 So welcome everyone to the Arts Link Assembly. My name's Simon Darve. I'm the director of CEC Arts Link. The Arts Link Assembly is our annual gathering of artists and colleagues to look at the way artists are working to address some of the key issues that face us as an evolving human project, perhaps, and certainly facing civil society. Today is the final day of the assembly. We've had five weeks of weekly sessions. All of them are recorded now and available on the website at ccautslink.org. So if you need to revisit some of them or to revisit this one, please visit the website when you can. They'll be there in perpetuity, or at least that's what we used to think. This year, the pandemic and the changes have really affected what we think of as perpetuity these days. And that's really why we're gathered today. I've invited a range of artists and organizers, artists who are running networks or connected with independent artists, working in many ways in many parts of the world, to share with us really the impact of what has been happening in the last nine months now, the global pandemic. But of course, the fallout from that, which is the massive impact it's having on the economy, on mobility, on transport. And that's not to mention the increasing geopolitical tensions that we're seeing around the world, leading to all kinds of conflict and restrictions. So I'd like to welcome everyone today. There will be an opportunity to ask questions. At the end, you can write them in the Q&A box. If you're part of the Zoom webinar, you can add questions to the Q&A box, and we'll get to them towards the end of our discussion. But let me now welcome everyone. And I think it would be helpful for the viewers if we just go through everyone who's here, where you are, where you're working, where you're connected with, and the kind of work you're doing. Just to give us all a clear context for the things that you'll be sharing with us later. So can we start with Gulnara and Muratbek? You need to unmute your microphone. Hello, everybody. It's a very pleasure to see you all in this very interesting group. So I'm an artist and also co-founder of Artists. We are working together with my partner. We are duo as an artist and also as organizers. So actually, I finished Moscow Zurich Institute. And after that, I began work not in classical, but more in contemporary art. Because in that time, Soviet Union collapsing and a lot of turbulent issues, and I can't work like as a painter. So we are now working together with Muratbek as a video artist and also seems that all these institutions collapse in Kyrgyzstan. And we have to do something for cultural movement and make some things to fill the gap which appear in that time. So we organize there as artists and duo in 2003. And get out a lot of international exhibitions and school for contemporary art for young generation. Gulnara, can I ask, you're based in Kyrgyzstan, but you're working with many countries in Central Asia. Is that right? Yes, but we're based in Kyrgyzstan. And where are you connecting with mostly? Well, actually, in the beginning, we used to study in Moscow. And through that, we know a lot of our friends, artists from Central Asia, and all over the post-Soviet. Even not only post-Soviet, also abroad. Great. OK, we'll come back to you to look at how that's work is changing this year. But let's finish the introduction. So Susan? Hello, everyone. I'm Susan Katz. And I'm program director for CAC Arts Link and director office in St. Petersburg. And my work is mostly around exchanges in the countries of the former Soviet Union and working both with US artists to come to St. Petersburg for residencies and doing projects in St. Petersburg, focusing mostly on social-engaged art and public art. And about four years ago, we created a network of organizations in 11 countries of the former Soviet Union that focuses on social-engaged art and public art practices. And Marat back in Golnara are members of this network that's called the Art Prospect Network. Thank you. Great, thank you. Jenny? Let me see, OK. Hello, my name. Thank you very much for Simon and everybody for being part of this amazing discussion. Thank you. My name is Jenny Marquetteau. I am an artist. I'm a researcher. And also at the moment, I'm a professor at the new school for social research. And also I was born in Athens, Greece. I'm based in New York. However, I spend a lot of time in Athens and in Greece doing projects. I would say that my work is socially engaged, is also about creating strategies and how to imagine new structures of meaning, where art creates places and events, where people are embodied, being together, and thinking about what realities need to practice and to share and take time and the freedom to imagine. And I do that by organizing workshops. I produce public actions, radio broadcast, archives, and exhibitions. And I'm very much interested in pedagogical models through the framework of contemporary art recently. Because as I said, I spend a lot of time in Athens and I realize the needs that are there, especially in relationship to youth. I have been able to start two initiatives, which are very connected with pedagogical models. And they are embedded in the educational system. And in which I have created another, I would say, another model of pedagogy, which comes in totally, it's fully different and diverse from the frozen education that my country is providing to young people. I just want to say that because of the economic crisis and now because of COVID and our new government, art is not anymore taught in schools. They thought that art is unnecessary. So the young people, they have no any connection and any means to create, to imagine, and even to create something using their imagination in hand. So I have been doing a lot of this kind of work that I can operate here. Thank you. Yeah, we'll come back to that for sure. Nova. Finding the mute button. I'm Nova Benway. It's nice to see you again, Simon. I feel like we've been meeting a lot this way recently. Meeting like this. But I'm the director of Triangle Arts Association in Brooklyn, New York. And we are part of the International Triangle Network, started in 1982. And we started as a two week summer intensive residency. And about 20 years ago, we transitioned to offering year round residencies for local and also many international artists for three months. Great. Do you want to give us a sense of where the network is based across the world? Yeah, I mean Triangle is primarily, in a funny way, I'm the wrong ambassador for it because it was primarily initiated as a way of connecting organizations that were not considered in the popular imagination to be part of the art centers. So there is a number of them in Africa, Asia. We're the only one in the United States. And the hub of the network is in London. But we're kind of really the only two, I think. Well, of course, there's, you know, art has become increasingly decentralized. But that was part of Triangle's original mission in the early 80s. And it was initiated by artists, as far as I understand. Yes, the sculptor Anthony Caro, British sculptor, as well as a number of others. And there have been members of the network that participated in New York and went back to their home countries and started other members of the network, Triangle network, sort of organically in that way through participation. Great. Thank you. Virginie, if you can unmute Ayas. Yes. So I'm Virginie. Hello. I'm French, but I've been living Congo for the last almost 20 years, Democratic Republic of Congo. So I'm co-running Studios Cabaco, which is an art organization founded in 2001. So it will be 20 years next year by Faustin Linecoura, who is a co-wraffer and stage director. First, it was founded in Kinshasa, because at that time, when Faustin spent a few years outside the country, when he came back, the country was at war. So he couldn't come back to his home city, which is Kitsangani. So because Kitsangani was in the rebel zone, so it settled in Kinshasa and started Studios Cabaco, which was a kind of research space, mental space, because it didn't have any space at that time, but more space, a sharing space for research, for production and creation, for performing arts. And in 2006, 2007, we decided to go back to Kitsangani, so his home city. And there, we opened up to new fields. So we went up to music, because at that time, the music scene in Kitsangani was really vivid. So we say, we have to do something a bit organically with these young people, and also to film and cinema. And also the question at that time was how to have an impact at the scale of the city. So it was really important to also imagine our action inside the city, and not only in the city center, but in the different areas of the city. And we started doing a lot of things using the city. At the stage, there is no theater in the city, but you can use a lot of space to do things. So we did a lot of things in different areas. And especially since 2013, we are a lot working on a specific district, which is the district of Lubunga. It's about, Kitsangani is a 1.2 million city, so it's not a village. Lubunga, it's about 250,000 people living there. But it's the only neighborhood which is separated from the rest of the city by the Congo River. And there are no bridges, there's a kind of monthly and socially and in many ways, isolated from the rest of the city. And we are developing a lot of things around the, it's about both of them, it's about how to take care of your community, how to take care of your local environment, doing and developing projects with people, mainly with young people and kids around cinema, but also around the environmental issues and sustainable issues like drinking water, like also deforestation. Right now, we are working a lot around forest. Great, thank you. Elena? Yes, hello everyone. Very nice to be part of this event. I'm from Moscow, Russia. And I've been working since 2001 for independent organization CERC, which primarily works in contemporary dance. It moved through different phases. At the moment, the organization is basically several studios with studio facilities and we give classes for independent, we give space for independent artists sometimes to rehearse plus these independent artists teach amateur people. And also we have kids group that take dance as a serious subject. So they come like three, four days a week to study contemporary dance. But parallelly since 2012, I've been working as a director and artistic director for the state company called Feetabeli Moscow. And for me, it's a very interesting experience to sit on both chairs in the independent scene and also in the state scene, which is very different, of course, scenes. And it's like a wall between these scenes still in Russia and in Moscow. And recently, I think the crisis in, of course, in Russia, also we have crisis, pushed a lot of people. I think this is the time of new leadership, really. I think it's really, the thing is that finally, recently, the dialogue between independent scene and politicians started, I think this kind of crisis, it's a good basis that the politicians, at the moment, they have no right to say no to the conversations. So there are several initiatives like at the moment, for example, in Moscow, it's in Moscow, but it's a virtual Congress or the first Congress of contemporary dance artists, independent artists. Dina Hussein, one of the artists who lives in France and in Russia, initiated it. And I'm part of these discussions. So there is a new network building at the moment. Another initiative is from independent theater groups, very also active. And they speak with the Ministry of Culture and with our politicians about new laws that will financially support independent artists like in France or Belgium. So hopefully next year, maybe the new law will be that if you are independent artist and if you work not in the black market, if you pay taxes and if you really show the papers that you are practitioner, art practitioner, that at the end of the financial year, you can get a kind of a subsidy, which is equal to the minimum salary for 12 months. So I calculated it's about $4,000 will be, but I mean, at least it's a good start. So yes, so I am navigating between state and independent scene. And of course I'm very, at the moment, I'm very busy with the theater because it's a big company, but I still engaged a lot in independent scene and in different initiatives. So this is what I do now. Elena, thank you. Now it would be good to talk about those structural changes later. So let's finish the introductions. Selma. Hello, hi everyone. So, yes, I'm an artist and activist based in Zagreb, which is the capital of today's creation. Yeah, just shortly I would introduce myself tonight as a person that participates in local and transnational solidarity initiatives related to the ongoing feminist, antifascist migrant and worker struggles. And currently those initiatives are transbalkan solidarity. And for Brett, cultural workers raising up for wages, which both in a way started simultaneously in relation to the pandemic. That's it for now. So the other person who is going to join us is Nora Murad, who's based in Damascus in Syria. She's having major problems with the electricity supply. There's been lots of cuts in Damascus this week. So in lieu of being with us, she sent me overnight a short video, which is responding more to my questions than introducing herself. But I thought if we see this four-minute video from Nora, it will give us a sense of her perspective on many of the issues we're about to discuss. So, Tia, I don't know if we can play the video. I know the sound is a bit quiet. Of course. But Tia can share the screen and we can see Nora Murad. Hello, everyone. Thank you, Simon, for inviting me to be with all of you today. I'm Nora Murad. I'm an actress, choreographer, the artistic director of Lesh Troupe, a physical theater company. I live and work in Damascus. I believe that Simon is posing very hard but necessary questions. It seems we are stuck with the virtual world. And I use the word stuck because technology is absolutely useful for exchanging information and ideas, for speeding transactions, for resourcing and finding people, but it is terrible for real human interaction. I believe that nothing will replace the life-human contact we need to create and to present our work. And I don't think that replacement solutions are the best strategy here. We need to look to the root of the issue and to create strategy based on fundamental questions about artistic forms we can create according to the changes in the reality we use to deal with in our everyday life and in our work, questions about our relation with the audience who are losing their faith in words like hope or concepts like free will and choice. The most important step is to accept the change and to stop resisting it because the essential matter in change is that things don't get back as it used to be. So solidarity, support and patience is essential. Getting out of rushing solutions and taking a pause to be more and more aware of what we are proposing for the present that will affect the future of our career and of our role in our societies. And the danger of abandoning objective reality towards complete dependence on virtual reality. We need to learn more about each other's experiences, ideas and challenges to be able to create an artistic collective voice who can participate in change beyond just adaptation. Technology of course can help us to achieve this but not in the way I see online. Do you remember how much disconnected you feel when you watch a live performance on a screen and how much the performance itself loses emotional and static quality and interaction between the performers and the audience? If collaborative creations are limited by internet for now, maybe we can shift our focus on artistic research by gathering different individual in art and culture, thinkers, strategy planners and give them online platform to exchange ideas and brainstorming. We need to open up towards seeing the upcoming possibilities so it is necessary to create collaboration and conversations between artists and experts in the humanities, social science, philosophy, economics and technology. And at the same time, we need to find solutions to continue to present live performances even to a small amount of people. As artists, we need to support each other and start to think and to plan as a global group. I know that funding is not an issue to discuss here but I know too that in order to participate in real change, we need to encourage the independent funds to achieve real independence from institutions and lead by ideologies that does not place art and culture as a priority and insist to resisting change or denying it or at the very least wait until it ends so that everything gets back as it used to be. Thank you. So Nora raises many issues there that I'm sure we will come back to immediately imploring us to embrace this moment to recognize change needs to happen and that we should not resist the possibilities that that offers us. So really this is a question for all of you and we can go certainly in a different sequence but the question is to do with very much this year since February of this year how has the public health crisis, the economic crisis, the growing political crisis impacted your work and the work of the artists you work with? I'm really keen that we get a sense of how artists are being impacted and what strategies you're having to develop in order to support or sustain your work and the artists you work with. So can we start with maybe we start with Susan given the Art Prospect Festival has just happened and you've been very busy working with your network across Central Asia and focus us. Yes, thank you Simon. I would say that we've developed a number of, can you hear me okay? When everything started and CC arts and what we do is in-person exchange. So for us it was a complete shock to have it just come immediately to a halt and we started off of course like probably everyone just talking to people who are supposed to participate in our programs, our partners and developed a whole number of different ways of working with people. For the artists who were supposed to come to our residency program we decided that we didn't wanna do virtual residencies but what would be most helpful would be to have monthly meetings with them where we could introduce them to the arts community in St. Petersburg and talk about common issues. For our network partners we were very fortunate to be able to find, to receive a grant which enabled us to redistribute funds to them to help artists in their communities. And for us it was most important to be able to address the issues that our partners felt were most important in their countries because each country is going through very different problems right now. In St. Petersburg we decided that the most effective way for us to use the resources was through our festival Art Prospect which is a public art festival. And of course it doesn't seem like a very easy thing to do to make public art online. And what we decided to do was to create an online offline festival where we had an open competition for artists from all over the world but mostly United States and post-Soviet countries to submit proposals for projects that were interventions in their own personal space as a way for them to share what was going on in their lives and to give them an opportunity to engage their local community. So artists created projects on their balconies and their windows and local parks. And then we created a website and an app that was only available unfortunately in Russian where people could see these projects all over the world. And we also created different ways to communicate with the artists participating in the programs through live interviews on Instagram, through a number of seminars. I think one of the most effective ways of actually working with the artists was a party that we had on Zoom with the participants, which was very interactive and really brought the group together. What we heard from the participants was how important this festival was for them, that everyone had been feeling very isolated, that there was no way for them to share their work. And this really provided a unique way for them to share their work both with their local community and talk to their neighbors from a safe distance but also then to talk to artists in other countries who were doing similar things. And for me, this was really one of the most effective ways that we've been able to work online. And it's also something that I think we wanna do in the future because now we see that we can work with people all over the world in a new way and really bring people together virtually and at the same time in person. Of course, we're very much looking forward to returning to in-person meeting, but we also now are starting to see the value of these online communications. And a couple of questions that I'm just gonna put out there for everyone. Things that we've been struggling with is that when you're trying to do something like a public art festival, how do you reach out to new audiences through social media? And that has been a real challenge for us. And we also feel that we do not have the skills to create new audiences and promote ourselves well enough on social media. So I'd be really curious to hear what ideas people might have to improve that. Thank you. Great, thank you. Virginie, welcome back. I'm wondering if you would like to talk a little bit about your response to the pandemic, not just in terms of your work, but then how you started to reach out to colleagues across the African continent. Yes, I think we were when everything happened and when everything was canceled, we were first in London, then we came back to Lisbon. And we start thinking about, because first time of the month, requests from journalists, from different websites to do some intervention around what the situation was over the continent, for young artists. And each time you say, no, I don't want to answer first because I'm not right now on the continent. And second, because I just need to digest everything, I'm not in a mood to share for the moment. And then I just realized that it was kind of the easy way because for journalists or for this organization to try to know how things were happening on the continent, they were just reaching the most famous and established calligraphers. But the point is not there. Of course, the point is about the young artists, the next generation. First, because it's not, first time, of course, it's important in the landscape, but it's not him we will make the future of dance. It says this young artists that are now in between 20 and 30s, most of them, I'm not sure they will survive or go through this. So if they give up right now what they are doing, of course, it will impact the dancing in 10 or 20 years. And I had this idea that maybe we should try to reach them and to commission them a kind of letter. I was imagining that as a letter for them to share where they were, how they were going through all of this in their different cities, in their different contexts. And so we reached about 21 artists. First time had a discussion with each of them. And then at the same time, I contacted a lot of partners, close partners, theater, organization asking if they had a bit of money. So it was just, if they had like $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 left and had a huge, very quick response. So we, in fact, over three weeks, we raised more than the double that we were expecting. We are thinking. And so we could offer to each of them a fees to design a video letter. And out of this 21 letters that are a bit like kind of auto-portrait of these artists. So it's all over the continents. There are artists from Tunisia, from Morocco, from Madagascar, from Como, from Mali, Senegal, South Africa, Congo, of course, Gabon, Mozambique, Tanzania. So it's a lot more than 18 countries. And we made out of that a film, which is called Letters from the Continents that just been released. We just had a screening this afternoon in Kinshasa, the film. So it was really well received. And yes, it was a kind of a response. So we had to be very quick, we wanted it to be very, so we started the shoot that in May, June. And we edited in July and the film was ready at the end of September. So it was kind of very short emergency response to that. And also to show our solidarity with this young generation. Because us, it's very difficult right now, but we'll go through that, we'll survive because we have networks, we've been there for quite a long time now, but for them, it's really, really difficult. All the more that the circulation, all it's almost impossible. So, yes. Simon, I think you're muted. I can't unmute. No, I've done it. Sorry, just to say, Letters, you can continue on the film, Letters from the Consent, the Virginies streaming on our website midnight on Saturday. So you have two more nights to see it. Jenny, in terms of your work and the projects that you've been doing and the organization you're connecting with in Athens, can you give us a sense of the impact this year and how people are coping? For me has been, of course, like everybody with COVID, I was in New York. And definitely we all had to reinvent the way we work, the way we communicate. But for me, what I realized with a lot of the problems that we have been talking, especially because my work is very physically based and I have to go out of the studio and work with people and meet with people and communities that became impossible. Also, another issue is the travel. So it's very difficult to travel as I used to travel back and forth from New York to Athens. And what is a pity? I was able in the last three years and with not with governmental funding or public funding, but with the support of private funding to create those two platforms and creating a collective with teachers from 18 schools that they are from underprivileged communities in Athens and especially with communities that they engage with refugee kids and refugees youth, I would say. And I was able with the support of the teachers community to embed our project, not after school. It became part of the regular program. And it was a very interesting process because it was an idea which was based on the model that the students themselves, which are very from 14 to 19 years old, they create not only their own education but they create their own syllabus and I facilitate and bring together the people that they want to facilitate their ideas and their projects. And this became a part of the regular syllabus without going through the Ministry of Education. And we did incredible projects that they have been also one of these as part of the School of Everything for Documenta in the Parliament of Body that Paul Preciado created. But also it was a very, it brought a lot of energy and a lot of activity in the schools that they don't even have a play yard. And the way they were organized with the, we were organizing assemblies like this that all schools were coming together during the weekend. And I was a great institute supported a lot of this project and we were able to give also the students and the youth the opportunity to get together, to learn how to gather together, how to exchange ideas, how to actually even to learn how to exchange ideas to protest, how to speak freely, how so the structure of the assembly was a very main characteristic of this kind of project that we have started and it still goes on. Unfortunately, I will go back to the issues of COVID. One thing that we realized, although everybody says connectivity, interactivity, we are all connected, I'm very sorry to say the technology is not accessible to everybody. And especially in schools and young people and especially communities, they don't even have internet. So you run to the issue, a big issue which is not only a Greek issue, I think is a universal issue right now that we find out that many people don't, many young people, many families cannot even connect. So it has, I have been unable to find a way that I can engage all these huge community of youth together online. But we are working remotely because as I say, it's not easy for me to go back and forth to Greece, although I can't go to Greece because I also have a Greek ID. So I am allowed to go to Greece because Americans are not allowed to go to Greece yet. We are doing a hyper, what I call hypertext e-book. So we work, it's partially, I would say, I work with part of these young people because everybody doesn't have access and we are putting together kind of an e-book. So we are creating an archive right now of what we did, what we are doing. And hopefully I can, I'm planning to go back sometime in February and I hope things are better and we can get back into our physical actions and interactions. So right now we are all in a huge uncertainty, suffering from not good connections. I think the issue of technology is a great, because I teach also, I teach new media and socially engaged art at the new school. So I must say that technology is amazing, is incredible what we can do, but it is very still, very exclusive. So this is my situation as far as this part of my work. I'm doing my work, I have my studio here in New York, I have a studio at Dumbo, I teach a new school, I do my films, I continue my practice, but it is a very lonely isolated practice right now. Yeah, as many people are facing. So RT East, Gulnar and Muratbek, how's the impact being for you? Thank you, Jenny. Thank you, Nora, for interesting explanation. And it's, I think we have very intersections with it, Jenny activities, because we also did a lot of workshops with our students in our art school for contemporary art. It was like a horizontal platform of interaction with young students and young artists. And we can say that this year, it's this our school transformed into a new platform with which united several institutions in Bishkek. And we are very happy that it's going on. And we also work with the school children in the villages. So we have this kind of experience too. So we understand Jenny, your situation. And of course, we also totally agree with Nora about that it's sometimes it's impossible to do something virtually. It's you need to meet some people and interact physically and so on. But I can say some maybe different stuff right now because of course we have a new situation when we have very limited mobility possibilities, especially international mobility possibilities. But we don't think that it was completely unpredictable or something very new for our whole society because most of the population have already used social network like Facebook or Instagram and many others and connect with each other by Skype or WhatsApp. And the only new things is now is Zoom. And unfortunately you should pay for this. And as eco-activists, we think that this situation of lockdown and mobility limitation is even much better than for planet. Of course we have less possibilities to meet in person and drink together, but it seems online party is getting popular now. And just recently we had this kind of party with international artists. It's like a joke. But this year we have very nice experience with the ArtsLink when ArtsLink gave us a possibility to support artists in Kyrgyzstan. It was something like small grants and we divided this budget among 30 artists according their applications. And the new situation of isolation made artists to slow down their activity. It gave some time for rethinking and to begin archiving or to create their own book or webpage. Artists also do some performances at home. And probably you know that during isolation a lot of, it was a lot of restriction for school children. And many artists, designers and architects who have their own children at home try to collaborate with each other. And in order to gather their children together and make some workshops and small exhibitions. And we try to also to support this kind of activities. We realized that this system of small grants from ArtsLink, for example, it's very convenient. Very artist has his or her own agenda and plans. So they are not dependent from certain territorial projects or art events from different institutions. And so this is very flexible and effective way of supporting artists. This is very short explanation what we're doing. Okay, we'll come back though because I think in a sense, what you're talking about is a kind of emergency intervention. I'm curious how you see that evolving and developing going forward. But let's finish this round of looking at current impact. Nova, could you share with us how it's impacted your residency program and the artists you're working with? Yeah, I mean, I would just echo and reiterate a lot of what has already been said. I mean, we had a group of artists who arrived in New York on March 1st, one from Hong Kong, one from Taipei, one from Delhi and one from Toronto, which is a little bit closer, but still all of them without US passports and arriving the first week of March in a sort of, well, let's see what happens, but it's unbelievable to say, but there was no sense that a lockdown was coming. So everyone sort of arrived. I mean, we all were completely blinded to this immediate possibility. And then it seemed that overnight, it was just clear that everyone had to leave. So we spent, as Susan was saying, we spent a few weeks, just coordinating people getting on flights and being able to leave, but we've spent the last months since then. We reopened actually in September. So we do have artists in the studios now, but they are all local. So we have not yet had another, obviously another international resident, which is really a huge change for us. But the months between March and September, I really agree with what many have said, what Nora said, that it was very important for us not to pretend that we could continue as usual or to try. I feel like I saw a lot of organizations really ramp up their digital content, virtual events, and suddenly residencies were doing performances and talks and all kinds of things online, which I completely understand it in some ways because people were hungry for a connection. But it seemed very important to me to allow all of us, all of our artists that we work with and ourselves as staff and members of our organization to process what was happening. And so we spent a lot of time actually outside of the public eye, meeting with artists on Zoom and occasionally in person, when we could meet outside, when the weather was nice, but just talking with people. And it's very simple to say, but I think that is the foundation of everything that we do. I also think, Jenny, it was very interesting to hear you talk about being in New York. And I'm here in the middle of Brooklyn and I'm here on Zoom with all of you and you're in all these different parts of the world. And there is a shelter for unhoused people, five minutes walk from my house, where it's been a center of a kind of controversy around education and the possibilities for in-person versus online based education in the New York City public school system. And there are many, many kids, thousands of kids who have no access. And this is something that I think in a city like New York, which is so wealthy, it's a problem all over the world, but it's a particular kind of problem here where people don't even necessarily realize that this is a problem. So we're confronting those issues even with, this is a context that even our local artists are kind of surrounded by. So yeah, I mean, I think like many, I don't have answers except that these connections, these human connections are so much more important now. And I'm sorry I'm going on, but I just want to also highlight the work that CEC is doing. I don't know if everyone knows, Simon, should I say something about like our experience with Ann Miriam Baikla who's in Estonia? Should I, or have you already sort of talked about that structure? It sounds like a bit of self promotion, but if it's relevant to the discussion, it's fine. Well, maybe I'll say it, so it's not a self promotion for you. But it's one example of, so I think she's actually on this call and Ann Miriam Baikla who's a curator and cultural producer in Estonia was intended to come in person and be with us in New York this year at this time. And of course that's not possible. And so with the support of CEC, we've been in conversation with her virtually, laying a foundation for, we all hope and believe that by this time next year she'll be able to actually come. So I think when you can make those clear connections between the things that happen online out of necessity and then the thing that we all agreed that there's no substitute for meeting in person, those things can support each other. But yeah, I just wanted to mention that as a real example and I'm sorry, Simon, I didn't mean to create an advertisement but it is, it's really been a wonderful thing for us. Great, I'm glad it's a good way forward. Elena, I know you're working both with independent artists and as well as within the kind of state system. So can you give us a sense of the impact on those two, as you said, very divided areas of practice in Moscow? Yeah, so I think to begin with that the lockdown happened in Russia later. I mean, actually not in each city the lockdown happened. Russia is very huge territory, as you know. So in Moscow it happened from the middle of March and of course we didn't expect anything like this so and we didn't take it seriously. I think in our character sometimes not to take things seriously at the beginning. So and we all were thinking that it's just one month, maximum two months and that's it, that we'll finish and we go on with a normal life. But after a couple of weeks, we started to realize that it's a middle-term, long-term situation. And if we speak, like I will divide my answer in three parts. Me as a person, as a professional working for 20 years in performing arts. For me, the lockdown was a sudden proposal from universe to sit at home and think. Because just generally to ask questions, why we do this, how we do, why we do international work, why we do not do so much national work and et cetera. So the lockdown was very interesting for me in terms of zoom out from the day to day problems and to think about general situation, you know in about future. And if we speak about state organizations in Russia, if you are a state organization, then you get subsidy from the government, from the city government or from the federal government. And most of the times it covers the minimum, at least minimum salary or the whole salary or the minimum the salary. And it's interesting that all the artists who are on that salary, it turned out it's not enough. I mean, the salary is good, of course, but sitting at home for especially artists who get used to meet each other in the studio, like be physically together, be rehearsing something or be in the process of something. So as a state organization and the funny thing that the Department of Culture of Moscow, the organization that we support us and to whom we, to which we report, they even didn't ask us to do anything extra, like they were happy that we just stopped our work and that's it. So we explore with the dancers and with our house choreographers a lot of different online things, of course, online projects. We even created an online performance that we showed couple of times really online. It was not a recording. And we came across with a problem that of course technology is a good thing, but we are not capable. Like we need to learn new technologies in deep. We cannot just, you know, in five minutes throw the new show with the new technologies. We really need to have time to get acquainted with this technology and how the audience will react to this technology. So, but if we speak about the independent scene, the result of the first half of the pandemic, everything that happened before summer and during summer, when everyone realized that it's not finishing. So suddenly the voices of the independent artists became visible. And this is I think very interesting situation because political situation in Russia doesn't allow at the moment, you know, to speak about artistic independent problems, problems of the independent artists. It's a two small problems. But at the moment, because now it's a question of survival of independent people, suddenly the voices were heard. So as I mentioned before, it's a nice initiative for there are three initiatives that I can, about which I can say that one initiative, it's called the Artists on Fire. It's a project on Facebook where it's a group, Facebook group around a bit less than 2,000 participants. And this group started independently first and then they started to approach the theater union of Russia. It's a big consortium organization to talk to the Ministry of Culture and to the federal government about this law that independent artist is also a person who pays taxes and that he can have this minimum wage when he's busy with his projects. And another initiative is that the new generation of contemporary dance independent artists raised at the moment, rise at the moment and they rethink actually now. At the moment, they have a Congress, online Congress and it's international Congress and they discuss how they can survive in the future, but also they talk about artistic issues. Can they work further without international impact or they need to continue the international work and how they will be funded in the future and et cetera. But I think the good thing is that the leadership changing and it seems that the new networks appearing, even informal, informal, sorry, in networks and also another initiative that in Moscow is at the moment, there are a lot of independent small theater groups in opera, in contemporary dance, in theater, in puppets. And suddenly there is initiative from the government, Moscow government, from the agency of creative industries. And at the moment, it's a big discussion about finding a place, a venue, which is like abandoned factory, but a factory that belongs to the city and that the government is ready, finally, to pay for these artists, for this cluster, how they called the rent expenses. So the outcome of these six months is that the independent theater groups will get the facility where they can share office, rehearsal studios and maybe the storage rooms. And you cannot imagine this discussion one year ago that was not possible. So suddenly the whole health situation lead to completely new discussions about artistic life. This is very unusual because these discussions stopped 2012, 2014, 14. So I think last five, six years, we had no hope that there will be some day discussion again about governmental support or about facility support or about new networks and et cetera. So it was the last five years for very gray years, I would say, because of course of the politics. So suddenly I have good news from our side. But I'm seeing it as the conversation is no longer, it's not really about art, it's more about how you support citizens. And that changes the nature of a conversation like that. Yeah. But let's go to Selma, I was worried you'd disappeared, but your back, that's good. Yeah, yeah, no, don't worry, I'm here. I am, thank you, I'm listening carefully and it's very interesting to hear how, yeah, we are met with different challenges around the globe. So maybe I would continue this conversation from a position of myself being a precarious cultural worker and also very honestly, with the start of the pandemic or the lockdown in March, I've, yeah, I personally felt resistance to just adopt to this new circumstances, right? I mean, we all saw that this huge amount of cultural artistic production that is being now shifted from different physical spaces to the online, different online platforms. For me, this time was really about, okay, I have to acknowledge or my community, I with my community, I need to understand what is happening and yeah, what is happening is that, I mean, the conclusion, I'm still in the process, I think we're all still in process, but that this public health crisis and the economical crisis in a way just emphasized the structural problems that we all share as communities in arts and culture, right? So we were precarious before the pandemic and we are continuing to be even more so in the time of the pandemic. So for me, the question is how do we, what is now the fight? How can we imagine this post-pandemic world, right? So for me personally, to go back to how things were before is not an option. So for me, I mean, I refuse to go back to practice as usual, like just kind of continuing to be a cultural worker and precariously build device artwork, device transnational networks or device, even social work in a sense of if we don't rethink the structural issues and if we don't seek structural change, I believe that we will be going back to their normal without the fight. So, I mean, I don't know, I believe it's going to be a big change, but I think it's going to be a big change I mean, I don't know, I believe it's similar in majority of the places, locations on this planet, but most artists and cultural workers live on the edge of poverty and this has been proven in this crisis. I mean, we could also see that at least in the reaction of creation ministry of culture or like let's say the governmental body that is kind of should be facilitating structurally what had happened in a sense, how did this kind of lockdown, not only lockdown, but also inability to work, inability to foster cultural labor, their response was again, it was again served as through a market driven cultural policies and logic, right? And yeah, for me and for a lot of the people in my community locally, but also transnationally, I think now the discussion is really, we need to collectively start thinking how to devise a discourse that is not about us adopting our art and social practices to this new circumstances, but to understand how we can demand something that we were doing, I mean, for decades. And this is what I'm hearing from a lot of people in this panel, of course, I mean, what that could be. I mean, it's for sure saying goodbye and good night forever to capitalism, right? To understand how we can start demanding unconditional universal basic income for laborers in culture and in arts, how to further devise fair pay protocols, how to see or like push even further public funding, especially where those, I mean, public funding does not exist or is in a way being shifted from the logic of the public good or the commons to the private sector and sponsorship, right? Or how we can ourselves as communities start thinking about redistribution of resources, not only locally, but also globally. And I think this is also something that is very much connected to the question of, okay, what is, I mean, mobility for us? In the, not only before in the pre-pandemic times, but also in now we see it very clearly that we were in a way made to be agents of this constructed political discourse, especially in European Union that said, through arts, through artists' mobility or like artists' traveling, right? And also in educational system through this Erasmus programs and so on, we in a way made our geographies and the regimes that we live in seem open, seem free, seem accessible. Of course, they are not that. And in that sense, I also believe that this time is asking us of us or is putting on the table the question of who do we, I mean, what are the communities except the communities, the art and cultural communities that we now feel that we can, that we are connected to? And I mean, what are the struggles that can be understood as a common struggles of different, like when you compare mobility or like artists' mobility and contemporary migration, I mean, there is this huge political hypocrisy and economical hypocrisy that I think the system made us an agent in agents of that false and I mean, completely, I mean, yeah, policy that is working against humanity as such. So for me, yeah, these are now the questions. Another one is also how we can as a global community think of transnational support going for the local struggles, right? How we can, as a transnational community, support each other on a local scale. And I believe that discussions like this are a step in that direction, to understand our global community in specific, in a local specific context, trans-culturally, of course, but also how this transnational support can be there, can be claimed, can be in the streets in the streets of the local struggles and other way around, right? How specific local struggles can be built into a transnational movement. And all of this I'm saying in the context of yeah, arts and cultural, global cultural community. So yeah, this is kind of very much in briefly how what was happening, of course, all of my artistic engagement were on hold or were kind of postponed, which I of course, which was in a way a sign of, okay, we need to rethink. I really liked this call, the transnational call of that was kind of addressing, cancel everything, pay everyone, but that didn't happen, that really didn't happen. What we saw is actually a huge pressure on art production or on cultural laborers to continue producing. So there is still this argument that what we do as art and cultural communities is worth, is worthy, meaning that it should be funded, that it should be publicly funded, that it makes sense, that it is a contribution to the society. I mean, can we imagine future without what we do? I mean, so, now, yeah, yeah, shortly, that's kind of my thoughts around, and another thing, what I thought is also interesting, what I kind of experienced is that this precarity of people, of the artists and cultural workers is not a byproduct of the system, right? We all are fundamental to make that system exist, and this is something that we have to change before going into the discussion of how do I adopt my art practice or my social practice for this kind of difficult times for everyone? Of course, technology is exclusive. A lot of people do not have access, not to internet, but to water and electricity, right? So on the other notes about technology, I mean, of course, we use it daily, not only in our art and social practices, but also in our daily communication, like which technology do we use? Like why do we use Zoom? Why don't we use some open source technologies, right? So in a way, also kind of trying to be careful about who do we support with our actions and who can support us with theirs. Great, Selma, you laid out a lot of the issues too. We have 15 minutes left, so I'm keen we're also looking at how we're moving forward. Again, I'll get to you in a second. There's clearly a lot of issues around how we connect with each other, and I think this conversation about working locally, but also having a way of connecting trans-nationally is a really important one. But yeah, let's go to Jenny first and then have a more open discussion. There are a few questions too that relate to this. So... I will be very short. I agree fully with what Selma said, because me working and living in Greece and in the US, especially in Greece, I am fully aware of the precarity of the artistic labor, which is the same also in US. Just in US, we have more resources and we have the illusion that we is possible to do more things. But one question, as I have been thinking about my responsibility and what can I offer in this situation of how can I do something as a citizen? I also find that, yes, I agree, we artists perpetuate and we accept being precarious workers, but also I have to put a lot of responsibility to the institution. And because we as artists, and I think the art has the power to bring us together and create those transnational connections and communities. But I also think it's time to put a lot of pressure on the institutions. It's not us that we have to change. It's the institutions, the foundations, the organizations that they have to change to support our work and support not certain artists or certain works or certain movements, I would say, or especially in the art world. They should be open so that the museums, they change the way they function. They create tools, they create possibilities for diverse groups and communities and artists to come together and support these works and supports this kind of, that we look for togetherness, which is not just giving us a space, but it gives us all the support to realize what we can imagine by practicing with communities, with individuals, taking in consideration senior citizens, taking in consideration youth, taking in consideration the disabled, I can go on, but the institution don't care. So to my opinion, it's not just us, the artists, but it is also, I put a lot of responsibility also into the institutions and organizations to create this kind of interdisciplinary and transnational connections. And I agree, we have to work locally and be able also to work internationally. We need both at the moment. And I think Nora touched on it too, saying that as artists, we need to think together and act together as a global group, not just rely on individual actions in individual places, but Virginie, can I come back to you? Because in your email to me, you were very clear about this paradox in the African continent between, the desire to connect and work locally, but the need to still have international and transnational support and production, but also perform, that's how the economy works. And you'd need to have a completely different kind of relationship to the cultural economy if you're really gonna work locally. Yes, it is. I mean, for us, we don't have any organization or institutions, so that's only up to us and most of organizations based in Africa have been funded by artists that decided because they were not saying to build their own infrastructure. In Congo, we are kidding saying, if you buy a car, you have to build the road, but it's exactly that. So, but I think, yes, I mean, it's a big question because for example, if we take the example in Africa, because I don't want to generalize about the photographic, about contemporary dance, for example, contemporary dance has really been founded by the West, by Europe mainly over the continent but as an export product. So it was something that could be a bit created over the continent with some residencies but then going to serious residencies in Europe and to be shown for a Western audience. Now the question is, there were almost no investments for the products, if we say that dance or art is a product to stay and to be shared with local people and that's a paradox because for example, for health or education, a lot of international organizations are paying this, all this structure and education of teachers, of researchers, but to stay. But for the artists, they are paid to tour outside. So it's a strength thing because it's very difficult to find money for projects that are only made for local audience or only for a local context. It's more easy, of course, to find money for products or for pieces that will be shown outside and that's a paradox because now the question for us is really how to tell our own stories but to share the stories with our communities and that's quite difficult. And in fact, it's a strange transition because we are relying for the moment all our projects were funded through production and touring outside, mainly in Europe. Did we lose Virginie? Virginie, you're frozen. She's gone. So Gulnar and Muradbek, you started talking about how you were able to connect with artists in your network. Have you thought about how you can sustain that? How are you gonna work to support artists but also connect them then to a broader community? As was said that this year, our former students, they launched a new Bishkek, it's a new platform connected to several institutions like our institution, Artists and Laboratories C and 705 and Studio Museum which, and they call this Bishkek School. And I think it's very interesting that during this isolation and during lockdown, local community of artists try to mobilize. They try to help each other and it's a very interesting effect because it's very hard to explain but maybe you can understand that being in isolation for many artists and precarious who work alone and have no any governmental support and have only limited support from maybe international funds, they realize that they need to do something together and it was very, I think, very good decision that all these local institution led by the way by the artists, mostly artists and architects, they try to engage and they try to make this kind of program for the next month, including some workshops and online conversation with international artists and making some intervention actions and respond to some political situation in Bishkek in Kyrgyzstan because we can explain that this year was really hard to Kyrgyzstan because first of all, it was quite challenged with the lockdown and then in October, we have elections and it was quite, it was, this election was canceled because a lot of riots and the people, they... Disagree? Yeah, it was completely disagree with the results of this election was really dirty elections and now it's new president. I mean, he's temporary president for two months now and it will be next election in January so we have a lot of deals with that. We have a lot of trials with also feminist movement in Kyrgyzstan and we have a lot of ecological issues, of course, and a lot of actions on the city pollution, air pollution and so on. So it was quite active and quite active and intensive despite of the situation that's quite intensive here. And we try to respond to this situation in different ways with coming to these actions, to participate in these actions and to support our students and to support these feminist actions against domestic violence and many other stuff. So it's in short, this kind of situation. Okay, and Nova, again, in your email, you said how are people planning for the future and we know the future still includes the pandemic because we're a long way from being post pandemic but in terms of your work and your networks, what is being put in place to imagine how we can connect more, act much more locally and perhaps operate in a way that addresses some of the climate issues around extensive travel and that kind of movement. Are these issues that Triangle is dealing with now? Sure, and I mean, I think that's a kind of in some ways an intractable issue, the question of the climate impact of travel versus the inarguable benefit of being together in person. We've also been thinking for a long time actually for several years before the pandemic about the relationship between our local residencies and our international residencies. New York is for better or worse and probably mostly for worse the kind of place that people will still want to come to. I mean, that's been an interesting thing for us and that in terms of the international partnerships that we've had, all of the artists, I mentioned before the artists who all had to sort of unceremoniously pack up very quickly and leave in March. I mean, all of them want to come back as soon as it's safe. I mean, they're thinking about safety, but they all, New York is such a kind of almost a mythological place in so many people's minds and there are, I shouldn't say it's only a myth, there are real opportunities here for artists. But we're thinking also about the artists we serve more and more who already live here and it's a city that's so expensive to live in and there's so many artists here now who have lived here for years without studios whose work is severely curtailed by the fact that they don't have space. And there's really, we've seen a lot of projects that, I mean, everyone on this call, I'm sure knows that depending on where you are situated and what kind of resources you have and what kind of space you have to work in, you can change the way that you work. So we've been thinking about that balance. I mean, coming back to the question of working with partners like CEC, it's increasingly important to me to really work together. I mean, I think this very conversation and the conversation that we were part of yesterday, which included the hosts of various partnerships that CEC has initiated and the artists who are involved in those, it's sort of formalizing and highlighting conversations that have been happening, of course, behind the scenes for a long time, but now it's sort of putting a really attenuated sort of finer point on why these partnerships are so important. And I think being able to ask, how are the artists sort of funneled through these systems so that we can build a more equitable way of serving a greater sort of more inclusive art community? I mean, I agree with everything that Selma said and many others that it's a completely structural problem. I mean, it's embedded into massive economic structures and systems and political systems. And so for us, I feel that we're very small residency. We host a handful of artists a year, but just by virtue of the work that we do, we're connected to all of these different things. So it's been very, it's given me a lot of perspective to think both about the individual relationships that we cultivate and just checking in with artists and having one-on-one conversations, but then also kind of seeing, of course we always knew it was there, but seeing these structures much more clearly. One thing that we didn't talk about is again here in New York, and I know it's happening everywhere, the relationship between COVID and the protests around for us at the forefront has been racial justice, but also things connecting to police violence and all of these sort of social issues which are so strongly connected to the health crisis. And so seeing that, seeing those connections, again, I think we always knew they were there, but having them come so clearly has had a huge effect. Right. I should say we're really more than over time already. There's a few interesting comments that I feel you should be aware of in the Q&A if you've not opened it. I don't think we need to answer them, but there's some great examples of actually, ArtsLink alums talking about their experiences, but less joins talking about isolation, giving rise to new opportunities and new forms. And there's Jan Hanvik's comments about working in an indigenous community in Mexico where it's really completely outside of a capitalist system, a system of mutual support, where there's very little money, but there's also very little COVID and there's no unemployment. So some great examples to look at. Just then to end in one word or one sentence where what do you think we need to be starting to look at to address how we move forward? Is it communication? Is it working locally? Is it connecting globally? What's your summary notion of how we should be starting to think about how we move forward? And don't all jump in at once. I can start. I think I forgot to say that for many Russian artists, it was always important and it was like a measurement of success to be abroad, to go abroad. And we thought that resources are there, the connections are there, and of course they are there. But I think now even Moscow such a huge city that it's a nice time to reacquaint with each other and reacquaint between the generations because now we have several generations of contemporary artists, of administrators, and also reacquaint the state and independent art sector. And I think if we have some time locally, I think we can propose new things globally. Like we really need this doing work with ourselves, like work in progress. So I think it's a nice time. Elena, it was supposed to be one sentence, but your small paragraph is allowed. Thank you. Anyone else before we wrap up? Jenny, you're muted. What I want to propose that I think we should be more relational because we live so much online right now, we should be more relational with our local environment, what it happens, but also as I say, the Anthropocene is very anthropocentric. So we should think about the Anthropocene and including us humans with all the species. So we should take care of our local, but also about our environment. That's what is very important. So we can work globally and together. Together for sure. Anyone else? We really need to end. We're only five minutes over, but thank you. Just to, sorry. I was just about to... Just I think the two words are very important for me. It's to take care of your local community. It's not about saving the planet, but saving what's around you. It could be your garden, could be your community, your village, whatever, but too. And then of course to share and to learn from other experience around. That's, yes. Save your micro-planets and that will help save the big... I just wanted to say one sentence. I'm very thankful for this conversation. And I believe, I know that there is a future, sustainable future for everyone in art and culture. We'll take part in building that future, so thank you. Great. Thank you. No, thank you so much. There's so much to talk about. We need to do this clearly much more regularly. Connecting trans-nationally and then placing all that action into what we're doing locally. But thank you all so much for making time for this. Thank you for being part of the Arts Link Assembly. And we look forward to developing these conversations and seeing you all soon. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.