 Thank you again to everybody there again. Let's get into what's coming up next. I love it. Every time I get to go next next next Lunch is about to come but it's not for us. It's going to be a lot for us. So let's get straight into what's coming in India and sync Musically discussion about sync placement opportunities for music in film TV and the new world these days OTT along with video games Joining us our speakers and of course a master Moderator who will share the entire session. Let's please welcome first our speakers Singer songwriter and non music supervisor for films like gully boy and scenes like Netflix the big day Please welcome uncle Tiwari along with him It's going to be founder Misfits ink management agency and label with a liberal library of indie music for sync confirm And that is Sabine Shetty along with the two is going to be Anisha Gabba Who did join us earlier with the question will be back here as a fan as a speaker New business sync and licensing India and sock Warner media group can and along with the three is going to be Petal chandog advocate and partner trust legal and of course the moderator Such and chair, please welcome managing partner Tina's if they do you a referral for Rera and over to you Wishing you a very happy world music Dave. Are you with us? If yes, give me a yay Yay, yes, I heard that. All right over to you and I can't wait for this very interesting interesting session So let's bring about every indian sync together. Let's go Thank you so much. I'm it in you brought you're bringing out the the energy during this lunch period and I must say we've got a great panel of speakers here. I I Think Anisha has also joined Anisha. Just so you know your videos off, but I know you've joined in I Have joined it, but I think my video is off by Someone the host Okay So what while we get that fix? Let me Thank thank uncle relic Petal Savana and Anisha for joining in here Like mithin said, we're going to be talking about sync placements and licenses of music in film and TV The world of digital OTT and maybe we'll touch upon video games and e-sports bit as well I'd like to first Open it up to Alec and bring in Alec to kick off the discussion With I think somewhat of a basic question of You know, what is the world of sync sync opportunities and what's the role that a music supervisor plays internationally And how's that changing today? Okay. Hi. Hi Raphael. Can you hear me? Okay? Okay. Thank you and happy world music day to everybody. Welcome to everyone on the panel Thanks for having me. So Yeah, we're talking about sync and Like uncle who's on the panel. I'm a music supervisor. That's the the job I got into really through passion for music and also Wanting to help filmmakers tell stories Through their film but with on the music side. So What I do what is a music supervisor is I can obviously do what a music director does which is a Think a phrase that only I've heard about come across in India So a music director is working with a composer a producer a lyricist a singer and putting together a song from scratch Whereas a music supervisor can do all that and a music supervisor can also work with this This new frontier called sync synchronization putting an existing song onto a piece of film. So It's it's it's very simple, but also it's very intuitive I feel it's it's very creative especially when you're looking at a bigger picture of a movie or an OTT series or even if you're looking Not just at one brand film one come up TV commercial, but if you're looking at the brand in general, so how do you help? The bigger picture, how do you? Help have the music become a character in what you're doing become become a tool for the brand So then you need to think about strategy You need to think about texture of the music the feeling the genre the style What will fit into the universe of the scripts of the movie? What kind of Types of music what kind of types of singer will will do that or for the brand? What kind of music are you using to targeting your office? So it can become very Involved and very in-depth and very Creative, but also it can be as simple my job can be as simple as a brand or a client Comes to me and gives me a YouTube link and just tells me we're looking for this song We want to license it for this usage for us. Can you help us to do that? So there's very little creative work in there, but I have to go out and Find the owners of the song who owns the publishing side who owns the recording the master side and I I Have a budget hopefully from the brand I get Ballpark prices I negotiate on their behalf and I make sure a secure Licenses in place secure meaning from a legal point of view that everybody is protected So that that's really my job in a large nutshell Thank you for summing that up and I know it's good that you brought up both the masters and the publishing side I think you know, that's something that we we should focus on During this discussion. I think that's where we can bring in a petal in a bit later on the discussion, but I Uncle I'd like to I'd like you to talk talk to us about Your journey from being Let's say a music composer in a commissioned work or commissioned work for hire model To now being able to flourish as a singer songwriter who keeps his rights while also manages to Sync a song and get a placement Sorry, just would you repeat that like as a journey from From you as a music composer in the traditional commissioned work work for hire model where you lose All rights except, you know being associated with the work To now today where you can be a singer songwriter Keep your rights and also have the benefit of syncing the song to a film or a series or a game Yeah, firstly Hello to everyone and happy world music day to everyone. I like really well put that I hope I can get that recording of what you said because it has, you know It answers that question what a music supervisor does in a very nice nicely worded manner as a as a composer The world in India is changing very rapidly and for the good The copyright law has changed since 2012 at least we are in greener pastures now And I feel it's very interesting. I have been an independent musician since since 1998 and since it When it didn't kind of make any sense to be an independent musician. You are not making any money. There were no gigs There were no venues There were no festivals. I don't know why I did what I started doing then but slowly as time has changed and The laws are coming into place Interesting projects are coming into place. The whole film industry Is kind of getting restructured with the entry of the digital world with the entry of streaming music with the Entry of the OTT platforms It has changed quite a lot earlier When I started making music it was all about either self-releasing your work by printing your own tapes or Printing your own CDs and handing it out to friends if you are an independent musician to or getting signed by a Label that will take away all your rights They will give you a token money that you pretty much probably will end up spending in recording the album Make some money doing live gigs Hope that somebody from the mainstream music scene Which is primarily the music scene the movie scene or the spiritual religious music scene spots you and then You Record with them and you make more money and doing live gigs Which has rapidly changed since the digital world has come in and now It makes a lot more sense to keep Your publishing and your master with you because multiple opportunities With music supervisors in our country around the world help you place your work in ad films in movies in Shores and different forms in Different kind of brackets right from sync in films to be used in trailers in you know promotional material It's been happening in the advertisement world in India for a while But it's good to see it kind of permeate through and through now in all mediums. So it's exciting It's exciting times for both mainstream musicians and independent musicians So as a follow-up to that Can you tell us how much the needle has really moved in terms of Commissioned music that is commissioned for a specific requirement To music placements of from an existing catalog in India And if you could maybe specify for ads and then for film and TV and video As I said for ads, it's been happening for a while a lot of advertisement films have In the golden period of advertising when creativity was like, you know shooting off the roof people were using music very very interestingly and You have seen that happen through the last decade probably With films recently, you have started seeing directors Enjoying themselves a little more with music. We've always been very musical in our storytelling And the directors have always in India have had a tradition of using music very creatively Having said that tradition can also work against you because it was always this way of like, you know One music director getting the whole project and doing everything for the movie Which included the score which included the songs everything with the way the rights were Placed with the major labels and how much it would cost usually from top to bottom the movie would be carpeted with original music Which was very interesting, but since the laws have changed and things have changed That has changed as well People are the newer directors a new breed of directors are more experimental with the way they're using the music They don't they're trying to break traditions. Sometimes it works really well. Sometimes it's good to Go with the tradition depending on the project They have been using different music directors for the same project different people Doing the score and different people Making the songs then different people doing the score different people making the songs and then have a bunch of songs that are licensed To you know raise the level of the sequences in the film And it's it's quite exciting even like cover versions of songs being done interestingly The remix that are completely messed it up but There were some interesting films in which people used cover versions of songs really really interestingly and Almost introduced some older songs to a newer generation And took the catalog forward That's a that's a great note to bring Anisha in on and Anisha you've been with a major Indian label and now you're with a major international label And uncle just spoke about the remix era reworks Things like that. So what what do you look at? We've heard from the music supervisors. What do you look at before? You know granting a license Off a track from your catalog Yeah, so What I feel is like I agree with uncle. Yes It totally depends on the story and obviously the job of the supervisor to bring in The music which fits well with the music with well with the storyline And obviously it has to make sure that the song will fit whether you're using the original composition or whether you're using the Cover version, but yes, it's definitely enhanced it Of course like how I think it was A while back where people were not aware about the same licenses, but in this today's time where There are a lot of Societies the bodies are coming in the you know Frontline and they are completely telling us about the compositions and the publishing and what rights do we have to give When it comes to the sync License the kind of their lock factors that you know determine how much and what is Required or the placement and also from a label whether it's major or anywhere else. What rights we are going to issue Depending on obviously the type of visual media from a video Whether they are taking on the social whether they're taking on the digital or they're taking to the Blockbuster film or to the OTT of the world these days and also the duration There are a lot of budgets of the production basis on which we decide whether you know It's going to make justice to us because as a label coming whether it's Indian or international There are labels where we have a certain relation with the Artist and the producer where it's not only that there is a very missed conception Just to clear it out where people feel why you know, the things these are so high It's better You know, a lot of people keep have that thought in it. It's great way much cheaper than using the old track But what according to me coming from this industry and spending over the years What I see that there is a place for every kind of music Or you know in sync licenses And if just the song is right for the scene ads Campaign or a project that's all that matters So if the factors which determine the same placement which supervisors are in the best place to understand that yes This is going to do the justice Or to it but it's also saying placement actually drive awareness For the label. So what I according to feel it's not only a win-win situation for the label or a major You know for the music but also When the song which is a popular Hit already you must have seen those songs which fits well to the situation Because as a layperson you can connect to those tracks, you know, and that's how the project also becomes And the music becomes a crucial part of the project altogether So we're giving an example like I said that the type of visual You know, how you're going to sync the music with the Audiovisual that is really important. Obviously the budget of the production depends from zero to millions and obviously the region because People are looking for when it comes to the film. They are usually looking for In perpetuity license, but for a label it is very very important to know what region you are looking for the licensing Reason being because there are certain rights when we acquire as a label We may make sure that yes, this territory is allowed this Territories which may not have that kind of a right that a label have acquired and during that period of time And having said that the demand of the song and the popularity of the artist It definitely plays a game in the you know, the sync business altogether The nature of the usage whether it's a you know the the from the quick background music to the opening credit It plays it and supervisor would be in a definite Place to help the label or make understand though obviously being the label We can definitely help with some certain suggestions the song of that era which goes well with the You know the situation at it helps the previous You know the a lot of sync licenses in the past which was issued and Have resulted really well even for the project and also for the music like I said it goes hand in hand So if the platform or you can say if there is a sync placement It it definitely drives awareness So small percentage even of the small percentage of the viewer that fill your song in a film or a tv show Will pick up their phones to you know to youtube it or to do shazam to know about the track right and The track when it's all it's already big when people use it in the trailer or even in the film They clearly click with that and then that's how the interlink happen and that's what the sync business is all about though What I feel like I've already said this you know according to me For the supervised or you can see the upcoming composers Make a song that stands on its own as An instrumental, you know make a song It shouldn't totally depend on the lyrics because it's not necessarily that the entire original song is required like uncle clearly said Uh, you know I'm going to come back to you on that note Just before that I want to bring in petal and then savanna as well on this petal if you can you know, we we've heard We've heard from the music supervisors we've heard from the license saw side as well now and I wanted to ask you what are some of the hurdles or challenges while Negotiating these agreements these contracts closing them. I know alec also mentioned that a part of his role is Negotiations, but Making sure the the rights the territory the term is rightly worded things like that. What do you see as some of the rules that you face today in india and maybe Could go away now going forward in india Right, so thanks rafael for the question Firstly, I really wanted to share that you know with the ott really Having a rise in our country and we see that Nowadays, we don't have live gigs and we don't have live performances so I really feel that You know this entire aspect of sync placement is going to play a very very important role in the coming few years and Definitely that are going to you know be specific laws also, you know regarding this regardless of that having You know understood that the idea and concept of sync placement is something that's come from the us Right because they are very protective and very very conscious of their rights as singers And I think that has also started happening now in our country where you know Singers and artists are really really conscious of their own rights And they really want to protect it for you know times to come for years to come And while we also, you know Negotiate for our Clients who are artists and singers. We really see that at least the underlying intellectual properties that are there You know as authors remains with them so Definitely, I think what Anisha touched upon that when we are looking into these sync licenses A lot has to do with the you know the royalties that we are looking at the license fee that we are looking at Because that's where you know, they are going to commercially be benefited Of course terms are something which is again a very very important role that is that that it plays and Things like you know even receiving the royalties one aspect that now Is still is in a very very gray area because even though the provisions and the law under the copyright act says that you know It's only the singer or their legal areas and the society Which is entitled to receive the royalty, but still when these singers, you know, they When they give away their rights or they wave off their rights to these music labels, then there's a You know, there's a disparity between law and the contracts that they've executed So these are the kind of legal hurdles that you know, specifically that we go through and we see that is still matter which is spending before Specifically the high court and I'm part of so I wouldn't really mention you know say anything specifically on that but definitely I think when while negotiating the major aspect that comes into play is their rights of their right to receive the royalty and I think the kind of you know The kind of fame that even even even as singers they get you know through these placement sing placements Because just to give an example, you know the 1951 song that we heard in ludo, you know So none of us would have heard that song before But because of that song, I think the movie also gained an attention and even the song, you know Yet again again the tension after so many years So those are the kinds of of course, there's a lot of creativity that goes into it and things like that But I'm sure the singer or whoever the owner was of that song would have you know really gotten a lot of royalties for that song now Um, so I feel yes, so major aspects are of course the term the royalty um your underlying rights that you have and Yes, I think it's not a set format ever Um, each negotiation that we go through is different from you know one another So we can never say that, you know, there's a template even though what we've seen in the past is that a lot of music Music albums and singers have executed templates, you know, which is why now we have a lot of problem dealing with it When they're all in disputes unfortunately So I feel that each issue should be taken up as you know As an individual case and should be negotiated that way and then you know accordingly a contract should be executed for that I'm with you. I think we can talk a whole day about how we need to track royalties that are being paid for Sink and who Who actually has the final say? Um on whether a sink was done and how much was approached for the sink Towards the publishing things like that. Those those are some macro level issues. Um there um, but I'd like to bring in Savana at this point and uh, Savana, I'm coming to you with this question. It's uh, is I don't know. I feel over the past two years sink has really become a buzzword Um and artists are now looking for sink placements. They're they're looking may not be they're looking in all different directions I don't know if uh, if there is one place to particularly look but as uh representative as a manager of artists, uh, how much are you actually relying on Sink as a source of income for your artists Savana, I think you'll have to be a bit louder. I'm not sure if it's only me Can you hear me now a bit better? Yes Okay. Thank you for having me. Uh, happy world Coming to a question Honestly speaking, like we started two years back We were focusing more on all this Idealized registration and all this registration that required for glad to have hygiene practice, which usually should be done Regardless, uh, why then back then we were not relying much on sink as such because majorly the revenues were coming in from live shows and Some kind of big sense of But coincidentally because of the time they make fortunately or unfortunately, you can say there's a shift which has happened and We saw a lot of Portuguese and all this platform booming in and you know that you grow opportunities for such placements and Majorly for the non non-filmar independent artist because I think it's kind of easier to clear And mostly independent artists own the rights and everything is with among themselves And there are no multiple shares But it's all the past two years that have been seen this right happening But I wouldn't say it's a major share of revenue In terms of artists who come while in the past maybe say around 70% of the revenue was coming from live shows 20% maybe from branded Commitments as such Now I could say While there are no live shows happening, but there's a hybrid model that is coming in where almost all of your digital streams and everything have a layer of sink Licensing to it So we could say right now with the movie placements and stuff It's about 15-20% of the Revenue that is coming in from the from the panic placements in movies and things and stuff like that But the other 30-40% of the revenue still coming in from the digital streams and branded streams that we are doing So and we are hoping to see that goes up in the future That's great is it's it's great that you brought up the sink angle and the virtual stream I think about approximately a year ago. We were really debating if a virtual stream was a sink license If we'd be we'd have to go through the whole rigmarole of obtaining a sink license virtual performances I'd like to bring in Anisha back in at this point Anisha What have you seen over the past year as a licensor Of music. Have you seen a lot of requests? for clearances pre and post For virtual events music being used in virtual events Absolutely. I think the entire business Went virtual at that period of time where people were just doing concerts and since obviously for Those rides they were not expecting that they have to get those rides clear because of the social media as the rights and all of that but when it comes to the branded activity when it comes to the You know concerts and events usually when it goes on ground there is the ppl But now when it comes to virtual then obviously label and a publisher comes in the picture Where they need to clear those rides from the label and yes, there were a lot of requests coming in but Over there what I have seen yes last year It was like every other day there is a request coming in because people want to go You know virtual and online with obviously supporting the covid and the pandemic which we were At that period of time and even now, but I think We have learned from last year a lot Considering the fact that the virtual event we Like I said that obviously as an audience if I look at it, we were still not prepared, you know to go virtual and Their brands are really have must have seen that era where you know, they must have tried going virtual But yet the audience is not ready for it However, what I feel is knowing We are still in the pandemic and looks like the situation is not going to go normal And this is the new normal for another six to eight months at least So Right now, I think people are still getting prepared You know, they know that this is the new normal and Now the brands have come up with this strategizing in a fashion where You know, they can reach out to the right audience. We can reach out to the people instead of just creating You know the virtual event But the strategy has to be clear whether there is a message to be conveyed or whether there is just bringing The community together of the artist or the fans or it's just giving the user experience So that strategy needs to be very well in place understood and Now this is a My last let's say business or market oriented question before I come to some of the creative questions for uncle Alec and and stuff and I But essentially a question that that are like all of you do addresses Where are we Has the Indian market in terms of sync come come of age have we matured as a market? And I I don't want to say in comparison to the west because I I don't know if any Any real market can in this regard because you have your blanket license markets And then you have your the kind of your free or voluntary license markets So I don't want to make a comparison there, but I really want all of you to address this question and whether India Has come of age as a sync market and is there a lot more growth and maturity to be gained here Maybe uncle if you could if you could kick that off Yeah, definitely. There's a I feel that there is it's a very interesting emerging market at the moment But I would feel that it's not only India. It's worldwide India definitely is the flavor of the season everywhere in the world Whether you see it in mainstream Hollywood, whether you see it in uk whether you see it in India So it's I feel for artists. It's a good time to reach out to music supervisors overseas as well Labels to see how they can like sync their You know that their content overseas as well including in India And I feel it's it's a very interesting time for artists in India and labels in India With the material that they own I I completely agree with uncle. I think this is the time we have to make the music we have to make music travel You know travel across the globe and people are aware about and that yes the Indian music is celebrated all over the world and It's just time we need to open up a little bit and hence there are international Labels coming here and in fact not only the international labels, but yes the platform There is a scope which is opening up a lot With respect to the sync opportunities and the sync placement not only as a blanket license to be given or even You know having the artists providing them the live concerts and anything But now coming with the virtual world which we are at right now. There is gaming Opportunities which is open up where you know, you can have Any environment can be one second Anisha. Sharon. Could you mute yourself? Thank you Sorry, Anisha. Yeah, could you take that to rewind a little and come back? Yeah, thank you so much. Jesus. I'm so sorry I guess it is very important for India or to, you know, make the music travel outside India as well And which is not yet promoted and like Uh, I think Peral has already given a best example so far of Ludo which has gone to the festivals and all of that And that song was of 50s and how it bring You know in the picture and in fact outside India We have seen coming with this short video platforms and even the gaming app which they would like to use to track which was not Used it. I think those era whether legend is always legend what I believe is that yes trends keep on changing But there is always Always a requirement for the music throughout whether it's the melody whether it's the upcoming trends, but You have to make sure that you know making it the growth fight Yes, you have to make sure as a composer what Coming from or not a composer or creative side, but from the business side But those songs which has the melody is Going to work For a lifetime, you know No matter what if whether you're making the lyrics go well Whether you're making the instrumental go back when you are creating a music You need to ensure that yes that music needs to be celebrated throughout In perpetuity so that you will also keep getting the artist keep getting the royalties all over So when the music is getting created it is going to be celebrated at that period of time And that's the reason high profile artists They know what works and they know that what is going to work considering rd woman or you can see You know Lincoln Park giving example from the international market. They know what music will keep on playing throughout the You know Lifestyle no matter what generation whether it's Gen Z whether it's millennial whether it's old generation They will have that melody All across the music. That's what I believe in And there is a growth over that That's well put. I think You've emphasized every time you spoke what what I've heard is You know the long tailing Long tailing and discovery of music a sink is a great a great way To both long tail a song as well as to discover new music I'll come to alec with alec if you could also you you've worked I know you've worked with with clients and brands here in india And you're working in other international markets So how while you address my previous question if you could also Let us know how the markets compare or how does india as a market compare? I think There's optimism. I wouldn't say pessimism but things things that I hope will get better The optimism is here right in front of us. Um We have for example, um I think better and better people representing the the the big labels here and Understanding sink and on the music side. I think it's good. It's it's developing, right? I think We need more music supervisors um, because these are the people who are Um neutral they're we're in the middle, but we're not middlemen doing deals that can be Uh, that should be pushed out or or try to avoid For saving money or something. We're actually creative, but we're able to um, hopefully put ourselves in a position of trust With the filmmakers. So the thing So we have also like this, uh I'm very happy that cobalt are now in india through silenki and atul Somebody I know rajat is uh, just started at sony publishing. I think these are all really really good signs I'm looking forward hopefully to work with, uh, anisha Warner actually, I need to talk to you after this. Sorry to have to this panel So if you can send me your number or something I was wondering why anisha had to leave only now. I know So on this side, I think everything is It's going in the right direction. I'm happy. I can compare it to Three four years ago. That's how long I've been interested in india And and coming here and trying to develop My skills my work my business in india Where I see that the improvement has to come in in line with Keeping the progress uniform and together is from the clients quite quite, uh, honestly, I I feel There isn't that that much understanding about what we do about what is sink about why It in what situations could it be better than More useful more productive than a composition If you're doing a composition just because you think you have more power over how the music will sound and more Ability to take the rights Then you're not thinking at all in the game, you know that filmmaking is still it's a business I understand that marketing it's a business, but it's also a creative pursuit And that has to come into balance and uh, I'm so I'm not talking about anyone here around the table or anyone from before I'm not making any big judgments. I'm just telling you because I work in other markets Also, yeah, I can compare but I don't have the in-depth experience of someone I anchor who I would defer to But these are how I see things. I think I think the clients They really are lagging. I think they're really The composing is like they're crutch and and They go to and It's fine, but you know the conversations I have here That's hidden with a kind of false confidence the conversations. I have with directors around the world Australians, British Americans French russians is like, oh god. Yeah, I'm so glad you're here because you know this whole music thing I find it so difficult and and thank you for helping so I'd love to see a bit more of that conversation here. I'm not saying In any way that I'm trying to position myself as a star or as But that's my job. You know, that's what I do and it's to help the labels and to help the artists but also to help the filmmakers and I feel like The the labels the publishers they all understand now what I do what we do. Sorry uncle and how We can help and how what we can bring to them and how we can help position their music in people's minds who are who are decision makers But I'm I'm still feel that has to happen in more than just a few notable cases in the whole film and and marketing industries And I'm gonna come because you I promised even before the last question I promise we'll come back to the creative part But I I I promise you I've got a good question lined up for that before that southern I and Petal earlier spoke about some of the hurdles, you know, thinking The song and this is a creative lead up by the way, but What are some of the reasons that you've seen let's say in the past year or two that you mentioned? A song will not get singed or will you Someone has a creative interest for a song. They feel it's right But they're not able to go out and secure that placement um, well in my opinion, obviously uncle and alec better You know Answer your question. Yeah, but in my experience, obviously like what I've seen is Like alicia and alec pointed it out. There's a lack of information and knowledge about From the client side of what exactly they do need in terms of what kind of licenses And stuff like that. And also, there are very many variables coming to play when you're producing or I need to find the music as to who holds the right to how you're going to produce the music and stuff like that Budgets also coming to play them in the question. Like, you know, how how much budget do the client What about on the artist side? seven You mentioned on the the client side. There is a lack of information and we even the supervisors may not Be able to find You know, the rights owner information, but what about on the artist side? Are artists aware? What should artists be aware of? things like that and After you petal if you can also elaborate a bit more so that artists know What, you know, the difference on the master side the publishing the performers, right things like that Yeah, so even from the artist side, there are times where we've been asked to make, for example There was a thing so that you're working on what you asked to We make a folk song while in traditional The folk song is always public domain But to prove that it's in public domain and stuff like that You're not able to do that. And when they are like, they go You have to commit on paper, right? So it gets a little tricky So these kind of information is not easily available as such So not like the supervisors that even it's the job like go out and see them, but sometimes it gets challenging to actually find Yeah, that's it's strange to hear that the burden of proof is on you to prove that something is public domain. Yeah but Petals, I've and I just touched upon that point in agreements with otd platforms. Can you maybe Let artists or licensors Who are not as structured as the majors? Know what they need to look out for while granting these licenses in the reps and the warranties that they have to make the covenants that they have to make right, so Firstly, I think from the license or side Who's giving the license? So they really need to look at what they are actually Licensing, you know, so which part of their right? They're actually licensing when it comes to a song, you know There are there are lyrics in it that there is composition how alec had, you know initially said that what all consists in a song And when we are looking at a sound recording, you know, it has underlying literary works and so on and so forth So while we are giving those rights, of course, you know We see licenses of digital rights and, you know, satellite rights, etc. All of that While we do that There are aspects like I said initially earlier also that, you know, for what duration are you giving it? What is your, you know, royalty that you are looking at who is going to collect the royalties that you is it the IPRS Then coming on to things like what are the territories that are worldwide right or not Whether you have so if you are actually giving all your rights Whether you can do so or not like I said, there is a provision on the law where you can't even give away your rights to collect royalty, you know so that that dispute which is already going on between the Music labels and the you know societies Where the society say that no, they are the ones who must be collecting these royal teams But this music label say but the actor I mean the performer has already given away his rights, you know so those kinds of Those kinds of obligations if a performer is actually given in his or her contract Uh, then that only that itself creates a lot of dispute, you know And the entire contract sort of becomes I won't say void But yes a disputable document which again is, you know open to a lot of interpretations in the court of law Uh and coming on to the licensee who's going to take uh, I think the first and foremost aspect that they Look into and must look into is the due diligence Uh, whether it is actually, you know their Their work or not. I mean whoever is licensing it And if it is not then whether the chain of title is correct or not And you know all of that so I think the due diligence is very important because That's where what we have seen over the years is that there will be two people who are who are going to fight for the same song You know so two music labels who are who are actually, uh, you know claiming their rights over the same underlying and works and you know sound recording in a movie. So So to to be able to establish that entire chain, you know, whether this is the exact person who from whom it has to arise I think that and of course, so their own rights like it goes, you know, either way where what they are taking Of course the aspect of for, you know, whether The right that is being assigned is actually there or not or the right which is being licensed is there or not So aspects like those I think like I said You know, uh contract on each deal is going from the other but these are the major parameters that I think I think sim You're unmuted right now and we can all hear you but uh, Forgive me if I was smiling so much you you know saying things like chain of title music to my ears at least but now No, the big climax within I know you're flashing there. I don't know how much time you're going to give us and One one more minute. So that's just one last question. And I I think this is the climax Forgive me if if it does not meet your expectations, but Uncle Alec and anyone else who who can answer this question. What really makes a song sinkable? I know people are dying to hear this answer. So if you can let us know before we throw It out to the floor to ask questions What makes a song sinkable? Shall I take that? Yeah And I'll start that. I would love to hear uncle's When I work on um, I obviously have a My own passion in music which is right here and in my hard drive when I work on um When I work on a project for a client It that all goes away and I'm doing whatever the client wants and that becomes somehow my favorite music even if it's music I would never listen to ordinarily so I Can't listen to a song out of context and say it's sinkable. It's it's so amazing how how sync works how music and image works, especially when you go to Let's say the more developed markets which then become more sophisticated than how they use music It's not so much obvious anymore. You can use music that really juxtaposes against The visual against the story at that moment, but somehow really works So it's not in the exact science. It's definitely an art form. So Whenever I talk from from all over the world to Musicians producers labels sync reps who send me music Publishers It's just keep doing what you do. Don't try and make it. Don't try and second-guess. Don't say oh, I've made this song And uh, it uses the word Thirst and so it'd be great for a soft drinks company Uh Don't do that. Just just make the music when you talk about sync. Just make the music You have and there'll be somewhere where it will work There'll be somewhere where it's the most sinkable song in the world where You'll hear that everyone will hear that song on that piece of film on that clip and think Nothing else will do nothing else works. Nothing else comes close So it's it's sorry. It's not a really, uh An exact climatic And but there there are songs that you can hear you can say, yeah, they're very sinkable. They sound very cool They're very catchy But they may just not work on film and I can't explain you that that's One reason why I love my job. I love what I do because it's not always easy It's not always sometimes you go through many rounds of things and you feel like a detective You know, you can be also a detective finding out who owns the rights for a very old song a very, um, You know obscure piece of work but you can also be Thinking about it at night Staying up can't sleep because you you know There's something there on the tip of your tongue and it's you know, somewhere in your mind But you can't work it out and it's often not what you would have thought not what you would have planned for that I think the exact lyrics you were looking for is nothing else matters I If I could just just add on one more thing to what alec said I think what makes a song or what makes uh, you know a sound recording sinkable is the creative mind Behind whoever is doing it. I think that's what it takes And I think people like alec and you know like people like him and others that who actually make it happen I think that's all it takes and the hard work that goes behind that. Yeah Yeah I agree with that. Yeah. Thanks. My ego is a bit bigger now But one thing even I want to add on here is that yes the editor or the supervisor might want to The one way Whether the song is thinkable or not is just drop off the vocals Or you know in that section of that song and the instrumental part which is left Or you know still need to talk for dynamics Or the commercial song So mute the vocals play the track and watch a show or a commercial in the background with the sound off That's how you will know whether it stand out on its own when it's thinking and that's how when you know that yes, this song has Or done is the song has done the justice and then you can use it whether the vocals will work it out Whether the instrumental part is working out. So it's not like there are like there are multiple components of the song So it's not only the lyrics which plays the biggest role when it comes to the music But also the instrumental so when you are creating the music you have to figure out all those components that yes This can sink individually and the lyrics can be used individually because it's not one way Like I said that every sync opportunity is very different from one another That's an that's an interesting interesting point. I'm not sure if you know, there'll be many who will agree with it but Yeah, let's let's go to anchor and I mean Anisha brought up a point about Music editors and I read somewhere and I also I've heard from a lot of editors who Sometimes they musically have the final say on what will go in You know and that comes down to the final details, but anchor if we could hear from you Because I'm tone deaf. So I'm I'm doing the paper pushing but if you can If you can answer the question of what makes something syncable I mean, it's a very very difficult question to answer Because there is I would say that you can't Consciously do that It's like what like for instance alex job is and my job is to listen to a lot of music And to know your music inside out To listen to libraries of music to listen to songs all the time. I probably do Like at least two two and a half hours of listening almost every other day of music Which is not linked to any project what I and I try and do on my end is I try and get Involved with projects as early as possible Possibly even at the script level Even before the visuals come in so you kind of a sinking in the project in your mind even before it's shot Meanwhile, you're listening to music constantly which might not be linked to your project at all You never know how a piece of music fits An image because after all what the supervisors around the world are trying to do Is to make that visual image exciting What we are collectively trying to do with the labels with the musicians With the supervisors and the directors is to make some exciting piece of moving image How it fits whether the music fits in the grain again, whether it works against the grain We have seen examples of amazing action sequences cut on love songs We have seen examples of like, you know a very fast-paced song Playing in some sequence which you wouldn't have imagined Or sometimes when you listen to music people say well that song is very visual You but you don't know where it's going to fit. So you I feel that you never know I feel it's the creativity of The director the music supervisor and the editor that comes into place When even like, you know, you hear a song and you feel okay the introduction of that song Might fit this really well and maybe when it cuts to the part where they start singing doesn't work So you when you know your music really well and when you're listening to a lot of music and you've been involved With the project for a long period of time it organically somehow falls into place And so I would take keep the burden of Making the music sinkable to the supervisors and the directors and the editors and take that burden away from the artist And I think To sum it up uncle you sound like you're more of the Daniel Day Lewis type of music supervisor where almost the I'll just take this as a compliment and I'll go to sleep because my day is done after this compliment So what I mean to say is there are method actors and now you sound like a method supervisor the way you immerse yourself in In a script and in a project with I think at this point we can open it up To the flow within if there are any questions to people in the audience Before before we do that. I'd like to say I know Savana you're you're working with a lot of artists. I I don't know if you're open to working with other artists to To bring them into a small library or things like that where they can be in and I'm talking about My brothers and sisters in the independent non film scene here If if you're open to working with them uncle if you're open to working with them and Alec If you're working open to working with those catalogs, Savana if you'd be interested in collating the catalogs I think there's a you there's a huge Snowballing effect that this could have but One word answers yes or no from from all of you here Yes, of course We do believe in inclusivity and although there's a management focus management on the key talent that we manage We do have a like music library which we have built across Beyond our roster. We have About 300 or 3d in the song library. We're pitching Some various electronics to some of the songwriters to the bop and all kind of genres and we're building it like a resource to For the music supervisors and the neighbors to be able to identify This song for them. Okay Um All right, I can quickly add to that like, you know, like it's it's about everyone growing together and For instance, I'm a musician myself But 99% of times I find myself Pitching other people's music because it's about You know, working with people and if if everyone does well the industry does well then you do well as well Yeah All right some For everyone else you can say yes together and we'll just We'll just end but I have a question for mithin. Did he change his clothes? I did. I did just change my please. I haven't grabbed lunch Looking good I told you I told you it was a method supervisor. You notice is everything I did listen to that. Thank you. Rafael. Thank you uncle. Uh, uh, Patel Patel and of course Anisha One quick thing. Honestly, Alec. Alec. So sorry. I missed out in announcing you while I was talking about the session. So I hope that is Okay, and my sincere I was a bit late on board. So no worries, you know, that was an incredible session and uh, I don't want you to hear this artist called G burato G burato is from brazil. He does a lot of sync Placement in music and different platforms in brazil. So if you get time, please do listen to him as well But now thank you so much again. Wishing you a great world. Happy music day. And of course your guy international day and You guys just made this platform even more beautiful. So thank you so much