 Gael ddigonwch ddislogio'r byddau yn Comunicorau ac yn bwysigol, mae Gareth Mawr yn fawr bawb am rhefyd yn cael ei sleiddoch chi. Fy varlywch â'r byd. Felly, os ydych chi'n gwybod chi, rwy'n dai ddim yn cymdeithasol eich bobl offensive ac mae'r rhaid i'n femnig o'r cymunig o ffordd i'r Llywodraeth yn cael ei wneud o'r ffordd i'r byd, fyddai ddim yn cyd- cricket? I declare an interest in saying that I have a niece and two cousins who both have Down syndrome. I would like to begin by thanking those who have supported this motion and members' debate from across the chamber. It has been great to see support from almost all parties, although I am disappointed that the Greens decided not to support it. I find it sad that we couldn't bring themselves to put politics aside for the sake of a Down syndrome community. I would also like to thank Dr Liam Fox. His bill has long been anticipated and sends a clear message to the community in this country that for a long time has felt left behind, undervalued and ignored. I am no way saying that the story ends with a passing of his bill, because it is clear that it is still a long way to go, but it is certainly a large step, right step in the right direction. I have to admit that this is not the speech that I had planned to give, nor the speech that I particularly wanted to give. My original speech was going to extol a virtue of the bill. I was going to describe how placing a concrete responsibility on local authorities to accommodate those with Down syndrome will create a much less hostile environment than what we have been used to. Deputy Prime Minister, I was going to petition with the Scottish Government to adopt this bill and allow it to be a UK-wide piece of legislation. The bill was drafted, extended to England and Wales, although there was a possibility for the people of Scotland to benefit. The Downs community in Scotland could have had the same protection as England and Wales. I was hopeful, given the fact that the SNP-NP had publicly supported the bill. Mr Chapman, in the second stage debate, said this. I hope that, should it be passed, our colleagues in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, will look at it sympathetically and introduce equivalent measures across the UK. I wish the bill Godspeed, but it is now too late. The bill has passed through both the Commons and the Lords and is awaiting royal consent. To the delight of those with Down syndrome in England and Wales, new protections and rights are only a signature way from being a reality. Those in Scotland, however, are left with a hollow feeling of wondering what possible reason there could be for the SNP to refuse to support them in this way. The answer, Deputy Prime Minister, is that there is no good reason. That has been a political decision taken by the Scottish Government, but it is so caught up in a constitutional battle and grievance politics that we cannot even support Down syndrome community. The fear of saying that Westminster is bad will overrule even things affecting roads with disabilities. The whole of Scotland has suffered over the past 15 years from the SNP dropping the ball. However, I have been on the constitutional obsession. Drugs death, A and E waiting times, educational standards but with disability community who uniquely cast aside. Let's have a look back at even just a couple of years. During my pandemic, face masks presented a great problem for those who were hard of hearing because muffling of voices made it impossible to those who rely on lip-reading to interact and participate in society. However, health boards around the UK approved clear face masks that the Scottish Government dragged their heels and it wasn't until December 2021 that any Scotland provided doctors with them. Almost two years after the beginning of a pandemic, the SNP refused to prioritise the disability community yet again. Another prime example is with the unfroding ferries in Fiasco. While it is undeniable that there have been lots of mistakes made, the one thing that could have happened was that we could have seen changing places toilets put in the design. Those toilets have a gold standard of disabled facilities that provide all needs that a disabled person might have. More than that, we send a message to the disabled community that you are welcome in a place and you can travel freely. A colleague of mine, Jamie Harper Johnson, asked the Scottish Government whether a plan for the two new ferries included a change-in-place toilet. In short, the answer was no. If it included no such toilet and the iron system to infer for the transport minister, it did not understand that a change-in-place toilet was more than just a disabled toilet with change-in-facilities. Once again, the SNP refused to make the inclusion of the disabled community a priority. There are just two examples, but that shows us the attitude and the reason behind tonight's debate. There was no good reason for the Scottish Government to oppose the bill. It will tell us that it is planning something bigger, better and more tartan, but that is simply an excuse. The UK bill does not need to be exhaustive and has no way to prohibit the Scottish Government going further in future legislation. That was a political decision that uses Down syndrome as a pawn for the sake of scoring seat points against another Government, and that has taken the issue seriously. The result is that, even if the SNP does not bring forward its own bill, those with Down syndrome in Scotland will be forced to wait on a necessary length of time. Unlike those in England and Wales, when I have these rights, they do not occur in Scotland. Stronger for Scotland, I think not, and certainly not stronger for the disabled community. We now move to the open debate. I first call Stephanie Callaghan, who joins us remotely, to be followed by Paul O'Kane for around four minutes. I would like to thank Jeremy Balfour for bringing his motion to the chamber. I must also give a wee shout-out to an inspirational family member with Down syndrome. I will call him Mr T who can will you with his music knowledge and make you smile every day of the week. I want to offer supportive comments in the Down syndrome bill for England and Wales. The bill sets out to destigmatise Down syndrome, improve services and deal with issues that long-term care. It will require the UK Government to publish guidance on the specific needs of people with Down syndrome and how those needs should be met. With legal protections in place, it is hoped that the bill will make it easier for people with Down syndrome and their families to secure the services that they need and to challenge authorities not acting on their duties. However, although I support the intentions behind the Down syndrome bill, I believe that the approach that is laid out by the Scottish Government has clear advantages as we look to secure and sustain the transformative change that is overdue for people with Down syndrome who are living in Scotland. The Scottish Government is committed to introducing a learning disability, autism and neurodiversity bill as part of the programme for government this year. In addition, a very welcome learning disability commissioner role will be created. The bill and the associated commissioner will ensure that the rights of people with Down syndrome, among others, are respected and protected. Being close to a rights-based approach under being Scotland, i.e. a pan-learning disability, autism and neurodiversity approach, is attracting a lot of attention from other parts of the UK. That is because it avoids a situation where one group is singled out and prioritised over another in the delivery of public services. Instead, our approach recognises people's distinctive needs, plus protecting the rights of all those with learning disabilities. Organisations such as Down syndrome Scotland have told me that they are encouraged by the timetable to develop and introduce the learning disability bill in Scotland and are equally impressed by the determination of the Scottish Government to ensure that people with lived experience are fully and meaningfully engaged in the consultation on the bill's scope, ambition and policy provisions. Their voices are so important. The Scottish Government programme provides the community with parents, carers and adults with Down syndrome, with the time and the space to meaningfully express their views in ways that are inclusive, accessible, respectful and rights-based. When I spoke on International Day of People with Disabilities, I focused my speech on the importance of the words, nothing about us without us. One of the criticisms of Dr Liam Fox's bill is how few people with lived experience were included in its development. I applaud the Scottish Government for taking an alternative approach, one that champions the voices of the community. Given the Scottish Government's more inclusive approach that embraces the rights of people with all learning disabilities, it will be crucially important to recognise and explicitly identify people with Down syndrome within the definition of learning disability set out in the learning disability bill in Scotland. The sign officer gives new powers and provisions, guild and work already under way in Scotland to bring about lasting change for people with Down syndrome and their families and their carers. Eddie McConnell, chief executive of Down syndrome Scotland, believes that we are opening a new chapter with the learning disability bill in Scotland, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. I hope that the Down syndrome bill also heralds a new chapter in the UK Government approach in thinking, one that is far more centred in lived experience. As I said earlier, nothing about us without us, Presiding Officer. I thank Jeremy Balfour for securing this evening's debate on the Down syndrome bill, which has passed its stages in the House of Commons and the House of Lords. As the motion states, Dr Fox's bill received cross-party support across the house and has moved through stages, allowing, I think, for important debate and discussion about the human rights of people who have Down syndrome and, indeed, their family and carers. That is what is important today. I do not want to get bogged down in a constitutional debate. I want to talk about the important lived experience of those people that we are talking about. Indeed, my Welsh Labour colleague in the House of Commons, Ruth Jones, spoke very powerfully at stage 2 of her experiences as a paediatric physiotherapist. The work that she did, particularly in supporting children and young people, and I believe that many of the issues experienced by those people and their families were heard perhaps for the first time in the United Kingdom Parliament, and I think that that was crucially important. Although the provisions of the bill relate to England have been welcomed by charity here in Scotland, Eddie McConnell, who we heard in the previous speaker's contribution of Down syndrome Scotland, said that the Down syndrome bill has the potential to be a landmark moment in advancing the rights of people with Down syndrome. He went on to point about the important collaborative work that is already being done here in Scotland to move forward the rights of people who have Down syndrome and people who have other learning disabilities as well. I am proud to have already played a small part in that journey in my working life prior to becoming an MSP, and I hope to continue that work in this place. The Down syndrome bill seeks to remind public bodies of their duties and gives legal weights to the rights of people and families who are fighting to get the support that they need. That is so important for so many people who describe trying to access the right support and services as a daily battle. Although I have already said that the bill has been broadly welcomed in England and indeed by organisations here in Scotland, I think that it is fair to say that there have been some divergent views around how far the bill has gone and the fact that the bill could go further. Indeed, Mencap, for example, has said that they would have done things a bit differently and that they would have been more involved at an earlier stage in the development of the bill. For example, they would have made the bill applicable to everyone who has a learning disability and framed it in the language of a social rather than a medical model, going to greater lengths indeed to engage more people with a lived experience. Mencap has of course acknowledged that rather than oppose that progress, it has looked optimistically at what it could lead to in the future in England. To be honest, Deputy Presiding Officer, I think that that is where we find ourselves in Scotland. I think that we have a very clear opportunity. I have already alluded to my previous work. I had the great honour at Enable Scotland of working with people who have a learning disability, their family carers and other organisations such as Scottish Autism and the National Autistic Society to secure a cross-party commitment to a learning disability, autism and neurodiversity bill with the introduction of a commissioner to advocate, support and protect the rights of people across Scotland. I know that the current Minister, Jerry McBalfour and colleagues across the chamber share the passion and concern that we have to get that right and to work with people across the country to listen to what they need and to deliver that bill here in Scotland and to deliver that commissioner with a robust set of powers to make a real difference. Now, in this Parliament, as convener of the cross-party group on learning disability, I will seek to act as a bridge between the many people who have a learning disability and this Parliament as we work to deliver a bill that will deliver for them. Of course, the work of Dr Liam Foxx and the Down syndrome bill is an important start and we can draw inspiration from it, but I believe that we can and must do more for people who have Down syndrome and people who have other learning disabilities and autism across Scotland. I really look forward to that work. Of course, it must be done at pace, because we do not want to be left behind here in Scotland and we do not want to leave behind those people who really need that bill. However, I am looking forward to the work, the discussion and the debates that we will have across this Parliament and across our country, and I am sure that we will all want to undertake to ensure that the voices of those who are all too often not heard in this place are indeed heard. Thank you very much indeed, Mr O'Kane. I now call on Stephen Kerr for around four minutes. First of all, I thank Jeremy Balfour, my good friend, for bringing forward this important debate today. I would also like to start off by paying tribute to Dr Liam Foxx, our Conservative colleague in Scotland's other Parliament, for the excellent work that he and colleagues across all parties in House of Commons have done in bringing this bill through all of its various stages to legislation. When I think about the issue that we are debating today, uppermost in my mind is a firm friend of our family, a young lady, not so young now actually when I think about it by the name of joy. She is not that much younger than I am, truthfully, but we have watched her through all the decades how her mother has devotedly looked after her, met her needs and frankly the whole of both her mother and her life is an inspiration to my family. I do not think that anyone could be more appropriately named than this lady joy, because that is exactly what she exudes and love, a kind of a pure love that is very rare. I can say in all honesty that her life has touched and is touching ours for good. One of the great strengths of the devolution settlement is that parliaments around the United Kingdom can learn from each other and indeed push each other on. I remember well when the smoking ban was first introduced, this Parliament took a lead on that issue and very quickly the rest of the United Kingdom followed. Now that the UK Parliament has taken the lead in championing and enhancing the rights of people with Down syndrome, we in this chamber and those in chambers in Cardiff and Belfast should be passing identical legislation to ensure that everyone with Down syndrome, regardless of where they live in the United Kingdom, have access to equal rights. I honestly am saddened that the Scottish Government has taken the approach that they have to Dr Fox's bill in the new law. Families that have a child with Down syndrome find themselves fighting on several fronts to get the quality of care and support that they already should have the right to. Within the NHS parents are fighting ever-increasing waiting lists and fighting to be regarded as sufficiently urgent. Within the school system, parents are constantly seeking additional support for learning disability. Within our care system, parents are looking at the increasing pressure and are worrying about how their child will cope in the system when they are no longer there to provide support. This law, Dr Fox's bill, makes it a priority for the UK Government to address these issues directly, and we should make it a law in Scotland to make it a priority for the Scottish Government and all levels of government in Scotland. The law also enhances parliamentary accountability, rather than simply granting the Minister power to issue guidance to local authorities. The bill ensures that guidance would be laid before Parliament, and it allows Parliament to look at guidance in real time, allowing parliamentary scrutiny to determine how the guidance is working and if it can be improved. The law also requires a named individual within a health board to be responsible for the application of this legislation, resulting in parents and families knowing who is directly responsible. That is another positive step in improving transparency and accountability within our health service. I say again that I am sad when I talk to Jeremy Balfour about the response that he has received from the Government to his advances that this legislation should be introduced as it stands through this Parliament. I am afraid that sometimes one is left with the conclusion that the Government simply looks at everything, even the chanting of disability rights through the prism of the constitutional debate. Even in a bill that enhances the rights of those with Down syndrome, the SNP is refusing to budge from its set and repetitive narrative of Westminster bad. Those constitutional games by the SNP and Greens will see Scotland being left behind the rest of the United Kingdom in the protection and enhancement of the rights of people with Down syndrome. I urge the Scottish Government to grow up, follow the example set by the UK Parliament and implement identical legislation to empower the lives of those with Down syndrome in Scotland. I recognise their right to respect independence and dignity. I call on the minister to respond to the debate for around seven minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank all colleagues who have contributed to today's debate. I am very pleased that we will be able to discuss folks with Down syndrome this afternoon and move that even further forward to discuss learning disability, autism and neurodiversity. Let me just start off by saying that, in all of this, I certainly won't be playing any constitutional games when it comes to bettering the life of folk with learning disabilities, autism or neurodiversity. That is not what I am about. I am a bit sad that there have been accusations today about the constitution. I would also say that, as Mr Kerr has mentioned, why do we not have identical legislation? Quite simply because we want better legislation. As Mr O'Kane pointed out in his speech, there has been criticism of Liam Fox's bill because it has not been as inclusive as it should be and it has not listened to the voices of lived experience as much as it maybe should have. I agree completely with Mr O'Kane that we should be looking at all of that in terms of a social rather than a medical model. What I will commit to do, Presiding Officer, is to continue to listen to the voices of lived experience as we move forward in all of that. I give a commitment here and now to work in tandem with the cross-party group on learning disability because those voices of lived experience are heard there, as well as in other places. I hope that we can work across this Parliament to get that absolutely right. I will take Mr Balfour. The minister will know that I am introducing a consultation for a disability commissioner for all disabilities in the next couple of weeks. In principle, it is the Government's support of not only one for a certain area but to cover all disabilities and will the Government support my consultation document? First of all, I have not seen Mr Balfour's consultation document and we will look at what responses come back. Again, as Mr O'Kane points out, there was cross-party agreement in all of the manifestos that a learning disability, autism and neurodiversity bill should be introduced to this Parliament. The Government will keep to that commitment. If I can make some progress and I will take in again, Mr Balfour. The Scottish Government is pleased to see the commitment from the UK Government to the Down syndrome bill. We recognise that people with Down syndrome face a range of challenges at all life stages. It is encouraging to see that the UK Government is exploring how best to meet the needs of individuals. The Government here shares the ambition to improve opportunities outcomes and support for people with Down syndrome, and we will continue to do that. We are aware of the cause to extend the application of the Bill to Scotland. However, our position is that we take a wider view of Down syndrome within the right of people with all learning disabilities. The value of that approach was highlighted by Baroness Sal, Brinton, during the Bill's third reading in the House of Lords in 1 April. She said that, if the Bill had the powers that its promoter suggests, there risks being a hierarchy of learning disability. That has already caused a split between families with learning disabilities, all of whom still need to fight for the limited resources to which the law says they are entitled. We have always taken a wider view here in Scotland, where people with Down syndrome are included in current policy work on learning disabilities in a second through the keys to life and towards transformation plan and our work on learning disabilities, autism and neurodiversity Bill. I will return to some of those points later. I will take Mr... Jackson Carlaw. Jackson Carlaw, sorry. Two weeks off. Jackson Carlaw. I knew I was gone, Deputy Presiding Officer. I didn't know I was forgotten. I have known Liam Fox for over 40 years and I am quite sure that everything he has done in relation to this Bill has been completely sincere. I also think that the minister is a man of his word and I have listened with care to the argument that he has undertaken to put to the chamber this afternoon. I am my concerners with those constituents and those people I know who have Down syndrome and have carried with this across their lives. In what he is saying, can he give an assurance that the protections that he expects will emerge out of this for those with Down syndrome, which he has lined with other conditions to, will be no less robust, indeed will be more robust and that he can anticipate and expect this Bill to be forthcoming and to deliver to meously for those people with those conditions. I think that that assurance would be very welcome. Minister, I can give you the time back for both. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I haven't been critical of Dr Fox's Bill but I think that we can go much further and we can do better by listening to the voices of lived experience. We are delighted that Down syndrome Scotland has been very supportive of our work, led by Eddie McConnell, mentioned earlier, who has done a huge amount for people with Down syndrome in Scotland. I will give you the assurance here and now, Mr Carlaw, that we will do our level best. When I just be this chamber that I will be held accountable by, it will be the likes of Eddie McConnell in Down syndrome Scotland. We intend to get this right for people as we move forward. I appreciate that he has not seen my consultation for a disability commissioner, but he will recognise that the disability community across, whether it is physical, mental or other conditions, has been deeply affected due to Covid. Imprinciable, without committing to every detail, is the Scottish Government in favour of not just the commission of renewal, diversity and Down syndrome, but for all disabilities, whatever we are. I will have a look at Mr Balfour's consultation and the responses to it, but what I am speaking about here today and what we are discussing here today is Down syndrome, and what I do give a commitment to here and now is that in our manifesto and in the manifestos of many others, there will be a learning disability, autism and neurodiversity bill during the course of this Parliament, and that will ensure the rights of people with Down syndrome, amongst others, are respected and protected in law. To help to make sure that this new legislation is championed when it is implemented, we plan to create a learning disability as autism and neurodiversity commissioner through that new law. The Government committed to this bill when the First Minister announced it in the Scottish Government's programme for government on 7 September, and we are currently pursuing it to provide and improve support for people with Down syndrome and other learning disabilities. The Government has set out its commitments to people with a learning disability, including those with Down syndrome, and their families through the 2013 keys to life learning disability strategy and the implementation framework, which was refreshed in 2019. No, I need to make progress. Do I get the time back, Presiding Officer? Yes, but briefly, Mr Balfour. This will be my final one, I promise, to the Presiding Officer. Can I seek clarification? Does the minister expect the bill that he is talking about to be presented in September of this year, or will it be beyond that? What date are we looking at? I am not going to give a timeline for this bill because we have to listen to the voices of lived experience in order to get it right. It is not me who will set a timeline for the bill. It will be those voices of lived experience. We know that there are some polarised views around about some issues. We have to iron all of that out and get this right for folk right across Scotland. I am not going to be pushed in the timeline because we need to continue to have conversations. I talked about keys to life in the implementation framework. Additionally, we have published our learning and intellectual disabilities in autism towards transformation plan in March 2021. The plan looks at the actions needed to shape, support services and attitudes to ensure that the human rights of autistic people and people with learning disabilities, including those with Down syndrome, are respected and protected. They must be empowered to live their lives the same as everyone else. The actions in the plan cover all aspects of life. To address health inequalities, the Government has commissioned the Scottish Learning Disability Observatory to undertake research on health outcomes for people with learning disabilities, including people with Down syndrome. Additionally, we are exploring a national roll-out of annual health checks for people with learning disabilities. We are finalising the review of supported employment and implementing the action plan on the recommendations of the additional support for learning review. Finally, the Scottish Government provides funding to Down syndrome Scotland to support people with Down syndrome and their families. That includes family support, speech and language support for children and peer support for adults. In summary, the Government welcomes the UK Government support for the Down syndrome Bill. We will strive to support the needs of people with Down syndrome, their families and people with learning disabilities more broadly, including via the learning disability autism and neurodiversity bill. We want the rights of people with Down syndrome and all people with learning disabilities to be respected and protected. That is what I will strive to do. Hopefully, we can do that with cross-party support. I hope that that is the case as we move forward. I am sure that we all share the view that we need to do our best for people with learning disabilities, autism and neurodiversity in our country. That will take a fair amount of work as we move forward, but I am absolutely adamant that we get the bill right.