 What other podcast is going to dig into these kinds of issues? I can't think of a one. If you've been carrying- There's probably, there's probably a podcast out there about garden tools and wheelbarrows have probably featured prominently on an episode or two. I'm just gonna go ahead and guess that that's the case. I'm looking for one searching wheelbarrow podcast right now. I don't know, specifically a wheelbarrow podcast. All there are financial, there's some financial podcasts like multi-family real estate investment things. Wheelbarrow profits, like wheelbarrows full of money. But see, that's another thing. It's like, why is wheelbarrows full of money even a term? I mean, I have all like, why wouldn't you say a vat of money or a box full of money or something else that could hold a lot of money? Like a wheelbarrow. It's like money would even almost like fall out of a wheelbarrow more than- Well, I think that's the point of the metaphor is that you get so much money- But it's sort of precarious. It falls off the side. You're a little bit carted around in a wheelbarrow because who cares? It's to denote the wealth of riches so much that it just spills over without concern. Whereas actual rich people cart their money around in armored cars with people with guns. So I've been told. Just as Tom's armored truck pulls up. Hold on, guys. My brinks is here. I'll be right back. What are some other inappropriate words that we can't use anymore? I can think of lots of them. I do- I was just torturing me right now. Tom's like, please, please don't because Roger will do it. Please don't tea up, Roger. Hey, I don't have a few. This one begins with tea. I don't even know what that is. I just, I didn't want to use an obvious letter so I pulled a different one. I have like, I mean, there's still people, there are ones that people still use in common conversation without thinking about it. There are some words where I'm like, oh my, how old are you? You must know this. You must know this. Because I can tell that they're not doing it to be, you know, incendiary. It's just something that I don't know. No one told them or they, yeah, were they slipped or something? The one I feel safe trotting out every so often is pollock jokes. Ah. As when I was growing up, we told pollock jokes. And I thought pollock was a synonym for moron because the jokes were like, what did the pollock do? Oh, something dumb. Ha, ha, ha. And then one day my friend who was Polish by dissent said, you know, that's kind of offensive to me because I'm Polish. And I'm like, well, why did that offend you? It's not a Polish joke. It's a pollock joke. He's like, pollock is just another word for Polish. And I said, it is? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, oh, I think I will stop telling those jokes. Yeah. And I've had those moments too where I'm like, oh my, I'm sorry. I honestly would never have done this otherwise. I feel so stupid. I think I was maybe a minute old when I was told this. And I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that. So. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So there's lots of stuff like that. And I can't think of any right now. But every once in a while, I'll think of a term that is perfectly acceptable at the moment. And I wonder, like I get my spidey sense that that one's not going to be OK for very much longer, I bet. Use it while you can. Yeah. Like cigarettes. Smoke up Johnny. Got him. Let's break for some tech news, shall we? Let's do it. I missed you guys. Great shows for the two that I was gone. Well, we missed you too. But I'm glad to have you back, but had a lot of fun in your absence. Not too much fun. Just enough. Just enough. Less fun than if you were here, but enough to still enjoy ourselves. Then we also had Scott and the Marv. Likes. One, three, one, three, still need some love and three. Yes, oh, line three. Yes, I am Roger. Do you have that at hand? I'm trying to pull up. I have it in three, two. Let me put in this. Don't count me into you. Oh, well, I wasn't sure this name had three first names. So I wasn't sure which. I'll just count Tom in and tall figure. I'll guess. Is it it? Yeah. All right. Any time now is fine. You could just paste that in it. All right. Here we go. Oh, because it's his nice. See why you you had a reaction there. All right. Here we go in three, two. Paul Allen Harris has supported independent tech news directly for five years. Be like Paul, become a DTNS member at patreon.com slash DTNS. This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, March 12, 2019 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Feline, I'm Sarah Lane. And from Warm Sunny Skies, I'm the show's producer, Roger Cheney. Thank you all for joining us. Thank you to Lamar and Sarah and Roger for doing yesterday's show in my absence in an entertaining, informative way that actually helped me. You guys rock. Tom's like, it actually helped. Really? It really does. I'm not surprised. I'm just thankful that I hope that came through. Any time, any time. We are going to talk about Tim Berners-Lee and his vision for the future of the web and saving it from itself. But let's start with a few tech things you should know. Twitter is rolling out a new prototype app called Twitter, and that spelled T-W-T-T-R. Is that familiar to you? That's what Twitter was once called back in its early days. It's an experimental testing space that Twitter says is designed to get feedback from testers on new features, such as a few that the company did demo at CES this year, such as different designs for replies so you can see them more easily in a thread, indented conversations, color-coded accounts. Twitter says only a couple of thousand of English and Japanese speakers will be invited to Twitter with Novels for now, but no one is under NDA. So we'll hear what they have to say. Jack Dorsey's famous first tweet was just setting up my Twitter. T-T-T-R. Microsoft will start sending push notifications to Windows 7 users to warn them the end of support is nigh. In fact, it's January 14th, 2020. It will start warning consumers about the cutoff date next month. Microsoft's end of support date means that Windows 7 and Office 2010 will no longer receive security updates. So they will highly encourage you to find a solution that doesn't involve continuing to use an insecure version of Windows 7. Spotify Premium has a new perk. It includes a free subscription to Hulu's ad-supported plan, which is normally $5.99 per month. Hulu subscribers who don't have Spotify Premium will need to cancel their billing through Hulu and then re-subscribe through Spotify if they wanna get the discount and then they have Spotify Premium as well. The promotion has a couple of restrictions. It isn't available on family plans and also restricts adding premium channels like Showtime or HBO to Spotify accounts. All right, let's talk a little more about some end of they are going to and now they own it. This is one of my personal bugaboos is people saying, well now that Amazon owns Eero and I'm like, hold on, they don't actually own Eero yet. Let's wait until they do. Well, today is the day. Amazon has officially acquired Mesh Wi-Fi company Eero. Amazon Senior Vice President of Devices and Services Dave Limp told the Verge that the company would not change a word of Eero's privacy policy and the plan is to quote, not change anything at Eero at all. Eero does not track user internet activity according to its policy. That's not going to change. The hands-off approach is similar to Amazon's purchase of Doorbell Company Ring which more or less still operates independently. Amazon is doing some discounts on Eero bundles today to celebrate the fact. And I would point out Amazon has acquired Audible, Comixology, Zappos, Goodreads, the list goes on and generally been very good about only integrating where it really made sense. Like you can buy an Audible audio book on Amazon and it'll show up in your Audible account but not forcing these acquisitions to become part of their main company. Yeah, I mean, it's outside of the tech news circle. I think a lot of folks are still unclear of the fact that Amazon owns all of those companies that you just mentioned. Yeah, yeah. You go to audible.com, it's just Audible. I'm looking over at my Eero router right now though and I will say that it is, I'm not a tinfoil head person. I don't think Amazon's going to suddenly start tapping my router. But here we go again. It's one more thing to think about. Well, an Amazon owned company is the cloud manager of this router and I don't pay for Eero service so less of my data goes through their cloud. Some of it is just passing through the router and it is fine for a router to have cloud services and when properly audited know that those cloud services aren't on all the time. So not every bit going through your router is going through Eero's servers. But I hope that stays true, I guess as well. Well, you mentioned, okay, well, it's just one more thing to think about. If Eero had stayed independent, does that quell your, not fears, but your mild concerns anymore? Because I would think as a smaller company, you're almost more vulnerable than you are under the Amazon umbrella. Sure, like you could end up going out of business or making some horrible deal with a third party to survive that compromises my data. Certainly Amazon is better than those situations, but gosh, wouldn't it have been great if I don't know a different company that wasn't Amazon, Facebook or Google had bought them to strengthen both those companies instead of a company that doesn't need to be strengthened more by them? Yeah, I think I have Elizabeth Warren on the brain, but I now all of the, and you bring up good points and I sort of say to myself like, and what would that company be? Who would that company be? August is owned by a traditional lockmaker. I could see you're branching out like, oh, we have a little bit of networking stuff with our locks. Let's buy a mesh Wi-Fi router company. Same reason Amazon wants it, they wanna make a part of a smart home. Disney announced Tuesday that its acquisition of most of 21st Century Fox will happen at 12.02 a.m. Eastern time, March 20th. At that time, the Fox broadcast network, Fox News cable channels and the national sports channels will be spun out as a new company called Fox Corporation on March 19th. Disney is in the midst of selling the Fox regional sports channels as part of its agreement for regulatory approval in the U.S. 21st Century Fox president, Peter Rice, will become chairman of Walt Disney Television and co-chair of Disney's media networks unit. So there we go, we can all get up to celebrate happy Marvel year vacation day. Yeah, we've been talking about this for a while, so it's quite a few deals that have officially closed in the news. Couple things to think about, obviously as of March 20th, Fox can start making Marvel movies, 21st Century Fox, the studio, which their head will stay in charge, will start being able to make Marvel movies in the Marvel Cinematic Universe without having to have any kind of special cooperation because they'll all be part of the same company. I mean, I guess they'll still have to have some special corporate cooperation, but it'll be super easy because they're part of the same company. And Disney will- Ooh, goody, more Marvel movies. I can't wait. There aren't enough of them. Uh-huh, so you're on that side of that fence. That's interesting. And Disney will have until June, because I think it's a 90-day limit to sell off these Fox regional sports networks. My guess is they will continue to operate as Fox Sports Midwest, Fox Sports wherever they are until they get sold. And it's anybody's guess who's gonna buy them. The Yes network got sold back to the Yankees. That's the only one I know of that has been settled. The Los Angeles Angels were looking to buy in Fox Sports, California. So they may get chopped up and sold to the individual sports teams. It'll be interesting to watch. Interesting too that, and you mentioned this when we were talking about the stories in the pre-show, Tom, that the head of the FX will now be the head of Disney TV, which at least in my mind are two very different properties. Yeah, 21st Century Fox president Peter Rice will become chairman of Walt Disney Television and co-chair of Disney's media networks unit. So the FX person, and more than that, but that's the part that's going with Peter Rice over to Disney as far as TV goes, will also be the chair of Disney and Disney Junior and XD and Freeform and ABC, the network. So that's it. Yeah, really runs the gamut. So anyway, March 20th, you can start saying Disney owns Fox and start like actually dreaming about your fantastic four movie that's going to be part of the MCU. Axial sources say that Amazon will no longer tell its U.S. third-party merchants that they can't offer products for a lower price on non-Amazon platform. That change comes three months after Senator Richard Blumenthal urged the Department of Justice to open an antitrust investigation into Amazon's policies based on that fact. Amazon dropped a similar requirement for merchants in Europe under regulatory pressure there in 2013. I, speaking of having Elizabeth Warren on the brain, in the wake of that, you know, break up Amazon, they do stuff like this. That was one of her examples is they do stuff like this. I feel like this is a better example of how to deal with these companies. You identify the particular issue, you bring it to regulatory attention and you see what happens. In this case, Amazon just backed away and said, you know what, we don't want to deal with regulatory scrutiny on this. We'll stop doing it. And that's good. That is a better way than saying, let's just wholesale break Amazon up. I'm not saying breaking up a company should never be a solution. It should certainly be one, but it's a very extreme solution and there may be better, more targeted solutions to try first. Well, yeah. And back to our era conversation, Amazon is big enough that another company could fly under the radar with this kind of behavior. Perhaps, I'm sure it's already happening. I don't have any examples myself, but Amazon is kind of too big to do this because there are so many third-party sellers on its platform to say, you can't undercut us anywhere else, ends up, hey, you got all sorts of problems, artificially inflating prices and what ends up happening in scenarios like this. It also, it surprises me that this is something that happened in Europe six years ago and it took this long for Amazon to get enough pressure on the US to say, all right, we won't do this here either. Well, we're the free wheel in the United States. We take longer to get around to this sort of stuff, I guess, and we tend to punish businesses less than you're. Well, and Amazon's doing plenty of other harm to third-party sellers in other ways too. Well, yeah, this won't be the last one of these issues to come up. And if anyone's wondering, well, wait a minute, why can't Amazon just say what they want to say and people can choose not to be on the Amazon platform? That's the point. That's the point with antitrust is if Amazon were a small company and said, hey, folks, you can't list your stuff here unless you give us the best price you're selling at anywhere, the individual retailers could say, well, fine, then we won't list there and Amazon would suffer and then they would change their policy potentially or maybe they'd have a great way to convince people. But when Amazon is sort of the lifeblood of your business and it's like, well, if we don't list there, we will go out of business, that's abusing market dominance to say, we're gonna dictate your prices on other platforms because you can't help but sell here. And that's the contention that a judge would look at and say whether that was true or not, but that's why you bring an antitrust case, roughly speaking. Open AI announced Monday, it's restructuring from a nonprofit company to a capped profit company. Under the new structure, profits in excess of 100 times the return from open AI will pass to an overarching nonprofit. Profits below 100 times return on investment will be given to investors. The idea is to make it possible to raise the billions it needs from investors while still retaining some element of that nonprofit company it started out as, which pledged to focus on positive human impact over financial obligation. So a bit of a tightrope that they're walking right now. The open AI nonprofit will still govern the for-profit open AI limited partnership and use any money above that 100 X return for reduction or education rather, will not reduce education. It will increase education and advocacy. It's worth noting that the 100 X cap is only for the current round. Future rounds of investment will have a smaller multiplier. Yeah, I think that's a really important thing that it's getting lost in a lot of this conversation because there is a lot to unpack here. Open AI started, by the way, Elon Musk was one of the founders of it. He's sort of backed away from it amicably and not really involved in it anymore if you still make that association. But Open AI's idea was there's a lot of companies doing this for profit. We want to be the company that pushes for ethics and pushes those other companies to have ethics by being a nonprofit. And one recent example of that was when Open AI decided not to release all of the details of an algorithm they created because they felt that it could be used irresponsibly and then they wanted to work on fixing that first but they wanted to make people aware of the issue. Great example of a company doing that. Also, Google and Facebook have been very open with a lot of their AI technology and it's not entirely down to Open AI but Open AI is one of the things that sort of encourages that behavior. So them becoming a for-profit institution even if it's under a nonprofit is a way to try to solve for the fact that Open AI isn't getting the dollars to compete with the engineers that are going to places like Google and they need that money to be able to create these resources. Now the bet is that Open AI will eventually create an algorithm that's so successful that they'll be rearing in billions of dollars because at 100X, a million dollar investment would get everything up to a billion dollars in return. So they need to be making billions and billions of dollars to actually have any money go into the nonprofit at that point. But the fact that they're going to do a limited round for that and then be like 20X, 10X, I think means they're doing this to get investors' attention, get some of them in the door, make it a fashionable thing to be an investor in Open AI again and then they can reduce that return so that more money will be going into the nonprofit earlier. Yeah, and I think if anyone listens to the story and says, well, the fear obviously is that people will be pocketing money and this whole nonprofit thing has all been a big ruse and this is where it all falls apart. All Open AI has to do to squash all of that is be super transparent about where money's going and who it's coming from and where it's being invested. And if they do that right, I don't really have a problem with this. Yeah, it could go either way. I'm not saying it's guaranteed to not have any problems. And granted, there's more chance for abuse when you have a for-profit institution like this, but putting a cap on those profits does sort of redirect the attention to like, hey, our main point is to fund the overarching nonprofit and to be ethical. Also, the board is made up of the people who it's made up of now. They have some rules in place to stop people from kind of packing that board and changing the ethical outlook. It reminds me a lot of the Mozilla Foundation, to be honest, in the way that it's constructed and in being a company that can bring in a profit but also try to be transparent and be for the public good. Mozilla, by the way, has launched an end-to-end encrypted file transfer service, Firefox Send. This was originally part of Firefox's test pilot browser and it's now just a feature on its own. Firefox account holders can share files up to 2.5 gigabytes between browsers, one gigabyte for everybody else. So if you have a Chrome browser, you've never used Firefox, you don't have an account with Firefox, you can go to Firefox Send and send a gigabyte file to anyone securely. It's also getting a bunch of other features. All users can choose when a file link expires, the number of downloads that can happen before it expires and you can even add an optional password and recipients can receive files using any browser as well. A Firefox Send Android app also in beta. So this is a way to say, look, if you don't wanna mess with creating an account at Box, if you don't trust a lot of these Send it programs out there cause you don't know what they're doing with your data, here's one that's gonna be end-to-end encrypted. Granted, you have to trust Firefox, but if you trust Firefox to send it, then you're gonna have a better experience feeling secure. Yeah, you sent me a file this morning, worked like a charm. Yeah, and I did it in Chrome. I have a Firefox account from my Firefox browser, but I didn't log into it. I just wanted to be like, let's see how the easy this is. Yeah, that kind of tripped me up too this morning cause I was like Firefox account, I don't have one of those, but I do because before I kind of switched over to Chrome and Chrome is my browser of choice these days, both on desktop and mobile, but I was Firefox user for many years and that's the account is how you can sync your bookmarks and your search history and all sorts of stuff. I do have a Firefox account. Yeah, a lot of people might not even know it. So it's worth checking out. Also 2.5 gigabytes is does come in handy, especially with video. If you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, be sure to subscribe to dailytechheadlines.com. All right, 30th anniversary of the proposal, the original proposal of the World Wide Web is today, March 12th, 1989, when Tim Berners-Lee said, like, you know, I'm taking this hypertext and some DNS stuff and I'm thinking of putting it all together, what do you think? I'm handing this in. From the web foundations page at fortheweb.webfoundation.org, this is a page that is describing something called the contract for the web that is an initiative that Tim Berners-Lee is starting to try to improve the way the web works. It says, 30 years ago, we sent letters and envelopes with stamps. Answers were hard to find. Shopping always meant leaving the house. Breaking news was delivered to our doorstep or on a TV channel. We got lost often because we didn't have Google Maps or Waze or Apple Maps. Tim Berners-Lee posted an open letter to mark the 30th anniversary of the day he submitted that proposal and he identifies the problems of the web. But I wanted to read that first phrase there to show like, the web has improved the lives of everyone who can use it immeasurably. If you think back to the way you worked in 1989, things work better because of the web, but it's not that there aren't problems. Here are the ones Tim Berners-Lee identified. Deliberate malicious use of the web by states, by criminals, by people who just wanna harass others. A flawed system design that sacrifices user value for things like clickbait to drive traffic or viral misinformation for other purposes. And the third thing he identified is unintended negative consequences of well-intentioned design. He pointed mostly at the poor quality of online discourse. So essentially saying, gosh, we created these social networks because we thought it'd be great and it turns out to make everybody angry at each other. What's that about? So he says, the way we solve malicious use by states, criminals and harassers is better designed laws. He's like, you'll never get rid of criminals. You'll never get rid of states trying to spy each other, but we can have better laws that really help reduce that behavior. Second is to redesign the web to change the incentives that lead to clickbait and viral misinformation. He says, I think we could do this. I think we can design a better web that doesn't reward people who just wanna drive up the numbers. And he says, research is what we need to understand the third. We need to find out why the way we have the web now drives people to outrage, drives people to be angry with each other, drives otherwise friendly people who might love each other in person to hate each other online. He's like, we need to look into that. And the thing that got me the most in this letter is he warned against reacting to online problems with simplistic narratives. And I think this is extremely important because all of us, myself included are guilty of saying, well, you know, we just need to do is shut that down or end that or change this. Here's what he wrote. You can't just blame one government, one social network, or the human spirit. Simplistic narratives risk exhausting our energy as we chase the symptoms of these problems instead of focusing on their root causes. To get this right, we will need to come together as a global web community. And I can't stress this enough. I agree 100% that the problem, and I say this all the time when we're talking about Facebook and we're talking about Cambridge Analytica is we need to figure out the problem and not waste our energy chasing the symptoms. Because if we don't figure out the problem, we'll spend a lot of time fixing things that won't actually fix things. Now the contract for the web, he says, must not be a list of quick fixes, but a process that signals a shift in how we understand our relationship with our online community. It must be clear enough to act as a guiding star for the way forward, but flexible enough to adapt to the rapid pace of change in technology. It's our journey from digital adolescence to a more mature, responsible, and inclusive future. Sarah, I don't know about you, but I started reading this with my head a little bit distracted, saying, yeah, yeah, I know. Things could get better, we get it. But when I paid attention to what he was saying, I started to get a tiny little glimmer of hope that if other people paid attention, and that's always the problem, that yeah, maybe we could all figure out like, oh, most of us actually want a better world online, and it is not impossible. Mr. Berners-Lee might consider a career in politics, and I only have kidding. I think, yes, I am with you on this. It's very easy to be cynical and say, it's too far gone, we can't walk it back. The web is a mess. We're all using it, we're all addicted to it, but there's nothing we can do. We created this mess, and now we're just sort of living in it. But I think that, and you're right, the fixing symptoms instead of a root problem is it's a whack-a-mole situation, right? But the thing is, with Cambridge Analytica, well, we knew what the problem was. I mean, it goes down to money and power, really. I mean, if you're really gonna drill down to like, what are the actual problems here? So who are the people that need to fix it? Well, in many cases, it's government because those are the people who can force change. In other cases, it's something like Google search, not surfacing a bunch of garbage. Everyone at Google who works at Google understand this. Probably some of them care more than others, but I feel like a lot of these problems are quite well-known. It's just a very complicated thing to dismantle at times. My very unpopular opinion that I try to be very careful about espousing because it can be misunderstood very easily is that Cambridge Analytica wasn't the problem. Cambridge Analytica, to me, is a very specific situation where the attitude of the internet was the problem at the time. At the time, you felt like, hey, data, it's free. You know, everybody's given data away and we just share it with each other. And this one professor took advantage of that and gave it to somebody for his own good. And that somebody was Cambridge Analytica and they, of course, took advantage of that professor and took the data. And where my opinion gets unpopular is, I don't know that that much damage was done. And I know people flatly disagree with me and they say, well, look at the evidence. Well, the evidence does, there's no evidence that this is what caused anything. And that's where I back off and say, instead of focusing on that one, instead of focusing on the stuff that gets the headlines, maybe we focus on what effect is causing people to be upset. What effect is causing the transmission of virality and false information and misinformation. And that's what I like about Tim Berners-Lee. He's like, let's not look at any particular case unless solving these bigger problems directs us there because that's treating the symptom. Let's actually figure out, like we know misinformation being spread as a problem. Instead of looking at particular example, let's look at a wider view of how it gets spread. And we've talked about a few of those studies on the show before. And so I think it's important to get this right and pay attention to it. And like you say, going into politics is something he recommends. He's like, we need to have people running for office who are committed to an open web and the principles that underlie it. Yeah, I also agree with him that we've got, and with you Tom, that we have to figure out, why do people act the way that they do online when we're all aware that we would act differently with our fellow humans, were they sitting next to us or enjoying a coffee or whatever it is. There is a specific way on the internet that people act and that's why we call them trolls. I mean, this is all part of life now. If anyone's on the internet, it's part of your life. And there is a lot of research being done and how does this affect brains? How does this affect kids? How does this affect everybody? And a lot of it is really negative. And I think the more data we have on that, the better. But I don't know how you change people unless you change the tools that they have. I would submit, you probably don't need to change people that most people are willing to do the better behaviors if that becomes the norm. And there are small examples of communities that have been able to do that out there. And this kind of rhetoric from Tim Berners-Lee is what you need to say like, hey, stop just focusing on the guy who gets your attention because he says 10 horrible things on Twitter and start focusing on how does this actually work and how do we encourage people to be their best selves online? That to me is the real question. Good question. The people that I believe are their best selves are the people in our subreddit who participate every day. So you know what I did there? Submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. I love you all, Inya, who else I love. People who hang out in our Facebook group, facebook.com slash groups slash Daily Tech News Show. They say hate the sin, not the sinner. We don't care that you're on Facebook or Reddit. We think you're awesome. That's why we are there. That's correct. Let's check out the mail bag. Let's. This one comes from Brad who says greetings to my most favorite of news production teams. Thank you, Brad. Brad says it's been a week and DTNS for Roku is stable and has been initially well reviewed. If you'd be willing, I'd appreciate your feedback. You can get it now at my.roku.com slash ad slash DTNS. Roku also has a channel store, channelstore.roku.com slash details slash 86190 slash DTNS. I think you could just search for it in the Roku store too and it should pop up. Very cool, Brad. Yeah, thank you, Brad, for making that and it's awesome. And of course, we do want people to try it out. This is not operated by us. It's operated by Brad. So be nice to Brad, report bugs responsibly and all of that, but we love that he did this. So thank you, Brad. Really appreciate it. Brad, you're the best. You are our star pupil and maybe not pupil. You are our star boss. All right. Our goal each month is to get one more patron than last month and you could be that patron. We're actually right now just a couple people ahead, but don't let that soften you up. 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Club, I hope you have enjoyed this program. I got, I waxed all philosophical today. I liked it. Yeah. Yeah, wax on, man. Megan Moroney asked me to come on Tech News Weekly. I'm gonna talk about the same thing later this week. So if you wanna hear more. Oh, cool. Let me hear more waxing. More wax on. More waxing. More waxing. I don't know. From Tom Sawyer, the musical? I don't know what that was. It's really weird. By the way, I could have sworn, well, let's pick a title and then. Yeah, let's do it. Did Tom Sawyer wax? I thought he just whitewashed. Yeah. That's true. Waxing was Ralph Macchio and he painted. Painting the fence would be the crossover between Tom Sawyer and Ralph Macchio. The waxing is Daniel Son and Mr. Miyake. We could just do half a birth. We'll paint the fence also, Daniel Son and Mr. Man. That was what I was trying to do. Paint up. Show me, paint up. Paint the fence. Wax on, wax on, wax on, wax on. Yeah, no, we get it, Roger. We do. We're trying to pick a title for you. I mean, even though I don't think it makes enough sense, I love Daily Tech News show with no vowels. Very good one. Yeah, yeah. Just like Twitter with no vowels. Right. It would confuse people, but it's a good one. Happy birthday, WWW. It's a nice positive spin on our conversation. I like that. I agree. Although, what's wrong with WWW? Because it's WWW. What's wrong with is WWW. Yeah. It's kind of clever, yeah. That's good. I like that one. I think the WWW should be. Yeah, I think so too. You know what's really funny? The web is a teenager. So what's wrong with WWW? Is that what we're going with? OK, let's do it. Let's do it. What's wrong with it? Everything! You know, my answer would be a mirror. Yeah. To understand what's wrong with the World Wide Web, one must look within themselves. You know what's wrong with the web? Everyone look in a mirror. Except for me, because. Yeah. Everybody's at fault except me. My mirror is broken. To Fender Bender. There was that college humor skit about it was it was the way that the the web works in the form of a company staff meeting. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the skit. It's online somewhere. It's really old. It's like circa 2007 or something. And it sounds familiar. So funny. Yeah, it's it's it's the human equivalent of behavior online. That's really, really annoying. Gotcha. That's funny because I made a snarky post this morning on Twitter, which really should be, you know, I'm trying to be the shepherd, you know, I'm trying to just contribute positivity. But I was thinking about this when I was talking to Eileen about something and I made the post that like those two people in any focus group you've been in that make everyone else roll their eyes. That's what being like the that's what it's like being on the internet, right? Most of us are fine with reasonable opinions and constructive dialogue. And then there's those one or two people that just kind of ruin the focus group. That sounds like that's kind of what this sketch they're talking about. Yeah, it's just a work. Yeah, it's very funny. It and it's it's old now. But it's it's I I pull it up every once in a while. You know, when we were talking about the fact that Tim Berners-Lee submitted his proposal back in 1989, which is, you know, it's long before I kind of knew what was going on. And I didn't get into this until much later, although I would say I was kind of the first wave of at least, you know, the public. But because after the passing of our hero, Luke Perry, recently, a friend of mine got his hands on the entire 921-0 collection, you know, which is like a hundred seasons. And so I was like, we're starting from the beginning here at the Lane residence. And boy, that first season is cringy. Because it's old, you know, I think it first aired in 1992, I think maybe 91. It was 90s, early 90s. And it's so funny how and you see this with any older movie or TV show, how many situations you're like, oh, yeah, I didn't have cell phones. Right. There's like, you know, there's like a stupid scene where it gets me the most when they have a whole episode built around a thing that a smartphone would have solved. Right. Totally. Where they're all like trying to meet up with each other and they they keep missing each other. And it's like, why don't they just text? Oh, right, because they don't have text messages. Totally. Yeah. There's a scene where Brenda's waiting for Dylan at the movie theater and he stands her up, you know, and so she's just like waiting there. Like she waits through the whole movie outside and just just downtrodden. And it's the whole thing, you know, and it's like, yeah, he something had happened, but there was no like he had to have physically gone to the movie theater to like let her know what happened. One where you would have solved the entire episode. Right. Yeah. And then she actually like figured out how to like call his house, but someone else answered and like didn't give him the message, you know, it was just these things where you're like, huh, that's yeah. That was a problem. That's how it was. But but but you didn't know that it wasn't a problem because that was just reality. You know, now we go like, how do you live? It wasn't a was yeah, it wasn't a blocker. Right. If you said like, OK, so we'll meet in the movie at three and then you'd be like, OK, great. And there was there were rules about like, oh, you know, if they're if it's 305, that's fine, you know, 310, then oh, yeah, maybe they'll call the theater and whatever. Right. But you didn't worry about it because you're like, this is just the way it works. Like you said, right? Yeah. And if you didn't show up, you better have a really good excuse because it's like a big deal. And now if someone said meet me at the theater at three out, but I lost my phone, you'd be like, why don't you just get a new phone? Like, we'll do this another day. Like, seriously. Right. Yeah. Not I'm not we also have like pre-programmed like running late. Yeah, yeah. In our various mobile OS to like, yeah. How people understand that we're late. What's interesting is how invaluable phones are to our lives to the point that I've one time was community to work and I stopped halfway to go back to get my phone because I forgot it on the kitchen table. Well, there was the when the two of you when we all had sandwiches that day and I accidentally left my phone in the back of Roger's car. Right. Yeah. I mean, I panicked, you know, and like because in you, Tom and Roger had left not even five minutes, you know, and I was like, where's my phone? Oh, my God, my phone's in Roger's car. Like, I can't live without this. This won't work. This won't work. I can't do this. So it was like, let me get a hold of Tom via Facebook on my computer, you know, like turn around, you know, because it's like you kind of have that moment of like, is this doable? No, not doable. Not doable. I know the temptation is to say, look how addicted we are and how horrible it is. But to me, that feels lazy. It's not. It's a tool. It's a modern tool. And, you know, it'd be like saying, like, look how lazy we are. We don't walk anywhere. We just take cars like, OK, yeah, we probably should walk more, but cars are a tool that we use and we couldn't operate modern society. So, yeah, we're addicted and probably rely on them a little more than we should. But it doesn't mean that they aren't essential. Well, that's my point, though. I don't see it as an addiction, but it is an essential part of modern life. Like, contact, like communication, be able to read someone is invaluable to most people. I mean, before you just kind of like, well, I think they can take care of themselves and they have to have a problem. Well, call me at home. I'll just need to be at home, waiting around the phone, waiting for them to call. I know that it's spawned all these new behaviors to where you text someone before you call them because you don't want to interrupt and you have that ability to send them a short, less intrusive message before making their phone ring. How rude of that. No, I call them and disrupt their dinner. Yeah, you're old. It's all about me. Now, pick up the phone. I have a friend who's a solid 10 years younger than me. So she's 100% red blooded millennial. And she is a caller. She calls me. And she calls me unannounced. And I really like her. She's my friend. So if I can't answer, I just say, can't talk right now. I'll get back to you. But it's not like when she calls, I go, ugh. It's a person that I want to talk to. But I find it so invasive at the same time. And we joke about it. I'm like a person who will be unnamed. Why do you do this to me? I'm always in the middle of something. You have very bad timing. For a while, she was calling during the show all the time. And I'm like, OK, we got a blackout from 1 to 2.30. Do not do that, because you're going to freak me out. And you're going to do it. I'll think something's wrong. Yeah, you're going to distract me at best. But it's strange. I mean, that's unusual. Because most of us say, don't do that. Just because something is a norm doesn't mean everybody does it, right? True, that's true. And she's the exception to prove the rule. Yeah, and she's like, but I like you. I want to hear your voice. And I'm like, I get that. Maybe more of us should feel that way. But we're so used to it being like, why are you calling me? I might be in the middle of something. And texting requires less of my immediate attention. I tell you, the one that I can't get used to is not acknowledging that you got the message, right? So many of my friends. That's why I keep read receipts on, Tom. Yeah, but I don't trust them. I'm one of the precious few people who do that. There's so many ways a read receipt can be sent without the person actually having understood your message. I prefer to say like, hey, I'll meet you there at three. And the person respond, great. And then I know, OK, they definitely got it, right? Read receipts, like, did they just tap on the notification by accident while they're doing something else? I don't know. That's not enough for me anymore. No, it's true. It is only it is. Yeah, it's not it's not the same as a proper response. But the reason that I and everyone I know, almost everyone I know is just like, Sarah, you're insane. Turn those off like, how can you live this way? And I'm like, I just don't have like, I don't have anything to hide from any of you. I want you to know like, maybe I'm in the middle of something. Maybe my hands are full or I'm at the grocery store or something. It's like, at least that's a little bit helpful to you that I've seen it. Maybe. It's like, it's my way of trying to help the other person that like, I've seen it and if because I didn't respond, if you don't see that I've read it, then you're kind of like, Sarah hasn't looked at this yet. Although, and granted, if you responded with an OK or a great, then the read receipt would go through. But there are times when I've seen something on my watch and there would be no read receipt because I never tapped on it or anything, but I have read it. Yeah, I, well, and, you know, if we're being totally honest because I have notifications on, I was 10 for messages, it's like, sometimes I see the message, you know, and if it's a short, if it's a long enough message, I only see a snippet, but if it's a short message, like, I've read the whole thing, they don't get the read receipt because it's a floating notification that hovers for a second and it goes away. So if I were trying to avoid somebody, I could if I wanted to. Yeah, I would never do such a thing. I just want people to say, OK, great, you know, whatever. Like, even an exclamation point would be fine. Like, but so many people, that's not the norm. They're like, oh, yeah, I saw your message and that's all I, you know, that's all that's necessary. You know, it's funny. I actually, Heather Frank and I, my co-host, Don had such a good day, another podcast that I do. We had this conversation the other day because we were, it was last week, actually, when we shot our episode 34. And she and we had decided the day before it was like, we were going to shoot at my house at 4.30. And and, you know, it was 4.30. And that morning, I was like, last Wednesday or something, that morning she wrote like, OK, see you at 4.30. And I didn't say anything back because in my mind, I'm like, yeah, like that's 4.30, that's nothing's changed. Right. Like that was the same time as what we did. And then later at about 4.20, she writes like, are you still good for 4.30? And I'm like, yeah, why wouldn't I be? We we agreed on that yesterday. And she was like, I don't just checking. You didn't say anything this morning. And I was like, it's true. I should have because I just assumed that it was just we were still on the same page. But she was like, well, I didn't get a response from you, though. And then the whole day went by and I had to like ask again to make sure like it was OK. I didn't want to just show up if you weren't ready. So I'm like, yeah, yeah, but a little affirmative would have been nice for her. Sure. Sure. By the way, did I notice right at the end of Daily Tech headlines today that it's someone's birthday? It's my mom's birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Linnell, the best mom ever. She's actually going to be visiting in a couple of weeks. Oh, very cool. Yeah. Not in fact, not this weekend, but the following weekend, I think. She didn't want to come up for St. Patty's Day, huh? You know, you can't can't have Linnell around. Yeah, it's yeah, a week from Friday. She'll be she'll be here for a nice long weekend. And yeah, I think she's excited to see me and really excited to see Otis. Yeah, I've kind of become like the back burner kid. That makes sense. It's OK. Yeah, yeah. Eileen was happy to be home with me last night. She'll be much happier tonight when Sawyer and Ray are back from the race. The more adorable kids. Yeah, you know, it's just what are you going to do? You can't compete, even if they do roll and poop, you know. Man, I mean, of all the things Otis does, he's never done that. I haven't told Eileen that and I'm not sure I will. Because she gets so grossed out. And even though I gave I gave Ray a very thorough bath just now, I'm still a little damp. I just I'm like, maybe it's just better that she never know that that even happened. Yeah, it's yeah. I mean, it's over now. Can't take it back. Can't take it back. Raise clean. Yeah. You know what else is over now? Our video. Thank you for watching and we'll catch you tomorrow. All you folks, stick around. There's more to come.