 All right, it's Monday, July 18th, 6 p.m.. I'm going to call to order this meeting of the Wendyski liquor control board Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance led by Deputy Mayor Jim Duncan Thank you All right, so moving to our regular items First up is a second-class liquor license for Lara trading LLC at every 57 Main Street, Jenny. Do you want to introduce? Oh Paul do do we have this guest on zoom? No, he's here for another item. I don't think this person is here then Jenny Good evening So this is a new second-class liquor license for this entity the current The current owner this is there's a purchase and sales does have an existing Second-class license, but because this is a new business name it was required to Complete all the documents for in their name. Okay, so I thought he was going to be here by zoom But everything is pretty self-explanatory The purchase and sales he is hoping to purchase the real estate along with the business Well, he is the business, but with the real estate alongside of it, so Any questions from council any questions from members of the public? All right with no concerns with someone like to make a motion to approve the second-class liquor license for Lara trading LLC Motion by Brent second by Thomas all those in favor, please say aye motion carries B is SA second-class liquor license for a and a Asian market Okay, would you like to come up? Welcome. Thank you So you've you've moved into the old J&J's grocery store space. Yeah, we moved there Yeah, do you want to tell us anything about your new business operations? I have I am from the Nepal I started business from the 2016. I have only right now. I have only Asian food Then I try to learn about more business. That's why I try to keep a New business try to start in the all kind of this way. I'm coming to keep my business Come here to get a license for the liquor Going to expand it your offerings in the future. That's cool Are there any questions from council? Yeah, I think it's neat that it was J&J's and I was A&A's Yeah, yeah, what is this right now? I Try to keep on my board. I don't have right now. It's given J&J's name. Thank you All right. Well, any questions from the audience? Oh, Mr. Adi Indicated to council that there's outstanding violations and this property is upward with 30 violations So we've worked pretty hard to the property owner for compliance A challenge for us owner owner is property owner is different though person. Yeah Okay Does that raise any concerns for you and their ability to operate safely Thank you, did I see a hand back there Yeah She also That's Thank you for that There any further comment from council would someone like to make a motion to approve this license Second motion by Jim second by Aurora all those in favor, please say aye. I'm the motion carries. Thank you You're all set. Thank you Follow up on the other issue later Item C is for sarah's cafe a renewal. Thank you. This is a renewal. This is their second renewal They sent this in a little while ago, but because of time we missed the City Council agenda, so it's a straight renewal. Okay. No liquor. Just restaurant only just restaurant Any questions or concerns? No All right, someone moved to approve So moved second motion by Thomas second by Brynn all those in favor, please say aye motion carries And last up we have Mountain Valley restaurant at 212 Main Street. Yes. This is a new restaurant only no liquor and This one's pretty self-explanatory as well Yeah, replacing the friends in a poly friends at a poly. Yes Any concerns questions I can't see Chief Audi any concerns about a 212 Main Street, okay All right, what's the link to make a motion to approve? so moved Motion by Aurora second by Thomas all those in favor, please say aye Motion carries that is the end of our liquor control board agenda may have a motion to adjourn Motion by Thomas second by Brynn all those in favor, please say aye. Hi The liquor Motion by Jim. Oh, sorry No practicing all week. I'm glad it worked. Yeah Okay, liquor control board is adjourned. Thank you Jenny. So it is 6 0 8 I will call to order the Winnowsky City Council meeting Please join us again in the Pledge of Allegiance led by Deputy Mayor Jim Dunham. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all All right, thank you Okay agenda review is next so we have item J this Non-profit funding requests that I have brought forward. There are some guests here who want to speak to that So I'm wondering if we can move this up in the agenda. I would propose making it item C No concerns Okay, thank you Bye. Thanks for coming in So we're at public comment So public comment is a chance for attendees if they wish to speak to an item not on the agenda If you're here for an agenda item, we ask you to wait for that moment. I think you're all here for agenda items Um I believe so are the the folks on zoom. I do want to offer though Symbolium So the item that you guys are here for Is probably a solid 20 minutes out If you don't have time for that, I would invite you up to speak about your organization and the work you've been doing So I I apologize, but I didn't give Him notice about this agenda item until last night. I dropped the ball and so he did not have time to be here for very long Yep, no problem. Thank you My name is a symphony. I am the coordinator of the congolis Community of vermouth. I come here with my Coordinator mr Dodie Chibamba who is there So we have an organization for all the congolis who would live here in the vermouth and it is organization for firstly mutual help also for promoting the congolis community and the Third one it is for integration because most of the people who come here. They don't know exactly. They are confused So we have make this organization It is organization who is registered to the state and to the federal And you know very well here in winoski is the place where the refugees come for the first time They give them housing here and after that, maybe they move for another places So we are here to partnership with the municipality of winoski So we can bring to those congolis who are here the right informations And for that we want to work together with other organizations because and to To spread the right information in our community in our family and For example In the covet time we have to translate all the cdc brochures in the congolis community who went in the year in Winoski, they were you see Bernie congolis people here get Covid case So we come here to help them to bring to them the food to To explain to them what happened to them because most of them they were really confused and We want to to make promotion for the women the elder and the youth and Because most of the people they don't know exactly what to have to do So the last time we have make a big Meeting with women's where we explain to them Breast cancer cervical cancer They were very very happy to learn this kind of program. We call A doctor from the uvm who come there to explain to them And we are here to partnership with the city so we can We can Spread We can disseminate that if I can say like that to them all the right information we can get From the city from the organization from the state. We are here to help and that's why we are here and You know two weeks ago, they were a problem here in In the riverside I don't know the killer young people there related to the drug connection So we as congolis organization We have we take the the problem very seriously and we want to bring The the the good information to the family of people young people who live downtown here in winoski So we can explain to them The danger to be involved in Drugs gang or connection and to do that we need to to make some Concession to them the young people we have to bring them to the recreation to let them know their i know your life They can do something else without going to meet those those people Who sell to them drugs and they can they can do that So we want to go to give to the young people the opportunity to have recreation sport Maybe trip and sometimes to talk to them right away and the family can go Family by family to explain to them what is bad to do and to do that I'll be shortly and to do that we need We need Money to do this kind of of of things Our organization it is organization from From all the the Vermont we have our Office in berlington, but we have a lot of people here for congolese community more than 25 Family who live here in in Vermont, and they are a lot who are The children go to the school here Three weeks ago one month ago. We have a meeting with the The the school of berlington here the winoski school and we have Because we come here a lady told us that In our system here in winoski They are not children who are graduated and they will go to the university Because most of the congolese children who are graduated here. They are on the street Doing nothing and those those are the target for those people who bring them the the drop to them So and we have a very good meeting Where the people from the the winoski school The winoski school the members from Eliano's they too that was a very good things and we exchange and we explain to them what is They explained to us why this situation happened. This is another part of problem. We talk we have they told I received a letter Stelling that we have another meeting. I think in August with all the people so we will be there to this meeting so our presence here is only to To ask the people the This council to ask the the winoski City if they can help us we have write a letter we send to the To the the city so we are Expecting to get a good answer because we are asking some fun some some fun to To help us to pay our rent to help us to To print the brochure and they to go to the family to explain to them the danger of The drugs and they to bring to them the right Information about anything the school the health the wellness the sport So we want our people to live in a very good condition. Thank you Thank you so much. If you have a question, I'll hear it once Yeah, and so that letter is included in the packet We'll actually debate the funding request later in the meeting But I would offer if you guys folks have questions for him. Okay, we could we don't normally do that in public comment Can you follow up questions? so it is a Considering this is proposed Funding use it would it's under it's clear that it's one time Yeah, the conversation would be in the context of that of the funds Okay, okay Thank you so much for taking the time to to share about the organization and I'll get in contact with you tonight or tomorrow Okay, thank you. We appreciate it really your help. Yes. Thank you. Thanks for everything you can do for us Thank you. Thank you We can leave now. Yes. Yes Thank you Okay So we are at the consent agenda. We have our council minutes from june 27 The payroll warrants and accounts pay payable warrants And a reappointment of chief john oddy as our health officer. Are there any questions concerns about the consent agenda? Any questions from the public Okay, do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? Motion by thomas second by brin all those in favor, please say aye. Hi motion carries So we are on council reports Keep losing track of my rotation. Can you start thomas? I can start. I'll make the easy oh My I haven't dealt with downtown lusky since the last time I reported Trying to figure out a time that works for every venue so I don't have anything Okay um, so the housing commission met at the end of june and we reviewed the housing priorities or sorry the um Priorities and strategies from the council sessions specific to housing and talk through some of those as well as a previous work plan There was general agreement that these were good goals. Um, we talked about the potential for Uh, an updated housing needs assessment based on the equity audit findings So we did also go over the equity audit and talked about um, the education Educational aspects between tenants landlords property managers and community partners was of interest as well as Uh, a potential relook at housing needs in the city given that things have changed in the time that we've had since those uh data were first analyzed in 2016 Um, there was an interest in hearing an update on the housing trust funds. We haven't been able to Excuse me. We haven't been able to hear on that yet. Um, so the commission was wondering where that stood and um, there was discussion about potentially Uh, hearing more from partners on a regular basis who are doing housing provisions housing service provision in our community. So we talked about Um, if there's an opportunity to say and buy cd o e o to Um, to talk about some of their landlord education efforts, um, or landlord community building efforts that they do Um, so that was the the conversation we did spend quite a bit of time talking through those But generally the consensus was that those priorities still matter and they still seem relevant for the commission and for the Thank you On that note august 15th, we will be having a meeting of our commission chairs Council and staff liaisons to do the work plan for the upcoming year. So that's a good conversation to have at that time um I Spoke at burlington has a charter change committee. They are investigating Potential all-resident voting across the river So I went and spoke to them about our process They are interested in hearing from folks who participated in the effort here I know you did a little bit I gave them the I did not I contacted our charter commissioners and said here's an opportunity if you wish But if anyone else wants to I can make a connection um Our arpa listening sessions have continued. I just wanted uh, so I met with some napoli folks and Oh my gosh swahili Since our last meeting, I'll just show that the trends I heard were number one housing issues um food security school bus and English and technology training. I think most of that is not surprising and aligns with what we have been hearing Of course, we'll have a deeper dive on that down the road after we finish those Um, and just wanted to say that we are Still seeking a volunteer to appoint as an alternate for our green mountain transit representation and A representative to the board of trustees for town leading tv. If anyone's interested, please reach out And I will be joining staff this week to interview potential candidates for city treasure It has a team Britain sure Uh, the infrastructure commission has not met since our last council meeting. Um We do have a meeting this week. We anticipate having um, a couple more guests So the department of public service is doing outreach on their energy renewable energy goals and uh, implementation plan and they're looking for, um, Assistance with outreach and gathering more Community input on on their goals and efforts there So we'll have a representative at the beginning of the meeting this thursday And we also anticipate having efficiency vermont vermont gas and potentially green mountain power representatives following that to Discuss their, um, their programs. Um, they did efficiency vermont did a walkthrough of the dpw facility city hall fire department Um, I believe earlier in june. So get a report out on that. Um, and Just getting into Providing an opportunity to ask and answer questions about the community's Um program that will be continuing through the end of 2023 So potential city projects, um, for priority there and then, um, so vermont gas, um, also being, uh Energy distributor for the city talking about their programs. Um, their focused opportunities Things that the commission can do to Help, uh, with distributing messages related to those, uh incentives as well And just additional partnerships. So trying to gain an understanding of how all the energy system players work together and how, um the residents and businesses can access Supports and incentives better. So, um Very much looking forward to that on thursday. We'll be, um, meeting at the pool again. So it's a pretty awesome space really, um Excited to just be continue to be in person. So looking forward to to that. Um, and See And I think we there's just a lot of other questions from the group about capital projects that are ongoing That's it. Thank you All right So we haven't held a safe Healthy connected people meeting still really kind of on home there while waiting for the meeting of the chairs So we have good direction to move on um, the first meeting of the inclusion and belonging commission will be on august 3rd at 5 30 So really excited for that meeting. Um, it's going to prime primarily be kind of setting up Exactly what it looks like and, um So a little bit of just kind of getting ready to then move on to the work that needs to be done Um, I have been to also with the arpa listening sessions. I've been to, um, All through that we've currently had and just wanted to kind of concur with the mayor on Housing and I think public transit in general definitely Specifically with the school but also public transit in general and quality language access And learning and I also had a coffee chat at the senior center And I noticed another parallel there where public transit came up there for that community as well So that's definitely a high need And also concerns about, uh, the senior center And making sure that those programs and that space have funding Thank you So we will move to city updates Thank you, so City updates free covet 19 tests are going to be available In Winooski, uh, they will be for, uh, that could be used on people who are aged two years and up They will be available at the clerk's office at the police department At the senior center and at the library. It should be starting tomorrow tuesday There's also going to be a few other locations. Stay tuned for that You may see that your test has a label on it that says that it's expired The, uh, there has been testing done on the tests that say they are still effective So for example, if your box says that it expired april 2022 the new expiration date is now october 2022 So you can still use the test through then The first fermant health equity initiative by pock youth vaccination clinic for those under five went well at the o'brien center There should be another clinic available in three to four weeks. Stay tuned for that Congratulations to officer nathan march for graduating from the 113 fermant police academy Nate begins his field training next week And your cleaning of the winooski parking garage begins july 18th parking will be prohibited in stages So please look for signage Related to to that in the garage or visit winooski dot gov for info The covet 19 recovery business recovery a business grant second round closes soon july 24th If your business winooski business suffered sustained revenue losses due to the covet 19 pandemic You might be eligible for emergency grant funding of up to 10 000 dollars You can visit winooski vt.gov slash arpa for details or call 655 6410 and ask for angela 644 i'm sorry 655 6410 angela Uh as the council has just stated arpa listening sessions are going well. Thank you to the mayor and counselors for attending We are coordinating a bermes session for this saturday. So please keep an eye out for that information The statewide primary election is on tuesday august 9th 2022 voting will take place at the winooski senior center Which is at 123 barlow street from 7 a.m. To 7 p.m Early voting is also available Voters can vote early at winooski city hall, which is at 27 west ellen street You can vote from 7 30 a.m. To 4 30 p.m Or you can call or email to request an absentee ballot again that 655 6410 Or email the clerks at clerk at winooski vt.gov Full details are available online at winooski dot gov slash vote And this is a statewide election, which means that our non-citizen voters Unfortunately are not able to vote in this election Work continues on the citywide reappraisal notices have been going out to property owners full details can be found at winooski vt.gov slash reappraisal For those who don't know the city of winooski was ordered by the state of vermont to complete a citywide reappraisal State law requires vermont municipalities to reappraise all forms of property when the common level of appraisal or cla Falls between 85 percent or rises above 115 percent The purpose of the citywide appraisal is reappraisal is to ensure that every property taxpayer is paying their fair share of But not more than but not more than property taxes The green mountain transit board of commissioners as Mayor lot mentioned is looking for a winooski representative alternate If you live in winooski and you have an interest in supporting the green mountain transit bus service Give back to the community or represent your neighbors Visit the news update section of winooski vt.gov to learn more and to apply And that's it Thank you. All right lots of good stuff Indeed Okay, so we are entering our regular items and first up for discussion is a resident complaint and request I think Eric is introducing Uh, no, I will be okay. Elaine go ahead Oh, yes, it does say your name. Oh my gosh I just saw the heat Yeah, you might have just panicked Eric a little bit. Sorry And uh Nicholas wiener, I believe you're on zoom Paul, could you check for him, please? Yes, we can hear you. Uh, so I'll do an intro and then you'll be um, we'll I imagine the council will give the floor to you Okay Thanks for joining Sure So, uh, we do have a resident Nicholas wiener with a complaint and a request To begin at the beginning The city had planned extensive work on west lane where his property is in 2019 John if I'm getting any of the details wrong, please, please jump in here The city offered residents via door hangers and emails to consider replacing their individual water and sewer lines during construction And the city would cover the costs Up to 8,000 or $8,000 worth of the costs a couple of property owners. I believe it asked did ask for this And we did not hear from this particular property owner Mr. Wiener then after the project was completed reached out in 2020 to discuss his concern about a burr that he found Through a video in his sewer line The city did agree to re-excavate the street to check for damage that may have been caused by the city if the city had Done damage to a private line during a project. We would certainly cover that So at that point the city recollection Is that the agreement was to only open and repair as far as for we would have been likely to repair Damage this is uh, I would say the source of the disagreement. Mr. Wiener does not recall this aspect of that conversation What I don't believe there is a disagreement on is that If the city's contractor caused the issue the city would cover the $8,000 cost of the re-excavation and any repair If the city was not at fault that the city would pay $4,000 and the property owner would pay $4,000 and um Then the city did re-excavate the street Determined that there was no damage caused by the city that was a uh The extent of that work During that re-excavation Was a call made in the field and the property owner was not present at that time So there was clay pipe up to a certain point after that It was newer pvc and the judgment call was to stop the repair at the where the pvc started because that's relatively new And it was unlikely that we would have caused damage past that point So at that point, uh subsequently Some time later, um Oh, actually, I'm sorry. So at that point, uh, mr Weiner did pay The invoice for $4,000 because the city told him we did not find damage that we had caused There was I'm not sure what prompt. I'm not recalling now what prompted him to re-scope or re-evaluate that but then, um, He there was he found that there was a burrow in his surreal line so At this point he started Uh to request that the city Cover the cost of what he was actually invoiced for Which was from curb to chimney is what the invoice says as you see in your packet so his uh Mr. Weiner and I won't speak for him But my understanding is that he disputes that he he received what he paid for and the city is saying that It was miss build So at this point, I'll um, I'll stop there and I will say that there was a a lot of back and forth After words, which I know caused frustration There was sometimes delay on the city's side Which a lot of was because we were under staffed and I understand that was frustrating for mr. Weiner Would you like to hear from Staff or from the property owner at this point? Let's hear from, um, Mr. Weiner from the resident before we go into questions Yes, thank you. Welcome Okay, um I'm not used to speaking to so many people Um, but uh, first thanks for the opportunity to talk about this What was just said was fairly accurate as far as my recollection goes, um, except for a couple of pieces about a discussion that we had that I didn't recall the details of Opening up the ground To see if the city had caused the damage or not Uh, when I had talked to john choke and this is back in 2020 at this point now, so I'm going basically based on emails that I have We had talked about some ambiguity about Yeah, the city was at fault for caving or if it was, uh You know natural wear and tear and so my Uh, recollection was that we agree on a split basically of, you know, of the costs of it because of the ambiguity of whose fault was the plumbing company that had scolded was Fairly added that it was not my fault. Um, but it was, you know, the cost of wear and tear or excavators and things, so, uh With enough ambiguity we had said that, uh you know The city or some of this, um There's life life on the ground or under the street as well as now So we'll all pray or there was definitely some physical damage on this line of life some day So I guess my brand name is you rise with uh, what I have discussions with about is the agreement To my understanding, which is while I was building our meeting voice Was to replace the bikes from the repetition Which is everything on the street And that's what See, uh, I had my rice go 20 years later for an unrelated issue and I started the same Broken pipe that I mentioned fire, but I don't know how many is it It was 60 if you know on the video or so But as I said, my plan broke in 2020 as 2021, which is after the work had been done It took me months of phone calls and emails and Trying to log in or talk to people and see about it and uh, eventually the response to that got us Like hey, let's see if we can find documentation from John Chokas who fly on the storm there We would you know, frankly explain away The state of the state, um They call it Like hey, let's see if it was the right judgment call instead of Let's find documentation to prove it was the right judgment And like I don't understand in what world that you can call back an invoice a year later and say That oh, it should have said this because Elaine had sent me an email where she found documentation from John Chote that said And mind you, this is one year after the work was completed Uh, the documentation said quote It would have been more appropriate to say this on the invoice And I think it would have been more appropriate to do the work that was on the invoice You know, I just imagine if this happens to you or your car or anything where you get an invoice for work that you paid for Or they told you that they did And then a year later and they say oh, well, it should have said this because this is what we actually did and uh The we came up with a potential solution. I thought well, Elaine and uh, john rousher were at my My home, um, which was that BP wastewater is a company that, uh, could remotely repair the chip pipe And I had said, okay, that sounds like a great solution It would probably and Elaine had said it would be cheaper as well You know rather than re-excavate and do all those silly things Uh, so I thought that was us sort of compromising and say hey if BP wastewater can repair it that would be great A couple days later. I got an invoice or uh, sorry a An estimate from BP wastewater That was about it was four hundred dollars for them to do and I was instructed to pay that uh to have the pipe fixed and I think that relies on that's that's me compromising for the city to repair the pipe remotely Um, because I don't want to find out BP wastewater ran into complications And it's going to be 1200 now or something because it's only an estimate and you know, I'm a I'm a homeowner I pay Thousands and thousands of dollars a year in property taxes and I just I I feel that the city should be held accountable for the invoice that I was given Two years ago and not call back the invoice to To justify a judgment call that was made That's all I have for now To follow up questions Our clarification needed I'd like some more clarification on the invoice I guess John or Elaine, I don't know if you can Give some more information on that What exactly would probably be john? Well, yeah, I think I'm confused in the fact that it sounds like We invoice something But that probably invoice for us and what was actually done And I think you said before that the city made an error on the invoice Yeah, I can't like to determine did we in fact make an error on the invoice or did we not Sure, so I can I can chime in on that. So we we did not invoice anyone so the city When it comes to private sanitary lines That work is typically the responsibility of homeowner period In this case because of the Hickok Street project there was the potential That that capital project damaged the existing private sanitary sewer line Um, we facilitated that that investigation because We were going to be paving that street You know within a week or two so our major concern was We did not want to pave the street pave a brand new street and then find out a week later that You know homeowner had a sewer line and you were going to be Cutting into a brand new street that we spent, you know, a lot of capital dollars on so Our utility manager Expected having the contractor that did the original capital project to come back in as potential warranty work To see if that sanitary existing sanitary sewer pipe was in fact damaged by the capital project They did not find any sort of Of Any sort of Observation that that that's existing line was damaged what they did find was a section of existing cast iron sanitary sewer Main that was well beyond its use of life and and was In need of repair because it was probably going to be a failure point in the not too distant future And we would be digging into that street. So The utility manager reached out to the property owner and said look you got to replace us. It's it's likely going to fail We will help you support this replacement and that is the The invoice work that was done. So they replaced I don't know what the linear footage was but um A cast iron section of pipe back to existing PVC pipe that In theory if you know it should be that PVC pipe Given that it's PVC is a relatively Installation we did not install that sewer pipe the the contractor that we have did not install that sewer pipe So our our utility managers Made the decision like let's tie back into this pipe. It also starts to pitch back towards the house slightly which Um, you know, I'm guessing is probably the reason why there is some issues with that that sanitary sewer line Um, so we weren't going to go beyond that point to review when you replace them work anyways because now That that pipe is out of compliance you're pitching back towards the house and it opens us because we're we're trying to facilitate this Um up to some other issues Uh that burr that that's being talked about that is in the existing line. So that's where sort of this miscommunication is that um You know that we were going to replace at first so the four thousand dollars is the replacement of that cast iron line And it's it's a detailed invoice of work. So it's not Um, the invoice isn't incorrect. It's I think the the interpretation of the scope of work between us Go ahead Nick Um, yeah, I got uh, just a couple of points out of that. Thanks John. Um You just you just mentioned that the the burr is in the existing line Um I'm not really sure what that means. I mean a lot. It's all one pipe It's just which segment of the pipe we're talking about. It's all an existing line So we have a section of pipe under the street that goes from the curb to Uh the city main and then another section from the curb to my house And on the invoice which you have in front of you. It says from the city main to the curb and there's some clay pipes Uh and metal pipes in between here and then a little bit of pvc just before the curb about five feet of pvc between the curb Uh john chote decided to stop at the pvc before the curb because it looked fine Um So they said that the the clay in the metal under the road looked bad. So he they and then the pvc looked fine. So they stopped The pvc was not fine That that's my whole point. I have a video scope and I got sonar to that marks it five feet underneath the road It's still chipped. It's still broken. And so rather than call back the invoice to say Oh, well, it should have said this I don't see why we can't own the own the the judgment call that said, yeah, it looked fine. You're right. It wasn't Let's let's fix it. Uh It it's uh, I hear all of this like the pipe should have been fine because it was plastic It was it wasn't fine. So I don't see why It's not being owned. That's all Thanks, Nick. That's what I got John so there's no like scope of work that said here's the area we're going to work in there's just an invoice after the fact Correct and some of that is because it was such an expedited repair We had to get you know, we facilitated it because we wanted to get that repaired on prior to Paving work. So it was it was a rush. So there was no like In theory, right? You set up a Some sort of agreement with the contractor to say, all right, this is the detailed scope of work, but no And what has the conversation been with the contractor because it sounds to me like They're in the wrong in this scenario. Could I ask could I have one detail before john answers? so the To tom's this question The invoice detail is for the work that was actually done. The one discrepancy is the curb to chimney So if you if you measure all the links, that's what we actually did. So this piece of it not reflecting what was That it's being recalled because being entirely wrong. I feel is a little bit Not accurate. So Can I jump in there? I I do. Yeah, I I agree that the invoice isn't entirely wrong. It's just it's The work was missing part of what it said. I did reach out to the contractor first Years ago or sorry not years ago now This would have been november or october of 21 a year after the work was done. This is right when I found That the issue had was still under the street that wasn't repaired I reached out to the contractor and I asked them. Hey, you know, if you guys Are able to to work with me here. I have the email somewhere But I said if you're able to work with me here, I might be able to you know I I think that you need to open this back up and fix this But rather than do it for free. I will pay you for some additional work that I have done that way kind of everybody wins Uh, I was basically told To have a nice day. We're sorry And they directed me towards the city because the city had contracted them Not I hadn't contracted them and they weren't taking private Private jobs, um, that's my my year ago recollection and that's when this all started Okay, thanks Good question. Yeah, I so I in recognition of the What we have in the packet You know see the visual that there is a burr. I think I'm missing some additional background has there been a history of The septic and sewer drainage problems with this property Yeah, go ahead I've only moved in here about two and a half years ago. So I I don't have any Uh, knowledge of the last You know decade or whatever before that my concern though is that if there's a broken pipe under there That it could lead to additional things in the future like beaking sinkholes Uh, snag hazards on other things, you know any flushable item or anything that goes down any drain could snag and there's there's all kinds of Issues that you know, I'm not an engineer. I don't I don't know all of the things that can happen, but a broken Sanitary sewer line doesn't seem like it's something I really want to leave under there Um, and so BP wastewater did an assessment that The burr could be Repair did they also provide any opinion about whether or not it needed to be repaired? John, I think you and john had a discussion about that, right? Yeah, so based on I mean, it's it's a picture from a video inspection. I mean I My assessment is that it's probably, you know, a small slit at the end of the PVC pipe um it could Clog up it could create a constriction and and you know, eventually clog up the pipe at some point, but um, it wasn't like a structural Pipe failure was more of it could lead to some maintenance issues. So the repair that was recommended was um non Non-excavation, but basically run sort of like a drum roll tool of the pipe that they have and it it grinds That burr off. So it's a pretty non-invasive repair So it doesn't sound like BP provided an opinion? Uh, no, but that's I mean, I'm giving you my opinion that it could likely create a clog in the future Okay, go ahead. My my additional question is I don't know what what happens when that burr is removed if there's any pipe If you remove a piece of the pipe, don't you have to put something in its place? You know, otherwise there's just now there's just a hole in the pipe and it's on the bottom It's like If you look at the pipe the burr the chip is it's this big and it just sticks up off the pipe if you remove that Now there's just a hole in my sewer line And I I don't want it I don't want that either because that you know all dirt and all kinds of crap can get in there and lead the problem um, my concern though with the The piece that's sticking up though is that's our an additional concern Is that if I ever have to have my line augured with one of those spinning augers that it's going to destroy my pipe Go ahead. Um, just just for my clarification. So what it sounds like is If the city had So it sounds like the city went in to see if it had been it was the city's fault That there was some kind of issue. It was determined. It wasn't the city's fault But the city worked with the residents to fix the issue because it was gonna Because they were paving anyway They did fix the issue They did part of the issue Which was built for so if they had actually gone to the curb the original bill would be more expensive Because it I was looking at it. It's detailed down by looks like materials used and the labor hours used So it would have been a more expensive repair had they continued on Is that correct John can you answer that? Yeah, that's my understanding. So it'd be a a longer linear pipe length. I mean the labor costs probably wouldn't be You know a lot of those the major expenses such as the excavation and the labor You're not talking a lot of additional man hours. So it would be Slightly more expensive just because you're talking about like, you know When your feet if that back to the curb line But as I said before I mean, we would have not facilitated installing a pipe that pitch back to the The house that is completely out of code And I just want to reiterate that the section of pipe that was replaced That was a ticking time bomb that was going to break. So now that we're talking You know about this potentially put this small burr on the PVC pipe That is less of an issue Like I said, that can be handled with a dremel tool So And none of the damage was the city's fault Correct that was an existing pipe installation that was connected to so in theory it should have been properly installed But unfortunately whoever installed that pipe The the plumbing company that I had contracted to scope and sonar the pipe was under the impression That it was the results of Contracted work above on the city streets with excavation equipment that misaligned the clay pipes and broke them There were some unsure Places in the metal pipes that had been corroded because I didn't see the video And that is natural wear and tear and my understanding And I think this is where Elaine and I disagree because I don't think she spoke with John Choate two years ago when I did Is that there was ambiguity in whose Fault it was whether it was homeowner responsibility or a city contributed So because of that I contributed four thousand dollars towards the cities or towards the construction costs If the city was not at fault then I would have paid all of it But since there was ambiguity, that's why I paid the four thousand dollars Thank you Yeah So nick you mentioned that you have concerns, uh Whether or not the burr is ground down So it sounds like you wouldn't be satisfied with that solution I I mean I fit if BP wastewater is then I am but I don't know what's underneath the Chip is my only concern, you know Uh, that's what I don't want to happen is if this falls on me now And BP wastewater goes in and removes the chip and says oh actually now there's a hole in it It has to be patched and they have to Line it or epoxy coated or something and that's an additional thousand out now. We're just racking up fees that You know, I don't want to agree to until I know That this is the last option I know I I think I I I feel like I've been More than patient about this because it's been two years And I feel like I've been more than generous and willing to compromise on this because this went from a please re-excavate my sewer line to It's four hundred dollars the BP wastewater And it's the city of what you see Like I feel like I I don't know how else I can I I can present that it's There's there was ambiguity in the beginning. I agreed with the city they Chose for some reason to stop short of what they said they were gonna do all they would have had to do is look at the pipe Like the fitting on that pipe that's broken was changed The fitting itself. Here's the pipe that's broken the fitting that was touching it Look at the before and after pictures that fitting was changed And they just they would have to cut an inch of the pipe off, but they just crammed it back on there So I It feels like the because of your concerns about whether or not grinding down the ship would provide a resolution or not It sounds like the conversation isn't really going to be Satisfactorily resolved for you Well if BP wastewater says that that's fine. I mean That makes I'm not a an engineer. So, you know, if if they remove the piece and it works And I'm happy. That's all I want is a non leaking sewer line. That's all that's all I've asked for But my concern is that the The email that was sent to me from BP wastewater was an estimate and I don't know what happens after they Try it and maybe it doesn't work. I don't know but if it works. I'm more than satisfied That this has been two years of We've had a couple city managers and a pandemic and I understand COVID happened and and you know, it's It affected us all But six months of no return phone calls was was tough to go about If I may Our contractor says not our fault The guy the resident talked to says may it probably our fault. We don't have clarity there John is saying We wouldn't work on that pipe because it isn't up to code and ordinance anyhow We clearly didn't communicate that to this resident. So there's a misunderstanding about the scope of work I would suggest either paying for this and calling it over Or continuing with a 50 50 split if there's additional work needed. I'd feel comfortable with 400 I wouldn't I wouldn't open the door to additional 50 50 at this point Makes sense. It seems that there may have been ambiguity at some point, but The 400 is what's covered I would give an an over range In case this is low like what would be a comfortable top end on this estimate Well, I think it should be accomplishing the work if the burr is ground down. That's the work and however much that causes it. That's I mean Yeah, I would agree with counselor back in So I want to make a motion So to be clear, this would be for it's in the burr if the VP then says there's an epoxy or lining That's beyond the scope of what we're talking about here. Yeah Yeah All right, so there's a motion from jim to approve the city paying for the work of grinding down this burr Do I have a second? Can I ask a question about that? Sure If if the burr is ground down and That's it. Is it is it over that's that's done? Or like what happens if there's a problem with it These I heard there was like an epoxy issue or something like that. Is it so we're saying that We this motion is to cover the cost of grinding down the burr if it is Suggested that more work is needed after that then that's a new conversation Okay Not caused. Yeah If there's more work because of the burr removal I don't understand. Yeah, I guess if it's if it's additional work and I that falls on me I understand that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, we're agreeing that the city pay for this work to remove this burr Okay So it was a motion by jim a second by thomas all those in favor, please say I Did you say I okay the motion carries thank you nick and Just another apology for the length of time and communication that you've had to go through Thank you. I appreciate The opportunity to present this and I'm happy to finally put this to bed When when I don't know understand. I don't know the next step. So I wait for someone to reach out or do I? What do I do Nick so this is elaine since the city is now paying for the work then we would contract directly So we'll be in touch with the contractor tomorrow john So I would I would recommend that the city not be involved with this repair so So this is a private line I would recommend that Nick contract with whoever you choose Um, we gave you a quote for the 400 dollars dp wastewater and then we would reimburse I mean, I don't I don't think we should get in the business of doing managing private sewer repairs that opens the stuff to Other issues down the road I don't think this is a private repair. I think this was just kind of settling an issue that was miscommunicated years ago I I will leave that to you all, but that's typically how we would I think address this is you know given it's not our asset to repair But we would reimburse the I guess the contractor for the quoted amount So to be clear you're saying Nick should advance with a contractor either this quote or if he wants to obtain another And then come back to the city at the end of the repair with an invoice Yeah, otherwise we're you know if there is an issue like we're the middleman Again, so then it's him contracting with the contractor and then if there's if there's issues that he has with the contractor with his repair He can address those but we would just be reimbursing for that that first section Is that clear nick? Oh, you're still muted That is new to me. That's contradictory to the emails that I've been getting from elaine and john which are I am suggesting you contract with someone and pay for a fix like this yourself period Well, so what we're saying is yes, you contract with someone and get it fixed and then Share the invoice with us To cover the cost of the burrowing Up to $400 that that part of the conversation Is new as of this meeting Yeah, so we're saying that that is the next step coming out of the vote right, so is that What we're settling on now. Is that what I do? I contract and I'm confused. I I thought I thought it had just it was just like Motion didn't solve and then I now we're going back. So I'm taking notes. Sorry. I'm trying to write this down Of the burr repair You are to actually get the work done on your own You can go back to bp wastewater or if you want to choose someone else We're not going to organize the work for you. Okay, and there was uh An overage amount or something like that if it was the cost of so We've approved this $400 estimate, yeah, yeah But the cut like we're saying it's the cost to remove the burr If there's like additional work that you choose to have done. We're not including that Understood. Yeah, and if it's less it's less great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you very much Sorry, this took up. Sorry. This took up so much of the uh meeting time Thank you. Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you Thanks, john. Thanks Elaine Okay So let's move on to item b. This is on for discussion or approval. It is a Historic marker for the Winooski United Methodist church and we have several guests here to speak about this Ellen, are you going to kick us off? Sure. I'll start it off. Yes. Um, we've been You know we now are on the vermont african-american heritage trail And we are being offered this beautiful sign I do have I don't know if you've all seen these signs. They're pretty big I do have a copy of this. This is the one at Fort Ethan Allen. So it's pretty big. I have no property at the church So I guess we have to ask you if we could put it in the street somehow So, um, if anyone wants to see a brochure This is us in In the um brochure for this So it's a really big deal and really important to the city. I believe so I have Joe here who's our historical Expert and he feels the same way That this is really a big deal for our city to he says no one else has Well, I can kind of speak to that. Yeah, thank you because I don't know So this is a long-standing program of the vermont division historic conservation There's like upwards of 300 of these markers all around the state. Um, I think there's many to give them They were in Burlington We used to be as a type of anything. So this would be a first for my scheme um, and my understanding is that the Memphis church basically their parcel is like the footprint of the church So they don't have any land that they were able to be erected direct the sign So they would have to be like the public right way so like on in a jut out or sidewalk or something like that In front of the building because My understanding is that the division doesn't like mount these signs because they're supposed to be road markers They don't mount them on the structure They have to be visible so that you know pedestrians and on can be tracked And I did ask and they said no, absolutely not They won't they won't give us approval to be on the building And the building has a pretty strong connection to the public folders were stationed at 40 to now Um, the congregations which is really welcoming in their industry to the Buffalo soldiers And even though the Buffalo soldiers were stationed at 40 to now for like 1909 to 1913 They were really a part of the community life of the new scheme. Um, and did a lot of their kind of after hours living in our community and um That district was particularly welcome for them so it's worth remembering that history and Just to also acknowledge There was You know a really mixed reception of the Buffalo soldiers in Vermont There was a lot of significant responses to that main here and The Methodist church has this history of the opposite. They were very welcoming to them and even when The unit was restated on the I believe in Mexico later Some of the the soldiers had been here in new scheme and 40 to now and When there was a loss of that unit the village trustees from when they actually sent letters of Condolences down to them in Mexico So the unit was pretty connected to a new scheme so the sign would be really meaningful to have here and all of those connections If I could add So my understanding at least from the church's own website and research on this is that not only were the Previous congregants welcoming of this new group The new group some of the members of the Buffalo soldiers division Retired here and then became members. So they're part of that community ongoing Um, and also helped rebuild with time and money. The church went out had a fire and was destroyed So it's not like a Them outside and them insides they're part of it too And there's a lot of descendants in our church. Yeah, we do from the Buffalo soldiers And Joe would help us write this this is just my draft Preservation So I don't see that language in our packet Um, maybe it's not there You I don't think we should weigh in on it though. No, but in terms of interest. Oh, yeah, it would be nice to sit. Well Um Yes, yeah, you don't have a final review of what it says Definitely, I just wanted him to help us Do you have someone on your staff that you would like to be involved in that process or is Joe? Joe knows more than all this. I know I'm sorry. That's why I have him here Right, yeah, we can take off I You know question for you both. Um, is there opportunity for any of the descendants to participate in the directing? Yes absolutely And just out of curiosity, Joe, you mentioned that there aren't any of these heritage markers around When you ski I thought there was one over on east dylan How can I know of it? Well, there's one that kind of looks like one at Rickard Park That it kind of has the same appearance because it's like castle women It's not like the state historic sites workers because the the division actually means things like on their website Like it's not fascinating. It's even for a ball of sight and some people who do like the 251 club now 252 club Um, and go on the visits house rubber bottle kind of make pilgrimage visiting all these sites So this would actually add a new ski onto that list as well and make it like a destination Joe, do you know if there are any of the other Locations Again, if I'm in the trail, we're sure that have these heritage markers or would we be the first to have I would be pretty certain that other Sites that other sites on the trail have to have those markers Sure On room seven Thank you It's very exciting Oh, let me ask if there's any questions from attendees Can I So my only concern with this is it's going to be it sounds like most likely on Or in the Sidewalk, so I would just want to make sure that it's still meeting ADA compliance That would be my one thought John are you still on Then Joe if I can ask you if you wouldn't mind just coming up to the mic and anybody else who has public comment in the room If you could come up with that that central mic is so it's pretty hard to hear So, uh, I'll speak for John that when we took a look at the site where he was comfortable that we could accommodate Okay, wonderful. Thank you And I don't think I introduced myself ice on my name is Joseph Perron I serve as the president of the Winniesky Historical Society And just to echo that remark, we of course would want this to be an ADA compliance as well It's kind of a matter of where it would be fit in in the public right way Would there be any challenge with the Flowing or clearing of the sidewalks we actually have Post there already. So it's nothing that we can't handle. Yeah Um, and then what would be the estimated timeline? I that I don't know and actually pastor ellen and I were talking about that earlier. Um, I I think it's more on your end of Figuring out whether this is feasible, you know from a logistical standpoint and then I think they kind of take their time in vetting You know the the verbiage to make sure it's it's actually What they want to put up there and I know that they have in fact gone back and revised some older signs that Were put up, you know, and they later realized, you know, that perhaps some of the language wasn't the best And so they want to make sure that they're doing a good job before they go forward with this Okay Well, let's all want to make a motion to approve Second motion by jim second by thomas all those in favor. Please say aye. Hi Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks for working on that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um And then linda and ellen if you can stay for our next item, please. Thank you Okay, so per our agenda review, um We moved j up to say, you know, okay, so this is I put together a memo on here. Um so since we initiated the sort of emergency grants for businesses in response to covet impacts um because We heard by emerging issues that could have weighed on our decision timeline We've also been receiving requests from nonprofit organizations who are seeking more more urgent funding needs So what I've outlined in this memo is a proposal to create Um A parallel process To what we have done for business grants So that nonprofit organizations could apply for some amount of ARPA funding Um You know the suggestion I've made in here is to set aside 50 000 dollars We can be flexible You know, we previously said with the business funding that we would start well And if there was demonstrated need consider increasing it um So we heard from so I had staff include all of the requests that have come in to date however We heard earlier from the the folks at the conglis community of vermont And then we also have our um food shelf leaders here and I wondered if you wanted to speak a bit to The ongoing work you've been doing and the needs you continue to see. Thank you mayor Yes, um, you know, we're saving a lot of clients in mnuski 1 000 people 400 families um 200 babies we get we give diapers to we also give non-food items if you want non-food items um to like staples we shampoo dish liquid razors Things like that as much as we can And we have a rotted sale And it's going to cost about 15 000 dollars We we have some money we've used for what we can do to the church But we don't have those funds for the rotted sales. So I asked if maybe there'd be a grant that could sort of help us We have a contractor ready to go Which is really great. That's a miracle of this day and age of the contractors, but he cares about the church building And he said he'd make a way for us to do this So we were just asking if there was any possible way to help us Because what's happened is the rotted sales been there for years and years. I'm new pastor there I've lived in this community, but I'm new to being a pastor They just let it go and there's water running in our basement just running in the basement So I want to fix it and uh, so he will Fix the sale and reroute the water because the cement's all all been ruined and it needs to be rerouted So it doesn't go into our basement Yeah, and so the food shelf has been run out of the Methodist church for oh my 20 years more than that now Yeah, and you're seeing heavier traffic as well go ahead You know, we've also we've been the food shop has been hugely impacted by COVID Because you know pre-covid we were getting Three to four hundred people a month and now we're talking a thousand Once COVID hit and all those businesses shut down and nobody had jobs. We were getting 1,300 people All of a sudden, I mean we were driving to the food bank We're part, you know partners with the Vermont food bank, which is part of feeding America So we're that that huge umbrella of caring for people um, and it's it's been phenomenally difficult to keep up with the demand and the demand is going way up again because of prices The people are coming that I'm signing up new people or people that I hadn't seen in years are coming back because it's getting so difficult and Homeless, we're getting a lot of homeless people and we approve we decide the health of food bank by helping out the homeless people Yeah, they specifically requested that we take all the homeless and that includes all the ones living just over the line and cold chester in the hotels That's become a huge issue because there's no transportation To the cold chester food shelf. It requires a vehicle to get there and everything is volunteer Just volunteers and help and we can always use more volunteers at the food shelf So thank you for sharing about that. Um, I wanted you all to be in here to speak to some of the needs that Are like emergent and maybe can't wait for the decision-making timing that we have and the rotted sale We will have critters in there. So it's really bad. We've got to fix it Um And before well, so for some process So there's a decision here. Do we want to set aside some ARPA funding for this at this point? Do we want to fulfill any of these? current requests now outside of a like grant program And then the grant program would be available to other service providers who have not already made a direct ask Or we could operate everything through the structure of a grant program That's kind of the process But I do also want to if folks have questions for our food shelf hosts makes way for that as well equity reasons it feels like it should have structure Just to allow for others that may have not taken the opportunity to email the city for support I certainly don't want to delay anything you know Looking at what you've drafted so far. It sounds like it has reasonable Abilities so long as the safe healthy connected commission is able to take that on and meet For review so I do want to address the equity of access issue because it's something that I have thought about like Some people Initiated requests others have not and so they're getting you know, they could potentially get In equitable access to these funds however I personally believe that what we have heard tonight are two pretty urgent needs and If we move forward having staff draft a program at best we approve it in august Then we have to open it for applications Then a commission has to review those applications and then it's september before we can approve anything So it does create a significant delay That's my personal position. So thinking about equity um And I think especially after the arpith listening session that we had on saturday that the food shelf definitely is a very high need But I can appreciate that equity For the small business loans, we initially put aside That full 100,000 I would put forward that we do the same Do that full amount for the nonprofits and in that case we have secured 50 For applicants but have a little bit of room to meet these more urgent needs So that would be my thought. So we would still have that equitable access But due to these needs, um be able to meet the more urgent as well I might be misinterpreting your memo My impression at least initially was that of the hundred that we Reserved 50 of that We'd go towards nonprofits. Is that was that your intent or not? I was a little wishy-washy on her We haven't used That hundred thousand we haven't even approached the 50 right so we could either reallocate 50 from the business grants I don't know if we should do that because we haven't seen what's coming yet Or I was suggesting we set aside only 50 for the nonprofit program Just to align with what the demonstrator need we've seen on the other side. Yeah, and we could increase it later That was my impression with the So I that's why I went lower on this one because we haven't seen that full hundred k need. Yeah, but We have four Letters here. I don't know how many businesses sent in concerns too So I think they're interesting that we do have this more demonstrated need at least right in front of us And I know it's hard to tell without our Due to a lot loss of staff if there was that similar match with the small businesses and I guess for me my preference is I I always feel uncomfortable without structure so um I don't Feel like I would approve anything based on the letters, especially so because some of them are older And the letter for the food shelf looks Older as well. That's essentially an email thread that I had with ellen. Yeah, so I I would feel comfortable with more structure And something a little bit more formal. I don't I am willing to Have something a little bit more rapid than You know the timeline will take her review the formal the overall formal structure for additional Oh, I'm not saying that is articulately as I would like to but Hopefully I'm doing my best And I want to just keep in mind that sometimes the structures that we have are If not actively doing harm passively doing harm So I want to hold that to where there is that importance of structure But I think there is that need to weigh When is that structure? Because it is a structure that has been created by people that has often kept others out and I don't think you Interpreted what I was saying clearly. I'm willing to have some Let's back up something ahead of the additional Let's back up on exactly how to execute this Are we in support in general of an aligned process to give some our profanity to nonprofits earlier than A broader decision-making. Yes. Yeah, I think the answer is okay I thought I heard you trying to make a comment I think that I agree with Bryn that we should have some structure. I understand that Something seemed more emergent Charities I find are more used to asking for money whereas businesses are not so that also could have played into the businesses not They don't know that they can ask they just sell things to make money so I wouldn't want to weigh the fact that they didn't ask meaning that they don't need um All of these charities are very deserving if I think they probably all deserve the money that they're asking for I would say that Because this hasn't been opened up to every charity that exists in Winnowsky That maybe the three that do not exist in Winnowsky we table for a protocol process And the food shelf to be considered sooner um I do have some questions for the food shelf in terms of funding um From feeding america if you're getting anything from colchester If the overarching, I don't know how Methodists work. I'm sorry, but if the overarching diocese has money to give you It seems like those are three funding places as well for yourself Maybe you've pursued those already. I don't know but I'd like to hear more about that Um, but I definitely think we should appropriate appropriate some money Four charities to access at the same time. We're still having our our listening sessions. So I'd hate to start creating talks before we've really analyzed all of that similar to Aurora I met with the library recently and They would really like some of the money and I'm sure there are other groups in Winnowsky that would as well So they'd really like to for us to be I know pushes things down the line But for us to be able to examine the needs for the upper money before We start making a bunch of pots because I think there are endless amounts of pots that we could create I mean, I would like to Highlight that we did this for businesses and we're going to do it for nonprofits and this so we're going to allocate this pot Before we have the information that we need. Yeah, I mean and I think so from my perspective First question we already answered are we going to allocate 50,000? Yes Are we going to have an app? Excuse me an application process? Yes Are we going to also make decisions about funding requests now? It's I think the only remaining question And to my mind I don't see at least the two requests that we've actually had presented to us tonight I would I would have trouble with that application process if those not end up being scored as recommended for funding in the future So I think that's where I we know that there's an emergency that our residents would benefit from its use now And that will still be true in three months when we finally get to approving an application for two months So when we get to approving an application What service of what benefit have we accomplished for our residents if we wait because then we can say we call the process to me, I think that's a I think in this case for the congox community of vermont and for food shelf the Making clear connections to our residents here today and a demonstrated need Will that change after they go through an application process? I guess I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong There probably won't I think it just for example the food shelf is requesting $15,000 And I think the congox is requesting $5,000. So that's already 20 out of that 50 If tomorrow somebody's watched us and they need another I don't know 30 Well to be clear the food shelf did not make a monetary No, I didn't saw a member They asked for any Like I might suggest fulfilling the 5,000 for the congox community and then equivalent 5,000 for food shelf and then work towards This more structured program set that at a 10,000 cap All right, I don't know actually that maybe that's weird I was thinking 10 because that's what the business grants are but if we're allotting five To these folks tonight Maybe they're allowed to apply again for more in the in the life structure program That's an approach. I will say I have chronically heard in every Every bit of ARPA feedback we've received about food security. I know that their work is increasing Which is why I'm advocating for a faster track and going back to The round of listening sessions we did with interpretation in summer 2020 With through the school asons with various language groups The congolese community was particularly hard hit and struggling and I think that's Still playing true today And they are trying to self organize to support themselves Like I feel like that is something we should be getting behind You know, we've heard from these community that we've struggled to connect Make sure they get the information and resources they need and here they are trying to do that for themselves Which they would like to do I kind of feel like it is it is an ARPA response, but it is in service of a larger vision that we have so Given that I think We would also need to develop the program the nonprofit program support so that Because this most recent conversation with food chef was within a couple weeks And this letter from the congolese was from april so they ask Might be different Knowing that this is moving forward. They might be asked for more money So with the program design we may want to do that and ensure like Yes, you were granted this money This immediate you could apply again up to yeah Is there I should ask if there's any public comment actually too Do we still have hope As a reminder, you can use chat or raise hand if you're attending by zoom And I do notice too that turning point center did not doesn't look like they gave a monetary request So that one I definitely would like to see an application for Yeah, they have made an ask in the past Okay, like a two years ago. I don't know And I think This is sort of reflected in the the description of what a program would look like This is a service provider that is almost certainly supporting muski residents, but that's not their primary You know, it's a big organization So I agree with you I would run that through application like This The parties we've heard from this evening are like so on the ground in muski. Yeah Yeah, and I think the the one that I'm wondering what steps is it looks like they're asking for just 1000 Yeah, I think that request is actually like um 2021 It's an ongoing funding like They're trying to build that community support into their their stuff. So I think if moving forward with If This are for related one-time funding requests We could reply to these organizations and say there's this opportunity But we are not considering an ongoing contribution at this time I like that idea Um Because I am a lot of work in our community as well Sorry mayor you did a request for public comment. We have daisy here with us Sure. Welcome daisy Uh, hi, it's actually steven. Uh, hi everyone steven steven berbeco. Thanks for predicting my comment I'm very excited that city council is considering Opening up this program or actually creating a similar program for nonprofits I think that it's very important to support our community in this way. I'm excited That there's already so much interest In participating in a program like like there's a grant program like this Um, I don't know if city council is aware that there are 75 501 c3s in wanouski And I suspect that the vast majority of them Weren't aware That they even had the opportunity to send a letter to the city council To ask if they could be included in the small business grant program And so as city council considers The options before it, uh, I would encourage You to please consider The importance of equity of access to funds like this I and That there very well may be Some community organizations that weren't aware Of this meeting and conversation That may want to participate in a grant program for our performance. Thanks again for for allowing my public comment Thanks, steven and and just to be clear. I'm certain none of them did This is This is just being presented as an as a new potential program In response to having These other these ad hoc requests So very much understand that We are considering two requests that no one maybe Had the same opportunity to provide but um It sounds to me like we are on board with approving The $50,000 allocation to the profit program With the potential to expand it like we did with business the business program um and then award $5,000 each to the wunuski food shelf and the congluse community of vermont Should they choose to apply for additional funding? That would be like taken into consideration like they wouldn't Get the full amount after I'm comfortable with all of that. Yep. Yeah, is this clear to staff? Yeah Okay Do I have a motion to approve the non-profit funding requests as just described? Second motion by jim second by brinn all those in favor. Please say aye. Bye Motion carries. Thank you all. Thank you and thank you I'll I'll take a five-minute recess for anyone who wants to leave and also because I need to use the loop So we will reconvene at 745 I'm reconvening us My gavel is back So we are on the old item c. This is an event permit application for the annual wolf scart air out Is there rayon with us? I don't think so elaine. Do you want to? Sure brief overview. This is this has happened before here Yeah Hang on one minute Yep, so staff has received another application from wolf scart. I'm just reading the the cover of the mosa you can zone out This is for beminis of the public To hold the annual wolf scart air out event on friday august 5th It's a gathering of high-end car shows and it's Proposed to be held on when new ski falls way, which I understand is the normal venue That would require a street closure Between cascade way and the circulator from one eight one p.m. One p.m. To 10 p.m staff don't have concerns they do They are proposing to park some on the rotary asked for a plan for that But staff can manage that so this is really about the street closure, which is city council purview. So Pretty much it any questions from council I have one question, but I don't know if Rain will need to answer it. I noticed that they said the Staff will do crossing guards. Did they mean their staff or our staff? They would need to mean their staff That's what I was hoping That was the other question I had. Yep, thanks and So it's um, I was a little confused with the uh application form It sounds like they're close requesting to close off when new ski falls way And they're also requesting to use the rotary Yes, that's my understanding. Okay. All right. It was Initially it seemed like only when new ski falls way and then I was I was working through I was like, okay they want All both spaces. Yeah. Yes. Okay. I think it's a little tricky because our Applicate we don't have that space in our event permit. So they were making do there. Okay And Because I come from the solid waste world It's always funny when it says there will be no garbage. There's always garbage So I our our staff Available to do a collection at the end or At the end of that event or I don't know that there will be significant amounts I don't know that it'd be any more than the farmers market per se, you know Yeah, they don't provide extra trash. Yeah, so um, just thinking about Trying to plan a collection that Monday morning or whatever Um, John isn't here for me to ask what the normal procedure is. I would think so They would they would expect that especially since it's a recurring event. Um chief potty Do you have any perspective given that you you've been here a while? Yeah, so Walker's Been here a few times. Um, typically there is little to no Um waste from them And I think what staff said on many fronts, um that you know these organizers you need to be prepared to For the road closure for cleanup Kind of returning returning the street to open condition. Okay, um due to limited staff And we'll see how that goes Okay, thank you Thanks John All right Any public comment on this item? Okay caring no concern. Well, no significant concern Does anyone want to make a motion to approve the event permit for wolf's car hero? Second motion by thomas second by brinn all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye motion carries So old item d we have an appointment for the inclusion and belonging commission Jenny you want to introduce I don't believe they're on the zoomie Yes, thank you So we have sent this Out to our commission chairs the application for ariana kano to be a regular Equity ambassador for the inclusion and belonging commission So I received feedback from all the chairs who Overwhelmingly approved for being added Excellent council comments Who would like to make a motion to approve? Second motion by jim second by aurora all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye Motion carries. Thank you And we have uh old item e on for approval a planning commission appointment Who I believe is on the zoom line I believe that's correct Yes, thank you. Um, I'll do a brief introduction here for this item Uh, we have one vacancy on the planning commission currently for a position of alternate that was left by one of our Other commission members step down from the planning commission email after many years of dedicated service Uh, the chair of the planning commission and I interviewed mr. Daily last week. I believe it was To spend some time with him talk to him about his interests and whatnot and uh We both agreed the chair and I both agreed that this would be a good addition to the planning commission So as I mentioned, mr. Daily is on the zoom line as well But for you tonight Would you like to introduce yourself and say a word or two counter? Oh, yes. Hi everybody. Yeah, I apologies. I'm actually on a train right now. So I don't want to disturb my fellow passengers But yes, thank you Okay, cool. Thank you Thank you for your engagement. Are there any specific questions from council? Would someone like to make a motion to approve? So moved second Motion by jim second by aurora all those in favor. Please say aye. All right That's it. Are you abstaining? Yeah Motion carries. Thank you very much. Eric and connor. Thank you All right, so let's invite up chief audie again for the update on regional dispatch and fund balance requests Good evening again. Um, so this is a request. Um, I'm just looking at on my phone so the cover sheet and then the subsequent memo from The city manager police chief and fire chief angela in regards to kind of We tried to give a brief history for the new council members of kind of where we've where we've come where we are and where Regional dispatch has kind of traveled over the last year or two. Um, you know, there's been significant delays with Covid they've continued, you know, just prolonged the timelines In this reserve fund balance request is Really trying to close that end gap of three hundred thousand dollars to complete the The initial capital and startup funds that were identified through Consulting firm that was hired Um several years ago now, um, it seems to uh to get You know to get things started So willing to answer other questions. Um, I don't know what Well, I'm excited to finally see forward motion here Uh, this has been underway for a very long time. I knew this was coming eventually so Thank you for the update tonight. Yeah, I would say, you know, I think we all agree that we're With kind of this approval. There this is You know, kind of Winooski's commitment to continue in this direction Um, you know, at some point it will be a it will become a certain to start to Provide services and and I think we're close to that as we as we continue these these incremental um approaches and You know, as it says in there to um on the next agenda is to talk about hiring a executive director and try to Transition from planning to operations. Um, there'll be a lot of work to There to do Many in a lot of that work the managers aren't opposed to do Um, and quite frankly, we don't want the police chiefs and fire chiefs doing that We need we need a neutral party to to kind of lead us through that. Um, so We're close to that Any questions from council Jim the So if all five communities say yes, this is a price tag for Winooski if Four of the communities say yes and one says no, there's a need to figure out the how to cover the additional costs if That additional costs can't be covered anywhere else that will come back to municipalities for an additional request Is that the expectation? So I would view that and advocate that we would have two choices at that point We would either further our commitment or we would bow out if you will And there would be some sort of refund in in the commitment that you're going to do tonight That's kind of the discussion That's been had I don't want to tell you it's a full refund, but it would be some sort of Refund that happens I All indicators right now or that all five communities have committed to it and You know, we'll know next week kind of where all communities stand And then I have one other question which was um How how soon will we be facing a loss in police department administrative support? Kind of the next step number two for Winooski if we vote yes and all the municipalities vote yes So I I think we when I say we the city manager police chief myself have met I think you know with this Yet another commitment by you on behalf of Winooski. I think really starts to Push us to a timeline where we identified that And this is certainly something that chief hebert and the manager Recognize as as a pinch point for Winooski That we need to find an alternative way to to do the the admin piece I don't think anyone's sure where that land jet right, so This is there's two go-no-go points sort of right now. It's the capital and startup funds The next one is whether we but purchase the services If the city decides to purchase the services, it's by date certain That date is when it would switch you over and we would lose admin support so with this timeline that I presented in here as being Estimated, you know, it's not projected. It's just estimated. We don't even have staff right yet, right for the regional dispatch There is potentially time for you to decide To budget for admin support so that when it transitions potentially in july of 24 then You change it over when you have someone to fill in on the admin side in police department But that's the you know, obviously you haven't decided that yet But that's the plan that would that would work And so if the transition was july it'd be like an f y 25 budget impact most likely Right. Oh, actually, I guess it would be Do I have that wrong july 2024 Or june 2024 is what I was meaning to say I mean july 2023 so f y 24. Oh, so in our next budget conversation. Yes, right Yeah, it's not something we can Choose to go and then try to It's got to be flopped. Right. I guess my question is are we gonna be It doesn't sound like this will be a need within the f y 23 budget This is the first this the administrative support cost is going to be f y 24 budget question Correct. Yes. And that would be ongoing Yes Other questions I have so many but I'll table them You may have a price meeting with staff I I will accept There are a lot of operational unknowns and Having a full list of them now is good Um Any questions comments from the public Do I have a motion to approve The fund balance request for regional dispatch Motion by brin second by thomas all those in favor, please say aye. Hi motion carries. Thank you. Thank you Okay Now we welcome eric back up to introduce the Unified land use and development regulations priority housing incentives Yes All right, thank you very much So included with your packet tonight are draft amendments to the unified land use and development regulations regarding priority housing project incentives This was something that the planning commission has been working on for about the last six months or so They've they've held several public hearings on this and have ultimately ended up with the draft that is before you tonight So this these amendments include changes to the land use table in section 2.4 The parking standards in section 4.12 A new section on incentives for priority housing Included in section 5.14 and then some additional definitions to support this these changes The draft I sent this out to you all a week or so ago in advance just to see you'd have some extra time with it I did receive several questions and comments back from Deputy Mayor Duncan and also from the councilor renner. So happy to go over those items as well But really what I wanted to do tonight was give you all a chance to review the information Ask any questions you might have and with the potential to consider Scheduling a public hearing for for the these amendments So with that in mind, I'm happy to do this in whatever order you all are comfortable with whether we just walk through The document and I can hit hit on the questions as they come up or you can ask questions as they come up As well or another process I know I would like to hear the questions, but however that's integrated doesn't matter to me Do you want to Direct respond on the questions are received or do you want to go section by section? Do this give a high level summary of the section and then But we'll be easier for you that might be easier to do the latter one So why don't we do that? Okay, so we'll start off because because some of these are pretty pretty straightforward I think some of the the amendments So shouldn't take a lot of time the first change is going to be included in section 2.4 with the land use table And really this is the addition of two notes in the residential zoning districts note number nine under the residential a district for two unit dwellings and residential sorry note number 10 under the Residential a b and c under the multi unit dwellings What these notes are doing is referencing the ability for Projects in these zoning districts to be configured in multi unit Dwellings if they're done as part of a planned unit development consistent with the priority housing incentives So there are specific standards outlined that that need to be met in order for multi unit buildings to To be constructed in these in these zoning districts So if those are not being met then these districts would not be permitted to have multi unit buildings and to council renter's question um The question was asked about why we don't allow multi unit Dwellings in these in these zoning districts currently. Is that generally what the question was? Yeah, so Uh, I don't know if I have a good answer for that question because this is The the land use table has been like this since I've started with the city my guess would be however that when The change was made to incorporate the gateway zoning district and add the additional density on the corridors That there was a decision made to scale back some of the density that would be permitted in the residential areas So that would be what I would guess happened and why the we don't permit multifamily in the residential districts currently But that's only a it's only a guess In order to change that would that be through planning commission or charter? So yes, that would be through the planning commission It would it would go through this same this same type of a process where we would uh It would start with the planning commission to review the amendment and then They would hold public hearing and it would come forward to you all as well Um, thank you. Yep. Absolutely So that's the first kind of big change The second change you'll will come in under section 4.12 with our parking regulations And again, this change is done in response to Something that actually came out of the one of the recommendations recommendations that actually came out of the housing commission Was to eliminate the additional half space requirement for dwelling units in the non-residential Districts that have three or more bedrooms. So right now we require an extra half space of parking which ultimately becomes an additional whole space So that uh language is is being proposed for elimination as well. So it would just be one space per unit Regardless of the size of the dwelling unit and then one space for every four units in increments of four So then the next section is going to be the addition of section 5.14 under the specific use standards Um, so to deputy mayor Duncan's first question. There's a reference that's actually incorrect Uh, there was a reference on the last page of this section under part e I believe it is there was it there's a reference still to an older section 5.14 f which Uh, which has been removed. So that citation should actually Be section 5.14 e 1a So that was the first item second question was related to the the language on using the HUD area median family income to set The cost of the unit the affordability cost and The way HUD does their costing for affordability is based off the number of bedrooms which equates to a household size And so the question was and i'm gonna paraphrase of it here. So please correct me if i'm not Saying this correctly for you Is that if a a unit could be built That's assuming a five person family But then a four person family wants to buy the house would the cost then be have to change Is that am i getting your question? I mean i could read it directly if you would prefer So what i'm imagining is i'm trying i'm the developer trying to put together a project and i'm saying i can have Three bedrooms in here and i can say that there's going to be four people in that unit That's the same and do four bedroom i can have a five bedroom i can have five people living in that um, and so i look at the HUD area median family income for a five person family and it's um It has to be purchased or rented at 30 to be affordable to that income level and So i go ahead with my project i get the incentive and i have a slightly cheaper project per unit because i've I'm gonna eventually be able to rent at this cost or sell at this cost but then someone with two kids like a four person family buys or rents that house they're Whether they can afford it. I'm trying to just let down but basically The cost that would have to be sold at then has to go down because otherwise it would exceed the 30 percent threshold The cost that has to be rented at would go down because the actual family occupying the space would now need to Have a they would have a lower median income as defined by HUD And so they'd have to pay lower rent in order for it to stay below 30 of their cost So I guess that's the question is like did we need the incentive is the incentive working Kind of unit staying compliance If you have if the developer assume a certain Family size for the occupying at the end Yeah, so there was actually some language in a previous draft that Kind of got to this the specific issue The planning commission did recommend that it be removed because it wasn't really It wasn't adding anything to the to the specific text But generally speaking the way that this would be interpreted and the way that this would be enforced is that the household The the size of the dwelling would establish the cost It would be 30 percent of whatever the size of the dwelling was so if it was a three bedroom a four bedroom a five bedroom That would be used to set the The size of the household that could afford that unit. So whether A household that matched that same number occupied the unit is That's not really the I don't want to say that's not of a concern But that's not what we're we're not going to adjust the price based off of who the potential occupant is The so so in that same scenario a House that has a bedrooms the bedroom count would be sufficient for a family of five A family of eight could move into that and it wouldn't they wouldn't have to pay more So it would still it would work in either direction So someone with a smaller household side size could occupy that that same unit But it would remain at the 30 for the for the size of household. It was designed to accommodate And so as far as certifying affordability They'll only so whether it's a three person family or four person family or ten person family They would only ever certify the affordability against There are three bedrooms correct and that should be for a four person family Correct. That doesn't let you share double up, right? So like I think they do for a certain number of bedrooms and then after that It's only single occupancy But it's yeah, so the certification would be based on the design of the dwelling unit Um, so the next question was actually also related to some of the qualifying piece. There's uh, basically under part d one there's uh, a b and c The question was related to b and c the language is very similar in both But it's really so they are kind of doing the same thing But one is to it's really more for clarification that if The project is owned by an affordable housing provider Some of the certifications are not necessary because They're if they're already doing those certifications any way There's not there's not a need for the additional certification but we wanted to make it clear that if The building was going to be privately owned When units turned over there needed to be some third party that has the expertise Involved with making sure that the certifications are done to to verify the the household incomes for the for the unit But but b has a second sentence that waves the provision if it's being managed by uh That's correct and that way and that would allow for a That would allow for a a private developer to manage some of the building or some of the units As market rate and then they could designate the rest of the units the affordable units to be managed by a Third party basically if they so choose So they could just that's they could designate a portion of the project correct our project for management by Potentially Do we see those models in vermont currently? That is a good question. I don't Not that i'm aware of It doesn't mean but yeah All right So I think the next questions come in On later pages, so i'll get to those here in a moment But basically what we've done here is created we've drafted language That would incentivize priority housing basically being units with three or more bedrooms or housing that was affordable We specifically used the 100 percent of the of the The of the median family income for that affordability level um Part of that was done because the that's not to say that it can't be affordable to somebody making less than that But that would be the the the top end. We didn't want to exceed that So a lot of the programs that are out there are only They are only eligible for for If it's at 80 percent of area median income So this would this would allow for some additional Affordability, but I think there's also been expressed that there is a need for some of that What's what's generally termed as the missing middle housing? So we're not looking for we are looking for affordability But we we we've made the decision to bump it up a little bit In that regard. So basically there's uh qualifications that need to be included as we just discussed for the certification of the Units themselves to make sure that they are maintaining the affordability It's it was set at a 20-year affordability level And that actually the question From deputy mayor Duncan again was what if the project raises rents beyond the affordability threshold within that 20-year time frame If that if that would happen It would be we would basically treat it like any other violation of the zoning regulations and issue them a notice of Violation and proceed through the normal channels that are outlined in the in the regulations currently so That's that's the process that would would play out for for Units that are found to not be meeting that that affordability threshold And I'm sorry. I don't know the the details of that Proceeding would that apply to the entire like if there are penalties assessed? Is it applied the entire product is the entire project you've got a compliance? Or is it just that unit it would probably be the entire project because the project is what gets the permit Or it would it would really depend on how it was permitted, but generally speaking it would be the project Yep, because that's what generated the ability to have that's correct. Yes. Yes uh, let's see so we Yeah, so we we included incentives both in the uh for For affordable units that would be built in our Residential districts through the plan unit development process And then we also created some incentives for units that would be in our what are what I'm typically call our non-residential districts So the gateway the downtown core the central business district that are not our standard residential districts But do allow for residential development. So the incentive in the residential districts is like as I mentioned with the plan unit development and What we did was allow for an incentive to to to cluster the buildings or sorry cluster the units in in multi-unit configurations if if at least half of the project was Were to meet the the three plus bedroom requirement so I may have just misspoke Sorry, the entire project has to meet that No, that's not right either. I'm sorry. I'm getting myself confused here because we changed this on several occasions as well 50 percent of the excuse me 50 percent of the of the dwellings in the project would need to meet The three or more bedroom configuration The density incentive is for a hundred percent of the project so If the if Half of the project meets has three or more bedrooms Then the the units can be configured based on the zoning district where they are either in two Sorry, either in four unit buildings or in six unit buildings Um, then there's another incentive for a density bonus where a hundred percent of the project would need to be Both affordable and have units with three or more bedrooms So every unit would need to have both of those items And then in those instances The project would be eligible for one edition would be eligible for a density bonus based on the zoning district where it's located Uh, and that's outlined on the last page of this section So there was a question again from deputy mayor duncan about this is that uh with the The production rate of the bonus units And that it would only become functional if the If three or more lots were combined so as a real quick overview on planning unit developments the way that they typically function is that You have a piece of land and then you take the the total square footage of that land to determine the number of Lots that you could create from that property Based on the minimum lot size So in the residential c disc, sorry in the residential a district We require a minimum of 10,000 square feet for a for a lot If you had an acre of land That's about 43,500 square feet of land. You could get four building lots out of that so For each new building lot, that'd be three new building lots in this instance. You would be able to do Uh, a half a unit for each of those lots So you'd have the ability to do one and a half More dwelling units With the provision being that it get rounded up to the nearest whole unit So basically in that situation If you did a planned unit development on an acre of land in the residential a district You'd have the ability to do two additional units as bonus if the entire project that you proposed was affordable And three or three or more bedrooms per unit And then those bonus units could be Whatever configuration you wanted to make them in And they would not need to meet the affordability in the That was another question that the reason that why why we did that was to provide a little bit more of an incentive for the developers because if we're getting an entire project that has Affordable and three plus bedrooms We wanted to be able to give them something that they could potentially recoup some of their their investment back and make it more Enticing for them to to go that route Interject please because a big part of the discussion around the planning developments was and if you can confirm this No matter what it's built in the configuration the lot coverage requirements don't change. That's correct Yes Yeah, and it's it's there was a lot of discussion at the planning commission related to the bonus Uh the bonus unit provision and it's really important to keep in mind that regardless of whether or not The project the project still would need to meet all of the dimensional standards that we have so lot coverage the setback requirements Plan unit developments are considered major subdivisions. So they have to go through a full site plan review The full subdivision review process in front of the development review board as a sketch plan as a minor and then a major Sorry a preliminary and then a final plan or a combined preliminary final depending on the complexity. So there There's no relief from the the lot coverage requirement Through that process. So it's possible that even the base development may not be able to build to its fullest potential Based on the number of units that it can create as an example The the new development on molly's way. There's nine units that have been built there Based on the the square footage of land that they have they they had the ability to do 12 units Is what they would pencil out to but they didn't have enough land to stay under the lot coverage requirement So they could only do nine total units there with all the other amenities and everything else they were trying to put in so So while there is a bonus provision, it may be that it's not able to be Met because of the lot coverage requirements. So that's not to say it can't be met. It just would the the uh The design of the project will will need to be Need to be taken into into consideration I have a clarifying question. Sure So with the I think the presumption if i'm understanding correctly is The incentive is for essentially single-family homes To as the bonus just as As the incentives are laid out the vision is to have plan new developments that are predominantly either Um Duplexes or single-family homes. Yeah, so it's not just gateway Yeah, essentially what i'm getting at is we're we're not creating a situation where we're going to see Three or four story multi like condominiums condo complexes within Correct. Yeah, okay, right. Yeah, because the most they'd be able to do The the most they'd be able to do in any one building would be six total units In the residential c district the maximum height for the district is still in place, which is 35 feet The the lot coverage requirement is still in place, which is 50 percent of the lot in that district So the the dimensional standards are I think you're going to dictate a lot of that. Okay, great. Thank you. Yep, absolutely Uh, and then the last incentive that we are offering is for as I mentioned for those non residential districts is with parking minimums And so in this instance, we basically said that uh any unit That is is included in one of our non residential districts They basically would get relief from the parking So they would up to up to 20 but no more than four the units would be exempt from the minimum parking standards So basically what that amounts to is again depending on the size of the project We're looking at about four four or so parking spaces that wouldn't be necessary As part of the project, but it wouldn't also Exclude those units from having available parking on site And that's specifically Included here as well is that those units still have to have access to parking that is on site But the developer can choose to not include the parking for those units if they so desire so that was the that was the incentive that we identified for the Non residential zoning districts and then as I mentioned just some additional Some additional definitions to include these are included in both section 514 But also proposed to be included in the definition section just so there's some redundancy there Um, and I believe that covered all of The questions that I received So let's open it up for more Um, was this looked at within equity loans? That's a good question It came up in conversations And these were the most well attended public hearings. I've experienced and I I think a lot of our residents brought that up okay Just we're not creating any unintentional barriers. I guess I don't think so Okay, because most of what we're outlining here is all incentive based So we're not requiring anybody to do any of this and we're not Excluding folks from doing it as well I should also mention to that point. I did ask our legal counsel to review the draft as well And he had no concerns with with what was included there was a lengthy discussion about wanting to make sure that These incentives didn't create like a different class of housing so like to erics point about your you Units get you maybe A reduced parking minimum, but we're not saying that those units don't get parking like that sort of thing Okay, thank you. Yeah, there was As I mentioned that we we did have three three public hearings on this with the planning commission and in many cases Not in all necessarily, but in many cases the comments from the public were We're more to the fact that we need to do something to get to get these types of housing units built Rather than what they might look like or some of the design and Just the the orientation of the buildings themselves It was more just the fact that there's a need for the multi bedroom units right now in the city so There's definitely there's definitely a lot of public interest. I would say from this as the mayor mentioned I think also having an incentive in The non residential and the residential is important So we're saying we're trying to develop this kind of housing in all of our neighborhoods and not Right now. It's mostly just happening in gateways where major development is. Yeah Can I ask a clarifying question? I'm Just trying to make sure I understand so this is in Section 514 d a I was just wondering if you could Speak to the minimum of 20 years Sure. Yeah, that we actually did have some discussion about that at at several of our meetings and we landed on 20 years Um, mostly I think because that's that was kind of identified as the general I don't want to say useful life, but the the general lifespan of a unit before major modifications need to be made So that would be That was kind of a good cut-off that we we felt would would make sense to to kind of then potentially reset the unit if it was gonna Remain affordable Or if it needed to be or if it could change the market rate that that that would be a good time for something to To be done at least to to re-evaluate the the property Okay, that's what I thought what is stopping People once they hit that 20 mark from kicking out their current tenants Without technical cause And just upping the price That's a good question. Um I'm not sure I have a good answer for that So, uh, I mean we did discuss different different options for the affordability time horizon Um, that's definitely something you all as as council can can choose to to to visit and or to revisit I should say if you want to see that as a longer time frame Yeah I was going to say I think this might point to uh different need to for other protections Yeah, so what I was going to say is The consensus was not to I think I don't know if it started this way or it was discussed like Lifetime, but the needs of our community could change right maybe at some point We have overdeveloped affordable housing. It's not getting full because everyone we've saw the wealth disparities, which is unlikely, but um So having some flexibility there would be important We are also going to have a conversation at our august meeting about The other ways you approach that through like of Like evictions protections, um Rent stability what have you things that we actually need state help with Like this is a a mechanism within local control that we can actually press on to impact housing those sorts of protections By and large the authority doesn't sit with us at this like we need permission from the legislature So that is something that we'll be discussing soon Yes, I just want to flag it especially with this that it Kind of drives home that issue Yeah, because I personally like I think 20 years is great for re-evaluating our needs But also shouldn't just be an open door to say you're out. Yep Yes, yeah thinking about our what happened at 300 million When those protections aren't in place So this will kind of be losing the protections were there and then our loss which could really put people in a dangerous spot. Yeah Thank you. Yes, absolutely other questions You were thorough in your email I think the only thing that's just kind of unresolved from the things I'd raised. Um, I think making it clear that the affordability criteria relate to The bedroom count and making it clear exactly how you're going to compute definitely What what the thought with the ideal fan not the ideal it's the wrong word, but what the like model's family is for that Is three bedrooms as four people or five people? I don't know which one you can do We're making it clear that it's going to be based on the unit configuration And how many people could be simply be in that that unit? That's going to drive the hemp the h.a. I don't find the HUD or any family income Because right now when I read this I think it as long as I have declaring that a unit It's going to be affordable to some family size under Sure, and that's like I said there was language that did discuss that previously that the planning commission I think at their last public hearing actually recommended that it be removed so I can look to see What we would do what we would need to do to add that back in and if that would if that would be enough of a change to Require it go back to the the report be updated by the planning commission It may not because it was included in a previous version of the language that went through public hearing so I may have to just double check on that first, but I think an important point to clarify because it'll also affect how you determine whether project stays in compliance over time right Will that and will that be beneficial for like the drb review or any other Consistency over time It may I mean it may help to just have it in there so that have the language included so that it is clear about how the The units are being how the affordability is being calculated based on the bedroom count and not the family size itself. So Okay, and that might be helpful I see it as also a way to Encourage some efficiency and how people search for housing and that you don't If you know that the price is going to be set based on the number of units and you choose to add it You want an office, right? You can and you could afford it like you may choose not to because it It'll be at a higher cost. Yeah, I could see the benefit I like the idea of having switching gears the because I kind of questioned the Bonus unit is not being included as part of having to meet those requirements of bedroom needed and Affordability criteria. I think it's important to consider one of our housing goals is economic integration in this community and that While I don't think that previous assessments of how economic integration is or is not working in our housing supply I do think that this is a way to make sure that if it's good for the project that works for the project We can actually greater integration for households in our community. See we aren't stratifying where people can live Yeah, that actually did come up with the planning commission was that by allowing the bonus unit to be Whatever the the developer wanted would potentially create a more mixed income Development in some of these situations Is there any public comment? Are we Within the realm of being able to call public hearing at our august meeting if we so choose Do we have enough time to do that? We do actually yes I I did look at the calendar and I believe I can get the ad out if I can get the ad out this week Which there should still be time based on the free press's schedule We should be able to meet the the advertisement requirements Would someone like to make a motion to set a public hearing for august 8th for the priority housing incentives? Second motion by jim second by aurora all those in favor, please say I Motion carries. Do you need anything else? Um, I don't think that I do. I think that's all that I need Thank you all very much. Thank you for the walkthrough All right, so we are on to Discussion approval the strategic vision goal update for economic vitality Yep, so we've got your usual update in your packets There's quite a bit of language there. I think this is our first one under the new strategy and parties So I'll just summarize for anyone listening that there were one two three Must-dos and one two three four five recommended actions that council agreed on And the ones under staff control are progressing pretty well One big one that you just dealt with which is the first recommended one or under land use code incentives for housing The ones that we have Uh A little bit more challenges are actually in the must-dos working communities challenge grant objectives, which have to do with equity Uh loss of a staff person and needing a regroup was a big part of that And then redevelopment of 17 abnaki way also known as lot d or a 70 is um Has funding constraints. So that's uh Quite a bit out of not all entirely in our control If you have any questions about specifics Yep, thanks for the question so we are undergoing a training series at the leadership team level There are six sessions total. We just finished session four Actually, I need to ask you all if you can commit to At this point, it's a two-day training. I don't know how many hours that is I'd ask for that clarification The next step is was designed to be at the city council level There's also then we have to figure out how we Orient our teams to that are you know at each department level and I do feel there needs to be some level of training initiated at that level before we fill the position because the last director suffered harm From our department members So there needs to be something that we're acting on there's some orientation So that we're not setting up that person for failure or our own our current team up for failure I am anticipating that we I think we'll feel ready to Re-hire that sometime this calendar year, but I I'm not ready to tell you now when that is We've still got work to do internally And thanks for making sure that's Been discussed Pleasure This more my understanding is they need more funding to be able to do that and they were counting on Um Bill and the cat mentioned last time the develop one of the developer Developing partners mentioned last time they were counting on the Vermont community development program money in september to be able to do that There are some Conversations i'm trying to have about that timeline to see if that That's a possibility or not Much more minor question way finding did that include new signage for the library? I'd have to ask john that question. I'm not sure That was going to be my question too You can see it now. Yeah, yeah, or yeah, or if where it is on that list of priorities at least that was kind of a timeline I will follow up I know that the signage isn't done yet So we'll have to see if the library was part of the okay. I did see one of the pool ones. It looks very good I can help partially answer some of that question for you all we were talking about earlier today as you know the Um, the way finding basically starts in the downtown garage from parking Um, and then each additional piece of that would be phased after John rusher and I talked about it a little bit today. Um, the next piece is uh possibly a question the if Um, you know, we can budget for the next phase is Next year possibly next fiscal year Uh, and then we'll have to meet I think a staff to prioritize You know departmentally which uh, which facilities in which uh, which area is to to prioritize Thanks, Paul. I get asked about way finding a lot So For process of phasing, I think it would be beneficial to do what we can to keep that in mind for FY 24 25 In uh, recommend a develop plan to execute tasks managed by the currently vacant CEDAW position In grant applications that says one possible the city the city manager with relevant staff will write these capacity or specialty dictates Excuse me applications will be contracted out with everything that you have on your plate What is the likelihood that you're able to write these grant applications and put all the work into those? I don't know It depends. This is the big hole that is being left for sure And there isn't a good plan because it's a matter of capacity So this is the only possible configuration And um, it might not be viable because I'm gonna ask you probably don't have the money to contract that work out Well, we had yeah We might have we will this is a stupid way to plan but The longer we take to to fill the housing position We will have that much A salary savings from the planned CEDAW position to spend on And that you would not plan for that But it is definitely going to take a little time still to hire for housing So that would be the this year the The pot the small pot. Gotcha That was going to be my question is are you using vacancy savings to contract this? Something Yeah, I would have to do more of an assessment of what grants are likely to come up. I mean, I know the ones that we have now, but it's You know the the grants that might come up. Do we even have capacity to deliver on them? I don't know so it's a Chicken and egg there Yeah, we're much closer than we were I we do have a draft scope and I'm starting to vet it with some folks so and Staff has looked at it. Um, but there's some external folks that I wanted to take a look at it, too um I talked to burlington CEDAW They actually had a A position that overlapped with this one. So that was useful for let local perspective be talking to cef liner next Um, I can't remember if there was a third person that was going to look at it Um, yeah, so it's it's underway. I'm hopeful I can have it in front of you in august does saying on a grant conversation a little bit more Does vlct or cc rpc have any Supports for something like that in particular For grant writing of I haven't heard of that. No Rpc would be the the closest I think but you know that that would be like a case-by-case basis And one final question is actually at the very last the reviewing retail cannabis applications I just noticed that it cut off at the end. So I wanted to make sure we didn't there's nothing missing Oh, yeah, it ends with just the word and in the situation Oh, um, eric did is there anything left off there? Just wanted to be sure um I feel like the last time we talked about the expanding downtown designation. There was a lack of clarity about If progress had been made there Is that no now sounded like that was potentially gonna See it like see if downtown monieski would be willing to take that on and I think that might be part of the renegotiated contract At least that's what seemed to be the conversation at our retreat That sounds familiar to me. Yeah, you know that you mentioned it. Yeah Any other questions about this progress report? All right, would you like us to approve this elaine? Uh, if that is your normal process, sure Well, usually we just listen to them, but it says discussion approval. So oh, that was my fault then I would someone like to make a motion to be a discussion this update So I can motion by thomas second by brin all those in favor. Please say aye. Hi motion carries. We're accepting it Thank you Okay, so now we are on to discussion approval a reserve request for staff bonuses Yes, so we're requesting to or I am requesting two sets of one-time bonuses One what you are were aware of it was negotiated during the ask me or public works contract renewal The total for that comes to 10,233 and 50 cents The other set is for staff who took on additional work due to staff vacancies Some who fall in this category already receive bonuses. This list takes care of the others That total comes to 22,760 $766 and 50 cents Although it's listed as coming from unassigned fund balance Both will be more than covered by a staff vacancy. We are not filling this fiscal year So those savings will end up in reserves Questions concerns I will say I I support this for sure I think We often we always have vacancies And so I think I think there's a different threshold that occurred over the last year plus With the roles that were being filled and the amount of them. So I just want to make it clear that like Being down a man on a team doesn't make always Like doesn't always lead to this outcome Yes, thank you But I yeah, I mean I Interpret this as one time special case special scenario um, and not Something that would be your a year over year occurrence newly noted I mean unless I'm gonna say that Please don't But it would be understandable if that yes Special it's a special scenario Hope um, yeah, I hope so Any other council questions comment? I'm I don't know if I want to raise this but given that it seems to be exceptional and particular to the What's happened over the last two years. I wonder if this is something that we should consider for our funding instead of reserve use I don't know if that's a Potential but I see these as COVID impacts to be honest in terms of why Certain I'll comment that if you wanted to State that in the motion that it would clarify that however just a reminder that your ARPA funds are Assigned fund balance now But the reasoning is is still you know could be stated What I just said So I would move that well of course can we do that can we do this separately? I don't think so Approved that we can't do two motions on this one item It was a request not that It's set up that way, but can we just do what we approved with the contract and then the second Oh, sure. I don't see why you couldn't you know, okay? So first I would move that we approved the 10,322 50 you have asked me bonus pay Second yeah Motion by Jim second by Dora all those in favor, please say aye. I'm motion carries. All right. Here's a fun one. So now I would also move that we Approve the use of unassigned reserve balance of in the order of 22,699 dollars and 25 cents As outlined in the memo recognizing that this is a unusual one-time Bonus given due to part of chips from COVID second Motion by Jim second by Brynn all those in favor, please say aye. Hi motion carries Um I will say the ask me bonus is technically also because of that that is true too because it was inflation driven But it doesn't matter if you don't want to say that Well, and I think that I mean the contract negotiations He says that reason but there are other reasons behind it The bonus is structured versus the percentage increases like a yes But it was more I felt it was more of a package where it's these bonuses are really about vacancy But your point is that's true. Okay We could just combine it again and make it also It's fine. Thank you Let's move on Um, so we're on to our last item here the city manager performance review process. So Our lustrious managers uh agreement includes a 90 day review and I am proposing here in this memo that we use The same review tool that we have used historically for the annual manager's review Um, it involves members of the council doing a rating Based on competencies of the role Those competencies have been updated In concert with our hr and elaine to include specific equity Measures which were not there before And Then there is also a narrative only tool for leadership team members um So the idea would be that council leadership team complete their evaluation tools and then i'm seeking a volunteer to collect those responses aggregate them um removing You know leadership names councilmen, you know Deidentifying them um, and then sharing back with with council and with our manager for The actual review discussion um The goal here is to be like a progress check ahead of that 90 day period and Have some discussions about moving forward We're not like trying to set specific goals out of this And we would revisit the process again at the the one-year mark Are there any questions? I'm not sure the I guess if this is best practice, but I was wondering about the kind of I don't know a 360 review for elaine to provide some um Narrative to but I don't know. We haven't done that historically um Let's talk about that at the end of this review and see if we want to bake it into the annual I worked for you Well, uh, I would expect that it would be a discussion. So maybe my comments would be after You know, I heard what everybody had to say then I could Comment on that. Okay. Sounds good. I just want to yeah make sure that you have your voice Appreciate that Yeah, so that I should clarify that too in the end We have an executive session meeting to discuss You know where we're at and where we're looking forward to We also warned an executive session tonight just in case in case any questions get to into the weeds, but um I see this has a Form and I'm thinking about during the public public meeting with the city managers we had a Um Survey monkey set up. Is it possible to If you want to build that Well, does the city have I can build it does the city have an account? Paul Historically the count the volunteer counselor dumped it on to the spreadsheet. Yeah Yeah, which is mainly I agree a form is a is a better solution Forms make spreadsheets. Yes Paul did you respond to we have a survey monkey account We had access to one. Um And still technically do I believe it's a free account So the the level of access the level of ability that it has is limited to that free Level, but we do um, as you know, the website has a form function so we can create any custom form that you may need with the when he's And we could make that private so only someone with the direct link could use it Correct. Yeah, and then we'd be able to export the the responses. I believe as csv and pdf it's certainly not as Comprehensive as a full paid survey monkey account depending on how many responses you get and especially with the different ways to Show that information, but it is a pretty powerful Uh I wonder if you might want to consider using a free google form instead because I have admin access to the website So I don't want anyone to think that I might tamper with the responses So that's a good point Or that other staff have access to seeing Yeah I mean Does someone want to volunteer to be the administrator of this process? I'm not gonna be Thank you Oh shucks, do you have a timeline open right there? Great um So the idea was to distribute the tool tomorrow Assuming you were just forming a document along, but if you were going to build a new Survey When when do you feel like that is a realistic assuming there's no changes to this? Yeah, and I can get I'll send you the word. Yeah, perfect. I Can likely have this ready tomorrow afternoon So let's say well, we'll give a little patting. We'll say this week And then the goal being that Council and leadership team still complete by july 27. Okay any question other questions or concerns suggestions all right Oh, I guess I want to just raise that I won't be I'm on vacation the week of the eighth So I know Um, I don't know I I can certainly Respond to other people like I can review the responses and the results and sharing You know perspectives at that point and then maybe Elaine you and I can have a chance to chat as for the time, but There's a limitation in that I'm if you're comfortable with that and you are I'm going with that Okay We'll just make sure to get your Yeah, because you'll have a few days to look it over and submit any comments. Yeah Okay Um This is it doesn't say it's on for approval. Should we take a vote on it? Oh dear. Um Does that that type of matter? I don't know that I matter I don't I mean more. Yeah, approve the review process policy. Yeah You can let's take a vote just in case sure. Yeah Uh, do I have a motion to approve the city manager performance review process? So good second motion by thomas second by jim all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye motion carries This is an administrative function anyhow that we are conducting so Yeah Okay, we are at the end of tonight's agenda. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Motion by jim second by thomas all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye Motion carries Thank you everyone Yes