 Coming up on DTNS, a bot hides on Reddit for a week, the new startup trend Ghost Kitchens and Brian Brushwood tells us whether tech can make your hobby into a job. This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, October 8th, 2020 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. From Oakland, California, I'm Justin Robert Young. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. I'm very excited today to have my co-host from the show Cord Killers, the host of The Modern Rogue, Brian Brushwood. How's it going, man? Dude, I'm so excited to be here. Number one, it's been way, way too long. And of all the subjects for you to hit me up for, this could, this is my favorite. As we were talking before the show, if I'm spending more than five minutes with somebody who gives a hint that maybe they want to quit their day job and do what they love for a living, by the time they walk away, they'll have half a pamphlet and they'll be signed up for an email list. Not going to lie. When we decided to do Creators Week, which was Roger's great idea, one of the first things I thought is like, we have to get Brian on for this. So I can't wait to talk about that. We were just talking to Brian about chicken sushi, among other things. If you'd like to get that wider conversation, get good day internet at patreon.com slash DTNS. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Apple will extend all current Apple TV plus subscriptions that end on by November 1st to run through January 31st, 2021 at no extra charge. This includes subscriptions that came free for a year with the purchase of a new Apple device, Apple TV or otherwise last autumn. So if you'd like to watch something good, please use it to watch Ted Lasso. If you are underwhelmed by Apple TV's initial rollout, be a goldfish and turn on Ted Lasso. A West Virginia former coal mine is the site of Virgin Hyperloop's new Hyperloop Certification Center, which is designed to prepare the technology for implementation. Back in 2019, 17 states participated in bids to secure the spot, but bipartisan efforts to choose West Virginia was backed by both Senator Joe Manchin and Governor Jim Justice. The facility will work on safety testing, boarding and disembarkation methods for passengers and passenger comfort. Virgin Hyperloop's Nevada facility called Devloop will continue to work on core technology. As we told you yesterday, Oracle and Google argued their case over the Java API in front of the U.S. Supreme Court Wednesday. Justice Stephen Breyer appeared to lean toward Google. You never can tell for sure. Several other justices, including Chief Justice Roberts, were sympathetic with Oracle's copyright claims. Justice Gorsuch raised questions about whether appeals courts were sufficiently deferential to the jury finding in Google's favor. So who knows how they're going to rule? A decision is expected by the end of June. AMD announced its Ryzen 5000 series processor for desktops, the first to feature the Zen 3 architecture. AMD says that there is a 90, 19, rather a percent increase in instructions per cycle. 90 would be nice, but 19 is good as well. And a higher maxed boost speed. The top of the line Ryzen 9 5950X model has 16 cores, 32 threads and a max boost speed of 4.9 gigahertz for $799. All Ryzen 5000 series chips will be available November 5th, starting at $299 at the entry level. AMD also announced that the Radeon RX 6000 big Navi graphics cards will be announced October 28th. The U.S. Department of Justice announced that it sees 92 domains linked to the Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that was used to quote unlawfully engage in global disinformation campaigns. End quote. These included four meant to look like legitimate news outlets. Google initially tipped off the DOJ about the campaign. The websites were closed for violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act, which requires foreign entities to disclose sources of information when trying to influence U.S. public opinion, visiting the seized domains now displays an FBI notice. The sources of us trying to persuade you to watch Ted Lessa was just us and we're all U.S. people. The UK House of Commons Defense Committee issued a report finding that quote, it is clear that Huawei is strongly linked to the Chinese state and the Chinese Communist Party despite its statements to the contrary. This is evidenced by its ownership model and the subsidies it has received. Now, while the report warns that it should not quote succumb to ill-informed anti-China hysteria, it still commands recommends bringing forward the date by which no Huawei 5G equipment can be used in UK telecom networks from 2027 to 2025 if necessary. It did not find a threat to encrypted communications. Samsung forecast its Q3 profit will jump 58 percent to its highest in two years, beating expectations. U.S. restrictions on Huawei and anti-China sentiment in India reduced demands for Huawei's handsets, which boosted Samsung sales. Huawei also made larger orders for Samsung chips ahead of U.S. restrictions on the purchases. So Samsung also sold more home appliances likely due to pandemic-related lockdowns. The numbers come in a regulatory filing ahead of more detailed earnings report later this month. Android and Wear OS are getting accessibility features called sound notifications that will listen for 10 noises, including baby sounds, door knocking, beeping appliances, running water, or alarms, and send a push notification, vibration, or flash of light. It'll also describe what noise it is detecting and display it on a timeline of noises. The machine learning works offline on devices. And IBM announced it's going to spin off its managed infrastructure services unit into a separate publicly traded company. It's essentially splitting into two. The new company would include IBM's managed services aimed at legacy infrastructure and digital transformation. IBM reports that unit had about $19 billion in annual revenues last year. IBM expects the spin-off to be completed by the end of next year, 2021, with the new company having 90,000 employees as well as 4,600 large enterprise clients across 115 countries. All right, let's talk about how Facebook's going to make sure nothing bad happens regarding the election, Justin. Well, thank the Lord. Facebook announced that it will stop running, quote, all social issue, electoral or political ads, end quote, in the US after the polls closed on November 3rd. The company said this was a temporary step to, quote, reduce opportunities for confusion or abuse, end quote. It will also add a box at the top of Facebook and Instagram stating whether outlets like Reuters have reported a winner or not. This is in addition to them shutting down advertising before election day. Am I understanding this right? Because this sounds 100% completely backwards of what I would hope because what they're saying is we will reap all of the profits and we will spread whatever information true or not that you want. But we promise to stop the moment it stops mattering. I don't understand. So this is in addition to them doing it before. They're going to shut it down before as well. Now, it's also toothless. You are correct in assuming that this is toothless because they're shutting down political advertising when campaigns are historically out of money. So the least amount of money that they are going to spend, especially since they're broadcasting this, all the campaigns will dump all of their Facebook money in a week early as opposed to the week leading up to the election. What they're looking for here is in case there is a protracted vote counting situation, Facebook doesn't want the reputation of Facebook was pushing people for money based on these ads. Now, that has holes in it in that literally everything that's going to happen from election day on, assuming that it is a protracted and long period will all be news. So you're not going to need to buy advertising. If there's ever a time that you won't need to do it, it's when literally everything everybody says is going to be international news. And any unfounded claims that they're trying to stop by stopping advertising can easily game the system and rise to the top of the Facebook algorithm. I don't think it's wrong for them to stop the advertising. It's more of a performative move than not, but it's not wrong. I do like positively putting the, hey, we have verified results from verifiable sources saying X at the top of Instagram and Facebook. I think that is a good idea. I just find that useful if I open Instagram to be like, oh, did they get the results yet? No, okay, great. Yeah, I like that. By the way, what we should also do, and this is something that's usually reported on after the election is that both campaigns agree on one source that they will say beforehand when this source calls it, our candidate will call the winning candidate and congratulate them. It's usually AP or Reuters depends, but it will be interesting if that synced up with what the campaigns both agree are the arbiter. Bots love them. Don't love them. Yeah, well, you know, whether or not you do a bot using open AI is GPT three language model was posting on AskReddit for an entire week before it was uncovered. The bot went under the name the gentle meter and posted several hundred comments. Now Philip Winston was noticing the amount of posting kind of all suspicious and he posted he thought it was using GPT three. The developer of Philosopher AI which runs on GPT three responded that the gentle meter was indeed using the service. Philosopher AI doesn't permit automated use of the service. So it blocked that reddit bot. The gentle meter's most popular post was a story about, well, about a colony of humans living in elevator shafts. You know, I just struck a nerve somehow. The account posted twice Wednesday with the shorter and possibly human written responses. One post suspected that the bot wouldn't fare well on another forum to which the gentle meter responded, you're probably right. And another pointed out that the gentle meter was not a person to which the account replied, except I am. Well, maybe now it is. Or you're just, you know, yeah. I'm waiting till it replies with shoot him. He's the clone. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen a lot of people very shaken up by the idea that Philosopher AI generated text could exist unnoticed on Reddit for a week. I it's two things. One is the flotsam and Jetson of Reddit is not the place where people are most likely to look for, you know, anything aberrant. People post all kinds of things on ask Reddit all the time. The other side of this, Justin, we were talking about before the show is like GPT three is really good. GPT three is the truth is to me the story there. Granted, like you said, not exactly the highest or rather lowest limbo bar to clear when you're talking about Reddit, where many a glue, sniffing opinion reaches up and touches us every day. But GPT three is something that I've seen firsthand. I worked with the beta when it first started. Brian and I's cohost on weird things. Andrew main works with open AI. He built an app where you could write a letter to you could you could write a letter to any historical figure as long as it was programmed in there. And it would write you a letter back answering your question. And as somebody who studied history, it was good. It was really, really, really good. So I'm not surprised that this fooled people. I think some people are really, really flustered, though, because ask Reddit, you know, it ranges all over the place from from the silly to the serious. And one of the threads in here was someone asking about suicide, a very serious topic. Now, the philosopher AI generated response was actually very gentle. And when you if you go and read it, it looks like a very sincere human response. But that's the point is that I think that's what unsettles people is that a bot wrote a response to someone in need of help. And there wasn't anyone overseeing whether it was saying the right things or not, you know, that that's an interesting door that you just opened, because we know from recent research that a placebo works, even when you know it's a placebo. And I wonder if crisis hotlines or some like, even though you know you're talking to a bot, you can't unhear the words that you're reading silently in your mind. And you can't you can't unhear the positive direction that it's guiding you and the effective ways to deal with stress, emotion, depression, all that stuff. I don't know, maybe there's something to that. Yeah, I think what it does point out is if people want to know whether they're talking about a to a bot or not, newer ways of detecting it are going to have to be put in place. Because until someone noticed the frequency, if they just dialed down the frequency, this might have lasted a little longer. Yeah, I mean, all the companies who have chatbot for messaging, if you know, you've got to hit customer support, they have mixed results. But some of them are pretty good. And there are times where I'm like, I just want my answer. It's you know, if you're not a human, it's I'm not offended. Don't worry about it. You know, when you're talking about something more like human safety and suicide and that sort of thing, it gets a little bit more muddied, the waters. But just knowing that something is a bot, I don't think would be so upsetting to people. It's that they didn't know. Yeah, exactly. Microsoft announced new principles for its Windows app store that many see as a response to Apple. And by many, pretty much everyone including Microsoft. The principles include allowing competing app stores on Windows, which kind of always been true, not blocking an app based on its business model or how it delivers content specifically calling out stream from the cloud. Something Microsoft is having a problem with Project X Cloud on iOS, huh, letting developers offer alternate payment systems in apps, something Epic is getting sued for right now, I guess Epic is suing about right now. Yeah, timely access to info in interoperability interfaces, just keeping developers up to date, allowing all apps that meet objective standards and requirements, including those for security, privacy, quality content and digital safety into their store, charging reasonable fees, and not forcing a developer to sell something in its app it doesn't want to something Apple sometimes is accused of doing, not preventing developers from communicating directly with its users through their apps, holding Microsoft apps to the same standards as those from other country companies, not using non public data on apps to create apps that compete with them, that one's a little more of a shady accusation, and transparency on the rules and policies and a fair process to resolve disputes. Now, this is Windows, few people would probably already be pointing out yeah, but what about Xbox and Microsoft address that in their blog post saying these principles do not apply to the Xbox because the Xbox series are quote specialized devices optimized for a particular use, and have a different business model, presumably alluding to game consoles being a loss leader for game sales. So I don't know if that kind of undercuts the standing of these other 10 principles, but it's definitely Microsoft calling out Apple here. Of course it is. Right now there is a tipping point where all the people that are not Apple and Google are using this momentum to see whether or not they can erode some of these policies as they go further and the businesses get bigger. Obviously if you can use a tidal wave of possible government action to enact any kinds of changes or relaxations from the app stores, the dominant app stores, then that is possibly a fundamental change in your business model or a tremendous growth in what you can do with your current trajectory. Microsoft is not a competitive player in that area and so the fact that they're doing a far more partner friendly version of the app store is not all that surprising. Is there any of these that come as a surprise? Like I thought all of these were just what I expect from Windows, so it's a little bit surreal that they would make a press release out of this. It's really good point is that Windows has kind of been like this for a long time. This is Microsoft almost saying don't forget we also have an app store now because this is the desktop. Apple has a desktop app store and macOS doesn't have any prohibition on you installing other programs outside the app store or installing whole other app stores on macOS if you really wanted to because it's a desktop operating system. Some of it is very easy for Microsoft to say hey look at us on our desktop we do this when on mobile even Google with Android it's a little bit looser but it tries to tighten things up more than it would on a desktop OS. Grocery Chain Kroger perhaps you've heard of it is partnering with Indianapolis based startup Cluster Truck which is the best name ever to provide on-demand meal delivery. Cluster Truck operates a delivery service for those so-called ghost kitchens those are created to provide online delivery for food there's not a restaurant that you go to there's no physical there there. Groger is providing kitchen space in its meal preparation areas for Cluster Truck staff to cook meals for delivery or in-store pickup. The partnership formalizes a pilot program that it tried in Carmel and Indianapolis Indiana and Columbus Ohio ghost kitchens also called dark kitchens or cloud kitchens as a new startup trend attracting the likes of former Uber CEO Travis Kalanick who started cloud kitchens and another competitor in Pasadena California called Kitchen United. This is a hot new trend the idea that you don't even have to have a location people can visit because you can just deliver the food to them a lot of people say yeah this is a hot new trend like we work was a hot new trend there's no margin here you can't make a business of this but I don't know if I buy that you can make a business out of a location the question is whether you can whether the cost you save by not having to handle people in the store are made up with the extra delivery you might get because of these platforms but I do think it's smart for Kroger to say like hey we've got food preparation space let's let's capitalize on it let's let's let's let you use the kitchen. A hundred percent this to me is not necessarily an explosive business model but in our modern world it may be survival you know umami burger around the corner for me they now have four different restaurants operating out of there for on-demand delivery there's the regular umami burger there's a fried chicken place there's a vegan place and then another option that's slipping my mind right now but this is about getting volume up there was a great episode of the new york time the new york times thing the daily podcast the daily we're chronicling a local dive bar here and talking about how if you think that delivery is something that keeps the lights on we're talking about like a five percent compared to a hundred percent level of of even just food forget liquor even though liquor is available to deliver now so if you can quadruple the options that people can order from there and it's all one kitchen again I don't think it's it's going to get you rich but it might keep you alive yeah this is uh this is something to keep an eye on uh certainly we're going to see more of these these kinds of options out there uh I do want to finish the story by realizing that there's a new mommy burger near you now I used to live in that neighborhood there was never a new mommy burger there he's a new mommy burger dude yeah what this place came up there's a whole all guys too yeah what you got what you got me out of there yeah exactly there's a whole all guys oh yeah oh it's my favorite folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines dot com man one of the beauties of the internet is being able to do what you love you love uh being a ghost kitchen you could do it on the internet uh and another perhaps even more beautiful thing about the internet is being able to turn what you love into your career so we could think of no other person we could possibly ask to join us then brian brushwood during creator week to talk about how not only he did just that but he helps other people figure out how they can do that brian let's start with how can you tell if your hobby is something that you could turn into a business number one a lot of people um say i want to do what i love that's sort of the american dream is you quit your day job and then you do what you love for the rest of your life i think both of those are wrong number one the order is wrong and the idea of doing what you love for the rest of your life is wrong um i like in doing what you're good at uh to a bit like going to a chinese buffet uh it's very very hard when you see a whole bunch of things that you love to pick which one it is and whether or not you can stick to it forever never never it's very easy to figure out what you hate so i would say first of all think about forever for the rest of your life to stick to it it doesn't need to be something that you love because here's the thing when it's a job you tend to stop loving it quite so much so i encourage you to find something you don't hate and you think for example i like magic i like magic a lot but uh you know what i love is people clapping for me and so i'll do magic for the rest of my life and to have people clap for me because because it's something that i like good enough and i could do forever never never uh second of all the idea of quitting your job first and then building something is insane it's backwards it's ridiculous and if you're tempted to do it i strongly encourage you to read uh quitter by john a cuff in which he tells you to reframe everything look you're trading eight hours of your day nine hours of your day to right now you think of it as a boss a job you hate a grind but if you reframe it as no no no there are 24 hours a day and you're going to trade eight or nine of them to a patron somebody who's going to give you cash keep the lights on keep you safe and you now have 15 or 16 hours for the rest of the day that you get to do anything you want with no matter how insane your business plan your strategy no matter no matter how many times at bats you want to see whether or not it works try this business try that business try making a ghost kitchen try doing close-up magic do do whatever you want you get unlimited failures because your job is a patron who is taking care of you and the only time that you need to think about quitting the the kind support of this patron is when finally your side gig becomes big enough that it is a hindrance to keep trading those eight hours you're like i would make more money if i just had those eight hours and for me it was unusual timing it was may of 1999 i had a pretty good job working for del in the tech business and there was one month when i made just as much money in magic as i made during my day job and i found myself turning down opportunities for advancement in my day job and then and just around that time they gave me a raise and i realized this is how it happens the money gets too good and you end up doing something you hate for the rest of your life so so i would say uh number one start now uh with with whatever low budget version of you what it is you think you want to do but realize that that that your patron is where you're going to keep the lights on and man there's no faster way to break up a marriage than quitting your day job and deciding that whatever your dream is has to work because you believe so much in it i think technology helps smooth the rails a little bit too right it's it saves some of the time that you would other have to otherwise have to put into developing the new gig uh are there technologies that you look at and say gosh i wish those had been around at 99 when i was getting this started yeah dude what's funny is and it's hard it's weird to think of this as a technology but stuff like fiverr the ability to outsource things to talented people 99 designs has been instrumental all of a sudden all those things uh in in may of 99 when i quit my day job the technology tools were there i had photoshop i had you know um uh i've already forgotten the name of the adobe product that makes books but uh but but i had all these layout and design things and everybody thinks that they are a design artist and none of you are yeah what you are unless unless that is what you're quitting your day job to do is design work then you are certainly better off doing what you're good at exchanging it for money and then using that money to purchase goods and services from talented people who are specialized in it that that was something that took me a very long time is just because you can doesn't mean you should and there's almost certainly someone out there who can communicate your thought better than you can you know when i first joined the freelance world because i had always just had a you know job w2 i had benefits and you know they were either better or they were worse but they were there and i realized oh crap i have to do all of this for myself and wasn't super great at it at first um understanding that i've got to pay my own medical insurance and i need to be able to you know make sure that the donations i get are are are are gonna be there the next month and the month after that and if i am not getting that then i am not doing this right how how do you manage something like this for a person just starting out for me i would say three or four months after quitting my day job bonnie was the one that said hey you know sales people entrepreneurs individuals of all stripes anyone who runs a taco truck or whatever uh they all are reading these books on entrepreneurship and uh on on how to invest and how to set money aside for a rainy day and all that stuff and so while we were on the road we went to be dalton bookseller in a mall wow and just spent like 150 bucks on all all the top titles for all that stuff uh now of course nowadays it's a lot easier there's a ton of podcasts there's a ton of free uh and again this is all stuff that you should be doing before you leap or even as you're starting all of these things while you still have your day job so that you can be fully prepared but you're right there's a lot of surprises and i remember uh tom uh i was a fairly vocal supporter of you going fully independent uh and and it was and it wasn't until like a year later that you and i were talking that it occurred to me that there that was a leap for you and that you hadn't done that before and it's it's one of those things where it's like i've just you know it's so obvious to me i was like yeah you should just do everything on your own it's it's you know i'm not gonna say it's like yeah that sounds like a really good idea right i should have pulled that off for six seven years yeah but what i put tom was because you were going from uh uh you being a vendor for somebody else in the same field to you vending for yourself in in in the same field whereas i think what what brian also is just making that the case for is the the the challenge for you or that it should not be do i stop the flow of money to bet on myself right ideally and what it was for me things wound up breaking right with patreon kind of taking off uh is do i give up making double money so i can focus on this other thing because that's that's ultimately what happened is i built up podcasting to a point where it was making enough that i could leave my day job and now the the real question was i can still just trade time for money and and still make x amount and and get my health insurance covered and and i wound up making the decision to go to go fully into it but that's really where you want to ultimately go well and the technology has caught up with the ability to do that better as far as the monetization side of it like with you know how do you decide how you get funded right well number one think of the metaphor of whatever it is you do is all based on not only how good your thing is first of all if you're good at a thing that doesn't matter at all because the extent to which you can trade that excellence at whatever it is you love or do only survives to the extent that you exist in the minds of people who are willing to trade money for it so so i think of it as a sort of mental real estate in thousands of people so so like like right now everything could tank everything that i'm doing could all explode all go away and yet there is another type of ephemeral currency in that let's let's be kind and say hundreds of thousands possibly millions of people at least know who i am so if i start something new i'm able to exchange that that mental real estate into another money making thing so in that regard you you need to build that presence in in peripheral ways and sorry i i think i followed a tangent what was the exact question that i'm supposed to answer so paypal patreon Shopify how do i fund this so all of that yeah so the way i think of it is is because it's real estate i think about your building a crop and then when you exchange it for money you're harvesting that crop many people make the insane opinion of like i have something really good i'm going to get paid for it and then i'll get famous that's not how it works you you have something good you build that real estate in the minds of whether it's other vendors whether it's people on the street whether it's fans one to one and then you harvest it by by whether it's action getting them to sign up on your email letting them sign up for patreon and so on i can really only speak to our business model i know a lot of for example youtubers modern rogue is doing well we're at like 1.3 million subscribers but but most people at that level are making all of their money from adsense adsense makes up i believe less than 20 of our income we make as much through patreon that's direct contribution and then we make like four times as much with integrated ads built into the stuff and then uh and then the bulk of it beyond that is doing an online store and i talked to youtubers who are very successful and they're like yeah it sounds like a lot of work and i'm like yes it is a lot of work it's a very big amount of work but but but if you if you want to grow and develop and and achieve true independence you're gonna have to do the hard work yeah so brian of your experience thus far uh were there any mistakes you made along the way early on that you'd say oh don't do what i did it's it's weird because um every mistake i mean the answer is yes all they were all mistakes they were all idiot things i said yes to gigs i and and it's interesting what happens when when the rent is due i definitely walked around krogers and walmarts dressed in a tuxedo doing magic tricks to celebrate the new homestyle bakes coming out in the grocery aisle uh and and i wouldn't say that was a mistake it was deeply unpleasant and it may but but there was a lesson buried inside which is like yep never doing that again i don't want to pretend to fit into a mold i will figure out something else and so i i think on the one hand yes tons of mistakes but also every mistake is a lesson there is there you have to fail to succeed you that's the only way you really learn because if i told somebody new believe in your heart then even if they do the right thing for them they're doing it for the wrong reasons and that just means that when they learn the lesson it's going to be bigger and more painful well thanks everybody who participates in our subreddit you might have some pain stories as well as far as striking out on your own but you could submit those and vote on others at daily tech news show dot reddit dot com shout out to patrons at our master and grand master levels including hi-tech oaky toony hernandez and tim ashman also big big thanks to brian brushwood for being on the show not only are you healthy but you're bringing the knowledge yeah dude happy back again this is a blast yeah let folks know where they can keep up with your your love you got a lot of work yeah there's a lot going on uh tom and i host a show called cord killers if you're interested in movies and tv and how to cut the cord and watch what you want when you want an any dang device you please were there every single monday uh so head on just look up cord killers give that a try and if you like it you can dip your toe into the modern rogue over on youtube excellent also thanks to justin robert young i know it's been a quiet week for you in the politics world but where can people keep up with the slow news week oh yeah well politics politics politics dot com is where you can find that podcast and then of course everywhere that you get podcasts a big announcement there andrew heaton of the political orphanage has temporarily decamped to oakland so starting with the podcast live for patrons today you'll be hearing a lot more of him on my show and me on his show the podcast political orphanage also my brand new season of raise the dead is currently live the first episode is available called kennedy 64 you can find that at raise the dead podcast dot com but really the big news here tom we got something special for for the for the people huh oh yeah folks politics politics politics a daily tech news show are doing our first true co-production a special episode in both feeds dts and px3 on ab five the california bill uh being pushed by uber and lyft and if you're like i'm not in california why do i care you will care because this will set the tone for how gig workers are treated nationwide and possibly beyond the borders of the united states you're going to want to get that episode and that'll be next tuesday uh the 13th uh but if you are a patron and either uh take politics seriously dot com or for a patreon dot com uh slash daily tech news show right or dns patreon dot com slash tts then you're going to get it a little bit early so uh please go ahead and do it uh i had a we had a great time putting it together and it is a lot of information that i'm very proud we were able to synthesize into something that i believe will make sense for people yeah absolutely so if you're a patron you get it early if you're not a patron get it now so you get that episode early patreon dot com slash dts our email addresses feedback at daily tech news show dot com and we love your feedback so keep writing it in we're also live monday through friday four thirty p m eastern 20 30 utc find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live creator week comes to a wonderful finish with frank ipolito from fingery talking about props and costumes with lind pralte here as well talk to you then this show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants dot com i hope you have enjoyed this program