 Hi, my name is Catherine Cronin with the National Forum and on behalf of all the team who you'll meet in just a moment like to welcome you to this webinar I'm using open educational resources and open educational practices for teaching and learning. There's a team of four of us who have developed a resource in this area in consultation with many people across the sector. The purpose of the webinar today is not just to share the resource but to focus on conversation about it because we'd like to learn from you as well. So the hashtag will be using if you want to tweet or talk about this beyond the webinar is NF open. And we will record the webinar and share it after today will share it with you. If you if you send up for the webinar you'll get a link. As I said the resource that we're sharing today had four co developers and we are going to be the presenters in the webinar we're all here, as well as some members of the National Forum team supporting us. So again, I'm Catherine Cronin I'm a strategic education developer with the National Forum for digital and open education. Hello, everyone. I'm Claire McAvenia. I'm an learning development officer at the LTTC into Dublin and currently on part time succumbent as an educational developer with the National Forum. Thank you everyone. I'm Celine Pina, deputy librarian in that room. I'm Angelica Rieske, lead education and developer at the Center of Transformative Learning in UL. Okay, wonderful. Thanks everyone. Our outline for today is very straightforward we wanted to start the webinar just by giving a little bit of rationale about where this work came from and the rationale for it. And then we'll share the link and give a brief tour of the resource and give you some time to, to have a look at it to speak with each other about it, and then broaden that out to a larger discussion and q amp a session. I wonder before we start talking about the webinar I'll just hand over to Claire just for a moment. Thank you Catherine. Yeah, this is one of the National Webinar series which we have advertised on the site recently and you can see the dates here on Catherine slide. The purpose of these webinars is to address really what we've discovered over the past year, particularly the increasing need for agility in relation to curriculum teaching assessment and policy in our sector. And we're being called upon to be very adaptable in our face to face blended online context so we're addressing that through these webinars. On the 15th of April, we'll be looking at agile curricula that follows through to another in June. We have to on assessment in the meantime particularly focusing on issues arising over the past year during the pandemic, a further webinar on digital and the final one in October looking at transforming teaching and learning for student success. Okay great thanks Claire. I know that we have very many we are an OEP experts and champions in the room today, but we also expect that maybe some people might be new to we are an OEP. So just on the order of first principles we wanted to start with the definition of the terms that we use, you know, in the name in the name of this resource. OER being open educational resources which as many people know are not just free resources but free resources that have been openly licensed to permit reuse adaptation and so on. And OEP is open educational practices which is kind of a higher level of abstraction from OER and really about how we use OER particularly in teaching and learning. So that's what we're talking about when we refer to OER and OEP. And just a little bit about where this emerged it's, you know, it didn't just emerge out of nowhere. There's been a steady evolution of work, certainly in the sector and specifically in the National Forum in the area of OER and OEP. So, going back to 2015, the National Forum published a research report called learning resources and open access in higher education institutions in Ireland, both Angelic and Claire worked on that report. And that looked at really the attitudes and knowledge around open, you know, across the Irish higher education sector. Things have progressed a lot since that time. In 2019, we had a formal consultation, the National Forum with colleagues in teaching and learning and libraries from across a number of institutions, just to glean what, how people were supporting open education practice across higher education and what the National Forum could do to support that. So we hosted a webinar with a speaker from Creative Commons. Excuse me about OER and open licensing. We had follow on conversations again more broadly and we learned that what was needed and what was requested were targeted resources. There's an awful lot of information about OER specifically online, but what were needed were Irish HE focused specific resources, that's what would be most helpful. So in later 2019 we published the National Forum Open Licensing Toolkit and those conversations and engagement continued. We learned that a question a lot of people have when they started openly licensing their resources to make them into OER was that they weren't sure which license to choose. There are a number of different Creative Commons licenses. So in 2020, we published a guide called how to choose an open license. And again, we've had conversations and we've supported work that's going on in institutions in these areas. Of course, in the light of all that's happened in 2020, we know that there were a lot of people looking at open education for the first time. So we tried to amplify what was going on in the sector. We shared some of that work in an open education week list of OER activities across the sector. And now this resource sharing using OER and OEP for teaching and learning is kind of a culmination of that previous work. So I'll hand over to Claire because we'd like to know a little bit about you and maybe why you're here in the webinar. Thank you again Catherine and welcome everyone. It's wonderful to have such a strong response to the webinar today and to this topic area. And we thought it would be useful to ask you really about what's brought you here today. What's your main area of interest and activity with regard to open what you do, what would you like to do regarding OER and OEP. So we have a little poll there. I can see somebody's answered already. Please feel free to respond there. That's great. We'll leave it up just for about a half a minute to let you respond quick fire and then we'll share the results on that. So whether it's about learning more, finding examples, extending your practice, helping others, sharing your OER, OEP more widely, finding collaborators, or maybe doing some more open education research. I'll just leave it for a couple of seconds more. Nearly everyone has responded now at this point. So just give it a couple more seconds. Okay, I'm going to end the poll just for now by all means continue in the chat and we'll have more chance for discussion later. And I'll share the results with you there. So here we go. So yeah, I think many of us would like to learn more and I mean speaking for myself there always is more to learn around this topic. Working with colleagues in this process has been so valuable for me. So we all I think are engaged with learning more and supporting others. It's lovely to see that coming through in the result here. Because this is such a collaborative activity and I think we'll see that coming through over the course of the webinar today. Examples again, we got this very practical nature of our work particularly at the moment. So that's reflected in your result there. And to extend our open practices. Absolutely. Hopefully, I think you'll find something in the webinar in the course of today that will respond to all of those answers that you've given there to the poll. Okay, so we'll move along and I'll stop the sharing there for the minute. And Thanks, Claire. That's great. Thank you. Okay. That's really useful to just knowing that some people here are beginners or want to learn more and some people are already supporting others. This was very much our intention in developing the resource was that we thought it could be useful for people who just want to learn more as individuals, but also to those who are already supporting others in their institutions in their open practice and trying to build open capabilities in institutions. So again, we want to support all those levels of use, but we also want to learn from you about what you're doing. So just some four key features about the project that we wanted to share before we before we share the URL and that's just the ethos behind it. The purpose what we hope the purpose will be the focus on collaboration and community as I said, and looking to the future about what next. So to start with, this resource is really about the use of OER as I said an OEP for teaching and learning, but underlying open for anybody who would call themselves an open education practitioner is a sense of an open ethos. So we just wanted to speak a little bit about that about, you know, kind of the shared values that we had in developing this work. This is about the potential of open education. And we share a belief that open educational resources and practices have potential potential benefits in three main areas. And these are increasing access, furthering equity and enhancing pedagogy. So, I'll just go through each of these just briefly. So access, this is, you know, if you read anything about open educational resources, this is probably the first word that you'll see open educational resources are about increasing access to education. So in our case, if we're looking at the context of Irish higher education, we are thinking about access for students, access for teachers and all who support teaching and learning, and really access for anyone. So it's not literally anyone because there's a certain level of knowledge and skills and meaningful connectivity that people need to have to access OER generally. But when we share resources as OER as individuals, we're sharing value across the education sector and far beyond and oftentimes you never know who might use your open resources. And so they're shared sometimes with a real sense of humility about saying this is something I've developed that's useful, and others may find it useful as well so I'm sharing it with an open license. The second area where we feel that OER and OEP have potential is in the area of furthering equity. And of course this is central as well and in most discussions of open education. It's always been a key feature of the ethos of openness, but it's been particularly so in the past year. And, you know, we've discussed that as a group and in the National Forum that, you know, whatever any of us might have known about inequality. You know, before 2020, we certainly know a lot more now, based on all that has happened in the past year. So in terms of furthering equity, OER can reduce overall costs for students if teachers are using open textbooks and open resources. OER have what we call persistent availability. In other words, something like an open textbook or an open resource that's used for teaching is available before, during and after a module, as well as during any breaks in study. So again, we know from studies done by the USI and others that, you know, financial hardship that students might have been experiencing has certainly been exacerbated in the past year. So the fact that those resources are available persistently can be really powerful. OER are also open for addressing diversity, equity and inclusion. So we've all had the experience of using a resource for teaching that we feel is not inclusive in terms of gender, in terms of race, in terms of culture, in terms of gender identity, you know, many different ways. So when we use open resources, they are editable and we can add perspectives that might be missing specifically to better represent local and marginalized identities. So certainly OER, you know, more broadly supports sustainable development goal number four, which is ensuring inclusive and quality education for all. And finally in the area of pedagogy, we could probably talk about this the most and there's a large part of the resource that addresses open pedagogy and OEP. As mentioned, OER can be adapted and used for specific context so you can add, you can add language you can add perspectives you can add case studies that are relevant for your students, your location, your module. Students can co create OER as well. So we can move away from single authored resources for teaching and learning and get students to engage in creating and co creating knowledge. OER also opens up a lot of opportunities in the area of authentic assessment. So for example, students in the course of learning or the course of assessment, actually creating resources that can be open and used by the community, used by others, and thereby contributing to public knowledge. And of course, all of these activities are really powerful ways to develop digital literacies, learning about licensing, learning about copyright, learning about OER. Digital literacies and capabilities that students can take, you know, well beyond their current module. Diversifying the curriculum I mentioned already, and the potential for local and global collaboration are enormous. And, you know, certainly we can talk more about that but, you know, by thinning the walls of the classroom, as is often said, and you know helping students to engage with students in other modules and other institutions and other countries. We have a lot of possibilities in terms of collaboration and pointing towards, you know, what Bell Hooks calls education as the practice of freedom. So, in addition to this shared ethos about what open education is and can be in relation to higher education. Each of the four of us who developed this brings a personal commitment to open education as well so we just wanted to share that really briefly, because we all brought something different I suppose to the project so. In my case my role in the National Forum is to support open educational practice in the Irish higher education sector, but I also have a long term commitment personally to using critical approaches to open education both research and practice and clear. Thank you, Catherine. I think, for me, my encounter with open educational resources in the first instance was through supporting colleagues to use the virtual learning environment in my previous role. And we were still calling them things like learning objects, which was perhaps quite a content oriented focus at that time. And it's great to see it has evolved well beyond that to something that is collaborative and community focused. And now is, is talked about as open educational practice and something I've endeavored to reflect through my work as an academic developer and getting participants in programs to engage with it and to produce their own OER. What hand over to Angelica. I think, from my perspective as an educational developer, I believe I have a role in being an advocate for open practice is part of my own teaching and scholarly philosophy. And I'm particularly interested in the ways that OEP can work in a community of practice and the benefit, the interest of benefits of that, and the ways that it can serve to perhaps address teachers concerns around time management and content creation, copyright compliance and so on, so that would be my view. And Celine, I think. Angelica, well, for me really embracing openness in my profession, the library profession where we know knowledge and resources are far too often kept behind paywall. That was my main motivation to join the team. I want to support library colleagues to raise awareness of open practices and OER in the academic community. And I think we need to start rethink collection development to incorporate OER, and we need to encourage collaboration with our colleagues to start using reusing and why not publishing OER. So Angelica, do you want to bring us to the purpose of doing this? Thanks, Celine. Yeah, so pay some attention to the purpose of this initiative. As Catherine was saying before, many resources exist around OER and OEP, but there's a need to localize and contextualize these two nourish context by bringing, for example, a relevant information and learning about copyright law or OEP experiences and so on. And on the other hand, we are aware that many, many pockets of expertise and practice around the country, many of you would be involved in those, and there's a need to curate those. And so we learned, for example, recently during an open education week about a great work with lead guides and many more. So that was the rationale of it. But ultimately, if we move on to the next slide, thank you. Whilst we are aiming to build this capacity, open capacity in the research education sector, it was very interesting to see the results of that fall that many of you are coming here with that main motivation. And we are interested in opening that discussion and that community discussion about the ways that OEP and OER can permeate through the sector. So Claire would actually bring that point forward. Thank you. And I think yes, we're calling on you to comment to feedback on the resource following on from today, but building on a tradition of a lot of collaboration and community focus in relation to this work over many years in Ireland and we're fortunate in to have had that. So from the early 2000s, we've seen initiatives around the development and the sharing of OER in Ireland. People might remember the National Digital Learning repository from quite a long time ago now 2004 or five. Later it was called National Digital Learning resources. That was from the era of big repositories which has sort of come and gone a little bit. We collaborated internationally at that time as well, though with colleagues in the UK who are working with Joram and the Centre for Excellence, for example, in reusable learning objects again was the label at the time. And a collaborative model very quickly emerged through the NDLR communities of practice, the local innovation projects that were undertaken at that time, and many of those links are still there and people are still working together. So subsequently, as Catherine has mentioned the National Forum after it was launched and began to undertake research and development in this area, funded focused research around learning resources and open access in higher education institutions. And that work was undertaken by the former NDLR partners, librarians, people to develop that community of practice in the sector in relation to OER, and to develop OEP again through those relationships. And that's been strengthened by the professional development framework, which the forum has been working towards for some years and then subsequently launched in 2016 through our own accredited programs and initiatives in the institutions. Also through the open courses which again developed in the open available openly and to enable colleagues to work towards their goals in terms of the PD framework. So I hope that this resource will develop over time to become a further open course within that suite leading to a digital badge. And through all of our work that we can model OEP to colleagues in this way through teaching and learning development practice through how we work with people who teach through the work of the forum that that development is a shared endeavor and not located with any one team or initiative. I'll pass over to Celine to talk a little bit more about the future as we see it emerging. Thank you Claire. Well the resources is here now so it's here to support the development of open capability across the Irish higher education sector. It will support OER and OEP champions in the sector and many of whom are here today. I'm talking about staff in teaching and learning units, library colleagues, the academic community. First the resource will support students with access to more varied resources at zero costs and the introduction of open pedagogy to support collaborative work, for example. The resources is here also to help libraries to support students with various learning needs using a diversified and targeted range of resources. Libraries have a crucial role to play in ensuring access to new resources and equity for all stakeholders as we know. This can be achieved by including for example OER in future collection development policies by supporting the inclusion of OER in reading lists. Directing staff who teach towards OER and when we search in new material and of course encouraging them to adopt, adapt and why not publish open educational resources. Now the next point here is really exciting points. The resource will also help to increase collaboration in our sector towards the new national resource hub of OER for teaching and learning. So that's a very exciting development having our own there. Next slide please. Okay, so we have the resource. Let's think even further. What if, what if these resource could inspire Irish higher education institution to invest in open publishing tools, for example, in platforms to support staff and to ensure access to OER for students, even better. The resource encourage staff who teach to adapt, adopt, create, share OER to boost the presence of Irish higher education created OER at national and also international hubs and platforms. So I think it's now time to share the resource with you all. Yes. So we've done a lot of talking about this resource but we haven't really shared the resource. So I think we need to do that. And we are happy to share it with all of you today but you're the first people to to see it outside of our small group of developers and reviewers. It is a work in progress. And I think Claire you're going to you shared the link in the chat. Yes, thank you. It is a work in progress and we just wanted to to reinforce that. We hope it will be useful and supplement and compliment the work that's already going on in institutions, but we really also want to hear back what you're doing and what might be included in the resource. So Claire is going to do a little bit of a walkthrough and then we're going to break up into small groups, just to have some smaller discussions with you about how you think the resource might be used. I hope everyone can see the resource on the screen share now. So you have the link to this in the chat and we invite you to open it into your own web browsers or into a separate tab. You should see this landing page and we encourage you to use the start here button to begin and just to guide in terms of navigation briefly. There are four main sections you can access them from here on the landing page through clicking on the images or the more info. But those menus are replicated across the top as well so I'll just visit one of them here so we can go into understanding open. And you'll see you have the drop down appearing there but also then this nice visual tile format on the page so you can begin to work through the resource in this way. And then just to visit one piece of this to show you how that will look. You'll keep again the menu on the sidebar here to enable you to walk through it easily at any stage. And we have previous and next also later in the page for you to use and you'll note that we have fields open for comments and feedback within each section of the resource if you prefer not to do that in the resource itself. There is some provision around keeping your details private there. But additionally, there's an option to email feedback and we do really warmly invite feedback and comment to enable the further development of the resource. And the final piece there is all the resources that we have used to help develop this and to bring it to this point at this stage today. So we'll return to the homepage. And I think, I think at this stage, we'll get ready to to move into the next part of the session. We, what we'd like to do now I know that a couple of people have to leave early but we're hoping that many of you might stay around to speak with each other as you look through the resource and maybe to share some ideas and some ideas. So we're just going to post a list of sample questions to prompt discussion, please don't feel constrained by those we really would just like to break into our breakout rooms. They'll be randomly allocated there'll be one person in the breakout room was a facilitator it'll be either a member of the project team one of the four of us, or someone from the National Forum. And we'll just stay in those breakout rooms for we have about 15 minutes to do that and then we'll come back to the large group and deal with any larger questions or comments. Okay, so I hope that you'll stay around to do that we look forward to hearing from you. I'm not sure I get what happened in the other breakout rooms but it was really lovely to be able to have a smaller chat about what we're doing some really thought provoking questions. I'd like to ask anyone if perhaps some questions came up in your breakout room that that you weren't able to have answered or that you thought were really important that you want to share with the big group please put them in the chat. We can we have a little bit of time just in this larger Q&A. I'll mention something that came up in the room I was in just to reiterate that this resource is licensed with a creative commons CC by license. It is one of the most permissive and open licenses that one can use. And it simply means that you can use the resource in whole or in part to do whatever you'd like with it you can use it in whole you can take it apart use pieces of it adapt it. Like and all that's required is attribution, you know, to the national forum, that's it. So, we really like people to use it. So, any any other, any of the other breakout rooms have anything come up that they'd like to share back. Brian, see your, I see your question here. The vast amount of resources developed this year how can we exploit them and sure they're not lost after lockdown institutional or national approach or via the forum is Ronan here. Ronan, would you like to speak. I am yes, and this is I suppose a wonderful introduction to the area of resources in Ireland, and we are also working on designing and developing a national resource hub. The national forum has a resource hub on its website. And what we've been doing over the last few months is engaging with the sector to find out, I suppose features and discussions around resources and how they would like them presented so we're actually working on the idea of a national resource hub, where we'll have open education resources for the, the Irish context, and in a very searchable, very findable way. And that means that the resources as people population contribute would be able to tag and metadata. I suppose tag them with metadata to support that. So that's going on and is due to be launched in the middle of June. And that'll be a place where people can find, look for resources, network, and also develop, I suppose, contribute and even submit their resources to be included. So it'll be a really good build on this and I think that's something that will really help the sector and, and what you've seen here today. Thank you so much Ronan and that is due to the, the first development of that will be released in June. Is that the plan. Yes, middle of June. Yep. June 18. Yeah, that's the plan. Okay. Yeah, so really the, the, the main purpose of this resources about building capacity, you know, open education capacity within the Irish higher education sector, and the hub is going to be, you know, a space where people can can share, you know, share and search for resources. Questions now. The resource looks great James Brunton I think in the early section showing why OAP some boys are possibly reframed in terms of practical problems that could be solved using a particular OAP. Do you find that students do not have textbooks using an open textbook would remove barriers to obtaining the textbook. Indeed, James and these are just the kinds of things we know there's experience in the Irish higher education sector in many of the areas that are in the resource. Like you James view you've experienced in this, that's just the kind of feedback that we would like to get and we can, we would like to continually improve the resource with that knowledge that's in the sector so thank you for that. And just that we'd like everybody to know that as well if you if you read a particular page or section and just think oh I know something wonderful that could be included here. Let us know there's a comment box as Claire said on every page of the resource. Any other questions, perhaps for me that maybe the facilitators at the breakout rooms like to relay, can you key questions. I would like to comment on an interesting conversation that took place in the room in terms of those boundaries, and that culture. That may exist in the, in the, in the teaching population around intellectual property of resources and the possible barriers and resistance points as opposed. Perhaps any of the members in in in my group, I would like to elaborate on that. Um, but basically, yes I think so you're coming on my case in us. I'm just coming in sorry. Hi everybody hi. Thank you. My question in the room was because I've been working around on sort of academic integrity issues and around academic misconduct as well recent recently. Particularly what the relationship is between we are, and the opportunities for abuse, particularly by websites such as check, or any of those other sort of file sharing online services. That's, that's a question Sue that's, I suppose in the philosophy of doing something that fosters and supports learning and teaching, and that furthers equity for a lot of very good reasons we, we, we don't want to stop that because there's a risk that some people might use it. I mean people just like tag uses might use we are they use proprietary materials as well. So that's, I mean it's kind of a separate issue I think the point about sharing open educational resources is, for example, we are students what educators who use we are assignments have found is that inviting students to create we are as part of their assignments, moving beyond this private transaction between a teacher and student to create something that's going to be shared openly enables kind of a great investment in the work, high motivation embracing student agency they get to work on something that they feel is really important, and the quality of the work is often very high and not, you know, reproducible to others, because it's about what the student is interested in engaging with and sharing with the public under their name. Yeah, it's a very, you know it's very broad discussion but open can support academic integrity in different ways rather than locking down, but just you know, opening up. So I think that's a really important point Catherine and the kind of supposed points to the interplay between the overlap of academic integrity and open educational practice I see it around the area of authentic assessment. And that is the what the scope for, I suppose, more creative design teaching design has made it take place. But happy to have that conversation in more detail as well so you know given the work that you're doing. Please. Yeah, a discussion and hours came up around one thing which has already been answered about the checklist but the second thing was about, you know, sharing of always practice somebody suggested perhaps, you know you could have scenarios or videos with people who have pushed, you know, gone, gone and done OEP practices and how they've worked out, you know, because for some members of our group it is important, like they understand OER and all that but it's actually putting it into practice and how that looks like in a real scenario. And this is people who are teaching Katrina. Yeah, teaching or supporting others who teach. One of the things that we have mentioned of throughout the resources just about finding colleagues within your institution I mean in good places to look are teaching a learning center, the library, you know first ports of call. Sometimes you might find colleagues you know in your discipline as well. Once you learn what the nuts and bolts are really it becomes more of a kind of community effort where you can kind of talk about, talk about these things but the expertise around licensing around repositories, all those kinds of things should be in your library and or teaching and learning center so it's hard to answer questions, you know specifically about you know individual institutions but all libraries have open access policies for example. And OER is really about leveraging a lot of what we already know about open access of research outputs and applying that to teaching and learning resources. So it's more about the applying it part. How is it applied or their examples of where it's being applied and perhaps have a couple examples there like, you know, when I have these OERs, I want to be an open access pedagogical person. How do I actually go about that. Give me examples of where this has been done in other institutions in wherever you know that kind of thing. Section 4.1 in the resource is has a list of examples. Okay. Okay, thanks Catherine that probably answers the question then for a favor. There was a suggestion in our room that we might over time develop maybe some video testimonials or clips with academics as well so I think I think that would just pick up on that point and hopefully we might have this scope to do that later on. That's a great idea. Yeah. Okay, and, and once again just the notion that, you know, today is kind of a point in time of a conversation but we'd, you know, the resource is a resource of course but we also would like to use it as just a way of communicating people sharing so in the chat here, or, you know, in the actual resource, please put links to, you know, relevant resources that you'd like to share with the community. We'd be delighted. We have time for maybe one more question and then I'm just going to wrap up I want to respect people's time and, and, and when we said we would. Okay. You mentioned in there that there's a new guide at DCU. Yeah, I'm sorry, I probably would have been faster just to say hi everyone and apologies for coming so late yeah we've a lovely collaboration between ourselves in the open education unit and the library. And we put together a quite a simple resource called go open a beginner's guide to open education, and it kind of is, is, is trying to get people started on those roads it's got some examples that explains some of the terminology. Because what we found is getting to grips with some of the terminology takes a bit of time. So it's a nice digital resource it's at the designers at the moment and we're going to have a launch event with your your good self featured Catherine at the end of April. It's also going to be a live guide on the DCU library website so it's quite a nice bit of work, and it was from a small bit of seed funding from the forum. So there'll be an I'll, I'll circulate the details maybe closer with an invite. Okay. That's brilliant or sorry your sound cut out there for a minute. Thank you so much. Thanks for sharing that. I'm just going to share my screen once one more time here is that showing. Okay, this is a really quick reminder about the date of our next webinar and then we'll we'll we'll say thank you and wrap up after that. Claire, can I hand over to you. And thanks so much for the opportunity just to mention this again and we'd warmly encourage and invite everyone to join the subsequent webinars, particularly the next one on 15th of April. Same time 1230. We're going to open this discussion around the agile curriculum stemming as I said earlier from the HCI pillar three initiatives, which have really foregrounded this concept of agility in relation to program design in Irish higher education so we'll be hearing from five of those projects to share their understandings and where their work is taking them in relation to that point and also hearing from a couple of employers again to enrich the discussion. That will continue in the subsequent webinar and into a national forum in site later in the year so we do really encourage and welcome your participation in the discussion around that team. That's clear. And finally, I mean, is this an overwhelming slider or not. This is just shows you how much we want to be in touch with you. As I said today is just a starting point. We applaud support and really want to maintain contact with everyone in the sector who's doing work in this area. We thank all the colleagues who did open work. It's an opportunity that has become part of this resource, and we want to keep it going so please be in touch with any of the four of us who were the developers here. There's an open at teaching and learning.ie if you want to just communicate with the team as a whole, and of course with any of us in the national forum so really thanks so much for your time today, and for all your work, and best of luck, and hopefully hear from you.