 Hi, I'm Krzysztof van Tomme and I'm going to talk to you today about products and about how to build them in the right way. And the right way, I think, is in an agile way. I think a lot of you probably are doing projects for customers in an agile way, but maybe you should be thinking about running your products also in an agile way. Not just the development, but everything, like everything. And that's what this presentation is going to be about. Is it scannable now? I've been moving it a bit. So just as a small clarification, throughout my slides you're going to see barcodes. Basically what I've been playing with, and this is also one of my minimal viable products experiments, is to see if people will use barcodes during presentations, if they can scan them. So the barcode that you see here, if you scan it, it will send you to Twitter to go and retweet whatever I wrote there. The other barcodes throughout the presentation will send you to a little website, which is like something where we've got some of the materials from this presentation. I think you can go and comment on the individual slides. So it's a couple of experiments that we're running. About me, I'm Christopher Fantoma. I'm the CEO and co-founder of Pronovix. That's a Belgian Hungarian company. So I used to say I'm the Belgian from Hungary, but now I'm the Belgian from Hungary who is again living in Belgium. And if that doesn't totally blow your mind, I'm a bioengineer. So I've been bringing a bit of a different perspective to the Drupal world, I think. So that's also one of the reasons why I'm very active in an event organization. So I don't write much code, actually I don't write code, but I try to overcompensate doing all kinds of other stuff, some part of the Drupal association. And I don't know if you know this guy. Anybody recognizes him? He's actually quite a famous investor. Well, actually his partner is really famous, but this guy is really interesting because he's been saying some very interesting stuff about mental models. Mental models meaning simple stories or simple simplifications of a certain idea or concept that can help you to think differently about your realities. And one of the things that he's saying is, so if you go to that bitly, you'll find a report. Well, there's a couple of articles out there in which they interviewed him and where he's talking about some of the mental models he's using to do his investments. Very interesting stuff. He gets quite some of his models come from biology also. Maybe that's partially my bias because I see who somebody finally who's also talking about environmental and ecosystems and thinking about that in business and legitimizing it. I used to do that in the past, but then it became a bit of a no-no. But I think there's a lot of stuff you can learn by looking at ecosystems and biological systems and like reapplying it. They help you think in a different way. And with my background, there's quite some of that stuff in this presentation today. So what's the problem? Homegrown CMSs, like I think a lot of people here in this room started out building their own little CMS in PHP like a long time ago. They thought it was brilliant and then hit the issues of maintainability and scalability and all that other stuff. And then started looking for something else and then probably that's how you ended up with Drupal. But homegrown CMSs are a lot like sand castles. It's fun to build them, but they break down really easy. One wave comes and they're all gone. And they just keep crumbling down and it's a lot of hard work. And then if you look at what has happened with Drupal, Drupal has come in and basically been, well, some people will say this is too harsh, but I think actually Drupal has been quite a disruptive force in this landscape. Because basically what I've seen happening around me is that all these people that had their own little CMSs, suddenly their customers started asking for Drupal specifically. Like, okay, we don't really want your stuff, or well, they didn't say that, but could you build this in Drupal? And I hear this now coming up more and more. So basically what's going on is that this wave of open source CMSs, including Drupal, is coming in and it's like a tsunami. And that's a really powerful image now, especially after what happened in Japan. But it's coming in as a tsunami and it's basically leveling the playing ground and maybe not destroying, but at least removing a lot of the value of these custom CMSs. And that's a lot of diversity that is being lost. It's like an extinction level event. It's like us humans doing this stuff to the planet, like destroying a lot of species. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's something to think about. There's a lot of value that was in there, in that diversity to some extent, because Drupal brings a lot of different value. But there's a lot of value that has been leveled. And there's a new level of playing ground that is being created. And now my next step is, but if you look at Drupal and if you're a pure Drupal shop, like doing basically anything people ask you to do in Drupal, like without trying to diversify, just being the random Drupal shop doing all kinds of brochure sites, all kinds of different sites, not really picky about what you do, you're still building sand castles. They're really pretty. They're really beautiful. They're really big. They're really robust. They're going to stand way longer than all the stuff that these custom CMSs were doing, but they're still sand castles. Because you're still vulnerable, that's what I want to say. Because after the disruption wave has gone, after this big tsunami of open source has really leveled the playing field, after everybody will be doing Drupal or some other open source CMS, we have small shops, because I think most of the people here are small Drupal shops. We'll be competing with the elephants. And once it's a playing level, once it's been leveled to the playing field, it's easy for the elephants to come in. And that's what's happening now, actually. So now building the tension, building drama. Luckily, we've got this guy, Drupal Buck, or Drupal Roach. Dries introduced him. It's a little fellow. He's like unkillable. He's a bit of an eat everything. He'll take any project and build your website for it. He's a bit of a bottom feeder, I would say. And he's hard to kill, but not necessarily relevant. So meaning it's so diverse and so adaptable, like he can be in any kind of ecosystem. But he's not necessarily the shiny bird in that ecosystem. But if you look at insects, and here come the mental models, if you look at insects, they've got this really cool building model, because insects, like they're everywhere, like really, literally everywhere. There's a couple of niches, like the sea, that they had a bit of harder time getting into. But else, if you look around, you'll see insects everywhere. And the reason for that is they're built on a really modular building model. So if you look at them, they've got wings. They got paws. They got this mouthpiece. And they can really easily adapt these and reconfigure it to adapt themselves to a new ecosystem. And Drupal is a lot like that. It's got a lot of these little modular bits and pieces that can easily be repurposed and further enhanced to fit a specific niche. So we're good at adapting to different niches. But if you want to be successful in a niche, you have to go all the way. You have to really adapt. You have to diversify. You have to become a different kind of bug, not just a roach, not just a Drupal roach. And that's not meant to any user on Drupal Odorg or anything like that. But meaning, you have to adapt yourself to specific feeding habits. You have to become, I don't know, specialist in church websites. We've got a couple of those. You have to be specialized in SEO or something. You have to get away from just being just another Drupal shops because there's so many out there already. And more and more are coming. If you want to be something special, if you want to be really successful, you have to adapt. You have to change. You have to be specially adapted to certain environment. But, and again, even a nice niche is, again, still a little wave. So it has all the same dynamics of the open source waves. So if you're building distribution, like Drupal distributions, that's probably not a very good way of doing this. Because what you're doing is you're creating another open source product that will do the same thing to that very specific niche, like be the wave of change that destroys some value from some competitors and builds value for the Drupal ecosystem. But it's, again, a level playing field. Everybody can play there. Once you've built a distribution, anybody can take it and run with it and do the awesome stuff that you wanted to do. So you need something more than just a distribution. You need a business model. You need a sustainable business model. Who knows this graph? Yeah, some few people. OK. This is the business model canvas. It's awesome. It's just plain awesome. Because it's a really good tool. It's a really good model to help you think about your business. Like, it's not like writing a business plan. Business plans are so passé. Nobody, like, you don't want to go and write a business plan. Because business plans, yeah, nobody really believes in that anyway anymore. A business model, though, is a tool not so much as a communication tool. It's a thinking tool. It's like I use mind maps all the time. And I realize that some sort of creative thinking I can't do without mind maps. Like, I'm more efficient if I use it. This tool is like that. This tool will help you think in creative ways about your business. Because it asks the right kind of questions. It has these different areas, key partners. I won't go in detail here. But if you go and search it on the web, you'll find a lot of stuff about it. There's even a really good book about it. I'll show you that in a minute. And if you're building a business, you should be looking at this. Now, I said that it's a tool to help you think. What I mean with that is that you should not just fill this out and then put it in a closet, like what you would do with a business plan, and never look back at it until maybe next year or in two years, and then come back. You should be using it as an active document. Every week, you look back at it. And you fill in the stuff that you've learned about your products, about your customers, and you do new iteration. And you keep updating it to make it adapted to your current understanding of your business. So it's like a really good brainstorming tool to help you think about where you're heading, how you're doing, and what kind of business you would be able to build. The URL that's there, that's a Google Doc that I made from it. So you can just, if you take that, it's a template. You can just, it's open. Just make a clone, make that one private. And you can use it with your colleagues who might not be in the same location as you. This is the book that I was talking about. It's really useful because it kind of explains how you can use a business model canvas. It was interesting for me that you can't get it in a digital format. But once you buy it, you'll see that it has all these nice pictures. You don't want that in digital format. Now, let's go back a bit to lean startups. So you've seen this business model. I was hinting at it that you could use that to reiterate and to build further on your understanding of your business. Well, what I'm hinting at there is that, is it the concept of a lean startup? And what is agile, lean, all this stuff? It's all about learning. Everything that lean is, it's basically, it's a way to get faster feedback, to evolve faster, to learn faster from a changing environment, from where it's incomplete information about your customers, about your business model, about your market, product, whatever, and to basically adapt to that information on a lean way. That's, for me, that's what is agile. And there's this whole movement going on right now. And if you didn't know about it yet, you should really go and start reading about it because there's a lot of interesting stuff there about lean startups and how you can use this kind of methodology to, instead of trying to build a product and start today and then in half a year finish it and then find out that your customer actually doesn't want it, build a minimal viable product today, something small, something prototype, go to the customer, get feedback, do a new iteration, new iteration, new iteration. That's the basic concept. And I think we as a Drupal community have been, or well, I claim guilty. We've been pretty bad at that because what we traditionally, well, in beginning what we would do would be like, oh, we got this cool idea, we're just going to like spend a couple of months programming and then go to people and then, oh no, it doesn't work. Or yeah, this is actually cool. It's really cool technology. And thank you, thank you for developing this. Bye. Like basically to be able to learn if there's actually a business in the ideas that you have. And to be able to do that, you really have to go with the lean kind of methodology. And the first way to do that is to get out of the building. You can't learn about your customers by just sitting behind your desk brainstorming. You have, like you might think that you are omnicentience and you know everything about a certain segment or a certain product. It's not true, forget it. You have to go out, you have to talk with people because they're going to ask you really weird questions and give you new ideas that will so totally change your understanding of your problem space that it will have an enormous influence on what you're building. If you don't do that, you're gonna be caught out because this is the new standard. Like this is what most tech startups or this is what the new wave of tech startups are doing. They're all going out, doing this agile lean kind of methodology and actually learning from the customers. They're doing customer development. So they're developing their understanding of their customers. And that's a really good book about that. Well, basically this is a short version and this one was digitally available so I could get it on the Kindle Store. But actually the book that they're getting most of their information from is Four Steps to Epiphany. I don't know if you've read that, but that's really good stuff. But if you want it for the flight back home, you can just get this one on the Kindle Store. What's a minimal viable product? I already slightly touched on that. This is a TrubBond. And in my company, we've got the saying what would the TrubB version be like? Or if you, I don't know if there's Hungarians in the room. No? Like there's a Fappadosch. That's a Hungarian word. They use it for low-cost airlines and it actually means wooden benches. So like what would be the Fappadosch way of building the first product? So instead of trying to put all the features you think you could put in the thing, try to focus on your first build and the next consecutive builds. Try to focus on what is the minimal thing? Like what can I build today? What can I get out today, put it online and get feedback from customers? It's not gonna be your final product. Everybody knows that, right? It's not gonna be having all the whistles and bells. It's gonna be something really small. It might even be just a survey. It might be just a registration form. But you can do that today. If you're thinking about building a product tonight, you can have a minimal viable product. Or tomorrow, or, well, you know, it's a bit busy on DrupalCon. But the basic message is this. You should not, don't ever try to build your final product from day one. Like I've said this a couple of times. I'll repeat it a couple of times. Don't make that mistake. There's a lot of people that have done that. Don't make it. Because you're gonna waste a lot of efforts and you're gonna build something that nobody wants. Because the thing that people want is not what you think they want. It's something probably a little bit different. Now here we come back to Drupal. Because Drupal is really good at minimal viable products. Like I've heard so many stories of people that went out and say like, yeah, I was talking with this developer company and they were going to make me my project for like, I don't know how many thousands or tens of thousands of dollars. And then I started looking at Drupal and I started like dropping in a couple of modules. And, you know, two days later I had like this thing and it's doing like almost everything that I wanted to do. And it didn't cost me a dime. Well, except for the time, of course. So Drupal is really good at building minimal viable products. Because it got all these stuff that, like even if you're doing something that's not web technology, you could build quite a lot of minimal viable products using Drupal. Because you got web forms, you got registration, you can get feedback, you can get information from your customers. And then if you're doing a tech startup, there's a bunch of modules that will give you a lot of specific functionality that you can actually go and build the actual product with. But even that will probably be not too expensive. The trap there, again, is, if you're a developer, you're gonna say, oh, I'm gonna make this module. Right? Don't go and try to build your own module. Or unless you really know what you're doing and it's like, you know that it's gonna cost you a day or two. Try to use the existing stuff first and move on from there. Another really good minimal viable product builder is Drupal Gardens. If you're, well, everybody here are Drupalistas, so you could run it yourself. But if you need quick feedback, this is really easy. And it's really inexpensive and it's just click click and you don't even have to go and mess with modules. So that's something to think about. Another key term in agile startups is pivots. You know, in basketball, you can pivot where you keep one foot on the ground. You can turn around, you've seen that. Now in lean startups, that means that you can take everything you've learned before and change in the direction where you think you've got the best market potential. So instead of like dropping everything, so you're not changing business, you're making a pivot. You're taking, you've learned a bunch of stuff from your minimal viable products, like in a couple of iterations, couple of weeks, you've learned a whole lot of stuff. Most likely when you have a new idea, you will not end up building that idea. If you would have just gone build it, you would have ended up building that idea. But it wouldn't have been the right thing. Because when you start doing this customer development, you'll find out that people actually want different things. And you'll be able, or you'll find out that there's no money in a certain thing. Like, for example, everybody should have gotten one of these on their chair. You can get these at the Microsoft boot. This is one of our minimal viable products that we've built. Basically what we thought was wouldn't it be cool if you could make a QR code that you can assign on the spot? So you got a booklet of these things in your pocket and you just pull out one, stick it on something. And then we thought, oh, this is gonna be great. It's like big consumer market. We're gonna be the next, well, I don't know, localized Twitter kind of thing or something, or something digital will be lots of fun. Then we started really thinking about it, getting feedback from people, building the first prototype. We started realizing that this is not gonna work. We're, first of all, there's a lot of legal difficulties because you're the responsible publisher. So you don't want to go and create booklets, random booklets that you just, people can print out themselves and put on stuff. And then they come after you because it's pointing to your website. So we started like we made a pivot. And then we came up with this, which is a merchandise. So built merchandise that has a unique barcode. So that every sticker that you've got here is unique. So when you scan it, you get to an assigned page. You can say where it should redirect. You save it. Next time somebody scans it, they're redirected to that page. And they're themed in the DrupalCon team. So we tried this. We're looking at it. But now what we've learned doing this, like in a small way, not to like, ooh, we go all the way, is learned that's actually we're probably not the right company to do this one then because this one requires a lot of sales. So we learned a lot of stuff along the way. And it was lots of fun, of course. But what I want to say is like being able to make pivots and figure out, like, take whatever you learned and then act on that is really important. So those were like the basic concepts of lean startups. Now I want to spend a little bit of time on this thing. I don't know, has anybody read this, the startup genome project? How many people hands? Okay, that's great. Lots of new. So there's these guys. And they started doing like real scientific research or like real statistic research in what makes a startup successful. There's so many startups, tech startups now popping up that it becomes quite easy to do that actually. And what they've done is set up a questionnaire looking at how much funding your company had, what kind of growth phases you went through, what kind of founders you have. And basically they make a model and they then try to group these different types of startups in a statistical way. And they made a report and the report is available online. If you, oh, I didn't put a URL. Well, if you look for a startup genome project, you'll find it. It's really, really, really useful. I learned a ton from it, like this thing. What kind of startup are you? Are you more technical or more businessy? This slide is slightly off today because of the news. But I didn't foresee that. But if you look at these two people, like this is, he's an Uber geek, right? Steve Jobs is still fairly geeky but he's quite a bit more businessy. I took these people because they're like probably some of the biggest icons in tech world today. But what I want to show you that is look at yourself, look at your founder team. Like who are you? Are you technical? Most likely because you're in DrupalCon, probably you're technical. Or are you businessy? Do you have somebody who's really good at sales and all that stuff? Because that will have a significant impact on the type of business that you'll be able to successfully build. You can't just, you know, not anybody can do any type of company. And that's like some of the most interesting information that I got out of this report. I'll come to the types now. So first of all, like, I'm going to talk about four types of startups. And slightly dissect them and what kind of makes them special. And like what kind of team is able to do them. So first, the authorizer. This is good for people like us. It's highly technical. Basically you take something that's hard to do, that's technically hard to do. Like, I'll give a couple of examples after this slide. And you build a website that will automatically do that. That's the, that's the optimizer type of business. And what's interesting there is that you don't need salespeople for this kind of tool. They're self-selling. You put them online, you have to get to some little bit of virality, but in the end they'll carry themselves. You don't have to talk with customers. You don't have to go and visit customers and all that stuff. It's not necessary. And that's the kind of thing, if you're very technical, you probably want to do one of these. These are a couple of examples. There's some really big names here. But if you look at them, if you analyze them, they're actually optimizers. Because like SlideShare, the publishing of presentations, that used to be pretty hard before SlideShare. Like doing that in a nice way. So they optimized that. That's the kind of business that's, that's one of the key businesses that we are good at as a community. Next one is the social transformer. These are getting more interesting. These are things that work through network effects. Probably you need a little bit of business, like insights, but probably with a technical team, you can still get pretty far with this kind of, this kind of web startup. Like the idea here is that this is not like Dropbox you saw in the last slide. Because Dropbox worked from day one. You didn't have to have X amount of people already on the platform to make it interesting. So this type of startups needs X amount of people to make it interesting before they can start. And these are really, really interesting type of startups because they're they're the highest impact. They will change the world. And I think, well, that's might be your goal to change the world or make an awesome product. I'll get back to that in a second. Some examples, you know these, right? These are very visible. Everybody knows them. And they're big examples for a lot of people that want to build startups. Next type that they identified in the startup genome project is the integrator. And this is also interesting. These are companies that take a technology like Facebook. And they built a platform for small business for it. So they are like, but since they're working for small business, they need salespeople. They need internal salespeople. People that are not too expensive. So you don't have to go fly them around the world. They sit in your office and they're talking with customers and like making SMEs feel comfortable with buying your product. But the caveat is that for this kind of business, you need businesspeople, right? Because you need sales. It's not as hardcore as people going door to door or going into companies, but it's already a bit harder. So for technical people, if you have a pure technical team, probably not such a good idea. These are a couple of examples. They're less visible. Probably you know one or two. But like if you see like dim dim, that's been bought by Salesforce. I think actually Salesforce should be on the slide also. It's also going after small and medium sized businesses. They also have internal sales. They also have internal sales. So people that will answer the phone and call you up. Like when you place an order or you log in, they call you up. Yeah, they do. So yeah, those are a couple of examples of that. And the fourth type, that's the challenger. These are interesting companies. Like because what they do is they take a technology and they like run it all the way. They go after the enterprise. They're like Acrea, right? They will take a technology and beef up their Salesforce and then go and sell it to those people that normally wouldn't buy it until somebody actually goes and talks with them and convinces them. For this type of business, you really need somebody who does business. You really need a business founder. Somebody who's done it before, who knows how to build up a Salesforce. Because if you don't build up a Salesforce, you're not gonna win this. You're not gonna get far with this. These are businesses that are like that. Like Sun, MySQL. Like they were, yeah, big time. Oracle, there's a very clear fit. It might, like Salesforce. Well, they've got both branches, I think. They also go after SMEs, but I guess they also go after big business. So those were the four types. Now, one thing that I didn't really talk about is what's your goal? What are you in for? What do you really want to reach with building a company? Do you want to earn a lot of money? Do you want to build an awesome product? Or do you want to change the world? Hook world's alter? And it's really important to think about this because as a founder, myself, I felt this before that you can easily get the caught in the daily business of running your business and getting enough money in and growing the business, getting more customers, running projects that you easily can forget about what are you really doing this for? And if you forget, you're probably gonna, you're not gonna be all that happy or you're not gonna be as happy as you could be. Or you're not gonna get where you want to be. If you're in for this, for changing the world, you're gonna be running different types of businesses. You're gonna be, probably you're not gonna be running an integrator, right? Because integrators, they're cool, but it's been done before and targeting SMEs, probably it's a good business, but it's not gonna change the world, right? So that's, I'm gonna change gear now. So, so far, I've been talking about lean startups and kind of the basic concepts for that. Is everything clear so far? Everybody's still here, nobody went dozing out. It's hangover day today, DrupalCon. So the next thing I want to talk about is a bit about the future. Like, where are we going now? What are the possibilities? How do I see all this? Why is this room full, right? Because if you, well, it's almost full. Maybe there's some people upstairs still. But why are so many people looking to make products in Drupal? And well, probably it's because you're thinking similar things as me, which is probably something like this. Probably you're not thinking this, though. Who has heard before of the Cambrian explosion? Yeah. Few people, for the other people. Cambrian explosion is a concept that came up as a theory that was developed by geologists because they were looking at the fossil records. Again, by, you know, biologists seeping in back. We're going back to my roots. And what they found, this picture is just random, right? This is not the Cambrian layer, it's just showing nice layers and it was creative comments, that's why I took it. But what it shows is layered stuff. And if you know a little bit about geology, I think everybody knows that now from National Geographic and stuff. Then you know that there's fossils in these regions. What they found was that there was this one layer, the Cambrian layer, where before there was like very little diversity. And then after that layer, it just suddenly boomed. Like there were so many different business models, building models, so many different types of organisms that suddenly were created. And so it's interesting to think about, why did that happen? How come that suddenly from fairly boring ecosystems, you get to this whole diversity complex kind of thing? And that is basically because of evolutionary triggers. What are evolutionary triggers? They figured out, well, one of the main theory right now is that at the Cambrian age, there was so much oxygen in the atmosphere that suddenly there was enough food, there was enough resources to start doing really different things, right? I think today we're in a similar period for the human race. Oh no, we're talking really big. But if you look at what's going on today, there's so many changes that have happened. There's so many liberations. Like today you can build a startup on a shoestring budget and build it into a million dollar business. It's possible. A lot of people are doing it today. A lot of people fail, obviously. But it's because of these three things. It's open source because there's a lot of software that you get out of the box that does a lot of stuff already just out of the box. It's cloud computing because you don't need to buy a whole server park and plan for becoming really big or going down miserably when you hit it big. And you can just scale. Your business runs well, great. No problem, just add a couple of instances and you're fine. There's nothing big deal about that anymore. And mobile. Mobile is gonna change everything. Oh, it's already changing everything. I think most people here have smartphones. Like imagine going back 20 years ago and telling people that you would have this thing in your pocket that's actually like a computer and it's connected to the internet and you can like at the touch of a button you can find anything. It's just insane. It's like it's redefining business so much, everything. Not just IT, everything. It's touching everything. And these three things together mean that these tools, this technology is now available to anybody. Anybody can go and build a startup. It's not expensive. It's not hard. You just need an idea and some persistence to go after it. And I believe there's this giant big value explosion that's going on right now. A value like after leveling the playing field, the playing field of all the, I can do it Drupal shops. That we could go and grab. And yeah, I think that's in this new Cambridge and IT explosion. I think there's gonna be a lot of new business models that will be built. And probably the business model canvas will be one of the tools that a lot of people will be using. This lean methodology, customer development. Those are all the tools that will help you to be one of them, to be one of those. Conclusion. These are five things that if you're serious about building your own product you should go and do. Maybe not today, maybe not tonight. But in the next week at least, it's like, read about these mental models. They'll really help you to get the new understandings and insights. Get the business model canvas. Go and fill it out. If you got a product idea, you need to do that. Three, read the startup genome project report. It's awesome. There's a lot of work with it still, but there's a lot of knowledge in there that will help you better understand what you're doing. For me, at least it did. Figure out what kind of company you want to be. Do you want to be changing the world or earning a lot of cash? Or do you want to be selling in a huge yacht by the time you're a pensioner? Or are you rather going to take a risk and build something that will change the world and that you can brag to your grandchildren about? Make a choice. Pick one. There's different options, but they have different parts. Five, start building minimal viable products, MVPs today. Maybe that's something you could do today. Now, again, a change of tech. One other thing that I think is valuable is, or that's an interesting evolution. I don't know yet if it's going to run. I don't know how it will work, but one of the things that in our ecosystem could be like a good platform to create a bunch of value, like a new marketplace is this whole app store business thing. Now, I know a lot of people have very strong opinions about that and I agree with them, but I think if we do it right and if we do it, if we don't let other people do it, like if we don't do it, somebody from outside our community will do it and they'll run with it. If we do it, we can do it in such a way that we'll actually strengthen our community and we'll create a new marketplace, a new platform on which a bunch of different business models can be built and a lot of different new businesses can be started. And my understanding of that would be that you would take the people that are building distributions, you take the people that want to build applications, you take the hosting companies, you put them all together under one umbrella and you help them make their own application store. App store. Maybe that could be a cooperative, in our good, almost socialist ideas. It would be about business, it would be about earning money. It wouldn't be for free because we all have to live and write. We can do a lot of stuff for free and do a lot of stuff for free, but at the end of the day, I've got a family to feed and you all have and you can't live from free. Free is great and it helps you, but it should not be your only focus. And then probably most of the bits that you produce should be on Drupal.org. And I think if we do this right, it could be something that can help grow our community and diversify. Because if you look at Drupal, it's like this giant fractal. The Drupal itself, it's to some extent actually, but the Drupal community for sure, everybody knows what's a fractal. So like you start it, we do small, grows, starts branching, grows, start branching, like everywhere it keeps branching and growing in a lot of different niches. That's really what we have to help. This is what we should do as Drupal shops, as Drupal business owners, as startups. Because if we all do the same, we're gonna end up in a zero sum game. We're all gonna be competing for the same resources and have to fight with each other. And that's no fun. Let's diversify. There's plenty of new resources and new opportunities out there that we can go after and do in a more collaborative way. So bottom line is don't be a bottom feeder. This is a fossil from a cockroach. They've been along for a very long time. They're probably gonna be along for a very long time, but they're not all that sexy. And they're not ruling the planet. At the moment we are, it might change. But bottom line is you should try to diversify. Don't try to do what everybody else is already doing, because it's not fun and it's probably a bad business. And with that, there's more barcodes. If you want to follow me on Twitter, if you want to hook up on LinkedIn, ping me, or come for a stock with me, if you want to hook up on LinkedIn, then we can get connected. And if you like this presentation, definitely go and evaluate it. If you didn't like it, you might consider. But that's something that's the organizers asked. I totally changed the slide because I use open office and I didn't want it to grok it. But I think the QR code is more fun. So go and rate my session. And one more announcement. I'm thinking about creating a Drupal product camp that probably be in Europe, probably in Ghent, probably this fall. It's not sure yet. There's a group on Drupal.org for products. If you search for, I think, if you search for my name and product summits or something, you'll probably find it, or ping me, if you're interested. What it would be, it would be probably an open space where a bunch of people with similar, that are also building companies, come together and share experiences. Very agile. And with that, I would like to thank you for your attention. Are there any questions? I'll first go with you. I do, oh yeah, just say and I'll repeat. Very interesting. The question is what do you think about the strategy of phase two? I think, well, they're doing it different. So first of all, they've got multiple distributions. And I'm sure they're, well, I can't talk for them. I'm not phase two, but I'm sure that they should be able to use, to leverage those distributions to do something interesting. Probably could be through something like an app store, potentially, but you should ask them. But I think the thing that they have to come up against is the general negative feeling against app stores and the whole idea from the community. So if you want to build apps, if you want to be in that business, or if you want to build distributions, come to my meetup, because we're gonna talk about that there. About amongst others. I think first, mixle. So the question was, if you show all the companies like Oracle and stuff, where would you put IBM? Well, IBM is a bit older. Yeah, so they focus on service innovation. But if you look at them, I think in the bottom line, they're really going out selling. And they're really going, I think they're going pretty much after enterprise, I think. Well, but they're so much beyond startup that probably they've diversified in so many directions. It's hard to say now. But I would say that probably there, since they're going more for the enterprise market, I would put them as a challenger rather, back in the days for sure. Now, in certain fields, definitely also. Yeah, integration and that kind of stuff. Yes, I think so, yeah, thanks. So, yeah, okay. Yeah, so the question is like, how are you gonna get funding if you don't know where you're going? Well, the first phase, when you're doing your discovery, you don't need money. Like, you can do this really in your garage. You just do it on your own money. And that can be very little. It's like, depending on where you live, obviously it's gonna be less or more. If you live in a cheaper area, you can go pretty long while on a little money. And you could be doing a lot of prototypes like that. And then the moments that you come into validation, like I didn't show the different stages. So you got discovery, validation, kind of cleanup, and then scaling. Those are like the four phases that every startup should go through. If you look at the discovery, you don't really need money for that. So what you want to do is come to a point where you're ready for validation, at least, or you're already validating before you go and get money. Because then you have like a market fit. Probably, you know, even going to investors could be part of your minimal viable product. That could be part of your strategy. Seeing if anybody wants to invest in the ideas. If they don't want to invest, probably, yeah, you're not gonna make it work. So you have to go and make a pivot. Sure, sure, even in discovery phase, you need to eat. But like, so what can you do? First of all, like what we are doing and several others are doing is build a service business and, you know, build that up and run your products in parallel. That's one. Two, get a job first and save some cash, save some cash, live a bit nimble, and then stay living nimble until you have your minimal viable product sorted out. You really need very little money like that. If you live with your parents, it's really cheap. I wouldn't recommend that though. But you know, you're a business person. You're an entrepreneur. Well, there's a difference between business and entrepreneur. You're an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurial spirits, like the more things that are against you, the better you work. The more innovative you'll be. If money is like really biting you, like you're almost out of cash, you'll get really creative. So, and it might even be good to have like a clear runway, like, okay, I'm gonna run out of cash by that month. We have to move fast. Like, tomorrow I put out a minimal viable product and I'll get the information now. So it really helps you reshape your thinking because there's really interesting things. There's been these agile meetups around the world. There's a few in London also. And what they see there, like you should go and read Steve Blank's blog. They're running like what they see, they run a class and like sometimes they have this agile startup meetups where like teams come together and in like two days, they're gonna build a product. Two days, right? And they see that some people, they're really good at this. They in like half a day, they got a minimal viable product and they're already testing like, you know, a couple of hours in the show. And then other people, they can't get anything done. They're still talking, still figuring out what they want to do. So what that shows is that it's a lot about your mindset. It's about making that shift from, I'm not building my final product. I'm building something that's going to help me learn. That's the most important thing that you have to do. You have to make that shift. If you don't make that, you're gonna keep, you know, running with running wheels. Sorry, Steve Blank, let's see. I think it's like this blank. Let's see, I got him, yeah, I think it's this one. He's pretty cool. And he's running, he's actually, I think at Stanford, he's running a course. So you can get the slides. There's some crazy people that are making a lawnmower robot in his course, very interesting reading. So yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's the core message. Just, yeah. You also had a question or announcements, maybe? I have a buff at half one, where I'm gonna show you guys possibly three techniques that will help you or could help you. And if you're also interested in going diving a little bit deeper, then come to my buff. Lean user experience. Techniques to go a little bit further into customer discovery and customer development. More questions? Still? Okay, then I would like to thank you again. Thanks.