 Hello, good evening. This is the January 11th meeting of the Amherst Transportation Advisory Commission. We do have a quorum of members present. I hope that some of the other members will also tune in. But we can go ahead and start the meeting. We do have a statement we need to read just about having a remote meeting. And Kim, do you want to read the statement or I also have it. Okay, we can't hear you. Yes, now you can. Pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions that open meeting law. This meeting of the Transportation Advisory Committee is conducted via remote participation. Excellent. And so let's just go ahead. It's always helpful for Amber with the minutes to at least like go around the room or virtual room and just identify who's here. So, particularly for people who aren't shown on the screen. So, I'll start and I'm Tracy Zafian, and I'm the chair. So, I'm Kim Tremblay, the vice chair. Joe Fadaruso attack member. Not a Smith attack member. All right. Excellent. Thank you all. Thank you all for being here. All right, let's go ahead and get started. So, I sent around the agenda. I can pull it up again if we need to. The agenda was a little bit light because this is. You know, right as the new council is getting started, but we did have some carryover items that we still wanted to discuss. Including just the role of tack and tax status and the future of tack and those types of things. So the first items I had put on the agenda. We're just some informational updates. Current status items, which are just our things that tack is not actively involved with, but I thought that they're helpful for members to have that information. So the first one I had put on the agenda was just the traffic calming near Cushman Scott in North Amherst. And I can just share on my screen. What the resolution that went to the council. Just so people can just take a look at it. Okay, so. So I hadn't been present. So what happened was TSO voted. To. To ask for make the following recommendations to the town council, the town council, when they met on December 18th, they accepted those recommendations. So here is I'm showing that the council recommended. Adding dynamic speed feedback science in each direction of traffic on that section of Henry street, having increased traffic detail from the Amherst police department. And they also asked to report back from the town manager regarding recommendations for traffic calming measures. I know that they were also looking for some additional guidance about. Traffic safety zones and what's required before they can be established. So Guilford, I don't know if you had any updates. On that at all. I know you had been looking at hiring a consultant. The consultants on board and you actually know more information than I do. That's hard to believe, but okay. No, I haven't seen what you saw. So you should. So that's that's more information there than we have. All right. Well, so that's what I just pulled up here is just the TSO carry over memo that they sent to the council. And I also just, we do have additional member present in the room. So. Chris, will you just identify yourself and Amber will have you in the minutes. Hi, I'm Christine. All right. Thank you. All right. So other carry over items from the council. I'll just pull that up again. So, yes, I guess, Guilford, just before we move on with that issue with the Henry street study. Is there a timeframe for when the consultant will be doing that study? I imagine we done about 2 months. So I know that like 1 of the concerns that tack it raise and then some TSO members echoed is just to make sure that the traffic counts are done until you mass this back in session, which happens at the beginning of February. So is that the current timeframe for that? They'll use the current. We've done already done 2 rounds of traffic counts out there. I'll just use those. Thank you. Let me pull this up again. Okay, so this was just from the carry over memo. Let's see the other items that I thought would mainly be of interest to to tack. So 1 thing that's been a carry over for a long time is this north pleasant street from Pinemen to Eastman lane. So tack members who are here then and I think we had most of the current members on tack at that time. That we did go ahead and we did review the state. The conditions along that section of north pleasant street east north of Eastman Eastman is where the roundabout is at the mass campus going north. Towards the center of downtown. Down north Amherst. And then it kind of got put on the back burner. You know, there was it was coming before the council in the fall when I guess there was a proposed bus stop, but that didn't move forward. So, I don't know, Guilford, do you have any updates on that at all? It's on the list to go back to them, but they haven't scheduled it yet. And I did talk to the last to chair to about providing with with the information that we had collected and the feedback that we had at that time. So one of the things that happened. And this was actually before not this past council, but the council before that. The council that was in an office from 2022 and 2023 is that it got one of the things is that there were other traffic issues that that council was looking at including on north pleasant street at Kendrick Park. And so this particularly because it weren't funds to move this project forward. It just stayed out there. So, but it would be great. I think and I did talk to the last to chair about, you know, providing some input to them just based on the earlier site visits that we did there because tech did spend quite a lot of time so and then let's see. There was also. All right, Christine has her hands up. Chris. Hi. I was just curious. And this might not be the right time for it, but so it's possible for the town council to recommend that this happened but still there be would be no funding for it so it wouldn't happen is, is that what you're saying or do funding steps occur concurrently with decision making. I'm not quite following that piece. So, I don't know maybe Gilford can speak to that more, but I believe that the, the council could recommend it, you know, pending funding. But and there have been some improvements there, like there have been the changes up at the north end. You know, just pine straight with the sidewalks and things. So, and I know that Chris press up when she's come to our meeting she's talked about different smaller pieces of it. Again, like pending the funding, I think that the council could still move forward. But yeah, that's a separate item. Funding and recommending. Yeah, I mean, and your Gilford, do you have comments. Yeah, actually, it's from my standpoint, once the council approves it, then we start kind of move, moving it around to try to find funding. And if it doesn't have, there's no funding laying around, then we would ask for more funding or just move it off into another year. There's a standing appropriation for sidewalks and paving every year and something like this would just get put into that standard sidewalk appropriation. Thank you. Andy, did you have anything to your hand is raised. Yeah, I was up on a slightly different element of it. The action to get into what you'll for it was just pointing out. I think it'd be important for this committee in the council. To sort of weigh in on all roads together. It's sort of hard to say, gee, this is a priority and ought to get funding when we know that there's such a huge backlog that where does it lie in your assessment of where the greatest needs are. And that's where your expertise, looking at the whole range of roads really needs to get better, a better sense of where the roles are and how to play it out. But I would hate to have the council jump and say, yeah, we like this project. And it'd be, it'd be interpreted to be a prioritization that has not worked through an appropriate sequence. So I guess that was my comment on that. And the other thing that I was going to raise just to bring it out is I think that in my recollection at the TSM meeting, Guilford was that the major reason that it was coming up and getting a little bit more attention was because of the question about the location of bus stop. Yes, I mean the neighbors are using the bus stop as a reason to stop something else that was going on, but to bring it back to the council. But North Pleasant Street is one of the tax, the tax many years ago, but it's some priorities and North Pleasant Street sidewalk improvements was their number one priority. And then there's other projects that have already been vetted by the attack as being the next priority for sidewalks or improvements. There's East Pleasant Street, which is actually going really slow. There's pot, pot wine and 116 which actually is moved ahead a little bit faster than East Pleasant Street. So it's, that's kind of how these have moved forward. Right so and I mean the tack has shared so it's been a few years since we looked at that list, but the tack has shared our list previously. I think that one of the challenges right is the tack as an advisory committee, like we can tell the council that these are among our priorities. And then I know, I think it's like last meeting or the meeting before that we were also talking about, like the South Amherst common area, which is something that tax spend a lot of time thinking about even before I was on the committee. So that's actually been one that's been around for at least like five, six plus years because I've now been on the committee for close to five. So, I think that we could do that at a future meeting. I know that go for two is sometimes filled up that he has his spreadsheet of like the identified priorities and things and we can tell the council what our priorities are, but as an advisory committee. You know, we sort of have some limit and we've also talked about whether we should be. Whether we should be telling the council that. You know, so, but. In our last, the last memo, when we send a memo to the council in 2022, we didn't include our own personal list. But I'd be happy to talk to, we could talk again about whether that's something we want to share because some of the projects we did identify back in 2022, including better access with graph park and at palm oil and things those have moved forward so that is some progress. So a couple of other things that were on the carryover memo from TSO. One is the proposed street lights policy. So TSO had reviewed this a few different times. Over the fall. And even, you know, going back almost a year. And the last action that they took was. And the council agreed was to direct the town manager to develop an updated street lights policy based on the policy that was proposed by. Culture's Devlin got here and had a key. And so, um, when I spoke with the town manager about that, he said it's now in DPW's hands. So. So, I don't know if you have any updates on that yet, but. No, we have to get a meeting with our, um. Our light vendor. I haven't got set up yet. Sure. Um, so that's something, you know, as I had offered previously that. You know, given the research I did when that policy came up, I'm happy. I'm happy to share some of that information with you. Um, then the last carryover item, and this is one that's been on the agenda for a while. So it was just these thing, these mass general law, you know, chapter. 17 C and 18 B about. Speed control within municipalities. So 1 of them. You know, there is the traffic. Speed zone, the safety speed zones that we can can be created. And that is something that the council has now adopted though. You know, they're looking at Henry street as the 1st case. The other is the idea of establishing a 25 mile per hour speed limit throughout town, except for where otherwise posted. I mean, that hasn't moved forward yet. I'm not sure what a priority that will be for the next. So, but I imagine it will come up because I think it's actually come up even. It says that it was originally referred to TSO in 2019, but I believe it had come up even like 5, 10 years earlier. And Andy might know a little bit of that history having been on the council and the select board for all that time. So, okay, so I'll just stop sharing those. And let's see. So. The other thing is so those are carryover items, the road project updates. Okay. So 1 thing in the town manager's report. And Guilford may have more additional information on this, but he had met with. There's a list of places where they're going to be doing like improved crosswalks and rectangular rapid flashing beacons near Amherst college. See where. Yeah, I can just hold on pull this up. So this is all just kind of an update part of the meeting. Um, so these are all these are all signs that Amherst college has agreed to pay for. And so I'm Guilford. I'm assuming that you had been involved. The DPW was involved in reviewing all these and making recommendations to the town manager. Correct. Yes. I mean, basically we're just taking the project that was approved many years ago to put the little push buttons and the flashing lights in. Um, and making them conform with the, you know, for manual traffic control devices. So that's all it is. So all the ones that are, so are there any additional ones? So all these ones along college or where they currently have those lower. The boulders right at like waist level height. And then there's also the ones on South Pleasant street. Yes, they're all the every, every place there's a crosswalk on South Pleasant or college where you push the button and it flashes on the side of the road. Right. That's not going to be a regular R. And then, and then also these new speedback speed feedback signs, which haven't been there previously. And they're, they're only on one, they're only on college. They're only on college. No, it says South Pleasant. Okay. Um, and it says one southbound and one northbound. So, do you know what the timeframe is for those being installed or. They're going to probably get installed sometime in February the vendor. It's a supply issue. They haven't shown up yet. Okay. But you're not really involved. Are you involved with any of that? Or is Amherst college doing all of it? Amherst college is buying it and Amherst college and the town will work together to start replacing everything. Got it. All right. Well, thank you. Okay. Let's see other updates. Did you have any other updates for us? I know that there's the root nine, like the work on North Hampton road. It looks like that's all done now. Everything signs. That's all done. They're closing it out. There's a couple of issues. Which I don't know how they're going to resolve, but they're not mine to resolve. So I'm happy. The one thing to note is that there, we have our first left turn bike boxes in town. We're trying to get something together to put on the website to talk about those, but you have, you have the left turn boxes now at the intersection of nine and. You know, drive. Yeah, so there's a professor at UMass Amherst, Eleni Christoffer. She's done a lot of work on bike boxes. She's done. She's now on the second phase of a study that she's done for mass DOT about the use of bike boxes in the state and how they can be configured better. And also just how effective they are and so on. I'm happy to share like her information from her study. But I was also talking with her about it. And one thing we were wondering actually, I mean, it is very exciting to have them here because I don't actually believe they're even. They can be almost anywhere in like Western mass. And they can really be helpful. But one question we had is just like how much the bike traffic actually is on route nine like typically, like it seems that at least in the better weather that a lot of cyclists would be taking the real trail more than they'd be on nine. Well, the real trail crosses there. So, right. Yeah, most of the traffic is people crossing, crossing nine on nine or but then there's now bike lanes on nine. So maybe there'll be more people and there's a bike lane actually bike lane on both sides of nine. So hopefully. Yeah, and the real trailer isn't clear during the winter. Right. So it is an important quarter then but just it takes a certain confidence as a bicyclist to be biking. Like along that quarter just given even with the separated bike lane, visually separated bike lane and so on. So where is the bike lane? Where is the bike box? They're at the intersection of University Drive and route nine. I haven't seen them. So are they going up? Which direction? So the bike, the way the bike boxes work is that they're at each corner of that intersection. And the idea is you go through, like if you need to make a left turn, you go through the intersection and then there's a box that you wait in. Right. And then it allows you to like safely go left and not have to be like in the left turn lane in the car lane, basically to go left. I could go right now. And there are signs, you know, at each one for a while the signs are up it said bike box here when there was no green marking on the pavement but now there's green marking on the pavement. I just think a few of the signs are like misaligned in my opinion but. But yeah, cool. But they have been proven to be effective and improve safety in other areas. So it is pretty exciting to have them there. And then, so go for it. I had a question to just about the four foot passing signs. So has Amherst has received some from the state. We have. And there are other ideas yet about where they're going to go. They've started going up. They're going up mostly. I mean, the goal is to tell people entering town. This is the rule. And then there's a couple extras and then we're going to put those in a couple other places. So they're being put in. Are they being put in places where there aren't bike lanes. Yes, it's good because that's where they're most needed. They're going, they're going in. It's basically any road that comes in the town is going to have one on it somewhere. So Bay Road. Even some of the ones you wouldn't think we put some, there's on one East Lever Road. There's one. I'm trying to think of the top of the head where they are. Belchown Road has them. So anywhere where you come in the town East Hadley Road. Yes, Bay Road has them. What we have left to do is West. West Street and South Pleasant, which we have a couple of extra signs and we'll probably put more on that one. Nice. In my opinion, we could really use one on whatever that street is that goes by the high school by the playing fields. Triangle. Is that triangle that goes like ends by Bruno's. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's triangle. But they do have, I mean that road at least does have sidewalks on both sides, right? No, it doesn't. Only on one. Only on one side and they're really narrow. So like biking is really dangerous on the road. I feel dangerous and I'm the most interested. So it has on the side of crossing the school it has sidewalks up to cottage. Is that right? On the school side. Yeah. No, it goes all goes all the way down to Bruno's and then down. No, but I'm saying the sidewalk though. Yeah. The sidewalk ends on the side away from the school is that's that's what you're saying, right? Yes. By the way, yeah, yeah. As it approaches like lessy, like there's none. There's none at the lessy curve and things, for example, which actually comes to the next item, which was safe routes to school updates. So Jeremy Anderson, who was one of the Cushman Scott parents. Like over. In December, he reached out to some. The town counselors in North Amherst and. And also believe he'd like emailed the town manager and the DPW. Amherst police just about he had interest in having. The speed signs of your speed is signs like put in. On the approaches to the elementary schools. Around town. To help. Make people aware of how fast they're going. And to make it safer in those areas. So he was interested in submitting his request as a residential. Request for the capital improvement plan for 2025, which would start in the July. 2025 year. And I just emailed him back today. Unfortunately, I didn't get to it sooner. But just also telling him about how one of our focuses had been improving. Kim, as you were just mentioning, just about the safety along triangle street. And that neither the high school nor the middle school do have safe route to school signs yet or safe zone sign. Which would allow for there to be reduced speeds. During school hours. So I know that came up at a previous meeting. I don't know go and go for you would thought that. You might look into that a little more. I was wondering if you had a chance to do that. So. I still see that as like one potential priority. Yeah. And particularly, I mean, one of the things where the high school students to is that the high school students do walk back and forth. Between the school and downtown and they do. At night. And I found personally that even though there's now that rectangular rapid flashing beacon. I guess it's wouldn't really help. Because the school zone speed limits are only enforceable during school hours, but. When I've tried to cross it less even though there's a rectangular rapid flashing beacon there, I find that traffic is not yielding to me at all. Even when the lights are flashing. So I think anything we can do to like make that corridor safer. It's a good idea. So we'll see I did reach out to you and Jeremy and we'll see if he gets back to us. To. And I also don't know what the timeframe is yet for the town to solicit. Resident request for the cap improvement plan. But. And then also the safety school, they do have a sign to line program that can help pay for signs. But 1, the grant is not until the fall. And it's also a pretty small program. Last year, they did offer like upgraded. And they gave them out to over like 125, maybe 140 communities. Amherst wasn't one of them. But if they do that again, maybe that could be something that Amherst applies for. Okay. And then, okay, so let's move on to the stuff about tech. In relationship to TSO and the council. So I have had some conversations with the town manager about the idea of a transportation commission, which is something he brought up to the council. Earlier in the fall, and there was some. You know, pushback about that idea about counselors giving up some of their authority as keepers of the public way. And they also asked a number of questions, including looking for more information about where it's been implemented. The town manager had provided them with the spreadsheet showing all the communities. They are any, any town that's a, any city in Massachusetts and Amherst, even though we call ourselves a town of Amherst were technically a city. Any city is allowed to establish them. And so a number have done so. And they work in different ways. And that's something that the town manager is still looking at, and he will bring back an updated proposal to the council and that's something I'm working on him with. But in the meantime, you know, that could be, you know, three, six months longer, plus we don't know how the council will feel about it. So I do like the idea and we talked about this at our meeting in November. In mid November about just resending the memo that we had sent to the council previously just about this is tack and this is what we do and. And we really don't have too many updates from 2022 and then came it also prepared like a kind of cover letter to it. So, I'd like to go over that but if people have other comments, we can also talk about it. What do people think? So here I'll pull up Kim relative to the memo or to the idea. Well, the idea of it too. And I think to, you know, as now that there's the new council and there's the new TSO. So there is a the new TSO Andy Steinberg who's joined us tonight. We appreciate him being here but like all the rest of the members on TSO are new members. Including Jennifer Todd, Heather Lord, George Ryan and Bob Hedner. So I think George Ryan had been on TSO previously when he was previously a counselor, but none of the other counselors have so. I mean, I think ever since the creation of the council. And there's been questions about what is tack, what does tack do, what does tax roll. All those kind of things. So. I think it's a good time to send it back to the council for consideration and particularly the TSO if we expect that we could. Because TSO could reach out to us and ask us for input and we can help them if they give us ways in which to do that. But Chris. There's any harm in doing it. I don't know, Andy, if you feel that there's, it would just be good to know if you feel like there's another way or another approach that we could take to educating the new. Committee members. I think that we need to get into the better discussion and might be having a joint meeting might some fairly quickly might be helpful. I've been thinking about this for a while and we've trying various approaches. The manager had put forward the idea of creating sort of converting it from a advisory committee to a commission in actually giving authority to the commission. I'm intrigued by the idea though I have to acknowledge that there were several counselors who were really resistant to it as an idea. But I think it is one that is definitely worth pursuing. I think that we had a problem that over the last couple of years. That on your side, you have a lot of expertise that is not being utilized well. And to clarify what your role is and to have more of the development work done by you and have the ideas from your committee. I'm just wondering if it requires TSO action, then TSO or the council either one to go through TSO them to would have to act on it. I think that is requiring the action from DPW or others within the executive part of town and government where the work gets done. I think that the idea of clarifying what the role is and getting the midi charge updated to really reflect what the best path is is really important though it has to be coordinated with what Paul is thinking now as far as what he wants to propose. So, I'm a joint meeting with where Paul could be at too might be really helpful. My other observation is and be curious in your comments on this is from the TSO side, I think the TSO gets involved in so many different matters that it's sort of hard to really give the focus to transportation that you can as a separate body. And we're losing focus on things because of that. You know, one of the things that Jennifer Taub and I had been working on with Shalini Balmill who's no longer in the council and therefore no longer in the committee was the waste hauler. And then you get, as was mentioned earlier, the street light issues. So, and we had the water and sewer issues so there's so many different issues that I think the transportation issues aren't getting the focus that they need and that's what I really would like to see improved in the next two years. Yeah. Well, thank you. That's, that's really helpful feedback. So back in November. So when we met on November 16, like right after the tech meeting was a TSO meeting. And if you may recall, Andy, I think you were at that meeting, but that like a number of tech members attended it I did and Kim did and Marcus did just to voice, you know, that tech is frustrated about how we're not really being utilized and we're sort of left out of the loop and just looking for some guidance from TSO. And about how we can, and even from, you know, the town manager, we are a town manager committee about how we could be used and how we could be part of the conversation because it as it stands now a lot of, like, I mean, we're only asked and I think this is the point that was being raised in this, you know, this cover sheet to the older memo is that, you know, oftentimes tech is just waiting to be asked to like provide input and we've sometimes been told that we really don't, we can't provide input unless it's explicitly requested of us. So in that case, we're dependent on the TSO members to say we would like to get tax input. And the fact that tech isn't asked for input is one reason that I personally have sometimes just, even though I am also involved with tech but I just will weigh in myself particularly because I also think about these issues in my day job. You know, I'll try to lend some expertise and some knowledge to the discussions, even if tech is not asked to do that. But that isn't always like a comfortable place to be. And the fact that like tech isn't invited to the conversation is challenging for all of us. Yeah, I mean, Tracy, don't you think that, correct me if I'm wrong on this that because of the way that we're doing it in the last two years, where I was waiting for the committee to come up with things to ask for advice from you about is tech, it was, it was limited to the items that came to our attention. Ideas weren't really being generated. And that that's where we're missing the vital link that you could provide by if we clarify that the role of tech is more in generation of ideas. And the other observation to throw into this is yes, I do recall that meeting. But as you just pointed out, I'm the only carryover member from the last one, though, I think that having George Ryan back is very important. George did some really good work on the parking issue on Lincoln. And if you recall, that's where the policy about how you assess what's appropriate on street parking for different widths of streets and different types of streets, arterial or what, you know, which class they fall in. Developed an actual policy that could be applied. And that was George's work. So, you know, he has some background in this that will be helpful. And I would actually like to see him consider taking this on though I can't tie down his availability at the time you meet which is I'm trying to find out from him before we sign. Right. We signed our liaisons for the new council yet. Because he, yeah, he started coming to our committees, like the very first time when, I mean, when he was brand new, maybe even before that, I don't know, but. And he was chair at TSO for a while. And I felt like tack had pretty good communication then with him and that he was also clear when tax input was requested. You know, there was a line of communication where he would, you know, send. Instead of tack, instead of TSO meetings just saying, oh, we should get tax input and we should get the disability access advisory committee's input and nobody like reaching out explicitly like he was always reaching out and making that connection and saying we would like tax input and we would like tax input in the following ways, which gave us a framework for responding. Yeah, and providing the most useful input. We actually came to a number of our meetings when we used to do them in the before time in the town hall in the small room downstairs. And I mean he actively participated when it was just, I mean, there was no public it was pretty much just him and the rest of the, I don't remember if it was a tack at that point, I don't remember, but I mean he came to meetings meeting after meeting after meeting. So he really did understand how it worked and what are what what we did. Yeah, I think I don't think I was on tack at that time. But that's some good backgrounds. Yeah, that he was really so involved. Yeah. So Chris. Sorry, I have the room by going in the background. I hope that's not too distracting. Yeah, I guess. So in light of I guess I have two suggestions for a path forward. I definitely are three I definitely feel that sending the memo to the TSO is in the whole council is the right thing to do. Just for basic education. I do agree that asking Paul, maybe to engage with us at another meeting about what a transition to a commission would look like. What the different types of authority sharing there are. I'm sure that some commissions have less power than others in terms of the right of way. And if that is a point of contention. You know, it would be nice to know and hear what happens in other municipalities across the state to consider what could potentially work here. And then I guess a third idea would be that we just mean Andy is saying that making suggestions. It would be great if they were if it made sense for us to start making suggestions. We're kind of in a tailspin because we don't have any you know our mission is so unclear that it almost to me feels like a time suck to spend on making suggestions but on the other hand, if nobody else is doing it. So, re invigorating the bike plan that this committee worked on for many years and I think needs to be transcribed from. So that's one idea. Another would be to I know there's some, you know, information from you I think Gilford showed us a kind of a rundown of the streets and their grades. And, you know, we can be thoughtful about the streets and their grades and you know the ones that have the worst grades if they're the top priority what could happen for pedestrians along those as well. I mean I think there are ways that we can also just try to help fill that void that Andy is talking about. But I guess only. I'm only saying that based on hope like I hope it actually makes a difference but you know if, if there's no way that would take up our work in that area it feels a bit like a waste of time up front so I guess I'm undecided on that third point that I'm making. I guess just to go on to your comment Chris. You know it's just the forward thinking that we've done like the plans and the projections which I feel like the Council, like and the TSO just doesn't have time to think ahead right I mean that's at least in part, you know, to plan what's our vision for. And that's where I think our expertise and our are, you know all the strolls that we've made as a committee together, examining street quality and sidewalk quality and all these things I feel like we have a prioritization based on, you know, our plan. And that's the kind of thing that I feel like the TSO is kind of. They don't have the time space to be able to do that and I feel like that's something definitely that we can fill so Guilford also has his hand up. So the piece that's really missing is when people call in and our people email in there's a problem here. There's no clear place where it goes. And there's no clear process how it's looked at that. When you look at the transportation commissions or transportation organizations and other communities. The transportation committee is the receiver of those. And there's a process and there's a staff that does the preliminary look at all those things and produces a preliminary report. And that comes to that commission and that commission then makes a recommendation yay or nay, and how it falls into the work plan. Like you have Mr. Anderson, who is a diligent parent and diligent college employee who believes he's 100% correct in what he's proposing. And once that taken care of you have other parents and other sections of town who want their perceived are real issue addressed as well. And these traffic commissions and traffic committees and these other cities. That's what they do. They take that information. They listen. It gets sent to a staff member who can actually then go through and pull the information together accident reports, traffic counts, all that stuff. There's actually not a person capable of doing that right now because we don't have the staff to do it. So if you do it this type of committee or commission, you're going to have to staff it somehow. And whether you take one of the planners and planning that works with the town engineer or you give another person to the town engineer to do it. Part time or full time. That kind of has to happen. But that's a piece that's missing as well. How do citizens bring their concerns? How are citizens concerns? Vetted and how are those vetted concerns then prioritize into what's done next. And I will say, so in the research on the transportation commissions, which I've. You know, been working with the town manager on is in addition to inventory, which, which are the cities in Massachusetts do have transportation commissions, like actually. He and I have both been looking at, you know, the minutes agendas. I passed meeting items for the commissions and. I mean, I do recall 1 that basically their whole agenda is basically bringing forward and looking to resolve and address. The concerns that have been raised by residents and others. You know, and so their entire agenda is like going, you know, part of town by part of town. You know, parking on street parking issues at intersections, new crosswalks and so on like that. And just looking at them, they spend their entire meeting. Like focused on those details. And as go for says, in some of those cases, they're then saying, okay, we need to do a study here. We need to request. Support from the regional transportation agency to investigate it further. You know, we have the data already and things like that. And just really moving that forward. And. I mean, one thing I've liked about it is that it is a transparent process. You know, that people who have concerns can't bring it to that commission. If they put it on the agenda, they go through them. Some of their meetings are quite long. And then, you know, at the end of each meeting, you know, they, there's some items that they're carry through to the next meeting and staff will be addressing the meantime. And so on. And so like there is this process that you can follow. And I think it is important, you know, just like as Chris brought up about the bike, pet plan, but just also, you know, there are some documents out there already that the town has on where are, where should we be prioritizing. Improvements and repairs and so on, right. So the pavement management plan. Like inventory at all the roads and which roads are the worst condition. And those are the ones that Guilford uses to decide, you know. The improvement, like the repairs and we have the bike, pet plan, which also has the map. That's never been finished, but that also shows like the bike, pet corridors that are the most critical and things like that. So there are those resources out there already. And so I would hope that when requests come in that they can be seen in those, in those frameworks. But currently our process doesn't really support that as much as it could. Or probably should just so that. I mean, because a lot of this has already been thought about. So, but Chris comment. Oh yeah. I mean, I guess what, if, if we know that the council is particularly concerned about sharing authority around the right of way. That seems like a big deal. And I get why certain counselors would have that concern, but we actually just talked about a bunch of stuff that's also critically important that I don't think has much to do with the right of way. And so I'm wondering back in your court, Andy, if there's a way that TSO could request of Paul that, you know, the tack have a couple of particular pieces put into its charge. I think one that we are stock number one for complaints and concerns that are obviously non pressing. I mean, we're not going to deal with, like, you know, I just had a sewer line go bad on our street and obviously that's urgent and have a different type of response you know, should we put a sign here but I think maybe the town council could just decide that we can have some of these pieces we can be the first stop. And here's what you would want us to do with that. I think that's a question or complain or issue from a citizen and second would be to make recommendations tied back to some of the kind of management and vision documents that are already in existence and even if they're incomplete. There's no extent that they are in use or, you know, can serve as a recommendation, but it seems easy enough that TSO could just do that. And then I guess that would go to Paul and I guess right Paul would, I don't know, I'm just kind of putting it out there that those seem easy and they're, they don't seem to have have the bigger question of who has authority over the right of way at their heart. So, Andy, you have your hand up. Yeah, I mean decisions over right of way issues and thoughts about right of way issues. I still think we are not really coming up with a way of addressing it correctly yet. As you were talking about the example of your own streets or sewer problem I was thinking, what I was thinking about is how much we went through with Pomeroy court and how many complaints were coming from Pomeroy court in all sorts of different directions to staff, to council, and probably to you as a committee. And that the problem was just so expensive for a fairly limited number of residents is on the street that needed resolution but it was difficult figuring out how to get it resolution. And what we can learn from that. I was also interested in the fact that somebody mentioned South Hammers Common because you do do a lot of good work as a community on South Hammers Common, but that's a long time ago. That was actually when I was on the select board when we still had a select board. And my recollection is is that we were going to do some really intensive traffic studies and the bridge closed on Station Road. And it made the whole thing kind of useless because it was changing patterns so much that it was not going to be helpful to do any study any further studies then, and then it kind of got lost, but in the temporary bridge and still got lost. The pandemic was after that. And the pandemic came after correct. Yes, so we were, we're about to like put monitors around there and then the pandemic happened. Yeah. So, well, though when I, I think that in my conversations that I had with all about that it was. It makes sense to do it once the bridge was closed. When Station Road was closed because Station Road was such a Peter into that intersection. You know, lots of things, you know, things kind of come up tremendous amount of time gets spent on them. And for one or another reason, they get lost and it may be that staffing is the problem. And it's not going to be easy because, you know, Gilford said we need an additional staff person. Monitor to assist the commission to do that. But I don't know where the funds come from right now to hire somebody. We all know that the state budget is going to be in horrible shape and it's going to affect the town budget tremendously so we're, you know, just trying to figure that out. I think my suggestion would be we take advantage of the fact that we have a new tack. Our new excuse me, a new TSO. And that we try and use the fact that there's a new TSO to reenergize the discussion. And that I will provide support. I'm currently a son and as the area of her member from the last TSO to this one to try and press at this issue of how we deal with traffic issues and what your charge should be and what your role should be a top priority item for TSO during his first months and what's going to happen is that right now the Council is trying to get organized the first meetings of each of the committees for the new round. The first meeting that Cheryl elected and then the chair takes over and starts and gets into the question of what is it that we're going to address and how do we prioritize it and I will at that point, which I would guess is February be urging very strongly that we address not a specific policy issue about transportation but the general that we're discussing now as to how we address those issues and that we and I will bring up the suggestion of a joint meeting in order to do that and see if I can get some traction on it. I think I will get support from George which will be helpful and we also get some benefit from Jennifer being there because she was a big advocate for the Lincoln Avenue parking issue being a resident of Lincoln Avenue and she think we have a core people who will understand. When I think having two representatives from district three on TSO will be helpful just because district three does include like downtown areas with sidewalks and with the highest level of bicyclists and things like that so but thank you Andy that will be very helpful and I think once I mean I you know if other members want to speak but I mean I can see like once TSO is reformed like you know coming either tack and go back to TSO or you know we can have a joint meeting or something just about some of the attack and I will also be continuing conversations with the town manager just about this idea of the transportation commission because the time frame he gave me is he hopes to bring that to the council back in February as well. So I think you know we'll just wait until TSO is formed but I mean definitely something needs to change moving forward like I don't. I mean that was one reason I supported the idea of the transmission you know when it first came up is because it doesn't function well as is. So Chris I see you have your hand up but I just wanted to give like an opportunity to like Joe and Stefan and I don't know we I guess we lost Marcus temporarily but if either of you have any comments or contributions you want to make to the conversation. You're welcome to. Thanks nothing substantial but thanks Joe thanks. All right, so it sounds like there's general support for we have this you know cover memo that we wrote and we have the old 2022 memo which again not that much has changed. I'll just like pull it up temporarily but I would expect to send that to TSO and the council and then again bring it up at a TSO meeting once like the new TSO is up and running, and they have a new chair and things and I may reach out to some of the individual counselors who are on the TSO, because I know most of them already and also know that a number of them do care closely about transportation issues. Okay, I mean, I will say to I mean I'm glad that we're talking about it now and I was really disappointed. You know after we created that memo the last time two years ago and like nothing much ever happened right I know I shared it with the council president at that time and she put it in one of the council packets. There was you know there were just this, there's sort of the assumption that that TSO tax charge will be rewritten. You guys, if you remember like chair previously Aaron Hayden he had worked on a new charge and things and something was going to happen where there was going to be a new charge and I was sort of told, and every time though just wait because it's all going to happen but none of it has happened so I appreciate Andy's willingness to bring it up to TSO and the council again and hopefully we can finally move forward this time so. Because you've been in this holding pattern for a while, which I know is frustrating to all of us. So, all right. So, we don't have too much else for the agenda. I mean, the, I guess the next thing is to talk about when we could meet again. I mean, it sounds like, yep, Kim. I can't hear you. You're on mute. I'm on item eight, which is topics not reasonably. Okay. Sorry. All right. Well, let's do you want to bring up your topic before we figure out our next meeting or do you have. Well, it's just something that I've noticed in town with all of the, well, particularly so so in the earlier times, we were often consulted about like for example. The new development down by the Cumberland Farms on. Route nine, Yumi Beltran Road. Yes, or whatever that new development is that's off of that main that intersection. I think it's Southeast Street. Yes. We were consulted about about the sidewalks and access and whatever for that. We were also consulted, for example, about sidewalks. And the access to the like condominiums that are down where on University Drive that cross the wetlands and also you know how there's the weird bike lane that go down, you know, it's a divided kind of road there with the access road on the side. Does everyone know where I'm talking about down there? You're talking about University Drive between route nine and Amity. Yes. And we were also consulted about the access there and particularly access from the new development across the bike lane and went into the street on that, you know, that new, those new condos there. And we were consulted about that and we actually had a lot of input into that and I think that actually works really well. That access to that those condominiums because it passed through a sidewalk and also a bike lane and all that stuff. I'm really upset that we were not consulted at all about the access and the crosswalks between the new isn't North Pleasant and where the two new developments are next to the toy box downtown. The crosswalks there are really messed up like seriously skewed and I, we were never consulted about that and they don't work because people coming from downtown will not use the cross that I'm sure none of you have ever really paid attention to that crosswalk. And that affects me and many people who walk through downtown regularly. There's a new crosswalk to the newest development, you know, the newest. So, so there's the one. So there's the one that we were asked to weigh in like the planning director. She asked us to wait on the one that's near Garcia's, but I know you're talking about the one. No, I'm talking about, I'm talking about the one, even the, the. And that crosswalk is crazy and nobody will use it except for the people maybe coming out of that newest development and going to the bus stop that's directly across from it. But, but it's really, it's really, it's, it's really, really in the wrong direction and people who are crossing the street there are now using a non striped pattern. And I'm really, I'm really upset about it actually because it makes no sense. And we were never consulted like ever about this. I don't know who was consulted about it, because if anybody looked at it, it would not make any sense to anyone, considering the traffic flow. So, those are the kinds of and, and, and I've seen close calls there all the time because you know it's kind of at that's the, there's kind of a corner right there coming from downtown and people just don't, don't, don't yield don't stop. I'm really, I'm really surprised. You're talking about the one. So there is one in that area that has the blinking lights you're talking about. I'm not talking about that one. There is a new one south of that. Okay, right on the end of Kendrick Park, the very end of. Yeah, between and like where the metal cow is. No, it's on the other side of the street across. It's where the new development is I don't know what side of the street east. That's the east side of the street side. Yeah. And it's, and it's, and it's by the newest development, which is the north development. The one that's not open yet. Not Aya. Yes, correct. The one that's not open yet. And the sidewalk, which had been awkwardly striped for is even more or awkwardly striped and in its new. It's a brand new. The curb cuts have been made. It's, it's, it does not make any sense. Like that, that crosswalk, except for the new people who are going to be coming out of the newest development. It makes no sense for anyone coming downtown. And then going over to Kendrick Park, it makes no sense and nobody will use it. That's my, that's my real concern. Nobody use it and I've seen people not using it and instead using the more convenient cross. Those kinds of details are the things for sure. We should be consulted on, because we can make sense about it. Like, I don't know who approved that. That is this. I'm, I'm so offended. I mean, I have been asked about so many other developments in town, and simply the crosswalks, the accessibility to the street. And the sidewalks. I mean, I feel the same about some of the other projects that we were never asked for input on, including. The whole redesign of flight bulletin, you know, bulletin next to the new park and which direction it is and parking next to the bus stop and all those things. I mean, I remember at one time. I talked to a counselor and I said, well, isn't this ever going to go to attack. And, and they said, no, there's already like so many people involved with like making these decisions. But even the question about, I mean, 1 concern I've had. Ever since that project was approved, just like the idea of having the traffic on bullet would 1 way going south. You know, and talking to transportation professionals at UMass, like they've said, well, if you're going to have it 1 way, it should really be 1 way north. In their opinion, though they haven't looked at it, you know, as a detail as much as DPW, but again. I mean, there are a number of cases, like as you're, and you're just bringing up 1, we're like, nobody asked tack for input. I mean, we were asked all about the other 1, right? The 1 across from Garcia's. And yeah, that came that came from the planning department and planning department said we want tech input. So, but I have a feeling it was just the developers who said, yeah, we'll put a crosswalk here. It really, I don't know, Guilford, Guilford might have input. Guilford, did you review those plans? Those plans went through the planning department review process, which includes public works, planning and the planning board. So it was pretty much put back where the original crosswalk was. It was shifted a little bit because. It is not put back where it was at all. That's because the driveway shifted a little bit with the new buildings. It should have been put back at least where it was before it's really, it's really someone is going to get hurt there. I can, I mean, I see it whenever I walk home. So your frustration is all about because how the charge is not set up and what the commission, what this group is supposed to do. That's what you're right. That's what it's all about. Yes. Personally, I disagree with many of the things you want to get involved in, but that's not my choice. That's up to the town manager and the town council on how they want to set it up. But that's the, it's that way because that's how it was set up. Yeah, no, you're right. We have so many people involved in the just think about both in the one way direction. Oh, really? Design about that. And I think that it was really coming out of. Dave Zomek and the work that he was doing in with Guilford about the design and the options and. Out to in the consideration of the North common design and whether to include parking on a town continue to provide parking on the town common. And how we might increase spaces elsewhere so that we have less of a net loss of spaces with the elimination of that lot. In the one way was so way of being able to then get parking on both sides of boltwood after the construction is completed. And I don't know, I don't remember the direction piece as well. But if you've had all of the traffic going out the other way, I would think that you'd be considering the problem that can't really make safe left turns into Main Street at that point. But I mean, there's a no left turn. There's a no left turn sign at the end of the intersection right now. Anyway, I mean, I think, you know, part of it is just that some of the discussion, some of the decisions are complicated, right? And in that case, it was clear that part of the idea with the one way was to add on street parking since that lot was being eliminated. The reason it goes south is to cut out the cut through traffic. If you're going down boltwood now you're going to use to go to the town hall, you're not cutting through there to avoid the light, which is what is used a great deal there is people turn down spring to go around the light and then cut across. So if you are making this plaza in front of town hall that you want to have events on and close every once in a while, you don't want an errant car coming in the other direction and going through. So that's why that was turned. It is set to go south, right? Yes. Because in your example, right? You wouldn't be able to get to town hall like I, it seems, I mean, I guess we'll see, but it seems that it could increase the traffic on spring and other. On the other parallel streets, like for people who know that they don't want to end up like going all the way to South Pleasant Street, but. Well, it cuts down that people who are going down South Pleasant Street, and then avoiding Main Street. They're complicated. It is complicated and then it's moving. It does move something you may not like other people may not like someplace else and make it worse there. So. No, for sure. Yeah, I mean, what always frustrates me in that area is the difficulty coming south on. South Pleasant Street and then trying to make a left turn into Maine. The major intersection that's a virtual impossibility because the light is angled so that you can't tell where you are in the light cycle. And the phasing is kind of the phasing probably needs to be changed a little bit there. But then again, that's a bigger discussion that if you really want to change the phasing, you need to think about. Possibly doing away with the protected pedestrian crossings and have pedestrians cross with the flow of traffic and not a pedestrian because then you could add another. You take the pedestrian phase and turn it into a left turn phase. It's really. Anyway, if we're going to have a citizen, it's a good example actually. Because if you can have a committee that's really going to have the expertise in the time to make the initial investigation and recommendation. Which committee. Now it's true. Well, I guess, I mean, that would be part of the hope my hope with the transportation commission is like to bring everybody. You know, in the room together for some of that decision making to be continued. I mean, I'm sure we could have other examples as well. But okay. But thank you, Kim, for expressing that. And we maybe could talk about it more at a future meeting. Okay, so, I mean, in terms of the last item on our agenda was the next tax meeting. The next tech meeting, it sounds like if TSO. You know, it's going to be forming starting to meet back in February, maybe. We don't have anything pressing on our agenda should we just move our next meeting to February? Does that make sense to people? Yes. So, why don't we, do we want to propose it for the 8th of February, which is Thursday? So we have been meeting at 530 on Thursdays. If that ends up being a conflict with TSO, we can talk about leaving. After that, but why don't we do that for our next meeting in Guilford? Is that going to work for you? If we meet on the 8th of February? Yeah, it's fine. Sorry. Okay. Right. I'm shaking my head. Okay. Alright, so let's do that. And if TSO doesn't meet in the meantime, I will reach out to TSO and maybe speech on public comment just informally, just to start the conversation going. And I also would like to, one thing I'll work on too is some of the pieces we talked about with the bike plan. And making sure we have that list of edits. So that that can move forward eventually as well, because it would really be nice to get those in, particularly now that the plan is a few years old. And so, yeah, you know, things are already changing. Change, you know, for example, with the closing of Wildwood and the implementation of the new school. Fort River. Yeah, I feel like that has, we should update that at some point too. Definitely. I would agree. Because I feel like that Fort River site is a concern. That might go to the front of the priority prioritization. And I think that some of the town is looking at as well. Right. I mean, there's some plans with the intersection there to investigate it. In that area, bring up one last issue and then I probably have to go in a second. Anyway, but. Gilford, did you heard anything that the school building committee is talking about during when construction starts on the new school. Closing the south entrance, the current entrance to the parking lot at Fort River elementary so that people come both in and out and what is currently the north entrance in the south would become for construction. That's correct. Yeah, so it's a fairly major change with a lot of consequences. It is. And what's the timeframe for when construction would start there. April. April this year. Okay. See that's the kind of thing our committee could really dig into. Well, that is soon. And so just one other item that I had just in terms of like committee comments updates. So one thing is I did reach out to the inspection department. Before the last snowfall, because now with the updates that the council made to the snow and ice bylaw, the inspection department is in charge of. Enforcement and I asked them what's the best way to report. If people do have any concerns or complaints. And they said that they got back to me and they said that there's an online form. On the town website. I actually. Until they sent me the link to it, I had no idea that that form was there. It's, it's the form that they use for any general property complaints. And then they said that they can, you can submit it there as well. There's a little lost in my mind in the depth of the website. And so I did make the suggestion that they make it easier to find and that perhaps also advertise that that is one way that people can make the complaints. So, so we'll see what happens there, but I would be interested to see, I mean, the extent to which people actually do reports knowing, you know, snow and ice concerns and so. And I am hopeful to, and that was one thing I was going to reach out to some of the, my counselors on. And other counselors I know we're interested in this to just to help advertise that that's one way that people can. What, you know, to contact the town if they do have concerns. So. So I was out of town during the last no fall, but go for did, did the, the sidewalk plow like go out and do sidewalk plowing. Yeah, they went out. I was out town too. So you covered like they covered all the roots and the standard roots and stuff. He did. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that all seemed to happen really well actually. I was, I was really pleased with all of that. I mean, my concern is always just that because people expect the town sidewalk plow to come that they don't do it themselves and the side, the town sidewalk plow doesn't always come out. So maybe nice of the town could advertise it. You know, people are still responsible to do it themselves. Particularly if it's like a more, you know, longer storm. And so the, I mean, the DPW would only do the 1 pass anyway. So. Good. Good. I'm glad. All right. I wish our snow was sticking around a little longer. I'm sad about all the rain. Okay. Well, great. So thank you all and we will see you in. Every week. All right. Thank you. Good night, everyone. Very bye. Thank you. All right. Take care. Bye.