 But I think, you know, the reason that Tim and I wrote this book, Romans 13, The True Meaning of Submission, is because the biggest reason that we are in the mess we're in today is because the pastors, Christians, and churches of America have simply refused to be the salt of the earth and to stand up as a resistance to this kind of tyrannical of ideas, philosophies and now activities that are taking place. They've been brainwashed in the pulpits and in the seminaries of America. This erroneous, fallacious interpretation of Romans 13 that the government, because it's ordained of God, means that it has the right to do whatever it wants to do and no one as a Christian should resist. This is the most foolhardy interpretation of a biblical passage that I could ever think of. The problem is, it is pervasive throughout our seminaries, our Bible colleges, our pulpits, every denomination is teaching this. I would venture to say that over 90% of the American churches, pastors, seminaries and colleges are putting forth this interpretation of Romans 13. And for those that don't know, all the World Council of Churches and before that National Council set up what 100 years ago by the Rockefellers publicly, all they had to do was go in and give grants and lobby and take control of what, the 20 or so big denominations, they order them what to preach to the point of, I could play a newscast saying, it is of the Lord to go to FEMA camps, it is of the Lord to take shots, it is of the Lord to do what you're told and go to the camp. I mean, that's a quote, I'm sure you've seen that newscast where they actually admit this and we got the documents, Pastor Butch Pa did years ago and then I got more documents here on Genesis and then people didn't believe the documents and then later they came out and said, yeah, we've recruited over 100,000 preachers to spy on you and to tell you to go to a FEMA camp. I mean, that's right out of red dawn. Yeah, well, not only that, but we know that FEMA has these, as you already mentioned these conspiracy response teams that's going around training pastors that in the event of a national emergency quote, quote declared by the president, the pastors are going to be utilized by the government, namely FEMA to encourage their congregants to turn over their firearms to the federal government. And I've had pastors, I've talked to pastors that have attended these seminars. I've seen some of the some of the manuals that they have distributed. I've heard the first hand testimony from some of these pastors. No, we got them. We got the manuals, they even go on the news, but here's the deal. People couldn't believe it when it wasn't public. When we first got the documents, then they even admitted it and folks said, well, I guess her my guns in is of the Lord. But think about that all over the country for at least eight years, secretly training preachers to tell their flock hand your guns and go to the camp that proves they're preparing this pastor. I mean, that is such a huge revelation. How they use Romans 13 and how they twist it. Pastor Chuck Baldwin. Well, what they do is they teach that Romans 13 would have every Christian to submit to civil government, regardless of the kind of edict that government may put forth. In other words, if government is is is wicked and evil, requiring men to submit to evil and wickedness as a Christian, that we are to submit to that evil government because Romans 13 teaches us to do so. It is a totally passive application and erroneous application of this, you know, wonderful passage of scripture that it actually does just the opposite. That's why Tim and I wrote the book. It's called Romans 13, the true meaning of submission. And we go into it verse by verse. We go into it in depth. We look back into the history of Christian forebears. We talked about Christian philosophers and theologians of years gone by. We compare what they had to say to what preachers are saying today. We go back into the Old Testament. We look at the scripture from from both the Old and New Testament standpoint. And we see the consistent teaching of scripture is just the opposite of what this current interpretation that is being used is. And as a result of this book, Romans 13 is in my estimation a blockbuster because there's nothing else like it in print that I know of today, at least not recently. And we are trying to get the word out the Christians, the churches, the pastors and showing giving them the scriptural historical foundation of the true meaning of Romans chapter 13. For folks that don't know, it was one of Hitler's favorite verses to take out of context. And for those that don't know what it says, why don't you state Romans 13 for listeners? Yeah, Romans chapter 13 basically says that the higher powers that we are to submit to the higher powers in verse one, but the higher powers mentioned in verse one are constituted to be the highest power. And the fact of matter is the higher power, which is the civil power is not the authority of God is not the highest power. All power is subjected. Alex, all power is jurisdictional. Every single person in any position of authority or power has a jurisdiction related to that authority. He has no right to violate or transgress the parameters and the jurisdiction. It's like you have a right to defend yourself and you have a right to defend yourself in your own home, but you don't have your right to go into somebody else's house when they attack you. Defend yourself. It's all common sense, jurisdictional. And the system understands this. And also they say, well, do whatever government says it's your king. Well, in America, we the people, right, we created the government. So so we're gonna, I mean, but now our government is a bunch of foreign banks that paid off our politicians. So we've got to submit to Al Gore and Jordan book you've got out even if someone isn't a Christian out there. And they wonder why the churches in America just support any type of illegal war, any type of torture, any type of corruption, any type of forced inoculations, it's because they become like state run churches like in China or Soviet Russia. And so it's important to educate pastors about what's going on. Now continuing with with with Romans 13 and what it really states and what it's been turned into. Right. Thank you very much, Alex. And Romans chapter 13. We talked at the end of the before the break. In verse one, where it says that every soul be subject to the higher powers. There's no power but of God, the powers that be ordained of God, and so forth. And what they do is they take they translate those verses into meaning that we are to submit to government no matter how evil, no matter how wicked, no matter how unconstitutional, etc, etc. And what we've done, my son is a constitutional attorney, as you know, and he and I collaborated on this book, we call it Romans 13, the true meaning of submission. And we go into the depth of the word of God in both testaments, we look at the scriptures, the myriad scriptures that deal with this, there's hundreds and hundreds of scriptures that deal with this subject, not just Romans chapter 13. The passage does not stand alone. We know that scripture is to be interpreted in the light of other scripture. And so we've got we've delved into the various scriptures we've delved into history. Well, the entire Bible is the prophets and people being killed for not submitting to corrupt government. And the king says bow down to, you know, boobalbub or whatever. And he says no, so get into the lion's den or I'm going to crucify upside down or I'm going to sell you into slavery. The whole Bible is about resisting tyranny. Absolutely. And I make that statement in the course of my address that I preached a four part series based on the book. And I made that that very observation that if you look at biblical history, you go back to the Old Testament, even into the new, perhaps a majority can't say that equivocally, but perhaps a majority of the stories of the Bible deal with someone resisting civil authority. I think almost, I'd say 80%. I mean, look at John the Baptist getting his head cut off. I mean, can you think of anybody? I mean, Moses didn't do what Pharaoh said. I mean, the whole thing's a sick joke. It's a joke. The entire Bible is about about resisting tyranny. Exactly right. And again, that's why I say that this book is so needful. And as you noted, every tyrant in history has used Romans 13, especially if there's a Christian people involved, to try and subjugate the folks into into their into their wishes. Hitler did it. We know that this is a favorite passage of Scripture from those who would like to, you know, tyrannize us and to enslave us. This book, Romans 13, Alex, I just don't know of anything right now that's out there. That's why we put this together. And in my frustration as a pastor for over 35 years, in dealing with with churches and preachers and Christian people and hearing this over and over and over again, that in the 501 C 3 incorporation status, those two things have subjugated the church to to Caesar more than any two things I can think of. And that's why this book is so necessary. Well, let's go over a few of the accounts in the Bible of people being evil and resisting murderers and tyrants, according to the modern preachers. And then let's go through you actually through some of the passages, because I mean, there's just so many. I can't remember who will rise up for me against the wicked one on and on and on about if you see evil being done, and you don't try to resist it, then the blood's on your hands. I mean, let's go through a bunch of those verses. If you've got them there in front of your pastor on the other side, then we'll jam in some calls as well and continue with calls throughout the end of the broadcast. And the pastor leaves us a T minus 25 minutes back to the pastor, pastor, please shotgun through Romans 13. What it really says versus the other passages and stories in the Bible. Well, yeah, right, Alex. Thanks a lot. And yeah, you mentioned right before the break. Let's talk about some of the examples in the Bible of those who resisted unlawful authority. And let's think about Daniel, one of the great stories of the Scripture. Every Sunday school boy and girl hears about Daniel and the lion's den. Well, you know, how did he get to the lion's den? He got there because his civil authority government put him there. Well, why did they put him there? Because he resisted what they told him to do. He said, no, in that particular case, they said, you can't pray for X amount of days publicly. And, you know, even privately, and he said, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm, you know, open my windows. I'm going to pray like I do every day. They threw him in the lion's den. Of course, God protected him and saved him from the lion's den. But that's not the point. The point really wasn't that God saved him from the lion's. The point was he was willing to go into the lion's den in defiance of his civil authority. Same book you got Shadrach Meshach and Abednego, who were commanded to bow down and worship the image of the state. They said, we can't do that. We'll have no other gods before us, the very first commandment. We're not going to bow to the state. The state is not our God. So they threw him in the burning fiery furnace. And again, we talk about in Sunday school that God delivered them from the burning fiery furnace. But again, that's not the point. The point is, they went into the burning fiery furnace. Why did they go in? Because they defied government. They were not willing to submit their conscience to the authority of the state. And this was the old terror of government. We're going to throw you in with starving lions. If you don't do what we say, we're going to throw you into a smelting pit. If you don't do what we say, I mean, the same garbage today. Go ahead. Yeah, even the book of judges, I mean, people read the book of judges, whether it's Gideon or or Samthon or or Jeff to whoever it is, read the entire book of judges, what we find, we find the people of God being tyrannized, being subject subjugated by some oppressive regime, and God raising up a deliverer called a judge. Sometimes they were just a common person that had no, you know, particular position or authority. But God put it on their heart to deliver their people from that tyranny that they were under. And so they rose up, God helped them, God gave them strength, and they delivered the people from this oppressive regime, whatever it might happen to be. That's the entire book of judges. You get to the do test a bit. You come to Simon Peter, when the the civil government over him said, we command you not to speak and preach anymore in his name. And he said, you sorry, we must obey God rather than man. And they took the the cat and I tails on the back for that went to prison for that. But they said no, they defied civil authority, the entire same thing with Paul, fast forward to be a past 70 years later, 100 years later, being burned at the stake in the arena, being thrown to lions because they wouldn't know it's the entire Bible. And that shows you just how deceived or openly wicked most of these little devils are up there on the pulpit. I mean, these are little demons. Well, a lot of them have been they have been deceived. They they they've been taught it in seminary or Bible college. It's the accepted doctrine to teach. They haven't thought it through. Yes, some of them. Some of them are demons. They are. But some of them are just deceived. They just don't know any better. That's what they were taught and they haven't studied it through for themselves. And that's why Tim and I wrote the book. Tim again is my constitutional attorney son and we collaborated on this. But by the way, can I get my website so people can get a hold of that? Oh, absolutely. In fact, I was about to get to that. Go ahead. It's it's you can't get it in bookstores. It's Chuck Baldwin live.com. That's Chuck Baldwin live. All one word. L I V.com and it's very easy. You can see the links and you can click on it. Order online, etc. But that's why we wrote this book is because of this indoctrination that's going on out there and that in conjunction with the 501c3 corporation status of churches has completely neutered the pulpits. That's why they won't take a stand and these people that are listening out there and all denominations of people are listening right now and you go to church on Sunday and you come back and you say to Alex on the phone or you say to your friends, you know, why doesn't my preacher take a stand? Why won't he talk about this? Why doesn't he get involved in this? This is why this is why the 501c3 tax exempt status, by the way, our Liberty Fellowship here in in Montana is not a 501c3 fellowship. By the way, didn't exist until the 50s. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion prohibiting the free exercise thereof or the freedom of the press on and on on First Amendment. They said, oh, you can still be a church that's tax exempt outside of law because we can't put a law on you. We have no jurisdiction back to what you were talking about earlier or you can be a charitable organization and the big denominations ordered all their churches to file under it and now the charitable organization has no free speech when it doesn't get any clearer than the First Amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or the press or the people to peaceably assemble. I mean, he just goes on and on. Read the First Amendment. It's all right there and now I've had friends come to me from their Baptist churches, their Catholic churches, their, you name it, Mormons have sent me the letters where just across the board, they are told do not even talk about politics or your views even at church or at any church function. I mean, they're even telling now their flocks don't have free speech. I mean, these are like Soviet cults. Yeah, the fear of losing their tax exempt status is what's causing that and the Romans chapter 13 and the erroneous interpretation of that passage is giving them the spiritual justification for it. That's that's the double tandem that is destroying America. If we could get the churches and the preachers to stand up for the biblical principles of liberty, the same kind of principles that Jonas Clark, he was the pastor of the church at Lexington on April nineteen seventeen seventy five when the British troops came marching through to do two things. They were going to arrest John Adams, excuse me, Sam Adams and John Hancock and they were going to to seize the cash for firearms that was stored at Concord and when they got to Lexington, it was pastor Jonas Clark and the congregants, the male congregants of his church that were the Minutemen that fired the shot heard around the world and the war for independence began in the United States and it was it and that was the kind of spirit that the Black Regiment preachers all uh personified back at that time. They all understood this. I mean, if we had this erroneous, fallacious interpretation of Romans thirteen in the colonies like we have today in America, we would still be a crown colony of Great Britain. Well, that's why the social engineers a hundred years ago first thing targeted the takeover of the churches and the teaching of Romans thirteen. I mean, they knew they had to get rid of real Christianity in this country and they've replaced it with all these gold little shiny glitter bug people in, you know, fancy outfits with pink wigs on acting like clowns on purpose. I mean, that is all by design ladies and gentlemen. It was the Christians that kicked King George back to England. We'll be right back with Chuck Baldwin. That's a good question for you, Chuck. I'm sure you've seen Harry Reid call the Tea Partiers terrorist. Uh the New York Times says that anybody who doesn't want to get rid of the fellow reserve is quote Hezbollah. They're rebranding and saying we're not worried about Al Qaeda now and I told folks this was coming. It's it's particularly white males and Christians. Uh and we've got all these White House memos about how great a terror attack would be to help them. We have Joe Biden saying the Tea Partier terrorist. Uh they're really trial ballooning coming after people that understand that they are the criminals. Yeah, well, I got a little taste of that in 2008, Alex, whenever the Mayak report came out in the state of Missouri and identified myself and Ron Paul and Bob Barr by name and of course you were you were on top of all that. We you talked you broke the story on that one and uh that thing became a major debacle uh an embarrassment for the law enforcement officials in the state of Missouri that later rescinded the report and dismissed the man that initiated it but the damage was done and ever since then that has been continuing and eight did the Department of Homeland Security through their fusion centers continues to put out this kind of disinformation. I was about to say Mayak was just a regurgitated ADL federal report. That's exactly right. SPLC and they continue uh these reports continue. I promise you everywhere you go to speak everywhere I go to speak uh and there is a report that appears in the computers of the local and county law enforcement officers alerting them to the fact that we are there identifying us as extremists etc and I'm I'm not just saying that by hearsay I actually saw a police computer report one time when I invited Dr. Greg Dixon to come and speak to my church a great man of God the former pastor Indianapolis Baptist temple in Indianapolis Indiana that was seized by the IRS the only church in America to do so and uh whenever he came to speak uh Deputy Sheriff let me see the uh computer in his car alerting him to Dr. Dixon's presence in my church now that came from DHS through the fusion center into the local and county law oh yeah that's who they're watching when they get the Christmas Day underwear bomber the government admits they got him on the plane all staged and we're all the lucky hanging out secretly at the Pentagon Fox News but I got sent a secret report from the army that at my events for in the Fed and Ron Paul's they have army there and it says don't let them know your army they'll try to kill you I mean they're telling the military we that if you come to it in the fed rally that we find out their military we're going to kill them pastor like we're like we're vampires or something yeah there's a link right there on the front page you see it advertised just click that get an online credit cards etc and able to pick this up and it's you know just under 200 pages uh it's chuck full of scripture references from both Testaments we have theologians historians and Christians from history and their comments on what they said about this subject and I challenge anyone to read this book and then not be convinced that we have a sacred obligation to resist uh evil authority and by the way Franklin I'm sorry go ahead and say Brisbane Franklin said rebellion to tyrants is obedience to god and he was exactly right that is a scriptural truism that it is an obligation of Christian people to resist evil government but but pastor as you know this is a chicken or egg situation if you've really got god in your heart you're not going to be able to control yourself you're going to be drawn towards confronting bullies and scum uh and I think that's the issue so I think the book should be gotten out the pastors because maybe they're ignorant and it will certainly wake some up but also it's a test if your pastor reads it and then argues with you about it because I've read the bible I've studied history this is common sense it's no brainer but if they read this very well written well researched historical document and they still don't listen then you need to find a better church and and I think your book should be really a litmus test uh four churches what do you say to that pastor ball wow I think I think thank you Alex I think that's true and I couldn't tell how many people have read the book and have called us back or written this and said you know what it is what this confirmed everything that I knew in my heart was true but I didn't know where to find it in the bible I didn't know where to see it in print but now I see it and you know and and they have done that very thing on now I'm looking for a church that will preach the truth relative to this vitally important subject and I know people all over America that are doing that so I think that is exactly if we don't start voting with our feet we Christians if we don't start voting with our feet and getting out of these churches that are bringing us into bondage spiritually politically ethically and every other way and start finding true men of God out there even if the church is a small little church with only 30 or 40 people in it so what be in a church where the truth is being preached and God will bless your family and more and more than that God will bless our nation I could not agree more now we got to do it we've turned away from the basic principles and now look what we're getting a constitution Bella writes goes out the door corruption and absolute poverty comes in I mean it's real simple we got to get the tyranny out of here but we got a replacement I want to thank you for coming on and I look forward to speaking to you again in the near future thank you Alex and thanks for letting me be on the show and keep up the great work are you kidding thanks for writing that book I mean yeah well we we we want to get it out and we want people to to get the message and that we really believe that the Christian and the churches is where the the real power is in this country it's always been that way we the people are the are the government and we are the power in this country and if you can get the pastors and the Christians to understand their obligation and their duties under God and I think of that scripture verse where Jesus said if the salt has lost its savor it sends forth good for nothing but to be trodden under the foot of men and cast out and that's exactly what's happened the church has lost its saltiness and it's being cast out and trodden under the foot of tyranny and Romans 13 and the misinterpretation of it is one of the biggest reasons why this book is a major major breakthrough I think in helping people to have the information scripturally historically at their fingertips to know how to how to deal with that and again if they'll go to chuckbald1live.com all one word chuckbald1live.com they can order that book okay we look forward to speaking to you again in the near future take care all right there he goes yeah it is important to get those type of materials out to people and then that's why this radio show exists is a platform for information to get it out to people