 What are you sharing with the public? My name is Edwin, and I have ADHD, severe ADHD, I have anxiety. What is ADHD? ADHD is attention deficit hyperactive disorder. I have always had it as a child, but I didn't know. It was diagnosed in 2015. And the anxiety is part of it. When things are very tough for me, I get very anxious. I also had at one point I had depression. Currently it is being handled, so I can say I'm okay. But the ADHD is always present. So that is the challenge. But I have been doing okay for some time now. I see. You said how long did you say you started noticing the signs? Actually, I didn't know. I was in treatment for some other condition. And ADHD was an underlying issue that was actually manifested itself in something totally different. Okay. Mr. James, I'd like to ask, he said that he actually didn't know. He was going to check something else out, and they found out that ADHD was actually an underlying issue. How often does this happen and how can we, I guess, see signs in our children? Unfortunately, in our society today, mental health is something that we do not discuss as often as we should. Mental health is something that is frowned on and upon. And mostly, especially with the particular condition that he mentions, when the manifestations come, society thinks there's just the mischievous child, there's just being naughty, there's just being... So we attach all other labels except the particular condition. So until these other manifestations lead you to a mental health practitioner or professional who is able now to pick the symptoms and inform that this is what we are dealing with, we might never know. Very many people have issues that they can't attach a name to. Right. And they can't get help because they do not know that they exist in the first place. That's true. That's true. And since there's so much stigma on mental health, I'd like to ask Edwin if you've ever undergone any negative, I don't know, I guess, behavior from other people who don't understand what you're going through? I'm very vocal about it. Okay, right. Especially after I learnt about the condition. Yes, you also advocate for mental health. Yes, I do that. So that comes with a lot of stigma at times, from friends, family, workplace. And I know we talk with James on and off. And at times I've called him and told him that somebody has stigmatized me or certain people are stigmatizing me in different sectors. Right. And it's usually very hard for me to even cope with life, but now I also have a very strong support system. But stigma is, it's crazy. I can say it's just crazy. Yes, it is. It puts you down and its aim is to just minimize you and put you down into a level that strip you down of your dignity. To an extent that you wouldn't, if you don't have a good support system, you can find, that's where you find maybe some people even taking their own lives. Yes, yes. So for me, I fear stigma. But the positive side of it is I have a strong support system. I know where to go when things are thick. Right. Yes. And you brought up the issue of suicide. I'd like to go back to James and ask, recently we've been seeing in the papers all over the, all over, I think in every single channel, every single newspaper, at least there's one story about suicide, Auta Kosa. And I think it's just on Saturday those young boy who killed and adolescent who killed himself. And no one knows why he didn't leave a note. There was no explanation whatsoever. But when it gets to that point that someone takes their lives, that means that there's something they're going through and maybe they can't verbalize it and maybe they can't find support system. How can people get this assistance rather than taking their own lives? We'd like to give people a chance. The issue of suicide again in the African context has been a very contentious issue. People don't talk about it. Right. We're simply seeing all these cases. But we believe that deep in the rural areas people still try to cover the suicides. People believe it's witchcraft, people believe it's demonic, people believe it's all these other connotations. But unfortunately very many mental illnesses can bring about suicide. Oh wow. The sad thing for us in the field is that most of these suicides are preventable. Yes. If only people sought help. Yes. A condition like depression which people are usually told just snap out of it is a disease just the same way you would get malaria. It's the same way you get depression. And the way out of depression is to see a psychiatrist, is to see a doctor. When you start feeling lethargic, you do not have appetite, you're sleeping too much or too little, you're feeling helpless, you're feeling worthless, you're feeling your days just dull. There's something wrong. And I want to put it across that most people who commit suicide do not do it to punish people. In fact it's the opposite. They do it because they care too much about other people and they are thinking they have become a burden. And they think by them exiting the world they give their loved ones an easier time. So while we classify them as selfish and inconsiderate for them because it is a mental disorder for them it's the other way around. They are helping their loved ones. But again depression and other mental illnesses that culminate in suicide and suicide attempts can be treated. There are some that just talk therapy, psychotherapy will be able to sort. There are some that have to be put on medication. But there is help out there. There is help and it is not a sign of weakness because again that's one of the biggest of the major issues that we are facing. People feel that if I talk and tell the world that I can't be a one feeling worthless or I'm feeling helpless people might consider me weak. It's not a sign of weakness. What Edu is talking about the stigma. Again in as much as the stigma I do not want to blame society too much. It's a lack of understanding. They don't know. And that which we do not know man will usually attach some label to it. So it's not necessarily that society is out to harm us. Society is out to crush you. It is just that they do not know. The more that we talk about these things there the more awareness we create and the easier it becomes on everyone. I'm glad you have brought up the issue of awareness because that's exactly what we're trying to do especially and I keep stressing this is a platform for the youth and we are all about the youth and we'd like to help them in every single way that we can. We can't forget mental health as well and that's why we're using this platform to talk about this. I'd like to ask when it comes to managing what you're going through how did it affect things like marriage, things like your career and education if you're furthering your education and you've been relationship with friends? Previously before I sought help I didn't understand but I never completed school I was always doing something I do something and leave it halfway but when I'm starting I have so much energy when it comes to relationships everybody is a means to an end so I really don't I never used to attach anything to a relationship I'm just there because I'm supposed to be there 15 minutes I'm done or few months I'm done I don't want and when it comes to other issues I used to take them so lightly and I used to get you get bored easily and there is a lot of I'm very energetic very hyper I'm like a 2-year-old I'm everywhere Yes I'm always everywhere You're not exaggerating? I'm not That's what ADHD is about He has seen me without medication so he knows so at times the condition for me because mine is rated severe without medication driving is an issue I will be cruising at 100 and I will forget that I'm driving and I'm distracted by something else outside so medication helps and as you heard talk therapy so I have a support system where I have medication and I have counsellors on my speed dial and my family was also taken through some form of psycho education so they can understand that this is a condition because if unchecked when combined with other life circumstances and events I can also develop a condition called bipolar so I have to be very careful I have to be on point every moment so I read about ADHD I talk about ADHD and everywhere I go I say I have ADHD I don't hide it so I was recently having a conversation with some people somewhere and we were talking about suicide and people made fun of it not knowing that in 2011 I was very suicidal and I tried to talk to them but as he's saying he's coming from a point of from a place of ignorance so if I try to explain my ADHD to them my friend they will say I'm a kid they will say I'm a mischievous and for me my mind if he would explain it my mind is like a fast car I have like 10, 15 thoughts at the same time so at times when things are thick very stressful so medication helps exercise helps so if you go to my car right now in the boot with a skipping rope so I get my mind off things by exercising because if I don't take care of my mental health by first accepting who I am the conditions that I have and asking for help when I need it I'm going to be in a very very dark place and all these a large percentage of people with ADHD especially severe ADHD they also prone to depression so I'm walking a tight rope if I fail to take my medication there's a time I I didn't have my medication and I was just breezing around and my wife called these guys called Moas actually and I was telling Moas something is wrong with my husband he's going down a slippery slope and after I got medication and I went to the doctor and we had a chat I didn't want to admit I didn't have medication but even them looking at me like this they asked me Edwin is not on medication something is off probably just to jump in on what you say because again not very many people will go up one day and work to a doctor to a psychiatrist the people who we see usually have gone through a disorder for quite a while and it's other symptoms that lead them to us especially now that we're talking about the youth most youth and young adults and teenagers will try to do what we call self-medicate by use of alcohol and substances so you will find that somebody is excessively above limit taking whatever substance they take they're not doing this and there is a distinct difference between this particular person and their friends who are also taking so you're always the last one to leave the bar you're always the first one to come so at two you are seated at the bus you're always carrying a joint of weed or something that's a cry for help while most people might again but touch is just a spoiled kid he's just not serious with life all those other labels that all those labels that we attach it might be a cry for help and these are the telltale signs that we might want to see a doctor because again left unchecked it will become an addiction which again on its own is a mental disorder and you might end up either in treatment or dead I'm glad you brought up addiction because I think we'll discuss that next week so that we can tie it because you've said addiction is also a mental condition and I think a lot of people don't know that and in Kenya we have a lot of addicts however I feel that we should cover this as well next week I didn't know it was a I feel like many people didn't know it's a mental condition they just feel like someone is just amependa kukunu mulevi ameka taku wacha so we shall cover that next week I'd like to ask you if there's someone who is watching maybe who feels like they need to talk to a psychiatrist or a parent who is watching and it's like they have noticed a few things in their child is a miss how can they approach their child what can they say because most of the time our parents can see these things they can see it's true yes but now that we have discussed and said hey it's a cry for help now how do they approach that child and also the same way I'll leave you to say that one and I would like for you to explain how please go ahead it depends on what is the definition of a child because I believe if you're still the person is still under the care of the parents their dependence then the parent should play the parent role if things are not right a parent should be able to tell the son or the daughter that I honestly think there is something amiss can we see a doctor can we talk to someone again it's a bit scary it's a bit scary because also black people don't talk to psychologists that is the muzungu disease but again the reality on the ground is we are where we are and the sad thing is if we do not act circumstances will force us to act yes mental illnesses it's been proven that the earlier they are diagnosed and started on treatment the better they outcome again there is that fear and stigma that I might be on medication for forever, for life which is not necessarily true if you work with the psychiatrist and the psychologist or a counselor there are some mental illnesses that do not require any medication at all we just need to find out what is the root cause and if the root cause is sorted then the mental illness goes there are some that might require mild medication there are some that might require prolonged medication but the earlier we start talking about this the better the earlier the parent plays the parent's role because again as a parent you should initiate the child might the child might not want it the child might rebel but again that's why you are the parent so it's just a matter of again not forcing but trying to make this person understand why we are doing what we are doing if grades are failing now that you bring it just briefly there is a very thin line and parents have trouble here distinguishing between normal adolescent rebellion and mental illness because again those signs mimic each other there is isolation there is a disrespect to authority there is a experimenting a lot of experimenting with substances when the child is going through adolescent early teenage they are forming what we call identity they are in the identity formation stage so that's when they want to experiment with everything they want to but the problem is those are the same exact symptoms of the onset of a mental illness so we usually say if you suspect something is wrong take action you'd rather see a counselor and you're told there's nothing wrong than assume that everything is okay only to discover later that I wish I had taken action then okay I see and when it comes to children who feel that they are going through something maybe my energy is too much or I don't have any energy at all I don't even feel like going to school I don't want to bathe because I think those are also signs of depression or something how can someone who is young and adolescent go and ask for assistance in that area first I want to say that for anybody who is out there it is okay not to be okay it's okay please repeat that it is okay not to be okay there's no harming out and for you to understand that it is okay not to be okay you have to be self aware what mix you take because the minute you realize you're self aware you realize that today I'm a bit lethargic today I'm a bit too high and maybe it has been consistent for a month now you need to talk to someone someone you can trust talk to your parent okay talk to someone you trust and the person whom you're talking to now should take it out further because these are child and we are assuming maybe somebody who is maybe a teenager and there's a lot of information out there for both parents and young people so if I'm a young person for example and I feel something is off and I come to you or I come to him as a parent he should take it up from there because for me as a young person there's only so much I can do but that little that I'm doing is praise a very integral part in determining what action to be taken so being self aware and being able to talk these mentality especially for men that it needs to go it needs to go so especially for the young men out there talk to someone someone you trust go to your mum go to your dad go to a person in society is going to listen to you and who can take the next step because the minute you talk it out with somebody who can help you it becomes easier I have had ADHD for a very long time I have been aware of ADHD since 2015 basically about 3 years heading on to 4 and I know when I'm feeling off I know when I'm feeling hyper I know when I'm feeling because at times when I get so hungry I become somebody totally different and I know that maybe it's because I skipped some medication some time back I know maybe it's because somebody has said something but that self awareness and being able to stay in check has come to practice and accepting yourself because it's not a actually people who are doing great things find they have some disorders somewhere I have heard that that most people who have extremely good talent is a disorder people with ADHD I think outside the box and some things just come from top of my head interestingly I was very surprised when these guys did some tests some time back and they found that apart from being able lots of concentration and such things have an extremely high IQ you're a very intelligent man you're actually a very intelligent man surprises me also so talk it is okay not to be okay and it is okay to talk actually it is time to talk for young people share those deep feelings with somebody trust there is help lastly I'd like to ask something to do with genetics maybe and we'll go to you after I ask his expertise because I hear that sometimes mental health can be passed down and this scares people who have mental health because then it's like that basically means maybe I shouldn't be a child I am doomed, my children are doomed because it's a difficult thing to manage you know I myself have gone through it then even you get schedule like I do not want my children to go through what I have gone through therefore I shall not have kids I don't know why you say it's difficult to manage because actually it's not again I have had I think about three or four times talk about acceptance because it's just about acceptance that I have a DHD that is the first step then what next so it's not as difficult as most people would assume but it's true why do they shy away then from having children no it's true let's start from where you ask it's true that most of these mental illnesses are genetically passed on in fact we say it's a genetic predisposition just like any other thing albinism for example you can have the gene but it's a recessive gene so it is not dominant it's not prevalent it's not showing same with mental health you can have a gene but it has not been triggered and that's why we are saying we need to talk a lot about these things because for example if you have an DHD please repeat that you can have a gene but it has not been triggered so it's possible that you could be having something and you are perfectly okay you do not need medication you do not need anything you do not need talk therapy it is life situations that at times might trigger self awareness what it talks about is key because and I usually the people I see the patients I usually tell them it's very important that you say you get your children that in our family we are predisposed as early as possible you sit them down family we have depression do not sit down do not make it formal do not make it a thing it is life it is just the way you would tell your child you need to study hard because so that you can get a job you don't need to sit down to do that but I love how simple you are making it it is life when you are walking with your son by the way we have this condition that is called depression your old man had it your grandfather had it this is how we deal with it we see people we take medications the child has not developed depression yet but in his mind he is already knowing that if I start seeing these signs maybe it's time to talk to someone that child when they get to 15 to 17 and they start feeling lethargic they will remember my dad talked to me about it and that's the way we cut stigma so it's not a life and death situation do not shy away from getting kids because you will pass to them this monster that we don't know how to deal with again there is help there is a lot of expertise in this country there is a lot of good medication it's just that we are too afraid we are too afraid and locking ourselves in the house and thinking of all the gloomy and doom and the end of the world because the world depression has been mentioned but I can tell you for a fact very many people have depression but you would never know because they are taking care of it the problem and I have had him allude to it when we do not talk about it it only morphs into something bigger and morphs and morphs and by the time now we are discovering it it's a condition that needs a lot of treatment the earlier we talk about it the earlier it's diagnosed the earlier we get treatment for it the easier the better outcome the easier the better outcome so it's not this big animal that we need to be scared of okay that's the expertise opinion Bori your family man is that right yes what let me ask you have some of these thoughts passed in your head before have you ever worried for your child let me put it plainly if my daughter for any reason develops ADHD she will be in good hands yes the daughter has ADHD and her daughter has bigger things so she is going to be in good hands and just like moise is saying here James is saying here start talking to them early and don't make it seem like it's the end of the world so for me I have so much I have so much information on ADHD not because I am a professional because I have gone through it I am going through it and I have accepted that there might be a genetic predisposition factor to it so my child now I have one daughter very beautiful she might have that she might get it but people function I have beaten so much to be where I am right now I am proud of myself I don't need somebody to tell me I am proud of you I am proud of myself and that is what I intend to pass down to my daughter that's amazing having a support system that understands the same condition also plays a part because when I'm not around my wife knows about ADHD how it can be passed down to our family so she has information she can always share with our children so I can't say that I'm afraid for her I'm glad that somebody that family understands it I'm even much more comfortable that somebody in that family is going through it and it's not a must it's not guaranteed ADHD, depression, bipolar your children will have it it's not a must it's just a chance and you mentioned something important about triggers as we call me triggers is something I wish people would understand because you pointed out and said that anyone could be having a mental illness depression, ADHD, schizophrenia you name it but it's recessive and it hasn't been how can I say there's nothing that because at some point that's what a trigger is the thing that wakes it up now and sometimes it's the circumstances in life and that person probably is just having a smooth life and everything is going pretty well for them but once the storm starts to hit something happens they change, they become maybe they get depression and people are like this is not the same person I knew if you get depression please explain triggers and how they work no that's a debate we can have for 3 days continuous on triggers again because there's many triggers as there are people wow what might trigger you might not trigger me that is number 1 number 2 especially on issues trigger you might have gone through an emotional trauma when you are a child and it was stored in your unconscious brain and it never affects you but it does not mean you dealt with it the minute you face any circumstance or situation that mimics what you faced then it might trigger that remember most of the disorders that we are talking about today the depression, the bipolar they are mood disorders mood disorders are more emotional than cognitive disorders there are disorders to do with your emotions you're being happy you're being sad with your so they are mood disorders and growing up when you're going through the developmental stages there are a million and one things that you pick and store that you might never use you might never know and that's the reason why we're saying it's time we started trusting counselors it's time we started trusting therapists and psychiatrists because like you're saying you'll be walking around and everything is okay you're doing school well you're getting a job you're dating everything seems fine and then one small thing and everything goes haywire and everybody is wondering she has it all in fact that's what we say why is she depressed? she has a good family, she has a good job she has a good car but it's your moods and your emotions that are playing havoc so on issues triggered there are million and one triggers and that's why you need a therapist to sit with you in your life situations what happened when as far back as probably in your 3 years can you remember where you are when you are 3 years they go that far as far back as that because again in one of the developmental theories they say we learn trust vs mistrust at age 3 trust vs mistrust at age of 3 if you get the right caregiver and everything is good you're being provided for you learn to trust people and the reverse if you have a bad house girl who is coming and going you develop not to trust people and then you become an adult and you are seeing this man who can't settle down with one woman who are very insecure they can't trust their girlfriend or their boyfriend and we are wondering what's the problem and they grew up with it so triggers are a million and one you need to sit down with a therapist and go through what are you going through and why and if you go back the therapist is able to pinpoint not to help you pinpoint again the therapist does not have the answers you have the answers therapist just helps you walk that journey together the therapist does not have the answers I'm the one that has the answers it's a therapist job to walk the journey with you walk the journey with you try and probe ask the right questions to help you figure out what is happening I love that this can be managed Edwin looking at you sitting here and an open advocate for mental health you've done a lot you've done a lot of talks and speeches you've spoken to a lot of people about this ADHD so what I can ask you I hope it's not too personal what triggers you if it's not too personal what triggers me to talk about what triggers the ADHD to manifest besides the lack of medication one of my triggers just one why are you laughing one of my triggers is family issues family issues currently they are handled but they are there but they are family issues some of these things you just have to accept and deal with them as they come but I am saying this because he has seen me at my lowest at my lowest so when I say that I know he understands and that's the much I can say maybe just to come in because I know where he's coming from some of our triggers are things that we wish we could change but we can't some of our triggers are things that we wish we had solutions to but we don't and that's why again he's coming in with acceptance but just because you've come to acceptance does not mean that you have you are comfortable with the situation and when it comes to our personal lives and family it's a very kind issue because we always wish that it played out one way or the other and we are always trying to change for the better I usually tell people it's important that we understand that we have very little control of situations outside ourselves you can control you and your how you feel and how you react but you can't control the way somebody else reacts and that's where most of us get stuck because we think we are doing good then the next party should also do good that is the best outcome but life does not always hand you the best outcomes so at times family and those close to us can be a trigger even without their knowing again I'm not saying they are doing it maliciously then they are going on with their lives as normal they are normal but their normal is interfering with our normal so it's a tricky balance and that's why I'm saying you need to sit with someone you need to sit with someone so that you know who are these things and wow there is so much to talk about but unfortunately we do have to wind up the show and in winding up I just like for you to again explain how people can get some help if it's yeah please just explain that the stigma should not stop them stigma number one there is always help out there if you talk always help there is always help out there if you talk the problem is when you keep quiet to yourself talk to a mental health practitioner talk to people who have gone through it talk to talk just talk that is to the person who is going through this don't keep quiet now to the parent and the caregivers listen learn to listen at times we assume he doesn't know what he wants he is just him but listen if we listened more we would be able to solve a bit more of the issues that surround us so let's give of young ones listening here if you need if you need help with therapist they are treatment centers what if someone wants to reach you personally do you have social media we do have a social media you can always check www.theretreatkenya.org www.co.ke www.co.ke that is the retreat Kenya Facebook it's at the retreat rehab same with twitter phone number no so social media just the retreat so thank you so much so you have heard where you can go and get some help if you feel like you do and also parents if you are watching pick up some signs in your child you have heard of what you can do and where you can go and get that help again this is not something we should be keeping quiet about we are trying to open and educate our people about mental health so that we can give them a chance to live a normal wonderful life just as Edwin Buru is obviously doing and thank you so much for watching thank you so much for tuning in health on Monday