 Welcome to the Microsoft 365 AMA adding our thank you everybody for joining and welcome. Hello everybody. Hello. It was looking back through you know it's been two years since we did the last live stream. Wow. And for those that don't know that some of the background story we started this on I think week three of the pandemic I'm trying to remember the exact timing around roughly around that. And we thought we'll do this a weekly thing until the pandemic you know everything opens back up. We did 57 weekly episodes of the live stream before moving to our video model that we've been doing ever since. So it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Thank you. We're back. When we do the recordings we only have like you know from three to five of us generally on there at a time and so like we're still missing a couple people that were hopefully Hal and Sean joined in here soon. But yeah we've got others that couldn't make it Michelle, Neil and Max and a few others but that are part of the crew but it's great to see everybody and go in. So any I know I know when we were doing our live streams we go through and we talk about news first. I know there's so much to cover there or Mike does his shtick. Some of it was news some of it was not news but yeah yeah that was that was a segment we got into. And I think you actually asked me at one point you said hey can you just you know put some stuff together and talk about it you know from a news standpoint and I did it and I kind of twisted a little bit and it took off from there so. Look at that little annoying banner to run through the bottom. Oh man. All these cool tools. Sorry. What a what a marketing person. Yeah. Well this is kind of a marketing guy it's his thing right. Well one thing too is for anybody that's watching in of course we'll say this several times during this stream if you're wherever you're watching this if you have questions you'd like to join the conversation just say hello please just drop us a line comment and we'll pick it up and see it. And then this I should also point out that this episode is being sponsored by techie gurus there's some logos behind us as we pop in and out oh there's Jonathan there we go at least we now have balance in the screen there so but he looks frozen yes he's phasing out there he is so he's on his old AOL dial up so it's a bit and he's got a new acronym there at the end. Congratulations. Thank you. All right well so so with that let's just jump into we've got a number of questions for folks that are new to the AMA format what we do in the recordings is generally have a spreadsheet of questions that were asked in various locations from members of the community and that we then go out there and we answer. Sometimes we walk through like the step by step but generally the goal here is not to just we're not replacing a blog post we're you know we're in the video format we're talking through and trying to hopefully explain some of the background of why this person might be having an issue some of the solutions for that other things that they might consider so it is hopefully complimentary to the fabulous blog posts that are out there that are answering some of these questions and sometimes all right there he is. So Mr. Christian do you want me to do the news first or yeah no we're going to start there I'm just giving I'm getting the setup for it okay all right all right I'm just checking it's not like you're just going to skip right over me no no no I'm going to pass him up yep okay. Chloe I love getting back to this unpolished anybody can see anything at any time format. I thought you said you were going to block Mike so this didn't happen. Hey hey hey there's there's time well we're doing this well why don't we do this. And don't forget the disclaimer statement. Oh I don't have that oh that's right oh you have to have a disclaimer we have to have a disclaimer where you know we don't nobody knows everything about everything and we're we're doing our best guessing some things I think there's enough people to make no. Well Christian knows everything about telephony so whatever you ask her he knows it. And azure. Yeah after this last one. Does anyone have teenagers ask them they know everything. Everything and we know nothing. I actually had to become Christian's personal IT support last week. Oh really? Oh yeah. As I pointed out though Mike provided value for the third time that I've known him though. So it's fantastic he showed so we actually appreciate that. Here's my little heart bubbles. We need that. Well why don't we do that. Let's kick things off with the news Mike. Yeah why don't we do that. So yeah this is the latest headlines from the teams at Microsoft I call them teams but sometimes they're just groups in their you know herds maybe you know a gaggle if you want to call it that. But what coming from the we're fussy like that Department of Microsoft comes the ability to decorate your own background in teams but it's only in teams premium. So in but you can add a video background in just regular teams. Now answer me this why would you give the ability for someone to change their background into a video but not give it any ability to decorate it. Is that a selling point is that something hey I'm going to pay for teams premium because I want to decorate my back background is that I'm asking anybody out there. No okay it just doesn't make sense to me. Microsoft goes and says it creates more personal and engaging backgrounds by applying advanced effects you know it makes no sense to me. So that's one of the departments I think should be kicked out but also from the same folks in that department comes a new meeting option and meeting policy called turn off copying or forwarding of a meeting chat again team premium only. Now riddle me this why in the world would you not make that a standard option in a collaboration suite. It's a new meeting option it gives meeting organizer the option to disable copying and sharing features on the meeting chat messages for participants in order to reduce the risk of data leak. So you're telling me that that data leak is only going to happen in teams premium it's not going to happen teams regular or standard no it's only going to happen in premium come on now really okay. All right so coming from the it must be an ID 10 T error department. Anybody knows what that is right okay the huge department. Yeah that's Christian's department by the way it comes from a known problem when launching random m 365 apps and getting the obviously incredibly informative error message of error something went wrong. Oops I love that one. I want that on a t-shirt. Ask your administrator I am the administrator that needs to be a t-shirt too I think. Ask one-on-one problem solving. Exactly and that's it that's all I got on that because to me it's just there's nothing more right they won't give you any more information I'm not going to give you any more either so there so the folks coming from the get off your ass and look outside department at Microsoft have decided to take away the weather as it is no longer displayed on the calendar in outlook for windows I guess they figured out that since we're all working from home we don't need to know what the weather is like outside so well there's always the first widget to go. But mine is on mine is on the taskbar in windows so maybe they're thinking it's redundant. Well what if you're running what if you're running outlook on Mac oh my gosh oh no no no say it isn't so. So we have a consortium at Microsoft now a consortium at Microsoft aptly named there ain't no Chinese chips here has stated that it by design that the concy radicals and four byte unicode characters are not supported in the caption of embedded files within powerpoint. What or who is a concy anybody know let me tell you I'm glad you asked the concy empire also known by his temple named ember shinsu of king personal name zhoyne was the third emperor of the king dynasty and the second king emperor to rule over china proper reigning from 1661 to 1722 so it's kind of like you know I don't know if you ever saw that movie called what was it PCA or PCU and it's like writing a a theses on hieroglyphics why you're writing a theses on something that is a 2000 year old language but who uses these characters in in in powerpoint really they need something to do they get paid a lot of money they need something to do um and finally I'll get this over with I'll stop the pain okay um from these are not the droids you're looking for it's it's actually a lunch pail group though this isn't really like a consortium or a department it's a just a lunch pail group you know they go to the mixer and they have their lunch um and it comes a statement about three severe teams outages that affected millions of users in the us in the last couple weeks now if you haven't heard about it obviously you don't use teams which is probably a majority of us um but some users may have been unable to access microsoft teams or some features the company says in an incident report this service health post is in response to some external customer reports and i'm reading obviously this verbatim will be updated for with further details as we confirm the service operational health but they follow that with the following true to form of microsoft never updated its service health page for the team's consumer service it just says everything is up and running nothing to see here move along was this like end of day friday when was that what that was in monday monday there was more issues yeah if you look around at parts of it it's still there are parts that are still horribly broke what horribly yeah that's yeah crazy the funny thing is if you put in a ticket they would tell you you should go read the the messages and i said yeah that went here first yeah that seems to be the thing go go read the all the everybody else's complaints and problems first and then come back to it but don't go to the status page how the status page no no no no no no no don't do that because that's always going to be green no matter what you do it's always going to be green okay that's just the way the lawyers want it so but that is it for me today christian thank you very much tip your waitresses and on with the show we don't have to tape here this is australia well we have it looks like we had hey neil showed up but although we hit our limit on this so uh hang on just a second i'm going to i know you want to kick me out all right all right i'm going to halt we've had enough mic very true there hey neil now we've got a whole list of questions where now we have official microsoft representation that means you have to be cautious about what i'm saying yes yeah no it's all all great well we we have a lot and we have this so this is where you know one of the the downsides to using the platform is we you know versus using teams and we were using teams throughout the pandemic for our live streams and neil was on a lot of those you know and so that you'd have that capacity and people could jump in in fact we even used like that what is it called the uh the the mode where you can have everybody looking like they're sitting in a oh yeah together mode it's a gather mode thank you yeah we do that once in a while too which is yeah you get tired of that view but uh yeah it was a benefit is you could have more people on and so we're restricted here so if you're not on screen you've got an answer just add it over into our our our comments there and we'll we'll have to uh we'll have to show some of the comments i've got like in dan who's showed up to his first of our recordings and uh yeah it's it's great to see everybody thanks for watching dan we'll have to get him in is we're gonna do this on a regular basis as well so we've got the spreadsheet that's out there i know some of you are in still making some comments we've got several questions that are out there so why don't we do this uh so if you're if you're grayed out if you're not on screen and you want and you've got a response to this just comment i'll grab that um from in the private chat uh and make sure that you're added um and then uh we'll we'll do our best over on the list but i want to start the conversation so the rest of you that haven't added your notes please go over look at the spreadsheet but the way for folks uh that are new to the the live stream how we do this new to the recordings one i guess i should put the banner up there if you are interested in the series they're all out on youtube and we have i think we've got a couple hundred videos now over the last couple years so we publish 10 to 15 per month uh and so plenty for new ones in january that are up there so go definitely go take a look at that out on youtube and please follow uh because uh i want more followers on there more i want more more get ahead more uh so why don't we start this uh with number 47 it is a share point topic so for the share point folks so uh all right everybody ready let's jump in with question number one and again if you're watching if you've got questions you want us to try and handle them um feel free to comment wherever you're watching from and we'll add you in so 47 eric says our management is hesitant about the cost associated with share point again i say what now i need to present a detailed roi analysis showing the benefits like improved collaboration document management and workflow efficiency how can i quantify these benefits to make a compelling case it's a pretty broad question neil go for it yeah so so cost versus the alternative right what are they what are they using today and what does that cost them um obviously with share point i'm assuming i'm assuming share point online um hopefully share point online and obviously there's a cost associated there license wise there's a cost associated there with each license plus storage plus so on and so forth but what are they doing today like what is there what is the differential between the prospective cost of share point online versus what they have today that will be my response to that as a question actually yeah and i think a natural place to start probing for those questions and i think we've all known people or small organizations that have taken the the best of those free apps that we might have out there available to us on the web of an evernote or some type of gmail based account or some other collection of these cloud services that are you know very low cost if no cost whatsoever and they can put together this package that gives them all the tools that they want in that tool set great but when they start to grow that out the complexity of managing all of those different apps becomes a bit different like think about the protecting the organizational assets now having that unified login having that established wall between what is work and what is not work and you start to get those small freebie apps so those testing class apps that aren't in like a microsoft offering or a google suite offering now you're introducing a high level of shadow it and that's something that some organizations will have no no tolerance for so i think it's it's very mature that you you assess return on investment for going to something like SharePoint but it's not going to just be file storage and news pages or page articles or whatever it's going to be the whole ecosystem that comes with it i'm sure others have a lot to say in this front but a very interesting question yeah so i i agree with this because i feel like they're putting themselves in a box only talking about SharePoint because you know they have different apps like they might be using SQL Server reporting services and other third party applications ERP systems and and other manual processes and these other applications and if they look at it from the bigger picture and then try to say okay we can bring it into one place connect them together automate it and then look at it from that picture and then like the cost of all those other apps that they're using for support maintenance licensing and look at it from that standpoint they're probably going to get a better case of where they are just to get started from all these environments down to one and then of course the resources that you need to manage all those environments versus bringing them into a Microsoft 365 world everything's a trade-off of time or money and i can tell you right now i'm trying to clean up a mess from a very small business where everything was kind of stored in all these different places and bring them together just for regulatory reporting and it's it's a nightmare it's you know several probably 100 hours trying to pull everything back together so architecting it correctly to begin with is the biggest thing but you know you're you're trading time for money and if you know that's the hardest thing to quantify though really how much time is saved how do you prove that and that's putting that on paper for though the number crunchers is a difficult task yeah in fact there's a comment and there's a comment coming in from linkedin about that you know ROI is about time is money i did a six sigma project on that many years ago just to quantify tangible versus intangible time and you know where are you now and where are you going so when we do a gap analysis and when we ever we want to try to figure out what ROI is on something we need to understand what pain is it causing us now why do we need to change because i think a lot of times people come in and say well i want to do this well why do you want to do it what is the pain and what is the the thing that you're suffering from right now that you want to go to something better and let's look at the difference of where are you here to where are we there and oftentimes what we find i think somebody even mentioned this you know if you're using all these other different tools and maybe you're spending money and maybe your stuff is stored in another place that you're spending money on that you're not thinking about part of the share point ROI that comes to light afterwards is all of that stuff is out there we're spending money on other places other subscriptions other infrastructure maybe even other employees that ultimately at the end of the day could fold in to then give you value in ROI against what you're paying for but i think until you know the full scope of what your pain is and where you're going from here to here you can't do a true ROI because you don't know what is it that you're changing from and to yeah and ultimately the thing that like you said the additional ROI once you get into the system think of excel people are managing automated processes in excel right now and they could import it to a share point list and automate that and save all kinds of time but those are things that come what once you're in there so your ROI will just continue to build once you get there right so from a from an end user perspective they're talking about that you know the collaboration and the document side of things and and i would often go in and go just on something as a simple process and then i've seen it where we've saved a team of eight people literally a day a week so when you look at that that was 52 days in the year in terms of staff cost on just good collaboration on a document through SharePoint so if you took that one day a week and you took that eight staff how much was it for eight staff in wages for that one day and look at it over 52 days for it ends up adding up so i said if you can save your staff even five minutes just to have things all in one place and together look at it how much as the you can go to HR and get the average on an income and you know you don't have everyone's income you can you can break it down and i've even used it where i've pulled together um you know sometimes recruitment agencies have or you can look online um have a look at what the average income is for a particular role and you can go how many people have i got that are AA's for example and you go okay we've got 20 and we've got you know seven that are senior leadership and we've got so you can break it down and i've done this with organizations in a spreadsheet and you go okay based on that income how many people how many hours on average um what's the average income and then go if we can save them five minutes just five minutes a day what does that equate to in income and then you can go from there and go okay look at it in terms of the the cost of the licenses and what's the gap in the difference between what we had before to what we have now and i found it just far outstrip even if it was just five minutes by bringing it all together let alone the benefits now microsoft have got on their adoption site some really good information there's ROI calculators that are actually online as well and on the adoption site you've got white papers and go and have a look at rishi's information around mocha so that will also really help you too so then there's some great ways to be able to do it and some great white papers out there once you have our automate sorry into the share point ecosphere you automate all of those processes automate your approvals automate reminders i have built for the finance department the procurement department that was in charge of the credit card increases and decreases when people travel they would call them last minute and say i'm at the hotel right now and my credit card won't work and so the the the p-card people had to jump on their computers get a hold of the bank up their limit or add hotel to their their account and then they have to remember once the travel is done to turn it all back off and so i built a process that the people can request it and then every morning the p-card department gets an email that says these are the things that need to be turned on or turned off in the next two days so they didn't have to put it on their calendars they didn't have to remember and they should not be getting random phone calls and messages those are easy to quantify right there especially the finance department will be able to quantify their own ROI Heather you were going to comment as well yeah kind of back to what christie was saying what christie was saying and sherry you were kind of touching on this too from from a time savings thinking of not just only productivity but that keeping everything in one place right so if everything is in share point that you don't have that app-to-app switching that context switching that's happening when you have that it takes longer for the person to get back into that where was i what was i doing that deeper focused work right so you have to think of it from that perspective too that that's harder to quantify than maybe like christie was saying like you know let's see you know how much money are we saving or what's the time and it versus you know the the return on investment the other thing is collaboration when we're touching on that as well the knowledge sharing so if we know that we have this one central place that we're going to to get that information or to share that information and now thinking about teams pretty much you know that's built on top of share point so and anything that we're doing in teams with our files and we've also got our communications and things happening there i know there's some other things that kind of tie into it too but the backbone of it is share point so if you're not investing in share point there's a lot of other things that get impacted by that as well but but i would say the two big four things for me is that that focused work and and knowledge sharing because if those files are somewhere that you know where they are but they're not accessible to the other people that need it when you're out on vacation or something else is happening uh or they don't know what decisions were made and how to find the progress of something in that list you know those are those are key things that can really help it's really is a huge topic you know we we could talk for an hours of webinars on this uh on this subject matter and it's because it's i think every one of the points have been made and it's not you're not just talking about share point you're looking at all of your business systems there's a lot of things so there's integrations there is the reductions of other third-party tools and other solutions so there's cost savings around that so there's a lot of different factors depending on the scope of the size of your business your goals kind of all of those factors feed into that um so you can't just look at a one to one technology replacement um you know we have an old intranet we're going to add this new intranet it's not the way to look at it well there's there's the next question i think is so slightly different topic here getting into the power platform which is popular with some people out there i guess all the cool kids yeah i i i suppose um su has a question she says i work in a company that provides field services and we're facing challenges in efficiently managing field reports and customer service requests i'm interested in developing a custom application using power apps that allow field workers to easily submit reports access customer information and update service statuses in real time can anyone provide insights into how to start building such an app additionally what are the key considerations for ensuring the app is user friendly especially for our staff who are not very tech savvy once again not a small question one suggestion i would make is to kick it off i've done this before um as a project and it was basically just using power automate along with microsoft forms and it's it's already integrated um you when you go to automate and you set up the app you can actually there's an option to include a microsoft form uh within the app and be able to design that form just like you would any other form um so that would be the place where they could you know actually fill out that information get updates on that information but then it goes you take the power app and you'd have to go back you'd have to have some kind of database back end or you know something that could correlate that data because you're going to have a lot of people that are going to be entering data so you would have to integrate maybe a azure sequel instance or you know even some kind of data lake or something to you know on on premises sequel i'm not sure how you would set it up but it can all be done through through the power apps you know power automate is part of it um but power apps is what really drives that so yeah well but isn't that dynamics isn't that the customer service it is but dynamics is a separate piece and dynamics actually costs a lot more money than power power apps does yeah i always wonder though it is is it worth it to have to develop how much it's going to cost you to develop plus that's a brand new yeah but dynamics is also a full crm right so you're not talking about something that does a specific task you're talking about something that can do like a thousand different things as a crm and i don't know if they want to go if they want to go that far absolutely but uh you know try and keep it simple i i would suggest using just power apps well i guess mine would start out let's let's document what the requirements are because do they even need power apps because i build a very similar thing of previously and i didn't even use power apps use power automate use microsoft forums share point lists they had tablets what is there there's a scenario we're missing they're ultimately saying i need to go to power apps i don't know if they do i think there's a whole lot more information and they need to start by building out the requirements what's in those forms then see with the tools that you do not have to do major development on does it fit the bill and then progress from there because i feel like they're just jumping into the deep side of the pool and kind of you know instead of waiting into that again this is one of those we need we need more information type of type of questions because i mean literally i don't know old school here um you could do all this in access so if you wanted to you could basically set up forms and access and do it that way so there's there's a hundred different ways you could slice it the difference between forms and power apps is whether or not you need interactivity if you just need to push information into the system then the form solution with power automate to you know to put it all into the right places and sharepoint is fine but if you need interactivity if you need to be able to look up existing ones as well then you're going to want to switch back to power apps on a canvas app um and i noticed in if if you want to go an extra step further and you don't want to have to use the power apps app on your devices um there is a new feature i want to say it's called rap maybe where it will save it to native ios and android apps that you can then put in the store and the end users can download onto their devices uh directly as their own app as well so all good information all good and reasonable possibilities are available from what all the speakers have said and it's all right uh but regardless of what tool or platform you're going to decide on you're going to need to have some type of data model that's more complicated than it really is that reflects the requirements that the users in the field are going to have to capture so i would suggest as a starting point do something very simple that you don't have to invest any time into power apps yet or any of the other solutions yet maybe use a microsoft list and just start to lay out what the right columns would look like just like you would in excel to match that require meet that requirement and there's some built in native capabilities inside of the list where you can update the form you can move the columns around to have a flow of the business process you can add dynamic rules you could do things that can grow with you but before you get into the tool to find the requirement the requirement should drive what that data model looks like regardless of the solution you go to you're going to have a place to store the data you're going to need a place to store the data so you need that data model so start with the data model and let that be the driver behind whatever you decide and there's you know time to maturity like today lists tomorrow power apps the year from now hey let's go dynamics so there's growth and there's opportunity through i haven't had any experience with it but would there be anything that comes with teams for frontline workers that would be a solution for this because that came to mind as christine you were describing what she was needing uh i don't know what teams for frontline workers won't allow you to do but if you can add a list as a tab or any other app that is built then you would think you'd be able to use that as your delivery platform but um internal to frontline workers like what the building blocks are i think they're just going to come in the teams apps that we we love and use every day yeah that's actually what i was thinking of you so if you use the dashboard with connect the connections that ties into teams we've actually done that for some of our clients where we've used that dashboard and put buttons that go to forums or information there just so that they can see it right there on their phone and it gives them exactly what they need they just click on the button do what they need to do and like norm was saying make it super simple where they can do something easily and then just kind of grow from there all right really long awkward pause love it for us too when we're recording the videos that's that's how we indicate okay we're all we've all set our piece we're good all right it's time to move on again we can keep talking but are we adding value all right let's jump to the next question so for those with the spreadsheet down to 52 so here we're going to split the difference share point and power platform talk about both in this one evan has a question our business has some unique requirements that the standard share point features don't fully address what yeah however developing custom solutions can be resource intensive how do businesses typically balance using out of the box features with the need for custom solutions what factors should be considered in making that this decision that kind of goes back to what we're just what I just said about the other one you really need to build something new if you can get 80% of what you need out of something that exists and maybe build the other 20 but yeah it's time or money you can move with an out of the box solution or 80% and move forward or you have to go back and gather those requirements and figure out what people need and following up on that how much money do you have and how much do you have that should answer that question and do you have the resources to do it yeah yeah and there's a lot of plug and play solutions out there from third party suppliers you know sometimes you can find something that's really simple that will do it for you without having to build a ton of personalized content and you know start researching and the cost benefit of doing that yeah what are you trying to do for the job right yeah I'd also add like from the SharePoint perspective make sure you're familiar with the roadmap because some things that people are asking for like as a PM in the SharePoint world there's a lot of things people are asking for that are they're on the roadmap and they're in the pipeline right they're gonna come so make sure that you you're not you're not spending money building custom solutions when we already have something that's on the way and you have to share that with us now she can tell us all about the roadmap I'll share the public roadmap I can give you a link to you guys are all MVPs you know where the you know where the other roadmap is but like things like your SharePoint premium for example right there's a whole ton of features and capabilities and experiences coming down the pipeline with SharePoint premium that we've never shipped before so I think this whoever asked this question didn't specifically mention what they were looking for but I think experience understand the roadmap understand what what it is you're trying to do and to other folks comments right third parties provide solutions there's there's there's usually a way to solve a problem without just sitting on the shelf and waiting for it or or investing like a massive amount of money just to make it happen there's so many ways so many there's multiple ways to skin skin that cat as we say right well this is it we're going back to you know the first question we addressed the ROI and and figuring that out is is you know what are you trying to do that sometimes you know what's the value that's what's what's the gap in the functionality what's the value of buying an off-the-shelf third-party solution today until the features come out in the future with Microsoft and then and then other questions like is well if Microsoft with out of the box or with some you know minor automation give me 80% of what I need is that is it enough of a difference for me and the cost difference well that I'm already paying for with Microsoft 365 that it doesn't make sense to go and buy the other thing so what is that value what is the opportunity cost of not moving forward today with another solution versus you know waiting for that functionality to be there with Microsoft or going and building that so there's a lot of those factors it's just back again to that ROI and once you've defined what you're wanting to do then you can define what tool makes sense if you're trying to use power apps because you don't like the single column SharePoint form well maybe you don't need to go all the way to power apps you can just throw some JSON in the form and and give it a little bit better layout maybe a little bit of extra functionality if you don't like the list view so you're using a share or you're using a power apps gallery to make the list view different again maybe a little JSON grab a Chris Kent video change your list view to look like what you want it to look like and you've saved yourself a lot of time and a lot of maintenance and one of the things that hasn't come up as we've been talking about this and you mentioned you know being able to look at the roadmap and going out there to see because I always try to recommend to people if it's coming maybe don't make it yourself what I have notices over the last year or so Microsoft has introduced a lot of customer engagement programs that didn't exist in the past so if you're a business that is trying to make these decisions before you know there was a lot of these for these large enterprise businesses they're building more and more of those programs for smaller medium sized businesses if you're interested in a specific feature set reach out to a partner or an MVP or somebody that you know that might be affiliated with Microsoft and see if potentially there is a customer engagement program that you could participate in because two things happen one you might get the opportunity to use that feature earlier and second you can provide feedback that can influence what that feature does or how it goes forward which means that you're going to get more out of it and potentially maybe even get to do that for a lot cheaper than it would cost you to build it yourself yep all right I do want so I want to go back in the comments and Jackie had a question I'll post it up on the screen here is where we're back when we were talking about SharePoint first time is Copilot going to take over SharePoint a couple comments here Jackie one there's no hyphen in Copilot it's just the word I mean that that is akin to spelling SharePoint with a lowercase p so just be aware of that Jackie I don't want people just judging you you're asking a valid question out there the second thing I would add is yes it's taking over the world it's everything it's everywhere so yeah so I don't know if anybody else wanted to add some thoughts around this I know that Sean also commented about the cost and how you know answered that a little bit but yeah there's there's a lot that's happening in that space and I know we've got a let me see if on our list I think we're gonna no we're not covering Copilot on this we've had there are a couple of questions what there's a live stream with no Copilot topic are you kidding well we can talk refreshing I'm just for me well you know what we're gonna add it in it wasn't highlighted it's next now let's do it let's uh so we're gonna we're gonna do it now um yeah so and see Stephanie asked the question now this this kind of will go into some of what Jackie was asking Stephanie says Microsoft announced new personal pricing for Copilot and also lowered the number of users required for the enterprise edition I'm still not sure of the differences between versions but the real concern is how Copilot interacts with older versions of office do we need to be on the latest versions of all software to take advantage of Copilot it's a great question so Karawana and her team yesterday did a whole live stream on and a presentation on the different SKUs and the purposes and the you know which license for what there's personal Copilot there's the enterprise Copilot you know and it was very informative I thought it was a really good clear kind of model of which what to expect from which one if and you know the fact that the personal one doesn't leverage any enterprise level you know the Copilot model is not being fed by business information it's being you know that's within your security for your tenant and there was a lot of questions about that it's like you know if we turn on Copilot for our business are you using that for the people out in the the rest of the world to feed and teach your model and they're like no they're separate just like you have two separate logins for the personal Microsoft accounts which are like your outlook MSN all those accounts versus your enterprise accounts that that same security wall exists for the data so it I believe it was recorded I'll see if I can find the link for that but it was a very very good clear session and demystified a lot of things for me personally because I had the same question the when you read the documentation about the minimum requirements for Copilot you do need to be on the I think it's called the current channel or the current release for the office 365 apps so like the app the desktop apps physically need to get updated to have like Copilot tooling in it so yes you have to have the licensing you have to go from 0365 to M365 yeah okay then once you have that then you can then you can go for the Copilot license and if the apps are an issue then you you can use the the cloud versions of the applications it still has Copilot functionality inside of it yeah and just to just to add to something Shira was saying right about the segmentation even in the enterprise version the data that you'll see or the Copilot will use to assist you when you're when you're generating content or asking questions it respects all of the permission models all of the things like labeling all of the information barriers so if if if norm for example was to make a query in a tenant that we shared and I'd information barrier protected some data from from a group that he was in that data would not be used to form the result of the response that he would he would ask the question for so it's very very very very well segmented in that space the key here too around this and this is where governance comes in is it respects permissions it doesn't respect views so if if there have been people that have been using they can't see it so they don't have access as permissions they may be in a world of hurt when they go to use Copilot because it will present information to them that maybe they didn't know is there so this is a good opportunity for people to go out and look at their permissions and make sure that their permissions are set up properly so putting my microsoft hat on sharepoint premium over sharing right over sharing that the new things that we're releasing with sharepoint premium i'm not a salesman but just go look at that the over sharing links and the over sharing features we have in there and the advanced management dashboards will help you in this space taking my salesman half right now yeah these are good things to be talking about for an organization that is investing all of their information assets into a platform like SharePoint office 365 it is important to to know that you might have over shared content that you might have things that are not governed the way that you expect it but let's not forget a lot of us a lot of organizations rush to the cloud when the pandemic hit some shortcuts in a traditional governance sense had to have been taken so now's a great time to clean up it's never too late it's not about fear mongering there's probably more opportunity with copilot than people realize for personal productivity so i think it's a good thing that people are willing to consider their exposure i remember when delv was first i first experienced delv and i could see things that i had no idea i had access to but it was a great opportunity to start remediation and i think copilot is going to do that for a lot of organizations well yeah the over sharing reports and the advanced sharing reports in the it was previously syntex now sharepoint advanced management definitely worth a look um they'll they'll definitely um help any organization understand where their sharing is getting out of control i use those tools as part of a like a quarterly maintenance assessment for clients so that they have an understanding that things are being shared that shouldn't be and you know who they're shared with so i love those and we're adding we're adding a whole bunch of new features to that over the next kind of quarter so watch out for those one thing i do know is don't wait until you've done all your data remediation and clean up and all those things because people are constantly putting information in you're never going to be able to sweep everything under the rug it might get exposed you just got to do constant work get started do it right now and see what's broken and fix it because if you're gonna wait you'll never get there garbage and garbage out right investing governance just investing governance now i'm training around it and what does that look like with security training and sharing and you know get your end users on the journey teach them how to use it so you can get a return on your investment because you know i've seen it where if they're just doing even some of the basics they were getting a little stuck so you're just yeah you're just going to need to invest a little bit of time on top of it and then you're going to get a lot out of it in terms of your productivity from the end user let alone all of the technical side of it and the benefits it's going to bring look at the ROI we're all we're identifying for these past questions had to add myself back to the stage to be able to speak up and move on to the next question welcome back well i think he was taking a break i think i was going to say i think he took a break well i've got a so a couple more uh share point questions and then we'll jump into we've got an azure question here come on wow really you know if there's any other i just like dan's uh comment about i'll put it up again about delv if you didn't see that one well there's the other one is the common question how do we turn it off yeah then is this question is it going to go from how do i get co-pilot to how do i shut it down like we need a betting pool for how fast it's going to go from one to the other well it's already coming up i mean the the whole question this is a different topic and we don't have a question around it but it's around governance around co-pilot so you have a lot of people that are out there a lot of companies that are coming up with like guidance and here's the dirty little secret everybody it's the exact same stuff you should have been doing to clean up your data 20 years ago it's all still relevant it's the yes there are some new assets and new products there's sensitivity labels there's kind of all the new features that are out there but it's it's about metadata management permissions and information architecture can we can as daniel said you know securing labeling data and even having different data repositories where it can't even pull from and you go that's a whole different that sits in another like maybe even another tenant we go that all is there highly confidential doesn't get pulled in no matter what and separate your data if you need to can we can we clarify something that it bothers me a little bit because this came up in internal conversations with the company co-pilot is just one piece of AI right um microsoft owns open AI did nobody knew that guess what you know that now which i would be surprised if you didn't know that but it's only one model it was a couple models but it's it's only a piece of it there's a hundred different AI providers out there building their own models you know you see berkeley has their own stanford has their own you know google has their own you know so it's not just we focus on co-pilot but users could be using any one of these and it's a matter of where that data is coming from because some models are restricted some are not and what i mean by that is co-pilot can be as tame as you want it to be right but if they introduce something into the organization that is not as tame as co-pilot then they are running risks right they now they could be getting bad data now they could be putting out bad data they could be putting out data you know they could be at risk this is something that has to be really well thought out and people aren't doing that i mean companies are just putting in a you know allowing people to use chat gpt and use you know mid-journey whatever just because hey it's really cool and we want to do that well they don't vet and verify so everybody's just like i go out on the internet and i search for something i'm like oh that's the truth because it's on the internet it's got to be true that don't think that that and now you're bringing that into your business world too and people don't do their due diligence to make sure what they're bringing up you know the content that they're bringing in is actually valid and current and just be using it as a crutch that's my biggest fear with you know that kind of that laziness that people have come up but they don't have their own governance around it either they're just kind of letting it come in and you know there's there's no there's no there's no guardrails there's no rules yeah yeah and and Mike sherry i want to add to that so i'm i'm as as you know i'm microsoft right so microsoft hatton um i'm in in the middle of a project right now which is very heavily ai focused as you can imagine a lot of our a lot of our new features and new capabilities we're trying to drive ai as being the primary kind of um enabler if you like for a lot of us a lot of those capabilities i i can't begin to tell you um the level of uh governance that we go through right even for one simple feature um we already announced this at night last year so i'm not gonna i'm not i'm not over speaking right simple things like metadata extraction from existing documents and contracts we already announced that um but the level of governance that we put around that and the the guardrails around responsible ai it's such a huge piece of work that every product team has to go through if you want to implement any kind of ai into a microsoft product and it's it's to the point where the the pms and the engineers are so frustrated right we just want to get the job done but we're really really really focusing on responsibility right it's all about responsible ai and doing things the right way that that's something that's really been you know uh it's been great to see uh there there was a there was a online conversation a couple months back about how in fact there's a blog post by the mvp uh to find it's a fantastic blog post where he he basically says you know microsoft has a history it's a cycle of pumping something out there that's not quite ready has it been thought through from a governance and administrative standpoint and that it it presents opportunity opportunity to the partner community around that that's refined so they're it's innovating it's getting faster and faster but with that over time it's like especially around um co-pilot microsoft was very upfront at helping lead the discussion around the ethics of ai and the need for governance and the adoption site is much quicker to have that or have some of this content have to be leading the discussion uh right up front right on day one of the announcements around these pieces so like i feel like like microsoft has learned that lesson um we talked about when share point was released we often talked about the fact that it's like the share point community is as robust as it is as connected it's because there was no documentation there was no help it was something where uh i used to joke like no not everybody knows everything about share point is like yeah but there's a list of people that i know that this happens when microsoft product team members uh the share point team had questions about their product they would call these external people and we know their names we know who they are most of them mbps uh it really is um it's great to see that microsoft is being more thoughtful around lessons learned uh around the solution it doesn't mean that all the functionality all the features are there to manage all of those things up front but they're aware of those gaps this is my perception at least i don't know if somebody has a different oh no it's the same thing i i i agree with you because and and i'm again perception is you know what i'm going off of here is microsoft is not the only company that does this they release beta and they call it production so i'll give you an example co-pilot for windows 11 new outlook when when co-pilot for windows 11 came out it was beta okay it was it would fail half the time whenever you would ask it something it wouldn't know an answer to but they're using the consumer as their testers uh that's why you have windows 11 insiders edition that's why you have the windows server insiders that's why you have azure insiders the people that want to be you know they that microsoft is allowing to our office insiders allowing to test this stuff for them um and uh be able to provide the feedback but also fix what is broken so it's the same thing with ai they released it but in my opinion they released it early too early um but i think that's with any ai because now you have every every corner mom and pop corner store is going to start having their own ai um and it won't necessarily be uh you know factual or it won't always be you know legitimate so that's my take on it once again coming back from we got a full back stage i have to i have to pull somebody off the stage to be able to get back on the stage here but um well i know that we're gonna we've got a couple sharepoint questions to jump to so great discussion let's uh look at number 69 here lenka says hi i'm a beginner and i need advice on how to create an organizational structure in sharepoint uh and she is a beginner because she spelled sharepoint with the lowercase p so we know that's true i i tried power apps uh but i don't know much about it and when i create an application from sharepoint data i don't know how to upload it it back to sharepoint thanks for the advice i'm serious what a power app sharepoint architecture would look like but that's just me um why sharepoint though why not using beaver and gauge we can go better questions you know you can mark it you can have that feeding into your sharepoint side well that that's the next question can you define my question is it the org chart is she saying like i need an org chart that's yeah that's good for people or they're trying to do an org chart for like they're organized right i think they're trying to organize or do i need a person reporting structure she's yeah she's to me because it says an organizational structure in sharepoint like she wants to display the organizational structure of the organization so my question is have you seen the web part called org chart um to a lot of people um you can use search to build um you know different different things like corporate directories and have filters and based off the departments and stuff i'm pulling from you know your different features um within you know that from your profile like your manager that's how you essentially build your org chart but you can do that for corporate directories and all that kind of stuff so there's a lot of things that you wouldn't need to go custom development to do to pull the org chart information now to make it pretty you probably need a you know someone who's a little bit of a designer to help make it look pretty but just to pull the data it's technically already there well i put a link in the um comments in the spreadsheet for the visio org chart yeah so you can extract it out to excel and i've used that to to plan org like the whole architecture of a sharepoint environment it doesn't have to be used to create an org chart it's just a way to create related um hierarchies within your organization so if they want to use that it just is she trying to create architecture is she trying to create a you know an actual like you know reporting structure with people or the org chart of a company yeah and and if you want something that's pretty that's already pre-built there is one out there on github that i've seen probably a couple of it by this time because it's been a while there are some org charts already built that already look pretty that you can you can bring in well no org chart is built into sharepoint if if if your active directory is properly populated yeah if your manager's fields are correct you get good data but um yeah could could you do a flow that came from from there dropping into visio and the visio part dropping into sharepoint and do it could you do that can't say i've played with it but sharepoint uses or visio uses excel to create the yeah and you kind of have to refresh it so you could create the you could create it in an excel workbook and then use that as the data source um for visio anyway if that's what they're looking for but yeah and um yeah you could get super fancy and use the graph and then use power on them and you to grab from the graph and then use the connector and then link it in and then dump it into somewhere and then present that in visio maybe have a data for a data verse you can export it out to excel and create a visio chart and publish it once a week or something so many things you could do but um but yeah i don't feel like we have all the information there or it's not very clear to give her i don't think she wants to i don't think she wants an org chart she wants someone to tell her how to organize her sharepoint like how how do i make sites and site structures and lists and libraries and where do i put them and yeah how do i organize my company's sharepoint architecture i think that's that's what makes sense if you read the first sentence if you read the rest she tried to build a power app to do this and she wouldn't build a power app to set up a sharepoint architecture well this folks is why it's important to uh when when you're asking for help and for guidance out on a forum somewhere is to put a little more detail and explain the scenario what you're trying to do is because you know so often like this one i when i my first reading too i saw i was kind of divided on is it a sharepoint architecture question or and i as i read on i went the same conclusion like she's talking about org charts and now like there are third party solutions there's the org you know the the the app i mean there's there's multiple options you can go build something that's out there but it this would be great if we could follow up with uh lenka and ask you know uh some other questions but yeah we we can't yeah i was with i was with the architecture thing at first until i read the next sentence and i was like nope she really means an org chart so i still iffy can i say that i have so much oh i'm sorry jonathan you i didn't hear you sorry i i think the second question's unrelated and showing that she's new to sharepoint she also through sharepoint tried to create a power app and didn't know how to put the data back from power out back into to sharepoint which is either a submit button on a forum a patch statement on fields or something of that general nature maybe even a power automate flow if you want to get fancy that's how i reconciled the difference is uh how do i structure my stuff in sharepoint and also i tried from power apps i'm brand new and i didn't understand what to do i'm asking for two pieces of help in one question possibly the norm you were gonna add something i have a lot of empathy for for lenka and people in lenka's question our position excuse me conceivably she's just trying to get to an end result making an org chart presumably she's working in hr and this is part of their ongoing responsibilities and then they're going to use the tools that they have at their disposal well i'm in sharepoint i have a sharepoint site i have a list there's that power apps button let's let's create a way and then you end up going down this the slippery slope of god help the port person in hr trying to learn power apps when they don't need to having to go through all these solutioning can you imagine being in hr and then someone like blasting all these questions at you about power this and power that and azure this and azure that and it's like it's ridiculous it's like it's it's really hard for just a normal user trying to get their their job done and this is where you know all the people on this call we this is what we can see hopefully are doing and we you know advocate for the users try and map out a requirement to a solution that is something that they're capable of doing and as a recovering hr professional covering a completely relate to this this you know every time somebody got hired you know promoted over and i was the person that i had that had to maintain that org chart and publish it and print it and post it and email it and yeah i don't you can tell i don't miss being an hr you drink a lot during those days didn't you i i have i mean potentially there's another solution if they have visio the desktop client there is a way for you to do a custom import so they can connect to a share point foundation list so they can connect to a site and just import the data there and then work with whatever shapes they want to work within the org chart or work with a specific template that they already kind of have set up that they like and visio and then just bring that data in and you have it assigned to those shapes and and you're good to go so i think there are if we take it back to the basics of maybe not having to work with power apps or power automate or some of those other things as we were saying like that might be too too complex for for really what the need is here visio go to that data ribbon look at your custom import choices it could be an access database it doesn't necessarily have to be an excel workbook that you're bringing in you've got i think more flexibility there and also from the learning resources that you have available to you online we're asking more questions here of us to help you along the way to we have some visio mvps we could of course reach out to and get some answers also if you need it i think that that might be a quicker way to get you up and running and then also for managing it down the road right because as you have changes having to go back in and change that automate the power automate flow or change power apps or whatever you're using that might be a little bit more complex too so i mean i don't know if i've missed a little bit maybe i missed the point here but um for an organizational chart and maybe the question was trying to say how do i build an entire organizational chart like top to bottom and display it and show it out but there's tons of features in sharepoint and teams that already will show organizational features right in teams you can right click on a person and show organization and see those details and i'm trying to understand and like i say maybe i missed something but i'm trying to understand how what's the actual scope of the ask here is it to show like the entire organizational chart like top to bottom several levels deep in one go i think that's what we're assuming i mean without being able to ask follow-up question because that was my thought was that you know if you're the danger of building an external solution whether you build your own automation or you use a third-party solution you're pulling it outside of that to be able to go in and structure the organization move pieces maybe you're doing a reorg and you want to be able to see all the pieces and move things around yeah you're it's it's then dead to the live system and that you know ideally you have something that you're you're viewing that information you're making changes there in the system not outside the system so you're not having to do a whole bunch of other work to bring those changes back in yeah just leverage leverage the profile services that we have right there's there's not only a ad there's spod s which will give you the option to like we have dotted line scenarios and we can you can take an individual user and you can see their dotted line connection to their manager and so on and so forth so that yeah that there's a whole all the data is there it's right to the folks that were speaking prior to me it's just a case about how do you build the canvas that displays the information if they want something more complex than what we have already well let's um so the next question is you know and again i i think this is one of those where some follow-up questions with lanka i think we'd go a long way but i think we've talked a lot about it we've got another share point question i want to make sure we have time for got two more questions that to handle so christine says i am trying to add a share point communications feed on my site where employees can post questions and have one of the site owners respond to them like a community forum the goal is a learning page where everyone can read questions and answers give it yeah this was this was my pet question for this set i think um definitely use the sharpest tool for the job you know people tend to focus on whatever tool is new or um special to them and share point is not always the answer yes share point communication sites are great but that's not the tool that was meant to be a forum um that's what yammer now known as we've engaged for so you can you can connect those two they're completely integrable so you can bring your feed from being engaged into with share point sites you can centralize it but that was the whole point of what yammer was the differentiator between yammer teams and share point at that when they were originally released was yammer was supposed to be building communities and giving people that opportunity and having that moderator that can field the questions and answer them and decide who can field the questions and who can answer them but it doesn't mean it has to live just to be engaged or you know what again what used to be called yammer bring it into share point so if that's where they're working or bring it into teams if that's where they're working you want to you know store and use the right tool but surface it where people are most productive and that's what i answered in the last one because i kept reading the questions did the wrong one i heard you heard it you listed out and then i read the next one too you just get it you went above it you just like you know i've already moved on from this yeah it's it's a uh and i know this is a topic that we've discussed with our recordings um through this series uh is that you know mic microsoft has really tried to move at the share point organizations tried to move away from this idea of uh you know share point as a swiss army knife and it can be anything that you want it to be like can you go and build a solution that does those things uh using share point yes but why not go use the tools that were built that were designed for this that is that it's integrated fully in i mean what the other side too is that there's a reason why that uh viva engage formally yammer we keep saying that it's like x or twitter i just like refer to his twitter it's okay because nothing ever gets rebranded right renamed rebranded but maybe people don't realize yammer is now viva engaged i still have the yammer t-shirt thank you very much i wear it proudly but before the rebranding yammer numbers were adoption numbers were going up and the cause of that i believe is uh entirely because of the deeper integrations with outlook and primarily with teams so the fact that you can have a unified experience with all these pieces like it viva engage is perfect for this scenario this is a core thing and i i've shared again yammer stories from years ago that are this exact issue where i was with a company that was acquired uh and the first all hands they were trying to answer questions that people sending emails we had multiple offices that were doing a live stream and i just like like what are we doing like do do we not have a yammer viva engage account log in everybody shared the link and people started asking questions and then answering them in real time and we would flag to the live speaker hey there's a question that came through on yammer that asked this and then we would capture the the response and add it in six eight months later we acquired another company had another all hands went through and were answering questions for those employees people like i came late to the all hands and realized people were already in yammer and accessing the questions the same questions pointing redirecting people to that and adding to the the knowledge base then that i mean it's it's perfect for that solution one of the good things about viva engage is it is literally about creating a learning organization i mean you got the social aspect but it's about flattening the lines of the business and you know when it comes to viva engage and you think about you know the team is about your teams it's about working as a team it's a group whereas viva engage is actually about the organization and it's and it brings everyone together so if you don't know who to ask and you know rather than doing a all distribution list in in mail which is not what you want to do it's in viva engage that you can put in information ask questions to the organization where the other people can actually tag to answer and it's not just about one person to answer so you know if you're thinking of your sharepoint site and you've got a community is it you only want you know 10 people managing that sharepoint site that are going to answer those questions or do you want the organization answering questions and that's where you come in to being a learning organization because you open it up as a community that's what it's designed and built for is that flattening of the business and providing the opportunities of if you don't know who to ask ask the business so and that's that's kind of why we really get in and use it i i think the best analogy that people can relate to is that like chat is you and i sitting at our desk or texting each other teams is like that cube farm everybody kind of working there in that space yammer is kind of two things or what's viva engage it's like the break room where there's the bulletin board and you can post things and people can consume and here's what my cat ate today a hero shirt with everybody i've got photos for me it's kind of like facebook yeah or or it's the auditorium where you have the town hall and everybody can come by so you know if you kind of think of it that way you don't want to have um you know in your teams these all company teams drive me crazy because it's too much information from too many channels coming in one place space and overwhelming everybody that's what yeah engage slash yammer was for and not having those all company teams i just like sharing the fact that at a few years back when they announced that all company channel in teams at the mvp summit so you had a very packed room about 200 microsoft mvp sitting in that room and when they announced that feature they got booed by the entire audience and people were like mvp we were upset we're like like that's not the way that you use teams and so we like we got it and i i think microsoft went and developed that feature because there were very large clients that were demanding it and i think it was the wrong thing to do or i mean look you know what i don't care have it out there i just never i like i don't look to that i stay away from those conversations i participate in the chats in the in the teams the channel conversations that are relevant to the work that i need to do i rarely go in because i never find any you know relevant information in those all company channels and that's a problem people tune it out just like they've tuned out email because they're just overwhelmed by it and they there's not those focused channels of things that they can visit when they need to know something and they're missing the big announcements that are like well it went out in the all company channels like ew i turned that out i tuned that out months ago you know and yeah it i know all of you that do architecture sitting here shaking your head at those all company channels just like i do hey hey sherry just from a personal perspective i my team work on that so i'm going to reach out to you and just to have a conversation about that if that's okay oh absolutely all right one last question to tackle here and this was just because you know hopefully we can answer it pretty quickly here min says hi all i have a question about azure can external users a guest user log in to the azure portal i mean i'm assuming like you're my azure portal how can we enable guest users to log into azure portal or is it not possible thanks a lot was that for me i'm sorry i fell asleep we were answering so many point questions i did add your name to this but uh uh so yeah like just goes off just goes off a little bit um yes absolutely there's this thing called lighthouse um and it actually allows uh from a management perspective because i'm assuming if you want to give somebody access to your azure portal um you want to do it from a administrative or management perspective why you would give it to the average user access to your portal i do not know but you can do that as well because you can give them access to the portal as you know depending on what role you assign and they will have limited visibility depending on what their role is in antra or azure ad as you know the new antra so if you're looking at from a management point of view um or you know you want to manage it for multiple groups um or something like that i would take a look at lighthouse um but also you know if you want to you could do it directly from from antra as well the one other scenario you know again a question from in on on this is that you know like what are you trying to do what are you trying to accomplish yeah like i just said this was you know with another hoster was doing a migration needed to give them access and so there's actually a well they have an avenue then if they're if they're an actual msp then they have an avenue to get to to you add them and to your account and they have an avenue to do that if they're an actual microsoft you know msp um right that's going through the lighthouse scenario so that's another scenario and i was gonna say like and what i did which was see there's actually a button on there for for my database which could uh generate the uh the permissions the access to like i shared ftp access yeah but that's not that's not true for all of azure so depending on what they want to ask that's what i said depending on what you're trying to do there are different ways of of providing that level of access yeah and i i would go so far as to say that do they actually need access to the portal um because i would want to know what they're doing they you could give them a shell you can give them a cloud shell you can give them you know something else that has you know you have more control over um you know you even have the azure desktop app uh you know do you actually want them inside of of that so those are you know we need more information um depending on what they what their intention is and what they want to do yeah i'd absolutely build a max max comments there um azure i think as a as a portal and as a platform is probably the most mature microsoft product that has role-based access control i'd agree with that yep and that's entra and yeah that's entra and on and access to all of the all of the functionality that so to mic's point right what what are they trying to do what are they trying to manage if you're going to give some access to your portal it's there's obviously an intent behind that reason right so what are they trying to achieve and typically with with with entra role-based access control is the right way to do it um and then you can build on top of that and even include things like you know um you you can you can include time-based access just in time access there's a whole bunch of things you can do but i think it's fundamental for this particular question what is the objective what is the intent for the user that they're trying to grant access to the portal yeah and there is a microsoft employee i can go to our microsoft portal but there's a million things i cannot do right right and i don't know the right role one other option i i need to point out though is also something they call b2b and b2c so there are options there as well so if it is a business partner that you're talking about um that you want to give access you know to certain aspects of your of your azure infrastructure they have inside of on entra they have b2b and b2c options which you should really consider exactly what was that like where we are at the end everybody i'm playing us out by the way pretty well thank you so much everybody for participating in this is great to do this and now we're going to try and do this more regularly um thank you mr buckley it might even be monthly and i know if we do it monthly not everyone will get to participate at the same time i realize that and then we won't have this issue like right now but we don't have it's pros and cons of not getting to see jonathan on screen no and me too well i'm glad i made it it's been a while yeah see you all again thank you for being here and we'll see you in the next one take care bye folks see you