being invited for workshops with the agencies so that the agencies know how this whole process works how the community works how content is being uploaded by the way there's more than one list if this one runs out of space and they are also the ones being briefed and notified of new content being submitted and then they are also the ones that usually are the ones that integrated on Wikipedia although it's free for everyone to do that. So any more questions? Okay maybe we showed you a few examples of videos but which kind of videos would be relevant to for Wikipedia or not necessarily video but broadcasting content? So these are the other questions that we came up with to get a bit of a conversation going. We already talked about the first one I guess Kevin just asked the third question do you know of any educational programs in your country? They could don't have to be educational but educational always makes it easier and it's usually more suitable for Wikipedia that could be CC licensed and worthwhile for Wikipedia. I guess this goes one step further from thinking about which agencies exist to what's the stuff that you watch growing up what's the stuff that you are like oh man I wish this was on Wikipedia this would be such a good fit. So maybe I can come with a hint so in German Wikipedia we are always also asking the broadcasters for interviews so why might be interviews relevant for Wikipedia? Any ideas? Maybe the interview was noteworthy maybe it was notable someone said something interesting it confirms that the subject that the subject of the interview said something about themselves or about something and it's sort of an inline source. Yes but also often people who get interviewed by the public broadcasters are relevant for Wikipedia so if you only have pictures of them you don't know how they interacted how they talked what opinion they had really so from a primary source and all of that makes them or due to all the points Wikipedia would benefit from interview from video material like interviews. Is there any other content that you could see befitting Wikipedia? So maybe not only audio and not only videos but also audio material maybe? We certainly included audio of people's voices and other articles especially they have a very distinctive voice that's part of there I can't imagine I don't know if the article about Wilson Wells has his voice but anybody who knows anything about him knows that his voice was one of his greatest assets and widely remarked upon. Yes and sometimes you don't even have the in-person interviews not on Anna CC but maybe the voices so that could help definitely. Yeah I'm just thinking of an example of museums that often have like an informational display where they illustrate graphically some complex thing about tectonic plates or whatever and that's often content they're producing that doesn't have people in it that could be really helpful on an article about those concepts. Yeah that's a great point and the idea of showing the graphical visualization of something I think is something that I mean this is probably a more fundamental discussion in Wikipedia and in the Wikimedia movement but it's something that could help Wikipedia keep up with some of with how other platforms are being used I mean Wikipedia does not want to be YouTube it doesn't want to be TikTok for sure but if we look at how people consume information these days I think a lot of people also enjoy visualized information and so the more we can get that kind of information on Wikipedia the more we can make Wikipedia resilient for the future. Yeah I was also thinking when we talked about interviews and why we have them what about when the interview itself is something notable, something aspect I was thinking if there's any British Wikipedia's in the room all I have to say is Sex Pistols on the Today Show and that is a moment everybody remembers and is notable in the story of the Sex Pistols and I can't remember if that was on the BBC or it was on ITN but it was good if it were somehow something that could be released under CC we could put it in the article it would eliminate having to write a great deal about it. Or Frost and Nixon, right? I mean talk about it, yeah that's a long interview but... But also maybe after your question then also maybe fictional things what can be their role event for Wikipedia if you think about it? So probably this is just an explanation but after a bit of searching I found something like similar to this done much earlier in 2013 it's called the BBC Voice Project it's done by Andy Mehmet in which he extracted, cooperated with the BBC and extracted voices of notable English with these English figures who had their interview by the BBC and that the voice is being used as a snippet in their respective articles in the English Wikipedia so this might be an interesting example of how audios from TV interviews are being used for the project. I just also thought about animal species that might be endangered by extinction so of course there might be photos or I don't know, drawings but it's a difference to see the animal, the species making noises, moving and this could also make sense hopefully not every species will be extinct soon but yeah, this might be an interesting thing as well. That's a great point and I think lots of I mean if we think about wildlife photography, wildlife documentation on the British Broadcasting Corporation I mean that is some excellent footage right there and they're not going to release all of that for sure but maybe a five second clip of how a panther moves why not? The BBC has dabbled with CC Lions in the past actually they did that in 2005 so a long time ago and they did that again in 2009 it's been a while but they're under huge attack and so they're pretty embattled in the public discourse this could be a way for them to get some good PR and to gain the upper hand again and show that they have a democratic mandate and they have public legitimacy and that they're there for the people and especially Terra X is famous for their animal videos and they gave us already some great footage of that so it's really awesome, the project with them I think the time is already almost running out I think we have like four minutes left One minute left so what is left for me to do is I'm going to give all of you my card I'm going to be really intrusive here so that we definitely stay in touch one way or the other if you think about setting something like this up in your country you know each other, okay and you must message me we will be also here in front of the door if you have any questions Thank you and yeah maybe we can go also to the next room 308 I think there's always space to discuss and yeah we would like to see you there or in our Instagram group or whatever Yes we will stay around for a little while thank you very much for your attention if you have any questions that you want to discuss off the record we'll be sticking around for a second as you said and thanks a lot for coming thanks a lot for talking with us