 Who are the admins on? Okay, we're going to start from the next session. So make it look too long to take your seats. And we will continue on with Debbie Kennedy. So, Debbie is a member of ISO. She also runs the very popular Druze News blog, and is older than two books, DNA and Social Networking and the Stern X Handbook. She is Honoring Research Association Department of Genetics, Evolution and Environment at University College, London. And today Debbie is going to talk to us about the full result of DNA and how to make the most of it. So please give her one welcome for Debbie Kennedy. Good morning everyone. Can you all hear me at the back first of all? Okay, that's good. Okay, I'm going to be doing a run-through this morning of some of the basic support of so-called DNA. But I'm going to be looking at some of the basic concepts so that you have an understanding and you don't go off in a wild goose chase tracing and trying to make connections that just aren't there. And I'm also going to be looking at some of the tools that you can use that will help you with your research. Now, all the slides for my presentation I've put up on Dropbox. So if you want to take a photograph of that link you can then go and have a look at the slides. Any links that are in the slide you can then click from the PDF file and go and read up a little bit more on the subject. A few more cameras still going. Okay. So it's actually a very, very exciting time to be a genetic genealogist at the moment because the market has just suddenly exploded in the last few years. This is my estimate of the number of people who've taken the DNA test for any reason. And I reckon that there are now something like nine million people who've tested but eight million of those people are actually in the matching databases. And genetic genealogy is all about going into a database, finding matches with your cousins and then going back and doing the genealogy and working out how you're connected. So the bigger the database the more chance that we have of success. So I started back in 2007 when DNA was almost a dirty word. We had to try and encourage people to take a test in person. It's a bit like the old days with computers where genealogists were afraid of getting up there. Genealogists who didn't want to use computers because they look like their car index files but I think now we're at the stage where every genealogist realises that he has to use DNA testing as a tool to help you with your research. Now one word of warning we have to be prepared for all the unexpected with DNA and that is particularly the case now that we have these large databases nine million now in five, ten years time we could be looking at databases of 80 million 100 million people so essentially no one can now conceal any secret relationships all these family secrets are now coming to the fore whether you like it or not. So here's one example this man took a DNA test sorry this woman took a DNA test and discovered that she had a half sibling that she knew nothing about and his half sibling he was adopted as a child he was born in London in the mother and baby home given up for adoption at the age of six months and has resulted in his DNA test he found this sibling and then discovered also that he had eight other siblings so from one DNA test suddenly he's got a whole new family nine siblings that he knew nothing about and another fascinating story this came from America a woman who thought she was half Irish American took a DNA test and there was no percentages that indicated Irish and she was half Ashkenazi Jewish and this was actually the most incredible story probably only about one in a million charts but it turned out that her father when he was born was born in a hospital and two babies were mixed up in the hospital the Jewish parents went home with the Irish baby and the Irish parents went home with the Jewish baby now that's not going to happen to everyone but I can guarantee that everyone in this audience there are at least going to be a couple of people who are going to get surprises from DNA testing how many people here have actually taken the DNA test? that's really impressive so virtually everyone in the audience and how many of you have tested who has taken all to take the DNA test? virtually all of you and how many have tested with Ancestry? how many have tested with Family Tree DNA? and how many look for Tutti Frim Mini? my heritage? living DNA? I'm really impressed we've got a very genetic genealogy savvy audience here today I wanted to mention the genetic genealogy standards I recommend everyone who has a read of these because these help to guide us first of all on what to expect from DNA testing but also how we actually share DNA results with people and the more people we have in the database it's very important that we protect the privacy of the people in the databases we don't give out the names of matches without consent anything that's private information to you from your match list should not be shared publicly a lot of people do get carried away with their results in their enthusiasm they want to start sharing everything but you have to do that with consent so we now have a stage where we have five different testing companies and I like to think of it rather like computers at one time we only have one way of accessing the internet and when we first started out we had one computer for the whole house we all had to take our terms now we have everyone has a lovely desktop and a laptop you might have a tablet or a phone we've got lots of different ways of accessing the internet and now we've got lots of different companies offering DNA testing all having their pros and cons but as we've seen here it helps to test with a number of different companies and if you're looking to find a chance match if you're trying to connect with you actually you went to America for instance you don't know which company they tested with so you have to be in all the databases they're a pro at them Anastasia have the largest database now but they've been testing in Ireland for much much longer and they've also been doing a wide DNA testing in Ireland right from the year 2000 so you will find people in the family tree DNA database that you simply won't find anywhere else some people who've passed away couldn't possibly test elsewhere and I would say that any series genetic genealogist has to be at least in the Anastasia DNA family tree DNA databases and just to show how the market's expanded the two new entrants they only started they only launched back in the autumn last year so that's really a good sign that the market is starting to take off so it depends on what you want to get out of the test there are certain different things to consider I'll be going through some of these as we go on with the talk now transfers is one of the important points of error in mind if you test with Anastasia you can do a free transfer to find the tree DNA you have to pay $19 to unlock restable matches but Anastasia changed her new chip back in I think it was June last year and anyone who's tested on the new chip with transfers they now do not get speculative matches so that means that 90% of your match list is not there if you do the transfers so I think there are some advantages in having at least one family member to make sure you've got one family member who's done a full test of family tree DNA and my heritage of the other company will also accept transfers so if you do a free transfer they've not yet got their matching system sorted out so I wouldn't rely on many of their matches but it's worth at least being in there once they've got that sorted out because they're particularly good on other European countries they've got the website set up in lots of different languages so that should help to grow the database in other countries but you can't do transfers into Anastasia or 23nb living DNA is supposed to be accepting transfers but that hasn't happened yet so just a little bit of the basic science within every cell in our body we have the centre of the cell it's called the nucleus and it's inside that nucleus where all the DNA is packaged up in these structures called chromosomes and we each have 46 chromosomes we get 23 from our mother 23 from our father and one set of those chromosomes are the sex chromosomes so if you're a male you have an ex-promosome and the y-promosome is the y-promosome that makes you a male and if you're a female you have two nemesis but the important feature about the autosomes is that before they are passed on they're going to go in a process of recombination so the DNA that you get from your parents is a patchwork of the DNA that you get from your grandparents or great-grandparents and all in different proportions and that means that you get representation from all of your ancestors but it also makes it more difficult to try and work out what the connection is because then rather than with the y-promosome you've just got the one straight line the autosomal DNA you've got to look at all your different ancestral lines so to get the most out of autosomal DNA you really need to do your genealogy research and to reserve every single line of your family tree and you also need to hope that people matches have done the same so this is how the inheritance process works you get 50% of your DNA from your mother 50% from your father and then as we go back through the generations with your grandparents you get an average of 25% from each grandparent but there is a variation around those averages and you don't generally get 25% exactly from each grandparent you will get more from one than you will get from another so on each side it always adds up to 50% so you might get 29% from one grandparent and 21% from the other and then as you go further back in time that DNA is diluted so if you've only got 21% from one of your grandparents then on that line you're going to have much less DNA going back through the generations so the average is 12.5% for great grandparents and then once you get back to about 6 generations you start to have ancestors with whom you will not share any DNA they start to drop off your genetic family tree they're still on your genealogical family tree but you just don't have that DNA anymore but of course if you test other family members it may be that your sibling has a different mix of DNA and they will have the representation of that ancestor that you don't so this is what DNA looks like in a chromosome browser this is a feature that family tree DNA have which answers who don't which I think most serious genetic genealogists really enjoy having this chromosome browser which I find it really helpful just to visualise the matches of what they look like so this is my son compared with me and my husband and you can see that across every single chromosome he's got one entire chromosome for me one entire chromosome from his father this is my son compared with his maternal grandparents and you can see here how the DNA has been chopped up so that on some chromosome one there he's got a little bit of orange from his grandfather and then the rest of the blue part of that chromosome is from his grandmother and then if you go down to one of these chromosomes there you can't see them from here in one case he's inherited the entire chromosome from his maternal grandmother nothing from his maternal grandfather and once that DNA has gone it's lost forever on in that one individual and then once we get out to third cousins there's just a few blocks of DNA shared and then once you get out to fifth cousins sixth cousins you would only expect to share one block of DNA if you're going to share DNA at all now the companies all have quite different figures they don't explain very well where they get these figures from but this is what they reckon we can expect if we test with them and our chances of actually having a match so if you test you and the second cousin you would expect to match that second cousin we have not yet had a proven case of second cousins testing who do not match each other so if you test a second cousin you don't match you both need to go back and start asking some awkward questions of your other family member to try and find out what's gone wrong there but the third cousins there are some genuine genetic third cousins who will not show up as a match and then as we go further out the chances of actually showing up as a match start to diminish quite rapidly because it may be you've got to first of all inherit the DNA from those distant ancestors which is the first point but then you also have to inherit DNA on the same chromosome and on the same part of that same chromosome so if you've got a bit of your great great great grandparent on chromosome one and your cousin has got a bit of that grandparent on chromosome nine you've both got DNA from him but you don't show up as a match now with DNA testing it really helps to test as many people as possible in my ideal world every single person will test and we have all our genealogical problems solved but I think that is not likely to happen we can but dream but the priority should always be the oldest generations get them into the databases while you have the chance if you can, if you can test your parents do so some people are able to test grandparents if you can't test your parents you may have one parent and you can then test aunts and uncles on the other side and siblings are very helpful especially if you don't have parents to test because they get a completely different mix of DNA you've lost we only get 50% of the parent's DNA so they have a different part about 50% in their mix and I also think it's very useful just to understand the process if you can test your parents if you can't test your parents if you've got a partner and children just at least have a trio so you've got a parent, child a parent, two parents and a child because I think that really helps you to understand how the inheritance process works and then the other people that we want to test are the first and third cousins that gives you the maximum representation the second cousins seem to be the ones who are best because that's the sort of sweet spot where you're guaranteed a match and it helps you to narrow down the line to one in age, one in four and with autosomal DNA always start with the known work out the unknown if you have a framework of known relatives that you've tested it will set you in really good stead for the more distant matches if you test yourself and a first cousin and then you match a fourth cousin you also match that first cousin then you've got a much better chance of identifying where you share the common ancestry now it's important to consider the limitations first of all of our genealogical research and also of the genetics now most people I would imagine unless they're adopted they know who their parents are they know who their grandparents are even without doing any family history research they can probably name all of our grandparents we can obviously start doing our research we can probably identify our great grandparents our great-great-grandparents and probably some people in this room can identify all 32 great-great-great-grand-grand great-great-great-grandparents how many people can actually identify every single person at that level? four hands went up so once we go back to the next level can we still identify all 64 great, great grandparents. I'm most impressed but I would say that that level is probably the limit of genealogical research. If you are really lucky and really dedicated, even if you are, I've got illegitimacies in my family tree which I can't get through at the moment so I can't identify all these people. I've got lots of holes in my tree and you can guarantee your matches are going to have holes as well. So this does impact first of all how we interpret the matches because if you have a match with someone you need to be in some people have trees that collapse on themselves so not everyone is going to have 64 great, great, great grandparents. Some people have cousins who marry and they will have a reduced number of ancestors so that makes it more complicated interpreting the matches. So you then have to be sure that if you have a match with someone that you are matching on the line that you've identified from your genealogical research and not from a different line that you haven't yet researched or they haven't yet researched. As we go further back in time, this is something we have to take into account as well, the number of, it's actually a structure of the ancestral population. So those 64, that generation, when we go back one further generation, we have 128 ancestors, once we go back 10 generations we have over 1,000 ancestors and if we keep going back 15 generations, 32,000 ancestors, that 20 generations we all have one million ancestors which is just a mind-boggling figure and 20 generations isn't actually that far back and the 30 generations were up to 1 billion and this is where we have something which is called the ancestor paradox. So this is me, these are my ancestors, I have 1 billion ancestors from about 30 generations ago which is around about 1080. Every other person in this room, you all have a billion ancestors in that time frame but the historical population of the world at that time was 295 million. So you can see what's happened, there's been a huge, we're all essentially related to everyone else so I can guarantee that I am related to every single person in this room, I may be your 10th cousin, I may be your 13th cousin, I may be your 20th cousin and there are all sorts of relationships between every single person in this room that we will never identify through genealogical research. So now this does have an impact on the genetics and this is Winston Churchill's family tree. There's a very nice tool that Brad Lyons has produced where if you've got a GED profile and if you do have this pedigree collapse in your tree you can upload your GED profile and you can visualize the amount of pedigree collapse. So this is only ancestors he's able to identify but you can see how the tree once you get back into this medieval era, everyone's related to everyone else and I would say that's probably typical certainly of most gene vision trees that I look at, this pedigree collapse starts to occur back in that medieval era. But in another population, so this is all US presidents and they're all related to each other much more recently. So if we would say if Barack Obama was to take a DNA test and Donald Trump was to take a DNA test, they would both be related to each other on multiple ancestral lines. So then the question arises, when you have a match, how do you know which of those many different lines they're actually matching on? So this means it's very difficult to use auto DNA for distant matches but it's much more effective for recent matches. So what do we mean by a match? So a match is a segment of DNA that is what is called identical by descent, which means it's been inherited without recombination from a common ancestor. Now there are some limitations to the current test. We're not testing and sequencing the whole genome, we're only doing a sampling of markers across the genome. So that does present some limitations and also each company they have their own algorithms, they have their different match thresholds. So you will sometimes find you get a match at one company that doesn't show but another company, the count of 70 morgons the unit used to measure DNA might be different from one company to another. And another problem, this again applies to the more distant matches. There are some small segments where the companies just can't measure those actually in the moment. That's not just a necessary limitation of the algorithms but also because we're not doing the whole sequence. And I just wanted to just say a word of warning because we do get some people who try and produce the thresholds. A family treaty in there, you can go right down to one 70 morgon. But if you do that, you are in the danger zone and you will find you can match every single person in the world if you set your threshold at one 70 morgon. And you can just about make cash on here. This is my son and the comparison with his grandparents. And you can see on here, if I blow the threshold to one 70 morgon, you see little flecks there that appear in old places. So on chromosome one there's a little orange left that appears there on that blue section which he's got from his grandmother. Now you can't inherit DNA from two grandparents in that way. We know we can see from the chart that he's got that whole long segment from the maternal grandfather. And so those small segments are generally just noise. Don't go down to five CMs. It's best to only focus on the segments that are at least over seven 70 morgons. And now the other thing is the age of segments. We can talk about having a match with someone and being identical by descent. But in actual fact, some of those matches can go back a surprisingly long way. The only good data that we have is from simulations that some of my colleagues at UCL did, where they looked at the amount of sharing and they just ran these algorithms over and over again. And you can see that as the segments get smaller and smaller, the relationship could be actually very distant. So even if you have a match on say a 20 70 or segment, about 60% about 40% of those will be well beyond 10 generations. So that's something else you have to bear in mind. That's so again, it's best if you focus on the close matches and that's where you're likely to have the most success. And the other thing to watch out for are what are called pilot regions. Sometimes we find that what we would expect is to find that the matches are distributed evenly across our genome, rather than say, large numbers of matches are all piling up on chromosome one or chromosome six. But when we get the results, we do find that there are these regions where we do get these pilots and lots and lots of people are all matching on the same segment. And that there are just too many people matching for that to actually that share that DNA to be shared through a recent genealogical relationship. Some of these are areas that have been prone to natural selection. So there are certain things like lactose tolerance, which is very, very prevalent. 90% of the Irish population have the particular lactose tolerance. So that particular segment of DNA will have been conserved in the Irish population. So you probably find most Irish people matching on that particular part of the genome. So ancestry have filters that actually down weight these pilots, but the other companies don't have so many of those. So that's another thing to watch out for you don't want to start drawing conclusions that you're related to someone when it happens to be on one of these regions where everyone is related. Now I mentioned the advantage of testing parents and children. I've done some comparisons at ancestry family treating a my heritage where I've got three parents where I can do those comparisons. And at ancestry, 36% of my matches did not match either my parents. And family treating a 26% didn't match either my parents at my heritage 71% didn't match either my parents. Now that the figures are somewhat misleading, looking at it that way, because at ancestry, most of the matches that didn't match either my parents one very, very small sentence at six and seven, eight cent in organs, family treating a have a higher match threshold. So they wouldn't actually report those matches. But it's all it's, it's, again, this is all on very small segments. My heritage, I don't know what they're doing with their matching. They need to sort it out because we have reports of people who aren't getting second cousins who match elsewhere that are showing up. But so the ones that don't match, these are all the speculative matches, the low confidence matches. But so this is just a word of caution about that level of sharing. And another reason just to focus on the close matches, we now have so many matches, we don't need to worry about the very distant matches in most cases anyway. Just for those of you who haven't tested, most of you have, this is the ancestry DNA homepage. I'm only going to focus on ancestry DNA, family tree DNA, the rest of it. So this is what you get at ancestry DNA. You get the, I don't have any DNA circles. How many people have DNA circles at ancestry? Only a couple, all right. And I have my first new ancestor discovery. How many people have one of those? Oh, a few, right. Mine was not very helpful. It's somebody in South Carolina, who I'm pretty sure I'm not closely related to. And this match does not show up on either of my parents' matches either. So I don't think that's a real helpful hint there. So this is what the match list looks like. And one, a useful tip, I find these notes very, very useful of ancestry. I record in there when I send a message to someone when they've replied. And then once you've got the notes in there, you can then just click on the notes to call up the details again when I'm just going to click through every time. And ancestry have some very useful filters. So if you've tested your parents, as I've done, you can actually filter your matches by the parent. And I find the genetic communities are also a very useful filter. So I've got the two communities here so I can search for matches within those communities. So those are the people that are more likely to have genealogical relationships with me. About 90% of my matches across all the companies is in America. I don't have any recent ancestors who immigrated to America. So all those matches are very, very distant. And you can also look at the amount of shared DNA if you click through here at the competence level. And that gives you the, so that will allow you to do a check looking at other sources. So this is someone who was predicted to be a third cousin at Ancestry, sharing 168 sentin organs. And it was actually a second cousin. And this is again where it was useful to test the other family members. I tested my father and my mother. And my father was predicted to be a first to second cousin. So that was in the range for the first to second cousin. But the amount is showing that Ancestry allowed the second cousin. That was under that threshold. So none of these predictions are necessarily going to be completely accurate. There are always going to be variables. And it also, a lot of that depends on the population as well. And Ancestry give you some confidence levels. And I would recommend only focusing on the matches that at least are good confidence, 16 to 13 sentin organs. They say good or moderate for a reason. Because some of those matches, they may not be real. They may be so far back in time that you can't find the genealogical relationship. And the most useful feature of Ancestry are the leaf hints. I've only got four of these at the moment. And two of those are good by parents. But when they do work, they work very well. And in both cases, for me, they identified the common ancestor. The disadvantage is that you have to have a subscription to make use of the features of Ancestry. So things like the leaf hints and the circles and the new access to discoveries. And also the ability to access the trees of your matches. You only get that if you have the subscription. You can contact a match and you can ask them to share a tree with you. But you don't have the direct access to the tree yourself. So that's something to bear in mind at Ancestry DNA. And this is my homepage at Family Tree DNA. And one of the real advantages of Family Tree DNA that I wanted to plug are the projects. And there are a whole host of geographical projects. There's a large number of really wonderful Irish DNA projects which you'll be hearing more about over this weekend. And the Swedish DNA project, we have Peter here who runs the Swedish DNA project. And we've got lots of regional projects for Ireland as well. Cork and North Ireland Family History Society run their own project. And if you own a project, a lot of the admins of the project can often offer advice and help with your results or put you in the direction of useful resources. And some like Paddy will even actually welcome project members when they come and visit the country's room overseas. And Sean also is doing a nice study in Lindarvaul over there. And when you're in the project what you can do is you can actually search for matches within a project. So that's a useful way of filtering. And the other thing with Family Tree DNA is they also offer wide DNA and mitochondrial DNA testing. So that means that you can coordinate the results of three different types of tests on one account. And I find it very useful to have the evidence not just more to single DNA but also from wide DNA and mitochondrial DNA wherever possible because you can then be much further, you can reach your conclusions to be much more certain about them. And if you are going to embark on testing lots of family members or if you have tested lots of family members you can set up a project of Family Tree DNA to manage all those project members under one login to say having to log into lots of different accounts. So even if you know if you want to say test 10 family members then that's well worth doing. And you can have it as a secret project so it's not actually comfortably revealed. This is what the match list looks like at Family Tree DNA and they give you, if you vented surnames, any matching surnames are highlighted in bold there. And you have the benefit of being the chromosome browser to look at the matches and one of the things that I find useful and largely find useful is actually looking at the matches and trying to identify which particular segment came from which particular ancestor and the more that you do this the more you can build up a map and it also helps to, when you get other matches coming in, to identify how you're related. So here this again is a comparison with my son and his grandparents and a match with the third person once removed and you can see here when that match comes in it's just that one match there on chromosome 7 and we can see immediately that he is matching on his paternal grandfather's chromosome. So with that knowledge we know exactly which branch of the family tree to look at. You don't have to do this but it is, some people find it quite addictive. And just to, this is an example that I showed you to think you are live, the benefits of testing siblings and in this case it's a third person once removed who had matched with two siblings and two siblings match each other as siblings but the first sibling they only shared 15 symptom organs across two, two chromosomes there and that's a sort of match that probably you would think oh it's probably not worth more than a minute it's going to be very very distant and then when we did the comparison with the second sibling they shared a much larger amount of DNA 93 symptom organs and it was very clear there was a much closer relationship than you would have realised just by looking at the one sibling there. So this is an example of how testing more people can actually narrow down the possibilities of the of the relationships. One very useful website I wanted to tell you about a tool that you can use is the shared CMs project which is on the iSort wiki page for autosomal DNA statistics and the link is on the pdfs and this is actually a study done by genetic genealogists all submitting their data from all different testing companies and trying to get a feel for the range of sharing for all different degrees of relationship and there's a really neat tool that's now been developed from a with this website dna painter now I'm going to keep trying to use this yes all right so a lot of people you can go home and have really good fun with this because what you can do you enter in the amount of DNA that is shared so in this case I enter 168 CMs which was that my second cousin relationship and as predicted as a third cousin and it will give you the percentage of shared DNA but then it will also give you the possible relationships I spent a long time preparing slides and I talked about who to think you are live last and I did always manually and now it can be done at the touch of a button so that you can see here it limits the range of relationships so my second cousin relationship 168 CMs is actually within well within the range shown by the shared CM project and it would be a very high amount of sharing for a third cousin layer and if you are into doing all the chromosome mapping you can do this on this website as well they've got a whole load of wonderful tools and you can here's an example of profiles and this is all interactive and if you click on the on a chromosome there you can actually see good bits of shared and it even identifies pilot regions for you and then you can make notes on the segments there another useful tool is Kitty Cooper's chromosome marker where you have to enter the data manually but what you can do with this is also you can if you have a couple where you've got lots of people tested you can actually produce one of these snazzy maps showing which bits of DNA of that ancestral couple have been inherited by all the different cousins there this is really for more advanced usage but a lot of people do really like doing this type of work GEDmatch is a very useful website where regardless of where you've tested you can compare results and they add out 650,000 users so if you've tested at Ancestry DNA and your cousins tested at 23andMe you can plug both results into here and do the comparisons there is now a complication because some of the companies living DNA and 23andMe are now using a different chip which is not compatible with the existing tests from the other companies so they've now got this new Genesis database where you can do comparisons on the version 5 chip and I think some of the other companies will probably have to move over to that chip in the long run as well so GEDmatch is free to use there's all these features and you can do you can look at eye color and you can do very detailed comparisons between one class and another and the army of parents related to all the various other things and there are various features that are what are called the tier one level I think it's five dollars a month probably most most people aren't going to need those advanced tools but they're for very very experienced genetic genealogists and this is the GEDmatch Genesis database and eventually all the results are going to be merged into this sort of Genesis database and you can get all there's a whole load of these ad mixtures percentage charts you can get they've got the whole range they don't I don't find their mean very much but some people seem to really like playing with these DNA GEDcom is another very useful website which has got some useful tools there's this one of the most useful is this ADSA autosomal DNA segment analyzer and this is very useful for visualizing these pilot zones so here you can this will accept family finder data on my heritage data and you can see here on my chromosome one I've all these people piled up on this one particular part of the chromosome there and this is interactive you can click on the the names of the matches and then send an email directly within this interface the other very useful feature about DNA GEDcom is this DNA GEDcom client this is a subscription service which is five dollars a month but this answer street don't allow you to download your match list which is one thing I'd really like from ancestry because it's just very helpful to have that information in a spreadsheet and with the DNA GEDcom client you can do that and you can get the information about the shared CMs a number of segments and also the all family tree information as well so that's very useful and it's actually much easier I find sometimes just sorting through on a spreadsheet trying to find the matches than trying to navigate through the search system there another site you can try is DNA land this is actually a scientific research project and they are they've provided lots of tools for people to use so that to tempt them to join the database and then you can contribute your results to the research purposes then out to 64,000 users when I last took this screenshot and make one nice feature like that they do have a matching database I still don't have any matching matches in their database but they have this nice feature where they try and divide the matches up into recent segments which I think is interesting and then they also have these trait reports so eye color and various other things you just have to answer a little questionnaire and then you get these reports given and one final one I wanted to mention is Genome Mate Pro this is not one that I use but there are some a lot of people seem to think this is really good it apparently has a very steep learning curve but it will allow you to create all your match data if you've tested at multiple companies you can put it all in this database and you can do all sorts of fancy analysis with it so finally just to finish off resources ISOC is the the main resource for genetic genealogy there's a wiki there is a port in the wiki on autosomal DNA where you'll find lots of very very usable articles and there's a Facebook group and there are all there's now a whole host of genetic genealogy mailing lists that you might want to try a lot of the useful advice is coming through the Facebook groups now and I'm also on some of the blogs and I have a blog that you can follow as well and have time to write so there are lots lots of people out there who can help and we're all in this sort of process of learning together how these tests work and trying to find out how to make the most out of autosomal DNA so I think I've covered everything I want to do so if anyone has any questions thank you very much David Emma any questions for Debi? yeah we have another thing thanks very much Debi that was very interesting I was contacted by the lady who transferred her autosomal results from Manifest Street to STTNA and then edited my company binder match list that's right and we know we have a geographical association what I don't understand is that she subsequently then transferred her daughter's results and her daughter is now my number one match as far as I know the binder is not Irish no geographical location and so how many hands have happened? so you say the daughter has more shares more DNA with you than the mother yes right that can happen I've found when I did a comparison of my results of dancers be DNA and I've found in that comparison 20 of my matches actually shared DNA with both my mother and with my father and I had one person I found who shared quite a large segment of DNA with my mother and then another large segment of DNA with my father I only matched one of those one of that I only matched on one of those segments so without testing my parents I wouldn't have known that I also had the match on the other side and another reason that could happen is that Ancestry have this timber algorithm where they down weight these pilot regions so if the match happened to form within a pilot region it could be that the CM count is lower than Ancestry than it is at Planetary DNA but I would take the Ancestry CM count to be more alive because they do more faulty stuff with their matching to actually make sure it's a good match Questions? Is that it? Yep. How do you with that one here? Should I be skeptical of the MyHeritage match with 358 shared sentry mortgages or are they just where do you have those close relationships like first and second cousins? The one I saw recently was a second cousin match where that showed up with all the other companies and didn't show up at MyHeritage but I hope that the close matches are reliable I'm sure they will get their system sorted in due course I also heard that living DNA will be accepting free transfers from other companies by the end of this year It was going to be temporary wasn't it this year that they seem to have factored out yes So I've heard that by the end of the year we should also be able to transfer our data whether it's Ancestry or Family Tree DNA to living DNA as well Question here Well those percentages really relate to much more deep Ancestry like a thousand years ago and that's just giving you a representation so imagine that you're building an Ancestry so it's just giving you a representation of those building Ancestries and roughly where they're from so really is that they are that reliable at beyond the continental level so Irish people tend to have higher percentages of Irish but I come up with 20% Irish in Ancestry and I only have one Irish great great great grandmother but there's been a lot of mixing between England and Ireland so lots of English people went to Ireland in 1600s and it's not it's very difficult to distinguish between English and Irish or even like English and German so a lot of German people have higher percentages of English and French and English again is also very difficult to distinguish between so I wouldn't put too much regard to those the genetic communities of Ancestry are very reliable and if you're in the community for West Kerry even if you haven't got any West Kerry ancestors you can probably be pretty certain you've got some recent Ancestry from West Kerry so I would go by those rather than be these bold percentages great question yes we have a question here at the back I'm going to come down to you and hopefully I can avoid these I'm just glad the speakers thank you unfortunately this is the first part of the lecture but my query is on Ancestry.com the other day I got in there first and second because boom I have no idea who it is what so ever and neither have they is there any way I can solve that problem as to who that person is or where the problem came from well this is where we have to go back to the genealogical research and you missed the bit at the beginning where I was saying that DNA is now revealing lots of surprises and unexpected relationships so clearly you have a fairly recent ancestor in your or one of you has an ancestor in your family tree you had a child that nobody knew nothing about so you can you can narrow these down sometimes by testing other people sorry about that I don't know what but it's getting interference on our speakers sorry yes it's a question of going back to the genealogical research and you can narrow it down by testing other people and maybe if you can identify an even closer relation like as a possible first cousin to see if they share the same the amount of DNA expected for a first cousin relationship but it's all down to the genealogical research the DNA on its own is not actually that helpful it's the combination of the DNA with the genealogy that's it's how we get the answers if you test somebody on your mother's side of the family test somebody on your father's side of the family you might be able to narrow it down to take your side at least on my mother's side I know that great question can we have a question in here I feel like very much they determine some finds and matches on my mother's side however I was not able to have her match I mean Tessa she was an only child in her father's and only child in her mother's side there were only a few civilians that had children how can I determine about these thousands of matches I have in my relation on my mother's side so have you been able to test people on your father's side yes so all you can do is test as many people on that side of the family as possible and just do the genealogical research so that you've got the names and the surnames you can you can sort of sometimes infer from the matches on your father have you been able to test your father or an uncle there aren't no uncles right what might bring you on your children right it is more difficult in that case but again the more if you can test as many second cousins third cousins as you can on both sides that will help to give you a framework no there is no but as the databases grow you're going to get more of these close cousins matching anyway just by chance about having to go out and improve them and hopefully if you get to say I'm a third cousin you should be able to tie that in just from genealogy research okay right great okay well we have to end the question there I'm afraid but Debbie will be around in less than a day and if anybody wants to ask any questions then you Debbie will be outside of the family treating a stamp which is just outside us there's lots of volunteers there as well so if you have any particular questions about DNA please go to the family treating a stamp and ask some of the volunteers there there's also of course lots of volunteers at the ancestry stand as well and we also have my heritage here so there's lots of free information but for now thank you very much yeah sure thank you Min I mean I understand that there's interest ancestry and family tree and that if for a woman you're not doing the one with the white chromosome yeah so it's really a choice between you elect for one or the other but for a woman which of them is most ancestry or the family tree certainly