 Sometimes it's funny how some things that we relegated to the background just becomes very prominent in our lives. One of those things in our economy right now is the cryptocurrency. I remember those days when the cryptocurrency just came to our attention, because it's been there for some time before it crept into Nigeria and people began to trade it. The federal government was very, very uncomfortable about it. Today we're looking at how the E-Naira fits into the cryptocurrency revolution. We're talking about it. It's very, very interesting that we are even talking about it. We are being joined by Dr. Favo Sunano of Platinum World Ultima Africa. He's going to be helping us to make sense into what cryptocurrency is, the relationship between that and the E-Naira and so many other things that we need to know in the space of time that we have. Dr. Sunano, good morning and welcome to the program. Good morning. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Like I was saying in my introduction, there was a time that the federal government was really uncomfortable about cryptocurrency. Now we have the E-Naira, we are trying to find a relationship between the E-Naira and the cryptocurrency and all that. What changed? Let me start with that. Just after you tell us what really cryptocurrency is, then tell us what changed. All right. Cryptocurrency is digital currency. It is a currency that was built on a technology called blockchain technology. Blockchain technology is a distributed ledger where people can do transactions, where you can save data, where you can do all kinds of stuff as long as it doesn't allow the middle man. If you want to do a transaction from here to maybe to the United States, you want to send money to somebody who needs a middle man in the bank to be standing as the middle man or with the blockchain technology, which is the real technology that powers cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency is just one item that can be on the blockchain. Now, but it's so popular that it seems to cover the whole idea, but blockchain is bigger than cryptocurrency. It's the technology that powers it. So this technology allows transaction between two persons across borders, across the world without needing a middle man. Now, you asked the question, what changed? The first place that was a big scare. That was a big scare to many financial institutions because they felt it may suddenly become the end of modern banking. You understand? So, for example, I want to make a payment for maybe my children's school fees somewhere in the United Kingdom, for example, and I have Bitcoin. And if the person there accept Bitcoin, for example, that means I will never need the bank. I would just send Bitcoin straight to his wallet. Straight to the institution's wallet, and I don't need to have a bank. So that was a big scare for many, many countries. So they were afraid to embrace it. But in the case of Nigeria, as a matter of fact, for all I know, they actually embraced it. But, I mean, there were some practices that were not making sense. I remember in 2017, they shuttered this to the bankers of Nigeria, organized a cryptocurrency and blockchain event in Vitara Island, and were invited. I was part of the people in that school. We actually paid to attend that event. And when we got there, we asked several questions. I think then the deputy director, deputy director of the bank, I think Jimo Ibrahim was the deputy director then. I don't know if he's still there now. But so, and he said clearly that the bank's CBN is not a really against cryptocurrency of blockchain technology. That actually, as a matter of fact, they are working to make, to work in a new area. And they are just being careful in terms of sending the signal to everybody to embrace it. Because if people lose money, there's nobody to regulate it. There's no regulations. So it was the area of regulations that the CBN was really, really scared. I would say scared though, that we're not so forthright, allowing people to just go ahead and start using it. But today we have the ignorant. And I want to believe the ignorant could have probably fly if they stand on CBN, especially when it comes to the youth. You know, this currency requires people to use it. They sort of call currency dumping. Now, if, for example, you remember this of the big coins, the heavy coins, when it was introduced, it was Kumbh Bason. And so people did not accept it. So they dumped that currency. So that's exactly what happened with the in-ear. It's like cryptocurrency, but it's not really cryptocurrency. It's a central bank issue, digital currency, one of the CBDCs. So it doesn't really totally fit in as what would be regarded as cryptocurrency. Yeah, because I've been wondering, I'm a novice, not even a novice. I'm a layman that doesn't know anything about this cryptocurrency as I should know. So I'm just wondering, I was wondering why there was need for the in-ear. What value will it add to the in-ear as an entity of trade? Because if we can do transfers and we have the same value for the in-ear when we do transfers and all that, what am I needing in-ear for? What was the real reason for bringing, for floating the in-ear when we have all the cryptocurrencies that are already available and then we have internet banking? As a matter of fact, what I believe the distribution should have developed, they would have developed enough collaboration with the existing decentralized currencies. For example, for the Platinum World, for example, we have our own banking system that allows you to easily convert inside your account, easily convert your fiat, which is the in-ear, for example, or the dollar. You can easily convert it into digital currencies like what? USDT or Bitcoin or Litecoin or Ethereum. There should be an internet model that allows you to easily do transactions within the system, conversions, so when that happens, as a matter of fact, it will empower the in-ear. It will empower that to my understanding, it will empower the in-ear because currency, you can easily just flip your Naira into USDT, which is a digital currency or your Bitcoin and also vice-versa. So you see money flows, the only challenge I believe is because they are afraid of probably money laundering and the others. So that's why they created the in-ear so that they can actually monitor who is moving monies around the world. Will that not be something that can be addressed by online banking, which they could have taken advantage of and put in the infrastructure that will let us do the online banking well when there was this cash crunch? Instead, when people tried to migrate to online banking, accounts were freezing, everything was not working, and people couldn't even withdraw their money and all that. So will that not be addressed by online banking with correct infrastructure? That's the word. The word in-ear is infrastructure, correct infrastructure. That's the word in-ear. I was in Nairobi three weeks ago and they have the impesa. They have the correct infrastructure in place. You do a transaction, it's e-money. What I call it is mobile money. Before you click transfer, the money is already where it's going to. A lot of people don't have banks there, they just have their mobile money. But if the infrastructure works, I think the first thing our financial institution should do is to make sure the infrastructure works. When I press my banking app, my USDT code, and I press it on the phone, I'll be believing God, be praying that it goes through. Maybe I'm in front of somebody who wants to pay money for goods or services. You'll be believing God's prayer points for you to click the USDT and say, how this thing will go this time? How this thing will go? You'll be praying. It doesn't require prayer. This is just infrastructure. And if we've not gotten ordinary USDT code system working well, then I wonder how we can actually fit into cryptocurrencies or digital currency payment or CBDCs. So we need to have infrastructure working efficiently. People like the Kenyan people can easily migrate to cryptocurrency easily. But because they have the infrastructure already. And so the first thing for us is to have fully functional infrastructure that can help small businesses to do transactions easily. Individuals around Nigeria to do transactions easily. Now you owe your mobile app. You're trying to make a payment. It will be rolling and rolling and rolling. And sometimes it debits you and tells you that the transaction was cancelled. And it's also a lot of confusion. So we really need to get infrastructure in place. First, even with the current or a payment system that we have before even going forward to digital currencies or central bank issues, digital currencies. Okay, but just trying to get this clarity. Some countries around the world are developing their own currencies to fit into the crypto world. Like we have the US is activating its version called a Fendt Now service which many are calling the first step towards a central bank digital currency. What did Nigeria not do right for eMoney, for instance, eNira to be at par with those kind of things that some other countries are putting in place? Well, the word there is acceptance. And the timing was bad. I want to put that to you. Maybe the timing was bad. And if they have allowed us, for example, banks were closing people, closing accounts of young people who are using cryptocurrencies, for example, who they thought they were using cryptocurrencies. And all this kind of energy. Okay, we can't hear anything from our guests. Dr. Fivo Sunano, we do hope that he can rejoin us to finish what he started because our time is almost up anyway. But we would have loved him to finish what he started. If he can rejoin us before the time that we need him to be on the set, then we'll take him for his final words. But otherwise, we've been talking about cryptocurrency and how eNira fits into the cryptocurrency revolution. And he has told us a lot of things. He's told us what cryptocurrency is, which is just a minute part of the blockchain technology that allows for people to do transactions without the need for any middleman. So it cuts down the cost because the cost of the middleman sometimes is what really pushes up everything that you are going to do in the financial space. Okay, some countries are developing their own, but like he said, the eNira came at a wrong time. The timing was terrible. And it hasn't really added any value to the eNira as it were. But things could get better and all that. The main thing is that now it is a development that is welcome because there is a discussion already on how to improve and how we can take advantage of cryptocurrency or the blockchain technology as it were and all those things. But before now, like I said, there was discomfort in some quarters. Okay, maybe because they didn't understand it well, maybe because as the doctor said, the regulation was what was giving the government some conniptions. But now that the cost is clear, the things are clearer and all that, we do hope that we join the global community in ways that are good enough. There is sufficient regulation, there is transparency, there is security for whatever monies that you have on the cyber space and all that. So if we can get all that, I could have asked Dr. Sonano here to tell me if the security is tight enough. But we would still like to thank him for coming on the show. So if you are in that space, get the people around you to know what you are doing and how we all can tap into that. Who knows? In the next 10 years, maybe we will not be holding currency or paper currency anymore, whether we like it or not. If the world has moved from there, we have to move as well. Because if like Dr. Sonano said, people were afraid that normal banking will be impacted by that, where are the post offices today when we have the phones to take calls, the phones to send messages, the phones to do whatever we need to do. The postal services are no longer as vibrant as they used to be, but they are still carrying heavy things to destinations that they need to take them to. For instance, if I write a novel here and I want to take it to my village, I might need the services of a post office if the one in my village is still functioning anyway. That's how it is. So they still have some critical things that they are doing. They are not really going to be faced of. But if they are going to be faced of for something better, then why not? So there shouldn't be that fear. We do hope that the government will do everything to regulate these things. Today we started off talking about a skit maker who is in the correctional facility because he did something that maybe he didn't even know was bad, and that is because there is no regulation, or at least enlightenment. Because sometimes all you need to do to regulate somebody is to just enlighten them about the workings of that thing and what they do's and don'ts of that thing and how it relates to the laws of the land. Okay, Doctor, you are here. We lost your audio at some point. And as we are wrapping up, I'd like to know how much security that we have in the cyberspace. When we are doing Bitcoin, we are doing biners, we are doing all those cryptocurrencies and all that, because people are getting more and more interested. So how much of this security do we have in that space? I can't hear you, Doctor. Maybe you should unmute yourself. Maybe something happened. Okay, good. The blockchain space is very, very secure. The challenge that many people experience when they talk about cryptocurrencies and all that is that most people are not investing in blockchain. They are not buying cryptos. They are just putting money into systems that allow them to get their return on investments because they make payment through Bitcoin. They thought that they bought Bitcoin. They're not about Bitcoin. They're not investing in crypto. They're actually investing in systems that allow them to pay through Bitcoin. And when the investment fails, when the return on investment fails, they consider that the lost money crypto is unsafe. No, that's not correct. Crypto, yes, definitely is risky in terms of if you buy something, buy a crypto, I expect that the value will go up and the value does not go up. That's a different ballgame. So it is very safe. You talk about the technology. If you are putting money using the crypto system or the blockchain technology, it is very, very secure. Now, what people should be investing more, especially in Nigeria, is trying to find out how the technology will work, number one, and also join community-based cryptocurrency. Join community-based cryptocurrencies. And when you join community-based cryptocurrencies, also seek for mentorship. Seek for mentorship. Which one is community-based cryptocurrency? Okay. We're not on the same level, doctor. Talk to us like if you don't know as much as you. So which one is community-based? Okay. Like, for example, I'm part of a community-based cryptocurrency. It's called the Platinum World. Platinum World is a community of over 3 million users around the world in the modern 120 countries. Now, we have our own infrastructures. Like, for example, this is a debit card. We have a debit card like this, for example. Now, with a debit card, we have different infrastructures. You need infrastructures for that particular cryptocurrency to thrive. With that infrastructure, the Bitcoin, for example, and the USDT and all the other cryptocurrencies cannot thrive. So if you want to succeed, join community-based cryptocurrencies where there are proven infrastructures that can allow you to transit between fiat money, that is paper money, or physical cash, and digital currency. There must be transition. How do I use my Bitcoin in the supermarket, for example? I need a functional debit card, and I think that's where governments can come in, or banks can come in, where they can expand their banking business, where somebody can be allowed to have a wallet, like a crypto wallet, inside their bank account. So I want to travel. I can ask to ask if I can buy Bitcoin from the bank. I can buy Bitcoin from the bank and loot it into my wallet, into my card. I use it wherever I'm going to. So I don't need to... I don't necessarily need to look for dollars. I just buy Bitcoin and put it into my wallet, my card. So those are the infrastructures that you enjoy when you're part of a community-based cryptocurrency. Definitely, you need to seek for mentorship because it's a very wide area. To speak, there are more than 20,000 cryptocurrencies around there. So how do you know where to put your money is very, very key. How do we even know who will be a good mentor to you? And he's not a fraud. Oh, my God. Well, that's a big one, too. But for me, I do mentorship for the last couple of years, for the last eight years, totally free mentorship. I train people across Africa and by this weekend, I'll have a conference in Ghana, totally free. Training people, this technology, I've dedicated myself the last eight years to train more than 100,000 people across Africa and totally free on the YouTube channel that you can Google there and get free information. You can just Google my name, YouTube for free. So mentorship is key. Don't just carry your money and say you jump into the market and say you want to buy cryptocurrencies or you want to start investing. Seek mentorship so that you can have a safe drive. We had our hands bound in the early stages with that mentorship, and today it's a different bargain. Okay, I'm sure you're going to have a lot of calls so people visit that your website or Google your name after this program and all that. But as we wrap up, even though we've called for regulation and all that, the idea for cryptocurrency or this blockchain technology is freedom. That's the watchword, freedom from any incumbrances, freedom from whatever. So do you think regulation will not cuff the hands of these blocks in technology? Do you think it will not defeat the purpose? Regulators don't like freedom. Now, that's why we are very worried about the central bank-issued cryptocurrencies because it's another way to make sure people are monitored. Because when your finances are monitored, your life is being monitored because money is like blood that flows through a vein. So now the CBDCs seek to make sure even though they want to give you digital currencies but the whole plan is to keep you monitored because inside of these transactions they have codes in these transactions so they can know exactly where all your money is going to. It's all more clear than what it is now. So we hope they are honest when it comes to getting involved in this crypto space. Otherwise, I would just say, why not just measure this existing digital currency instead of creating your own digital currency? And that is why people are not really people are weary about adopting the central bank-issued digital currencies. Okay, but to be fair to the government, if everybody is free to do transactions, it could encourage terrorism, for instance, because nobody knows where your money is going and nobody knows where it's coming from. So that transaction can be done like that. So how do we create a balance between that freedom and the need to keep our society safe? Well, I agree with you there, but the point is even before cryptocurrency emerged, terrorism was already in the world. They were already making their payments. All kinds of money laundering was already there. So what I think also is that, like you said, they should create a balance. First of all, let them make people feel comfortable. First of all, with this current digital currency they have, you can actually regulate it. You can regulate exchanges the way they do their business. You can put something in place. You can say in this wallet, please create what you call KYC, do KYC for each of your wallets so that we can know who owns that wallet. We can trace that transaction, each transaction into a wallet in terms of money laundering. But there are many wallet services that allow you to do KYC. So if big transaction takes place and is linked to that wallet, you can say, okay, this money passed through, so there are so many wallets. Yet it can be cumbersome, but it can be done. So there are a lot of things to do. Okay. I would like to say thank you to you. Dr. Fevo Sunain. Thank you so much. We are coming on this program. We are going to buzz you up to mentor all of us. So that we need to... Okay. I promise we will not use the money to jack up, but we will just use the money to survive in here. Oh my God. Please don't. Thank you so much, Dr. Sunainu, for coming on this program. Thank you so much. Okay. Well, we've been talking with Dr. Fevo Sunainu of Platinum Wall, Ultima Africa, and we were addressing the issue of the place of E-Nira in the cryptocurrency revolution. Okay. Well, eventually that will be where we draw the curtain for today. But remember that today is Tuesday, and Tuesday we always find time to talk technology. That's why we brought even the money we were talking about. We're talking about money that has been brought to us by technology. And that is why we leave you with this quote this morning. Technology like art is a soaring exercise of the human imagination. A soaring exercise of the human imagination. Someone in literature said that poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful emotions. In technology they are saying technology like art is a soaring exercise of the human imagination. And that's according to Daniel Bell. Remember that always, and make sure that you're developing yourself in the space that will be the future, or that is already the future. Let's do it again tomorrow. My name is Nyamgul Agadji. Bye for now.