 We are unable to do the Minnesota December 12th, because you don't have a forum of the folks that were present on that date. We can do the December 19th, 2017, so there's a promotion to approve. So moved with any amendments there, too. So second. All second. Page one. There's one minor typo under members present. We have ten Kenny. He's a pretty good-looking guy, but I'm not sure he's a ten, so I'm going to take his head. But he'll like that. Page one. Page two. And page three. So here are no other comments or corrections. All those in favor of approving the minutes of December 19th. Say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No abstentions. Okay, and they come to public comment. I know that we Debbie Ingram would like to address us on one thing and Ken Sasseros, yeah, I believe. Are you waiting for Debbie to come to or? Why don't you do that and if it's anybody else who wishes to speak, this is the time to do it. So Ken? Okay. Well, good evening. I'm Ken Sasseros. Okay. We'll try again from the top. I'm good evening. I'm Ken Sasseros, a Willison resident, and I was on a couple of task force to dealt with affordable housing and one specifically about creating a local housing trust fund. My comments are to thank the town manager for including in the budget $15,000 a seed money for the housing trust fund in Wilson. This would be the first money for it for the trust fund. It's really important to put some substance behind an idea that had widespread support. $15,000 is the start. It's not an end, but it is a start. It's important to get that start going. I think there is a discussion that ought to take place within the community about how you can grow that fund, what the source is, and that's something that ought to occur over the next year. But in the immediate future, it's important to get the fund up and running, provide some substance to it, and get us on the way to creating affordable housing. There's been enough written about affordable housing the task force has provided you with information, statistics, and probably you know just anecdotally about the shortage we have throughout Chittenden County and the role that Wilson can play in helping to bring affordable housing to folks at work, our seniors, and other folks who just find the cost of housing beyond their reach. So I don't want to keep you, but I do want to thank the town manager for getting this discussion going, keeping it going, and providing some substance to our discussion. So thank you for doing that. So I'm Chris Snyder with Snyder Homes. I'm Gary Miller, or I go by G, just my initial. I'm with the Vinnie Crossing Homeowners Association Board, the resident member. And I'm here. We're here tonight. We understand that there is a budget review later on with the Public Works Department with regards to plowing roads and infrastructure and all of that. And we have been here before and have asked that the town consider plowing and maintaining the sidewalks and bike paths throughout the neighborhood of Vinnie Crossing. The roads and infrastructure have been constructed. They have not been accepted by the town at this point, but the plan is that this summer many of the roads throughout the neighborhood will be Leaded to the phase in which the town can approve and we can start the warranty period. And so our request is is that for next winter that the town include in the budget funds to plow the sidewalk and bike paths, which are required as part of the comprehensive plan. And we build them and our homeowners can't use them during the winter months because they're full of snow. So that's really what our request is. There's also one important point is that since we started Vinnie Crossing to date, there's a substantial tax revenue that's associated with the growth of the neighborhood and we're very happy about bringing that to the town. And in 2000 fiscal year 2017, there's approximately $1.5 million of property tax revenue has been is going to be generated this year alone. And so we think that with the number of homes the tax revenue that has been created that it should be a consideration. And I know G has has a personal perspective about the paths as well. Yeah, I live on Dunmore Lane and I walk to work at Maple Tree Place and we had a big storm and then we had the blowing snow last week and the snow blew over coming home Friday night was pretty difficult. The bike paths obviously it was an immediate event, so it didn't wasn't plowed at that point, but then Monday morning I go down and it still isn't plowed. And so I and I noticed other people also walking on the street as opposed to the sidewalk. So I think it's important to keep, you know, and a lot of people go down to Shaw's from the neighborhood to Shaw's. So I think it's important to have our have the sidewalks plowed and so we can do our walking safely. Thanks, you've probably seen the middle from Bruce regarding this. We're not actually going to take any action tonight, but I think we've got our agenda for next week, you know, for actual action on it. What we just wanted to come here and have you understand our perspective on it again? Just one minor point. The 1.5 million in tax revenue, I should point out most that goes to the state. I understand that. Just wanted to make sure. It's still a chunk, There's still municipal taxes. Oh sure. Sure. We certainly understand that. Thank you. Thank you. So, um, Debbie will be along. She had a previous engagement ended at seven o'clock, so she'll be along. But I think we'll go back to public comment after we talk about the equalization of study and Rick, if you would like to explain what's going on here. Actually, I'm going to ask Jennifer to explain that because she's been more involved with this than I have. As we mentioned last week, we received the common level assessment from the state on how our properties are valued. And we feel that the common level assessment for the town of Williston is lower than it should be. So Bill Hinman, our assessor, has been working with his supervisor, Doug Lay, and they've come to the conclusion that there's two large commercial properties that are driving that, the sale of Maple Tree Place and the sale of a hotel just north of I-89. We're sold in 2016 and 2015, respectively, and those are what's driving our number. And they're hoping that they can work out something with the state to take those two items out of our commercial number and get to a number that's closer to the median because right now our median Bill says the median ratio is at 98.67 and the aggregate ratio is at 90.13 because of those two sales that had large discrepancies. So they're hoping that they can do something without a formal appeal, that between him and his supervisor, they can work out and get that up to where it should be. But we would like to request that the select board give permission to the listers or the listers voted today to ask the select board to give the town manager approval to file an appeal. I think it's I think it's the chair of the board that actually files the appeal. So Okay, yes So the select board We're asking that the select board take action to allow us to file an appeal for our common level assessment from the state. So questions for We've been through this before. Yes It has a major impact on the rationale makes sets So I don't have a question Who's the motion suggested I'd move to authorize the chair of the select board to file a petition with the director of property Evaluation and review for a redetermination of the town's equalized education property value There's there's a second It's a discussion on the motion Hearing none all those in favor of the motion say aye. Good luck Sounds like four votes in favor so thank you So let's start then the budget review on building some grounds operating budget First I'll assume we're just going to go right by the way Then the setup here. Yes So public works building the grounds first buildings and grounds Okay, well buildings and grounds is uh Really part of the highway budget, but we have some separate items in there mostly for The cemetery and the old brick church Excuse me However, the line item it says old brick church. We're actually going to be changing that top line item to high municipal buildings because of We're taking on or I guess we found out we own the old school house So we have to start taking care of that the old school house at on the school school grounds Okay, still fight the school always been my understanding the school owned it I guess we own it So, uh, we've already gone over and taken a look through it and done some minor things But rather than just come up with a whole another category We just in discussions with rick and jennifer just said we'll make that Instead of just old brick church that'll be underneath we'll change the heading there and that will be line items for Taking care of that property too Right now that building. We're going to have it assessed by building heritage The guys that have done a lot of the work for us around around town To come up with a list of projects we may have to do in there But one immediate one is and we've already done it is ordered a door for the West face of it west side of it the door is really shot Nobody's been taking care of the building at all Even all the schools had if they really haven't They've used it off and on it's been sitting there and pretty much disrepair. We painted it. We painted it Two years ago or so But anyway, we're going to have to do some work on it There's some water damage inside from a pipe that was allowed to leak For quite a while Taking care of that situation. It's not leaking anymore. But uh So that's going to be the biggest change to that line item budget tour buildings and grounds Excuse me highway Even let our transmittal there's a few changes Highway budget actually does look like it's got quite a few changes in it, but we'll explain Playing that a little bit which we'll dovetail in with the stormwater budget But uh in the actual highway budget We're asking for a ten thousand dollar increase still in the paving line item Been asking for that every year Keep our paving dollars up there so we can get Roads keep our roads in decent shape We've been doing a pretty good job of that We're getting to the point where we can start doing some long longer term treatments Uh rather than just uh shimming and paving the roads and making them look good on top Which is what everybody sees and likes and things they look, you know, everything's all hunky dory, but not necessarily We can start doing some Because that budget item is getting built up We can start doing some different treatments Uh to actually tearing the whole surface off the road and Uh putting some longer term Fixes on to them so maybe we can get 15 or 20 years out of them rather than seven or 11 So that's the big one there. Uh, there's some stuff in uh on that the show about the uh What's going on with the tip and the cirque highway stuff gravel roads or ones where any actual Budget itself I've asked for uh more money because uh, there's new, uh roads permits coming out That will that will make us do a little bit more work to our gravel roads, which won't be a bad thing anyway But uh, that's why there you'll see an increase in not lying item Bruce could an argument i i'm not arguing against the need to do this Um, I'm not arguing at all. I'm just wondering is is this the appropriate pace for that cost to be or should that be under storm water Storm water is going to be getting some of that. We charge the ditch work is about the storm water But this is the surface work. Okay actual travel Wearing courses of the road that we have to rebuild the road get some more crown and to we have going after grants with storm water Uh and and have actually gotten some from uh the regional planning commission But even in those grants, they'll only pay for the work that has to actually do with the ditching and those type of things Even though it may say in there improve the crown of the road We have to do that, but they're not they won't take that as part of the grant so if you don't mind the way to think of it is The crowning of the road sticks with the road the collection of the water or perhaps alongside the road or dissipation or Management of the water alongside the road falls under storm water I mean, yeah, you could argue that we crown the road to make sure the storm water runs off the road into the ditch Yeah, right on the road for other reasons. Yeah, and maintain and grab one a road for other reasons Okay So you'll see the 10 000 in the highway paving. We just I just talked about first If I can just stop you just for a second. Could you point when you um when you pick a number or off a page? Could you just let us know what page it is that you're Hard to For me to I don't necessarily have the pages right. I'm looking at page five of the public works budget to start That's 13. We're on retreatment right now. Correct. Here's looking at the overall legit Individual pages at this point Just one question on the retreatment bruce is The plan is is I don't know what there's a Do we have a pavement? Is it a policy that we have? A system a pavement system and so the the amount of money that's generated each year Comes out of this system at the point. I'm trying to make it. It's consistently applied every year To what is our five-year play paving plan? Does that make sense? I guess not Well, the system is just a process of measuring the Quality of the road surfaces and then applying a an approach that maximizes your Money spent to keep those road surfaces. You're talking about our pavement management Pavement management systems where we get the PCI number from What I'm really trying to get at is every year we we allocate a you know a significant amount of money to retreatment And my point is is that what gets me comfort in that number is I know we have this system in place And we have a consistent way every year. I believe this is the case That we determine, you know, what are our priorities? What needs to be done? and In a budget that is from year to year this year. We're increasing it slightly But it's still relatively consistent with the budget last year and it'll probably be relatively consistent with Fiscal year 20. I can't believe we're saying that already fiscal year 20s budget Um, because we have this system in place and the way to allocate determine what Projects should fall within that a a or that budget have a payment management study that was done for us And then we developed a five-year paving list that you should all have a copy of That the only year that's solid in that is the fiscal year we're going into And any other years or years of roads that we believe we're going to be able to do And the list is fluid because something had happened this winter that makes me change that list But when I put when this when this five-year program is put together it's put together by looking at that payment management Study and seeing what the where the roads rank on that and it's not always doing the worst roads first So so the answer to your question is yes, we are using it for that to develop that program Okay, good. I hope that's the answer to your question. It gives me confidence I mean, that's why I was asking the question And um, once again, I was just looking at page five the uh, the whole budget going down through the lines Certainly we can go to talk about any one in particular if you'd like but If you look at it at the budget overall, you'll see it's a fairly significant increase at the end But that's because of the way we've changed A few years ago we took uh salaries and everything out of highway Put them towards storm water Now we put them back into highway and we're going to charge storm water We're going to pay storm water a little bit differently that we can talk about but uh I don't normally come in here and ask for a 200,000 plus increase in my budget So I just want to make sure that that's clear that we still uh, most of the line items in the budget are Pretty consistent with years past And I'm only asking for increases where we feel we need them Um Yes salt salt I've kept it the same uh line item. Uh, I'm glad nobody's asked me about that You'll have income from storm water against Yes, when we get talk about storm water, that's what I'll I'll try to explain that a little bit more That make up the whole 200 or close to 200 thousand dollar Most of it's salary and benefits and stuff. Yes Jennifer can help explain that a little bit more if we get to that when we get to that point Yeah And Right which uh Which we're hoping gets approved, but I will tell you that um And it's funny because I was watching the uh At the end of the day today, I decided I'd watch the police chief Uh, give his budget presentation to you just so I could get a feel for if I what things were going like this year and uh I did notice the conversation there about the custodial work for over there. Well, we just hired another part time Grounds buildings and grounds person It's a very hard position to fill And and jennifer did a good job of explaining it that night So I won't go through it too deeply here, but she was right and we've had one person has been very consistent Been with us for a while And the other one's been a rotating door revolving door We were lucky enough to get somebody on board that person doesn't have any desire to be full time either But I would ask that we still make that position with the possibility of going full time So that when one of those two change again, we can do that if it's after july and as far as uh working out the custodial issue with Helping to take care of the police department. I'll figure that out even with the two part timers Even if it means Right now one of the part timers only works Monday through thursday Half day, so it meant bringing them out a little bit more on friday or something so that we can take care of that other Agreement we've kind of made with the police department. We can take care of that So that's that's highway in a nutshell unless somebody wants to look at something or talk about something in particular Any questions on highway Perhaps we'll Ask you to hold up from it and go back to public comment Debbie ingram would like to speak Don't worry. Yeah, they're safe All right. Thank you very much tarry and nice to see everybody. Um Thanks for giving me a few minutes to uh to talk. I understand from ken sestrosi that he's already Made some comments as well. Um, I was uh Chair of the housing trust fund committee and I want to thank you for Forming us and especially thank rick for staffing it and working with us And I understand that um that in his manager's budget he put some seed money of 15 000 to start that fund And um, you know, I think you're all familiar. Of course, jeff was on the committee as well I think you're all familiar with the concept of you know, trying to have some funds that we can use to make grants in order to encourage developers non-profit developers or other kind of create Usually to build affordable housing you have to go into kind of creative financing schemes and One of the reasons that we don't have more of it is Because we don't have the have the resources the financial resources available So this is one Really about for, you know, very very low income folks We're talking about people who are very close to the median income For our area. So around 80 of median income And uh, but that will encourage, you know, young families to come young professionals To be able to afford places here and I think it's the kind of Um Folks that we really want to attract to willis and that we all agree we would you know It's the kind of willis and that we'd like to have So that we have greater diversity of of incomes and you know, not we're not just appealing to people at one end of the spectrum Um, so I wanted to please ask you to you know, encourage you to keep that 15 000 In in the budget. I know you have to make tough decisions. I've been there my myself, but um, I hope that That you won't be tempted to cut that out to To to balance the budget or to you know, to keep people's taxes low I think it's really an investment in the town's future and I would also just Say that one of the things that we talked about on the committee and that I would Like to sort of plant the seed in your minds is that there are other ways of Trying to fund, you know, provide the funds for for this Um, and one way might be To actually ask people On the ballot if they would be willing to put a half pay an extra half penny or extra penny on their taxes In order to to make this investment Um, I don't know, you know, if you'd be willing to do that this year or you know, we we talked about perhaps Maybe spending a little more time to do more education for people But I know we did we did that a few years ago when I was on this record With regard to the roads road maintenance and you know, Bruce couldn't attest to that He came to us and said we really need more money because we've gotten behind on taking care of our roads And so we actually asked people in the town Would you be willing to pay an extra penny on your property taxes so that we can take care of this and people did It passed overwhelmingly So I think we can trust people in Williston to you know, to do the right thing and if we if we Communicate it well to them. Uh, they'll also view this as An investment in the town's future and in making sure that we continue to attract people Um, that give our town some uh, you know, some diversity. Uh, so we're not all just of the same economic bracket Um, so anyway, that's basically what I had to say and I really appreciate uh, you're taking the time to to listen tonight Thank you So moving right on to uh, stormwater Therefore I think left us some a new revised, um, budget for stormwater this week Uh I'm sorry. Oh the one with the money from the state. Okay So I have that as well, but mine's penciled in so it's the same Everything should be the same um So the uh, I guess I'll start right with that is uh, the new budget that you were Received is uh, we got a gift this year that we weren't expecting which was 25 000 dollars from v-trans Uh, that was given to the municipalities that have a stormwater Utility Each got 25 000 dollars just as an incentive toward, uh Because you have a utility So we don't look look look at gift towards in the mouth We did ask them if there really wasn't any strings attached and there's not So that was added in under revenue And then just added to our capital savings for now since it came in so late Uh, well, we actually got it this year. We didn't know if we were getting it next year for sure We still don't know that we're getting it in fiscal year 19 for sure. Although it's Pretty sure the legislature still has to vote on it. But um, The the feeling was that it was a two-year program to start with so that they're We're pretty assured that we'll get that 25 000 dollars again if we don't It hurts us only by the fact that we don't have as much money going in capital savings Because it wasn't put into the program anywhere else at this point There aren't any Huge line item changes except for the salary that we were talking about a little while ago So the stormwater department i'm looking down the page at project labor under maintenance wages at 110 000 dollars and what we're going to do is We're going to track stormwater work that the highway department does Much more closely And bill just based on That time equipment and labor That gets used from the highway department for stormwater work And then Rather than just do it on the 20 percent that we started out with when we set this up We've been tracking about I don't know. I don't want to I want to be a little careful because we haven't been Being as diligent about making sure things were kept separately But I would say we were tracking about 10 to 15 17 percent highway to stormwater so So the project labor says 110 000 Jennifer you said it was 130 that we're For revenue. So the other 20 is in equipment operation and repair. Okay. Thank you So there's use of those vehicles. So instead of charging out fuel and a few other small equipment repairs We're just going to We're going to charge the stormwater if it's used for stormwater. It's going to get charged to stormwater So we're going to get highway paid back for that And the concept is is this better tracks the actual cost than using the percentage? For now for now, jeff. I mean I would I'm going to advocate that if we find that this You know, we get into a percentage point and we stay pretty level with that after a while But it is what it is It's going to fluctuate just like public works fluctuates every year anyway capital savings, uh, let's see Well, that's some capital improvement. So we'll talk about the rest of that when we get down there So the rest of that budget is pretty much You know the same as it has been revenues are up slightly that's because of Finney crossing as an example or any other new housing that goes on We are asking you will be getting a Memo from rick. We're taking over one new road this year So we'll be paying our part of stormwater for that It's about a tenth of a mile or over a tenth of a mile of roads So it's not going to be that big of but we do have that figured into what we have to pay toward our own roads Primrose Lane, it's in the bittersweet Development it's the last road in there to be completed There was a tees in development. He passed the land. Unfortunately his wife finished it off And just got it done this year and turned it over to us So It was always one that we were supposed to be taking anyway, but it just took a while to get it because of some things that were going on The only other place we're waiting for to take roads right now is the finney crossing development And as chris said when he was in here, he's talking about some of that happening at the end of the summer We've asked him to at least get zephyr done And get the traffic calming through there if nothing else through that development And he's agreed to that but it sounds like he's talking about doing some more now too. So What is the retriever? We can talk about an hour. We can talk about in capital. That's fine This goes almost back to jeff's question a little bit about the gravel and whether storm water should be Pain for that the retriever is An implement. It's been around for a while It wasn't a big proponent of it at first But it has gotten perfect a little bit better and it's used on gravel roads It's like a wheel horrors the farmer would use that in the field that turn the earth and move it around It will go on our grater And you take it down the edge of the road to those nice stone berms that you see in the stone That's getting pushed into the ditches. We bring that back into the roads And the one i'm asking about it's in our capital is a little bit more expensive one But it is one that will go on front of the grater You can get a month that'll either go on your grater or one you can put on a tractor But then now we have to have the tractor and the grater out there And since we have the grater the grater operator can go down With this implement on the front turn those shoulders back in and grade the road right behind it So it will be that's what that's for It's not a dog How many miles of Approximately 10 And we're going to talk we'll talk a little bit about that too and we can do it right now One of the things that i'm asking the regional planning commission to do This year through the upwp is actually get us some more volumes and speeds I'm really looking more for volumes though on our gravel roads Because some of our gravel roads as much as everybody wants them to be gravel roads Maybe handling on our traffic that it's time for them to become More hard surface road whether anybody wants to hear that or not River cobro could be a good example of that Front porch forum I don't listen. I don't I don't I'll be honest with you terry. I don't deal with front porch forum very much So but I hear about it. No, there's but there's both sides. You see you can understand the That's why I say some people may not want to hear it But at some point it may not be a it may not be a choice. It becomes down to a issue of safety and You know what engineering practices are so I'm just asking for those so we can see where we're at Uh, I do have one or two that people you know more people that live on it Certainly want them to be gravel, but everyone's in a while. Why don't you pave this whole road? 500 vehicle 500 vehicles per day is one of the numbers that um It says that when you start seeing volumes over that You should start considering a more permanent treatment for that road now. That's only one metric So there'd be other things we would look at the typical cost metric for vermont for uh You know how much it costs to pave a road or is it really very dependent on the situation depends on the road I wouldn't certainly wouldn't advocate that we pave gravel roads the way we used to where it was gravel And then somebody decided they need to be paved so we just wouldn't put pavement down on top of it So it can get very expensive depending upon what's in the road And some of them you may want to actually dig the whole road up to two or three feet deep Put better material on it and then so it could get very expensive This is once again, it's just so we can start to see so we know what's going on down the road No pun intended so Of course, I got to come back to the retriever. Yeah Before you you and again, this isn't a comment against the retriever It's just where should it end up in the budget And before you you were I asked about, you know crowning the road stormwater or Or highway public works and you say clearly not clearly but falls on public works because it's about crowning the road What could an argument be made that the retriever is more Dealing with the road surface then it should be more in public works Dealing with stormwater management It's in it's in highway. It's actually in highway. It isn't highway No, but part of it's being carried in stormwater. So here's my answer your question News coming jeff. So so 12 000 is not the full price. Okay. There we go. All right Because by doing this We will actually save stormwater money by not having to be doing the ditches in theory As as often because They aren't filling up with this material Yeah And they because the whole concept of the large gravel ditches is that it infiltrates water versus letting Filling up with smaller stone and ending up being a conduit To move water down and thus create flow problems All right, we want to keep fines and gravels and everything out of the ditches Whether they're soil ditches or gravel ditches or whatever. We don't want that road surface going in there Okay, so that's why part of this is okay. We justified it You know this can actually be a savings to stormwater too. So so I get over the shock quicker. What will be the total price of the retriever I think it's 24. Oh, okay I thought we're okay Not that that automatically means yes, it's just I was I was bracing myself for like over 100 000. Yeah now that would be uh No, like I said, there actually are cheaper ones. You can go on a tractor And we've got to send the tractor in front of the so it's not a savings Yeah, and this piece of equipment out where you can just be using one or using one that don't trucks you're using Anyway, those kind of things is it self-powered or does it is it driven in mind? It's hydraulically driven off the off the grater. Okay, it actually attaches to the grater Which we already own so I won't ask you for So this will extend the life of the grater, right? Just get you get pretty good life Yeah, let me tell you our last one was like I think an antique so We just replaced the grater a few years ago if you remember and we don't we didn't buy a new one then either And the one where we placed was about 30 years old So we get good longevity out of a grater And I would expect you get that kind of out of this too with 10 miles of road. It's not like You know Huntington or some of these other towns. It's the opposite way around It's 40 miles of gravel road and two miles of paved road, you know, so okay No water if anybody's interested I'll just tell you what's going on Weather-wise with water We've been we've been pretty lucky As far as the water department is concerned we've had one water break That was the night before New Year's and it was the service line to the library But it actually that job actually went really well. They were out. We found it about five o'clock Probably started digging at eight and they were out of there by two, which is actually pretty good It's two in the morning two in the morning. Yeah Two yeah All the way around So about four or five hours, which is really good Especially as cold as it was That night we found about two flea frost under the road um We've had some other freeze ups and homes have had some freeze ups a line splitting them and breaking This last weekend the water department was quite busy with freeze ups, but they were all Either business or homeowner they weren't they weren't ours But unfortunately one of the freeze ups that happened was the library, which I know Rick sent you all an email about A water line broken an elbow in a wall sometime after two thirty And was it discovered till eight o'clock or eight thirty the next morning when they came to open the library So she had quite a bit of damage But marty you know marty marty she does a good job over there and she's got it all pretty much under control And most of the carpets already ripped out. It's all getting dried up. So it seems to be going really well over there, but it was Quite a scene to walk in there and see that water And insurance cover the carpet or is it just since it was already old to start with and you were going to take it out Does it not cover? We don't know exactly It's it's an interesting situation because we were scheduled to replace it this coming weekend anyway And the the insurance company asked the question. Well Is what is if you could have left it Um Would you have or you know in other words if you hadn't planned of replacing it and the fact is the carpet that we ripped out We were going to be replacing because it wasn't adhering properly to the surface below the adhesion wasn't well the water made it worse So for the same reason we're replacing it that that's the reason why it's not salvageable so I don't know what the insurance company is going to cover but The fact of matter is we had that money budgeted and planned to replace it and and actually the schedule We're going to stick to the original schedule We're hoping to get in there on Friday to start Yeah, yeah, they're doing a really good job. I mean, it's not 100 dried, but it's getting there There each day the humidity levels are going down significantly and and we're hoping to get in there on friday and start doing the the new carpet work And luckily because of the way the library is it's bookshelves most of the stuff was up So she lost very little as far as actual books or or any kind of product is concerned It was really something to see I've seen a lot of flooded buildings And it was flooded as bad as most I've ever seen the basement had two inches of water easily And it was still running in the conduits And uh good for Debra Oder for being there forever. She knew exactly where to turn the water off So when she walked in on monday morning, she went right down and turned the Water off Would you think well, you know what good did it but it did do some because it stopped it Not much sooner than waiting for us to get there and find it and everything else. So We also found that the phone system may need replacing completely The phones weren't directly touched by water but the water got into the Cabinet that holds all the wires and caused some shorting which damaged the electronic phones So we may end up having to replace the phone units The water was pouring out of those conduits in the basement that looked like water pipes rather than the conduits for the electrical for the phone Yeah Wow So that was just the way it found its way down to the basement. So Anyway Okay back to uh water We are asking for an increase in our retail rate this year some of that is Based on the fact that we get it. We are seeing a three percent increase from the Champlain water district for to our wholesale rate We're still asking to put the 33,760 into the water tank capital Which will be the second half of the first year's payment Um Just quickly the new water line is not online. I mean a water tank is not online yet. We thought it would be by now But they had a problem with some security cameras and electric electrical Issues up there yet that they're still trying to get straightened out Hopefully they'll have those straightened out by the end of the week and then they'll start refilling that tank. We've filled it once Um Decorinated or did all the testing everything passed But the water sat there long enough that we had to drain the tank back down Uh, that's the bad news because it's a waste of water. The good news is we're not getting charged for that 400,000 gallons That got a bit So hopefully we'll see that online Within the next two weeks Just one do with 400,000 gallons of water Check your basement lately That's right. We didn't have in the library. No It goes the drain Over the areas down the side of the new road. It's constructed down the mountain view and into the ditches and it's all Decoronated, you know, it's no different than when they were draining the tanks to do work on Okay And could you just briefly I'm sorry. I'm sort of lost about what the water tank the 33 760 is for Well, we got we we agreed to pay for a million. I think it's a million something to that tank But the payments don't start until the tank is actually built and finished Okay Oh, so this is a year or two I don't know if we're giving us the two year on that or not turned out your program was telling us It was a two year forgiveness and it was really only a one year forgiveness. Yeah. Yeah Anyway, that's the second hand last year. We put half of the first year's payment in jeff and this is the I get it now once right and then once we get into repayment the actual repayments I take that back. So this will be the This is the second half of the first year's repayment So next year it'll be 66 Because the repayments based on a calendar year and we're this our budget is not tracking with a calendar year I'm not sure about the repayment that way This was just instead of waiting until the year it was due coming in and hitting it all once Okay, so it's a step type thing Okay, so the budget didn't get hit with one big We'll pay um 66 000 or 67 000 a year for how many years That was an agreement we made with the Champlain Water District The monies actually they are the actually the ones that went and got the the tank is theirs They got the loan but our our agreement was that we would pay for our share and that's what we're paying for Under hydrant maintenance. I'm still just looking at my letter of transmittal under hydrant maintenance We're asking for an increase You know hydrants you wouldn't think people could hit and run hydrants as much as they do But uh, they do and it's pretty incredible So certainly when one gets hit in an accident if we can if we know who it is it gets charged to that persons insurance company But we get You know sometimes two a year that get hit And run and then we have to take the full cost of repairing those hydrants, obviously Um And then uh, there's also a capital sheet just looking at the letter of transmittal that deals with hydrants and I can talk about that hydrants So the overall increase that we're asking for in the rates is 2.98 percent and that will allow us to put some money Excuse me into the Into the capital savings fund Which in water is a place where we need to build our fund Do a little bit more comfortable balance than we have now 2.98 percent is just that's the trying to think of how to The 2.98 applies to the portion that's based on how much water I use not my basic user rate, which is remaining The same if I read this correctly No, basic basic user rates going up Your rate your weight per thousand gallons is going from 470 to 484 per thousand gallons But my it says here my my basic user charge existing in new Is 553 per quarter That's the user charge that you get build you get building if you don't use water, right, right? I'm just right That's that was my point that rate is not going up, but the The rate which is based on how much water I use is going up Well, it went up based on the cpi It's all about a 1 percent increase. I think 1.8 1.8. Okay We increase that every year based on the cpi Okay, right. I see the 1.8 I'm looking right below where it says the 1.8 and it says You know what you see where it says existing versus new Yeah, 543 Under resident at the top fiscal year 18 fee. Yep 543 Okay, and 88. Oh, so it's going to be year 19 is 553 Okay residential and 1108 commercial Okay, it was the existing versus the new that I guess had me confused. Okay All right Oh, that's for the number of homes Yes, okay. All right. Yeah, I see. Okay So, all right Okay, got it that increase at 2.98 is based on the whole budget Jeff what we need to have. Okay. Yeah sewer Last but not least The treatment rate increase once again Just looking at the letter of transmittal treatment rate rate increase for 19 is 4.18 percent So we are looking at an increase in the sewer of 3.09 percent and the retail rate We continue to use a sewer fund balance This is one budget where the sewer fund balance is a little I'll say flush. We have good money in the sewer fund balance So we've been using the sewer fund balance of has couple years to Offset a large rate increase So we're still trying to build that rate increase up so that we don't have to depend on using that fund balance But but at the same time not making that too big of a hit to the budget The difference is about 20 Since per thousand gallons. Yes, that's right Excuse me. Yes The amount of fund balance we're Saying we would end up using in from for 19 is 244,245 We're going to continue the upgrades to the pump stations. If you remember a few years ago we instead of going to a state revolving loan or Getting loans all the time for the upgrades of these pump stations. We just put 175 thousand dollars into the budget which would allow us To do a pump station at least every two years Without having to borrow money We're going to continue that program And we're still purchasing More sewer capacity from s extension So that's really the biggest there's not a whole lot of change in the Sewer budget either Any questions for rusa? Using a capital budget buildings and grounds Excuse me the first sheet Tabbed page number 14 For the gazebo the town hall or the town green gazebo We've been doing work to it off and on over the years But this year we discovered the stairs were in really bad shape And looking at it some more And getting somebody to come take a look at it that knows more about that kind of stuff than myself It turns out that we really have to do some work To stabilize that thing and keep it safe Um So i've gotten i got some estimates and we're asking for 36 000 dollars To get some extensive work done to the So you're you're under buildings now. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes buildings. Okay page four. I'm on page 14 And page 15 is uh I'll remember last year we had the steeple redone right here When we got up there. We found quite a bit more work needed to be done than we had thought and Rick uh, and I Jennifer came up with We had some other monies that we were able to put into that But what it really comes down to is we need a second coat of paint on that steeple So that's what this six thousand dollars for is for 18 is just a placeholder for the roofs. That's on the brick church. That's the Oh right here. Yes Yes Last year we had quite a bit of work done to it But when they got up there they found there was more than we had thought So instead of getting everything done we had to Switch to something else so we still need to get a second coat of paint on Then uh page 18 just a placeholder for the roofs and that's all in buildings and grounds per capital Eventually, um, this will be an interesting decision for the board because what Currently is on both roofs is a slate roof The question is Do we keep it slate or replace it with some other material? And I believe the money that's shown here is for some other material Some might argue that historically we should stick with slate because that's what we historically has existed on these roofs That isn't necessarily true So But that's we've had slate probably I don't know how long but I don't know about this roof But I do know that the slate roof on the old brick church is not an original roof When that route when the when the church was bill 1832. I believe is the timeline on that it was before Before rail and rail was what brought slate for roofing to be done That roof the roof that was on that church and is still underneath there is the old sheath the cedar shake So when you go to the old brick church and go to the top and you've never been up there and you'd like to go up there Let me know You'll see that it's very well braced And all that extra bracing up there is because that slate roof was put on So I just want everybody to keep that in mind when we say well, it's got to be a slate roof Because it was not a slate roof originally. I will not say and go back to cedar shake by any means But you're not going to be From a historical context I mean quite honestly Some of the people that deal with this kind of stuff all the time are telling me We should just go to a standing seam Over there this one like I said this roof. I'm not sure The standing seam metal roof yes, and a lot of the historic buildings are doing that even still Just big cost and longevity and I'm not saying I'm not opposed to slate either but rick's right slate is going to be Going to be more expensive than what we have here is it um I assume we'll have to go through the h a a c did I get that right? the architect um Yeah, most likely Wouldn't be exempt from that would we? No, we're not exempt. Absolutely not exempt Yeah, that would be nice Inappropriate but nice. Yeah Um, okay. Yeah, but we deal with that later. Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to Point out that that's going to be a big issue when it eventually does come around Okay. Yeah, sure. I mean this is a huge Putting in $250,000 in the budget For 2021 as a whole it's kind of a holding place It doesn't there's no magic to the particular year Although the longer wait the more likely you become needing to be done What's the effect on the budget this year though? Is there any of none? This is just a sheet as a placeholder We have a few of those And there is definitely signs that the both roofs are wearing. Um, you know, occasionally they'll be Slate that just falls right off the roof And that's not good. That's a good thing. Yes, it's fasteners The fasteners are what wears out so you can't reuse the slate once it comes off You usually aren't kind of well not what it slides off probably but I don't think you can reuse it But I'm not an expert No, it'll it'll be something we'll have to explore. I mean it has worn over the years. It's 200 years old. So, you know, the slate has Worn down some so I don't know what you if you would want to reuse it If you're gonna put that kind of money into it anyway, because you'd still have to take it off It's the fasteners now though. There are what really fails on them for the most part And um, you'll like this one Jeff the stainless talking about stainless steel just real quick the library break the water line that we had It was a saddle that broke The backside of the saddle was stainless steel Shiny and new looking the front side was regular steel And that's what failed So if they to use stainless steel all the way around that would have been Anyway, just And just real briefly on the roof thing we could choose to do the roofs in separate years. Do we have to do both in the same? No, I get cost savings overall if we do that Well, I was thinking that it was such a large number that we may end up having to Borrow short term for that And so I'd rather do it. I have one vote than two votes Yeah, okay, and they do seem to be wearing kind of out at about the same rate. Yeah, I get your point. Okay Okay, then um next capital highway The first one is uh age 23 Minor transportation improvements We're still asking for 20 000 dollars in there for Things that might come up during the year And there's examples of uh above there of what we use it for Just real quickly, uh, if anybody's getting excited or thinks there's a good spot for rectangular rapid flash beacons I would ask you to Forget about that. They're not approved by the manual for uniform traffic control devices anymore. So we can't put anymore in That may change. Well, they're working on it, but it's a patent issue I mean somebody's going after patents or there's patents pending for that those Fhwa will not allow them in the mutcd I guess it doesn't have anything to do with how good they are or whatever whether they work or they're safe or something So the ones we have we can continue to use and they say until they wear out But uh, we can't put any in in the immediate future that may change What about the one off of old stage road that was taken down for repair? What happened? That's not that's not a rapid flash beacon That was I'm talking about the crosswalks. Oh, okay. The signs are fine. The speed of the signs are fine And that the uh, I don't know what the new police chief has done But the old police chief that one wore out or had a problem or something and he was looking into that Hopefully for a great to get a new New sign for their new the speed sign. They came from the police department not from public works so that's uh that one 24 is just the money that's in there every year for paying back for uh, the sidewalk alone The money that we use for all the sidewalk improvements over the years 36 large highway truck operational is the money that we ask for to uh Fleet of uh, plow trucks on a rotational basis And then we'll have to change 37 wait before we move off on to 36. So we're at We're at eight trucks right now. Is it? Yes Terry just a little bit of history Every year I would question how many Of these large trucks as Willis didn't need and It's still I've gotten used to it. Yeah, I don't I I can go and say I don't question anymore But it it does take a lot of trucks to run a town These these would have plows on them in the winter This is the plow trucks. Yeah, that's primarily Six wheel or six yard dump trucks. You have a certain spec that you try to meet for clearing snow a certain number of hours or That's the key thing right there is hours of the operator in the truck And make sure that the operators are safe and aren't spending too much time I read that somewhere. I can't remember where it must have been I may have even talked about it last year the town meeting. Um, I may have focused on it Yes, you did. Yeah, because uh, well for I always pick one service to talk about But this one in particular I focused on last year because we're in the process of adding a new route um, and One of the factors that we look at is how long does it take to do one plow route? And if it's too long then uh in a snowstorm the snow builds up Too high and people can't get through so You know, we were we had reached the point where we really needed to add another route and we did do that this year Okay Large highway equipment page 37 Um, this is just a budget to keep our other equipment that works on our replacement schedule Can I ask you know with the people coming in and asking about sidewalks and And knowing you have some limitations Plowing the sidewalks the number of miles or that you can do How many sidewalk plows do we have? We have one If you would give me a minute one more minute. I'm sorry. That's okay. That's all right So you'll I mean it's a good place to ask a question because in here it says sidewalk plow But that's for our existing plow. That's the replacement schedule for our plow. We have now Save up a capital budget over time. Okay. Yep Then uh 38 is just highway pickup replacement just to keep our pickups on our rotational basis Um 39 mowers We self-explanatory for you know mowing around town edges of wreck paths Round the buildings here and then on page 40 is the second new sidewalk plow That we've asking are asking $65,000 put aside in 2019 and 65,000 in 2020 the last one of these we bought was about 130 thousand dollars So if we're going to take on and we've been pushing this every year And quite honestly if we don't take on a lot more sidewalk we could keep pushing it The manager did that Oh, yeah, I see that I didn't see that With two plows could you cover? We couldn't cover the whole town, but we could certainly take on more plowing we don't do I mean just let's go back to you know, chris coming in here and you guys are going to talk about that another time, but um Even when we take over finny crossing we won't plow every sidewalk in finny crossing. We don't plow every sidewalk in any development now But well, is there a section through finny that we should probably say yes to? Definitely along zephyr road That'll take you from two to two a So that would add quite a bit So we are getting to the point where if we keep adding stretches like that then we either Give the sidewalk plow that we have now working More than you know five hours or so and and have them out there six or seven or eight hours Or we get two sidewalk machines take on a little bit more sidewalk and try to keep those Plow routes at the same The one gentleman that was here was right With a wind and everything And monday ended up being a problem because that's when we discovered the water break in the library So jeff is part of the sidewalk plowing so we didn't get out that morning to do Direct paths that were blown in all weekend long So you know, that's what happens when you have people doing different things There's not a lot of things in the wintertime that will keep us from going and doing the sidewalks But obviously the library flooding was a little bit more important to our priority And the snow got so deep and she just looked at me and took off That's pretty good But the snow was deep enough her blown in enough that we couldn't do it with the pickups Anyway, we had to get the blower from the sidewalk machine Which then slows us down even that much more Because it only does five feet wide and it takes longer obviously when you go to blowing rather than pushing So first if the town decides to go ahead with a second sidewalk plow What will be the impact on manpower? Okay, so it'll be a big decision that way too because it'll be it will be a key factor in adding another staff That's right. I'm not asking for one right now, but I wouldn't turn one down either To be honest, I mean it's certainly for highways Okay, and here's the retriever h41 Um This is a little bit Well down at the bottom it has uh it broken out To the 12,000 12,000 12,000 General fund in 12,000 and storm water in the box on the bottom left side The next 142 portable traffic signals. This is uh something that's been around for a while But it's becoming more and more popular Rather than have to either use your own crew for flaggers Or pay flaggers you can set up and we've all gone through them temporary Lights And these are portable ones that we could take out The crew could take out set them up do their work when they're done Um take them back down and go on our way. What does that do that that relieves two people that we can put back to work Rather than having to flag And when you have a crew of six people And you have one on vacation And one sick And you take two to flag. Well You only got two left. It's not you're not so We can we thought about this and and heinsberg has them they're using them I think st. Albans has some they're becoming more and more popular And I really think they would help us in the long run. I did look at uh, we used some Flaggers this last year contracted flaggers I think it was 800 hours for the day Um And to really get into using them they want us to do a contract thing with All kinds of you know shed and liability and everything else that I'm not willing to sign nor would the town want to sign Um, so this is something we really do want to What was used on an industrial avenue They were they were more of a permanent temporary kind terry But yes the same kind of thing or these would be a smaller rig. We can tow behind us fairly easily You set them right up the day. You're going to do the work You do the working at night. You can just turn them off If you're coming back out the next day say we're doing a long kitch line A good example of a place for what they would come in real handy is we've got to do something with the church on mountain view road The christian, I think it's christian alliance Down at the other end of mountain view road, you know to have something like this over there would just be really ideal Rather than how to take up people flagging We typically use town staff so far. That's what you've been doing for flagging. Yes. I have told mark that I'm not opposed and as long as we have you know, we keep an eye on the budget That on some of these projects is just as good to go ahead and hire a traffic control company for the day Because once again you take two people out of the crew out of a six-man crew You don't have you know really slows things down So all our people are certified go through the training every year Have their flagging card and can do it legally do it any problem This is primarily just for your town sponsored projects because If you hired or contracted a job, it would be flagged by that company. Oh, that's definitely that's that's correct. Yes Yeah Whenever we hire a contractor to come in Water breaks are a good example. They don't even use their own staff. They call a contractor Comes in and does that for them These would be very beneficial and there's also times where we could use them Other times we could use them if you know, we had a An intersection get knocked down or something we could use these on a temporary basis if we had to so there's more Use to them than just that That's it for highway That's it That's it Water the first excuse me the first one's shampoos Water line upgrade Chamberlain lane. I'm sorry chamberlain chamberlain lane age 69 age 69 chamberlain lane water line upgrade Change an existing eight inch to 12 inch And all we're asking for is money and 19 to start looking at What we coming up with the engineering and the plans that we need to do this This situation has been out there for quite a while I'm not sure why it was ever put in that way, but so that's just the correct a Existing problem and then on page 70 as the water and sewer meter reading system upgrade That's just to keep putting money in our capital savings for upgrading our meter reading Which we just did this year. So this is just putting money again Asides for the next time we go to do it That's it for water and sewer again Page 71 Water and sewer pickup truck replacement Once again just to keep our trucks on a rotational basis For water and sewer The next one page 72 is the backhoe replacement Water and sewer portion of the backhoe 73 the pump station upgrades. I talked about a little bit earlier the 175 000 that we've been putting aside For keeping our pump stations up On the pump stations Sorry on the pump stations. I notice that they're associated with Different developments these are pump stations we own they're not development pump stations So they're outside of the developments. Well, they may be in the development, but they're still our pump stations Any pump station it has over 200 connections or even a municipal connection Is can be given to the town or taken over by the town of wilson. So we own 10 of them So they are in developments, but that's because of the number number of units that they serve Is why they become ours Page 74 is just a place For way down the road 75 is the additional sewer capacity I have a hundred thousand dollars And 76 is a hydrant replacements I talked a little bit about before we just had a water system asset management study done that I came in and Spoke to you all about and we just want to start replacing hydrants That are obsolete And just because a hydrant's old doesn't mean it's not usable anymore It's a matter of whether we can get the parts for it or not anymore to rebuild or So that's what this this new capital is for in 76 Wasn't the we had a problem with one over the summer in lamplight acres that ended up being an obsolete and Maybe you can explain why that was the hydrant the hydrant itself was obsolete Anyway, it was the oldest hydrant 1966. I believe Vintage But So we thought we were going to go in and shut the hydrant off of the hydrant valve And then replace the hydrant We got in there started digging and dug it up. We found out there was no hydrant valve So we had to turn the water off to the development That we weren't planning on doing And because our valves wouldn't hold closer We had to keep going out and farther and farther out so we ended up closing all lamp light off Needless to say the residents weren't very happy with this because it was not planned And the repairs took a whole lot longer than anyone had ever envisioned It's supposed to be a quick in and out repair and it took All day There's no hydrant valve to be able to isolate the hydrant itself. So yes, what you're saying is correct. It was a live hydrant That would really if you hit that hydrant and knocked it off It could have been a problem The hydrant itself has The stem in the hydrant itself is supposed to fall and not let that happen But what you're saying is absolutely correct that that broke or failed That we couldn't have gone over and just shut the water off for that hydrant We would have done just what we did and started turning off the develop How many hydrants do we replace for forty thousand dollars? Depends on what kind of number the contractor gives me Terry to be honest with you but uh Hopefully five six We're anywhere from three to six thousand dollars when we're going to do hydrants. So You know six times five's thirty maybe a little bit more depends on where they're at how deep they are Yeah, if this gets approved what we'll probably do is put an rfp out and try to get one contractor to Come in and take the six or whatever and do them under one contract That's it we go back to page 75 the additional sewer capacity Reading the description and it sounds like Essex has agreed to sell us 10 000 gallons A year at ten dollars a gallon through 2022 After that It sounds like we have no commitment. Yes, correct. That's correct. We're hoping they will continue to sell us capacity Sell us their their capacity, I guess and we're hoping they'll continue to sell us their capacity at the same Price but we don't know that. Yes, that's correct I mean as you know, the only number that really matters in here is the the year we're in anyway Right. Yes. Yeah, but I just in terms of the long-range plan particularly for something like this Um, it's at least good to know what the limitations are not limited. Maybe not the best words, but What we know versus what we're hoping or anticipate Or we don't know yet Is there any I don't want to get too far down this we'll be talking about attachment a soon enough But is there any Worries that that we will not be able to purchase additional capacity after 2022 I don't know. We've we've broached the subject with both s6 and s6 junction We have they haven't said no, but they're they're um, both towns are actually going through a change of leadership They have a new manager starting in another month or two and That chidl is retiring. So yeah, that'll be a factor or not In the end it's really a matter of whether either one of the two communities feels that they can part with additional capacity and And they haven't given us a clear indication yet so I I I don't know Okay, I'm optimistic, but you just don't know. Okay I apologize. Jennifer just corrected me. I'm stormwater capital. It's real quick. Yeah Um page 80 Is the allenbrook flow restoration and and uh, what we're we know we're going to have to come up with is a phosphorus control plan Uh, so we even know there's no money in that for 2019. Um, You can see there's plenty in capital savings. So We feel confident we'll be okay with that for right now um And one of the reasons we didn't do that is that because uh, the stormwater no loans the neighborhoods on page 81 You'll see, um where we have capital current capital savings And uh, we're we're got a manager manager approved for 190 000 and 40 more To go into there so that we make sure we have the loans And we may need for the neighborhood projects That are coming along First on the loans What's the what's the rationale for the difference between the manager approved and what was requested? I I see manager approved 190 040. What was requested was 328 Yeah, that was before we really knew what the uh, the current capital savings were and those kind of Once we got all those numbers we finessed things. So so you're comfortable with the 190 Yes, we'll be fine And if we go go back to page 80 the phosphorus control plan Excuse me. Those are some sizable numbers You know almost 50 000 a year Is that to do planning work or is that to actually install to do actual Projects. No, this is the Allen book Allen book flow restoration slash We added actually if you take away the phosphorus control plan Before this you saw it. It's just the Allen book Allen book flow restoration Projects that we have already. All right, and we just put in the Put phosphorus control plan underneath that capital item also because we know we're going to have to come up with a phosphorus control plan Okay, and right now we're comfortable with the 326 397 that we have In current capital savings under that item So we just didn't put in the 49 000 this year, which was the way the budget was set up originally Jeff to put in 49 to 50 000 every year for the Allen book flow restoration. Okay, so that's all right We just move money a little bit. Okay, we'll reevaluate this every year. Yeah Change Do we know for sure phosphorus control plan? Oh, yeah, we got it down Yeah, phosphorus control and chloro Like champagne we're going to have a chloride plan coming to That's going to be interesting. We have a stretch of money broke that is chloride and pay Impaired goodness that really Isn't so much because of the town or v-trans So I asked just because I inquired about phosphorus control and what changes would have to be made to the funds and The best I could tell from talking to the state people new technology It really exists I'm curious as to what we're going to do They don't really care whether there's technology or not. They just tell us that we got to have a plan and come up with the So I'm not trying to be but We don't we don't know what the answer is A little bit in their defense is it's based on the lake shamp plain tmdl that Allocates, you know where the phosphorus reductions are going to come from so they may not have a lot of option other than to say The the tmdl requires it Thus we have to look to the stormwater programs to Well, I could deal with it when it comes because the the problem for lake shamp plain isn't the developments The lamp light stormwater project Oh, you mentioned chloride Very interesting because is there only one way to to help alleviate that which is a stops not stop or reduce Salting the roads Yeah, it's definitely salt. That's that's causing the chloride concentrations so far in vermont. We're not real bad But it's definitely getting there Oh, your problem somebody slips and falls and sues us Is then you're in our contract that it's going to be your responsibility So the only way they can take care of that is to bear things off New Hampshire came up with a program that said no contractors You don't have to do that and if something happens you'll have the same kind of protections that the state has That has been that that's a law. It's been challenged and it's in I think it's all the way to their supreme court Right now to see whether they uphold it or not And if we're hoping they do Because if they do then we're going to push in vermont have that same kind of thing happen here It's really important for us Because we have a stretch of muddy brook that is chloride impaired and it's mostly through maple tree place The taft corners area right where you would think it would be Okay, are we contributing to that? Are we the main contributor not by a long shot? Okay, so And then the last one is the watershed improvement Um capital item page 82 And this is uh, well the box explains what it's all for and we're just carrying the same number we've been carrying And this is for other projects that were identified in that watershed improvement plan that we've had There's a long list of projects on that plan Well, I'm going to ask jenniford help out here too We have several major topics we wanted to talk about and then Staff is going to be looking for some direction from the board as to where you want this whole thing to end up And One of the major topics is the fund balance and how that's going to get used Another major topic is um The fire department and how that's staffed and Somewhat related topic is the whole solar panel project and how that gets funded because that also involves the possible use of Fund balance monies I have In the past I in fact included with your packet was a possible budget change thing I have a new one here i'm going to distribute Because this reflects the latest numbers that We had talked about today Let's see So I refer to refer to this and not The other one I'll just talk about the one Okay While she's doing that I will talk about the solar panel That's the one I I'm familiar with here the um We're in the process of evaluating that whole deal as it were According to the agreement We had to put in a written request Um For an appraisal and we did that the appraisal came back. I think it was $345,000 To purchase the units I believe the original estimate was 340,000. So that actually is pretty close Um, so if we do buy them We will gain Revenue back Or actually reduced expenditure not really revenue because That the power that's generated will then offset some of our expenses for electricity and The so the other part of this is how do we pay for that? 345,000 So what we're proposing to do is there's some money And i'm using round numbers here 250,000. I think left over from the public works garage project Which we had originally set aside to buy the solar panels that are put that are on that building When we negotiated the contract for those solar panels The contract ended up being for us to purchase them 125,000 So we that means there's 125,000 we don't need in that fund anymore That's money that we've already borrowed and we already have so it's It's sitting there So what we're proposing to do is use 125,000 out of that fund and put it towards the solar panels here And then the remainder We're proposing would be Fund ballots because we our fund balance is too high and we need to find ways to bring that down We believe that the best way to accomplish this would be to have a townwide vote by australian ballot on this topic And the money from to reuse the money for the highway garage. I think would require that anyway Because that money was approved by bond vote We can't use it for anything other than that unless the town votes to use it for something other than that so It just made sense to kind of put all this together and Ask the town's people if they want to pay the money to Towards buying those units the Um, as I said, there is a reduction in expenditures um, and that's It was a 20,000 a year for the first year That's the way the contract was set up The idea was we get the appraisal in time for the budget process and then we have the vote in march And it would go into effect In january that following year So you would anticipate the revenue or the money we don't end up spending To be 40,000 on an annual basis at least for the first year So if I could my quick math tells me we're looking at like a 10 year less than a 10 year payback period Probably just doing very straight That's why we've asked our consultant to kind of provide some guidance on this because We want to make sure we understand how much it's going to cost to maintain those units And Right um, and they each year they deteriorate a little bit and the power that they generate decreases a little bit So that has to be factored in so there's a number of things that uh, we're looking at and um The consultants looking at those plus he's examining the um the appraisal to make sure the appraisal is accurate Okay And then jennifer will be going through the numbers So that's that one issue. Um, and i'll turn the floor over to jennifer to talk about the fund balance because there's more There's more use planned use of the fund balance beyond just this Little piece here jennifer is there a place you would recommend in the budget we have in front of us? If you look at the revenue section The easiest place to look at that is just on the revenues page two so We are looking to use fund balance and so wherever it says from reserves. That's where we're looking to use our fund balance So we're looking to use 400 000 to reduce um taxes We're looking to use 314 810 dollars for capital projects and equipment And we're looking to use For for the environmental fund. So that's the 200 000 additional that we would need For that grant that we may or may not get and then plus the um Money for the uh solar panels. I just talked about okay, so that would be an additional 200 000 to the 400 Plus 314 plus 200 that's identified on this page Okay, now these are all all these except for the 400 000 the initial 400 000 these are all For one-time expenses. So we're not dependent on use of this money the 400 000 dollars is Something we the amount we believe is sustainable in other words each year when you take The all the town expenditures and all town revenues. We generally end the year with an operating surplus for that one year And generally it's been in the range of well, it's been more than 400 000 but it's in recent years, which is why the fund balance has grown but if We didn't have those unusual situations then presumably over time we would still be able to use 400 000 dollars a year And and keep doing that year after year So we we've chosen to try to bring that fund balance down by picking A number of one-time expenses Keep in mind that the 200 000 for Environment reserve fund we may not have to actually Use Or we use it, but then we may get the money back You know, so it's the concept there is right now we have Committed 400 000 dollars to the purchase of the town forest This is saying we might spend up to 600 000 dollars for the purchase of the town forest Hopefully not, but right. Yeah, okay page That talks on provides the fund balance summary so you can come to see where it's been trending If you look at rick's transmittal letter There's table three See how We only go back to june of 2014 here, but we had 1.9 million dollars Um So in the operating book, there's the very first section of the operating book transmittal And so Well rick has talked that we've been trying to use 400 000 to reduce tax revenues. Um, we actually Based on how things have been operating and getting additional sales tax revenue or underspending in the police budget various factors have happened And so you can see each year we've actually been adding to that surplus as opposed to using that surplus The latest year june 2017 We actually budgeted to use almost 569 000 and We didn't use that and we actually added to the surplus by This number has been adjusted through the audit the one that you're looking at here this one 389 000 so almost an 800 000 dollar Swing from what we intended the fund balance to be to what it's grown today So that's why we're being a little more aggressive this year of really trying to Utilize that fund balance into these bigger projects instead of borrowing for the Solar panels if we choose to do that project of saying let's use this fund balance and get it within that Target range so that we're back in policy When will we see the solar panel financial analysis When will we see it? I would Well, we're shooting for having it to the board For the meeting on the 23rd of january So because you the board needs to make a decision if you're going to include this for a vote You need to decide right that meeting. We're hope to get the information to you About a week before that, but it's going to be tight Table three And on line 10 projected use 2019 fiscal year 2019 right now it's showing the 914 which are the three items that I find um From other resources on page two of revenues But if we do the solar panels That would increase that amount to whatever 914 plus 200 000 is what is that 1 million I I guess my question really comes down to The remainder line 11 then ends up being 1.301 million Which is getting Towards the lower end of the target range And I I guess what I want to hear from you is what is the liability of that I think the policy the select board has a policy that says that that The fund balance should be between 10 and 20 percent If You want it to be closer to 20 percent Maybe you reconsider that policy. I think 10 percent is A significant amount of money when we look at what we have here and Seeing where our sales tax revenue has been trending I think we're we're comfortable with that for now, but we do want to have some Fund balance because the year that that switches you don't want to pick that all up in one year Yes Right, but that's built in, you know, that's built into our revenues, correct The 800,000 dollar swing. No, no, no, we had an 800. We wanted to spend 500,000. We ended up I see what you're saying. We ended up raising it by 300,000 So we have an 800,000 swing. I don't know if we have two our budgets a little too padded, but I mean you're you're kind of planning to spend the money by giving it back and In the budget and defraying or keeping the tax rate down. So I guess Just a different way of looking at it. I guess the part of the thing is the Importance of having a fund balance Can be seen when the economy does a downturn Then we can see significant swings the other way in the sales tax revenue And we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars difference and And I did have a chart This is not in here But I showed I think in one of my presentations a chart I might have it here actually Where the there were years in our fund balance with the other way Yeah, actually here, I I did show this chart I had shared with the board when I gave that an overview and there were down years where it was going in the other direction Those would happen to be the years when we had the big recession And revenues were going down and the board was trying to hold the line on budget increases And tax rates and so The grand the fund balance was going down at that point And of course since then as the economy rebounded so did the sales tax revenue and the host of other things So it's been on its way up But we do need to kind of go the other direction a little bit again But to answer your question, I don't have if I had a crystal ball then it would be easy You know, I'm a little concerned about getting it too low because I know we're going to have a downturn in the economy at some point It just it happens, you know, it's never not happened So when it's going to happen? I don't know It right now for the immediate future it looks okay But a year for now it may look quite different and But I I do think that we have a little bit of probable cushion here in the sense that 200,000 the way we may not end up or we may end up spending but getting back for the The grant that goes towards the purchasing the catamount forest property. So You know, I think we have a little bit of help there, but Yeah, it's But on the other hand, I think we need to bring it down If it's too high So if I could if What I'm interpreting what I just heard is um, well, let me first say to me the fund balance is somebody about risk or managing risk might be a way to put that and What I'm what I'm hearing I'm saying this to make sure you you agree is that If we were to reduce the fund balance at least the projected fund balance because of course We don't know what it's going to be for fiscal year 18 yet We assume it's going to go up. We're going to do better than we had projected which has pretty much been the case But let's just say the projections are absolutely accurate In the amount is reduced to About 1.3 million You're not looking that as any as a significant increase in risk. I'm not trying to pin you down I'm just trying to make sure I kind of heard You know your your thoughts if you will Yeah, I think being within that 10 to 20 percent range. I think Is is significant. I think it's good. I think you have a full Year To look at that. I mean next year. We're going to be In the same situation and we'll actually know what our budgeted use was for fiscal year 18 if we do use the full 18,000 and that does come down Then we're talking in fiscal year 2020 of saying, okay, maybe we're not as aggressive next year of trying to utilize that fund balance But I think in a year where we're saying we actually are significantly out of compliance of what we know as of june 2017 we're 3.2 our fund balance is 3.2 million dollars Which is a million dollars more than Our our range is supposed to be I think we're in a position where we should be more aggressive in using it instead of asking For additional tax revenues Built into our budget so far we have a run rate Which we exceeded last year, but a normal run. I think that I heard is around 400 000 dollars a year Under spent so our normal so if you take the 1.3 it's actually Really less than that from a run rate unless Unless there's something crashes this year in this upcoming fiscal year. So Likely we won't actually draw the budget down that much the reserves down that much Just to let you know my my feeling is and maybe it's the engineer and me is Is In six months when we're there and and I see it actually happen I'll feel comfortable right now six months away from that Yet looks likely, but I'm not willing to bet on it yet It's not a bad thing to understand what happens when you have a kind of an economic disaster Because our our revenues will stay stable from property taxes. I assume For the most part, I mean, I imagine maybe Maybe you have some problems there people are unemployed, but You have the potential of losing sales tax revenue and you have the potential of losing Rooms of meals, I assume. I don't know whether one's more apt than the other but Would that would that be kind of the extent? Because people will still use water and sewer maybe maybe marginally less, but Would Those revenues actually don't go into the general fund this sewer and water those are their own funds So those those are their own utility funds But where we would see probably some revenue decreases is probably in permit fees Things like that. You would probably see Those go down That was actually a significant contributor to the surplus this year It was almost a hundred thousand over budget It would just be good to understand with that. What is our range of exposure to economic downturn from a stability perspective town revenue versus expense Well in and as far as the rooms meals and sales tax that you can see that in the report That um, I give Every time we get a receipt I so we we can certainly pull that It's interesting to know right for uh, it's Jack was saying what is the Most companies do disaster What would be our disaster plan or another example that might be helpful to understand is um, you just hear about how big how brick and mortar retail is is having difficulties And so if one of the major stores in williston were to close What would that mean? Because that to me is not that far out of the realm of reality of possibilities Well, we had that when we had the major recession. There were close stores that closed But even even in a good economy We're hearing about brick and mortar stores closing right and my point is is that the economy may be doing great We still might lose a significant source of revenue because our sales tax is lost from a major retail Let's let's look at that kind of a plan. Maybe we should have that kind of a plan. What do we do? Well We in a sense we do that's why we have the fund balance The fund balance has in the past served to buffer these downturns And is that is it is the range the 10 to 20 percent based on an actual economic downturn assessment? In a way, yes I mean it's it's a roll of thumb that auditors and accountants recommend and then that's It's proven to be reasonably Accurate for our needs. There's no hard science behind it I think type of thing it was I remember didn't susan do the research Well, it's a range that is widely recommended. I think that's what she you know I mean, it's interesting how it's a range for us. It's not even a specific like let's say 15 percent It's a range. We have an unusual situation. Don't we are isn't more of our budget our income due to The box stores the sales then the typical situations. Yes. Yes, that's correct. You might want to know what that looks like Yeah, no, I'll pull out the report and I'll be able to show you the range Of revenue that we've had when when things were low versus when things are better So that'll give you some sense I feel comfortable with what you have. I mean it seems like a The board As I started off this conversation the board doesn't have to make a decision. It's not on this But you are fast approaching that time and So this is one of the big issues the other Is the fire department should we talk about that now? Yes So since we since Dug into his numbers a little bit more and we put together kind of a Cheap sheet that the cheap budget line doesn't line up with what you have in your packet right now And I'll work to get you a clean copy of that One for Ted too Yeah, this is just a A snapshot of the items that we're talking about changing And items that are different between the manager's budget and chief martin's budget And I actually asked chief to come here tonight To talk about any of these questions that you have and Really understanding The service decision that you're making within the budget this year. It's saying what do we want our fire service to look like? Just now Or if you have questions about Can you explain what we're looking at just uh Real quick we asked for information Based on what the chief talked about a few weeks ago and regarding the The loss of calls that we had and how we have make make up the difference in the budget at that point Yeah, I believe you have the loss Call from you sure So this that you're looking at here, this is just saying this is where These are the items in the budget that If we were to Add in another career staff position To each shift that they have so three career staff This is these are the items that would change On-call wages on-call benefits career wages career overtime career benefits training recruiting equipment These are the items that would change within the budget So this is all add Well, these are where we currently are these items This is where the chief's budget is for these different line items here And this is where the manager's budget is in these same line items So kind of seeing The difference between these so let's just look at on-call wages for example In our current budget, we have a hundred and ninety five thousand dollars budgeted for on-call wages fiscal year 18 fiscal year 18 The chief's budget for on-call wages for fiscal year 19 says we're going to be adding career staff Instead of trying to fill these On-call positions and we're going to be able to bring that number down to a hundred and thirteen thousand five hundred seventy The manager's budget Actually has that same on-call wages at about a hundred and sixty four So with This change In how the fire department would operate there is an impact to revenues and those revenues come from ambulance revenues So currently Where our revenues budgeted to be three hundred and fifteen thousand With this New staffing and being able to take calls and not transfer out to other departments Um being able to be a support for other Departments, um, we could bring that revenue up to three hundred eighty two thousand six hundred Does this account for all the calls that we've transferred? This accounts for an increase of twenty five percent It accounts for The the current volume that we would handle now with staff And the increased volume we would be able to handle with more staff So it's a combination of both my question is I guess for fiscal year 18 You're saying about 25 of the calls roughly You're asking other towns to serve Other ambulance services are quite that high, but we we had a couple Well, I don't want to get in the middle of what you're working through, but um We we exceeded our projections for revenue this year We changed billing services We changed collection services And we saw a pretty significant increase in revenue brought in net revenue In addition to that Well, we can talk more about the three people added versus the status quo budget But if we were to add the three folks and we're able now to stay at the second ambulance more often We would be able to handle more calls. Therefore generate more revenue So there are a couple of parts moving there's increase in calls. We get every year anyway There would be the increase was we're seeing in revenue based on the um the higher Number of receivables we're getting by the new billing service And we'd also see the revenue we generate by handling more calls Can I take just so I can't take a step back? I want to make sure I understand Stay in the difference between what's being called the chief's budget and what's being called the manager's budget And I think it really comes down to positions Uh staff positions new new full-time staff positions This may not address what you're about to ask, but um I want to point this out anyway in the budget adjustment sheet that I handed out this evening. Okay. Um one way to look at it is With line four It's kind of a summary of all the changes that would occur between The two different proposed budgets in order to add Three people it would result all those changes both up and down Result in an additional expenditure of 63,280 dollars. Okay in line five on line five on the expenditure side now The chief just mentioned that there would be some additional revenue generated So if you flip the page over on the revenue side Line number two it shows the additional revenues in there So So the 60 the 63 is a net. Yes Well, not including revenue revenues a whole separate category. It's net when you adjust all the different expenditures in other words Line items to pay for the new people go up Overtime goes down The cost of the um on call people goes down that 63 thousands a net of expenditures only So really the cost I mean minus the revenue the cost to the town is then only around 40 000. Yes something. Yes But and I'm sorry another one this subject and I'm sorry I have to Go back to this but I'm on the expenditure changes line five when it says paramedic only What is the words paramedic only refer to? Well, I'll let the chief explain but I don't think that's a viable option because the cost is close to Hiring three new people and what it means is right now I'll give a shot at this because we talked about this afternoon Right now two-thirds of the time we have a paramedic on duty on one of the shifts On the shift each shift or on the shifts um Paramedic only would be hiring On a per diem basis an outside person to come in and fill that extra shift Okay, so it'd be per diem And and so it would get the right chief it is and and the kind of the boil down recap and and thank you For allowing us to come back and and keep this conversation moving because we feel it's critical that we have this conversation keep moving Um, there are really there are three options Option one is the manager's budget Which if you then take the manager's budget and then you add A per diem paramedic which we'll touch on in just a moment Then the manager's budget plus the discussion we're going to have about a per diem paramedic Leaves the proposed budget with adding three people And the budget as presented by rick with the per diem paramedic person Those two budgets are almost the same They're within a couple thousand dollars under five thousand dollars off five thousand dollars And and and just to recap how we operate We have moved beyond just the transport ambulance, but this year we also became a paramedic service Sort of licenses paramedics and two of the three shifts with recent hires Um now each have a paramedic on the shift So three shifts each one works every third day And currently two out of three days The shift has a paramedic on duty working The third day we do not my My request to the town is We not wait until If we don't do it this year July 1st of 2019 To add a paramedic to that third shift I say that we look to add that paramedic to the third shift as quickly as possible Which would be this july 1st, which means we add One of two things either a per diem paramedic To the budget which is a Call person that comes and goes and Might be here today might be not here tomorrow or We have rearranged the entire budget and a Paradigm shift to how we're going to operate as a fire department And put three personnel on And that number is within five thousand dollars of hiring a per diem paramedic Okay, and and just to be clear to make sure I understood line five which talks to the paramedic only per diem is just I shouldn't say just it's one person One per diem person at fifty eight thousand dollars For this year only Who is a paramedic only not a firefighter? So they can't like our other firefighter EMTs and our two new paramedic firefighters This person would not be a firefighter paramedic. It would be just a paramedic And we'd be exposed to this same per diem position Next year or the year after Unless we train one of our existing people to become a paramedic, which is far more expensive Than a per diem paramedic Like a hundred and twenty thousand dollars worth of Okay so ricks budget Or ricks budget with the per diem paramedic, which now means we have paramedic coverage on each of the three shifts or this entire shift to how we operate as a department which Trims back on call wage trims back on over time trims back in a lot of areas and and incredibly Freeze up enough Capital if you will that we can afford to hire three positions For almost the same as the proposed budget with a per diem paramedic The there there's some the nice part about a per diem paramedic is the third shift gets a paramedic The negative is that This is a person who's who's hired and it's the same Situation we can run into as we're having now with call staff We invest lots of time to bring people on we give them physicals. We train them They stay a short period of time and they move on And we're left with nothing for a person Along the way the full-time staff Has invested a lot of their time and sweat equity and train these folks that then move on And my my proposal is that We don't cost any existing call folks their jobs We just don't continue to fill Every year and fill and fill and fill we just put three full-time personnel in place And reduce the number of call positions that we try to fill every year and then The i'm looking at this sheet that Jennifer just hinted out And and the lower box on the bottom it's still under chief's budget And it corresponds to the line that says four person staffing net That would be approximately 63 280 in the salary Minus the 25 that we expect in the additional revenue. Yes, exactly Adding three personnel goes beyond the paramedic also just to recap and And i'm glad i can make the presentation to the to the two folks who weren't able to make it the night of my budget presentation um When we have our primary ambulance transport a patient um We normally but not always have one career person left to stay at the station If a fire call comes in that person goes by themselves and waits for call people looking back. If there's a medical call They're only able to first respond that call and we wait for mutual aid ambulance With another person per shift for per shift Now when toured the hospital when there's a medical call those remaining two people can take the second ambulance A lot of advantages. Um, we don't wait an extended period of time for the mutual aid ambulance or for our ambulance to come back from the hospital We also gain the revenue of transporting With our own ambulance And we will stop turning over the number of calls we turn over per year This past year we turned over 35 ems calls Which means some other service came into wills to generate the revenue and and handle the patients So there are a lot of positives for responding to fire calls having coverage minimum staffing career overtime That come with having the fourth person per shift If i could A chief uh chief morten just uh the 35 ems calls you turned over In the new budget for the increased revenue to use you assume those 35 would be covered Then do you assume you're covering calls from other towns as well? We currently do cover calls from other towns on a mutual aid basis on that would continue And and and of the 53 that we turned over this past year We would capture the majority of those i can't say 53 53 And and i i can't say we would cover all of those 53 next year, but we'd cover the majority of those 53 calls next year Interestingly enough we did our end of year number since i made my budget presentation 35 percent of our calls last year touched each other Which meant as we were on or occupied at a call we had a second call That includes the time at the hospital for the ambulance But um that's pretty remarkable That that that we had that much crossover And with the fourth person We now can handle two of those medical calls at the same time, which we can't do now And that's huge as far as The serving the community i'm going to put press cut on the spot for a moment Um because and there there are other factors um and and i not to take all night But at least to make sure if we communicate the message um There is we're seeing our staff Really worked a lot of hours And this past year was no exception Um and i wanted to bring you know the management labor team here tonight Um press getting out of a senior firefighter with the fire department He's been full time going into his ninth year. He's been on the department for 13 years And uh, he's also our our union our local president And and i think that this is the the chief with the union Are are agreeing that it's time We just spend so much time In that that that treadmill of bringing people on and and and they just don't stay And we don't develop Staff expertise like we could which we'd be able to do with more full-time personnel And also By having the fourth person We're not going to be asking the people to come in all the time for coverage right now Three people per shift three person in the staffing every single time somebody's out. We hire back in again He had the fourth person three person in the staffing now We don't have to bring somebody back in every single time. We're a shorter person What we won't have is a situation where group two just happens to be the the b-shift call what you will They didn't go out in New Year's eve They work New Year's day the day after New Year somebody called and sick And someone that had now been in the building New Year's eve New Year's day Had to work the third day What does that do for morale? And and that's that's a that's a theme we're seeing on a regular basis Uh, so I'm going to literally just take a couple of minutes. Um, I have a very very brief presentation Um, recognize most of you here, but I wanted to say good evening and thank you for having me here Um Like the chief said I have had the privilege of being on the wilson fire department for 13 years Um, I used to live just up the road and although now I haven't moved out of town I still serve very proudly on the fire department Um, meeting time is almost over. We're approaching that witching hour, but I just have a quick story for you Um I'm picking up from a medical call that I responded to in which an elderly woman had fallen and injured herself My two colleagues are en route to the hospital. One is in the back of the ambulance providing patient care The other is carefully navigating the snow cover roads en route to the hospital I'm assigned as the driver of the fire engine today and I'm alone As I put my equipment back on the engine my radio squeals Williston fire department, please respond to a mail reportedly unresponsive I hurry to put the last of my equipment back on the truck and go Traveling across town of the call my mind is racing Questions are creeping into my head as fast as the cars are driving by As the sirens blare trying to clear traffic for me Dispatch radios and update Engine two be advised your patient is not breathing Bystander CPR is now in progress This is not good I radio for help in the form of a mutual aid ambulance The question now is not what am I going to do? It is in what order am I going to do it? I need to ensure good compressions are being given. I need to start breathing for the patient I need to administer an IV for life-saving medication I need to console the terrified family The parking brake hisses as I arrive on the scene and I begin running around the truck grabbing the equipment that lv The automated external defibrillator the advanced life support bag and the regular medical bag The radio squeals one more time Engine two be advised your mutual aid ambulance is 20 minutes away As I burst through the door to the home every eye in the room is suddenly on me For a moment time stands utterly still until it is broken by a family member who asks Are you it? the story is One that any career staff member that were sitting in my seat right now could probably share with you I'm sharing you one of my experiences, but they could share similar ones I'm here to tell you that those type of instances do actually call occur and as the chief had mentioned that 35 percent of the time Odds are fairly good that you will only have one additional person responding to your emergency Simply adding that one additional train firefighter and emergency medical technician per shift Would drastically change how we operate It's not just how the care is delivered, but it is in the amount of time that is delivered Two people can perform life-saving measures far faster and with far greater accuracy than just that one would and finally I represents The wilson firefighters here and saying that we your wilson firefighters. We are here for you the select board We are here for them the town We love our jobs and we love being able to do them well We're simply asking for you to allow us to do our jobs to the best of our ability. Thank you And that wasn't scripted by the chief That's true That's just just for the record, but that's what we face every day And and it comes down to delivering the care being short of person all the time Not to mention all all that we deal with with trying to keep the call the department staff And what we've done is we've taken every single bit of this budget We've gutted it To be able to free up the money to be able to stand here tonight and say if you had a pretty impaired medic Which I think we should do Because we should not go another year and a half with one shift not covered by a parametric If we add that back in we're within five thousand dollars I mean kind of why we have this discussion Even if we were to choose not to do a pretty impaired medic It's it's less than the cost of one person to hire three And It's time We've we've been we've been down this rabbit hole over and over and and and it's just it's time We're we're we're running our wheels off We're we're crossing over calls more than one third of the time and and We as a department are telling you that we need to operate differently Thank you So how um on your paid professional staff the full-timers How has the turnover been since we implemented the service? We have in and and we're rather proud of this Um in 12 years of full-time staff We've only lost one firefighter emt in 12 years who left the job We lose upwards of 12 call personnel a year Year after year after year and we give them entry physicals and we buy them fire gear or ems gear We train them and train them and train them We pay them and then leave and we're left with nothing Our track record with career staff is is is stellar If we were to hire three personnel um, and I and I hope you Agree to and choose to do this There's a little added benefit in that we talk about one parametric per shift And if we weren't to hire the three and did the per diem person the need shift has a parametric But people have vacations they get sick right happens If we hire three people all three of these new hires would be firefighter paramedics Which means one shift would have two firefighter paramedics a second shift would have Two firefighter paramedics and the third shift would have one And currently we're exploring a grant To pay for the training of the second person on that third shift So now we'd have two paramedics per shift, which means when someone's out sick or on vacation We still have parametric coverage in the town So we've we've looked at every angle we Every tree to try to find a way to make this work and we feel so it's structured to work and we're very confident That fiscally it makes sense financially it makes sense and operationally it makes a lot of sense Any other questions? Any other questions Sorry Just more as you were telling your story this popped up You mentioned, um, I guess when you were on the on the way to the site of the I don't know if accents the right word You were told that the ambulance is 20 minutes away the Mutual aid ambulance If There had been two people at the station when you originally got the call It sounded like you took one of the engines If there had been two people at the station when you got the call because we now have four on staff Would you have been able to take the ambulance? Yes, and the only reason I say that is It is not uncommon for a mutual aid ambulance that that figure of 20 minutes is not really exaggerating Especially seeing as ambulance squads around us are also busy. And so mutual aid ambulance might be coming from Um, Richmond, it might also be coming from cold gesture. That's no lie. That has actually occurred So 20 minutes there stands up kind of thing. Um, so therefore even if we were to lower that to 15 minutes, for example What would occur is then that engine company with the two folks would be able to go back retrieve the ambulance And still even from the far reaches of our district be able to respond in and I would argue a far greater time Or far lesser timing as I should say To be able to handle that call because then the the it sounds very odd to say this But I'll shed a little insight as to what occurs when a mutual aid ambulance comes in There is a transfer of care and that is critical The information that is transferred and and the patient care that's transferred And because if it is mutual aid ambulance that patient is is Not out of the house yet That's also the transfer is the actual physical transfer of the patient And all of those little steps start adding up in minutes And as I as I had kind of indicated their time In a medical emergency is so underrated it is it's it's uh Incredibly important I I I get your tremendous I mean, I obviously had some experience with psych if you an Unbelievable amount of credit for what you're trying to do as one person on the scene And I don't care how with it and And level headed or how much of an adrenaline junkie you might be It is brutal An average average response time Within williston for firing a mescals of 4.2 minutes. You guys are amazing. What a perspective and that Right And then that counts baritone lane right that averages in baritone lane or williston where we go a lot We go a lot to north williston where we had our project presentation And even with that average in it was 4.2 minutes. It's one interesting little side comment Before we had our own ambulance service the ambulance Most of the time would come out of call chester So is that the same mics? Yes But but and the cold chest he's referring to press cuts referring to is actually cold chest to rescue a little farther away Okay So I've certainly heard what he said and I Tried to listen carefully. I do want to hear from rick and And jennifer to hear what it is. I should hear from it for lack of better words Don't take this Yeah, from the other not the other side, but your perspective maybe Exactly because rick you proposed a different budget and the chief must have talked to you as well So sure. Why are you proposing not agreeing to the chief martins? Well, it was um It's a very simple matter of numbers And I was trying to keep the budget increased down and so um I'm not at all opposed to what the chief is proposing. In fact, I support it The the problem is it is going to cost a little bit more money It's not a lot of money, but it's a little bit and when you you're trying to keep the overall budget down Every little bit makes a difference. So in that and maybe that's a good Transition to the next question, which is really Your decision and your guidance as to where you do you want the budget to end up Uh, and you know, you have this possible budget adjustment This is not the the only possible Adjustments that can be made in the budget. These are some important ones And these are ones that have been flagged because they represent changes in the existing budget And we may be able to come up with a few more I would like a sense at some point soon As to where the board would like to end up We will come back then with a list of recommended changes based on the target that you would like to reach And then you can decide As a policy whether you want to accept those or reject them and Hopefully whatever target you set will allow us to accommodate the request that the chief is making And you know, we'll you know, for example, let's say you wanted to Keep the budget Change the same as what I proposed So I would then have to come up with $63,000 and saving some of the budget Well, actually 40,000 because of the revenue That it generates So I would come back with some proposals and I I don't know what those would be at this point, but that's the kind of Guidance that we're looking for is and you know, this is Tonight was the the last budget presentation you've had so you haven't really had a chance to think about the overall picture But unfortunately, we don't have a lot of time between now and when the decision has to be made We'll be able to budget some time at our next meeting even though it's not a budget meeting To talk about budgets again But the sooner you can give guidance to staff the more chance we'll have An opportunity to come back with different alternatives for you to talk about and consider If you were to adjust those slightly down so that we're keeping the budget the same but able to accommodate For example, what the chief is asking for is that a possibility or does that just skew everything? Terribly am I articulating the question well enough? Well, I think And the first question is yes, it's a possibility Excuse me, but it does skew things and creates problems in the future We do each year analyze How much we're saving versus how much we need And we do make adjustments and there are some adjustments included in this budget and jennifer can speak to them better than I could So we we try to keep them accurate. So we're not Accumulating too much money for each thing But I don't know You're answering. Yeah, I was wondering what I was doing It really is a matter of degree if you mess with them a lot then you're basically throwing out the system And it's a system works really well but You know, I I guess what I would in the past what I've asked for is for the board to give us guidance As to where you want to end up we'll come back with recommendations You can either accept or reject them to your call But You know, I'd like an opportunity to provide some input on what our priorities are initially the match your Target and and there's been some years that we've come back with a List of recommendations the board didn't like them. They didn't want to make those changes Which is fine. I understand that because It is these are changes that affect the services that we provide. It's not just numbers. It's services and It's not easy decisions. Sometimes there are a few things that are pretty obvious Like, you know, if we have an estimate that We only really need to spend 10,000 in this one line item and we budgeted 15 Then that's going to be on the list for sure The 5,000 that we can save in there, but generally there aren't a whole lot of those So next week we'll be doing a bunch of other stuff We'll have hopefully all five members here And we can give staff direction at that time if we can come to consensus on what we want to see Changed and they'll have a week to he and Jennifer will have a week to Give us their recommendations back And we need to make a decision on the 23rd Okay Between now and then, you know, in thinking and looking over this While we can't Talk amongst at least several of us we can ask Jennifer Questions between and Of course formulate our opinions for the next discussion. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah Okay That would be helpful to me is One of the things I always look at is what is the impact on On the tax rate. What are homeowners? And businesses, but what are homeowners is kind of the one that always I focus on going to pay In terms of increase or possibly a decrease And when you presented the budget way back in early december Um The Anticipate based on that budget the tax rate was going to be 27 27.47 cents My question is is what is the current tax rate? I just don't have that So I can get a sense of when you originally presented the budget how much of an increase I know what it is percentage wise because I think it's over the 26 50 Yeah, 26.50. So if you look on Under on the revenue page of the sheet. I just handed out tonight Um, it shows the current tax rate. It's approximate. It says 26.56 Wait hang on a sec It's the revenue side And if you look in the far the bottom left hand corner of that page you see property tax rate current 26.56 that's approximately what oh, yes. Okay. Okay And so the the budget is just a hair that what I proposed is just a hair under a penny increase Keep in mind That We did not change the tax rate July 1st of 2017. It's so the the Tax rate we set in july 1st for 2016 is the same tax rate that got approved for july 1st 2017 Yeah, so What that's worth. Yeah Yeah, and that comes down to the fund balance or the revenues we use to Okay, all right That's helpful. Good. Thank you very much for your presentation Thank you. We try to present the metrics in the Storyline and the everything else. I have a quick handout A lot downstairs. Thank you. Yeah, this is a uh Ted's pile if you want. Perfect So it looks like we're up two managers report. Uh, I'm not sure Well, our next meeting is uh a week from tonight. It's a regular meeting We do have a number of items coming up Uh, so budget is only one little piece of it But we do have time at the end of the meeting for budget discussions The um Also want to remind the board that the legislative breakfast is still scheduled for the 29th So, um, if you haven't already let Lynn know of your intentions of whether or not you're going to be able to attend That would be great Announcement of that anybody at this point I'll double check to see what's going on with that Okay, I'll check with Lynn and see where we stand on that um So Lynn was supposed to send out something to us. Yeah, I well Yeah, the person responsible for each board, but in for the slack word. I've had Lynn do it in the past, but Um, maybe there's a crossing communication. So anyway, it'll get out And ted has agreed to serve as moderator, right? I saw him yesterday briefly January 3rd, we did in fact close on the jacob crowns property. So we now own that a breach I also mentioned in my report that joe fallon who has been legal counsel for the town for I don't I know in excess of 20 years. I don't know how much in the more in excess Is retiring at the end of this calendar year I have not yet figured out what process i'm going to be setting up To select a new legal counsel. It's most likely he's going to involve a committee of some sort And most likely you probably develop a request for a proposal And get proposals in from a number of different attorneys with experience and municipal law And That's all I have for this evening. Oh, I guess I already gave a report on the library that was the big news And I don't think I have anything more to add other than what was talked about earlier But that the good news is we hope to have the library open by the middle of next week and You know, fortunately the losses were kept to a minimum partly because of The staff's quick reaction and partly with the way they keep things in the library. They keep organized and Like all the things that were on the floor in the basement were in plastic bins And the stuff that wasn't in plastic bins were on shelves up above the water level. So That all worked out pretty nicely There was some I have some photographs i'll share with the board, but you can see clearly standing water on the first floor Yeah, it was a mess Yes I'm moving on to other business just for the select board's Information i'll be putting together the select board report for the town report. Hopefully this By before the end of the week, and I'll be sending it out to Uva email for your relatively rapid return Destructive criticism and other things that may change the the report Any other business that people If not