 Namaskaram, both of you, blue and red. Thank you. Namaskaram, and you guys are looking like a dangerous election campaign, red and blue. Blue and red, rather. You shouldn't be together this time, at least for another next twenty days. That's why we're out in the desert. Stay away from the masses. Please stop. So thank you, thank you, thank you so much. I want to start off by asking you a question. After reading, in engineering, a guy, a yogi's guide to joy, you mentioned that... Has it worked? Are you a little more joyful? For sure. For sure. It's dramatically changed my life. Like, the morning practice and just cultivating that morning practice in the morning has exponentially elevated my frequency. Therefore, everything that I have touched from that place has felt like it's been like the Midas touch. And it is cultivated over a period of time and devotion and... I don't know, Midas did only magic. This is mysticism, this is real. This is not stage managed. See, in the open desert also it works. Do you believe that magic is not real? When you use the word magic, usually it's on stage set up. But life is a different kind of magic. It's mystical. So this doesn't need a stage. The very cosmos is a stage that's happening in various ways. So in the book you mentioned that the word spirituality or spiritualism has been corrupted. I'm curious from your perspective, what is true spirituality? Well, let me give a very technical kind of answer to this because if you say anything more poetic, people will distort it again. So this is one reason why though it is natural for me to express myself in poetry in beautiful ways, which I did at one time, but when I saw that if I want to reach the world in a big way, I have to make it very technical, take off all the aesthetic, take off all the beauty, which I still do in closed programs and in closed events. But the larger world we presented this as inner engineering because you can't distort engineering. It either works or it doesn't work, making it that simple, okay? Poetry, art, beautiful. But will everybody get it? It's a big issue, okay? So having said that, a technical, absolutely technical definition of spiritual process would be this. There is a physiological process which you call as the body. There is a psychological process of thought and emotion going on. If you transcend these two, if somehow your experience of life transcends these two, that an experience which is not body-based, an experience which is not of the psychological structure, if this happens, then you are spiritual because something beyond body and mind has happened. Why is it important that something beyond body and mind should happen is because both your body and mind are accumulations that you gathered and you're mistaking it for a cosmos. What you created is not the creation, per se. So there is a creation, there is a force called creation which is not that creation happened at some time. It's happening in a tremendous way every moment of our life. But only few people are conscious of it. Rest are busy with their physiological and psychological processes. Their entire life is dedicated to manage their body and their mind. When I come to America, particularly California, I'm amazed after living here, you know, affluent lives, still the most fascinating thing for most people is food. It's... I'm sorry. Still food is the most interesting and fascinating thing and even among whatever we speak and do, we made a book called Taste Afeesha. That's the highest-selling damn book. This is the human tragedy, okay? I can understand a man who is living in the desert who's hungry, who's not eating anything other than lizard meat. That man is fascinated about food. But people who lived in affluent societies were exposed to everything they've tasted. Too many things, they shouldn't have tasted that many. Every possible animal they killed, every possible plant they cut and ate, but still they're overly fascinated about food. And next is their emotions. People think talking about love is something superior in spiritual, nothing, it's just human emotion. I'm saying, why are you struggling with something so simple that your dog is capable of? If your dog is capable of it, you're capable of it for sure, isn't it? Right now, human beings are getting inspired by the dogs. No, dog should be inspired by you because you're more evolved, I believe. Hello? So spiritual process means something beyond body and mind became a living thing in your life. It became a living experience. I'm sorry if I'm too abrasive. I'm curious actually, your perception on water fasting or fasting and taking prolonged periods of time… See, she went to food directly. Okay, fasting, not food, good. It's the opposite of food. It's time away from food and the benefits, if you believe there are any benefits from allowing ourselves to take a reset and to renegotiate our relationship with food. See, this happened in Los Angeles. A cardiac surgeon drove his… he was little fascinated with this Ford Mustang, that was his car and he was a little excited about it and one day it started coughing a little bit. So he took it to the local mechanic inside some problem, please fix it. He said, yeah, dog, come tomorrow morning, he'll be ready. The doctor, before going to work tomorrow morning, he went there but it was not ready. So he said, okay, come in the evening, he'll be ready. He came in the evening, it was not ready. He said, what's the matter? You said, morning I came. You said, evening I came, what is the issue? And the mechanic was in that kind of mood, he's sad. See, you're a heart surgeon. You also fix engines. I also fix engines. How come you have paid ten times more than me? So the doctor looked at him and said, try to fix the engine when it's running, let me see. So human life and human body needs to be fixed when it's running. Otherwise it's meaningless. All right, you're going to post-mortem. What's the point of that? We need to fix this body when it's running. If you want to fix this body when it's running, you must understand because we're talking about something related to digestive process. These are the stages of this ingestion, putting something inside. Digestion, assimilation, excretion, these are four dimensions of food and the whole process. Injestion, digestion, assimilation, excretion. Injition is happening in today's world just about any time, wherever they are sitting, standing, any time of the day or night, people just eat because there's so much food. It was not like this ever in the history of humanity. But unfortunately, fortunately there is a lot of food. Unfortunately, people don't know when to eat, when not to eat. As there are cycles in time, see we know time only by cycles. If the planet spins one like this, one spin, we say it's a day. Otherwise you wouldn't know. If the moon goes around, we say one month. If we go around the sun, then we say one year. So our idea of time is essentially cycles. Our birth and death is also question of cycles. Only because our mother's bodies were in sync with the cycles of the moon, we're even born, otherwise we wouldn't be born. So our whole physical existence is cyclical. The entire spiritual process, we could go into that if you wish, essentially is significant because it's not cyclical. Because cyclical means you're going in circles. If I say you're going in circles, what does it imply? In a loop. You're not getting anywhere. Usually if I leave you in desert where here there are some mountains, if there are no features, it's just sand, then people end up going in circles. That means you're not getting anywhere, that means you're lost. So the moment you are completely identified with your body and your psychological structure, you will start going in cycles. So in India, in the yogic culture it's very, very clear, this is called a samsara, that means cyclical life. So cyclical life as good a merry-go-round it may be. You know, if you arrange it well, it's a good merry-go-round, but you're not getting anywhere. Children can enjoy a merry-go-round. If all the adults are sitting in the merry-go-round and going around and around thinking they're travelling, oh very tragic, isn't it? So that's what happens. So the body is a cycle. These cycles are very connected with the planetary cycles, with the moon cycle, with the sun cycle, everything. Lunar cycle, solar cycles and the earth cycles are very important for the body. If one has the necessary awareness, they could observe on which day your body doesn't need food. Every other creature knows this, unfortunately human beings have forgotten because their thought process or their silly mind has superimposed every other sense they have in their system. If you observe your system, you will see on a particular day you don't feel like eating. That day you should not eat, but now you're at your friend's house, there is a party, you stuff yourself, even if your body says no, you stuff yourself. You see all the animals, even if you have a dog at home, on a certain day he refuses to eat both dogs and cats. Have you noticed this? He will go and eat some blades of grass if it's available and puke and clenches himself because he's conscious that ingestion is continuously happening, but digestion and excretion is not as efficient as ingestion. Ingestion is happening compulsively, but other parts need to work. Other dimensions of digestive process needs to work. When we say digestion, digestion happens in the whole alimentary canal, not just in the stomach. And assimilation also happens across the entire alimentary canal. Now excretion doesn't happen only through the alimentary canal, excretion needs to happen on the cellular level also. Impurities gather over a period of time and you become dense both in body and head. If you don't cleanse yourself, then it'll pile up over a period of time. We call this karma because when it piles up, it determines the way you think, feel, understand and experience life. People may not realize this, but they will think, this is how I am, this is my nature, this is not your nature, this is the way you messed yourself, all right? So this cleansing process, one important thing is to give a break for ingestion. Because other systems are largely involuntary, you can stimulate them, but they're involuntary, they're functioning. Injection is a voluntary process. Though unfortunately for most people it's become compulsive, it should be a voluntary process, that is I eat when I want to eat. When I decide I want to eat, I will eat. My hand doesn't decide when to eat. If there's anything, there's anything, you know, people are doing this all the time. I relate. I think if we leave a bunch of good chocolates around you, your hand will eat, not you. So ingestion should be a conscious process. To bring this consciousness, there are many methods, one is fasting. Simply denying yourself food and water could cause damage to the system. You must support it with the necessary practices. If you have the necessary practices, the need for food will come down. See, our energies are not coming only from the food that we eat. The sunlight, the air, the water, actually if you… in the yogic sciences we say, if you really keep your system well, sixty to seventy percent of your energy should come from these three factors, sunlight, air, water. Another forty percent should come from the food that you eat. So naturally food, amount, volume of food that you eat will compress. I must tell you about myself. When I was young, I'm a big eater. I never became big because my activity was immense. But today what I eat is actually one-tenth or less than one-tenth of what I used to eat at that time. From the age of nineteen till now, I'm still the same weight. Same weight, what I was at nineteen. Only thing is at that time all the weight was on my shoulders. Now because of this gravity continuously working on me, kind of pulled it down a little bit but I kept myself up. So fasting as a process must be done with necessary understanding. If people don't have that awareness, in India we fixed the eleventh day of the moon cycle, you must fast. If you're not able to fast, you go on something very light, it's called palhaar. That means you go on fruit diet. Because fruit is a substance which is over ninety percent water and you must eat water, not drink water. This is the yogic science. As far as possible, you eat water. You always be conscious about the food that you're eating, what is the water content. Like a South Indian meal if you eat, a cooked meal I'm talking about, if you eat, very easily sixty, seventy percent water. In fact more. In some of the foods it's much more. But now the food that you're eating here, you're eating bread which was baked a month ago probably, is that minimum? Even I know. So-called organic shops, it's at least a month or at least a week. Nobody's going and getting fresh bread and come and anyway, the way the bread is baked, it doesn't have water in it, very, very little water. So of course you're compensating that with a bucket of Coca-Cola or something like that. All right? I said a bucket, not like that. A bucket, is I thinking about a Coca-Cola? What is this big? So, but that doesn't work like that. You, if you drink any liquid along with your food, the acids that are necessary for digestive process will get diluted. Your whole digestive process gets inefficient because food when it goes in, if it contains water, it's assist. But if you put any liquid on top of it, you will see the food will remain in the stomach bag for too long. We are very concerned about this always in the yogic culture and life that we don't want food to remain in our stomach bag for more than two-and-a-half hours maximum. In two-and-a-half hours time, it doesn't matter what I've eaten, how much I've eaten, it must go into other parts. If it remains there, it makes you dull. It makes you lose your sense of perception. Your... the level of perception, the keenness of perception is lost. Which you notice, if you eat food without coke or coffee or tea or anything, you feel dull. It kind of pulls you down. Whole lot of people have developed a culture around it, after lunch they have to sleep. It's like you went to the gas station, you fueled up, then you can't start the engine because there is a gas in the tank. So that's what it means. So to ensure that digestive system is in full process because for most of the chronic ailments that people are suffering today in the world, the headquarters is in the stomach. Yes. But a lot of people are shifting to their head, but largely headquarters is in the stomach, the way... what they eat and the way they eat. So in this way they eat, one simple thing to bring discipline is, maybe one or two days in a month, you go on much lighter foods, which are very simple and easy on the body. If you can just thrive on water or just a little bit of lemon and water or little late, lightly honey-laced water, it will help. But if it's not possible for you, maybe a fruit or something, which is very, very light on the system, the idea is to give digestive process and assimilation process a break so that rest of the body begins to excrete. On the cellular level it must throw out all the impurities. If they don't do that consciously over a period of time, you know people, you just look at them how they were when they were eight, ten years of age, bouncing around, full of life. Look at how they become long faces. Everybody has become like this. At least eighty percent of the humanity, I don't even know if... if they get to laugh once a day. Now, whole lot of people are doing laughing yoga, every day laughing in the morning. This is madness. You think you must laugh. No, see, if a flower is fragrant, it happens because it blossomed, not because you sprayed some perfume on it from outside. Laughter, smile is not a philosophy or an ideology. If you're joyful, you will naturally smile. No, no, you must smile every day. This is stupid. I... when you speak about people not, you know, they're so focused on the taste of food, right? They haven't been able to taste something beyond their own mind, body, thoughts and emotion. And I look at what you're doing in the world and what Isha is doing in the world and so many people. It's because it seems like they've tasted something beyond, right? And so in the spiritual process and in the pursuit of self-realization, I'd be curious for you to explain on what is the nature of what we are trying to self-realize. And to jump on that, in the same theme, I remember driving home from doing my inner engineering course in the car. And I was driving and while I was holding the steering wheel, I was screaming out loud, I love my life! And I was so happy filled with so much joy that everything that was being taught in that course introduced me into a reality that was so far beyond anything that I had placed joy in anything external and it was very new for me. You must clarify that in your car you don't have a store of any bottles or pills or anything. You must clarify to the people because they won't believe, they won't believe that you could be just bursting with life without any chemical support from outside. We have come to such unfortunate levels that if you want to experience anything, to be healthful, chemicals, chemicals, chemicals, or a trillion dollars worth of pharmaceuticals I think are being sold every year, to grow food, chemical, chemical, chemical, to be peaceful, chemical, to sleep, chemical, to sleep, to be joyful, chemical, to know anything experiential. I know people are weaving philosophies how chemicals are the best thing you can do. Well, they want to sell something, I understand. But if a day comes, hope it doesn't, we are working to see that it doesn't. If a day comes where ninety percent of the humanity is consuming chemicals either in the form of food or prescribed medication or backstreet stuff, whatever, it doesn't matter. If ninety percent of the humanity goes on chemical consumption, we are heading there very rapidly right now. If that happens, the next generation that we produce will be less than us. That's a crime against humanity. The next generation should be at least one step ahead of us. If they are behind us, that means we have committed a serious crime against humanity. That will inevitably happen if we go with these chemicals. Now that you brought this up, see it's just this, there is no other phenomena here other than life. But unfortunately you think the madness in your mind is a phenomena. It's not a phenomena. It's a silly recycle of the same old things, all right? Now people taking drugs, the word that they use is they were experimenting. What the hell are you experimenting? People who are involved in sexuality, they're experimenting. I said, hey, even the caveman knew what to do, all right? Except Mr. Adam, everybody else knew what to do, what are you experimenting now? Something that's been on for thousands of years, if you experiment with that now, that means you must be dumb stupid. It's all been experimented, isn't it? Now experimentation means you try to enter new terrain that nobody has gone into, right? Hello? If you go into this desert, like Columbus found America. Well, fifty million people who are living here, what is there to find? Okay, for Europeans you found a new continent. That's a different matter. But you cannot discover something which is already known to lots of people. You cannot explore, say you say, I am, I explored this desert. But you go there, whole lot of people are living there. What is there for you to explore? They've all been there, all right? We are ignoring the other creatures. All right, I'll give you that much margin. But if there are human beings, obviously you are not the explorer. But explorers went to Africa and explored Africa. And they found people who they did not treat as people anyway. Why I'm saying this is, this is not to inside something. All I'm saying is, stop this rubbish. People have been living in different places. Because as our transportation systems of ships and other things improved, we made connections, all right? If you say Columbus connected Europe to America, wonderful. He discovered, how can he discover? So like this, people are experimenting things which have been happening for thousands of years. Doesn't mean a thing. If you really want to experiment, you must step into a new terrain. If you want to step into new terrain, I am telling you, even the cave man knew every damn thing you can do with your body. I include the cave woman, but that's a term, you know? Yeah. Maybe women were even civilized even then, I don't know. That's why only cave man was there. I'm giving the margin. So what is there to experiment about things that people have known forever? If you want to experiment, you have to go into a new terrain. Now you're going into space. This is exploration, all right? This is real exploration. Because nobody has been there from this part of the system, solar system at least. Maybe somewhere else there may be somebody. But right now in our experience, it's a true exploration because we have not met anybody there. Similarly, if you go into dimension which is beyond physicality and psychological space that you have, then you will see you will meet nobody. But that's a real exploration. And then you will become like you cannot be not alert for a moment because everything is new. Everything is absolutely new. And everything is absolutely new terrain every moment of your life. So that's how your sleep will go down, everything will go down. Various other things that you are playing with all fall off. Not that you gave them up, they just fall off. People think somebody has renounced something. People keep on asking me, «Sadhguru, why did you renounce your business and this and that? I didn't renounce the damn thing. So stupid it was, it just fell off. It's like a child, a five-year-old kid maybe having a little doll or something. What, you teddy bears are still there or Barbies have taken over? I don't know. Let's say a teddy bear you're playing with it. On that day if I take it away from you, oh, you would be deeply wounded. But do you know where your teddy bear actually went? Your favorite toy or doll that you could not live without at one time? Somewhere it fell off, you didn't even care because you grew up, isn't it? So if you grow up, your food, your excitement about eating this and that, I'm not saying you should not enjoy food, I do. I'm a good cook, all right? I'll come out as a good cook one day because I will present myself one day as a really good chef. We'll do that when we have the time. But this fascination about little, little things, it's not that you should not enjoy it, it is not that you should be not involved in it, but I think there is a kind of a fetish which is unhealthy, that must go. That will not go unless you find something more significant, that's what it's about. Yeah. And how do we find something more significant? See, a worm that crawls on the earth, it has its own purpose, it has its own life. But it gets eaten by a bird which has wings and feathers. It eats the worm and flies. Is it a little better machine? Let's look at this as machines. Worm is one kind of mechanism, bird is another kind of mechanism. The bird consumes the worm and then flies. Is it a mechanism with higher possibility? Hmm? Yeah. Yes. So similarly, if you want to get to a higher space, you need a little better mechanism. Now you come as a human being, what the significance of being human means is, for every other creature, nature has drawn two lines within which they must live and die. For a human being, there is no lines, there's no top line for sure. If you do not go there, you are putting lines based on your own ideas, philosophies, belief systems, you're putting lines. If you don't believe in anything, if you don't subscribe to anything, if you simply look at life, there is no lines anywhere. Where you set the line, there it is. If you don't set any line, it's a limitless process. So, because you have come with this level of evolution and there are no lines fixed in your life, because of that, you need to first thing is perk up the machine. If your life is fixed, you can only crawl for five days, sixth day the bird will eat you, no need to perk up the machine. Just survive for five days somehow and then sixth day the bird will eat you and the purpose of life for you is served in a way. Because you come without limits, now you really need to prime this machine because now if it wants to fly, now it wants to go to other dimensions, this must be kept in a very top condition. This is why inner engineering, to engineer yourself in such a way that nothing within you is an impediment. There are a thousand impediments in the world, but you are not an impediment. Your own thought, your own ideas, your own philosophies, your own conclusions, your own prejudices, your own emotions are not an impediment in your life. Never, you are never the problem, you are not the issue in your life. But for most people, they themselves are a big issue, isn't it? They don't need anybody's help to create a problem. So Guru, I'm curious what your perception of the masculine and the feminine energies on the planet, from my perspective, it seems like the masculine and the feminine is out of balance, not only through the collective but also with us as individuals. And I'm curious about your perspective of this. Yes, unfortunately the so-called modern civilizations have tried their best to obliterate the feminine. They cannot obliterate, so it's shrunk. When I say obliterate the feminine, if we have to put this into a very simplistic understanding, it's a complex process because it manifests in a million different ways. If we have to make it very simplistic, everybody wants to expand and enhance their lives. If you have to enhance your life, if you look at life from a physical perspective, you must have that. It may be an object, it may be a mountain, it may be a human being, I want that. This is enhancement. Something that's not mine, I want to make it mine. There are two ways to do this, either by conquest or by inclusion. So inclusion comes from the dimension of feminine. Conquest is very masculine. We can use this context to look at everything. There are many, many other more beautiful ways to look at it. Day after tomorrow, the Navaratri starts in India, nine nights. This is completely dedicated to the feminine. It's a big festival across the country, so much cultural events and things, even in our yoga center, nine days of celebrations. This time people are not allowed, it's all online. But celebrations, music, dance, everything is happening. This is a time whether you're a man or a woman, you do all the feminine things. Man will go out and make designs on the floor, they will sing, they will dance, they will make music, because the idea is this time is coming after the, this autumn equinox. This is the time of the feminine. So it is celebrated in a big way, nine days, there are nine different types of goddesses. Fierce ones, terrible ones, beautiful ones, compassionate ones, very strong ones, all kinds. So if you look at many goddesses in India, this is something we must… which is completely missing anywhere else in the world is, many of our goddesses are like Rakhini, Dakini, Lankini, Chandi, Chamundi, Chinnamasta, Kali, like this, if you look at them, they have fears, blood dripping out of their mouth, sand, you know? Humans, skulls hanging around their neck and all that kind of imagery. Why this is done is because a whole lot of times, right through history of humanity, when a woman gets little strong, she is always experienced like this. She is troubled, she must be beaten, she must be burnt at the stake. All this happened because she exhibited certain strength and it comes out in a certain way. So normally the term that is used in English, she is… she literally bites your head off. So those ladies, the Indian goddesses literally bite your head off, not metaphorically. But they are worshiped because the understanding is this, that what human competence is, what human intelligence is, what human genius is, need not be surrendered at the altar of good behavior. Good behavior you can train your puppy for good behavior. The important thing about the human being in this limited amount of time and energy that we have, the highest possible genius should find expression. How it finds expression we don't know, but that is more important than good behavior. This is why these goddesses are worshiped, they are not good behavior for sure. But they have a certain power, they have a certain genius, they have a certain capability. So you never surrender those things which will transform life for good behavior, which is just a pretension. There is not a license for you to behave whichever way you want. I wear a bunch of my French skulls around my neck because I bit the head off, is that okay? So acknowledging the suppression of the feminine and how the Indian culture, which I absolutely love, thank you for sharing that, has a time where it's honoring the feminine through the creativity and the intuition and the playfulness. I'm curious, in our everyday lives, the feminine runs within men and within women, this isn't just like to women, how can we support and activate the feminine within us as individuals to support the rebalance of the planet? See, feminine should not be mistaken as female. Female is a gender issue, male-female is a gender issue. Feminine masculine is the nature of the universe, the nature of creation is between two polarities of masculine and feminine. So do not identify feminine with just woman. Do not identify feminine or masculine with just human beings. It is everywhere. It is for you to recognize between these two polarities creation happens. Physicality cannot happen without polarities. Anything physical needs a polarity, light and darkness, silence and sound. Even if you take electricity which we're using right now, positive negative, otherwise there's no function, all right? So it needs to be looked at in a broader way if you just thinking of this as, okay, woman can do this, woman can do this, it's not about woman. Feminine is not about man or woman. It is about the nature of life. If you have them in equal proportions, people will live a more balanced and fruitful life. Otherwise they will live a very skewed life. Right now it's becoming like that because largely the structures of the society and the financial mechanisms and whatever else in the society which rules today's world is all created to fit a male into it which is largely masculine. Now women want to be successful. So they're acting more masculine than men themselves. They are also like this. This is not the nature of the woman to do this at somebody, all right? But it's become like this. Now she wants to do all those very terribly masculine things. Well, the true loss to womanhood happens when we lose femininity, when we lose the value of feminine in the society. Unfortunately some societies are moving in that direction. It's important to bring back that both these things are very, very valuable without it which cannot be born, we cannot be nourished, we cannot be anything here. Yeah, just switching gears just because of the limited time that we have, I after reading Mystic Smusings and hearing about your encounters with disembodied beings and you know things that sound like they're in a fairy tale, I'm very interested and curious if one you know your thoughts on extraterrestrial life and if you've been in contact with any. Oh, maybe you are one, who knows. Maybe that is a better question. Am I looking extraterrestrial? I'm a little extra on the terror, right? Well, I have a repetition of being very logically correct which is important in this world today, though it's quite silly and limiting. So I don't want to destroy that repetition on your show for myself, but if you want to explore such things, we have now just now recently created what's called an exclusive, Sadhguru, exclusive. This is to explore those dimensions which don't fit into your logic because right now most human beings are being constipated by their own logic. Logic is a wonderful thing to survive, to understand the physical nature because for logic you need two, as we just said, it needs masculine feminine, it's light darkness. Two polarities are needed for logic, otherwise there's no logic. But there are dimensions which don't belong to these polarities. Those dimensions cannot be explored in a logical way. If you're really keen on these things, then you must come, we'll put you through the works. But if I logically answer this question, that will be very cosmetic. It doesn't really get to the heart of the matter. But I'm just telling you, you are a ghost with a body, just for your information. The moment you lose your body, everybody thinks you're a ghost. All I did was, I gathered this material from the earth, took a loan from Mother Earth, I paid back my loan, so everybody sees I'm a ghost, what to do? You pay back your bank loan, people say this is a problem in United States. People are telling me, Sadguru, you have no credit, what is that? Credit score. I don't have any credit worthiness. I said, why? Said, you've never taken a loan. I said, isn't it a good thing I never taken a loan? I said, no, no, you're no good in America because you have no credit worthiness. So this is just like that. If you pay back the loan, you become a ghost. Now, I'm a ghost in the financial circuits of America because I have no credit footprint anymore. I think why we get along very well is because we have a similar desire of on the spiritual path of self-realization. And if we are ghosts with a body, we want to come to know that experientially for ourselves. And so, yeah, I humbly ask, how, how can we come to know that? Is it a matter of raising our energies to a certain level to then experience that, or what would that be? Yes, above all, see, as I said, what spirituality, the first question she asked, what spirituality means is your experience of life is beyond your physiological and psychological processes. That means your experience, your ghostliness, we can call it your spirit. We can call it your spirit, all right? We can call it your spirit, we can call it whatever you want, but there's just vocabulary. Essentially, your experience in something beyond your physical nature, that's the important thing. And anyway, this is some unsolicited advice I'm giving you. It's up to you what you do with that. You wearing rings on your thumbs is a very wrong thing to do. Metal on your thumb will bring that kind of energies to you that you cannot handle. You should not put metal on your thumbs. And so, when you say it brings energy to you, that means maximum you can only wear eight rings. Otherwise, you can go the Indian way and add another eight to the toes. There also, you must leave the big one. Hmm. This is everything that Andhra has actually told me. He's like, I learned from Sadguru and it not to wear thumb rings and I'm like, ah, it's fine, but it's hit slightly different when the man himself shows it with me. Um, all right. Well, with that being said, I'm just going to take these off real quick. And yeah, I'm making her less expensive for you. Thank you, Sadguru. During's less zero to buy. You had a very interesting question for people that are on the spiritual path that people just, you know, with their families is very difficult. So something I have witnessed within my own personal experience and simultaneously within my audience specifically through Deja Blue is a child choosing their spiritual path, which is not necessarily in alignment with the family ancestry or the morals of the family. And it creating a clash and the child essentially being ostracized from the family because the child is child means what an infant or essentially the child of the parents. So I would still be a child of my parents. However, I'm 30 years old. Oh, you didn't have to confess like that. I was thinking you're 16. How about? You're 30. So almost 30. I don't usually handle confessions. So it's all right. You fit the part, truly. So I'm just curious if you had advice or some guidance around... See, as I said earlier, spiritual process is an exploration of new terrain. Now I'm your grandfather and I tell you, you must only explore what I have explored. The man is a nonsense, all right? Hello? Yeah. You must explore what I have explored. This is like everybody experimenting with sexuality when the caveman also knew what to do. All right? Even Mr. Adam needed just a bite on the apple that is simple. But you must experiment. What is there to experiment or explore? No, everybody knows what it is. So exploration cannot be the way your grandfather did it. That's not exploration, that's a farce, all right? You just have to believe that's the only way. This has happened because very dogmatic approach to relief, I mean to religions. So it's extremely important that and it'll anyway happen. In the next 50 years time, it is important that the world moves from religion to responsibility for all the problems that we are creating on the planet. The only solution, including for the pandemic, is responsible action, isn't it? Right now, responsibility is there. No responsibility needs to come here. If this happens, all these problems are gone. And anyway, from whatever one or two thousand years old, people have been always modifying it the way they like it. Most religions say no divorce. Well, people are divorcing right, left, centre, all right. Many, many other things, whatever was said thou shall not is a full-time transaction right now on various levels. So, I'm not trying to criticize somebody or make fun of something, but I'm saying it's natural evolution of human civilization that we will move from religion to responsibility. That means we understand the only piece of creation that we can experience right now is this. And the only doorway to the creator is this. There is no other doorway anywhere. Even if it's there, you cannot experience it. I'm saying maybe there is a doorway in this little desert flower, but you cannot experience it, right? You can only experience what happens within you. So, don't try to condition and control what happens within me. What I do in the society needs some control because others are involved. What happens within me, don't ever try to control and condition this because it's nobody's concern what happens within me. When I say what happens within me, I'm not just talking about physiological and psychological stuff. I'm saying what happens within me means beyond what I have accumulated in the form of body and mind, what happens within me must be totally my... It's the only doorway I have. If I have to open anything, it has to open up in my experience. Is there some other way? There is simply no other way. So, what happens within me must be left untouched. That is the worst kind of contamination that can happen in a civilization is people are concerned about what is happening within you. They should not be. How I behave in the world, yes, there should be because it concerns everybody else. What happens within me is nobody's business. What happens in my body, maybe somebody's business, because if you do drugs, do this, that and you fall sick, we will have to take care of you. It's happening, right? Taxpayers' money is going to take care of all kinds of people, drunkards, this, that, we have to take care of them. In that sense, we are concerned about what happens within your body. What happens in your mind, if you go crazy, tomorrow we'll have to take care of you, we can't just leave you on the street. So, that is a concern. But what happens within me beyond that is nobody's concern, because that's my space, nobody has any business to enter there. Thank you very much. Thank you. So, for everybody that's listening at home, wherever they are, my question to create a takeaway from this interview, it's many... No, no, no, no, no. This is not a takeaway shop. You just digest it, assimilate it. Don't take away anything. Become. Because taking away is the worst thing. Because that is not the nature of life. I'm just reminding you, because you're gathering all this... I don't know how many rings. All right. Now I've reduced it by two at least. At the end of our lives, when we die, there is no takeaway. Let everybody understand this. There is no container service that you can gather everything and go. So this is the nature of life, that there is no takeaway. So let there be no takeaway from this also. Namaskar. Thank you. So to all of you beautiful bluebirds out there, thank you so much for tuning in and coming into this experience in the Mojave Desert with myself, Andre and Sudguru. What an honour, what a pleasure and what a privilege. So grateful that you are here today on Deja Blue Podcast and so grateful for you tuning in at home wherever you are. May you feel seen and loved and supported and blessed in this one.