 So today we're gonna bring in a guest who I've only really Recently discovered maybe in the last I don't know four or five months or so his name is yarn Brooke He's the chairman of the board at the end of the iron ran Institute. I owe you. It's funny. Yeah, and I always say Right, I mean, you know, but it's it's I got your name right. I think and I ran right, right? It's it is your okay Right, I'm like, I'm a huge youtuber. Okay, I jump around you might say I waste time, but I don't really consider it wasting time because Sometimes you discover somebody and in this case I discovered yarn who you've done so many interviews I mean you talk about all kinds of different things, but there is one central theme I think and certainly at one central person to do the things that you address and It's the 20th century philosopher. I guess we'll call her writer philosopher. I ran who was a More or less a refugee from the Soviet Union in the early part of last century enormously influential writer thinker Etc. And the more I hear you yarn talk about her and apply her thoughts philosophy approach To current events the more I wanted to talk to you and say man Good every single time But you know when I'm talking about sports this stuff just has a way of popping up and it's tough to describe It's like it's not like I can say oh well This is iron ran and this is sport like this is where the intersection is it's it's not as clear as that but I just wanted to welcome you in and maybe quickly give us like a 20 to 30 second I Don't know nutshell version of what iron rands Approach philosophy is can we do that? Is that possible? We can try probably not 30 to 40 seconds, but we can try you know reality is what it is It doesn't bend to your wishes. It doesn't be it's not determined by some other consciousness It just is and you have the tool to know it your reason. You don't know the world through emotion You don't know the world through a revelation It's the work of reasoning through of identifying integrating The the evidence of your senses only individuals can reason just like groups can't eat other people can't eat for you Other people can't think for you. You're responsible for your own thinking for your own ideas for your own values and Your purpose in life should be your own happiness. You shouldn't live for other people. You shouldn't expect other people to live for you You should live for yourself interacting with other people in win-win relationships win-win relationships spiritually win-win relationships materially as a trader and then the political system There's more than most appropriate for a life of a rational being pursuing his own happiness is a political system of freedom political system of Where the government protects individual rights and that's its sole purpose and that is that is the essence of capitalism so Antisocialism anti any form of statism pro individual rights pro capitalism, right? So It's you know, there's so many issues in sports that come up that have kind of this overarching theme I mean just as an example. I'm reading this week that there's this controversy in the NFL where The players don't want to partake in these off-season Workouts for you know fear of maybe catching COVID they want to minimize that risk, right and they're you know Just I keep hearing this word pop up solidarity in the name of solidarity We the teams are not going to you know for taking this and it almost frames the coaches and the Organizations as being tyrannical in some way so it's there's a lot of like us versus them We're right. They're wrong that kind of thing that pops up, you know in college football or college athletics Should we pay players that that or is the NCAA evil that that kind of stuff? And it's there's one key thing that you pointed to when you were describing that you're in self-interest Right self-interest not living for others. I think when people hear that they hear Selfish right like be selfish push everybody else out of the way acting morally be Bernie Madoff, right type thing whereas My understanding is the more you Act in your own self-interest and pursue your own goals Diligently the better you're going to be for everybody else around you. Does that make sense? Well, maybe not everybody else, right? I'm not gonna commit to that, but to the people the matter sure So I ran redefines the term selfish or she resurrects its original definition Which is really taking care of self Taking care of self does not evolve line-treating stealing and treating people other people really really badly That always boomerangs back at you It basically is you know a person who does that has no integrity is is is dishonest it's not using his mind to pursue his own values and You know, it's not gonna be happy look at Bernie Madoff land up in jail just died age 82 miserable I was always being miserable was actually more miserable when he was rich Then he isn't jail because when he was rich he was lying to everybody. He had no friends He couldn't look his family in the eye couldn't have any kind of relationships So no the idea of self-interest is the idea of How do you build the best life you can build for yourself? And that involves creating when that involves first of all committing to living a good life for yourself It means investing in it thinking about it. There's only time to it. How many people sit down and say How am I gonna make my life the best it can be right? I'm gonna live like 80 years I want them to be every moment. I wanted to count for something. I wanted to really really mean something And I want to have fun doing it. I want to enjoy it I want to I want to really be happy at the end of the day, right? How many people do that almost nobody does it and in that sense almost nobody is selfish almost nobody's taking care of themselves and Then with regards to other people the way to think about that is you want to treat them with justice People who are bad you don't want to have anything to do with them And sometimes you want to actually penalize them because they're bad people you want to distance them from yourself You don't want it to have the bad influence on you people who are good You want to bring closer to you and you want to trade with people? You want to create these win-win relationships as many win-win relationships as possible now It's interesting because we're talking sports right in his sports. It's win-lose, but yeah, there's a sense in which for example accepting the rules of the game Living up to the rules of the game having integrity around the rules of the game is win-win, right? Even if you lose the game because you stuck to the rules Because you're you're sustaining a game that is important your livelihood is important your happiness is important your values So you don't cheat to win even though winning is important because more fundamental than that is your integrity and more fundamental than that is The value the game provides your life Right. So just as an example of that I think think of steroids in baseball, right? It was the big, you know late 90s mid 2000s Oh, we're all watching baseball McGuire everything and it seemed like it was great and then all of a sudden We found out all these guys were doing it and then the game not that it ruined the game But it kind of it's never gotten back to where it was Therefore kind of like you're saying they're cheating the game did not do the game any good long term It did it, you know, I think that's right There's a whole discussion we had about whether the game should exclude steroids or not What the rules should be once the rules are set Sheating on those rules is a is undermining of the game itself and therefore undermining of your These people care about the Hall of Fame. They care about their place in history. They care about records They care about being winners as individuals and it undermines it It puts what they call an asterisk next to their name and and so was it worth it? For for many of them it wasn't and for the game it was so how do we define? Integrity or I guess how would Rand define integrity in that kind of context because you say, you know good bad I mean Objectivism good bad, you know, it's not in here. It exists out there. How do we Objectivism is not in here, but it exists everything everything to be objective is in a sense an interaction between what's out there and Your evaluation of it good and bad are human Assignments, right? They don't exist out there Independent of human consciousness, right good or bad for whom in what context? When is killing somebody good or bad? Well, what's everybody say that if it's in self-defense? Oh, then it might be good, right? So the context matters so it always matters In what context is a particular action happening integrity means sticking to your moral values Those moral values that are pro your life, right? So sticking to pro life moral values that's integrity and To the extent that honesty is a crucial. I think pro life more moral value that line Undermines you undermines your life undermines your integrity undermines your future Lying is is is goes against integrity. It's it's if you lie you're undermining your own Values your own life. I mean look at to bring it back to sports. Look at where the cyclist remind me is Oh, uh, Lance Armstrong Lance Armstrong. He lied. He lied. He lied. They're like when he was caught finally And you're always caught on big lies. You're always caught. I mean, he's miserable now He's lost everything. He they've taken away all his sort of fonts winnings He's gonna be viewed as a as a bad guy in history a bad guy in sports He's a nobody and and and he is from a self-esteem perspective. He's he's he's being crushed Was it worth the lie? Of course not even though he got those highs. It's like taking drugs I mean, you might get the high when you take the drug. Is it worth it? You know almost never right always not worth it Do you think that and this is a this is about as large a question as you could possibly ask About sports, but you know from the from a young age when it when a child First gets interested in sports and let's say that they have, you know, just a great proclivity They're they've got their physical potential, etc And you know, maybe the parents recognize, okay, I think sports are for my son or my daughter Do you think that the lessons that a kid is going to learn along the way Teach that kid or our our kids Integrity or do you think that It depends. It really depends on the coaches depends on the parents. I mean so many parents are Win at all costs Even at a cost of your own integrity don't think long term. It's just a matter of winning right now They can learn a very wrong lesson same with coaches. There's some bad coaches out there who Who instill the wrong kind of values in the wrong kind of sense of integrity? I think sports like any Anything that a child does That if devotes huge amount of energy to huge amount of focus to and achieves real achievements in You know Kids can learn a lot from that experience and can learn real values from it if it's coached in a right perspective But it could also be it can also teach them about the wrong things if the coaches and the parents You know sense bad people and you know teaching bad things I just want to recommend a couple of things here real quick I'm rand I mean she's she's an author and and evidently when she moved As a she did she move as a child from the soviet union when she adult? No, she was in her 20s. She was in her 20s Okay, because she went to hollywood right because she wanted to become a A script writer for for films, right? But she ended up well obviously authoring her own stuff and just two books If you're interested In some of her work, would you recommend atlas shrugged and or the fountain head? I would recommend both that would recommend starting with the fountain head for most people And then reading out shrugged if you really into politics Yeah, the world then I would start with atlas shrug But I'd say for most people start with the fountain Okay, and the and these by the way are there are stories. It's not you know, sometimes you pick up a book by you know Nietzsche or a conter something Yeah, these are novels exactly right the fun reads. I think the found head is the american novel I think it's some of the more, you know, it's a it's a classic american novel. Everybody should read the fountain head Uh, you know it was made into a movie gary koopa patrice and nil o nil Uh, we're in it, but I would recommend reading the book before you see the movie Uh, so No, absolutely. These are thrilling exciting interesting stories. Even if you land up on agreeing with a philosophy You know, I know a lot of people Violently agree with iron rance philosophy disagree. Sorry disagree with iron rance philosophy. I love the fountain Love the novel because of the heroes in it because of the the characters in it Um, and I think for sports fans I think iron rand has a as a unique appeal not because she deals with sports But there's something about sports that's unique It's one of the last Refuge refugees, you know in our world Where there are winners and losers in a sense Not really but in a sense, they're good guys and bad guys, right? They're your guys and sure and your and You know success is awarded And and failure is is not Uh, not everybody gets a ribbon, right? Uh in at least in professional theoretically Right to country in professional sports. You do not all get a ribbon So iron rands world is very much that kind of world It's a world of good guys and bad guys. It's a world of heroes It's a world of of people who you know people who step out to play ninth inning You know to out uh and and hit home runs to win the game that that's the kind of world she has Those are the kind of heroes she portrays, you know, what's interesting about that is that You know up here in washington, we have gonzaga, right the team that just lost in the uh, the ncaa Men's basketball tournament in the final now there a team they went undefeated the whole year Right up until that last game and we're beating pretty soundly by by a good baler team And you know, it's it's funny yarn I'm on twitter a lot. Okay. I don't know how much time you spend there, but I see a lot of reaction To certain things and you can almost see patterns at times and one thing that I saw with gonzaga or from gonzaga fans was Well, you can't criticize gonzaga for that loss because they had a great season. I feel like more and more I hear people Even though your team lost or did something wrong or this or that try to spin it like Yeah, we lost but it's not so bad because of blah blah blah blah blah It's almost like they're they're not willing to accept the loss for what it is For I see that as problematic Does how would you interpret that? That's probably always been that case I mean people don't want to completely face the fact that the lost I mean, what did the red sox invent a curse? Yeah In fact, if I you know 80 years 90 years or whatever they they couldn't win a world series So people try to try to find excuses try to find justification for the fact that they've lost But yeah, I think in in in our modern day, which is dominated by kind of egalitarian philosophy and egalitarian view of the world There's much there's more and more Don't emphasize the winners. Yeah, everybody's equal. Everybody's the same but he gets a ribbon I think it's interesting because if a good zaga had won They would have celebrated like like crazy, right the win But it's it's what you lose you bring out that more egalitarian perspective, right? In an effort to kind of ease the pain of actually having having lost So that pain of having lost though Isn't there value in that you mentioned the red sox, right? I mean for the first 25 years of my life I was a red sox fan who gradually started believing in curses as it went like 86 and then you know 99 2003 like the whole thing and then the whole history of it like you get indoctrinated into that when you're when you're from new england, but You can say the same thing for cub fans. I guess the pain that you experience has value because it it adds To the joy or actually it creates the joy in some way that you experience when you finally win So isn't so is minimizing pain a good thing? well, remember This is a Fun part of life an important point, you know an important part of life sport is it's not crucial though, right? It's not real pain not not and it shouldn't be right if it is You know, you should you should you should check your life consult a therapist. Yeah This is a it's a game and and and To some extent we're fans of a particular team For random reasons right because we were born in a particular area because we lived in a particular time of our lives at a particular place I became a red sox fan because I happen to live between the ages of 14 or 16 happened to live in boston and and those Periods in which you you know, there's a big influence all the music Uh that I you know popular music. I love it's from that period of time, right? What what period of time is that by the way? This would be the the the mid 70s. This would be colton's fisk's Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah game winning You know Right the world series against insinuity reds and then bucky dent a few years later the pain of that, right? Yeah, I wasn't there with bucky dent. I wasn't in boston when that happened But but that was you know colton fisk was 75 so Fred lin You know was in alefield jim rice, uh, I think colby's trim she was still he was there. Yeah So it was a great team of of really legends and I can still remember. I don't remember anything else But when I was you know when it was 14 But I remember the almost the entire lineup of the boston red sox from that season which is insane, right? So these things these things kind of stick with you in a way But on the other hand, it's not It's not existentially a threat to me if the red sox lose and as a consequence the pain should only go So far down. It's not like a loved one dying It's not it's not like something really horrific happening in your life. So, you know and fans where it becomes that You know, it is I think it is it does become a problem It it it starts to dominate their life and obsess their life and they can't pursue other values Which is a real threat to their happiness. That's true now Having worked in sport stock radio for 15 years. Okay, what I've found is that people People take sports conversations And they use those as fronts to fight other battles like moral battles Like I I can't tell you how many times I've heard In the owner versus player like union versus owners Uh debates when when labor issues come up. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say I always side with millionaire players over billionaire owners I've heard that so many like people make up their mind ahead of time As to who they're gonna side with regardless of the issue just based on the fact that what one side has earned more or Whatever, I mean, it's it's it's if you brought up with the certain marxist philosophy, right? Then you always decide with the workers versus the owners Uh, you know, whoever makes more money is more evil That that's just part of the philosophy In capitalist america Many people are raised with the opposite attitude. Yo, you know instead of Siding on the issue, right? And and figuring out what you really think about the particular issue They have preconceived notions based on their kind of philosophies and based on on how they were raised and and their perspective on the world Why is that? I mean, I have my own ideas about this, but why is that? unhealthy or wrong well, you know It's always unhealthy not to look at the facts and not to look at the actual evidence and to You know compress everything into kind of a set format that you already have Um Let's say I you know, I love capitalist. I love people who billionaires. I love billionaires. I think they're great We had a lot of value for me, you know, I think they're I think they're wonderful human beings, right? That goes against the grain. I know but you know some billionaires are scumbags Right, Dave just talk So I don't say all billionaires are good guys because I because I I appreciate what it takes to become a billionaire And and I admire that in people I want to value it each if I if it comes to that and issue of justice I want to value and and just because I think I don't know Some billionaire is basically a good guy because they've been productive and they produced and they've created and they've traded and they've made the world a better place I think That doesn't mean every decision they make is the right decision. Right doesn't mean every decision I make I mean, they're not gods. Nobody's a god and the same is true in terms of workers some some, uh, you know, sometimes workers are, uh, um Right in their complaints against employers and sometimes they're wrong So, uh, you've got to be able to look at issue by issue evaluate the facts Evaluate the conditions the context again and and and figure out who's right and who's wrong Why do you think that I mean, I first of all, I totally agree with you. I mean, if you're debating Something anything in order to communicate We at least need to be able to agree on the facts. Otherwise any conversation thereafter. I think as a non-starter, but Why do you think people tend to Decide ahead of time who they're going to side with before they even know what the issue is like Why is why is there a tendency in humans to even do that? Because they don't want to think for themselves because being tribal Associating you see this in politics all the time. So it doesn't surprise me that it's it's it's filtered. It filters into sports and into heavy aspect of life Reason thinking is work It requires effort And one has to be convinced it's worthwhile And we live in a culture that doesn't view thinking as that worthwhile. Yeah, you have to do it sometimes But um and and a lot of we're taught we teach our we teach kids You know, who are you to have an opinion about that? An opinion. I mean we respect their feelings their emotions. We're very good at that We don't respect their minds. We don't emphasize the mind. We don't teach critical thinking in our schools We don't emphasize That just the work and the effort and the importance of being rational, right? That's not a value Almost in anybody out there, right? Unless you go unless it's work it work. You have to be yeah You have to be a fact and stuff but outside of work in our lives We don't value rationality now if if we don't value rationality if we're taught that our minds, you know Everybody has his own point of view. It's all subjective. Nobody knows the truth all of that garbage Then how do I trust what I think? So maybe I shouldn't go through the effort Maybe it's not worth it. Maybe I should just listen to Joe A listener, you know my little tribe or my friends or you know, if I'm a republican I listen to republicans from democrat I listen to republic Democrats if I'm a sports fan of this inclination, it's just easier than to always It's a shortcut, right? What does Joe think or what a workers want or I hate the owners or I just simple rules Make life easier, but they also screw you up. So be aware of them, right? You you want to always do the thinking I think that there's a safety In that right when when you can a laziness and safety Yeah, because when you want to I when you tend to identify with somebody else when you identify that guy And you say oh, he's like me or he thinks like me And then you say he what part of what group is he in? Oh, he's that one therefore So now you don't feel like you're alone. Do you think that there's an element of um I guess objectivism or even critical just critical thinking itself Which makes Which may make one feel alone Yeah, a little bit. I mean, but but we are alone. So I mean, it's it's good for us to feel alone, right? The end of the day, you're born alone. You die alone. I mean you you could you can talk about family all all you want But at the end of the day only you can feel what you feel only you can think what you think You are in in some fundamental metaphysical sense alone And then you choose to interact but but that means what that means is not You shouldn't fear being alone You shouldn't feel lonely What what it what it should really mean the sense that only you can think for yourself only you can have values for you only you can feel Is the importance of doing it that is the importance of embracing you as an individual Embracing your choices your values your thinking and investing in it. Look I say this often and it's a cliche, but it's a true cliche. You only live once Every second that you live you'll never get back Life is amazing It's fun. It's it's it's exciting or it can be right And what a waste if you waste your time doing something you hate Or or or just following stupid people or or or getting engaged in In kind of a tribal mentality where what you believe is not yours It's not you're not committed to it. It's not consistent with your values You know It's life's too short to be miserable, right life's too short And you're gonna be miserable sometimes look bad stuff happens So but but don't bring it upon yourself. Don't think do things that that Bring misery to you and I think the tribalist mentality is a miserable mentality. Yeah Anything you don't own your values. You don't own your thoughts Right. You just tend to follow. I mean follow. Yeah, I mean chasing Chasing the ghosts of misery where they are not right identifying. Oh, that's you know, this guy's doing that and this when when he's not, right? I just think Yeah, good And and that's about also having a healthy attitude towards sports. Yeah, you're gonna be bummed when your team loses But it can't be the end of the world. I mean, that's it can be your life Right. So and and I know too many sports fans who are obsessed. This is it and and it's not You know and we like well you didn't play right? I mean, there's a sense. I love fans fandom is the value I think Embracing their mentality and really cheering for your team and really getting exciting and having ups and downs with the team As long as it is healthy in a sense that it is not You know Causing you to be miserable in your life, right? Right. I think so, you know more and more Maybe young people are choosing who they root for in sports Because of the player and less having to do with the team right because you know When you were growing up or maybe even when I was growing up like like 80s 90s You saw the team that was around you right that was broadcast and now you can just see anybody you want and I feel like More because now athletes are they have an opportunity a platform to be more vocal about the things that they believe So that's a bad thing. I think my guess is probably started in the 90s with michael jordan, right? Who wasn't a michael jordan fan and therefore people all over the world Literally all over the world became chicago Right, there became chicago fans Because of michael jordan. He was the first I mean bird and and and um and magic was celebrities, but he was the first Global celebrity certainly in basketball and of course baseball and football in team sports because you would have had ali before that But you're already in team sports. Yeah And and global right and so I can I see that and I understand I for example I don't have a team in football but if the and and You know, I'm I'm a little troubled by football generally these days, but um In the past I've loved teams that had great caught up quarterbacks because you know, I love that position I love what it means. I love the leadership. I love kind of the Great quarterbacks of thinking quarterbacks are smart and and you can see that in the way they play So, you know, Joe Montana was the first guy who I really loved as a quarterback because he he didn't have the physical Abilities of a great quarterback, but he had the brains above and beyond right and he had the The the the emotion right? He had the ability to control himself and to rise to the challenge at the right moment um So I I'm not surprised that people gravitate as we become globalized as we can follow any team Towards particular players and I don't think that's a bad thing or so What if they do it though because they have an agenda? Okay, and I'm actually gonna I'm gonna roll the clock back about five years The Super Bowl in j or in February of 2016 was Denver against Carolina. Okay, and leading up to that Super Bowl there was a lot of Cam Newton's gonna win this and if he wins, it's gonna mean it's gonna be a victory for Our group meaning, you know race or whatever it is Okay I mean, I I didn't agree with that but let's just say you think that okay, and then When he lost the game Immediately in the press conference right after the game. I don't know if you remember this He sat there and he sulked and he pouted and he really didn't answer any questions and then he just you know stormed off and that As I saw it really ended up letting down a lot of people that were kind of behind him because of what they thought He represented And yeah, it's a mistake It's a mistake to to use sports as a as a as an avenue for politics and And for larger social agendas sports of sports Enjoy it for what it is and don't attribute and and look part of why we like certain Athletes I think part of Jordan's appeal part of bird's appeal and magic's appeal and and I think and the Montana's appeal Is how they handle themselves, right? And that's important. So put aside the politics put aside everything else They you know, they knew how to lose They didn't lose very often but when they lost they lost they didn't pout they didn't complain. They you know and and players to do You know have a different legacy Then but I think it's really dangerous to lump Sports into politics and make sports about politics, which we're seeing now Everyone right now every day. Yeah black grabs matter, you know during the Orlando thing In the in the in basketball They're taking a knee thing and you know my attitude is if a particular athlete wants to express a political statement Great, you know fine Owners have to decide how they want to deal with that and that's their decision You might not want to have an athlete on your side who has particular political views I don't think that's I'm all for discriminating against people with particular political views and it could go either way right but It shouldn't be a national issue. It shouldn't be the president of the united states shouldn't be commenting on it, you know It's it's sports and and these athletes You know, it's like the whole celebrity culture we live in today Who cares what? um I don't know. I'm just gonna pick up somebody Kanye West thinks about anything right rapper who cares about who cares what what um uh, Harrison Ford thinks about a Well Clint Eastwood for that matter right their actors They you know, I want them to be on screen do their job and go home And if they want to make comments about politics, they certainly have a right that free speech I don't I you know, are they particularly intelligent when it comes to politics They know more than the average job about politics in 99 percent of the case is no So let's stop taking them seriously when LeBron James comments on politics. I think the attitude should be All right, so it's LeBron James. Who cares right it but it but it's unfortunately it's not they're taken as experts They're taking us somebody we we should pay attention to and follow right right and whether we whether we think they're experts or not I think Maybe people who are my age and young, you know, maybe every maybe it's not even an age thing I think that people have a really difficult time separating the two right separating the fact that um That LeBron James is an athlete from what he says or Colin Kaepernick for that matter I mean the guy was kneeling on the cover of time magazine like people are not really willing To look at what people say and just put that aside It's if you say yeah, good He's nearly on the cover of time magazine because time magazine chose to make a big issue out of the fact that a Sports figure was kneeling if we add a healthier attitude towards sports figures, maybe it wouldn't have made time magazine You know and and my view of LeBron James's political views is he's wrong but Okay, lots of people are wrong like I think 95 percent of americans are wrong on almost every issue in politics Almost every issue. I disagree with 90. I'm not a republican. I'm not a democrat I think they're all Approximately houses because I think they're all wrong. So But that doesn't mean I don't trade with them. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate when they do good work I mean most of silicon valley. I disagree with politically. Do I stop using my iphone because of that? Do I If silicon valley takes a knee tomorrow Do I throw my iphone into the trash and and pick up what samsung? What do I know what samson's exactly user? It's absurd and why? I mean, yeah, if they were if they were, you know, really horrific right if they were Communist or nazis then I'd stop dealing with them But main most of these political views are within the mainstream LeBron James doesn't say anything that about 40 percent of americans don't agree with Does that mean I'm not going to deal with those 40 percent of americans? No, it's not So we need on both sides to take a step back breathe a little bit And you know, you have your political views. I have mine the way to the way to engage with them It's the debate it's the use reason and it's not to get all huffy and puffy because some Basketball player said something he's a basketball player. Why would you expect a basketball player to know better than 40 percent of americans? Right. I mean, it's one thing when a when an athlete Or a coach or whoever just you know off the cuff says something or tweets one thing I do think it's a little bit different when I mean when you say the name collin cappernick to anybody who knows who he is You're going to think one thing first. You're not going to think of him really as an athlete You're going to think of him as the guy who kneels. That's what that's what he's uh known for but you mentioned communism nazi is One thing that I thought was interesting about the cappernick thing was, you know, he he knelt Ostensibly because he was against oppression But he thinks he thinks there's systemic racism But But when he did it when he did it or when he Explained himself at one point. He was wearing a t-shirt that actually had castro's face on it And I was thinking to myself like, you know A why does nobody comment on that and b Why does communism not have not get the same rap that naziism does like why is one looked at as Maybe it's like being fair and humane and the other is looked at as what it should be which is reprehensible When they're basically the same thing That's a huge question. They they're all basically the same thing and and it's the reason for that is The communism is viewed as being basically based on a moral idea an ethical idea that is true that that Suffering is a claim as I'm all claim against those who were not suffering That that need is a claim. We don't believe to take everything from those with ability to give it to those with need But what is the whole welfare state that republicans and democrats all agree on if not Taking from some to give to others based on what based on need and nothing else I would say and I know this will piss off many of you views The communism is basically secularization of christianity. It's not out of the mainstream It's indeed an embracing of the mainstream morally Morally And then taking it to fall all the way take it all the way in terms of the meek shall inherit earth Great. Let's give everything to the meek and and treat everybody else You know as as basically the slaves, which is what communism does it's So people often say even even conservatives often say Kindness is a great idea. It's just bad in practice And my view is no no no Communism's evil is an idea Evil in practice And that's what happens evil ideas lead to evil practices evil practices are based on evil ideas the tour connected You have to reject communism ideologically. You have to reject the morality of communism See nazis it's nazism is easy to reject You know not just because they killed a lot of people because the communists killed even more people than the nazis Because because it's based on race and we've internalized this idea You know a true idea that race is abhorrent But so is this so is treating everybody the same So is stealing and taking stuff from redistribution of wealth, which is basically legalized stealing So all these things which communism is based on and indeed communism is is responsible for the death of more people than Fascism and nazism So these are moral ideas that need to be challenged. And yes, I see it all the time communists are treated with kick gloves right I don't treat them that way. I treat them as the as the murderous villains that they really are And and cap and egg should have been criticized for when that should Taking a knee. Okay. We could disagree about that one. But but having a Fido Castro should when you know what Fido Castro did see his people the number of people he mooted And the fact that he has enslaved the Cuban people now for what 50 years They've been under the boot of communism and and have been being institutionalized into poverty and that's how horrific Right, which is why when I hear an athlete commenting on something that you know has happened, whether it's A police involved shooting or or a law the voting law in Georgia, right? I mean, they just moved the the major league baseball all-star game out of Georgia to I forget where they moved it um because of that voting law it's like I mean like the second you start you start Managing your business In accordance Or as a reaction To something like that which you may or may not even understand I mean prove to me first that you even understand the issue I mean clearly Kaepernick does not understand the issue that he's protesting if you're gonna if you're gonna make a statement You need to you need to me to prove that you have a grasp and command over the topic First before I'm gonna take you seriously But are you willing that's true, but are you willing to hold everybody to that stand? Yes Well, then yeah, absolutely and indeed the real question to ask you is How come everything has become politicized? How come everything now is about politics everything is now about politics from education to sports teams To where we're gonna have them at this the all-star game Every aspect of our life has now become a political issue That to me is the real question and the real issue And I think the answer to that is the growth of government government is so powerful to me It's involved in everything. It's involved in every aspect of our lives. And as a consequence We need to care about politics because they're everywhere these politicians are The only way to deal with that is not to go after mlb or coca-cola or whatever It's to get politicians off our backs. See coca-cola is saying look Democrats have the house the senate and the presidency If I Oppose what they want me to do they could regulate me they could they could do all create all these problems for me What do I need the headache for well probably can you know have screwed it up? They're probably out of power for a while. I can afford to piss them off a little bit Let me start with the democrats, right? So so they started with democrats unnecessarily because they believe it But because they do the power calculation and they figure this is the best bet right now Imagine the politicians didn't have any power over business imagine if politicians Won't evolve in regulating our lives regulating our businesses Then what power would they have over mlb or what power imagine if we did away with antitrust laws? They just didn't exist And and the politicians couldn't threaten the mlb with yanking the antitrust exemption You know You wouldn't have politics in in sports You know I don't I don't know if I disagree with that so much as I think that there's another element to it Which is that an organization like major league baseball, for example is more concerned With its own image And the backlash they may get if they say we're to keep the all-star game In georgia, so it's kind of it's like a it's a cover my ass thing as a result of Politics having run a muck and being used by a certain group For let's let's say what say for what it is being used for power Right. I'm the I'm the victim You're the oppressor so you better satisfy my needs at every turn if you if you Don't I'm going to call you out and you're going to look like an asshole Absolutely and but that is a consequence of of giving government the amount of power that it does that it has The government fuels that and then and then having and having everything politicized so that it plays into that But it's also a consequence of the fact that we have an elite an intellectual elite primarily That's of one voice and and of one attitude and so so it's rare that companies leave a state because Because democrats have done something crazy No, I'll take that back. That's absolutely not rare. That's often the case. Look at california, right? Why is auricle leaving california? Because the democrats have gone nuts in california and they're doing stuff that hurts auricle Huts all businesses. They're leaving so people leave states all the time because of the politics um It's usually on the right, you know companies leave Because the economic conditions become harmful, but you know auricle would survive even if they stayed in california It's a statement. Why did a lawn musk build this factory in texas versus in california? It's a it's a political statement to some extent and we celebrate that because it's a political statement. We like But if the other side commits a political statement like moving mlb to a different place, we don't like it So again, I think there's more tribalism than anything in this. I don't really care where the mlb wants to play its baseball game um You know and and I don't really care where lawn musk wants to build his teslas What I care about is the fact Two things one is that everything's politicized. I think that's horrible and second That the intellectual elites tend to be of one voice But in terms of companies making decisions about these things As long as they're not communists or fascists, you know, let them make decisions We're gonna disagree right just on I mean, I don't care where they play I was a shalehold that would be pissed off, right? Sure. I'm maximizing my wealth because that should be the only concern Right, and I don't I don't care where they play the all-star game. I don't even I maybe I need to think about this but like say the there's the um The the national anthem before any sporting event, right mark cuban Tried to do away with the national anthem at his home stadium and the nba. I think he they may still be figuring that out I'm not sure but when your solution is to Do away With something as a solution, right? Okay. Well the anthems controversial. Just do away with it Okay, well, you know, georgia has this voting law controversy. Just do away. Just keep, you know, keep it out of there Do away with this do away with that when you're when we do them away with things I just feel like good that we do away with some things What the thing is I'd say Sure. I mean a lot of us can be upset about it. A lot of us can be unhappy about it We shouldn't make it illegal Because it's their property. They if they don't want to play the national anthem They don't have to but we should be willing as fans to say, you know, what if you're not gonna play the national anthem We're not coming You can have an empty stadium Make them pay for it economically. You see that to me Is the way we deal with one another we deal with life. I don't like what you're doing I don't have to deal with you. I can turn around and go somewhere else If I don't like how you're managing the baseball team, then I'm a fan up I can stop coming to games stop supporting you financially if I don't like That you're not playing the national anthem I just don't go with the games anymore. And if enough people do that, you'll change your mind, right? So use the economic power that you have as a fan To influence and and maybe that's a place where you rally other people you get together you say we're boycotting games I think that's great when that happens And I think it's great when that happens even if it goes against what I think right because I think that's the right way to behave versus We're gonna get politicians to put pressure on you To force you to do this or we're gonna pass a law Or we're gonna get the president of the united states to say, you know, you can't do this or whatever. No Keep politics out of it as owners fans athletes Let's Through the volunteer exchange relationships that we all have The colonic the colon cap and it break his contract by kneeling. Maybe I don't know You fire him just fire him. You broke up contracts contract law, right? Just a bind by the car and if he didn't maybe in future contracts, you should have If you want to play on my team, you have to stand for the national anthem or not You want to write into the contract and then we're sports fans will decide Do we want to go to your always supported or not? Yeah And and and make it voluntary. So that that's my view if people don't like the decision among be what made Don't go to the all-star game And and and make a statement that way and stop watching baseball don't go to any games until they until they change the politicization but to to make it more political by by I don't know Ted Cruz and and and lee and and uh Josh Hawley wanting to pass a law that penalizes mlb now you won't problem Unbelievable can of worms where every time a business does something that I politically don't like I run to my congressman They pass a law to fix it. I mean that's nuts, right and that denies the business The rights the property right to make choices that people don't like and the way to deal with those choices Is the boycott them if you don't like the choices Yeah, and I feel like we're just getting warmed up 52 minutes into this I could talk to you for another four hours, which i'm sure you wouldn't want to do But this I mean really happy to do it. No, I love talking about this stuff and I actually love sports I think sports are amazing And it's it's a topic I don't talk about very often. So it's fun It's fun to have a context and an audience to talk about sports that appreciate it. So no, we should we should do this again I mean, yeah It would absolutely be fun. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would love to talk to you Maybe even just a few weeks to do this because really I mean we can't we kind of In a surfaced sort of way kind of bounced around but the more I hear you speak the more questions it raises and I hope everybody enjoyed it real quick before I let you go though You are kind of everywhere, but can you tell people where the best places are to find your work? You know you're on bookshow.com is a website that has a lot of the material You know, I've got a book that one equal is unfair, which is you know in in sports equal Is unfair, right? We all know this I I'd like us to stop believing that in life That's true. The only place equality means anything is political equality. We should all be treated the same by the law We all have the same rights. We're all equal in that sense But in every other respect in life, we're not equal stop pretending And sports the thing one of the things I really love about sports is we don't pretend LeBron James is better than pretty much everybody else in basketball. That's just a fact, right? And whether he's the greatest of all time or not, that's irrelevant But right now or at least five years ago, certainly he was the greatest player in the world and nobody apologized for that Nobody nobody said, oh no, we have to treat everybody. He's saying no, he made more money And we cheered and you know, how about applying that to business and to other things as well And then of course I have a podcast you can find me on youtube Just put my name into youtube and put my name at google you'll find everything you need. I'm on facebook I'm on twitter, but but youtube and and my website those are the two places you can find me That's the god. That's the thing about When I hear an athlete Tending towards like the left and socialism. I think to myself like you're an athlete Like the better you are the more money you're going to make that's a system you don't support Like what are you nuts? Like it doesn't make any sense. I don't think it's true. But look, right Most athletes Have single-mindedly devoted their lives to their To their if it's basketball, baseball, whatever it is to to this sport I don't expect them to know anything about the world beyond that particularly if you think about From age, I don't know 10 12 8 6 They've devoted that they're not exactly they're smart. There's many of them are super smart They couldn't be great athletes if they weren't smart, but they're smart in a particular way They've studied a particular thing. It's not expansive. So I'm not surprised by their Ignorance and by the fact that they're wrong on political issues Or that they don't think these things through they don't have a life experience to do it Most of my young too. I mean how many stupid things that I say when I was in my 20s Exactly I have a big microphone in front of me and the world didn't care and we shouldn't care I mean, this is the thing I To the fans Why do you care what an athlete says it's meaningless? It's like joe schmo on the street saying something Nobody cares. Nobody should care the whole celebrity culture where we give celebrities this out otherworldly importance Particularly when it comes to politics and and philosophy and and way of living is absurd and ridiculous So so it's on us to stop caring if we stop caring The media will stop caring and these athletes will stop will stop Talking nonsense. I blame the state of the world. I blame intellectuals people who should know better people who've studied people who The equivalent of a of an athlete equivalent of a great basketball player in intellectual field when they're wrong and they all are almost all the time that's Horrific right that is truly truly horrific. So my villains are not LeBron James my villains in in in politics and intellectual My villains are Paul Krugman, right? That's a villain right LeBron James. Who cares? Let me ask about player. I'll enjoy him doing that. I don't really care what he thinks about politics. It's meaningless to my life Well said, sir Take care. This has been just absolutely wonderful. Hope to talk to you again soon Absolutely talk to angela and we'll schedule we'll schedule this for a few weeks