 Okay, thank you all for indulging our new technical luxury here, where we're testing all this new equipment, so we're hoping it works, so thank you. Thank you for in advance, if there are any technical issues, thank you for your indulgence. My name is Ashley Thompson, I am a professor of Southeast Asian art in the Department of the History of Art and Archaeology in the School of Arts here at SOAS. I'm also the chair of the Research and Publication Division of the Southeast Asian Art Academic Program known as SAP. So it is really my pleasure to welcome all of you here today to our workshop, which is called Decolonizing the History of Art and Archaeology on Publishing Cultures in Southeast Asia and Beyond. I wanted to open today's proceedings with a very brief glimpse of Angkor. As many of you know, Angkor is the empire which covered much of mainland Southeast Asia from the 9th to the 13th centuries. Angkor was a core polity of what is often termed the Sanskrit Cosmopolis, that is a cultural expanse that was built through the interactions over the course of more than a millennium of local cultures across South and Southeast Asia with the Sanskritic culture of what we often refer to as India. Angkor, with its capital and what is now a Samaria province in northern Cambodia, was the product, very much the product of the evolving interactions between the local Khmer constructs and Cosmopolitan Sanskritic constructs. In linguistic terms, Angkor was built through bilingual literary production with a notable distribution of tasks on the one side and on the other. So the Khmer language can be called and has been called a constitutive language, that is a documentary or a contentual language in this context, that is it was a language that was used to document data and always in prose form. Khmer language inscriptions record in a prosaic manner the work of kings and their courts, notably the foundation of temples and their administrative organization, providing for example lists of servants that were assigned to a given temple, giving information on the demarcation of land associated with temples, this sort of thing. So the Khmer language inscriptions often served a cadastral function, a legal cadastral function. Sanskrit on the other hand, this language of the gods as it is self-termed as it calls itself, served to elevate the prosaic, in poetic form and in a performative or a workly manner as it has been termed with reference to Heideggerian categories. The Sanskrit inscriptions of Cambodia are complex literary texts, they have codified patterns of rhyme, rhythm and wordplay. They treat the same materials that are recorded and the same materials and the same events that are recorded in the Khmer language texts, but they render these same events through an elaborate intellectual confection which qualifies most obviously as art. So this linguistic union of documentary, vernacular, Khmer, Khmer on the one hand and the artful intellectual Sanskrit on the other is what can be said to have created Angkor. This linguistic union of the local and the cosmopolitan is variously manifest also in the sculptural and architectural traditions of Angkor. My prime example with which many of you are familiar is the sculptural ensemble of the Linga and the Yoni, the phallic symbol of Shiva representing the cosmopolitan order, united with the Yoni, the feminine counterpart to the masculine figure, the Yoni representing the ground. So the phallus in no uncertain terms is the sublimated penis that is the thoroughly theoretical manifestation of power based on the channeling of sexual energy into intellectual accomplishment. The Yoni on the other hand is the thoroughly uncultured, unsublimated ground. It is often referred to as the empirical matrix. Again these are the creations of Angkor and they are very much what can be said to have at the same time created Angkor. So you will no doubt have noted that the binding of the local and the cosmopolitan is not accomplished without the establishment of and the maintaining, the strict maintaining of hierarchies, the distribution of labor underpinning the creation of the cosmopolitan order, variously evidenced in ancient Khmer sanskrit textual production and in the example of the ancient Khmer Linga Yoni ensemble is also about power. The work of art that Angkor was, the magnificently intertwined linguistic, sculptural and architectural work of art was also a remarkable establishment of the balance of power by which the cosmopolitan elite dominated in making abstract and in making so legible to a broader world the local genius. Scholars of Angkor struggle still to hear the voice of the people behind the voice of the cosmopolitan elite. We struggle still to detect the local hand. Fast track to today and I wonder if you might tell me that times have changed. All of us Southeast Asianists will I think recognize a tendency to posit the local vernacular writing on ancient Southeast Asian art and archaeology on the side of the empirical. We have site reports, short descriptive documents, inventories, etc. I exaggerate only slightly. While European language scholarship is on the side of analysis, abstracting from the empirical data to interpret and make legible to a broader world. So what does this say about power relations maintaining the global order in our discipline? What does it say about partnerships in the field, when and how might this change? What is our role? What are our responsibilities as scholars in the power plays today? What effects will shifts in knowledge production have on knowledge itself? I hope that in opening these concerns at the heart of the Southeast Asian art academic program on to dialogue with our neighbors in the department of the history of art and archaeology and beyond it so as we can fruitfully explore other historical and possibly even future models. So with joint support from the Southeast Asian art academic program and the department of history of art and archaeology at so as today's workshop has an explicitly decolonizing aim to refine exit strategies for facilitating recognition of the many sites of knowledge production in the field and for enhancing intra-regional as well as international dialogue. As an a priori in conceiving this workshop, we have posited that publishing strategies which seek to foster collaboration and diversity at once can open paths for ensuring quality of scholarship without privileging any singular hegemonic voice. So I want to quote from the SOAS decolonizing toolkit to situate today's work within the broader SOAS institutional context and I'm quoting here, decolonization connects contemporary racialized disadvantages with wider historical processes of colonialism and seeks to expose and transform them through forms of collective reflection and action. Global histories of Western domination have had the effect of limiting what counts as authoritative knowledge. The global domination of written English as the central shared language for academic communication is a significant factor in producing inequalities in the access to and production of academic knowledge. So this is the larger institutional context in which we are evolving with this work. Now the core program today will comprise case studies from Southeast Asia pertaining to publishing cultures and patterns of knowledge production and dissemination in the ancient to pre-modern Southeast Asian Buddhist and Hindu archeological, art historical and heritage fields. We have other case studies which will include reflections on similar issues in the fields of Chinese and Islamic art along with presentations of ongoing institutional initiatives at SOAS and the Association for Asian Studies. In closing and then opening, let me thank the people in the institutions who have made today's gathering of minds possible. Firstly my co-organizers, Udumlak Kuntokun and Heidi Tan along with administrators of the Southeast Asian Art Academic Program, Liam Roberts and Chloe Osburn who are still working outside. Next let me thank our funders. This workshop benefits from the generous support of the SOAS Southeast Asian Art Academic Program funded by the Alphawood Foundation and from the Department of History of Art and Archaeology at SOAS's School of Arts. So thanks to these people and these funders, we are delighted to invite all of you not only to today's proceedings but also to a reception following them at 6.30, right outside the store in the foyer. I would like now to introduce one of my co-hosts, Udumlak Kuntokun who is a PhD candidate in History of Art and Archaeology here at SOAS and Udumlak will be introducing our first speaker. Thank you very much. Thank you Ashley. Our first speaker today is Noel Hidakotan. I first met him last year at the conference in Tamasat so at that time we have attended in the same themes like decolonizing History of Art and Archaeology and we share some experience like even he worked in the prehistory but we have some of the common decolonizing theme in the publishing cultures so that why we invited him to share his experience today with us and we hope that we can have a further discussion and further collaborative project in the future. So Noel Hidakotan is a senior specialist in archaeology at the South East Asian Ministers of Education, Organization, Regional Center for Archaeology and Fine Arts or you know as Sosemio Spafa in Bangkok where he oversees the cultures, programs related to South Asian archaeology and Spafa Journal. Born in Singapore, Noel obtained his MA in archaeology from the University of San Malaysia and his PhD from the Australian National University. His research specialty is in the rock art of Southeast Asia and he has documented sites across the region. Noel also runs the Southeast Asian Archaeology news blog and now he's welcome Noel for his presentation. I'm a bit nervous to get on and actually be a highly proficient person together. It's a great honour to be here. I put this little poster up because it's where I first met Ashley and this was a conference in Parmasat University. Sorry, can you hear me? If you can't hear me, just yell at me. And you're talking about decolonising archaeology and archaeology and it's from that presentation that these ideas are coming out. A little bit more about myself. Yes, I'm born in Singapore. I am also half Filipino and this is where I come from. My dad is Singapore Chinese. And aside from the region, I did my master's in Malaysia, I studied in Australia and most of my field work and I see many people that have worked at my field work in this region so it's very nice to see them in familiar places. Can I first ask people who... I speak English as my first language. I speak other languages not very well and I don't write in any other language. But people who English is not your first language, they are half the way. This is perfect. So I'm going to talk about something that I call the tool of languages exactly what I wish to talk about. Some of you might know that I run an archaeology website and some of you are my Facebook friends that have seen this post. I read an informal poll about... I asked everybody what was the most influential book about Southeast Asian archaeology that you have read? Does it have to be English? Does it have to be just something related to Southeast Asia or just a country related in Southeast Asia? And I was trying to get to what were the main textbooks about archaeology in Southeast Asia because we don't really have primary textbooks or readers in Southeast Asian archaeology. The results are aligned. If you want to take a look at it, you can see it online on the website. But we had 58 books suggested from .3 participants, friends mostly. More than half were Southeast Asian. That's quite representative. Out of the 58 books, only nine were non-English books. Vietnamese, Malaysian, Malay and French. So the ratio was about 6 to 1. 6 English books to 1 non-English book. And that got me thinking. How... If I were a Southeast Asian... Well, it's important to say this, but if I didn't understand English, how much of my ability to understand the archaeology of Southeast Asia is curtailed. And I was trying to understand, well, what's my sources? And I think some of you already know part of this story. There's a story of archaeology. There is an English. And there's a story of archaeology between Thar or Kanur or Malay. And sometimes these stories don't match. And where they don't match, what are the differences? Are they the same? What are the differences over there? So that's what I call a two-word problem. You have two audiences to these two stories of archaeology. One mainly in English, and one the non-English. I'm sorry that I've come to the non-English. I mean, there should be many other audiences, but they are basically in English and the non-English. And then it includes most of the local Southeast Asian languages. It also includes the other two languages, French, Dutch, German, but no longer international language. The difference is that there's a lot more written in English than it is in the non-English. So from the formal survey that I had, it was 6 to 1, there's been very little studies done about this hierarchy, but the only paper that I could find was about the differences in literature, from nature conservation, and theirs was 2 to 1, which I thought was a bit low. And the other problem is that these bodies of text, they don't talk to each other. So if you vote or if you do anything in one language in a day or in sign, you have no interaction with anything in English, and vice versa too. Unless you work with me by language, you could vote at the same time. I can't, I'm not, I'm not my language. I can't read it by English. And as a result, you have a very different idea of archaeology. So the data is the same, but if you have a limited amount of data to read from, you have a different impression of what the archaeology is. So that's the tool problem in the introduction. Sometimes it makes sense that we can come quite real. So this is a book published by UKN, any information? Can I, what is this? What's the title? The origin of the race. The name of the subject. In the subject. In the subject. In the subject continent. Have you read this book? Have you read this book? Has anyone know that this book? It's published by the, it's published by the University Press of Malaysia. And it claims among other things that the money as a race came from the lenses. This is the University Press, by the way. And that the Malaysians are the second oldest in the world. And if anyone knows anything about genetics, they're telling you that that fate might not be going to continue. There's no such thing as the best genes. But this, this, this theory has been out for the last eight years now. The authors have been, they've been in seminars, you know, Malaysia has its own problem with the ethmo-nationalistic identity. This doesn't help, but they're using archeology as a way to prop up this idea that some genes can be older and therefore not older than others. And one of the main sources of information for this theory is apparently from the human genome. At least that's what they say. Until last year, when members of the human genome project finally got written about what was happening, and they said, no, no, no, you're reading on this platform there's no such thing as old genes. But, you know, eight years has passed. There's a substantial amount of people in Malaysia who believe that their genes are not older, that they are the origins of the Greeks, that they have the origin for the Chinese, that they are not kidding, something bigger than I'm not kidding. And this is what happens when the two bodies of research are attached to each other. Some realness understands what happens. There's also classifications of accessibility. On the one hand, there are the English, international, online and accessible publications. And accessibility is a subjective term. For example, we have the Gimba, or the Jaipurna, it's open access, it's free online, you can download it. But it's, I guess, more accessible than, say, these three journals, these three journals which are ranking walls, in some sense, of the other, are always for online. These two are print publications, so in the worksheet, in that spot I checked on Amazon yesterday, it was selling for 125 pounds, for the cheapest and the most expensive of 250 pounds. So, even though the research is there, it's not as if, you know, here at 250 pounds is for, I think, related to the thing. And all these are English. So, again, if English is popular, first language, for both simplifications, this research is not accessible to them. So, for the model of research that previews, a lot of simplifications cannot access the archaeological knowledge of their past. This is what I do as an archaeologist in my regular time. I specialize in rock art, which can span from the prehistoric period, these are 10 censors, and so are AC, about 20,000 units. These are rock carvings in Cambodia, 10th century. Yeah, so there's a couple that's complemented, even though it's complemented. And then also, this is Pao, in the Shaan State, about 150 years old. A lot of people don't think, a lot of people don't think graffiti and carvings are art. But yeah, they are basically not things of national interest. So, I am interested in all of these. But I think every one thinks they're such a sexy part of art. If you, but you look, maybe 20 or 30 years ago, you think that there was no art on this issue. So, there weren't very many. There's not much any books about Southeast Asian rock art. So, the few book mentions we have about rock art aren't very compelling. In 1987, Sparkler had a conference on the prehistory of Southeast Asia. There was an announcement of rock art sites in Thailand. There were some presentations made, and then they added a conference to say, oh yeah, then rock art is something to be experienced, but the region hasn't yielded any rock paintings. In 2001, this is kind of like the textbook for rock art studies. It's about this thick. You could kill a person with it. And all of the information on Southeast Asian rock art takes three pages, and it comes under a chapter of Asia. So, that's how the third rock art was known in 2001. In 2002, with a book by Jean Pot, who's a well-famous rock art researcher, has one page representing the whole of Southeast Asia. His hand senses in one minute. And this book by Globler and Bowen, which is meant to be a textbook for Southeast Asian archeology, mentions that, oh yes, there is rock art in Southeast Asia, but not a lot of rock art. So, this is another book called Rock Art by Michael and Artie in 1991, and this is the map of all the rock art sites in Southeast Asia. So, what's wrong with it? Southeast Asia, there's no rock art sites in Southeast Asia. So, you know, there's no rock art in Southeast Asia. I'm not making it up, I'm going to polish up on these also. Tony Rock Art Sites are there really in Southeast Asia. This is the mind of Rock Art Sites in Southeast Asia. 1,500 sites across the region. How do you like finding these sites? Obviously, they've got every one of them, but we've been to the 15, books. I don't quite say what's across the region. They came from great literature, published some of the books, rock art is very visual, medium, so when they're cut out on these, it's quite easy to spot. So, like I said, I don't believe in literature, but rock art is very visual, so I'm lucky. How many of these are in non-English? So, remember, we went back to my poem, and it said 6 to 1, for a journal article of 10 to 1. So, that's even small. And there are other gaps in these that we don't see too. So, they're not just non-English English journals, they're general prints or too small to be indexed. They're not a common official piece. These are books that were produced by... This one was produced by the Indigenous Development in 2014. It is a nice book that has every rock art site in Indonesia very beautiful, but it can't be produced by the government. There are different ways of this, and you can't buy them from no one else. You can't normally get them unless you know somebody and this... saying that this the latest book is not online, so you can generate anything else. So, there's this literature out there that exists, but you really have to go and buy them. It's not like... you have to go to a library or you have to go and find somebody who works with the government and not download or chase down the publications. And back to language, study rock art is a very English specific key. There are very strict definitions of rock art, rock art is. Basically, rock art is if they mandate markings on natural rock surfaces. In English, the rock art technology prevails the way you make the rock art or you can have some kind of petro goods, which are removing substance from the rocks. So, carvings are petro goods. Now, pictograms are rock art that is made with an additive process that is worked. So, a key thing is a pictogram and a drawing is a dry process. So, you know, a charcoal rubbing that's a drawing. So, it's very nuanced that way and not all languages can catch this. These are from our workshop in Sparta in 2011. In 2011. There was a workshop on rock art studies and in our activities, we had the start of the day and we asked people okay, this is a rock art term. Could you translate this in your own language? And for some of these languages, this is the first time rock art was ever given a name in a native language. And some of you might want to translate this in your own language. A lot of these names won't translate to rock art. In Thai, we use here art. In Malay, we use here art. But not all rock art exists in K. So, that's not really a true sense of the word too. And then when we got to day 2 and 3, we just went down because no one else had an idea of how to translate these terms. So, we abandoned this event. I can't even imagine how to translate them into a local language. And I think thinking about political papers and critical analysis of papers brings to mind a very Asian notion of a cultural difference that was written before. So, we talk about publishing cultures. We also forget the culture behind the publishing. At least in my experience, in some creative cultures, there is a difference between what is written before and this senior person has written this and therefore this cannot be changed anymore. So, for example, in one of the very much rock art sites in there was a description saying that this might be a tiger. Right. This is a tapir. I don't imagine it anymore. And then for 40, 50, 60 years later every other person says this is a tiger. This is a tapir. This is a grubon. This is a deer. All because some from the deer come in and say that this was a tiger 50 years ago. Forever it will never change. This is a cultural thing that is underestimated, I think. And it can be best summed up in this experience to be best summed up in true story. You can't change all opinions because it will be disrespectful to all opinions. And that's something that I don't know how to describe. It's part of a cultural that I can't I can't begin to change by myself. And I don't think it's a problem that it's a way that we should be aware of how we think about knowledge. We can't just reflect it on how we publish them. So this is the last bit about rock art because I'm not going to talk about how we should watch art. It's a quite problem. It was based on my PhD work on that. I chair that program and I turn into papers. But there are two things from these papers. First, I applied that my children have written my reports and, you know, sent them my reports to the law governments and published them. The first problem is that I don't know how people are written because I've never been able to have a project with the law. The other problem is that these two journals are behind papers, so I don't test them. And that's because the academic publishing system is broken. I think we all know that. And SPAHA says that because SPAHA is also a publisher and also here on the screen are my competitors in the consulate. We publish publications. We don't make a copy of them and because our website you can download most of our publications free. We have a journal too. It's a lot of old journals. It started in 1980 when the SPAHA I think even in the CPS I've been I was very surprised that I went to the CPS and they still have all the old esteemed copies of the SPAHA that I guess it's amazing. We used to publish that four times a year and then we published three times a year and then it became three times a year. Then when I came to SPAHA in 2014 it was one time a year except even though I came in 2014 this one which she was producing in 2016 and I'm back later in 2013 and so I spent two years trying to redo the SPAHA journal into an online academic journal and the reason why we have to do it again is because all of us are making the SPAHA because it took a lot of time to do a good print a lot of time to make it your journal is more like a magazine, isn't it? You guys are a bit young I've never seen a magazine like this before Facebook groups in a book and we hire everybody and we had a colleague of mine in the magazine so we had reviews, we had 10-30 meetings, we had one of four essays and we had a passion experience but now the SPAHA journal has to be an academic journal we have to have peer review we have to have editorial policy and so one of the is getting wet research articles and we're still trying to do a soft aspect of the SPAHA journal by putting short reports and book reviews and watching the submissions although there aren't very many submissions to the journal everyone wants to submit a research article because it counts the most they are writing and the reason we have to be perfect this way is because we all know published or published especially in Southeast Asia there is a big push for everyone to publish in a journal because that's the only way it counts as writing so I've seen it in Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand there's a lot of pressure to publish to publish a book review when it doesn't count to publish an edited book because it counts a journal a chapter a chapter and a book is a journal article there are even points for some of the assistance for some of the postgraduate classes in Southeast Asia it's a requirement for MA and PhD graduates education before they graduate it's a requirement to graduate and that's of course because it just puts it's a way of giving the system and so one way to get around this is that if they have to publish that on their own journal if they publish in my journal if I publish in my journal so they can just say yes, our graduates have published before so we have this preparation to say that the journals I've taken here are those those types of books a lot of these journals are quite good all these journals here in the Indonesian months, they've been around for 20 years but in the last in the last 5 years they all shifted to an open access system precisely because of this Indonesian push to publish or not graduate it doesn't matter if so now once you once you get this now you can't just publish in the journal you have to publish in the right journal so you have a journal that has an ISI or a scopeless ranking so it doesn't matter if the general of the society is 100 years old and it's been going on for a while it's not written on scopeless it's not an ISI journal so it's basically like this and that's what happens to a lot of old journals which is not to be concerned about putting the stuff online so there is this preference and the ISI as scopeless journal we have to be an international journal which means almost always we have to be published in English so there is the preference now of that that feeds into publishing in the English journal which has a ranking and spoiler jarons get less and less submissions and they have less and less of a reason to continue which is a shame but that's the point of publishing in the English parish that's how we get into this stage where this too old problem is in our society and you can see some cracks in the system the current model is unsustainable you can see how the smaller journals are being created now now with software systems of OJS it's very easy to restart the old journals but because of that it's very easy for predatory journals to to begin and I'm sure most of you would have received an invitation to start with one example of an engineering journal to join a chemical chemical journal and these are targeted specifically at developing though because everyone knows these are the ones that have to publish in order to keep their jobs at the same time there is a backlash against the big publishing companies so what I'm saying in Australia in the EU there's a requirement now that you have to publish a journal that you can use in further research which I think is great but it means that that sensitivity hasn't reached Southeast Asia it's not going to reach Southeast Asia for another five maybe even ten years and then by then I don't know how the publishing industry would be eventually you'll catch up but in the meantime the bigger journals the bigger publishers are being pressured and the bigger publishers with other journals who are publishing open access are being deluged by an increasing number of submissions and after all this English is still the international language of science I don't think that's going to change anytime maybe except for maybe Chinese maybe there might be a situation in audience where everyone speaks Chinese I don't know if there's a change in language then there might be but even in Australia even in similar or official working languages so every now and then maybe we should change the language of Australian and Italian and then the videos say no no you're only changing the language of the answer it will never happen because so that's the equilibrium there it's very hard to get this out of the English paradigm so you notice that I I didn't use the common edition until now because I didn't really know what the common edition really meant in this context but you could think of the common edition as a one way dialogue and the common edition would be not to remove me telling you something but to make sure there's a chance to respond so you tell it in a conversation rather than I tell you something about and you tell me something about and you continue talking about so what can we do in order to to address the analysis maybe from governments and institutions like so and from companies maybe we should start mend the thing that we should return at least in some form in a local language I think I don't think I don't think it's to order us a requirement a requirement that if a researcher goes to Cambodia and you put in a research report that at least you have a summary in Cambodia I wonder if that's hard if you use pieces in Thai studies even though if you have an abstract and a type of an English it's not hard to do the type of an English if you are a publisher maybe you can start encouraging publications in two languages if it's not feasible because I know there are a lot of translations so you can make a requirement to if you have a summary of paper you have a summary of paper with a title English and abstract abstract and title also in a native language that's relevant to the country so I'm doing this for the SPAFA genre we started it this year and we have no negative feedback we've been doing this for the last three years and they've been doing this by sometimes they get requests from them they need help with translating abstract or just correcting abstract and that's not really hard, that's a five minutes of work so it's not a hard thing to do but the good thing about having these titles and abstracts especially if they're going to be online they can be searchable in a native language but I'm not going to talk all of us in this room about government lines of publishers so what can we do so maybe we should also start insisting that we publish our work submit something to a journal maybe we should say if I publish with you you should also include a title and an abstract in a different language and if they refuse find a division or people already have your work published and especially if you put them on websites like academia edu or research you can also start getting translations done or getting translation done or summaries for your titles and for your abstracts and then put them up on my site other people can access them so I started doing this for one paper and if anyone's looking for work I'm happy to really seriously secure a copy of the videos I'm making to translate some of my titles and abstracts into local languages but also the other thing that we should learn is learn a second language so like I said before we can't write another academic language another language and for half of you English is not your first language I think English is an academic language which means you are far better than I am and for that I respect you because I've not yet reached that level and you guys are great so maybe all of us should learn an academic language and the last thing is probably the most important thing is continue sharing and collaborating I've spoken to some of you already before this workshop started and I'm very shocked about the community that's built here I didn't realize in my cameo a few days ago that there were so many people that I didn't know here and I didn't see all of you but it also means that we should continue talking to each other we should continue sharing because all of us go back home to our home countries yes we have a good time in London yes we have a good time in Saras but things you will miss the most and I'll tell you this is from personal experience the thing you will miss the most is your interaction with people and there will be the ones that will come back to you the next time and you need a gift but I'm sure we'll meet again and you can permit this on other times but this is the power of sharing and the continuing communication so maybe ask your friends how is archaeology and is there a language difference of archaeology in English there will be a good starting point thank you so welcome back everything we'll start with the first panel I am Dr. Malika Hitia so I'm a lecturer in South Asian Studies in the School of Languages and Cultures and Languistics I am very pleased to be here I've learned a lot a lot to think about from the previous from what we just had I'm the co-editor about big bad paywall journals and we're thinking about these things all the time but it's good to have this we're there today we're going to have I think 10 minutes more or less from each speaker we have one person joining us via Skype the gentleman here is going to keep time so because I'd like to make sure that we have about 20 minutes 15-20 minutes at the end for questions I'd like to introduce Professor Cho who's a PhD candidate here and previously at Thomas University in Thailand and has also looked in publishing so we're looking forward to it so good afternoon everyone today I'm going to talk about the role of sorry the role of a publisher of knowledge of art history and actuality let me start on my presentation in my opinion the problem of production of art history and actuality in Thailand doesn't relate to the language better and right in culture but video platforms or publishers also have them based on the scholars and producing knowledge nowadays in Thailand there are three different platforms of media for publishing art historical and architectural work in Thai language first academic journal second publishing comedy third online press it is a platform the style of writing languages and contents are different because of the audiences and their standpoint or business point in Thailand I publish my works in these three kinds of media or platforms however in this seminar I have only 10 minutes to talk about this media so I will discuss all the first two media first of all most scholars believe that the first one is more reliable than the second one but this criterion doesn't work in Thai context because each of them has their own purpose and standpoint I can be general most art of a simagon school or a simagon university or a defiant art department in a simagon maybe someone knows publish their works in a simagon journal and numbo michagang journal the aim of of a simagon journal is to publish defiant art department research and to serve national agenda and monarchy most writer for art department stops most of the articles in this journal are descriptive emphasizing the report the result of excavation artifact analysis history of ancient city and study ancient architecture while numbo michagang journal just established in 2002 this journal may be served lecturers and students work of simagon university and outer university as well numbo michagang has a peer review system this makes it more reliable in term of academy most of them are descriptive some of them are analytical and some of them report the result of recent research these two are published in thai language this can be published in these two journals but most of the audiences are thai so there is no necessary to publish in english that is like the reason that means the update that art history called an archaeological information of its truth will be limited in thai language a few weeks ago when I was in thai language in my pre-work I had a chance to talk with a young artist in my art department he thought that why he has to publish his work in english here for art history and I could just walk to the update information about thai art history it should be able to read local language this might show a kind of naturalism but in fact it shows that they recognize the problem of imbalance of the power of language for publishing company as I understand and I say most of thai art history publish their work with many children publishing company and the journal of publishing company while most of I could just publish their work with a university press and the art department what you can it is possible that in art historical world this is easy to understand for the mass audience rather than an art history that sometimes has a lot of number and stack something like that what it shows in the power of the thai magazine what is template in 1929 by suji kuo ten a senior scholar and artist the initial aim of the art department from magazine was to argue and contest national history and art history mass colonial knowledge and nationalistic works revised and debated by suji and author writers for example suji argues that school thai was not the first art in all of thailand as national art history that means school thai cannot be defined as the first kingdom in thai art historical framework unfortunately the knowledge in many children has been rarely referred to western academy works because they publish in thailand best and some of them most of them are published paper in order to communicate with the mass audience non-academic language and writing culture in style of columnist are used in many children a lot moreover the degree of academic reference is rarely used because it made books look boring to read while mayo loran was established in 1974 this is the head of the 8th editorial board this general aim to present a folklore local history, local knowledge and variety of archeological and art evidence in many HSD in thailand in order to read the past of thailand and thailand in addition to mayo loran also open a step for alternative or non-mainstream art historical and archeological knowledge but one thing that mayo loran is a difference for many children is that every article wise and in this abstract that's why this general is often referred to in this work although these two publishing companies have a common or something a difference one of them try to involve with a social phenomenon and politics while academic journal doesn't deal with this problem or those problems some scholar of and author prefer to publish their work with many children and mongolans because their work will spread widely to public and this one of the best way to educate thailand people at the same time it cannot refuse that the benefit or income or money is better than academic journal and the beginning of many children and mongolans the most alternative knowledge and interpretation but allow for 10 to 15 years the number of mainstream art history publications have significantly increased the products of them are sold to students general people to guys and major art historians and archaeologists they change leaders to the business reason and audience in thailand that need to consume mainstream knowledge to serve that small store gm in conclusion in thailand there are many platforms or publishers to serve art historical and agricultural works these of them has their own nature writing style issues and audiences however you can see that general in thailand serves only a circle of scholar while publishing a comedy both of scholar and society moreover many issues that are being discussed in the west actually there are being discussed in thailand as well especially in meditation certainly sometimes we don't know each other because of that language and writing cultures the point is how to create a new platform for exchanging data, information and writing culture because that could be the east and the west like a truth be gained i'm not sure thank you for attention hi hi hi hi hi everyone thank you for indulging me i am kind of far away i do wish i was enjoying the sunlight filtering into the glass hi hi again thank you for having me i'm timing in myself as well so not to worry i will try to keep to 10 minutes today i'm going to share a little bit about the research that i did when i completed my MA and so as last year really just to start with an overview i read a lot of articles from orientations and as Ashley mentioned at the introduction my core question for myself was what kind of knowledge is constructed in the pages of orientations specifically i was looking at Southeast Asia i was looking at Hindu Buddhist art and these are all contentious terms that i hope to describe a little bit more go into a little bit more detail about what i found out so first some background orientations is an English magazine published in Hong Kong and distributed worldwide the target audience is collectors and connoisseurs of Asian art i mean they brand themselves on the cover pages the magazine for collectors and connoisseurs of Asian art so there we go for currency i limited my research to articles published in the last 30 years from 1987 to 2017 and i was looking specifically at articles with Southeast Asia or Hindu Buddhist in the title and from there i kind of pulled out 113 articles which made specific reference to Southeast Asia or Hindu Buddhist objects and there were actually over 30 years for special issues devoted to Southeast Asian material and i'm going to start really by telling you what i learned from reading so many articles from orientation the first is that Southeast Asia and Southeast Asian culture is positioned as a derivative of Indian traditions and this for me was problematic because Southeast Asia is then denied agency and it's really presented just as a receptacle for Indic culture this very much mirrors the early scholarship about Southeast Asia as being kind of Indianized states as said is suggested Southeast Asian materials were also described often as being derived from Indian prototypes or compared to Indian iconography so for example i read about Amman Varabhati that name Buddha described as derived from Indian Buddhist sculpture of the Gupta period sometimes the references to India were a little bit more subtle so i also read of Cambodian sculptures and the garment and the Cambodian sculptures were described as Doti rather than Cambodian term of Sampod so little things like that suggest to the reader that Southeast Asia is an extension of India why was this the case i think it's likely because Indian culture is much more widely known or assumed to be more familiar to the readers of the magazine so references to Indic culture would become almost a kind of shorthand for the writers and for the publishers and there was no real impetus to refer to Southeast Asia from any other perspective however it's not as if this shorthand was applied fairly across other cultures with Buddhist Shrugite or Rishnugite material so for example East Asian Buddhist materials were not quite subject to the same essentialism there was an article about a Chinese bodhisattva sculpture at the Waltis Art Gallery and it was described for its visual qualities and compared against a contemporary Guanyin figure in another museum in an attempt to date it the key guess that the description of the Chinese image represents what can be seen and the writer felt no need to recontextualize it by comparing it to another image from a different tradition this was the trend in wider academic discourse about Southeast Asia orientation has thankfully shifted away from this Indo-Centrity term in more recent years so in 2017 for example, John Clark he published an article accepting more updated scholarship about a stone dharma chakra excuse me a stone dharma chakra from Drabarty in the V&A collection his article situates the object in wider developments in the region rather than slipping into an easy Indian references so in other words it was simply a good academic article and I'm hopeful that with more scholarship about Southeast Asia being published from within Southeast Asia and outside orientation will catch up the second thing I learn from reading a lot of orientations is that Southeast Asian material culture pretty much ended in the 18th century so the vast majority of articles about Southeast Asian material discuss objects from early civilizations including Kamiya, Sugutai Lana, Ayutthaya the so-called classical periods this reveals to me really that collectors and connoisseurs of Asian art were interested in a particular type of Southeast Asian material or were expecting a certain aesthetic from a certain period a handful of articles about other types of visual or material culture of Southeast Asia only when they published special editions so for example there was a festival of Indonesia which took place in a few American cities from September 1992 the early 1992 and there was a special edition of the magazine in December 1991 devoted entirely to the arts of Indonesia so that covered things like batik and it stands to reason that if you read only orientations and didn't have a particular interest in Southeast Asia to read beyond what the magazine shows you you would naturally develop a very narrow understanding of Southeast Asian material culture as being exclusively from a particular period or of a particular aesthetic and the last something that I learned about Southeast Asia from the magazines is that the entire region is dominated by Hinduism and Buddhism of the 113 articles surveyed not a single one with Islamic art of Southeast Asia Philippines as you might know where Catholicism dominates is not part of the Southeast Asia imagined by orientations and the monuments of Borobudur and Angkor Wat seem to trap Southeast Asia as a romantic land of temples, of monks and some kind of mystique or exoticism so I think really if you're a scholar working within Southeast Asia the boundaries that exist between art history, anthropology and archaeology are sometimes difficult to defend and you cannot quite train to be an art historian of Southeast Asian Hindu Buddhist material in the same way that you can specialize in Greek sculptural tradition or main ceramics art history is often taught as a linear progression through time and this may not be relevant in Southeast Asia and unlike in the study of Euro-American art history there isn't a clear separation of religious art from secular art in Southeast Asia so for example also scholars of contemporary Southeast Asian art often draw on religion to understand the process of art making even if the content of the work is not itself religious this relates to the general observation that Southeast Asian art history as a discipline is Nathan but they also reflect the system of knowledge or knowledge making unique to the Southeast Asian context I'd like to think about it as a way to have some e-colonizing knowledge so what I learned from orientations with that two collectors Southeast Asian material of greatest interest tended to be sculptural Hindu Buddhist and classical so in orientation that's very little to discuss these complex notions of knowledge of aesthetics of power of polity which you have to think about I think when you're thinking about Southeast Asia of course there's something to be said about the visual appeal of the materials themselves that they are loved by collectors they are undeniably beautiful and possibly exotic there is nothing inherently wrong with that people want to spend their money on objects that bring them joy and beautiful objects do that so then the question I wanted to ask as well was why collect and I thought that this quote by Baudou helps us to think really about the idea of collecting and the practice of collecting it's very much social it is very much a marker of prestige so the impulse to have to collect Southeast Asian Hindu Buddhist objects can be traced really to the history of the exhibition as an Orientalist and some have suggested that interest in South and Southeast Asian objects spiked actually with the founding of the People's Republic of China and Chinese art became illegal to import also compared to South American art Southeast Asian objects were relatively inexpensive and that's why you know really people started to develop a taste for the Southeast Asian material I'm aware that I'm running out of time and I really just wanted to end with this last question which is about the ethics of collecting and when we think about the ethics of collecting and the position of Southeast Asia within the greater global context unfortunately a lot of Southeast Asian objects a lot of Southeast Asian nations become the victims of exploitation by virtue of economic power etc and so the place of orientations within this larger publishing culture as a player within the art market and the ecology of trading art as commodity just for me so there's the exploitation and so if I'm asking myself again what kind of knowledge is constructed in the pages of orientation I'm wondering to what extent should we be asking that same question of other types of publications of academic journals of textbooks and with orientations a magazine that has mass market appeal does it perhaps have greater power and what does that mean so I'm sorry that I'm ending with more questions perhaps than any other kind of information and I look forward to the discussion later thank you very much now an afternoon scholar and she's also from the the museum of the Chinese sculpture and I should mention that she is the co-editor of the tattoo journal which said you haven't applied and applied to him yeah so Hi everybody today I I'm not talking about but I'm talking about population and population and the situation right now at the Chinese museum so yeah I should be saying yeah this is everyone is in the behind behind I have this one this one is the same from the this is a very famous artwork at the Chinese museum and it is an an aesthetic reading so you all know that the Chinese museum today is a top joint destination in my city and it's also home to the Chinese sculpture in the world however it's functioned as a display and research center so I think I would like to present the current state of population and population that has led to the limitations and the difficulties in research work at this institution and also a lack of the same kind of culture so my top will be the rabbit empty construction the first part is the publication in the museum library the second is about population activities at the museum and the last one is highlighted block rooms so it went up until after 2019 not the museum allocated a separate room in the new building to make it a small but through a makeshift library open for the museum staff in the years before there were no block rooms made or set up a library the so called library included a few cabinets of books and magazines located in the same office with the Department of Education so today in terms of regional materials the current library have the following sorts of applications first, books in Vietnamese so we have books in the fields of history art archaeology, museology ethnology and religion but the number is not really that much the second source is books in English so we have also have limited number just a few and we also have books in French understated version particularly in the field of chamber art and archaeology but again, it's very limited mostly French callers Saint-Actin, Bob Monty Philippe Ston, Jean-Marc Sénier you all know the big news in the field so we have some publications by the authors but I want to highlight that all of them are copies not really books and many of them are not really readable because I've been used by them and played it in and most seriously there's no illustrations with images for all the texts so you can imagine we study our picture with that illustration and in terms of photographic we only have a CD of photos of one of the sculptures and this is a side product that we carry out the project by the CD store in the catalogue in terms of medicine and journals we all have medicine and journals in Vietnamese so I just picked the sources we have journal of archaeology journal of history, journal of cultural and art studies we have medicine of ethnology and English medicine so the number I can only able to calculate so what's not available at the museum so the situation we view the facts but we don't have it in documents from the colonial period for example, museum logs correct comments between museum staff or colonial officers we don't have reports we are now research and ethereal we also don't have photo correction taken from the colonial period particularly of the temples and the sculpture we don't have journal and papers written in English we don't have history or extensive page of Chinese inscription we don't have drawings, maps or anything so that is still a situation and now I move them to the next section Publication Activities so in the past few years we have a limited number of publications which were published by the museum and Islam so I want to here I want to introduce a few the first two publications one in Vietnamese and one in English and this is like a dry book by one of my staff the title in English is Trumstructure and Indian Ecology and we have this one which is now at the Trum Museum in this one in Vietnamese and this also about the all the Trum relics in the city of the Vietnamese and last year we have this one by a museum staff but it's more like a dry book and it's written in English this one, this is the same from the conference and it's a new year and recently we have this one which is in stone but in English only we don't have the Vietnamese versions or the Vietnamese versions and one other situation is that the museum doesn't publish any bulletin even in the form of craft copy or electronics years ago museum staff contributed an excavation in French which is a French journal of the study of Trumba art but now the subject has stopped its operation and French speaking staff already retired so actually now we don't have any we only have two staff speaking French of the museum so what's the problem I want to highlight some problems here but the museum which our museum reacts with some material particularly French books during the colonial period as I already mentioned yeah so I can tell you some way this one, the first one here the first two is really important publication one the part of Monty and the other by Philipe Sun but as a museum now we don't have any French version we only have translated version and another but the translated version is in the form of how to say we ask museum staff to retire so this one is really bad and this one is really important to the study of Trumba art because inside the book we also see the illustration on the map of the site but at the museum we don't have any books like this and then we don't have even photographic illustration like this on the study alright this one not the section that I took photo during my few work at Italy Paris so I even now have a big collection on the victim documents during the colonial period but we also don't have any French art museum today yeah um so this one how about what time it makes her view yeah so the second problem is museum has limited 6 stocks of photo of Trumba site and sculpture I can tell you one example like this is one of the drawing by Jean-Yves Petraise he conducted the exhibition in Tracul in 1927 in 1928 this is a very important collection in Tracul sculpture at the Charm Museum and the exhibition is very important but we don't have this kind of drawing on the map of the museum like this one and this one on these all of those are like reproduction that I took the photo archive of the museum in Paris and today because we don't have any photos in this library so we mainly use the website of Eiffel but the fact is that we are not I'm sure that we have internet connection all the time to get access to photo online and the third problem is the language barriers so this kind of language barrier prevent museum start from assessing with sub materials and publishing their work and here are our example when the museum start for assembly don't speak English or French so the project is difficult to read or to use any materials in foreign language like English or French other raw materials in French have not been translated into Vietnamese some have been translated but not come in and some sections are missing more seriously the translated person include text only without illustration as in original principles it's a real dilemma here even that the field of action originally shaped by the French but there seem to be a rupture in the reception and the reproduction of knowledge in this field and the Chinese today and this is called by the language barrier and the net copies of materials so another example of language couples in the news fellowship is not even English only but there are no translation into Vietnamese whereas recent estimation reports new discoveries or few surveys are conducted and written in Vietnamese that gap between the two words so I can mention some books here like this one you know about this book is really important to study of Chiang Mai, this one but all of them in English and this one, this journal this is the only journal of the history of archaeology in Vietnam but it's written in Vietnamese but luckily it's abstract and tied to in English or this is a very good book in understanding Chinese structure and how the Vietnamese people reset this kind of cultural literacy it's a very good book to my opinion but sadly it's written in Vietnamese only if you want to learn about this we'll set up the reception but we don't know how to read it so is it clear that there exists the three bodies of knowledge written in 39 languages colonial materials in English and Vietnamese with limited use of French and English in addition to the shortest of the research materials and proper translation work as I mentioned museum staff can't make use of the existing scholarship published by foreign research researchers for their work and with publication in Vietnamese already the museum staff cannot also deliver their work to non-Vietnamese and thus hindering non-Vietnamese researchers in assessing data and other updated information in the fields for its reason and to some extent for commercial use some staff decided to publish in English already in recent years we have found that in your publication and what is printed by E-Fail is about the tromba inscription and what is printed by E-Fail is the tromba museum staff so in cum music I want to say that publishing is something very important for a museum at a center for understanding reservation education and research the tromba museum is an example among many of the examples from a very gross level from this case study I want to highlight the plot moments that the tromba museum is facing at my institution and I hope to find a way to watch the publishing culture of the museum in the future if I like to talk a little bit or any further she is also a KFD candidate and she is also co-edited to have published a journal and previously was a lecturer at the University of Vietnam good afternoon everyone again and this is my top today is decolonizing the publishing platform challenges from Brazil Journal as a co-editor I have two of my co-editor team today here at any time and also my co-editor and we have another one who is not here today Ben Maybrat so let's me start Brazil is a journal of Buddhist and Kinura architecture an archaeology of ancient pre-modern Southeast Asia established in 2020 and the journal is funded by Southeast Asian academic program or we know as SAF it was formed and is run by a group of so-as KFD students together with advisory members of SAF's research and publication committee the two aims to be a platform for young scholars and early career research both Western and non-Western to publish their work on the ancient to pre-modern areas included in our publishing process although our journal is published in English language but we accept article within the Southeast Asian languages and we offer English translation published parallel with original text as well and for some of you who is interested in publishing your article with us, please visit our website or see more details here to the journal or you can get our paper here and this is our website you can go and see some more details of the mission and this is advertising times already and again there are several issues that we have been discussing and facing since we set up the journal we think this is because the journal is published in multiple languages so we consider the challenge because we challenge with the different academic cultures some of you who is international student you might know these issues on the screen I have listed our considerations comparing between Western and non-Western or Southeast Asian academic cultures in the case we have a Vietnam in time for the case these issues on the screen are not new and as an international student in the UK University the first thing that we have to learn in the pre-session of course about all of this writing sign here is clearly seen that Western culture that we have been taught that a good article has to be real structure like we have to start from A to B to C to D and you have having an argument in your article and critical examine however compared to Southeast Asian culture especially time in Vietnam that we have discussed no structure is required in our article and some articles start from the result and sometimes they may end with something general idea not the conclusion that we expect and no argument is required as well and for Arthur most of the Arthur in Southeast Asia we are worried to criticize Arthur especially their teachers or colleagues because being criticized means being disrespectful or aggressive person this is kind of a culture that intertwined to your academic writing and reference the next issue is highly concerned in the recent academic culture this includes reference citation system predicting source why is Southeast Asia sometimes this issues less attention and there is also some limitation that Noel and Pipa mentioned before about the reference is restricted by data access in which new discoveries published in Southeast Asian languages might not be acknowledged or noticed by Western scholars who cannot read Southeast Asian languages and on the other hand Southeast Asian scholars are restricted by language barrier and also that's an application access such as expensive, database e-journal and book etc and the last issue is copyright which is similar to the reference and I come up with the idea when we start to think about set up our publishing process then dealing with the difference academic cultures therefore bring us to face some challenges when we start our publishing process and the first issue is a peer review and different academic cultures the second is the role of editor editorial team so I describe this issue through the charts on this slide the first chart at the top is the normal process for English article written by Western or English speakers the article will be passed from our editorial team to reviewer and editor will work with other when comments come back and finally publish other journal as well but the second is a process for Southeast Asian article which which are written by Southeast Asian scholar and in this case the first challenge for us is that in order to accept the article at least one of our editorial team must be able to read that language so we then apply to one of our co-editors at the moment we have two English speakers one Vietnamese and one Thai speaker in our editorial team so we have planned in the future we might have an option for the guest editor if we receive another Southeast Asian language and the second challenge for the second step the reviewer the reviewer has to be able to read that language as well so we have to list the reviewer in the region or Southeast Asian scholar who can read that it's not necessary to be only the Southeast Asian scholar it can be Western scholar who can read that language too and in this way sometimes we have editor, reviewer and author are from the same language our same academy closures so we have one case we already have one case reviewer from the same country however we have to keep in mind that in the end paper will be published in English and therefore although most of the publishing process run by these Southeast Asian scholars the paper should be made sense for our reader who is mostly familiar with the Western academy quota and this is crucial challenges for our co-editor our team will be able to review the article only after the translating process is done so it's nearly here so all of this process is being done by one co-editor who know that language well and sometimes we have been discussed like how can we evaluate this reach our our theme or question for the journal before we translate however in some case we have paper submitted in English language but the author is Southeast Asian background why the reviewers are a basin scholar therefore sometimes comments are divided from different academy closure or different process or different differences you start in difficulty to respond from the author for the comments in this case our co-editor has to closely operate with order to respond to comments so in this case we have our question in our editorial team like how far the co-editor can be intertwined with the order to respond to the comments because usually when you are editor you are you should not intertwine to help your auditor to respond to the comments right and an additional point for us we have discussed whether the local name should be translated or shall we put them together in the reference this is just a small thing that we have been discussed another thing is about the author's name it's another part that we have this issue come across and the author name will be on your profile that we in this case we have converted name which as Thompson suggested that generally the surname will come first and followed by name but someone somehow the recent system converts the name of the converted to like a name and surname and this is a very small thing that we are thinking about to respect the culture and finally the issue of our in-text citation in case from Thailand in the in-text citation system generally we recognize people by name but when citing the author in the text in recent system we have to use surname and then following by year and some scholars in Thailand suggested why don't we just put the name and then following by year like this this is probably for them as one author and then if he published in 2000 so suggestions and these are 2000 not barely put in 2000 so this is just a very small small thing about the reference that we are considering and for me I think the publishing process for a particular journal is learning and developing process between editorial team and the Southeast Asian scholars and also among our editorial team as well to decolonize the production language of Southeast Asia art and archaeology from the publishing platforms although we are still struggling to achieve this colonizing goal that at least we think we have started and we are aware of some of the issues that come up thank you I used to work in Pondicherry which was also owned by the International Ministry and I think with the museum the problems you were talking about with your institution but not having access to resources which are there let's say the EFE or other institutions so I think from our experience what we try to do is just it seems to me that the resources are there it's just a question of pulling them together under the same thing so for example where you are saying we don't have these pictures of the Germans you said they are there at the EFE so in Pondicherry also there is the EFE there you mentioned a lot of translation problems so a lot of ways how we work around your problems is just try and work together with the people and the resources there to take care of translation problems or share more resource data amongst each other so I was wondering if that's something you would try and get more people together rather than saying okay we don't have this in our institution but if you can share these things yeah I agree actually that's what I'm trying to do right now because I have been working at the museum for more than 10 years now I'm still in contract now so why I'm outside Vietnam I see a lot of resources related to Shambhal but I don't see it at the museum so actually I'm not going to say we don't have this, we don't have that to stop at last I mentioned we don't have that because I want to find a way out of that situation so that's why I'm thinking of cooperating with other partners to peel a link or at least to work with EFE in the future to help to bring some sorts of materials back to the museum for future research I really enjoyed the panel it was an excellent overview of the issues faced by Western scholars and Southeast Asian scholars and locations to this work and it's definitely been my experience working on Thailand and looking at Thai scholars work and Western scholars work what I'm interested in is if there's been any work on the history of how these academic cultures diverged from this example of a museum that was suddenly from what I understand it lost all its archives at some point and therefore the pride of the museum and the important resource of its ongoing work I don't think that's probably the case with any other colonial era museums in other parts of the world that museum is there but much of what contributed to its growth at some point in history I don't know if anyone can answer about the history of their academic culture but maybe we can start with Zuyen if you can tell us how the annual records and photos were removed from the museum yeah actually I don't know when but a few weeks ago when I was in Vietnam I talked with John DeFoule a very famous artist from in Vietnam and he mentioned that during the colonial era the museum had a library with some sorts written in French and I I wonder if back to that time they had this kind of photographic archive but actually today I mean on the photos of the ancient town temples on the statue at Evel so at some national center I mean in Vietnam we have some archival center but we all have limited numbers of photos and I mean the majority is still now in Evel and the museum also have a set up revolutions and they set up a mix of Evel to have all of the revolutions yeah so I don't know how when this happened in Vietnam but when I worked at the history museum in Hanoi and in Saigon I saw that the history in Hanoi and in Saigon still have some written documents and an excavation report for example the excavation the mitsa excavation or the dongil excavation they are really important and the reports are also really important in the history museum in Saigon or in Saigon, Ho Chi Minh City officially so the history museum in Ho Chi Minh City have the reports and the librarian told me that when Evel, actually you know the history of Evel so Evel move around to Vietnam so after 1945 Evel shifting back to to Paris and they moved on the documents to Paris center but somehow this the reports left in Saigon in Ho Chi Minh City so today some researchers if they want to know more about the French excavation and dongil or mitsa they still go to Ho Chi Minh City but they only have this kind of documents and all the other kept in the carton I mean all the boxes at the Evels I think the documents have been moved to Paris center Thank you Thank you very much for these very good presentations I have a question related to publications two of the presentations dealt with that one is about cost you mentioned that there are publications in English and Thai for example how accessible are the publication in Thai for Thai students for example and is there any other way for people to access this publication to be about the Thai now but also the foreign language publication especially the t-text that you didn't mention some of these similar books that you mentioned on archaeology and art history are there any kinds of issues with copyright in Cambodia for example where I used to work some of these books were just taken to the Russian market then photographed for me I mean for some of the people in our organization it was an issue and that was more people to access this text I didn't think that it would be so much of an issue and the other point I wanted to make is that the Association for Asian Studies for which I work also have some funding for the translation of books in the molecular language into English so if you have some good ideas of books that you think would really help promote the scholarship of Thai, Philippines, Singapore, Cambodia please let us know because there is some funding usually the translation is always from Southeast Asian language to English but it really sort of helped the funding is not massive but the initiative I think is very important In Thailand the situation of translation of publication I think every university tries to encourage their lecturers or researchers to translate English or other languages into Thai and try to encourage Thai scholars to publish their work in English but I'm not sure what happened it caught ok, you will see I'm not sure a lot of money for translation but finally maybe like there is not a lot of Asian to translate like academic work so yeah we are flexible in my faculty is the faculty of the department we have a scholarship we have money like a college our staff to do that but the system or like something that doesn't work few people have a passion to translate English or local language to English and go to a present their work in English like in my faculty we have 250 lecturers but each year just a lot of 5 or 6 go to a more present their work in English another point that you ask me about the copyright the copyright law in Thailand I'm not sure it's quite a stick so it's a different form like when you travel and go like a student come to you and then try to sell a book from a real book actually it's a unique copy but in Thailand we don't have a bad situation because the price of a quite cheaper than Cambodia and in publishing a company they try to open the new market by using online book shop so you can access easily all the book that you need and I think to go a thousand quite useful for access maybe sell it to Asian language and for example my faculty we teach a lot of fight for Asian languages Bahasa, Indonesia and other and now we try to equate our staff and students to study book and article in for Asian language like the recreation the fourth year of a student they have to do in Southeast Asian student they have to use local Southeast Asian language to do his thesis or research before a casual I think in terms of Thai for in the university mostly they have a free copy you can read online but you cannot download you can access by internet but you have to know Thai language then you can access and read it but you cannot download mostly Thai in Thailand in university they have open free access for everyone and some most of the general we have like a in this we have time to thank you very much for your time and thank you