 All right, I think we're good to go Hey guys, my name is Alonso and I'm going to be doing I'm gonna be talking a little bit about Gutenberg So I guess my first question is Just to gauge the room who would describe themselves as primarily a developer cool What about primarily as a designer? Cool, what about primarily as an entrepreneur? Okay, and what about as just a user and Ain't nothing wrong with that just Cool, awesome. Well, I'm gonna talk a little bit about Gutenberg and the way that I'm gonna do a little demo And then talk about the ways that I think it's gonna change the wordpress paradigm And the I sure I assure use a reference to a movie I really like from back in the day clerks For those of you that get that So anyway, so feel free to text me during my presentation And I'll try and answer any questions I get by text at the end. I know some of you guys are Maybe not super excited to ask questions in front of a huge crowd So there's that and then also I'll be around the whole day And feel free to come up to me if you have questions or comments or thoughts Just to tell you a little bit about me I am the CEO at 11 online we're a software development shop in Albuquerque, New Mexico and We do wordpress still I think we're doing a lot more Application dev mobile and web application dev, but we still do wordpress. We started out as basically a wordpress exclusive development shop I've been working with wordpress since 2015. I and then our company started a block party This year, I think it came out in April when Gutenberg was supposed to be merged into core Supposed to being the important part there And as I mentioned, I don't really write a ton of code these days and that's probably good for everyone But wordpress is still a very important part of our business and I love wordpress and so yeah so You guys probably some of you guys probably know about Gutenberg and Mostly from the controversy of the implementation. Is that would you would you guys say that that's a fair assessment? people have heard about Gutenberg and I think a lot people have the idea that it's going to mess everything up or We're gonna you know, someone's gonna fork wordpress with the classic editor and I do I don't dismiss definitely the Problems with implementation the way that projects sort of started and the communication issues But I'm not gonna really focus on any of that stuff because it's coming You know kind of whether or not we want it to come it's coming So I'm more focused on how it's gonna change us and what we do So as of a couple weeks ago, I think it was announced that the plan is to merge Gutenberg into core in August And that in the very near future in July, there's gonna be a minor update of wordpress It's going to encourage people to install Gutenberg With 5.0, I think it's gonna get merged So what is it it's the new editor Right for those of you developers you guys know that the current editor is Uses this library called tiny mce spent around for a long time So tiny mce is getting replaced by this thing called Gutenberg And although tiny mce is a somewhat what you see is what you get experience I know you guys especially that build wordpress sites know that that's not really true At least certainly not in the wordpress context You might put in things in the editor and get something completely different on the front and depending the way the theme is coded But Gutenberg is set up to be a true WYSIWYG experience and The the paradigm is different in that your content is broken up into blocks And so if any of you guys have used Squarespace for example, I know that's like a dirty word around here But if any of you guys have used something like that, there's you know There's a kind of drag and drop blocks a bit. So it's it's kind of moving in that in that kind of direction, right? Wordpress 5.0 with Gutenberg merged. It's going to launch with some simple blocks I'm gonna demo all this stuff just by the way, but you can build custom blocks. You can install plugins that add custom blocks And as I mentioned before there's there's definitely a lot of implementation controversy But again, I'm not really gonna get into all that. That's that's probably someone else's talk All right I'm going to try and do a demo That's usually what happens when I do demos something to that effect So When you install Gutenberg, so by the way right now you have to install Gutenberg. It's a plugin on the repo. Just look it up Don't install I would not advise on installing it on a production site yet. It's not a finished product So take your whatever your favorite local Development environment, whether it's you know some kind of virtual machine or whatever it might be Or a staging site or you know something that you don't have to necessarily show in public Install Gutenberg and what happens is by default the You know any new posting pages Use the Gutenberg editor and what's really neat is when you install Gutenberg. There is actually I'll show you If you when you install Gutenberg, can you guys see that or should I zoom in? Zooming in is better. Yeah, when you install Gutenberg if you take a look See right there you get that menu and then it says Demo if you click that you're gonna see this and it's a demo of a Gutenberg post It says welcome to the Gutenberg editor and so This is what it looks like on the back end. This is a title This is a cover image block All right, what's really neat is if the theme supports it you can do full-width Blocks right like full width of the Other viewport, so if you take a look it's pretty neat and The way Gutenberg works is for many blocks, right? You have settings that you can adjust within the block. So I can make this There you go So you have settings within the block right you can do alignments and so forth And then you have advanced settings off Over there Right, so I have it on fixed background, but you don't need to right you hit update refresh on this side and It's it's it's a fixed image now, right Whereas before I'm sorry it what it If you take a refresh now it's now it's fixed and it's kind of like that fake parallax effects or thing going on So anyway, I'm just going to walk you through kind of some of these other this is a text block right you can do different alignments This is a heading block another text block. This is an image block You can do captions very similar, right? But I think what I want to highlight here an important piece is that this Actually looks very similar to this Just about the same thing and I Think that is the that is the big difference, right? How many people that build WordPress sites how many you guys use? Metaboxes custom meta boxes Like advanced custom fields or CMB to or there's different and then you know you have page builders that build in meta boxes and stuff like that so So yeah, it's a it's a it's a different thing right and you know You put content in each meta box each meta box is styled, but oftentimes on the front end it looks like one thing And back in it looks like a completely different thing So that's how this paradigm is different Again These are the very simple blocks that are going to ship with Gutenberg. So this is a gallery Gallery block right you can add add images, right? Etc. You can change the note. You can change the columns here in this In the setting for the gallery, right? How many guys use plugins to build galleries? Probably probably some no So yeah, this is actually a pretty neat and different solution Easier solution in my mind And again, you can check that out, you know, you have video embed blocks and all sorts of stuff, right? And that's it. That's the that's the default Gutenberg install with the default blocks, okay And so you might think okay. Well, that's not that big a deal. Who cares, right? It's a slightly better way to create content All right, awesome And I think from my standpoint if that's all Gutenberg was then I wouldn't be excited about that but I want to show you something different so This is a post I Made in Gutenberg. By the way, the theme is just using the Gutenberg theme There's a theme that you can use with Gutenberg. It supports full width. That's about it It's basically underscores that supports full width So what I did is I made I I was too lazy to actually write a Post on baseball and so I baseball Ipsum did a little bit here and So when I came to the United States as a kid my My dad was a med student in Mount Sinai Hospital, Manhattan, and we lived in Queens and Woodside and so we moved to the United States in 1985 so it's four years old and If anyone of you guys knows anything about baseball The great New York baseball team at that time was not the anchors of the Mets and we live in Queens and In 1986 they won the World Series. Anyway, long story short I became a Met fan at that that point I saw games in 86 and 87 and 88 and It's been a lot of sadness ever since but What I want to show you is the possibilities of what you can create with Gutenberg with some custom blocks and How many guys read? Sports blog posts blogs Okay, I like baseball. I like football and a lot of times you read these blog posts especially like the You know Saber metrics statistic blog posts and they have a lot of data visualization, right? Charts sheet, you know tables, etc and so So I you know using some custom blocks that we at my company made I Wanted to show you the some of the possibilities, so We take a look Here's the title heading block paragraph block and this is a custom block that we made called Pie charts for block party Okay, and if I click on it Here I can set the title and I can add values Right and slices essentially, right? Add slices over here. So let me add a slice And What's neat is you get a preview? Right below right and if you'll notice our chart updated With the slice added I can add more slices. I can Change the colors in each slice Over here. I can explode a slice Over here. So for example, I Exploded contrarians who hate the Yankees These are by the way, this chart is the origin of met fandom okay, and So I can explode a slice here. I can make my pie chart 3d over here right I Can adjust the position of the legend. So if I wanted to be on the left instead put it on the left I can set the height etc and Let's not make this 3d I can rotate the pie chart whatever way I want Etc. I can can make a donut hole Anyway, if you dig that sort of stuff and then I hit I hit update and it updates at some point Oh, yeah, I did and I give this a refresh and BAM I have a pie chart and and I don't know if there any met fans in the room, but I think probably these two cover it Majority-wise I Had to throw this in there because I I have a friend that this is exactly why Just has a bad relationship with his dad and his dad likes the Yankees. So Anyway Okay, so let me kind of scroll down and again more baseball ipsum and then I made I made a line chart and I Called it met losses in the last four years if you'll notice in 2018 the 47 losses so far. We're not even at the all-star break So that's bad and Yeah, you know you can visualize it you can set so the way we have it set up you can set the access label format You can set grid lines You can make a curve or not This is a kind of neat setting to just sort of make it bigger And then you can you can set an area Some of these settings, you know, so a lot of this stuff is just Google data visualization stuff that we hooked in essentially and Yeah, anyway hit update and This is what it looks like on this end And you know like I like I said that is going to be up here probably by the end of the year But yeah, so anyway, then I want to show off a Carousel or slider, right? How many guys use plugins make sliders? Who is happy with their slider plug-in? Yeah What is it? Revolution, okay. Hey not to talk smack on revolution, but Have you guys ever heard of the Panama Papers? Just look up revolution slider Panama Papers on Google in your spare time. Anyway So you look at the carousel you look at the carousel I've never used a carousel that I really loved and you know, I think most of the time It's like with revolution slider. You can do a lot of things, but a lot of times when we're building sites We don't want to give clients of five million options You know, we want to keep it simple for them so they can focus on the content And so, you know, I've always felt like this this process of making a slider and wordpress has always been kind of a pain and so This is how you make a slider with this custom Gutenberg block You can select images You can add a caption so see here traded to division rival All right kills us every time right and You can you know rearrange a position You can Apply a backdrop opacity, right so you see what happens there You can set and then the advanced settings for the whole slider you can Set an autoplay interval you can do rounded corners. You can show indicators or not You can show the image captions description so forth, right? Hit update and there you go made my slider of that's great and as you'll see in The spirit of a true met fan. I can't really focus on the positives Why would that be so? You know for the most part, you know, oh, yeah, that's Nolan Ryan Retreated him in the 60s. He only became like one of the greatest pitchers ever But anyway, yeah somehow we'll screw this up, I know we will we'll figure some way out So so yeah, so that's a that's a slider in Gutenberg with with our custom block So we also made a pop-up block like a modal block, right and so It's called Mets no hitters Here's a pop-up title. I threw in a video And then you can set the animation, right? So if this is something it really Moves you you can set how it Display how the size of it you can set the animation You can do all kinds of stuff colors and so forth and Check this out you can watch a You can watch a Met throw no hitter. Sorry MLB. Okay, they'll probably sue me here. So But notice notice that his arm fell off right after this it did actually He threw the no hitter was amazing and then he was never the same Anyway So yeah, how many of you guys have like put in modals and pop-ups and things and wordpress in a post Let's say or tried to It's a drag, you know again. I've used wordpress a lot and it's just it's a pain. So, you know being able to have a Dragon drop solution That's that's fairly easy to use is good and then the last one I want to show off is Again, it's another custom block. It's called statistic, right? You know with a lot of the blocks that we built we tried to just you know build your your kind of basic Web design UI, I don't love sliders and I don't love pop-ups and I don't love Statistics, but we just tried to think of the kinds of design patterns and UI that people use all the time in wordpress and so This is one I see all the time right and for this one you can set the color and you can set set it to count up right and so So that's the way it looks There we go right 22 You know 1986 five years old A lot of sadness ever since But um, but that's not why you're a met fan, you know for happiness come on Anyway, so So so yeah, that's just an example of what's possible with Gutenberg I think that for a lot of people they might install Gutenberg they might play around the blocks and think okay, whatever This is what's possible And you're gonna see a lot of groups companies individuals put out custom blocks For for Gutenberg for the new editor by the way, it's it's Gutenberg now, but it's just the new editor very soon Right, it's just gonna be part of the thing So this these are the possibilities imagine giving your clients, let's say you're an entrepreneur You have a wordpress business giving your clients the ability to Create really really rich content easily like that Without having them call you and adding whatever it's you really it's it's I think I really believe it's going to Create a situation where you can deliver a lot of a lot of value for your clients Okay So that was a demo I'm really happy that that went relatively smoothly No burning Christmas tree Okay, so I'm just again. I'm just gonna cover Just gonna cover These are my opinions and they're always subject to change because things change all the time Just these are my opinions and I'm sure there's gonna be people that might disagree and that's totally cool So for content creators, it's it's WYSIWYG finally for real Why are there page builders Why does wordpress have a lot of why are there page builder plugins? It's a meeting a need right, it's meeting a need and so and One of the benefits of page builders is a lot of times it really is what you see is what you get experience or more So certainly than the default experience So finally We're creating something in core that's going to address a lot of those same concerns You don't need to do things in custom meta boxes anymore So when we build websites for clients We use CMB to We do custom meta boxes and we style the meta boxes all that stuff And I'm sure a lot of you guys that build websites do similar things It's a different paradigm and I'm really really excited at you know having all the post content in one place Again, this is what I was trying to highlight Potentially there's gonna be a wide range of blocks that are gonna let you do lots and lots of cool things easily again, no need to install a Junkie plug-in that has five million settings when your clients only need to There's gonna be a I think there's gonna be a whole ecosystem of Gutenberg blocks out there real soon and and you know it's Like the best of the page builder without all the junk. So Again, this is my opinion and I'm not saying all page builders are junk. That's not what I'm saying at all What I'm saying is a lot of page builders have a lot of cruft and there's a lot of other issues around page builders in terms of Post content if you want to change themes. You don't want to use that page builder Each page builder has a different way of storing content. So it's there's a there's a lot of issues So this is a This is going to eventually be a page builder without all the cruft of a lot of these page builder plugins For developers, this is really key here. What are the changes react? React JS it's not I'm not saying react. I'm saying react.js It's a it's a JavaScript framework for kind of more complex front-end stuff and Gutenberg is react-powered There's there's a PHP side to it But it's react-powered and so for a lot of developers that are very accustomed to being PHP guys and kind of In their in their lane for WordPress development. This is a major learning challenge What's really cool about this for for my company is we we do a lot of react work in our application dev work and so For us it was just kind of a natural Hey, this is awesome. It kind of combines a lot of stuff. We're doing right now With theme theme development, it's gonna be different. It's gonna be block based You're still gonna have templates, but they're gonna be templates of locked-in blocks And So I think I think the whole theme development standard theme development workflow that a lot of people use is gonna change I don't exactly know the how but I some ideas and We're starting to build sites for Gutenberg to use with Gutenberg. So I'm really excited to see how theme development involves So for those of you that maintain sites when 5.0 comes out You're probably gonna have to do things to keep your clients happy or at least not have them freak out That's that's challenging and I'm not certainly I'm not trying to be the preach the gospel of Gutenberg. It's coming whether or not we want it it's coming and And certainly those in the business of supporting clients They're gonna have challenges. That's that there's no doubt, but where there's challenges. There are opportunities Right. So for example a lot of our clients that we've been building sites for a long time, you know We've let them know. Hey, this is a new thing You know, we can build your site to take advantage of this and make it a lot easier for your content creators And a lot of people are really interested and then we're moving we're proceeding. So there's there's opportunities here So yeah, you know people focus on the challenges and it's important to think to think those things through but I think It's also equally important if you're an entrepreneur to to take the plunge And I think here's another thing is you know The custom blocks that we've built for block party. They're just for the world, but we're gonna be building custom blocks that are following brand specifications for our clients And so again, that's another you know, unless you do like beaver-builder modules You're probably not really doing stuff like that right now. Exactly. So that's another another change for developers For the site assemblers and and what I mean by that and I don't mean that pejoratively in any way What I mean by that is people that aren't necessarily developers, but they use page builders or other instruments to kind of create their sites well, eventually and Again, I say eventually because Gutenberg's still not there. It's it's you know, what is end of June? Suppose we merge in the core and there's still a lot of issues and still a lot things will work out And I'm a little bit suspicious that August is actually a real Merged date, but I think eventually it will be It will be the built-in page builder that is the go-to And then of course, you know just to let you know that there's a lot of legacy plugins I may not support Gutenberg right when it comes out Plugins that this haven't necessarily been updated in a while That's just something to think about Okay, this is where I get excited You know, I'm Don't really love the word entrepreneur, but I guess there's not really a business person For a long time in my professional life. I kind of fought against that at some point I just learned to just accept the fact that I am who I am I get excited about building things and Making things and making things happen So whatever that is I'm that and so for those of you that are on the same page with that This is an enormous disruption in the WordPress ecosystem. I mean, it's the biggest one in a long time and When there's disruption there is opportunity there's a tremendous amount of opportunity And for us the way we look at it is it's an opportunity for us to specialize To differentiate and it's an opportunity for us to stop being a Local agency. I mean we do work around the country, but still a lot of our WordPress bread and butter is local It's a chance for us to become something more than that in the WordPress space And it's not just for us. I think it's for everyone So there's a tremendous amount tremendous amount of opportunities Finally I Think it's important to when when thinking about this thinking about the controversy I think it's important to focus on a couple questions I'm gonna actually start with the middle question, which is why did I come to Grand Rapids to do this talk? I'm all I'm all the way out in Albuquerque, right? Why did I want to come out here? Why did I apply? Graciously accepted to talk Because I don't know too much about Grand Rapids my wife saw your guys's video the American Pie one and She was like, oh, yeah the American pie. Yeah, I was like, yeah, yeah I don't know too much about Grand Rapids. I've been to Michigan a couple of times, but never here and But what I do know, it's not a big city. It's not Detroit. It's not Chicago, right? And so I see a lot of overlap in that sense with Albuquerque definitely not You know what or was Albuquerque famous where we're, you know, it's where bug bunny made bugs bunny made the wrong turn, right? Breaking bad or something like that. Yeah, so so I See that probably there's a lot of similarities in our ecosystems and So for me, I'm just excited to Tell Specifically the entrepreneurs, but really everyone This is a huge opportunity. This isn't a tremendous opportunity and it's a tremendous opportunity to differentiate and I want to share that with you guys because You know, I'm a met fan. I root for the underdog You know, so who's WordPress for right, you know, what do I like we don't do a tremendous amount of WordPress work anymore at my company? Part of that is because it's really hard to scale and grow just doing WordPress in New Mexico, you know New Mexico is Like that, you know, it's at the bottom of everything You know If it weren't for Mississippi and Alabama, you know We you know, I know nothing against them I'm just saying, you know, like when they release all the statistics, you know, as we're like 48 or whatever So, you know, we're not exactly the wealthiest state and so so in order to kind of grow our company we've had to do other kinds of work, but WordPress what I love about WordPress and what I love about word camp is that This is the you know, this is the you know, for me, this is the people's platform In a way that other platforms and other technologies aren't it's for us the DIYers right it's for us that like to make things happen and deliver value to clients or just create kind of what we want online and so Fundamentally I see Gutenberg as just an improvement on the platform that has already given us so much and I'm all about that And what you know again, why are we so passionate about WordPress in the ecosystem because when I started with WordPress in 2015 I went to the Albuquerque WordPress meetup and People were so welcoming and so excited and you know, I didn't know what I was doing It was just starting out as a you know developer in WordPress didn't didn't know a ton They're so welcoming so excited. You know, I've been to other developer conferences software development conferences it's a different vibe and So, you know for me, I don't do things just because you know, I'm not completely motivated by money You know, I'm an entrepreneur but part of the reason that I'm an entrepreneur is I get to do what I want be independent and You know make the life. I want for me professionally. So To me like I've always felt like WordPress gave my company an opportunity to grow and and you know, we're very much indebted and so again like Focusing on the controversy is fine. I mean to me it just It is what it is. There were a lot of mistakes made a lot of miscommunications and so forth, but If you try it and you use it and especially if you get a chance to use some custom blocks It's better Again, that's my opinion It's better. It's a better experience and that's what we want We want a better experience for clients and we want a better experience for ourselves So yeah, that's about it. That's all I got Let me take the questions If I had any Okay, how will Gutenberg handle what is currently in meta boxes For instance on one side I have CPT that uses advanced custom fields blah blah blah, etc. Okay Lot of plug-ins will so the plan and currently what what goes on is like let's say you use like a plug-in like Yoast Right and probably a lot of you guys use Yoast or some something like that Right and what what happens is you get meta boxes below, right that allow you to make tweaks to the SEO settings They just show up below the post content right now Specifically what happens with ACF? I don't know. We don't use ACF So I don't have a complete answer to that boy. I will say is that You know like that the default behavior is that the custom meta boxes will stay they'll just be below the post content How easy will it be to create custom blocks great question It took our senior dev who's a react guy a day to kind of wrap his head around what was going on and It took probably a week for him to build the pie chart block to where it was in a stable place But you know he's a talented guy And I think it won't be it depends where you're at if you're just a PHP guy and that's what you do You're gonna have to learn react and that's a different paradigm right so with react you have you're gonna need to Know how to use npm You're gonna need to know probably how to use web pack There's a whole JavaScript Implementation and deployment workflow that you're gonna have to learn So I don't think it's gonna be easy And also by the way the Gutenberg documentation. I can't say is great right now So you have to you just kind of have to figure it out on your own to some extent come up with creative solutions But Gutenberg, you know, it's open source. It's on github. You can contribute to it And so I encourage you guys to take a look at that and contribute as you can See here. What else? Okay, will there be tons of them available on the plug-in repository? I Don't know There are some right now if you type in Gutenberg you'll find some stuff Like the pie chart thing we built I don't know if there's that yet data visualization stuff I don't think I can really talk about our product in any kind of meaningful way Here but feel free to ask me afterwards and I can kind of show you What we've built it's not on the repo yet, but I can show you what we've built You know to me again to be first to market and Ready for when 5.0 comes out and all of a sudden millions of websites are using Gutenberg as a default editor. I think would be a smart business move if you have an agency I'm sorry, I just gonna go through all these first, but I'll get it. Yeah, I'll get to you What happens with the legacy plugins will they still work Yeah, plugins will still work, but but there are some plugins that depend on Tiny emcee to some extent that obviously won't work as as you as you might want There are a lot of really great plugins that are really dependable, but they haven't been updated in a long time I can't speak for that. I think you're gonna have to test it out There is a plug-in There is a plug-in on the repo I believe I can't remember what it's called, but it's a plug-in that lets you test out your sites with Gutenberg It gives you kind of like a report card. So you might want to check that out. I don't Google it I can't remember the name right off the top What do user roles look like with Gutenberg I think the same I don't think that I Don't know for sure, but I haven't run into any issues You know, you're gonna have the same permissions and same same similar idea with the reuse roles as it currently stands More fluent in PHP I thought of becoming more fluent in PHP should I instead now focus on react? oh I don't know like so I went to a coding bootcamp and Long to years ago and I so I go back there and speak sometimes at the coding bootcamp And people always ask me well, what should I learn react? Should I learn view? Should I learn, you know, whatever and I'm just I'm always encouraging people to be polyglots and Just be good software developers You know stick with something learn and you can take a lot of what you learn in PHP and take it to JavaScript It's just different different syntax But a lot of the same principles, you know, they stay the same So if you're just committed to learning the syntax learning the workflow learning some of the quirks You'll be fine So that's not really an answer. Sorry But there's there's still there's still gonna be a lot of work for PHP. I mean there's gonna be you know You know, there's gonna be legacy work and WordPress forever And you know, I think plug-in development is is you know, still gonna be largely a PHP affair depending on what you're doing Okay, any other questions from the crowd? Yes Okay Good question I'm not necessarily sure beyond that. I suspect that Gutenberg posts Are going to be more performant than let's say other page builder posts, right? because the way Gutenberg stores all the post content is HTML comments and and With the depending on which page builder some page builders do all kinds of crazy things like add tables and So so anyway from a performance standpoint, I think that's probably where you're gonna see the biggest difference But Good question. I wish I had a better answer. Sorry. Yes Yeah, so like I said, I don't write a ton of code anymore. My guys built most of the stuff, but Yeah, I think roughly that's right And and the way we have it set up is that we have a plug-in that has a whole bunch of blocks and each block Has its styles, but you know purposefully we try and keep it You know minimal as possible and inherit as many of the theme styles, right as possible, right? It will kind of depend how you build sites What that looks like and I would say this also there's not a clear way to build a Gutenberg block yet I mean, there's not a best practice. This is exactly the way you do it. A lot of people are experimenting with a lot of different Ways to do it so I got like a minute When are they going to add a font list? Make it do it do it yourself. Yes Yes There's a plug-in for that you can go back to tiny MC, but why? No, no, I mean, I know why because your client that has your vintage 2010 site that you've been maintaining for a long time doesn't feel like changing and that's fine Cool. Yeah, so there there will be options. Yes Yeah, I mean, I think yeah, that is a as a best practice. I'm sure that that is going to be the same thing I think the way theme development is going to play out I don't I don't know yet for sure but I think it's going to be templates of blocks that are Kind of laid out so a client will create a new page Using a template and there will be blocks that are just part of the page that they can fill in with content To some extent, I think that's the way it'll start playing out Yes. Oh, yeah, good question. Um, so yeah, that's they haven't tackled that one yet with widgets and and But I suspect That it's gonna go in that direction But yeah, no widgets are yeah, okay. I'm out of time Please feel free to like I'll be around please feel free to come up to me talk to me Thank you guys so much for giving me the opportunity to talk to you guys. I really appreciate it