 Coming up on DTNS, carriage disputes migrate from cable TV to streaming, Europe makes USBC the law, and big companies working to actually make 2FA easier and better for everyone. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, January 31, 2020. Studio Redwood, on top of Eric. And I'm Sarah Lane, and I'm Shannon Morse. Man, I'm drawing the top stories from Cleveland, I'm Len Peralta. And I'm the show's producer. Let me switch myself over here. Roger Chang. We are live from Sarah Lane's Studio Redwood, all three of us, Shannon, Sarah and I. I was coming up for my sister-in-law's birthday and I'm like, well, I'm in the area. I might as well just hang out. So thank you, Sarah, for hosting us. Absolutely. And we had some fun technical issues today, and that's what happens when people make a big old track up to little studio Redwood. I still blame that Baytree. The Baytree has cursed me forever more. It's definitely the Baytree. If you want to hear us explaining, and in fact, doing some live troubleshooting, you have to become a patron and get patreon.com. DTNS for Good Day Internet. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. IBM announced that Arvind Krishna will take over as the company's 10th CEO, replacing Virginia, known as Ginny Romady. The change is effective on April 6th. Jim Whitehurst, Red Hat's former CEO, will step up as IBM's president, and Romady became IBM president and CEO on January 1st, 2012. A beta build of Microsoft Edge shows a new adware blocking feature in testing on the browser. This would block things like toolbars and crypto miners. Edge already offers smart screen filter to protect against phishing and malware, and Microsoft has offered similar unwanted app blocking to enterprise customers through Microsoft Defender Advanced Threat Protection. Data from Sensor Tower Store Intelligence shows European mobile consumers spent an estimated $11.2 billion across Apple's App Store and Google Play Store during 2019, an 18.9% year-over-year increase in gross revenue from 2018. European spending accounted for 13.5% of global mobile app revenue in 2019, tolling more than $83 billion. Android Auto now has an option to silence all notifications when a user is driving. In fact, that was a real sticking point for a lot of users up until this point. The toggle is part of Android Auto's latest update. Notifications will still be persistent on an in-car display until they're dismissed, but only when this toggle is activated. The United States FCC says it will take action against an unnamed US wireless carrier over the apparent unauthorized sale of real-time location data from users. FCC Chairman Ajit Pai said that the FCC's Enforcement Bureau has concluded that one or more wireless carriers apparently violated federal law. Alright, let's talk a little bit more about those Amazon earnings. We mentioned them on Good Day Internet yesterday, but give us the details, Shannon. Alright, Amazon reported that it earns $6.47 per share on revenue of $87.4 billion, beating analysts' expectations of $86.01 billion in revenue on earnings of $0.04. Amazon Web Services revenue grew 34% on the year to $9.95 billion, but saw revenue growth slow for the sixth consecutive quarter. Subscription revenue actually increased 32% to $5.24 billion. Other revenue, which mostly consists of advertising, increased 41% to $4.78 billion and Amazon announced on its earning call that Prime members now receive free Amazon fresh deliveries. I'm very excited about this, which previously cost $14.99 a month. Amazon also said through public financial documents that its federal income tax expense for the year was more than $1 billion in addition to more than $2 billion in other types of federal taxes. Which is a bit of a pushback towards politicians and researchers claiming that Amazon does not pay any federal income tax. Yeah, and the pushback back on that is going to be, yeah, but you should be paying $3 billion, right? Right, yeah. It'll never be enough. That argument will never end. But yeah, I think they're making a point of saying, look, we do pay taxes to try to combat some of that. More important here, I think, is the fact that Amazon's margins historically have been low. Recently they saw some more profit. So having the expenses go up, but still making $6.47 a share means that Jeff Bezos was right. Give us some time to keep spending money and eventually we'll start breaking it in. And of course, AWS is still strongly in front of Azure. Azure, of course, making leaps and bounds, but AWS certainly strong, although it's starting to reach its saturation point. It's getting more competition from Google and Microsoft there. But overall, a very strong report from Amazon. We've now had strong reports from Apple, from Amazon, from a few others like Tesla. Amazon now in market cap joins the $1 trillion club right next to Apple and Microsoft. While Alphabet, at least it depends on what time you're looking at it. Alphabet seems to be kind of flirting with being out of the trillion and into the trillion. We'll get their earnings next week. It's interesting that Prime members can now receive Amazon fresh deliveries. Now that's only in select market. So it's not just because you're a Prime member, all of a sudden you're going to get groceries delivered to your door. But Amazon kind of being like, you pass that, you know, what is it now? $110 a month or annual? You get all sorts of perks because those subscription numbers, the company, they increase 32%. Subscription is what Amazon, they don't care if there are certain things that are a lost leader. As long as they have enough folks who are paying them a certain amount of money each year, it's working. Yeah, bringing in that consistent income while then for the holiday quarter, capitalizing on that to spend more money to do that one day delivery, but that causing more people to shop with them. In a quarter when retail apparently wasn't as strong as people might have hoped it to be, Amazon's quarter was fantastic. And I think one probably leads to the other. Let's talk about Microsoft and bugs, shall we? Microsoft launched a bug bounty program for its Xbox gaming platform. So this is specific to Xbox. Anybody can submit bugs on the Xbox Live network and services with payouts ranging from $500 to $20,000 based on severity, quality of the submission and impact on the Xbox gaming service. So this is a pretty interesting bug bounty program, Shannon. It's not that Microsoft's first, they've obviously had bug bounty programs for Windows and Office and other things for a long time, but going to Xbox and what do you think of the spread of payouts? It makes sense. If you look at the whole spread of payouts as a total, of course they have like remote code executions at the top and those are going to be the most advanced of the different options. And then way down at the bottom, they have spoofing and tampering, which will give you a payout of something between $1,000 to $5,000 depending on the severity. The RCEs, elevation of privilege attacks, those are the kind of things that payout quite a bit more from anywhere between $1,000 to $5,000 for elevation of privileges and then $5,000 to $15,000 for RCEs. I did want to mention too, even though they introduced this bug bounty, that doesn't mean that anybody who's interested in exploiting attack vectors on Xboxes will get payouts. You have to stick within their bug bounty. There are some restrictions. And that's something that's very common and very constant with bug bounties. So for example, with this one, if you're doing phishing or social engineering against Xbox users or if you're doing something like downloading or accessing sensitive Xbox user data, that's still outside of the scope of bug bounty. So you want to make sure that if you're interested in doing this, you're not getting into those kind of things. Yeah, and even though anybody can submit one, you have to have a clear and concise proof of concept. Yes. They're going to need to be able to reproduce the vulnerability themselves before fixing. So it's not like anybody can just kind of come up with something and expect to get paid. You're going to have to come up with something that is actually a vulnerability that hasn't been exploited before. And then Microsoft is willing to pay up to $20,000 for severe bugs. We know Google will pay up to $1.5 million. That's true. Although they didn't actually pay anybody for it. Yeah, they didn't pay anybody that at all. Let's see their stadium on the program. Oh gosh, poor stadium. For comparison, right? Because yeah, I think Microsoft has a different rate card for Windows than it does for Xbox for sure. Yeah. The European Parliament voted 582 to 40 in favor of the resolution on a common charger for mobile radio equipment. In other words, mobile phones, but also tablets and basically anything that has a mobile radio modem in it. The European Commission now has until July to adopt an actual law, an act related to the Charger Harmonization Directive from 2014 or introduce a similar legislative measure. The resolution hopes that the adoption of a common charger will cut down on e-waste because you can just keep using your cables over and over and over again and your wall warts and it warrants against fragmentation in the wireless charging space as well. The resolution specifically calls out wireless charging saying many mobile telephones already use wireless charging methods and that fragmentation in this area should be avoided, calls therefore on the commission to take measures to best ensure the interoperability of different wireless chargers with different mobile radio equipment. And that was one of my concerns is like, well, wait, if you require a cable, are you going to write it in a way where wireless charging is left out? Not only that, not only are they including wireless, but they're saying and when wireless is there, we should probably have a standard for that. Let's work against fragmentation of wireless, which actually the Qi charging seems to have kind of taken over that market. So I don't think that is too tall of an order. Apple still is against this though, because they're saying, look, if you make us change to a non lightning charger, then everybody's going to throw away their lightning cables and that's e-waste. But they did have a previous charger before lightning, so they have changed chargers before. This wasn't going to be a first. Yeah, I would like to see everybody use USB-C. I would do and it's happening more and more and in fact, even Apple is doing it with with an iPad. They're not doing it in their phones yet. But I think I think they're resistant because Apple likes to move to something when they know it's perfect for them. They don't like to be told when to do it. And I don't think they've put USB-C in the iPhone yet because they haven't quite figured out how to make it work the way they want it to work to be charitable. And I think the problem with e-waste, it's definitely an issue that we need to solve worldwide. But it's not something that's just specifically aimed at Apple, for example. This is an issue that all companies need to focus on. And there are ways that you can recycle cables that is completely recyclable. However, you have to go through a sustainable way of doing so and go to a company that will recycle those. I believe Best Buy has an e-waste option or recycling option. Yeah, here in the US, that's true. I mean, the idea that wireless charging should be included and should certainly... We're not quite ready for that yet, but it's on the way. I get why the European Parliament, and to a larger extent, the European Commission, is like, okay, let's definitely add this in because we're going to get to that point and we don't want to make wireless charging not the standard. A company like Apple is like, but we want wireless charging to be the only standard. And everybody else is going to see him very arcane with these old cables that we as Apple don't use anymore. So something like this forces Apple to be like, okay, well, we still have to have that connector in this phone that was going to be super sleek and wireless only. Now, I know that that's, again, I'm moving ahead a couple of cycles, but I think that that's what Apple's thinking through themselves. Although, we'd have to wait to see what the European Commission draws up. They could draw this up in a way that says if you have sufficient wireless charging and no cable, that's okay. They could make that okay. And I wonder if Apple would be all right with that or if it's really about the fact that they just don't want... For the devices that are going to still have a lightning cable, because not every device is going to be put out by Apple with only wireless charging, they want to continue to use lightning. They don't want to switch. And when it comes down to it, it's costly for them to do that, unless they're doing it on their own pace and at their own direction. Well, Reuters reports that according to sources, the FBI is investigating the Israeli software company NSO Group for possible attacks against US citizens, companies, as well as gathering intelligence of foreign governments. The investigation reportedly began in 2017 to look into if NSO Group obtained code from US attackers and hackers to crack into smartphones. Facebook filed a lawsuit in October against NSO Group, accusing it of exploiting a flaw in WhatsApp. Sources say that the FBI is now looking into how NSO provides technical support to customers, which could possibly be prosecuted under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act if they had knowledge of improper use. NSO says that it is not aware of an inquiry and has not been contacted by US law enforcement about such matters. NSO Group sells its products to governments and has previously said that its government customers are the only ones who could use it for attacks. This is very interesting because one would assume that the FBI would also potentially, and we don't know this, but potentially be a customer of NSO Group because that's what NSO Group says they sell to, is government agencies. Yes. And even if the FBI is not, you're right. It could be the NSA, it could be the Department of Justice, it could be the Pentagon, it could be all other parts of the branches. And we know from previous reports and things that have leaked that even if one part of the US government has access to some kind of application that allows them to exploit a vulnerability, that does not necessarily mean that another part of our US government would know about that. So if the FBI had access to something, who's to say that the NSA wanted to or would not. This is pretty interesting too in the fact that they say that government customers are the only ones who could use their exploits for attacks, because we also know that if something exists, if it did get into the wild somehow, and while this is not necessarily a part of the story, that doesn't mean that somebody else could use the same exploit for something. And if they know about that or if they know like they got breached and something got stolen or hackers gained access to their exploits, there's still that potential possibility that they could be prosecuted for something like that too. In the Facebook lawsuit from October, you mentioned Shannon. Okay. Well, if NSO Group did indeed exploit a flaw in WhatsApp, who's to say who else? Did. Exactly. Did or did not. And I think what the FBI, at least in public, is saying is we're looking to see if the NSO Group knowingly allowed its code to be used by criminals. Yes. Right? NSO Group says never. We give it to governments. Governments might give it to criminals, but that's not our problem. And so that's where I think you start to see the gray area of NSO Group saying, sure, government of another country will give you this. Don't tell us what you're using it for. Wink-wink. Wink-wink. And the FBI then go in and say, you knew that that government was going to use it to attack us and win that in a court of law. And that starts to make me think, and again, this is just speculation, wild speculation on my part, that the FBI found out that the NSO Group was selling a vulnerability that they thought they were the only customer of to someone who was using it against someone else and said, you know what? That's not cool at NSO Group. And the NSO Group says, what are you going to do? Sue us. And they did. Yeah. I mean, again, I'm creating regional scenarios. Yes. Right? These are worthy of a thrill. It's plausible, though. I also think the timing is kind of interesting in that we know from the Reuters report that the FBI was talking to Jeff Bezos about his own hack on his phone, which a lot of people are speculating may have to do with the NSO Group as well. The US executive branch, no big fan of Jeff Bezos because he owns the Washington Post. But Jeff Bezos also has most of the money in the world. Yes. When, when sometimes, and again, doesn't mean that he gets to dictate what the FBI is doing or not doing. But it sometimes leads to a little bit more speculation of what kind of influence and power might have come from his camp. And that's another scenario that we can tie this all together is even if forget personal feelings about Bezos, if they find out that, say, Saudi Arabia used code from the NSO Group to attack Jeff Bezos, that would fit the facts in what the FBI is saying they think the NSO Group did. Yeah. Even if they were working with the NSO Group previously. We don't know that that's what they're doing. But of public available facts, that is, again, something that fits the pattern. So we're thinking about. Roku announced that seven apps from Fox will stop working two days before the Super Bowl. That's Super Bowl Sunday, everybody. Fox Sports was previously working to bring 4K HDR streams of the Super Bowl to Roku's streaming sticks, pucks and TVs. Now Roku tells the Verge that its distribution agreement with Fox expired, and therefore it is now forced to remove the apps. Basically, they're out of standstill. That's what Roku says. Roku's tactics are a poorly timed negotiating ploy, fabricating a crisis with no thought for the alarm it generated among its own customers. Those are loaded words at all. No. It's definitely fired there. NFL spokesman Alex Reithmiller tells Fast Company, don't worry, NFL will speed the game through its own free Roku app, although it won't be in 4K. Certainly not as weighty as the last story, but there's a lot of similarities here of, you know, negotiations behind the scenes. Who's blaming who, but we thought that carriage disputes were the provision of cable TV, where, you know, a CBS or a Fox wants more money from the cable TV company. The cable TV company doesn't get it. And so they both blame each other about why the channel isn't available on the cable TV system anymore. That's happened time and time again over the decades. This is one of the first times I've seen this big of a dispute where what it looks like is Roku probably had, and again we're back in speculation territory, probably had a deal with Fox that said, all right, we'll cut, you know, we'll promote your app in our app store above other apps. Maybe we'll give you some free ads. You cut us in with a revenue share or you provide some programming for our free Roku channel. And when that distribution agreement was up for renewal, Fox didn't want to give Roku what it wanted this time around. So Roku said, fine, we'll cut off your app because remember they're not just removing it from the app store because the existing apps would still work. They're stopping the Fox apps, all seven Fox apps from working for any Roku customer. That's really throwing down the gauntlet at Fox. And Fox is like, we're not stopping Roku from letting our apps work. So it's their fault, not ours. That's going to disappoint a lot of customers who are current users of the applications on Roku. Yeah, for folks who have other options, it's sort of like, all right, I'll just use the Fox app somewhere else. But if everything goes through Roku and two days before the Super Bowl, you're like, what? That's, come on. No, that's the way I was going to watch the game. And I care about it. It doesn't mean everybody's going to care about it, but a lot of people do. It might be easy to blame Fox. Like, oh, they're playing hardball. And Fox is like, no, we're not. Roku's playing hardball here. The NFL's like, hello. Don't worry. We are the NFL. We don't care about 4K anyway. We want you to watch the game. 4K, sorry. Can't do that, but we will save the day. And it's important to clarify. Yes, these apps are only used by people who have a subscription. Whether it's a over-the-top subscription like YouTube TV or Hulu or it's a traditional cable subscription, that's what these Fox apps are for. But the Super Bowl is available even without that login. That's usually the way it's done. And so this is cutting down on a lot of people who are like, oh, this is how I'll watch it in 4K, even though I don't have a cable subscription at all. Now they'll have to either go to some other situation or subscribe to Hulu Live or YouTube TV or something like that. Hey, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, be sure to subscribe to DailyTechHeadlines.com. Apple's WebKit team published a proposal on GitHub to standardize the format of one-time passcode sent over SMS. Google is launching an open project to let anybody be able to build their own second-factor dongle. We have two big, near-trillion or over-trillion dollar companies making two-factor authentication easier for everyone. Let's dig into these a little bit. Apple's WebKit team published the proposal that would send a two-line SMS, one for human verification with the code and confirmation of what website sent it. The second line would then have the site URL and the code preceded by a pound sign. The goal here is to have browsers and messaging apps recognize the domain automatically from the message and extract the code to complete the second-factor login without the user needing to interact, preventing them from accidentally putting that code into a phishing website that isn't the proper website. This would make sure it goes to the right website. The proposal claims feedback from Google has been positive on this standard with Google product manager Steven Sonoff and software engineer Sam Gotu. What a great program. Sam Gotu providing feedback in development. So it looks like Apple has got Google at least partially on board for this. This may be something where you say, well, I don't want this. I want to be in control of this. But for more casual users like my mother, for instance, I would absolutely love if she didn't have to worry about being tricked into putting her second-factor code into the wrong site. Yes, there's problems with SMS. We'll get to that. Let's talk about this other project from Google. Google launched an open SK for a rust-based firmware to turn Nordic chip dongles into FIDO, UTF and FIDO 2 compliance security key. So making your own physical key with open source firmware that you didn't have to rely on anybody else for. This is great for developers. Google says Nordic dongles are affordable and support all the FIDO 2 standards like NFC and Bluetooth LE. Google does plan to expand the project to other chips as well, but they're starting with Nordic because of that. While Google advises the project to be used for testing and research purposes at the moment, Cytal Holstead, the director of product management at Nordic, hopes the project will help the industry gain mainstream adoption of security keys, but just making more products available, right? These are both great second-factor stories, right? Yes, yes, they are. You know, I have heard a little bit of an argument from the InfoSet community hearing about this first one with Apple WebKit in the fact that it still relies on SMS. But the problem is a lot of websites have not caught on to physical hardware tokens or app-based one-time passcodes for two-factor authentication. So the fact that we are getting something that can help you protect against phishing attacks or attacks that spoof websites is definitely a nice add-on to two-factor authentication over SMS. Now, it would be great if we didn't have to rely on SMS for this, but some websites again still do. So I like the fact that they are including this for folks who want that convenience of having more security but don't necessarily want to rely on having to copy and paste it into a website, et cetera, et cetera. And then you're relying on the fact that a lot of users may not necessarily check the website's address before they put in that one-time code, and they could potentially get spoofed in that sense. Now, this doesn't protect against SIM swapping either. That would still be an issue. But this does protect against the phishing aspect and the spoofing aspect of websites. On the other hand, you have the Google one with the open-source tool. I personally love this one because this is something that I would potentially use. They're completely open-sourcing this. The Nordic chip, the little physical chip, it's a little USB chip. It's 10 to 20 bucks online. I looked it up super, super inexpensive in Rust to program it. So if you know a little bit of Rust, you could probably program this yourself or just copy and paste their open-source code and compile it for your own uses. I could definitely see hackers using this for all sorts of things. If you run your own server at home, you could implement 2FA on that to log in. Your own private 2FA, yeah. You could use your own private 2FA. So this would be wonderful for folks who don't necessarily want to use a third-party vendor's FIDO2 compliant security device and they want to create their own. They could use a Nordic chip and compile their own two-factor authentication and then they're not relying on any other vendor right there. It's such an interesting platform. I'm kind of surprised it took this long to do some kind of open-source platform for FIDO2 compliant 2FA. But it's wonderful. All my hacker friends are totally going to get on this and Nordics are going to sell out everywhere. You could tell a story here which is SMS second factor is better than no second factor. For a lot of people and because you say a lot of websites only offer it, it's good to have something that prevents at least some of the weaknesses, not all of them but some of them. But what we need is more popularization of hardware dongles which means we need more people to make them to make them more ubiquitous and make them cheaper. And that's what the second project from Google does. Exactly. That's really good. I think some 2FA FIDO compliant physical tokens are still a little bit cost prohibitive to folks. And if this could be something where maybe somebody bulk orders the Nordic products and then gives those away to their friends and family, that could lower the cost of these. Put them in a Hello Kitty case so suddenly people are interested in that. We do have an open source thingiverse 3D printed case as well for this. So I could totally paint it to be Hello Kitty. Or Sailor Moon. Definitely Sailor Moon. Hello Kitty and Sailor Moon, not always on our subreddit. But very infrequently do make it up there and that's if you care about stories. Thanks everybody who participate in our subreddits. As you know you can submit stories. You can also vote on other folk stories at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. You can also join in our conversation in our Discord. It's going on 24 seven pate. You can join by linking to a Patreon account at patreon.com. What is in that old mailbag there? Oh Tom, I'm glad you asked. Justin wrote in and he had an interesting thought of how much not having good broadband internet can really bring down a system. Justin works for the state court system in IT and deals with mostly real courts that are on DSL, satellite, mobile hotspots, or maybe even nothing at all. Justin says it makes IT support a nightmare. It takes a very long time to transfer any software that they need. Remote desktop can be a lag nightmare. The other major issues is the courts that require to upload information to the DMV or send over an order of protection to the police and many other important things. A lot of my locations have to drive to the next town just to upload their information. This causes a delay to put people in danger. The US needs to push for better infrastructure and push ISPs go into rural places and get them internet. The world requires internet and the US is far behind in infrastructure. I was saying yesterday that most places in the US have sufficient bandwidth for Netflix and that probably wasn't the reason that Netflix was slowing. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a big problem with infrastructure in the places that don't have them. And I appreciate Justin writing in and sharing his experience about that because it's important to note that most is not all or even all that we need. And there is a gap there that needs to be filled for very important reasons. Yeah, absolutely. That whole idea of driving to the next town to upload something when it comes to the cops. I'm like, is that not a good system? Hey, shout out to our patrons. A very good system indeed at our master and grandmaster levels, including Phillip Les, Frederick Kuebner, and James P. Callison. All right, let's check in with Len Peralta, who has been illustrating today's show. What have you drawn for us, Len? Well, you know, you had a little bit of buggy-ness at the beginning of the show. And we also talked about the Microsoft bug bounty hunter. So I thought only apropos to draw the bug bounty hunter from Microsoft. There he is pulling out. And now if only are the audio issues were sort of like the the bugs, you could just go and squash him when needed to come in and squash that bug. I like that you have a Thor-like bounty hunter with a bug in his hand that he's ready to squash. That bug looks so sad and sorry. Well, you know what? He shouldn't have been around. That's the thing. And he's bringing in like 20 grand for this guy. So, you know, there's always a good thing. So he got it as hip there. Oh, those are a little, what you call it, controllers, right? Because it's a Xbox bug bounty. That's right. Of course. Makes sense. Yeah, if you wanted to see this, you can go right now to my Patreon. Patreon.com forward slash Len. You can always get it at my online store at LenPeraltaStore.com. And by the way, I'm open for commissions too. If anybody wants to hire me for a commission, Valentine's Day is coming up. Some other great, you know, if you have anything else, go to LenPeraltaStore.com and get that started. So. Well, normally I would just thank Shannon Morse, which I'm about to, but I also want to thank Tom Merritt because he came on up to Studio Redwood and and hung out with a plethora of audio issues. But we made it happen because we're such a great team. So it's really nice to have everybody here with me today. Well, some of us anyway. Lovely to be here. Thank you for having me. Well, of course, Roger and Leonard are in their locations, but it is, it's, it's my first guest here at Studio Redwood. Yeah, at least doing this show. So thanks to you guys for coming up. Quite a pleasure. Shannon, let folks know where they can keep up with all the rest of your work because you're very busy. Sure. Also highly recommend commissioning Len. I had him do a exclusive piece of merch for my patrons on my own channel and they absolutely loved it. So thank you, Len, for that. Snupsy.com or YouTube.com slash Shannon Morse is where you can go to see all of my updated tech reviews, my recent CES videos, and a huge announcement that I'm moving over to Colorado soon. Yeah, I bought a house, so I'm going to be doing a whole bunch of smart home tech reviews when that happens. So that's going to happen really soon. I agree. Folks, we get a weekly Threat Wire update from Shannon that we share with you, but that only goes to patrons. If you want to get that update, you got to become a patron, patreon.com slash DTNS. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. Write us with your questions, comments, all sorts of good stuff. We just love your feedback. We're also live Monday through Friday. If you can join us, please do. That's 4.30 p.m. Eastern 21. See, write up more at www.threatnewshow.com slash live. Back on Monday with the changing role of the modern IT department and Karen Forrest as our guest. Talk to you then. Frog Pants Network. Get more shows like this at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.