 Welcome back to the Artichoke Podcast, a show where we bring you actionable tips and strategies on how to better connect socially, boost your emotional intelligence, and navigate social behavior. I'm AJ. And I'm Johnny. This month is Mastering Connection, and we've packed it with actionable advice and science to improve your relationships in all areas of your life. Last week, we had a special guest on Leo Ligothidis. He had spent years traveling the world, relying purely on the kindness of strangers. He has a hit show on Netflix, Amazon Prime, the kindness diaries. Today, we're going to wrap up this month with a Q&A episode where we dig into our mailbox and answer your questions that you've sent in. And to help us, we have none other than Aaron Moroske with us, Aaron's a writer, an actor, as well as a coach here at the Artichoke. So many of you will maybe remember a show that we did a little while back on improv. You may notice her from our free challenge group, our YouTube channel. And of course, if you've gone through bootcamp, she's one of the coaches you've worked with in our video training. We did an interview with Aaron about a year ago where we talked about the power of improv and why working on your sense of humor is such an integral part of our bootcamp training. Well, a lot has changed since our last show, so it's time to bring her back and answer your questions. Welcome to the show, Aaron Moroske. Thank you. That was very formal. I like that. Now, apart from all the work you do with us at the Artichoke, you also are very active in the entertainment industry. And going along with that, obviously, we know that putting yourself out there certainly not easy, especially in a creative realm. Now, you were a finalist on the latest Austin Film Festival. And three of the scripts that you wrote are currently making their way through the Page International Screenwriting Awards. So when it comes to screenwriting, obviously it is competitive, especially here in Hollywood. So how do you deal with comparing yourself to others and the pressure that comes along with such a competitive environment? It's interesting because outside of other creative pursuits like Johnny can attest to this with music, you can't say you're a bass player in a band if you don't know how to play the bass. But with acting and writing and being in LA, so many people out here say they are an actor or a writer and I'll say to them, oh, what are you working on? What have you written? Well, I have this idea for this thing, right? So when you're out here, the competition is not even just, oh, I'm competing against other actors and writers who are very talented. But you're also competing against people who just say they do a thing that they don't actually do. And sometimes it can be disheartening because it's so, I mean, this town is flooded with people who say they do something, but they don't actually do that thing. And I'm not saying you have to be the best at it, but you have to actually start the doing of the thing. So I guess the way that I kind of deal with the competitive environment is try to just get better by training constantly. So whether that's, you know, taking classes, writing another script, letting people read them and giving me their honest thoughts, you know, that's all what's going to make you better and getting really, really laser focused on what you do well in those things. Acting and writing are broad subjects. So, you know, specifically I write comedy, especially sitcom, you know, 30 minute network sitcom is my like, you know, that's where I feel like I really excel. And then with acting, I'm usually either a kooky sidekick or I play a bitch. So those are my two go-to things. You know, you start to just like learn where you're, where your niche is. So you go along with that. I certainly have met a number of people out here who, who they're, they're a director, they're a writer, they're a producer, they're, they're everything. And, and it's like, well, you know, what, what's form is your script in? Where's it at? How do you present it? It's like, it's all up here. I get in front of the right guy and I'm going to let him have it. And it's like, yeah, that doesn't quite work that way. So, you know, Steven Spielberg's in front of you at Starbucks, you're just going to spit out your idea and think the deal. And no other, no other profession is really like that. You can't be like, oh, you know, I'm a doctor. Oh, what's your specialty? Where did you go to school? Oh, I'm just like, whenever an opportunity presents itself for me to do surgery on someone, I just do it. Like, you know, I'm not like, no, then you're not a doctor. And going along with that, obviously it's very subjective too. So when you're competing against other writers, you're going on auditions, it is very subjective as to who they're going to put in that role, what screenplay they're actually going to laugh at, what humor they're going to find funny. So it can be difficult at times to sort of orient yourself in such a subjective environment. Yes, definitely. I think for obviously our audience, maybe not dealing with entering competitions for their work, but when we talk about comparing ourselves to others, exactly that. It's important to compare yourself to yourself, right? And work on getting better. And I love that you brought up having mentors and friends who will give you honest feedback around your writing so that you can improve instead of getting so blinded by what everyone else is doing and seeing all of their awards and everything else going on in social media. We had just had a entertainment forum that we were a part of with the Scouts. And there was notable directors and writers there, including Tanya Acker. Tanya Acker who's doing, who's Judge Judy's prodigy. We had, what, Terrence Winner, the writer of Vinyl and Sopranos, and Francis. Lawrence. And Francis Lawrence, director of Hunger Games. How many people in that audience were sitting there going, if I just get the moment, I'm going to talk to Terrence and I'm going to tell him my idea and it's golden, it's on from there. Yeah. Of course, in those moments, there is a lot on the line. We feel pressure like, oh, I have to meet this person. I want to impress this person. And we've all been in that environment, whether it's in the entertainment industry or in our careers where we're like, hey, I have this person that I look up to that I want to get to know. And when it's your opportunity, how do you take advantage of that? How do you go in and approach those people? And it's funny, while we were at the event, we were watching a lot of people tentatively, like hoping they'd get an in. Sure. And then other people just walking up, putting their hand out and starting talking. And I think for a lot of us, that initial hello can be the most scary, but we saw that event immediately. They opened up. They started sharing their stories and they all remarked on stage just how much they enjoy giving back and helping support other people who are chasing their dreams. Well, here's something I think everyone needs to know. All those guys who are doing that event, right? They're very famous. They have a lot of things going on. Their time is very precious to themselves and to everyone that they're working with and they want to be respectful of that. However, they've blocked off a certain amount of time to do set event and be social and answer questions and be there. And that lot of event or that time that they have allotted for themselves is all it's going to be. So you could be one of the people tentatively hoping that you'll squeeze in and they'll brush by or you can go, as you said, walk right up and introduce yourself and use that time that they allotted for that to your advantage. Yeah, I mean, waiting on the sidelines, waiting for an opportunity for what of them to approach you is not a winning strategy. And just think about after that, those, they all went, they took some pictures, there was some glad hands, they were chatting with some people and turn around, poof, gone, right? There was time up, gotta go, next thing. Yeah, and I think the important thing, especially in the entertainment business, when you want to go introduce yourself to someone and you are also in the entertainment industry is to, I always call it like, try not to turn into like a fan girl or a fan boy and just, this is your industry. If this is your industry, then you should walk up to them as a peer and say, I really wanted to say hello, I so enjoy your work on vinyl or whatever it is. And then have a thoughtful question about a project they've worked on instead of just going, oh my gosh, I just love you so much, oh my gosh. It's like, put yourself at their level and they will, you're now giving them the cue of like, I should be respected on this level as well. And that genuine compliment, right? So just like saying, oh my God, I love you, but actually saying what it is that you love about their work, what it was about that movie that moved you or held you on the edge of your seat and talking about writing for various shows, he even said on stage, Terrence was talking about just rejection is a part of it even now, even when he's established. So going into it, you enter in an industry where not only is rejection gonna be a part of it, but having to wait to hear back. You submit your script, now you're waiting. How do you deal with that weight? I honestly have just trained myself to forget it. Like send things in, I submit for things. You know, I have rep working on the other side of things trying to, you know, and I don't, I used to, my gosh, the first time I had a manager, I used to be like daily email them of like, so what's, you know, how is this moving forward? And what's going on with this? Did you get any feedback on this audition for, and it's like, you have to like audition or send in a script or let things happen and forget about it and just start working on the next thing, like you're just wasting time, you know, if you're just sitting there waiting and going, well, this is gonna move forward. So I'm just gonna wait for it. Like you're wasting precious time that you could be creating your next project or training and getting better. And it's just unnecessary stress. It's just like forget it. And then when something happens, it's like this awesome surprise. And you're like, yeah. Yeah, Christmas and summer. You're like, hell yeah, I made it as finalist. Well, this is something you and I were talking about yesterday that no matter what business you're in, if you're putting all your eggs in one basket, you're gonna drive yourself nuts by having all these other opportunities on the table for those opportunities that you're trying to create for yourself to actually go to where a deal is inked and there's actually work and a transaction happening for that to finally take place. So many other little things have to fall into your favor. So do you have to just put a ton of it out there and hope for the best? Yeah, it's this business. I feel like people don't realize how long it takes for something to happen. My mother will always be like, well, you said that you guys, you know, sold this pitch. So like, why don't I like see it on TV? It's like, while we sold the pitch, now we have to write the script and it has to get approved by like 700 people, then they decide whether or not they'll even make a pilot that won't be aired. And then if that goes well, then you, I mean, it's like, it's a year. So many pieces. And even just, you know, like if you look at my resume or IMDB, you don't see all the things like as a writer, there are so many steps before having something successful and it doesn't mean that you aren't successful yet. It's like getting even, you know, like inching forward is such a huge deal in this business. You and I have talked about this before and we've all seen the lines of the cattle calls to audition for parts. And I'm sure going to your first one and how you approached that and left that and what you were feeling certainly has changed all these years into that industry where it's like, I'm doing what my agent told me to do, I'm showing up, I'm leaving, I got other things to do. Maybe I get a callback, maybe I won't, but you're not gonna go home and cry, if you know. No, my gosh. It's funny because when I first, I moved from Orlando to New York City and in Orlando, I was this huge fish in a tiny pond and like, you know, I would go on all auditions, I got asked to be in plays and things without even having to audition and I moved to New York and I went to this seminar at SAG at Screen Actors Guild and I had been there two weeks and it was this career coach and she was like taking questions from the audience and I raised my hand and I was like, can you please help me figure out how to get an agent? I still cannot get an agent, I've been trying so hard and she was like, well, how long have you been here in New York? And I said two weeks. I mean, this isn't my early 20s. The feeling, if you could like feel something in a room, like I felt everyone look at me like. Oh, I've been there. You are such a gullible green moron, but I'm so glad I had that experience so that now I'm like, oh, patience is such a virtue in this business and it's not gonna happen overnight. You have to learn those lessons in that manner as well for them to take it. And of course we have a lot of questions and a lot of people will come to us. So afraid to decide on the wrong path or they don't wanna make a mistake. Unfortunately, those mistakes are how you learn and so you gotta throw yourself into it. Now, in teaching the women's program, we incorporate all the concepts from the men's program and one of those exercises involves approaching people and talking to strangers. And it was funny in the programs we've run, the pushback that we got from the women participants. Men, obviously super excited to learn how to approach, understand its importance in networking and obviously dating. Women, typically in the dating realm, are the ones being approached and oftentimes in the networking realm, they're not really doing much approaching. So of course the women on program were very hesitant to do this exercise and you had a great experience of just how important it is no matter where you are, no matter what sex you are to be approaching people and be willing to put yourself out there. Yeah, I mean, the Austin Film Festival last year, it was awesome because I was a finalist so you get to wear the little badge that says you're a finalist and people know, you know, like, oh, wow, okay, this person has written something great and I had to go by myself though, like none of my friends were able to go, my husband wasn't able to come with me and so being a part of that festival or getting to go to all of these mixers for free and just meet people, I was like, oh my gosh, I realize I haven't really been in this situation in a while where I am just totally by myself and I'm going and the whole point of being here is to try to make some connections with people and you know, enjoy the festival of course but like, you know, moving forward, this business is really so much about relationships and just like, you know, helping other people out, meeting people, you can be like, oh, I can connect you with so and so and that would be a great partnership. So realizing I have to go up and talk to people and it does not matter, you know, some of the pushback in the women's program is like, well, I'm married or well, I'm not looking to pick up guys and it's like, who cares? First of all, anytime you first meet someone, it shouldn't be loaded with like, I just talked to a guy in the phone yesterday who was interested in a program and he was like, should I open with like, do you have a boyfriend? When I go and talk to a woman and I'm like, no, you should just genuinely see if you hit it off with this person as a person before anything else. So an approach shouldn't have an agenda behind it immediately, right? You shouldn't be going and going like, I need this thing from this other person. So I think taking that out of it, it's harder for women to take that out of it or they just don't wanna take it out of it because they don't wanna have to approach and put themselves in that situation. But it's like, take that out of it. Just be like, especially at a festival, it's so easy. Everyone's here to make friends. Everyone's here for that reason. So just going up and going like, hey, I'm here by myself. I just wanted to say, hi, what are you working on? What brings you to the festival, right? And the first couple of times I did it when I was there, I was like, I had to like gear myself up. I'm like, okay, those people, yeah, I'm gonna go over there. But it just got easier and easier. Everybody needs that push sometimes. Even people who do this all the time, you gotta kind of like do whatever you need to do to rub yourself up. And what was funny about the experience for the participants in the program was after going through the exercise, learning how to approach from the side instead of direct, taking away all that connotation that was in their head around, oh, this is gonna be sexual. This is gonna be flirty. Actually open them up more and made them realize like, wow, this is a lot of fun. I wanna go out and actually enjoy some parties and talk to some more people instead of sitting on the sideline. And I think that's a very valuable lesson for all of us. I know Johnny and myself, even when we go in the networking events, we're like, okay, you just gotta get the first few conversations on your belt. Take it one conversation at a time. You're gonna get warmed up, loosened up. And then next thing you know, you're gonna have a great connection. And I asked those women too, and they were really feeling like, we're not gonna need these skill sets. I don't need to approach people. Even one woman was like, my business is centered around working with other women. I don't need to. And I'm like, okay, well, let's think about this. Of the most successful women you think of, do you think that they got where they were by saying, I only talk to other women. I don't approach people. And it's like, no, that's even more so the difference of being a woman in any business of like, you have to have that assertiveness. You have to be okay getting out of your comfort zone and presenting yourself to other people. Yeah, I mean, you give away all of your power and agency if you say, I'm not gonna approach people. I'm just gonna take what comes at me. And life doesn't work that way. If you want opportunity, you have to go out and pursue that opportunity. Now, before we get to our listener questions, there's one question that you recently answered on a Facebook live for our graduates and our client community. And it was so important that we wanted to revisit it. So for those of you that don't know what the graduates community is, we have an exclusive community for all of our clients. And basically every single week we host Q&As where they get access to all of our coaches to work on whatever it is that they've not only developed in the program, but it's going on in their social lives. And the question was, how does improv help with self-development? I know we talk a lot about improv on the show. We had an episode dedicated to it. We're big proponents of improv largely because of you joining the team. So what are your thoughts on improv and how it helps with self-development? Yeah, I think I said on the Facebook thing that I'm like, how doesn't it help self-development? There's so many ways that it does. And it's funny because sometimes people think like, well, I don't want to be a performer, so I don't need to do improv. It's like, I actually think it's better for people who aren't pursuing performing. It's just a way to get out of your comfort zone. So it's a way that you're constantly having to get out of that comfort zone. You're going to go to a class with people you don't know, you are going to be maybe given a one word suggestion or something, and then you have to get up in front of other people and create something in the moment. And then it also just greases the wheels in your head of that quick thinking, free associating. It allows you to free associate quickly so that when you're having a conversation with someone and they bring up like, oh, I was just vacationing in Greece. Okay, now my mind goes to 50 different things about like, oh, Grease, I always want to take a cruise around the Mediterranean. Greek food is my favorite, whatever. The things that come up, it just greases that wheel of free associating. And then it also, my favorite thing about it is it helps you not take yourself so seriously, right? Like we all, a lot of times the anxiety we get with approaching or having conversations and connections with people is because we're like, I have to do this correctly. I have to like follow some formula. And it's like, don't take yourself so seriously. Have a little bit of fun. It's so much, life is so much easier when you, let yourself make some mistakes and take it easy. It definitely is about building trust. You have to trust your partners on stage and it's a safe environment for you to make those mistakes. And a lot of times the mistakes and improv are just as funny as the ones who actually hit. So that's a great life lesson when it comes to self development. And the other thing, a lot of us, as we get older, we get settled into our careers. And we're usually at our job from 40 to 60, maybe 70, 80 hours a week. And you're using your brain in a certain manner that allows you to excel in that situation. By going to improv, you get to practice other tools, put on a different hat and get stronger in that area. The tools that you're gonna learn and develop an improv work really well for socialization because socialization is an art form whereas in engineering, it either works or it doesn't and there's a lot of logistics and a lot of laws that are gonna come into play. And the way you go into that is completely different. I couldn't agree more and I feel like we hear this a lot, this thought that, well, I'm boring, right? You guys have this great life. You guys have all this stuff going on, but I'm boring. And that's another valuable lesson of improv is that everyone walks in the room, puts on, hey, I'm gonna have some fun, let it loose and speak my mind free association. And you realize that you're not boring. You have a lot to say. You have a really strong sense of humor that regularly you probably only articulate it with your best friends or people you really feel close to and in those moments, those are really the most celebratory moments of improv. We're like, okay, everyone's laughing too, enjoying this joke and you get to have some wins which is what self-development's all about. Yeah, and a lot of times when guys say, well, I'm not funny, I don't have a sense of humor, it's because they're going in thinking I need to try to be funny and one of the big rules of improv and when you're taking class or improvising with new people, there's always that person who's like pushing so hard to be funny and it usually falls flat, right? Like being you and not taking yourself seriously is what allows you to be funny. It's just get relaxed and yeah, and just be yourself. Everybody has a different type of sense of humor. You just gotta find what yours is. Yeah, we were talking to a comedy professor at USC and he was talking about having students model different comedians and how it typically doesn't work because when you're trying to model someone else's sense of humor in their mannerisms, it's not you and improv allows you to be the more fuller version of yourself. The first question we have is from Maria. Hey, AJ and Johnny, huge fan of the show and I especially loved your episodes on how to deal with toxic relationships. I recently broke up with my partner because it was not a healthy relationship. I've since spent a lot of time thinking about all of my past relationships and the pattern that keeps showing up was I think codependency. Either the relationship started out codependent or it turned into one pretty quickly. I'm sure it's not all on me but it seems to be something that I get myself into. I've just started dating again and this time I wanna come prepared and for that I need your help. What are some ways in which I can detect codependency early on and also what are some ways in which a relationship can become codependent after a few weeks or months? What's a good way to prevent this? Thank you so much. Please keep doing what you're doing and I'm hoping to join you on that woman's bootcamp next year. Yeah. Codependency. Yeah, this is something I'm definitely familiar with. That's, you know, everyone has their big Achilles heel and thing they work on with themselves and I feel like when I learned about codependency I was like, oh, this is like the key that will unlock so much. You know, and the thing with codependency is typically it comes from growing up, you know, in a household that maybe had one or both parents with addiction. So you have a certain amount of chaos that you crave in relationships because you've seen that modeled that like a little bit of fighting or yelling or like some friction and tension is the norm for you. So when a relationship doesn't have that, typically that's not the relationship you get into. You get into a relationship because you're unknowingly craving a bit of chaos. You have some comfort in chaos. You know how to deal with things when they're a little bit crazy. So I think as far as, because there were a few questions around that in this letter, I don't think you can control the relationship from not being a codependent relationship. All you can do is control your behavior and I know for me a lot of I'm on the side of, you know, where I am the codependent. So I, my pattern is I start to try to control, you know, like the situation because there's chaos. So I need to control it. I need to fix the person. So instead I turn that around and find ways to appreciate the person and give encouragement. I cut them slack instead of like putting everything under a microscope, I go like, you know what? So he didn't do the, you know, his dishes today. It's okay. He did my dishes like, you know, a couple of times last week. And I also set boundaries, you know, I had my current relationship is not a codependent relationship, but I've had my share. So I think the big thing for me was that I didn't set boundaries. I made it okay for people to treat me in a poor way. I made it, it was okay if, you know, one second that person was shining the light on me and I was the center of their universe, but it was also okay if they completely ignored me and didn't get back to me, you know? So it's like, you really have to, you know, be clear about your boundaries with the other person. And if they don't respect those, then maybe that's not the relationship to be in. But as a codependent setting boundaries is a huge challenge. I think something else to go along with that. Certainly you should come into it working on yourself and not expecting somebody else to complete you. Because that is, that's where you're looking at this other person and every time that you feel lost, scared, upset, you're looking to the other person, fix me, fix me now, make me feel good. And they're like, I have my own life. I have my own things going on here. And so now you're not only looking to this other person to complete you, you're constantly taking and draining from them and putting all the pressure on them to make you feel whole. And certainly that's gonna go too as well. Well, we've talked about this on the show with codependency, oftentimes your interests, your friends, everything goes to the wayside and the relationship becomes all consuming. And a lot of times those guardrails disappear immediately because we have this huge chemical spike. We're so infatuated with one another that we're like, oh, I can hang out with my friends later. And all of a sudden we're creating this environment that is going to lead to codependency because we've thrown all of our eggs into this metaphorical basket. So working on yourself, one, absolutely important. Number two, really pursuing those passions outside of the relationship. Coming into the relationship, having your own life, having a strong social circle, having things going on in your life that excite you outside of the relationship is also important because the codependency line turning into controlling, turning into, okay, I need to know where you are. You need to be with me at all times. I don't feel safe without you. Those behaviors are typically starting at the initiation of that relationship because you've created this pattern that this is acceptable. I need you to drop everything to spend time with me and I'm willing to drop everything to spend time with you. Also, obviously looking back at your past is very key here. You've already started to do that, which is a great first step. But think about what are the qualities in your past relationships that attracted you to that person and what are the qualities that you weren't so attracted to that sort of popped up after the fact. A lot of us don't realize that, you know, we pay so much attention to the qualities that we like. We don't realize it's the qualities that we don't like that are the reason for a lot of the strife in our relationship. So being clear on what are the qualities I'm looking for and what are those qualities that, you know, I just don't jive with really well. And everyone, as we talked about earlier this month, has different love languages, ways they communicate things. Understanding your own is gonna help you a lot from protecting you from potentially getting into another codependent relationship. Yeah, and I would highly recommend also Melody Beatty's book, Codependent No More and Language of Letting Go. Language of Letting Go is like a daily, it's got like a daily, you know, a piece of advice and just dives a little bit into codependency every day in a different way. And it's, I know when I go through my periods where I'm really struggling with it, I read that each morning in journal and it helps a lot. So journaling, absolutely. A lot of us don't realize in the moment when we're feeling these things, we can reflect after the fact, but having a regular journaling practice can allow you to see some of these signals sooner than later. Something else that Aaron brought up, I wanted to chat about a little further is if you've grown up in a codependent household where there is a lot of fighting, a lot of drama, and that becomes the norm for you. If the relationship is going well and it's very calm and very chill, you're gonna start shit just because that's what you need in order to feel that everything is okay. And what you're doing when you're doing this is you're now setting up your partner to become very sensitive to cues of upsetting you and wearing them down to where they become very passive and submissive. And then they have to take on this character that you're placing on them, which is what you had seen from the adult relationships in your life, possibly your parents, when they cannot be themselves. And that becomes very stifling as well. Here's a question from Smithy. Hey, AJ and Johnny, hope you're doing well. I enrolled in charismatic conversations recently and completed a few of the lessons in the first module. I wanna seek your advice. How do you make an impression on people around you? How do you make yourself noticeable? And how do you make people want to be with you? Not in a romantic sense, but purely as friends. I try to listen to people and their feelings and I try to help them in times of need and even do small acts of kindness. But I never see them reciprocated or people willing to include me in their lives. Due to such tendencies over the course of years, I've tried to avoid people in social situations. This in turn has not helped me in any way either. Rather, my social skills have deteriorated and my exposure and experiences have been very limited. My thinking about the whole situation is I'm not street smart and do not demand anything from anyone. And this in turn makes me inconspicuous. I am the Miss Goody Two Shoes, always obliging, but never otherwise in the picture. My life and career have been greatly affected by this and I need to take steps to rectify this sooner rather than later. There's so much in this question. Where do you wanna start, AJ? Well, let's start with the first impression, right? Because obviously make an impression around you, it starts with that first impression. That really sets the tone. We've talked about this on the show, talked about it in charismatic conversations that it's very difficult to reset a first impression. Those tend to be very indelible, scientifically speaking. So we wanna obviously make a great first impression to start because that first impression can lead to the lasting impression that you're looking for. So looking at your body language, which is one of the big things that we delve into in our program, a lot of us don't realize and as we'll dig into what's going on mentally for this person is when we're feeling anxious, when we're personally feeling judged and obviously we're hearing how greatly this has affected their life, apparently when that's going on inside, you are showing it externally, typically in ways you're not even aware of. It could be eye rolls, it could be crossing of arms, it could be showing judgmental looks just when listening, not realizing subconsciously that this is going on, which is leading to other people feeling uncomfortable around you. Now this is something, of course, we were talking with Aaron about earlier and it's learning to be a good actor, learning to be able to, no matter what you're feeling inside to be able to put on the face you need in order to make that best first impression. I and AJ knows this, I'm silly not, I don't have the best poker face, my- We're still working on your acting. Yeah, there's no Academy Awards yet. There's certainly no Academy Awards. However, I certainly know the face that I need to put on when I'm going into those situations and I do it to the best of my ability. And so we have to start there. And are you able to be a good actor and think about all the things that lead to a good first impression, certainly a smile standing up tall and going in hoping for the best rather than going in and hoping the worst doesn't happen. And obviously, speaking of, I listen to people. I try to help them in times of need, even small acts of kindness, but it's never being reciprocated. That right there says, you're not doing it because you actually want to be kind and you care about these people. You're doing it with the expectation that something's going to come back at you and people pick up on that. Yes they do. People pick up on that. And you may think, oh, there's no way they know that. And honestly, I don't even really think that, but just listening and reading this, it shows that your intent through all of that of trying to listen to people and their feelings, trying to be kind and in their lives in times of need, and I'm not getting it back. Well, that is also being sent in your communication, whether it's verbally or non-verbally, and that's leading to people feeling distant and feeling uncomfortable. Here's what makes this difficult. If you go into an interaction being transactional, then the odds are you're looking for this to be reciprocated in the exact same way that you had given them value. And now, if we go back just a few weeks ago, we know that through love languages that not everyone speaks in the same manner. So though you may have given a little gift or you threw out some words of affirmation, and those things didn't come back in the way that you had given them, well, of course you're getting upset, and of course you're getting angry, and now that's painting it of how you see all your interactions because you're in a transactional state. We talk about being high value, and we talk about giving, and to the service of others, there has to be an idea of what you're willing to give out, and going back to, without putting all your eggs in one basket, if you're just a giving person, then that value is going to be coming back to you in so many different ways, and from so many different places. However, if it's just Aaron that I had given words of affirmation to, and now I'm going to sit here with my arms crossed over my foot, waiting for you to give them back, and you've baked me a cake, and I'm like, what is this cake? Where is my words of affirmation? Well, of course I'm going to get upset, and you can only continue doing that for so long before it starts eating away you. Yeah, and I think also, a lot of you were mentioning the wording of the second paragraph, but it's there in the first two of like, how do you make people want to be with you? And I mean, this is the thing, that especially towards the end too, when you can see that she has ideas about herself, like I am not street smart, I don't demand anything from anyone, I miss goody two shoes. All of this stuff is like, well, so we're going in transactionally, and you're also being a bit, so like desperation and neediness, people sense that, and unfortunately it's like, it's kind of makes people uncomfortable and makes people want to not be a part of things. So when you're saying like, how do you make people want to be around you? People want to be around someone who's confident in themselves, who have a good time regardless of what other people are giving to them or sharing with them, and especially with the, well, I'm listening to people and I help them out, why aren't they reciprocating? How patient are you being? How long are you waiting for this reciprocation? Sometimes you don't realize what, yeah, but when you've set that impression on someone and you've been kind to someone, even if they don't reciprocate it right away, it's something they will remember throughout your friendship, your relationship, and it will come back to you. But you have to either think it will come back to me or I just like, I did this because it felt good to be kind. Right. And that's the other thing. Right, we've talked about this. Happiness is tied to being in service of others and not looking for that input back in your direction. Now let's do a little improv here. Let's play a little free association. When you hear the phrase, Miss Goodie Two Shoes, what does that mean to you? Are you asking me? Oh, yeah, I was gonna answer that. What is it? This is improv. Yes. Let's hear it. You know, there's so many different ways I can go. It could be somebody who's always looking to help others. It could be somebody who always follows a straight and narrow path. It could be somebody who has a certain moral code that may be a little bit uptight. My free association is judgmental. That's what I was thinking too. Someone says Miss Goodie Two Shoes, it's typically someone who puts themselves above others and judges other people's actions very critically. Gotcha. And when you are wearing that hat of judgment of others, well, of course you're not gonna receive kindness or generosity or people's time even. People don't wanna be judged or criticized. So Miss Goodie Two Shoes, if you're hearing that from other people, that means that they're feeling criticized and judged around you. They're feeling less than. Miss Goodie Two Shoes is not a label that you should strive for. Yeah. Well, no one wants to go into a room that they're gonna constantly feel judged by every movement and everything that they say. That is a horrible place to be. Another thing here that's interesting is when people realize that they're looking at the world and their social interactions transactionally, their first question is how do I get out of that? And this is what we talk about by cultivating high value mindsets and behaviors. And this is not a switch that you flip on. This is the process of getting better every day of cultivating high value behaviors and mindsets. Just this, how do I get people to like me? Right there, there's a mindset problem of looking to others to complete you, to allow you to be happy. You need to take that power back. How else do you build a high value behaviors and mindsets? Well, what is the routines that you are doing in your daily life that is continually reinforcing this power to you rather than others? Every decision you make is either one of empowering yourself or empowering those, giving up your power to those around you. That needs to be settled. Those things need to be ironed out. Yeah, I definitely feel like I had written down if you're looking for this much external validation, right? You're never gonna be happy because you're also, you already have the mindset of like, people think these crappy things about me, but you're also still looking for their validation and it's very like, you know, like you're really trying to pull it from people. Just get good with yourself. Go into these interactions going, I'm gonna bring happiness, I'm gonna bring joy, I'm gonna light up the room and have a good conversation with this person. The last point I also wanna make on here is if you're looking to start cultivating these new behaviors and mindsets, they're gonna help you in these situations. The other thing is you have to let go of your past. There's also a mention here of in the past, this person has always had these struggles. Well, we're using an absolute, we had talked about that, but also if you do not let go of that past, you're not gonna be able to start moving forward. Yeah, so breaking it down simply, actionable. Number one, we need more exposure to people. We can't keep avoiding people. So we gotta break that pattern. And when we're exposing ourselves to people, not in a decent way, I hope, we want you to be smiling, making eye contact, having open body language, which is uncrossing your arms and being fully present in the conversation, right? Again, going back through what's going on subconsciously here, I think there's a lot of nonverbal body language that's making the people around you uncomfortable. So just focusing on your body language first, going out there, wearing a smile, nodding along as listening is a great first step. Get that down till it's habitual, till it's a habit you feel comfortable going into any room smiling. Then we can start to build off of that. We can start to see some wins, people responding differently to us. And we have to remove the transaction from the equation. When you're going in looking at everything as a zero sum game of, well, I gave this to Johnny, I'm not getting anything back from Johnny, you're missing out on the entire high value system that we're talking about here, which is we're giving for the sake of giving, we're not giving for the sake of what comes back at us. I think also your positivity needs to be unshakable. So like you said, being a good actor, this legit happened to me two days ago, I covered a class for Katie who you guys have met before at Bar Method, I teach Bar Method as well. And a client came up and was like, I thought Katie was teaching, this is right before I started class. And I said, oh no, Katie asked me to cover for her, so I'm teaching today. And she was like, well, I only like Katie's class. And I was like, you know what? I bet you might like mine too. And she was like, I don't think so, you're gonna have really big shoes to fill. And I was like, well, here we go, let's find out, right? And I just kept having a big smile. I encouraged her throughout class. And after class she was like, I did have a nice time. But it's one of those things where now you could let that shake your confidence and go in and be like, oh crap, this one person in class out of 20 doesn't like me. And I'm not gonna be able to win them over. It's like, just stay with your positive attitude. And most of the time you win people over. And think about this, Erin. How much work have you had to do on yourself in analyzing your experiences for the lessons that you could take from them for that very situation for you to hold it together, to do exactly what you know you needed to do to have a stronger frame, have her soak into to give you the attention that you need to do the class, big smile, she has fun. And that doesn't come by just flipping a switch. No, that's like years and years. I mean, I would say eight years ago, if that happened to me, I probably would have been teaching class, holding back tears, thinking, I'm not kidding. Like really, like, because I would start beating myself up in my head going, like, yeah, you're not as good of a teacher as other teachers are. This person, you know, like, if she feels this way, probably other people do too. Someone else is also disappointed in the class, probably, right? And I was like, no, I am a good teacher. She'll love my class. There's an example of that that I was just thinking that comes to the work that we do and that Erin has so expertly helped us out with with the improv class. There was a particular really quiet group one week. They were just, they were very quiet. A lot of introverted guys. And because they weren't very expressive, and this was early in your time working with us, you're like, you hit me up afterwards. You're like, I don't think they liked it. No one said anything. There wasn't, they weren't, they didn't seem to be smiling or enjoying themselves. Like the regular class was like, I'm sure it was fine. And of course I went in the next day and they wouldn't stop talking about what a wonderful time they had. And so I'm just laughing. I was like, we all know what that we need to do in those situations. Can we hold it together? And this is why once again, self-development is so important because this is the work that we do in order to handle these situations. The last thing I want to end with is breaking this goody two shoes. We talked about listening to their feelings, trying to help them in times of need, doing small acts of kindness. It's not working. So we got to change what we're doing there because that approach isn't working. Being someone who is appreciative of others, genuinely appreciative, celebrating the people around you, not looking to give gifts and the other things you've been doing, but genuine appreciation I think can turn that mis-goody two shoes on its side and listen to today's challenge because I think it's also gonna help you, Sumathi. All right, next question here is from Evan. Hey, AJ and Johnny, to give you a little context about myself, I'm a 20 year old business undergrad from Canada. I'm a huge proponent of lifestyle and mindset so many people in my program are striving to become as qualified as possible but have what I feel is only surface level perspective into what or why they're doing what they do. Being a people person, I can really get behind the notion that social dynamics, emotional intelligence and a healthy mindset can mean all the difference for someone's life. Something I struggle with at times is confidence and being malleable to those around me. Do you have any advice for me related to these areas or wisdom in general that you'd be willing to share? I love what you guys do and I'll keep on listening. Thanks for taking the time to read this all the best. So question is, how is it that we can stay confident but malleable to those around us? Obviously we don't wanna err on the side of arrogance over confidence and arrogance typically is going along with Ms. Goody two shoes, right? It's elevating yourself above others. So we wanna make sure that our confidence is not at the detriment of those around us, right? We're not getting our confidence from putting other people down. There's confidence and then there's having to be the center of the conversation, having to feel like you have to lead everything and so letting other people take the lead and encouraging and supporting them is a way of malleable. Certainly. Well, there is a, one of the concepts that we teach in class is the stronger frame always dissolves the weaker one. Now, the problem with this is the minute a lot of people hear that idea, well of course they wanna develop the strongest frame that they possibly can. And then what happens is they think that it needs to be their frame that leads always and that becomes a lot of work because you don't wanna be around somebody who is going to make everything always about them. So it's being a good leader is somebody who is able to understand and see opportunities to elevate others to lead in those situations and help them out. When you continually make everything about you, it's draining for everyone around you in that room. And you could think of this idea as I have a hoop and I'm always putting the hoop on other people. And if I'm always putting the hoop on other people and you're in my reality, it's difficult for you then to be yourself. Why? Because I have expectations of how you need to act when you're in my presence. And if you don't, I will either get upset, frustrated with you or will ignore the behaviors and actions that you're doing and just project you are acting in the way that I am. So when you do something that is so outside of that, those behaviors, now I'm angry. Why, Erin, why are you not acting the way you're supposed to act? You're like, I'm doing my thing. And we've seen this, it happens a lot. This definitely as much as I hate to be like this relates to improv, but it does really relate to improv. I used to be in a group with someone who was, it was like the bulldozer. Every scene, they had to initiate every scene. Even if you initiated, they came in and would try to change it. And they weren't a team player in a way where they could support the other people. Sometimes you do have to be the person who starts the scene and gets things going and gives everybody a direction to move towards. But then sometimes you have to jump on the train that someone else sets up and really support them and move their idea forward. And that's very much like conversation and being able to be confident, but also not always the bulldozer. Yeah, and I completely agree that when you've reached this point where you've made some realizations about yourself, you're trying to self-actualize, you're working on yourself, it can be difficult when you see people around you that you feel have untapped potential, but haven't made those connections, haven't reached those conclusions. And I mean, Johnny, you could smile about this. Over the 12 plus years working or at a charm, we've had numerous interns, staff members come in and try to go set up something and we'll tell them, hey, that's not gonna work and then they'll go do it anyways. And we'd be sitting here scratching our heads, being like, I'm telling you, that's not gonna work. We've already made that mistake. People have to make the mistake themselves. People are not gonna listen to you just because you're a little higher up the mountain, so to speak, metaphorically and you've made these conclusions. So being malleable is allowing other people the opportunity to self-discover, to understand that, hey, this tool is not the right tool for the job. Not you barking orders at them or giving them instructions. So I have actually learned a lot of patience just from running the company and bringing on all these team members and I like to joke with Amy about having kids, like, well, you know, I've already had thousands at this point with all the training we've done so I'm good at having children because you understand the value and actually learning the lesson through experience versus having it told to you from someone else. And I think something else that goes with this, when you're a young person and you're working for a company that you really enjoy or you wanna excel, you wanna get better, so you have these ideas, you say you wanna do this and your boss tells you, hey, listen, that's not gonna work. And you think, well, I think it might. Now, here's before you go and do it anyway, or you grab the hammer. Or you grab the hammer. Here's how you can gain the knowledge. Go, you know, I'm curious to know why it won't work. And then they can tell you through their experience all the different components of why that's not gonna work. Then you might go, I'll put the hammer back down. I can see where he's coming from. Or you might pick it up and go bang on some stuff anyway. But at least they had an opportunity to explain to you why and the reasons why you don't wanna do that. Cause you might be doing that to your own detriment. Yeah, we all value our own experiences more than others. I'm not watching other people's wedding videos. I'm not going on Instagram, watching other people's vlogs. Like I enjoy my life. Like that's what I want. I want that experience. And other people, when they're learning, they're gonna learn through experience more than you mentoring unless they actually come to you and say, hey, I need help with this. But just saying, you know, I'm a little further on the self-discovery platform here. I've made some realizations that my classmates haven't. So I'm gonna be confident, but I'm also gonna be a little rigid because I know the right way to maneuver that is gonna lead to some people being frustrated. But, and I will say the fact that you're 20 and you're already on the self-discovery journey is so amazing because one of the main refrains I hear over and over again on Saturdays with the boot camps is I hear guys go, you know, there's always like some younger guys in the group and some older guys in the group. And the older guys are always like, man, if I had come through this boot camp when I was 20 years old, I can't even imagine the difference it would have made in my life. You're so lucky that you have started this young. But, you know, and I always say to them, it doesn't matter where you are, you know, in what age or whatever you're moving forward from this point, but it is true. Like the fact that you are already, you know, working on this stuff and trying to be the best person you can to your friends who might not have the same mindset is a great thing. Question here from Trey. I was in a long distance relationship for a year, almost two, and we ended after I took some time for myself to get over her and I've recently started to try to date again. Well, I went out with this woman who we started talking a few weeks back, then met and hooked up. First question. We started talking over SMS and Facebook before we met and on there it was fluid. It was great. Well, when we met up, it wasn't like I couldn't even get the words. Well, when we met up, it was like I couldn't even get the words out. As much as I wanted to talk to her, what I wanted to say, I either couldn't get the words out because I was so nervous or I hadn't done it in a while and I didn't know what to talk about because we talked about basically everything over SMS. What do I do to better prepare myself so I don't freeze up or so that I'm not so nervous? And then we'll get to the second question. Johnny's already shaking his head here. Yeah, we certainly talked about this in the dating episode and we talked about these dating apps and you do not want to get sucked into these long incessant texts back and forth because you then have to show up in person and the problem with this, and this is upon first meeting, the problem with this is you can take your time with text. So you got the match, you send a zinger, she sends you a zinger and you have all day to think about how you want to respond. Now you're sitting there on your phone, the three dots show up, the three dots disappear, the three dots show up, the three dots disappear and 10 minutes later, you have that magic zinger that just nails it. Your friend can tell you like, oh, this is what you should say, right? Like you could literally have a joke writer for you. Yeah, and so it's that at the beginning, the text is just to set up logistics so you all can meet and get some one-on-one time. I would even recommend it and I recommend it on that episode. This is a challenge. Yes, to communicate back and forth, couple texts and then move to get a telephone number so you all can chat and then if everything sounds good from there, then go and set up a date and in fact, the challenge that we had posted was if you had gotten a match to not text more than five times back and forth and set up the date and upon that, we had so many, certainly from the guys going, what, just five? I mean, what about it? You're not going to make a connect. I could even get to line number 10. It works all the time. Yeah. And that's the thing. This is a common fallacy. We think that we are building rapport and connection over text. We think that, oh, we are sharing all of our likes and our history and we're having this great text conversation and then you get in the room and you realize, guess what? There's more to communication than words on the screen. There's the emotions being conveyed through your body language, your vocal tonality, your presence, which is not there when it's on a screen. So we've been saying this for 12 years now. Even when we were giving Dishing Dating Advice back in 2008, we said phone number, texting only for logistics. When you're trying to build a connection with someone, you have to do it in person. What ends up happening with this fallacy is you put all of this pressure on yourself. You don't even realize you're putting it on yourself because things are going well and you're like, man, this is great. And then you show up. You've talked about everything you wanted to talk about before the date. You don't know anything else that there is to talk about because you've gone the deep dive on their Facebook profile. You saw all their friends where they had their spring break in 08. And now all of a sudden, we've covered everything. I got nothing. And the actuality of that through that texting, you haven't covered anything because what's important here is all the commonalities that you might have through those profiles. The way that person had come to posting about that is through a completely different experience than you have. And so just because there's a mutual commonality doesn't mean you view that very thing in the same manner. However, through this texting and very service level conversation, you've now covered this. You can't really actually have a real conversation about it. And you're moved on to the next thing. There's also something to be said for just in-person chemistry. When I did eHarmony and match.com back in the day and I ran into that where I would message like long email messages back and forth where you learned so much. And then I'd be like, okay, let's meet for coffee. We meet for coffee. And I'm like, oh, I'm not attracted to you in person. Like there's something literally about the way a person talks, like your chemistry, your vibe, like the way a person smells. Not to know like, oh, this person smells bad. It's your pheromones mixing. But you, like so I got to the point where I was like, I will only message back and forth like twice. And then we have to go meet. But I would always have something to do after. So I'd be like, oh, I can meet for a drink before I go meet my friends for an hour. Or I can get coffee for an hour, but then I have a class or something so that there was a time limit. Even if we were having an awesome time, more anticipation for the next time you hang out because you have to cut it shorter. The way our minds work, it fills in the blanks for us. So what ends up happening is you're on this text chain back and forth. And now you're envisioning this person. You're building up this whole story in your head. They look like this, they smell like that. They love this food. So naturally they're like this. And you're jumping to these drastic conclusions that to Johnny's point are not going to live up to the hype when you actually meet in person. So don't allow yourself to fall into that trap. Say, hey, it's great. I'm happy that we're gonna be connecting, but I'm not good at this stuff. I'd rather just talk in person. I'd rather just talk on the phone even than go through the SMS. Now the second question here, again, pretty young, and I'm at a point in my life where I'd rather have more long-term relationships so I can grow with a person rather than just have a bunch of hookups. In the situation with the girl in the previous question, we talked, had a couple of dates, hooked up. Well, me and her had two different ideas of what was gonna happen. I thought it was gonna be something more. She thought it was just a hookup. What can I do to attract women who share the same mindset as me? Johnny's got a big sense. I'll give you more. I can't help it, I can't help it. As I'm reading the question, I just see your face like perking up. Yeah, well, obviously we don't know who this person is and we don't know what these dates were like, but we also, he also talked about how he was so nervous so it was awkward. Now, here's the thing. He mentioned about, we talked about everything over the text but then when we came into being present with each other, it was awfully difficult. And hey, kudos to you for putting it together to where you had an actual couple of dates and you hooked up with the girl. But guess what? You've lost her interest and you lost it rather quick. And reason being is because of everything that you put in this question tells us that it has all been surface level. And he even says, well, my friend said I'm attractive. Yes, and she must have thought so too if she went on a few dates and hooked up, but she got about what she was gonna get from you and she moved on. Yeah, and I was gonna say, as far as this question of what I can do to attract women who share the same mindset, I don't think it's necessarily that she didn't have the same mindset, but like you said, somewhere along the line, he lost interest. And also when you jumped to hooking up before you've kind of discussed what you're looking for, yeah, there's gonna be complications there because if you're going in thinking, oh, we're gonna start a relationship and she's like, oh, I'm still on the fence about him or I don't know what, I just wanna date around. Now you've brought sex or whatever else into it when you weren't actually vulnerable about what you want. Do you wanna know how to find people who are looking for the same thing you are? Put what you're looking for on your profile. And guess what? The girls are gonna read your profile. You may not be reading theirs, but they're reading yours. And don't jump into bed with them. Yeah. Don't jump into, I know this is like mind blowing to some in the audience, but literally don't sleep with her. If that's what you're looking for, if you're looking for a long-term relationship, then don't hook up, withhold. Say I'd like to get to know you a little bit better. Wow, this is old fashioned, I know we talked about this with Evan, but like that works if you're looking for a serious relationship. And he talked about it in working with women, coaching women, and he would tell women, don't put out, make him work for it. And then you will find you're not just getting guys who want hookups, you're actually getting real guys who care about you and want to get to know you on a deeper level before that level of intimacy. That was the episode with Evan Mark Kats, correct? Correct, yes. So understanding that like, yes, you made a couple mistakes here on the messaging. Let's clean that up. Let's understand that Facebook SMS cannot be how you're trying to connect with someone and get to a deeper level in that relationship. And then if you truly want a relationship with someone, no matter the age, value the relationship. And jumping to hookup is not valuing her as a person, it's valuing sex first. And of course, that's gonna give her the signal of, well, that's what he wants. So now you're saying, well, we ended up having different thoughts about what we wanted. Well, you gave a very clear signal of what you wanted, you wanted the hookup. All right, our last question today is from Alex. I seem to get caught up in meeting girls who are just getting out of a relationship or they have someone in their past resurface when I start talking to them. In their past as an air quotes. Yeah. And that's why we're giving a little chuckle. Most of the time we go on a few dates that go really well and last longer than they should. And then they start to slow play me away. I'm wondering what is going on? It's not that I'm anti-social, awkward or unconfident person, obviously listening to the show. You are not. I can speak and go out and have a great time. Most of the time I'm even the life of the party. I have a huge circle of friends and people have told me that I'm an attractive person. I'm wondering what, if anything you think is going on. I've had this happen to me more than a few times. So now I've lost confidence in being that social person over the years and then started to weigh heavily on myself happiness. Can anyone see how he spilled out his problems in the question? Yeah. Yeah. Should I go ahead and start it? Go ahead. Now, I am the life of the party. I have all the friends. Even my friends tell me I'm attractive. Well, yeah. And so does the women they've been out with. They find it your attractive. However, Mr. Being the life of the party and the center of attention, you're not making any real connections here because after clowning around, they're like, wow, you know, guess what? I'd like to go out with you again, but this guy from my past is sort of coming back in and I kind of feel for him in there and shaking her head. I bet you've heard this scenario or even I bet you played this scenario in your past. I literally have like, you know, this sounds like the guy you have fun with, but then when somewhat, you know, maybe they make you realize the deeper connection you had with someone else or whatever. Now sometimes also, oh, you know, someone resurfacing that could also be a brush off. You know, I have done that before as well going like, you know, actually things were not resolved in my last relationship. And so, you know, I'm gonna explore that. But also I'm sure sometimes it is genuine that they might be going back to someone else, someone else from their past comes back, but that's a big red flag that maybe you're not making deep connections with people and it's just about the fun and the party. And I will say the, you know, weighing heavy on your happiness and like that these dates like last longer than they should, which I'm not totally sure. That's interesting. I don't know exactly what that means, but like the weighing on your self happiness. So again, this is that external validation. Women saying that they are, you know, like they have fun with you and then they go back to a past relationship is weighing on your self happiness, but you know, that's relying on someone else to wanna be in a long-term relationship with you in order for you to feel good about yourself, in order for you to be happy. You can't expect this one thing in order to be happy because you're putting like Johnny was saying, all your eggs in that basket and if you don't get it, then it's just like, well now I can't be happy. I mean, this is the hamster wheel. This is a slippery slope and it sucks when you're giving needy signals and that neediness is now making you unattractive to people and you're trying harder to win their attraction back or new attraction back. You're only digging yourself a deeper hole and this neediness cycle can be hard to break. A couple of things that really jump out for me right out of the gate is, I'm the life of the party, huge circle of friends. In my experience, and I played that card, I thought that would be the ticket to me getting everything I wanted and what I actually got in the feedback from women was that I was intimidating because I made it clear that I had all these other options that I didn't take any time to single out what I actually liked about them and why I enjoyed their time. I rubbed it in their face that I had a big social calendar and look, I got my phone blowing up and oh yeah, I'm going to this party and for a lot of women, that is intimidating. It's like, well, I'm not gonna be able to compete with that. I don't wanna have to deal with him going out, talking to other women and always having these options. So number one, you need to start appreciating the women who are spending time with you and not talking so much about all the other fun stuff you have going on, thinking that that is gonna make you more attractive. That is key. The second thing here is, let's talk about that huge circle of friends, right? And let's get some real feedback from your friends. Say, hey, I'm having this issue. They know you better than two podcast hosts and a coach. Ask your friends, hey, what vibes am I putting off? What are you picking up on? And when I've done that in the past, I've gotten some very great feedback of like, yeah, you came on pretty strong. I could see her pulling away from you and you just kind of kept going. Whoa, wow, I didn't know that signal. So let's rely on that circle that you've built with your friends and say, hey, you know, I've had this problem. What do you think's going on here? And articulate, you know, I really found this girl to be attractive. They may say, oh man, you didn't even stand next to her. You were talking to everyone else. It was clear she wanted your attention. You ignored her. Like those are the things that I think are happening that are leading women to have that initial burst of, oh, this guy's attractive. I wanna be with him. And then be like, that's second, third date. I'm not as interested. Well, here's the question for both of you. I wanna hear what your thoughts are. What do you guess he means by saying these dates lasted longer than they should have? Because I've never used that. I would never put anything in that way. So what do you think he's trying to say there? I wanna hear what your thoughts are because I have my idea. Well, obviously I think you would have spelled out that there was something physical. So the fact that you didn't spell out something physical means they spent a lot of time talking and by they I'm mostly guessing him about himself and they were happy to hear the stories and smile and say, oh, this is a comfortable car. I'm enjoying the ride. Yeah, this is great. I live here. And then get out of the car, excuse themselves, have a great night and then not answer the text. So in my mind, it's again, a signal of you're putting it all on the table. You're putting all this pressure on them and naturally it's just too much. It's just like, cut a date short, leave on the high note, leave people wanting more. Have some mystery about you. Oh, I don't know who he's hanging out with. I don't know that he has all these friends. I wanna unpack this. I wanna unravel this, get to know who this person is. Well, yeah, I certainly would never phrase a date that went well in that manner. So obviously it didn't go well. It's like it lasted longer than it should. So that means it probably got awkward. Why did it get awkward? Because you were supposed to have made a connection or the next piece was supposed to happen. The next, the step and it didn't. And because it didn't happen, two people now are looking at each other going and we're just now passing time to pass time. And if the girls are still interested, they're like, where's the intent? Where's the seriousness? Where's the next step? We've gotten all the way here. I'm waiting for you to make the next move and... You didn't. And this happened to me. I'm smiling because this exact lesson happened to me. I was backpacking with a buddy. We were in Italy and we were staying at this hostel. It was this beautiful villa that they converted into a hostel and we were sharing a room with a bunch of other people. And this Italian girl and I went on a long walk and we walked and we talked and we walked and we talked and she was just giving me all these signals. So like, please freaking kiss me. Please. And the whole time in the back of my mind, I'm just like, logistically, there's a bunch of people in the room. I don't know where my buddy I'm backpacking with. So like, I missed all those signals. Come back five hours later, my buddy's like, oh man, you had a great time. I was like, yeah, it lasted a lot longer than... Oh, wait. Yeah. She was giving me every opportunity, but I didn't take that next step. Yeah. The minute you read that, I was like, oh, yeah. So now it's time for you to take action. As always, we have a challenge for you this week. Erin, what is the challenge for our listeners? I would like the listeners to write five cards or letters like with their hands and a pen and like a nice card that you picked out or just on nice stationery, you send a letter to five people, telling them what they mean to you in a deeper way. I just did this last week and it feels so nice to share. And I got choked up writing some of the letters. You know, sometimes you don't tell the people closest to you how you really feel and imagine one day just going to the mailbox and having this letter from someone that you have a close relationship with tell you the things that they appreciate about you, how wonderful that would be. So like, you know, it feels so good to send that out in the world and you gotta put a stamp on it and like physically put it in a mailbox. So yeah, you know, if we're talking about making those deeper connections, this is a way to really connect with someone and give some value. So Johnny in my letter got caught up in the mail. It must have gotten. Yeah, I have to check the mailbox when I get home. Let us know. We're always excited to hear from you. As always, you could send your questions for us to answer at the end of next month by heading on over to theartofcharm.com slash questions. You can also email us at questions at theartofcharm.com or find us on social media at theartofcharm Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. Erin, I know you recently launched a podcast. Yes, wildly successful podcast about the Bachelor of the World. Final Rose material. So if you like watching the Bachelor, Bachelor at Bachelor in Paradise is next. Or you just like Erin. Or you just like me. Yeah, it's funny. I always have a funny guest on. So it's me and someone else. So it's even if you just like to laugh. So check out Erin's show. As always, could you do us a huge favor and give us a review on our show here on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd really appreciate that rating. The Art of the Arm Podcast is produced by Chris Olin and Michael Harold and engineered by Danny Looper and Bradley Denham at Cast Media Studios and Sunny downtown Hollywood. I'm AJ. And I'm Johnny. See you next week.