 I've learned its best. Hello everybody and welcome to another interview with the artist and today I am very excited to be sitting down with a man who probably needs very little introduction, I would hope, to most people watching this. Andy Wardle, winner of countless awards, part of Cult of Paint, an incredible teacher, has a new YouTube channel that's out, a wonderful Patreon, an incredible teacher. So all in all, you should know this person if you don't. But Andy, how are you doing today, sir? Doing very well. Is that nice introduction? All completely earned. I am sure like many of my audience, I've been a fan of your work for an incredibly long time. You do such beautiful work and we're going to get into that later on. Some of the pieces we're going to look at, I'm really excited to have you share the stories of some of these. You paint both and you have armies, which is great. So you both will paint armies up to an incredible standard. You do amazing display pieces, so it's going to be really wonderful. I can't wait to get into all of it with you and how you think about the hobby. Perfect. You got a comment? So let's start out where we always do, my friend. Let's start at the beginning. So as I always say, we engage in a weird hobby. We decided collectively to get together and take little tiny plastic and resin things and put paint on them and that's going to be a major focus of our life, which is weird, but fine. So how did you get into this? What was your inroad into the hobby? I'll try and keep it concise, but basically I've had three runs at the hobby. The temp three's worked out all right, but I first discovered models and stuff. I did airfix kits with my dad actually. So we just do planes and stuff and I distinctly remember a cling on bird of prey and putting Hombra or Nammals on it and it was so shiny, you could see your face in it and stuff. And then I remember going to a toy shop, actually, not a Warhammer store and looking for like a new airfix kit and I was like, what is that? And it was a space marine bike, which still hasn't changed, but it's still the current kit. But yeah, it was a space marine bike and it was £5. And I was like, mind blown, couldn't believe how cool it was. And I later got as a president for my birthday or something later on. So yeah, that was definitely my first kit and I can actually kind of remember seeing it on the shelf and I did that, must have been age 10 or something. And I only did it for a couple of years when I was a kid and I moved to secondary school or high school and just stopped doing it, as a lot of us do. Sure. The gap year is very common. Yeah, yeah. And then when I was 18, I went to university and I met a couple of guys and they were like, do you remember this, like Warhammer and stuff and I was like, yeah. So I had another go at it and I went to a games workshop and there was never a games workshop where I was from. So actually I didn't really experience a store, a games workshop store until I was 18. And they had a really, really fantastic manager at the time called Alan Bruce. He was a really, really good guy, good hobbyist and it was quite a nice store in Barth City in UK. Okay. I did some Dark Angels. I've got him somewhere up here on the shelf. I've got the first model I painted as an adult and it's really bad. So I want to drill on that for a minute because I have, I have, I think the same thing. Like I keep the, I don't know if it's actually the first. I don't know if I'm that lucky, but it was in the first, like, let's say month, you know, first couple I painted, right? I keep a couple of those around. I would never strip that and repaint it. Why do you keep it around? I keep it around, like this, this might be a bit too deep for the intro of the interview. No, it's all right. That's the one we're here for. Sometimes I get, like everyone frustrated with my painting or I'm not happy or I'm like, you know, this sucks. This doesn't look how I want. And actually having that Marine is kind of like, come on, you've come a long way. Let's just chill. Let's just, we'll get better. You might not be happy with whatever is you're doing it right now, but you can get better and just remember that. Look at this. Yeah, exactly. It's like a living, it's the same reason I think people keep photo albums around, right? Like it reminds you of where you were. I think that there is such a power to that. It's funny too because I am glad to hear you share that you sometimes get frustrated with your painting. I think there's often the perception of painters who are at your level who do stuff that as we look at on the internet, you know, or whatever we see at a competition is frankly just mind blowing, right? And you're like, oh, we just assume that what happens is Andy sits down, he looks at the model and he goes, okay, I know exactly what I'm going to do. And then it's just execute, plan, paint, and you know, just like, boom, everything always comes together. Easy, peasy, lemon, squeezy. Yeah. And so it's the same for me and I'm glad, I'm sure many others. So I'm glad to hear that, that that's there. And that's a really good tactic for remembering where you came from and seeing that like, oh no, actually, yeah, this might not be exactly where I want it. But look how far we've come. Yeah. Yeah, I've had a lot of that recently. So yeah, it's been useful to have that guy on the shelf. Nice. Nice. So you're so you're you're 18, you're going off to college, you're getting into this Warhammer group. So here's my question. At that time, were you, side note, was this 40K that drew you back in or fantasy that drew you back in? I was, it was Dark Angels. Yeah, so 40K. So I always, you know, my taste doesn't change that much. As you look at my models, but I had, when I was a kid, I had wood elves and high elves, and I had Dark Angels and Blood Angels, Angels of Death. And when I came back when I was 18, I did Dark Angels. And yeah, so that's what I did. And I did, I did do some fantasy. I did high elves and wood elves. So yeah, kind of always been stuck with those armies at the three points of hobby. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So you're into it there, but how are you? So when you're, you've got, you're getting your army together or whatever, like we all were when we were in college, much the same. I got into Warhammer for the first time in college. And what was the, the draw for you at that point in time? What I mean is, were you trying to hobby on your army and thinking like, I'm going to do a good job on these, were you painting because painting was just, oh, these are supposed to be painted. I'll just paint them, right? Like, how are you approaching the hobby at that point? Yeah, it was just for fun. Cause it was like, oh, we did that. Let's do it for a bit of nostalgia. And then we were kind of like, oh, let's, let's try the game. And, and we tried some games and actually I remembered we were like, should we, should we do one of those tournament things? And we were like, oh yeah, go on then. Let's, let's try a tournament. We barely played 40K, right? Right. And me and my friend turned up to this tournament in Bristol city. It was, and we put loads of evidence painting the armies. Cause like, oh man, we don't want to be embarrassed. Cause like my army wasn't good. And we're like, let's try and make it as good as we can. Cause it's going to be embarrassing. And I remember the rules were three minimum colors. You've heard of that? Oh, yes. So the first time we played and we've got like, God, this is going to be amazing. We're going to, we're going to look stupid with our bad army. And the first time he was Eldar and they had like a Falcon tank and it was gray plastic. And they just put three blocks of color on it. Like, oh, so we didn't need to put that much effort in. Okay. So then we, so then we played this game and they absolutely destroyed us. I mean, I don't think we killed like one model. And that these guys turned out to win the whole tournament. So first game ever, then we played 40K and we got like came by these tournament winners. So So you, you're, you're luck of the draw in your first tournament, first round was you pulled the most like whack competitive, doesn't care about the hobby player in the whole, in the whole attorney. Wow. What a great first experience. Yeah. That's great. Just all, all, we just couldn't believe it. You know, all the luck. So yeah, I remember that voice. Nice. That is amazing. I've seen some pretty like shallow attempts at the quote unquote three color minimum. The popularity of the airbrush is certainly given a new meaning to what people get away with with three color minimum. But I've never seen that. That is a new level of It was red. It was some red, yellow and blue as well. Of course. Why wouldn't it be? Of course it would just be three primary colors. Yep. There you go. Boom. They know the color theory at least right. And they were like, the gray is another color to be fair. So. There you go. They're, they're, they're above where they need to be. Yeah, exactly. They're bringing a whole four colors to the thing. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So you had your dark angels. Where did the, as you were going along, did you keep playing regularly, painting regularly? Like, what was the advancement from there? And how did you decide that you wanted to, to really like up your hobby game? Like, how did that transition happen? Yeah. So I'll, could go on forever, but I'll try and, try and wrap it up. But basically. I don't mind by the way, but I love the deep dive. Yeah. We kept, you know, I kept playing and painting and, and trying to make the army, armies look better and stuff. And towards the end of stopping doing the hobby, I definitely started to just paint, like just the one-off models. Yeah. So yeah, I started just doing single models and I could definitely feel myself starting to just be a painter rather than paint for gaming. And then the guys I started with will stop copying and moved away and I just knew fewer people. And the online thing wasn't, just wasn't a thing then. So just cause I didn't have that social element of the hobby, I did, I did stop. I think that was probably 2009. I think I think it's 2006. I got back into it and I'd stopped by 2008 or nine. Okay. Got it. And then I picked it up again in 2013 or 14. I think the end of 2013. And in that time, I was doing shift work. So I would, I'd be free in the middle of the day when other people are at work. Gotcha. So I was like, what should I do? And I just one day just fancy picking up this painting thing again. And I said, this time though, I'm just gonna paint figures. That was a conscious decision then. So it was that third time round at trying the hobby. I was like, yeah, just painting this time. And that's the start of kind of my current journey, I guess. So. So I mean, it's amazing that, you know, just what's your, where you're at with the incredible pieces you produce. I think a lot of people will be surprised that you were probably really just, I mean, if you were just getting, you know, back up and taking the painting sort of seriously in 2013, where was the transition point where you said, okay, I'd like to start doing display pieces or competitions. Like what was the first competition you went to? You said, you know what, just like with the tourney thing, maybe, let's give it a go, right? Where did that come into play? Well, yeah, that, like I said, it was all different that third time because I thought, right, I'm going to get back into the hobby and I'm just going to paint. And I always knew what Golden Demon was forever because when I was a kid, I obviously saw it, like, well, you know, Golden Demon. And then when I did it, when I was 18, I knew about it and I went to games day and looked at all the Golden Steam stuff. I never thought about entering. But then when I got back into it, I was like, let's just paint single models. And I'm going to do Golden Demon. Even if I've got my own, let's give it a bash. Let's try a condition because it'd be good fun. So I literally, you know, spent my time trying to paint for Golden Demon in that third time. That was definitely the kind of the main aim and the focus. So I remember just looking at everything that I'd won, like ever basically on a, do you know, Demon winner? Yeah, yeah, sure, absolutely. It's still usable, like it doesn't get updated that much but it's still cool. I think I looked at every entry on there and tried to analyze what's the standard. Gotcha. And then put myself against that. And of course I went to Blood Angels. Did, you know, it's always those two, Dark Angels, Blood Angels. Sure, I get it. You always the Angel chapters. For me, it's all the Fist chapters. So I understood. Oh yeah. There you go. I did do that eventually. But yeah, and I remember painting one Blood Angel and I was like, okay, that's really bad. And then another Blood Angel and another Blood Angel and then I did like my fourth one and I was like, you know, I'm quite an analytical person and I think I can be quite a realist, you know, in comparing myself. Okay. I was like, I think this is almost up to standard but only maybe for the squad category. I said, I can't do single figure. I've not got the skill set. I looked at all the squads and I was like, yeah, that's an amazing squad. But every now and again, I thought, you know, some of the bronze squads, I was like, maybe I could do that. Maybe, maybe. So I did this fourth Blood Angel and I thought, this is cool. This is a step up. Let's do five more like this. And I spent months, I think, how long was it? Maybe eight months painting a squad of Blood Angels and that's it. Wow, wow. But I didn't paint that often then. It might be five hours a week or something. Okay, gotcha. Sure, sure. It was low and my technique was bad but I was so determined. I would just keep going and- Yeah, sure. Just brute forcing it, right? Yeah, that's how I do everything. I think, yeah. And yeah, I was like, cool, I've done this squad. And then I went to my first Golden Demon, which was 2014. And I was like, you know, I can't actually remember how I felt but I assume I was nervous. Because I remember being nervous for all the ones after. But the first one, I can't remember that much but I thought, you know, maybe get a finalist or whatever, let's see what we do. And I remember walking in and one of my friends said something and mine were on the top shelf. And I'm like, I mean, I've got one. And they're like, yeah. And I went, that can't be right. This can't be right. And I was, I won't be able to replicate that feeling ever again in a painting competition. Right. But then I was like, have my place for short. It's a joke. You know, like, no, you've got a Golden Demon. I was like, oh my God, I've got a bronze. Best day ever. And I was so stoked. And it just got better because it turned out I got the gold, which was just weird. Pure weird to me. I couldn't believe it. But I did work, I was gonna say something bad then. I worked really hard. Sure. I worked really, really hard on those for ages. I was just really surprised. So yeah, that was my first Golden Demon. That's amazing. Then I was in. Right. That was me not quitting the hobby from that sort of moment. That's absolutely fantastic. No, that it's one of the funny things about Golden Demon is that top shelf placement thing for people who sort of people who don't know exactly how Golden Demon works. You come over, you turn in your thing and like now they've gone to the system of little stickers, they've kind of evolved over the past couple years, these little colored stickers of like, so you'll know kind of right away or often during pretty soon whether or not they're gonna like, you're gonna be finalist and certainly, you know, because they just put this little colored sticker on there and then they have a different sticker for like, oh, they're giving it, they're photographing it for the Instagram thing and all these little color coded things. And then you're waiting and all this like Golden Demon is so fast. Like it is a lightning bolt competition compared to what you see in like America where there are competitions where I'll turn something out on Thursday and then Sunday afternoon, about the same time as when Golden Demon, you'll actually get your results, right? So sit there for days. Golden Demon, you turn it in like often, I mean, now they do the tutor, they were doing the two days at Wurmerfest but it would often be the case that you'd show up Sunday morning, turn it in, they're judging, it's finalist by one, announcements at three, bing, bing, bing, bing, just like it is, it happens. And that moment of seeing your thing on the top shelf especially in the first year and it's so funny to say that because the same thing happened to me the first time I went over it and up on the shelf and I was like, trying to find someone, I was like, what does that mean? Was that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? What does that mean? Is this for real? Right, exactly. Yeah, so. Definitely, yeah, definitely. And then like, yeah. And I'm like, okay, now I can get excited. Which didn't get my hopes up when I scored that one. That would be like, there's one to get put away or something. Right, oh, it's just they, the size didn't fit on a lower shelf or the person just shoved it up there because that's where they put it back. Yeah, that was exactly. So no, that's amazing. Well, congratulations. By the way, I do have one of your golden demon pieces up on the screen right now, which I have Magnus the Red. The 30K Magnus, which I thought was just a beautiful piece. And you hadn't, I always tried to have one that you didn't send over to me to look at up on the screen just for people to take in. And I thought this thing, I thought your Magnus was actually beautiful. And I'm pretty sure he won gold as well in his category when he was there. So this is what I'm talking about when I say too many awards to count. If you go back through like the golden demon site, you'll see Andy's name many times. Let's play. All right. So from that point, you were just, you were hooked in. So where did you start deciding you wanted to teach? Cause obviously you've made the move here over the past couple of years into not just being an artist and a fantastic artist, but you've done the cult of paint. And I'll, you know, I want you to sort of explain that to everybody. And I know you and Henry have really focused on teaching and in-person teaching. And you've become very well known for leading these amazing classes. So like, where did that transition come in of like, no, I don't just want to paint for me. I want to show other people how to do this too. Well, I got offered to teach with someone else and I was kind of like, okay, yeah, I think I can do this. Like my job is, I'm a trainer in a gym. So I'm very used to dealing with people, giving feedback and, you know, that kind of positive teaching environment. So I felt, I was like, yeah, you know, I love this hobby. You've got strong opinions on this. And I feel like I've got the teaching ability to let's try. And that started out and I turned out it was really fun and really enjoyable thing to do. And it just, it gradually built and built and I met Henry in one of the classes and we got on really well, got a lot of things in common. And eventually we just, you know, had a conversation and it was, you know, do you want to take this seriously and we said, yeah, we both, we both enjoy it so much that let's do it. And we brainstormed for a while on the branding and stuff. And yeah, we came up with a cult of paint, which is kind of like a tongue in cheek kind of joke that, you know, this cult we're all in. Right, absolutely. That sort of thing. So it's, yeah, it's kind of a joke, but we thought, yeah, that's a cool name. We started doing the branding and decided to just really make a go of it. And just try and really focus on bringing as much professionalism to the classes as we can. So, you know, just little things of how we sell the tickets and what kit we bring to the classes. And we're still doing that now, always trying to just evolve and improve the classes. And yeah, it's always been a lot of fun. But I'm really, I think we've been going for two and a bit years now, which seems like a while, but it's gone in a flash, you know? Sure, oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, oh, go ahead. But yeah, I was just going to say it's definitely in the really early stages for cult of paint. We've just sort of just scratched the surface, I think. Yeah, well, you've done a lot of amazing things already. You guys have had sculpts that you've done and that you've released, which we'll take a look at a few of those that you painted. They're absolutely fantastic and really unique. And really you have, I don't know if that's you concepting them or completely or how you're taking it through, but what I'll say is they have this very unique vibe to them. Like each of them feels like their own, like they fit within a specific world that I can see. They have this tone that just feels holistic to them, but it's different than most anything else that's out there that I really like. So, we'll take a look at those. Those are fantastic. And obviously recently, you guys started a YouTube channel. And so- Yeah, very recently. All of that stuff, by the way, cult of paint, all the Patreon and the YouTube and everything for their site will be linked down below. So all of you please do go check out those links, like go subscribe. It's absolutely great. You've put out some wonderful tutorials already. So I think that I can't wait to see what you guys do on the channel in the future. So very excited about that. How have you found that, by the way, so far? Yeah, it's, you know, to be really honest, it's been a real journey for me because all these things, I'm really bad at them. So making videos, making tutorials, editing, sitting on the computer, these were all things that were really not my skill set. I'm actually a very impatient person and doing the hobby has helped with that because it's the one thing I can get to be patient with. Of course, you can slow down, yeah, right? Yeah, but, you know, I've wanted to do the YouTube and the Patreon for a long time. And I've been working on it for months, but with everyone staying in and not being at work, it allowed me to finish it. So it was always something I was doing, but I just managed to actually finally get it done because I had more time at home. And yeah, it's been a real journey for me to learn how to do these things. So I appreciate anyone like yourself who does YouTube content. And I think actually there's so many free tutorials and so many great videos out there. And it's a lot of work. And I really appreciate everyone who does it now because I find it so hard. And there's a lot of, I still want to improve the quality of the videos a lot. But there's many videos on my computer that will not be going online. But we'll practice. So, but it got to a point where it was like, I still want this to be better, but I was like, come on, let's just get some content out that they get one in there and then we can improve from there. So I'm actually quite pleased that I pushed through that. It is one of those things where you're gonna learn so much as you're actually doing it and getting up there and get feedback and stuff that it'll much like the best way to improve your painting isn't to just sit there in a room. You gotta go out there, you gotta get the feedback from other people. I think I found it the same with YouTube content. Yeah, I mean, it was really the, all the various computer programs that I had to learn. You know, I had to learn four new programs and that is just really against my skill set. I'm bad at using stuff. I mean, we couldn't even get this Hangout to Work on time. It was perfectly fine, no issue at all. I'm like, how do I work the internet? So learning all those programs was tough. Like the sound, for example, I was like, right, let's record some sound. Well, that sounds really bad. What do I need? I only need a microphone. All right, gone in. So I get this really good microphone that's supposed to be the one. Plug it in, I'm like, yeah, this would be cool. Record. Still sounds bad. And I'm like, patience is just fading. And it's like, okay, I need a program. How'd you do it? And Henry does very well managing me. And he's like the patient one. So yeah, he does well at keeping me on track. So I'm glad I've got to this point because I've got the basic skills now and it's really rewarding when people just comment saying, it's an awesome tutorial or whatever. So it's great. I'm really happy that finally kind of ripped the band aid so to speak and doing some online stuff. In recording your videos, have you found it makes you think through your process of what you're doing in a more deliberate way so you can explain it? Has it changed? I think to be honest, I was really comfortable teaching and how to make processes simple. Like I love simple painting done well. Right. And I think, and I'm doing a tutorial at the moment which is this towel battle suit. And it's really easy in terms of what you have to do. You just have to do it nicely to get the good result. And I'm a firm believer in that. So I feel I had all those things like how to teach, how to say it. It was the physical recording of it. Right. It took me forever to get a camera angle because I actually paint, I paint like this. Yeah, I'm the same way. I lean back all the time just like you're doing right now. And it makes it almost like you can't record in your own lap. No. And I'm here, this is how I paint comfortably. And that means my back support it so it doesn't hurt. And then my arms are kind of tucked and I'm stable and I'll just sit like this. And it means I can paint for a while without my back hurting and things. Right. And I've got the camera and I'm like, I don't want to see that. So. Right. I'm going to paint like this. And I'm like, I can't paint like this. Yeah. My head's in the way. And God, it was such a learning curve just to be able to paint okay on camera. And I'm still getting used to that. So yeah, it was more the mechanical side of things rather than the, I think how to make the tutorials. That was always fun in my mind. It was just getting it on the screen. I will say all of this rings very true to me because I'm the same way I lean back. In fact, I tend to move a lot. Like I'll come forward, I'll rest my arms for a minute to work on something and then I pull it back into my lap or something. Like I, I'm kind of a wiggle worm. But yes, when you're painting on a tutorial, you have to be like locked. You have to be right here in this one space. If you move like a half inch, you're going to go out of focus or pull off screen or something because you're so zoomed in. So yeah, it's, yeah, it's good times, believe it. Yeah. I know you're paid. I know you're paid. And I will say I'm pretty famous for often going off camera and being bad at it. So there you go. Here's something that occurred to me. So you're, you know, your professional career, you're all one of your careers. Obviously you're a personal trainer. This is a really interesting thing to me because I've often talked to people and said that I think the one of the keys to getting better in this hobby is not just practice, but it's deliberate practice. And I assume this is part of the same thing you do with folks you're helping that you're training, right? They're trying to work on a specific thing. They want to get healthy in a specific way, build their muscles in a certain way, whatever it happens to be, whatever they're doing, you're giving them deliberate specific things that will do that. Do you find that that thought pattern you already had in your head, do you apply that same stuff to your miniatures and to add to your, your own progression? I mean, I've just started doing one to one online. So an option on Patreon to do one to one feedback. And I got really excited when I did it because I just realized the crossover and I'm just setting goals for these people and what do you want to achieve? Okay, that means we need to do this, this and it's exactly the same, formulate a strategy based on the goals and then I'm checking it. It's the same thing. And that's really cool because that's something I'm good at, really experienced that. I've done that and doing this for 12 years. And yeah, it was just really cool to cross those skills over, you know. See, I really enjoyed that. I do really agree with your statement of practicing deliberately. And especially, especially like when I got back into it, like I said, it was so deliberate because I was like, I want to win. That's the purpose. And how do I do that? I need to paint this good. Let's look at the winners and always analyzing, okay, what's the bit I'm worse at? I'm really bad at this, work, work, work. And that's what I'm like with everything, really. And I think that's kind of why I was really lucky to win when I tried the first time. But that was only because I didn't enter until I analyzed that I was ready. Which is actually a bad thing to do. I wouldn't encourage that. I really encourage, if people like paying models, enter in a competition. And people are like, well, I'll never win. But there's normally only three winners. So just forget about that and enjoy it. And I wish that I just went to the events and had stuff in the cabinets because then you just chat to awesome people. And it doesn't matter if you're going to win. People are like, what did you do? I did this. Oh, that's cool. And it sparks conversation. And then I see it now that some of the stuff that I want to talk about or I like doesn't win. It's just awesome. So yeah, just, I maybe had the wrong attitude, but that's how I worked. No, I am certainly in complete agreement with you on the, I tell people all the time, you should go to some competitions, whatever you can. Like as early as you can, because not only are you going to get to meet other people, you're going to get to share in that experience. The community of these things is so awesome because you do get to, you're just chatting, hanging out with other artists. Everybody there is of a shared mindset when you're standing around those cabinets, right? And then also you can often get feedback. I mean, this is somewhat dependent on the competition, but you can often get feedback from the judges directly. And that's going to be like, that is your fast track to understanding where your weaknesses are and what you want to improve. Because those are people who've looked at thousands upon thousands of miniatures, right? Who are a great artist in their own right, who have a great eye for this kind of stuff. When they give you feedback, listen, that's such a boon. Yeah, it's amazing really. And definitely what I enjoy most in the hobby now is the events. That's the number one thing that drives me is the going to events like Adepticon and The Golden Demon. And especially, you know, Montesansofino scale model challenge. Can't wait for those shows because there's, I know there's going to be X amount of people I already know and like, and then there's going to be a bunch of new people. And it's the best part of the hobby for me. So that took me a while to discover that. But yeah, that's why I just encourage people to go to a show. Yeah, it's just the coolest thing. You know, if you, it's kind of like, if you're into the tournaments, you've got the tournaments and that's so, so sure. If you just like painting figures, then you need to do these shows. And just don't even think about the winning or whatever because you'll just enjoy your hobby more if you're there. It's really like that. I think the comparison of the tournaments is really apt because I think most people who go to a tournament don't honestly think they're going to take the overall win, right? That's not actually why they're going. Would they like to win? Sure, of course. No one goes and goes like, oh, I hope I don't win. You know, but they, but that's not actually their motivation. Is they want to go play some games and hang out with people and just have a good time. This is the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I think that a lot of the shows are actually, they kind of get more to that now. Like Adepticon is so many days, right? Right. When I, I've only been in Adepticon once and I would have, I would have had my second time just gone. But I didn't spend that much time in the event and I don't mean that in a bad way. But, you know, I did, did classes, looked round, but we were there for four days and it was just so, so sure. Just seeing different pockets of people, talking to people and yeah, it's just, it's just awesome. I mean, I spent time with people that live quite close to me and we spent more time together over in Chicago. So it really, it brings a lot of people together, I think. Yeah, I agree. And I missed seeing you. I missed seeing so many people this year at Adepticon. Like, that is truly the worst part of our recent situation that's happened for me. Like, yes, I get some time to sit around and paint, which is great. Let's face it. I mean, we all love that. But missing everybody in person has really been like, I feel it in a big way. Because like, there's such a community and they had these regular checkpoints throughout the year, getting to meet people, see people, talk to people, interact, just, just go nuts about talk about the hobby for several days. And I know that's, that's what I'm missing right now. The checkpoints is an interesting way to say it because even though I want to paint at the moment, the motivation level isn't at its peak. Right. And it's normally after you've done a show and you remember how cool it is to do a show and how cool it is to, to bring your best or whatever. And you're like, next time I'm going to do it even better. But without that checkpoint, like you say, I'm like, do I like shows? Yeah, I do. But they do some painting for when they're back. So you know. Exactly, yes. Whenever that is. That's the other thing. Exactly. Exactly. So I feel like I need, I need a show booked in to get me painting more again or something, but yeah. Like that fire. But we'll appreciate it more now, you know. That's, there's no doubt about that. Like, assuming we have this under control, I'm going to at minimum be like air high fiving or actual high fiving everybody. I'm normally a hugger, but you know, I don't know if that's probably not the best idea given our current situation, but we'll see where we at. Maybe a couple of years before the hugs come back. But there you go. Yeah, I must admit that I really want to go back to doing the shows, but when it's of no compromise. Right. I don't want to do a two meter show. Right. Even if it takes a long time for me, I'd like to go back to normal and you get back to enjoying those shows. So. I agree. All right. So let's, shall we get into some of your work and take a look at some of these things? Why not? Sorry to talk about. I'm excited. I'm excited. So they're going to cover you up so the audience won't see you for a few minutes. They'll just see your work. So we're going to start here. We'll start with the, this is the Spirit of Durthy. So you have a Sylvaneth army or something you're like you've been building toward, right? As a Sylvaneth army. That's right. So this is, this is gaming stuff. I mean, we, it's hard to think of a term or whatever, but yeah, this is the level I paint for gaming things. And yeah, this really is just I paint the face and the sword to be honest. And actually the rest is, is quite simple, but I'm really pleased with the outcome of this army. Got a system and managed to get the army done, which was really cool. It looks gorgeous. And we, we're going to look at, you know, a couple of pieces from it, but I would highly encourage anybody who is a fan of Sylvaneth in this line to go again, all the links will be down below. So go check out Andy's Instagram and everything else because you can see, if you scroll back, you'll see the pictures of all these beauty, the current off hunters you did that were gorgeous and all this different stuff. How do you think about, this is a great thing I want to dive in on real quick because, because you and I have this in common where we both still like to make an army here and there, but we're also, we also paint, you know, a lot of single figures and probably that's where the, the passion is, but you also have a passion for an army. When you're doing your army stuff, what do you find to be the difference? Like what is your, is it like, well, I don't do the last 10% that's another 80% of the time. Like, you know, I cut on things that people aren't going to really see or notice as much. Like what's your general strategy when you're approaching that to keep yourself from going insane? Yeah, it's something I think about a lot and I'm really passionate about it. I mean, me and Henry have been talking about it a bunch because like, you know, we're doing these, we're doing these videos and we don't want, we say tabletop standard or whatever to be a derogatory term, you know, with army paintings, probably the term we would use. But I really, I think it's about, you know, just painting the stuff that matters and not cutting corners, but just thinking about, okay, what's going to have the impact? What's a waste of time? So with the Spirit of Durfew, actually the bark, which is the largest thing on the model, right? The main wood. That's pretty much just sprayed brown and then it's got maybe a highlight on. That is it. Right, right. No time spent on the bark. But I did spend time on the face and I did spend time doing the sword. And really it was only those two elements, the sword and the face. And the rest is crazy quick. But when you look at it, it's cool, right? Because the important things are done. And that means you could paint that Spirit of Durfew in a Saturday done. You know, the sword might take over an hour, an hour and a half. And then the face might take an hour and a half. But then the rest of the model is a couple hours. So picking your battles on where to put the detail I think is the best philosophy. Yeah, and I want to draw the audience's attention to a couple things to really drive home which talking about here. So for the audience watching, notice the extra light cast both around the head, the brightness of the, I don't know what you call these leaf strands, I guess. It's like his vine hair, I don't know. Notice how bright Andy took this around here. The inclusion of the red, which red is, oh, well, I guess it's more of a magenta but still. Those reds and magentas draw the eye more heavily than most other colors, like your eyes tend to follow red. And then the extra light placed on the sort of, whatever his conversion of a clavicle is as a tree person down here to sort of frame the face. You know, I've talked a lot in, about how you want to draw attention to the face, the model, just humans naturally look at faces. So that's where you want to spend a lot of time. Between that and then the sword that has all this extra work you put into it, as you mentioned, you create this beautiful triangle. I talk about triangles and art a lot too. And you create this beautiful triangle of focus, right in the center of the miniature. So the bark becomes almost like a framing device to this gorgeous center of the miniature that where all the life is located and all this action that people notice. Yeah, definitely. I actually discovered that I thought, right, I want the bark to be really dark. And so I sprayed it like some Rhinox hide with a bit of green mixed in. And I was like, yeah, that's a great color. And I started highlighting it. And of course, as soon as you do any highlight, you train, you change the overall appearance. And I was like, I was like, with a highlight, it's not dark enough. So I was like, why, why didn't you just not highlight it? I was like, oh, can we do this? Yes, we can just spray it brown. So yeah, that was a really cool kind of discovery really, just like, don't paint some bits. This is the top level secrets right here. No, I think it totally works. It's genius, right? Because it keeps the attention focused, right? To where you want it. And it still looks so gorgeous. Like it's an absolutely beautiful figure. Yeah, I think as I, my mindset slightly changes and for some areas, I think the finish is more important sometimes. And I find myself, we have ingrained in us that we have to highlight things, right? But sometimes, if something's almost a flat color but the finish is nice and the color's right, then it's still nice to look at and we don't actually need to do or spend much more time on it. And I'm doing that now with my towel. I'm doing things of dark gray and I'm kind of like, if I highlight it, it takes ages. And it kind of doesn't look how I want. But if I paint it a really smooth, flat kind of gray, I really like how it looks. So do I have to highlight it? And yeah, no, I don't. Right. And you'll see that my towel, I'm painting in a really simple way but I'm really pleased with how they look. So yeah, again, it's picking your battles. Right. And I think that this is very much in line with the classic tradition of art. If you look at some works from old masters depending on the period, the things that weren't the focus of the piece would often have less detail, less light, less different colors used. They would be much more simple and almost obscured because that isn't what the piece was about, right? There's a figure in the center or these figures that were around whatever in the middle and they were highly detailed. That was the area that the painter wanted you to see. But the other parts, the canvas almost got fuzzy for lack of a better term, right? Yeah, yeah, backdrop basically. Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right, so next up we have your, the solo arch revenue you did. And I was, I remember following this one on Instagram with great interest, this came out so gorgeous. This one really shows off so well the weapon techniques you use throughout this army and you'll see it if the audience goes back and looks at like the scythe and things on your current off, they'll see it in practice there as well. But again, one of the things that strikes me about this and about a lot of your pieces is you use dynamic lighting really well, like how you set the directionality, the feel of the light. I think this piece really shows that off. So tell us about this one. Yeah, I'm glad you think so. I agree really like, I think that's what I'm passionate about and maybe what I'm good at is putting the strong lighting on things and drawing attention. And this is a gaming piece again. Obviously it's a, what you call it, a leader person. What's the problem? No, that's right. It's a character, it's a leader person. Yeah, you're net on. It's a character, so there's more work into it. But again, there's some parts that are painted really simply. In general, this whole army, the focus was the weapons. So if I did a nice shiny green sword, the rest looked pretty cool. But this, obviously, I needed attention on the skin and the other elements, but I really, really enjoyed painting this miniature, which is why I did two. But yeah, the skin, I guess with that, it was kind of the main focal of this model. So I did put all the work into the skin and then things like the wings are actually quite simple. And again, the wood is quite simple. Yeah, and even though you say the wings are quite simple, it goes right to the point you made before about simple execution sort of done well, because the wings have this naturally translucent feel because of the way you integrated the yellow light into the sort of upper parts of the wing structure there, the membrane. That's right, yeah. Yeah, and that was contrast paints, actually. So that was when they just came out. So that was just airbrushing contrast, starting with plague bearer, which is an amazing color, that yellowish tone, and then just spraying a couple darker greens on. Yeah. So choose your battles. I was like, right, what am I gonna do for the wing membranes? I'm gonna save the time and I'm gonna airbrush these, whereas the rest of the models hand painted, no airbrushing at all. But for the membranes, I picked the right tool for the job and that made it quick and that's the balance. So I spent time just blending with a brush, the skin and the sword, and then we speed up the techniques. And I think that's the difference of competition versus the army stuff. Yeah. You can still paint stuff really well on army stuff, but maybe it's not every element. And you have to paint every element well for a competition piece. Right, right. Okay. No, so it's gorgeous. I love it. I love your pop color throughout this army too, that like soft, subtle purple color that you've integrated into just little tiny hints to make it, to break up the sort of green. And of course, going with that sort of magenta infused purple or European purple, I think looks really, really nice. I think it's a great counterbalance to the yellow green. So it's really. I struggle not to paint everything purple. So when I'm painting something not purple or with no purple on it, that's like a conscious decision. Okay, we need to show another color for a minute. That's normally the way with me. It's funny because for me, it's always like teal or magenta. It's the ones that sneak into everything. I can't stop myself. So I get it. I get it. I should do the each really, but. There you go. Yeah. I'm always the good guy. Kind of let that evil into your heart. All right. So next up we've got a dual piece. So this is obviously our loon boss on Cave Squig against the Arch Revenant again. So another take on the Arch Revenant here. So tell us about this one. Was this something that was gonna go to Golden Demon in like a dual category or what was this? Yeah, it was. And I'm actually gonna work on it more. So it's not finished, finished. But I just thought, do you know what? When it gets close to the competition, then I'll do the elements I want to add. So more to the base. But yeah, it was for Golden Demon. And I needed to do a fun piece, you know, like just something I enjoyed painting because I was doing some really big, large projects that were absolute time suckers. And I thought, what's gonna be more fun than a big cherry tomato with a massive tongue on it. So. I've never heard squigs described that way. And I've never heard a more accurate apt description of a squig. That is absolutely perfect. Yes. That one is like Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, isn't it? Yes. But now I have the Loon Curse artwork on my wall and I really wanted to paint the squig and I love painting Arch Revenant version one. So it was just a no-brainer for me to try and do that jewel. And I love the artwork. So often a drive for projects I do for Golden Demon is the amazing artwork we get from Games Workshop. Yeah. No, absolutely. There's so many pieces that will strike the fancy of like, oh, this would make an excellent, like I feel like I could do a good or interesting interpretation of this, right? Like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, definitely. But that was a really fun piece. I must admit that doing a second Arch Revenant was tough just because you don't get as much stimulation. I was like, I was really up for it. But then I painted it. I was like, I've done this before, haven't I? And I really enjoyed doing a conversion because this one's super heavily converted. It's had sex change. So it's a male. And there's a lot of different kits in there. So I really enjoyed going to town on a conversion. But I didn't love painting it for a second time, but it was still fun. But the squig was just awesome. Yeah, it is gorgeous. Yeah, that was great. I love doing red. So that was cool. Just doing all that area of skin. Quite a lot of red though. That was quite tough to do that large amount of red. And then you've got all the other colors I love, purple tone, doing the goblin skin was really fun. I love that. Haven't done a goblin. I can't remember if I've ever done a goblin, actually. Might be one of my first ones. Wow, there you go. Thanks, sir. So let me ask you, like this piece is fascinating also because of the movement you've built into the composition, right? With the leaping squig, and obviously the arch-revenant flying and up in the air. So when you work on something like this, did you concept this out from the beginning? Like what was your process for sort of formulating this duel in your mind? Did you know you wanted them both to be, you know, basically airborne from the moment you started? You looked at the art, they were kind of, you know, very action-posed. And you thought, I want to capture that dynamism. Was that kind of part of the inspiration? Yeah, I mean, if you look at the art, the, basically the goblin spear is in between the wing and the horn, kind of like he's missed. So in the art, they're close together, but they're not kind of hitting. So that's the kind of point in time I wanted mine to be at. And, you know, there's a lot of things or a lot of people say a duel. They should be kind of touching and interacting, which I agree with in the artwork. They were kind of just about to hit each other or something. So I wanted to capture that. And then I really didn't want them both on the floor. I thought that was kind of boring. So I didn't, I thought, well, he's got these huge wings, he's got to be in the air. How can we get him in the air? And really, yeah, looking at the art, I mean, obviously in a piece of 2D art, they could have done what they wanted. Could have had him flying with no sticks or see through a rod anywhere. But we have to. So, yeah, in the art, the spear is right next to the wing. And that's where I thought, right, maybe I can mount this spear somewhere and get him up in the air. So I kind of came up with that. And then I really wanted to make the rock on the base parallel to the spear. And actually the photo, the camera needs to get lower down, but the spear and the rock are exactly parallel to each other just to form those lines and stuff like that. So it was quite a simple idea, but I was like, let's roll with it. Let's not think anymore. So that was that. Nice. No, it's awesome. I love the dynamism of the dual piece. This is one I'm sad I didn't get to see in person, but hopeful for the future. So, can't wait to see it. Definitely. And I think dual was an awesome category. I think it was one of the best. And I'll definitely be doing another one. So, yeah, I'm kind of working ideas for another dual. And I like the painting on this one, and it's pretty cool. But I definitely want to do something with a bit more action, better interaction as well. Gotcha. Right on. Okay. Well, speaking of your love of the color red and angels, that brings us, of course, to the blood angels. And this absolutely gorgeous diorama. I think this was from last year's. We're having a fest, yeah, right? And this thing was just magnificent. Like, one of the things I will say is that you get great photos of your models. I will tell everybody, since this is what I have had the pleasure of seeing in person, that this thing is as good as this picture is and as good as these models look, which they look fantastic. I cannot explain to you how much better these look in person, just because when you actually get to see all of the detail and the effort in this scene and just everything that's going on, it's, this is a mind-boggling diorama. This one just, this one blew me away last year. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. Now, I am proud of what this one looks in real life. And I think it's important because finish comes into play a lot because the arm is very matte and I normally paint non-metallic metals for pretty much everything. It's just my preference. But I actually, I did metallics on these guys because there was hardly any metallic elements. And I thought that would just be really nice to have those little glistening bits of metallic. And I love how that looks in the hand. That's really cool. I enjoyed that a lot. Was part of the inspiration for this one returning to that original Golden Demon we talked about earlier? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got it. So it was only a five year anniversary. So it's not as epic as David's soap as 30 year anniversary. But it was five years. And really I did it because my style has changed so much. So it's kind of like a placeholder of, okay, this moment in time, 2019, what do I think Space Range should look like? What's my style? So, you know, like the first ones I did were like focused on edge highlighting and stuff like that as a lot of a start, you know, with that. But then what I've really grown to like doing is strong light, as you said. So we'll get some strong contrast and directional lights. And I also really like Space Range with a lot of texture and battle damage. So the armor, when you look up close, it's got loads of texture and a lot of battle damage. And that's what I really like than looking like these days. Nice. Did you, are we going to get a video at some point on how you execute red highlighting? Because I think this is one of those things that a lot of people find very challenging. And I think this piece is such a masterclass in how to make red feel lit without feeling pink or orange or anything that it shouldn't be. It just feels like bright red. So are we going to get that video eventually? It's out now on Patreon. There you go, there you go. Well, that should tell everybody to sign up. That's right. Now, I've done a 20 minute video on how I do this red, this exact red on the Blood Angels for Patreon. And there's also a free video on how I've done red for Sisters of Battle. So I did some red cloaks on the Sisters of Battle. But really, to not go into a full tutorial, but I like to find the light and go too bright, especially with red. So we can just put anything in there, a lot of white, whatever, and then go back and apply those reds. And that's how you can get the power and the light. That's my personal way of doing it anyway. Nice. Nice. It's an absolute stunning piece. So congratulations again on the win with this piece. And it was well earned. It was just, it was masterful. I loved it. It was actually, a lot of it was done in this way because it was the first year they changed the rules for this category. So squad, traditionally, they're all on gaming basis. Right, right. Five in a row. And when they changed the rules, it was like, it can be on one big base. And that's another reason I wanted to do it is to kind of, yeah, just celebrate that change in the rules set and the evolution of an awesome competition. And I know a few people were kind of like, that needs to be moved to the diorama category. I was like, read the rules now. Yeah, yeah, no, it's a unit. Yeah, it's a squad, yeah, exactly. I was careful with the kind of the amount of bodies on the base because there's the rock horns on there from the demon, some fun stuff. And there's like two dead black legion guys. But I didn't want to make it a diorama. Right. There's a lot of people also said, and I agree that it could have had more elements in this and I was like, but then it is a diorama. So I tried to try and celebrate that rules change and still keep it a squad. But I think it's a really nice way to present a squad. I agree, and this came out wonderfully. All right, next up, we've got, I think it's surrounded is the name of the piece. This is a bust, I think on, you and I were talking about this. I think this is supposed to be the last of us. I don't play any video games anymore. I'm aware of the last of us. It was like some kind of zombie thing. So yeah, all right, talk to us about this one. It's from Life Miniatures is the brand. I think this is my best work. I think this is my favorite piece and I work really hard for this one. I think that painting a female face is one of the hardest subjects. And I just, I wanted to do it almost to practice the thing that I find the hardest. So painting, painting skin is hard. Painting a female face is harder and then painting a bust is harder again. So I honestly, I personally believe that painting a female bust is one of the trickiest things we can do. And yeah, I just sat and did my research on this one and tried to, tried to practice with intent like you said earlier. Yeah. And I just studied a lot of portraits, portrait photography and I wanted to try and kind of up my game on that. And I'm really, really happy with the outcome. And yeah, the face I put all the work into but then actually the rest of it, like the puppy, that was kind of fun because that was just having a lot of brush strokes and all these brush strokes as well. So the face is pretty refined and I tried to paint that smooth as I could. So that's all hand-painted, no airbrush or anything. I just wanted a really refined, smooth look to the face to practice that skill set. But then the rest of it was nice bold brush strokes and I'm really happy with the output and it was tough. Like there were moments where I had to put it down and understand what I did wrong. And eventually, yeah, I got to a result where still a lot to improve on but I'm really happy with it. And I have a few female busts coming up and it was nice to practice on this one. Nice, no, I want to draw everybody's attention to a couple elements of the skin because you talked about it. Just really again, a fantastic use of lighting to frame the face and the clavicle in that area. But what I also want to really draw people's attention to is how masterfully you worked in all these nice subtle tones in here. Like you can really see it in the right cheekbone here where you see how the light is shifting from the direct light into the more translucent light where it's kind of revealing the translucent of the skin and we're shifting into this almost like yellow CPO tone here and then we're getting into the reds of the cheek and then down into the blue infused shadow. It's such a wonderful, like it's a short space and yet you've walked this beautiful progression that feels so natural given the lighting you've portrayed. So I think that's just a really, really great execution. Yeah, thank you for noticing. Yeah, there's a lot of oranges and purples and it's actually quite a lot of color in there. But one thing I didn't like about my own painting was that sometimes everything's a little saturated and that's cool sometimes, like with the silver net. You know, I went crazy with a really saturated green and that's awesome. That's a fantasy army. But something I didn't like about my painting sometimes was like the skin was a little saturated, maybe too orangey and I actually wanted to do something, yeah, desaturated but still with the strong light that I enjoy and that's what I'm happy with this space is the skin colors are maybe more natural than I've done in the past and things like that. It's fantastic. All right. Oh yeah, we've got the, sorry, I should have jumped ahead but yes, then we've got the farther zoomed out picture so people can see the zombie hands clutching at her. Great texture by the way as well on like the jacket and you mentioned the puppy, just like it's a really good use. A lot of time with busts, I always tell people like the, you know, you wanna be making sure you're really honing in on capturing those textures at that scale. It's just, you have to have them in there and you did a really great job executing on there the different materials. Thank you, sir. All right. So next up we have, so this is your, one of the cult of paint figures. This is the full figure and this is the guy with like the face mask and the backpack. He's got like a little power spear or something off to the side. Mr. Garrett. Yes. He's in his Captain Morgan stance, doing the power stance there. Yeah, I love paying this figure. This was, yeah, for our own brand, cult of paint, and we wanted to debut at SMC, scale model challenge, but we had some delays because the guys who cast it do an amazing job of casting and they just wanted to make sure it was right. So it landed on my desk five days before SMC. Oh, wow. So I thought, let's go. So this, I'm really happy with the look of it, but it is a less refined kind of armor than say the face of the bust we looked at. Right. But I really, I really enjoy that. So the armor's got a lot of texture and it's got loads of little scratch ears and different colors and it's not perfect, but I really enjoy that. And I love to mix it up between trying to paint stuff perfect to your best ability and then also just having fun sometimes and having that five day limit. And that's with work as well. It's not five days as a full-time painter that's going to work and trying to get this done in five days, but it was quite liberating really because I just got it done and I'm really happy with the outcome actually. It's one of my favorites I think. No, I like this piece a lot because I love how you talk a lot about how light can often feel sort of absent from pieces, not just the directional lighting that you've shown. So well, in the previous piece we've looked at, but here also understanding bounce lights and environmental ambient lights, right? Where he's in this green environment, as we can see from the sort of rock he's on that's mossy covered. And you've captured the way that the bounce would be intense on the different surfaces so well because the very shiny armor has a lot of the green infusion because it's capturing a lot of the ambient light. When you move to like the sort of rubber hose or whatever this is, it's a little more, like if you can see a little bit stronger green because it's more of a satin. So it would pick up a little more infusion of the green and then you go all the way down to the pants where they're quite matte obviously in black. So they're not, you know, they're not reflecting back to your eye a huge amount of the environmental light but you can still see a little bit of that green infusion in there. Yeah, I'm glad you can see it. I didn't know if it was too subtle on the trousers but yeah, it's a really nice thing to learn that I think is the environmental light. And it's a lovely thing to teach and a lovely thing to click, right? Right. I think it's one of those things in painting that once it clicks with you, it's not that difficult. You just have to have a little bit of logic. It's like you said, okay, the green is gonna show up on these materials. Like we've made a decision that the light from the ground is gonna be on the other materials. And then you just gotta work it out, like you said. Okay, the metallic bit has more color, the trousers has less and as soon as those things fall into place, you can really elevate your pieces, can't you? Because it's something I didn't do for a long time because I was learning and it's an exciting thing, I think, to learn. Yeah, it just makes the piece feel like it exists in the world as we would experience it, right? Because in our normal daily lives, we don't even really think about it. Your brain just assumes that the color of the world and the things that are around you are infusing into the images we see. We almost take it for granted, right? Yeah, we do. So, no, it's a really good execution of that. And speaking of infusions of other colors of light, let's look at another cult of paint figure here. So this is the cult of paint bust with the rebreather in here. We've got this nice, not only one directional, sort of the strong light, but then we've got this great secondary light infusion coming up of this bright cyan, which I am all about a cyan secondary light. I'm gonna tell you that right now. Yeah, definitely. And this is kind of what I was going back to about the surrounded bust, where I wanted to have slightly more realistic tones. And then this is one where it's maybe not so realistic, but having fun and going for impact. And I just love variety in painting. Like someone said, oh, it's not that realistic. And I'm like, yeah, no, but I'll do something realistic sometime. Like I just love, I love mixing it up and not paging holding into one style. Yeah, absolutely. And also, I don't know that that's always the goal. Like this is an artistic endeavor. If all we wanted was realism, we could just do this all in Photoshop and take pictures of it, right? And that would be, we could just go that direction, where it would set all of the exact sort of, primary and secondary lights for you. I mean, this one was designed to be not subtle. Yeah, no, it's huge impact. The bright, I love the way that you executed here on the bright light coming in on his forehead and the way that that's interacting with the stubble. I think that's such a great touch that it often gets missed where highlights will get put onto a sort of bald head, but then the stubble will be there and the stubble kind of doesn't get brighter, right? And here you've got this light where it's clearly like, no, even the part of the skin that has the hair stubble still has natural oils and stuff like that. And so it's gonna reflect that light all the same and basically fade out your ability to even see the stubble in that immediate area. Yeah, exactly. Like when a light is that strong, it can almost ignore the details. If it's that strong, it almost bleaches out the area. And I love that because it really sells your light source, right? And you've got that detail, you've shown the stubble, but just having that broad light, I really love the look of it. Yeah, it's cool. So the other thing that I really like about this particular model, there are many things I like about this matter of fact, but the other thing that really jumps out of me is the scarring on it, right? So he's got all these heavy scars. And when you approach those, I like the nice subtle shift into a more pink tone on what's actually a little bit more of an umber skin. And I think that that actually creates a nice contrast for you there. Was that like, did you look at pictures of real scars? Were you going for more of the art? And you said, I wanna use a more pastel color here to set against that kind of umber tone. Or how did you think about that? Yeah, it's, you know, looking at scars, they are slightly pinker. And it's just lucky that I had a lot of yellow and orange light in my skin because I wanted a yellow light from the right, basically. So just by adding a tiny bit of pink, like a desaturated reddish skin in your scars is all you need to settle change, right? Right. Sometimes, and this is what I love, is painting can be really simple. You just need to have a little thought behind it. It's like, you know, the scars weren't difficult. We just needed to make the right choice of blocking them in a tiny bit pink. And I really like it when you get those kind of click moments. Just have to have a realization and thinking. And then it's not actually, the physical pain isn't difficult, right? Staying in the lines on the scars, but we do need to just think about the colors and stuff. So, yeah. No, it's great. Okay. Next up, another bust and certainly in an outfit that puts me in very reminiscent of my own youth. And that's Logan. I mean, I grew up certainly watching the 90s X-Men cartoon show. I was an X-Men fan for most of my young life, highly impactful. So this is great. But yeah, tell us about Logan here. Yeah, I'm really, there's a lot of reasons I'm fond of this bust. But yeah, this is what we were talking about earlier when you don't realize the failures people go through. Cause this is the third time I've painted this bust. And I've had some lessons with Mark Masclance, one of my favorite painters, and he's particularly amazing at skin. So I had a couple lessons with him and we did the Logan bust. And I was doing a pretty good job and I managed to rip a massive hole in the forehead accidentally. Oh no. Yeah, so I just put a chip in it and it was on the forehead, you know. Everyone's like, oh, just, you know, convert it like he's been shot. You know, it's Logan, he can survive it. And I was like, nah, it's done, none is done. And then I, you know, so I stripped the paint off it and had another go here at home. And that didn't quite go to plan either. Like, I learned from it. Like I got 30% through the face and I was like, no, this is wrong, this is wrong. And then it came to Montessan Savino show in 2019 in November. And I knew Mark was judging. And I was like, right, I've disappointed him in that lesson because I messed my bust up. So I'm going to paint the Logan bust. And yeah, just as a little thing because he's helped me a lot. And it was just like, just want to show him that I do this. That's what he tells me. And I don't always mess up. And we've seen a lot of versions of this bust and I've just had that kind of brainwave. Has anyone done it in the Wolverine skin suit? And I tried to find if anyone had and I didn't think they'd done it. So yeah, I just went for the Super 90s yellow skin suit. Yep. That was Chimeria yellow, by the way. It's just amazing. It really is like the yellow of yellows. I love both of their sort of primary yellows like they're because they have both the cold and the warm. I think they're both fantastic. I mean, just that, if I hadn't had that Chimeria cold yellow, it wouldn't turn out like this. But the, you know, it's a really funny project for me because I actually did it in a weekend, which can kind of sound cocky or arrogant, like I did it quickly. But the reason I did it quickly is because I've failed on it a bunch of times, right? So I'd already painted it twice. I'd already painted the cup, painted the glasses and a few things I had at the experience. And I was like, okay, last time you made this mistake, last time before you made that mistake, let's do it. So I sat down on a Saturday and I just did that face. And yeah, I managed to finish it in most of the weekends. And then I spent maybe another evening just tweaking a few bits. And for, yeah, this is one of the best things I've done. And I did it in such a short period of time, but only because of all the failures before, right? So you can post on Instagram, people go, whoa, it's great and that's really nice. But yeah, they didn't realize how I messed up and things like that. But that's cool, I think. That's a pretty cool thing. No, this came out wonderful. I love the stubble interpretation on the neck, especially Reid's really strong to me. I like that it's got that rough, you know, what I would expect to have that kind of grimy neck hair that Logan has. I also love just how subtle you are with the yellow. Like you really kept the yellow, like the reflective bright skin suit yellow. And there's variation in there, but you really managed to keep it just in the right subtle tones and still have that yellow have the impact while still having the shadows and highlights tell the story. I mean, the 90s, well, it's just flat yellow, right? Right, yeah. In that great cartoon, they just go flat yellow. So yeah, it's got some light and shadow in there, but really it's just about the finish and the color of that. And the focus is all on the face, of course. It's of course a real work, but I managed to meddle for that, and that was amazing, because that's a really hard show to win. And it was just a really amazing moment, really. And it was kind of crazy to win that award with doing something quite quick, but I know it's all those failures and lessons learned, right? It's not the hours you put into the piece, it's the hours you put in practicing before. And all the bad busts. I've done a lot of bad busts. It was a nice breakthrough model for me, to be honest. Very nice. So the last one we've got is the Wormspat. This is the Nurgle guy out of the recent, I think this is one of the Underworlds warbands. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I really like Underworlds, by the way. It's a great game. Like, you know, you don't need to paint a few models and it's an awesome game, so I've enjoyed doing that recently. That's a game I've just got into. But really what made me want to paint this model, again, was the art. And if you look at the Wormspat art, I mirrored the pose. And if it wasn't for that art, I probably wouldn't have painted it, but the colors just resonate with me. Like, it had a white helmet, obviously purple. We've got some purple in there. Yeah, of course. And I like painting green and I hadn't done anything that kind of green for a while. And I just, I don't paint much chaos, actually. And never Nurgle. I mean, my friends gave me a lot of stuff for painting this because I'm always like, oh, Nurgle's the worst. Nurgle's the worst. Finally, somebody who agrees with me, thank you very much. I'm in the same boat. Yeah, I mean, my friend Robin paints Nurgle all the time and I gave him a lot of stick for it. And he was like, hey, you're doing Nurgle now. I was like, only this one, though. Only this one. But yeah, the art's so cool. And I just, I wanted to mirror that. And it was really nice having that reference. So this one uses a lot of weathering and a lot of elements you've got, obviously. As one of the fun parts about doing Nurgle is obviously that you get to play with a lot of elements in extreme ways you might not be able to that would feel correct on other ranges or other lines. Do you enjoy adding in these kinds of elements, like the weathering, the damage, the rust, all that kind of stuff? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, it's kind of how I would paint most models. So like we're talking about the blood angels, the armor's kind of in the same way. Maybe there's a bit more rust on this, but the blood angels and this Nurgle guy are painted with some strong light and a lot of texture and scratching on the armor. And it's just a style I like right now. And it might change. I might evolve and start doing stuff perfectly smooth. You don't know. There you go. But it's just kind of a look I like on armor at the moment. And it was the same as Garrett, the cut of paint figure in the white silver army. It's all a similar style that I'm doing right now. But mostly it was just, I could see from the pose, it was perfect for painting in this dramatic light sense, right? Yeah. Had that awesome shoulder pad. That's just screaming for like, this is where we're gonna paint some strong contrast. Yeah. We're gonna do the same on the helmet. We have this awesome plume of hair to just add that touch of color. It's just an awesome model. Really one of my favorites for years actually. And yeah, I just really enjoyed painting it in a nice small, simple base. See, I need to find something similar, I think, for my next project. There you go. That brings us to the end of that. So I'm gonna bring you up on camera here. So if you're picking your nose or anything, there you go. Now you know. Yeah. So let's end with our lightning round Q&A. So we've got some final questions. Here we go. You ready? Are you ready for the lightning round? Drake. All right. Here we go. And by the way, people in the audience who are watching, if you have some questions for Andy, feel free to drop them in now. I'll pick a couple and we can ask those if anybody has any questions they wanna ask. All right. So first question. And this is the tough questions. The toughest one, because you're only allowed to pick one. I think I'm gonna be good at this, but I'm... All right. Here we go. Who is your favorite miniature painter besides yourself, past or present? Mark Mascans. All right. You mentioned Mark earlier and I agree. His skin tones are like just, he is a, my mind melts out of my ears when I look at what he does with skin. Do you think, is that what draws you to it or what was it about? What about Mark's work draws you in? Yeah. I mean, I talk about it with my friends a lot because we'll say what to be like. And there's loads of amazing painters, but why Mark's stuff? I've always liked Mark's stuff. And it's quite weird because he's a friend of mine now and he's taught me a lot of lessons, but he was, before I knew him, he was one of my favorite painters and all his colors and his palettes resonate with me. Like, when I looked at his work, when I first discovered it, I loved all his color selection. And I was like, that's how I would wanna do that model. That's how I wanna do that model. And then he's just got that illustration style, which is my favorite style, that illustration look. I remember seeing his Pappajambo bust. Yeah, yeah, yep. Which is the Ork bust. And that was one of the first things I was like, that looks so much like a 2D painting. And at the time, my understanding wasn't quite there. And I understand that Pappajambo more now. But when I first saw it, I just loved it. I thought that it's just, this is miniature painting, this is wicked. And when I've had a lesson with him, and he teaches you how to paint the female face, I was just like really, really got how amazing his understanding was. And I still think he's the best painter of a female face. So you can argue who's the best painter or who's your favorite painter and there's a difference between the best and your favorite. Sure. But I do think he's the most skilled at the female face. And his understanding of the anatomy and that is wicked. But yeah, just his stuff's always what I like looking at the most. Nice. He's a badden. He's a badden, he just painted. I'm like, yep, best of badden. That is awesome. Right, right, right. Yeah, I saw that, it was amazing. Yeah. All right, I think we already touched on this one. But let's lock it in. What's your favorite color of paint? And this, can it be a specific one? Sure, if you have a specific one, yeah, absolutely. It's just purple, yeah. Yeah, right on. Purple is the color of royalty. There's nothing wrong with that answer. Good. All right, what is your favorite type and you can construe the word type however you want, okay? All right. What is your favorite type of miniatures to paint? Elves. There you go. I told you about me because it's some like, I'm really binary, I'm like, I like this. Oh, that's right, you are, I will tell you right now, you would be scoring the best out of all of my interviews on the lightning round questions. All right, we've got a few from the audience here. So let's see if we can hit these. Megahamster said, do you use mediums or other things like that when you're blending for your smooth blends? Like do you just use water, do you mix in mediums? What's your general tactics? I believe that you should practice with just water. And the reason for that is if something's going wrong, you need to work out the variables, right? And if you can get a perfect blend with two paints and some water, you've got it, right? And then sometimes maybe a medium could help, but I do think try and learn the skill in its simplest way. And short answer is I pretty much only use water. And a lot of the people who I speak to, who I think are some of the best painters like Richard Gray and stuff. And I'm sure they just use water as well. So sometimes I use retardant or slow dry, but that's only with paints like scale 75, that can be a bit of a pain. Right. And sometimes I don't use many of those, but sometimes there's a color I love and it's a bit of a pain to work with, but a little bit of slow dry might make it less of a pain, but yes, it's water. Short answer, it's always water. I mean, just practice. Technique, water, simple stuff. There you go. Okay, let's see. What was your favorite aha moment in your hobby journey? Yeah, I don't know, this is quick fire, so I don't know how long you want these answers. But I remember painting space marines and I wanted to move on from highlighting the edges to highlighting the volumes, right? So you've got a cylinder on the leg and the highlights gonna follow that cylinder, right? And I'd layer up, layer up and I'd finish and I'd have this real skinny highlight and I'd be like, why doesn't that look right? And it was learning that to make things look natural, sometimes highlights need to be big and broad and soft. And if someone had given me that lesson, I would have saved a lot of time. And, but that's really cool because when I do the lessons now, and you must have the same thing yourself, but it's dense, but it's hard to remember what people do and don't know. Right, sure. I'm like, sometimes I'm like, am I giving them something too easy that everyone knows this? But then I was like, you didn't know that and you would have saved loads of time if someone did. Right. Yeah, I guess understanding the widths of volumes and was just a real click moment to me. And that's why I like the red blood angel squad because that's the difference between my first blood angel squad is I learned these broader highlights look more natural and nicer. So there you go. Awesome. No, I agree that like understanding the, and how switching that around will have such a vast visual impact on what you're dealing with because when you take real short stroke highlights, when you've got a tiny transition, a very small volume highlight, you'll keep a much more saturated color if you stretch your mid-tone out, right? Whereas if you expand it, then the whole thing feels weaker but that can be valuable sometimes. Just really understanding the play there, right? Of those things is such a big moment. So yeah, I completely agree. All right, cool. Let's see, one more. And I think this is a cool question. I'm gonna kind of rephrase your question, Alex, but we'll end on this one. So he said, you talked a lot about starting projects with clear ideas in mind, like, you know, based on an artwork or something like that. Do you ever start with less firm plans or how do you know, and I think this is the crux of the question, how do you know when something isn't working? And like, where does that point come for you? How do I know if a project isn't working? How often do you find yourself up against that wall where you literally go back to square one or something like that and say, well, no, this idea is not working. Oh my. So Logan, that was my third Logan. The last of his bust. That was my third attempt on that. You know, there's the Seth bust from Colt of Pain. I did that a couple of times. It's all the time. But part of that comes from, I'm really fussy. So sometimes a project's not going because of a technical issue. So sometimes I might be like, okay, I want the light to be this bright and I'm building up and building up and I'll go, I've started too dark. It's gonna take loads of layers to get to the brightness I want. And then it's gonna be a bit rough. I've got to start again. So it can be simple stuff like that. But actually it goes back to when we're talking about army painting, competition painting, right? Army painting, I just do it and it's done. And whatever it's fine, you move on. But if it's a really important competition piece, then anything that's annoying me, I might just start again. And you can push through sometimes and fix things, but if it's really bad, then I will start again. But I do think that I learn every time that I make the huge mistakes. And it goes back to talking about the Logan. That Logan didn't take me long to do, but I just messed up. And I knew I messed up before because the tones were wrong and the volumes were natural and soft. It's a lot of the lessons that Mark gave me is just start with highlights way too big. Get them on there. And then you can work out and adjust it later. If you're just layering up dark to light, everything gets too small and you run out of room, so plan out a bit better from the start. So I think to sum up, I think you know when it's gone wrong. But it can either be a technical issue where it gets a bit rough and paints too thick or it can be a stylistic error when you've maybe gone too bold. You know, I've done five light sources and I'm not ready for that. Let's do one stuff like that. No, fantastic. Well, Andy, thank you so much. I really appreciate it, sir. It's been fun. Thanks a lot. Absolutely. I hope you're staying safe over there. Same to all of you out there watching. I hope you're all staying safe. I hope you're getting some things painted. As I said before, don't forget all the links will be down in the description. Please do go check out everything Andy's doing. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. Check out the Patreon. It's absolute top notch content from the call to paint. So thank you again, sir. Have a, I hope you have a great rest of your day, great weekend. Thanks a lot. See you soon. Thanks for watching. Thanks everybody. See you later.