 Is the K-pop industry and Korean entertainment in general just way too stressful on people that are involved in it? To the point where they need to make some serious changes right now, we're going to talk about it. Yeah, we got to discuss this because this is going viral, especially in a lot of Asian circles on the internet right now. Moonbin, a K-pop member of the group Astro was found dead last week due to a parent suicide. This also comes with news that South Korea's Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism is passing an amendment to expand labor protections to underage K-pop idols and trainees. Yeah, so we're going to talk about this. Obviously, hopefully it's not too depressing of a topic, but yeah, I mean, we're going to go through the comments section. We're also going to talk about like, what are the main questions people are asking? Sometimes people are feeling like, oh, well, to achieve such great entertainment like the Koreans are, it's going to be a stressful environment. And then also some people want to point out that South Korea in general has a very high suicide rate just across regular people as well. So I think those are all factors that come into play. But please hit that like button and check out other episodes of the hot pop boys if you are interested in this. And I do think that there are really interesting like overarching takeaways for being Asian in general under Confucianism, to be honest. Anyway, let's get into the comments section. A lot of people are blaming it on the idol system. There's a lot of documentaries, a lot of exposés, a lot of former K-pop stars that were in the system for five or 10 years that are leaving the game that are now sort of like saying, man, to be honest, there were some great things from it. But that system was too toxic and too pressurized. Yeah, no. And I think that's the way it is with a lot of things like a lot of like, for example, I think a lot of people know that there's a lot of like gun deaths in America, for example. But until like it reaches a point where there's a whole bunch of mass shootings, then people are like, all right, well, I got to try to change things again. And then, you know, change comes. But some people are comparing it to mass shootings in America in the sense that like nothing's really changed in America and nothing will really change about the K-pop industry because the K-pop or I guess K-drama industry is so important to the country. Right. And at the end of the day, I think what's unfortunate is that if it breeds results, a lot of people are kind of kind of rock with a lot of the risk that comes in play. So somebody said, this is very similar to the contracts in the 1940s and 1950s that Hollywood would sign the actors and particularly the actresses too. I'm glad that America shifted, but it seems like Korea still has the old way structure. Yeah. And then it goes on to the next comment about the bad contracts. Like, if you kill yourself or leave the K-pop industry, they're just going to replace you with another trainee. And that is really sad to think about for a lot of people, especially if you go into training like Moonbin did at the age of 11. That's really all you know throughout your life, you know, and you're in this world of like self-esteem, aesthetics, performance, training to be perfect, training to be maybe somebody that you're not. Right. And you know, there's a lot of stories of this throughout the ages, whether it was in sports or Liberace being a pianist or like there's so much. No, I'm not stars are not Liberace, but like some, you know, stories of pianists or musicians. I mean, this is not just only in Asia, but there may be even more cultural Asian elements that get multi-layered in Asia. Every high pressure entertainment system or really any high pressure system in the world is going to have some of these dynamics. However, yeah, in South Korea might be more layers. Right. Because there may be even the looks, beautifulness aspect. Somebody said it's all about mental health and social media because there have been some suicide notes or expression that social media or the toxic fan base or just a pressurized fan base has been partially responsible for this. Yeah. And I think it's tough because like, I think the fans are, you need the fans to even have industry. They compose the industry. They love you. And but they'll also, you know, when there are comments on the internet, it is tough. And I think that sometimes I guess like, it might be nice to like, what if you only saw your fans in person or something like that? I don't know. It's tough because like Kelly Marie Tran from the Star Wars trilogy recently, like she got off social media due to online bullying as well, you know, and she was kind of down in the dumps for a while. Obviously, she didn't take it to the extreme level. There was also some cast members from or a cast member from terrorist house, which is the Japanese reality show that also went through a terrible time, tragic situation. Somebody said, this is only reminds me of the 1980s with the Jackson five and a little bit like it seems like that Michael Jackson story is repeating again and again in different pop worlds across the world. I mean, if you think of K-pop as a factory or a Korean entertainment as a factory and you're training these kids and young academies from a young age, like it is going to get messy because you're kind of manufacturing things. It doesn't mean that it's organic. Obviously, I think in an ideal world, you can find a lot of people who are organically look good and organically very talented, but it's also very hard, you know, for sure. For sure. I mean, I don't know. It's like I'm not too knowledgeable on this world, but definitely a clearly a lot of people on the Internet really, really have a lot to say about it. Somebody said clearly all the money in the fame cannot buy happiness because happiness is in your head and your heart. Yeah, definitely. Somebody said celebrity is toxic in general. Look at rock stars in America, Cobain, Soundgarden, the leader of Soundgarden. There have been so many suicides or accidental suicides over the years, whether that's OD from all the way back, Marilyn Monroe to Heath Ledger to, you know what I mean? There's so many things. And even just removing this out of an entertainment sense, like when you have so much pressure studying for a test or trying to get in the Ivy Leagues or you are in the Ivy Leagues or you're in college and you're super stressed out, that's a lot of pressure. So I want to say like, again, this is pressure that everybody feels at some point in their life. But obviously amongst high achievers and high pressure, there becomes the highs are high and the lows are low. For sure. I mean, this is something that is globally, right? Somebody said, you know, life for a regular citizen in South Korea has already really high pressure. That's why me and my family left South Korea to move to America. And there's this other people, there was a lot of comments just talking about Confucian East Asian culture in general, whether that was Japan, South Korea or China, just being filled with high expectations, lack of mental health opportunities and repressed emotions. Yeah. And I want to say like, I guess on the outside, looking in South Korea does have its other issues, right? Like it already had for like from 2003 to 2019, it had the highest suicide rate in the world, right? So then that's already, so I guess a lot of people. That's regular people. Yeah. A lot of people are feeling very stressed and suicide is the number one leading cause of death amongst 10 to 24 year olds in Korea right now. Yeah. And I don't want to like just single out Korea. This is like East Asia in general. Asia in general. Yeah. Japan. If you know a lot of Asians, it's kind of messed up and it's like crazy to say this. You probably know somebody who's been through this. Yes. To be honest, like if you really deepen the Asian world, somebody said when the mind is no longer strengthened by the struggle, it will begin to seek alternative options. That is the way the brain works. This is somebody leaving a comment, trying to understand the way the brain works algorithmically. Basically saying like when people see no way out, the brain starts to like output that as the outcome. Yeah. And obviously like Western mental health therapy is not really a thing that probably a lot of Asian countries are adopting. And maybe there needs to be more resources for all these trainees because listen, these trainees, they still have their own identity issues. They still have their own desires and maybe they feel locked in or maybe the contract's so bad, the contract says that their family's going to be in debt for like the next like 15 years or something like that. So that can also weigh on you. Somebody said the whole industry contracts need to get redone and the managers and the companies got to do more. Yeah. Right. That refers to potential. You know, we don't know the intricacies in the back end of like how everything works legally, like who got to pay back this advance or that. I don't know. I guess I want to talk about David from a legal standpoint for all the changes that you're trying to make. Like are people optimistic or pessimistic that these changes are even going to help? Right. You're talking about the ministry of like pop culture, basically the changes that they're handing down. I think it really comes down to the enforcement, right? Like there was a lot of environmental regulations in China on the books for a long time. But to be honest, a lot of people for whatever reason, whether it was this reason or that reason, they were able to get around them. Well, it's hard to regulate. I mean, maybe like cities like Beijing and Shanghai were doing it, but how it's very hard to regulate for all the cities in China. For example, just like maybe certain K-pop companies might enforce it harder, but there's so many other companies that are training their trainees, who's to say that they're going to be watched over with the same scrutiny? Here are some big picture comments. Somebody said, man, Korean entertainment is so great. It's the pinnacle of the entertainment world over the past 10 years, probably arguably even better than America. But what cost does it come at? If you look at Ivy League schools like Cornell, Andrew, they have a suicide bridge. In Japan, they have a suicide forest. You know what I mean? Like during finals week at Cornell Lander, they block off a bridge so you can't jump off of it. This is an Ivy League American institution. Yeah, yeah. So basically, if you're at the Ivy League of anything, and it doesn't seem like it happens in sports as much, but certainly in entertainment, whether we're talking about acting or music or drama, it seems like it's disproportionately at a higher rate. Yeah. I mean, I think one big difference is sports. It's like an athletic thing. And also, you're really taught that failing up in sports is just something you have to go through. You have to fail in order to learn. However, in entertainment and maybe academics, failure is not always, it's not an option. Right. Right. If you fail to get into Harvard, that's it. You don't get to try again. Yeah. Like for you to get back into Harvard at some other point, your life is so hard, right? So I guess like, unfortunately, that's it. Yeah. Joining us today to give us some cultural insight into this whole issue, at least from your perspective, we've got Freddie Lee joining us, your half Mexican, half Korean. You grew up around both sides. Mexico actually has one-fifth of the suicide rate as South Korea. What do you think are the cultural factors at play here? I just think Korean culture is just more stressful in general just because like they push the education value to their kids a lot. They have a lot of like after-school programs. They have tutors. They have SAT prep schools. And like it's okay to like not have like a 100 score, test score, then like a 95. Because I've seen like kids like cry over a 95 for not getting 100. Like I've seen too many of that, too many times. And you're saying does that go to, I guess, a culture of perfectionism where you got to be the best at like everything, right? You have to. Like I don't know what the parents do to discipline them, but you have to get that 100 or else it's over, game over. So can you contrast that with what is, I guess, typical more from like, I guess the Mexican side of things? Because you more grew up with around Mexican culture, but you grew up in a Korean area. Yeah. For Mexican cultures, I think like, you're most likely you're going to be in a low-income bracket, like with multiple siblings. And if you follow under this example, you're going to have like an older brother or sister who have to be like a role model or have to be more mature, act like a parent. Because your parents are going to be like having two jobs probably, at best. And no time to take care of the kids. So you have to, as an older brother or sister, have to take care of the young ones. And I think they don't have time to study. They don't have time to educate themselves because they're too busy to take care of them. They have family responsibilities, right? But what I think the young ones have the responsibility to carry on or carry the family. Because like, you kind of have everything covered for you. You have food, you have someone to take care of you, look after you. All you got to do is educate yourself so you can have like a five out of 10 education and try to like pursue a job that can rise that low-income bracket to a middle class at the end of it. Right, right, building blocks step by step. I guess you were kind of bringing up that like, in a Mexican family, they want to see you try hard in life. But if you don't get the 10 out of 10 results, they still love you the same, right? They do, they do. Because like, all matters is that everyone's here together as a family and we love each other and we will support each other no matter what happens throughout and through. Andrew, I guess, is that a little bit different? I guess, archetypically from the Asian world, it seems like sometimes the treatment is more result-centric. Yeah, I don't think it should be, but it definitely feels that way. And I think that is what's very depressive when you're an Asian kid under a lot of pressure is that you feel like your parents don't love you. And I think the way that a lot of parents do raise their kids, it definitely feels that way. So I don't blame the kids for thinking that way, but it's on the parents to remind the kid that they still love them no matter what. But then a lot of Asian parents are thinking, well, if I'm too soft on my kid, if I hug them too much and I show too much affection, even when they get Bs, then they're never going to get A's. And it's like, I don't know. That's not really, that's not always true. The Asian style does ultimately produce some sort of median, elevated academic result, but it might be obviously at the cost of other things, right? Emotional health, happiness. Fred, what do you think? I mean, you've grown up around a heavy volume of both sides. I mean, I think, well, 10 out of 10, you don't need to be 10 out of 10 if you're not trying to be a surgeon, if you don't want to be a doctor. You don't need to be an overachiever to have a decent job and live comfortably. You can be a seven out of 10. If anything, five out of 10 lowest, but seven out of 10, you should be okay living in society, especially in America. Especially in America with, there's just like a lot of money floating around in this particular game map that we're all living in. I guess long story short, man, my major takeaway is that I'm glad that people are examining it. I think any sort of high pressure situation. And you know, as much as we said it doesn't happen in sports, Andrew, it still does happen sometimes in sports. I remember there's this guy, I forgot his name, I'll pop it up. He'd recently quit the Dallas Mavericks despite being a second round draft pick in the NBA because he said he just couldn't take it anymore mentally, he switched to soccer. So like you said, I mean like, there's some people that are just, it's not everybody needs to try to become, to bring glory to their family in the most conventional ways. I think sometimes you can bring glory to your family or your ancestors or whatever, you know, however you've been raised to perceive it through just living up, being a great person and living a great life. Yeah, I will say this, doing sports and entertainment though when the fans are involved in expectations of like hundreds of thousands up to a million people are kind of weighing on you. I think that could be sometimes a different weight and that's why I think in entertainment and sports there does need to be a lot more resources for people because like rather than just your family, first of all, your family pressure can mean a lot too by the way, but sometimes like when you're getting bombarded on social media and all these fans yelling that you're messing up my bed or blah, blah, you're a bum, blah, blah. It's like, I guess you just have to be like trained for that and ultimately I think it's good that South Korea and like the entertainment industry is looking into this. I think it's the first step to helping, but I don't think it's gonna like stop 100% of people because you can't, you know? For sure, for sure. Fred, any final takeaways on this? Because I know that, you know, you growing up around both sides, even on the Asian side, you have seen depression and suicide, right? Last words, I would just say like if you are feeling depressed, just ask a friend to help out or if you're feeling that depressed, like suicidal hotline is a good place to look for and try to like... That is a good place to get immediate help, but overall I want to normalize seeking out professional help because I think it is great to talk to your friends, but ultimately like the trained professionals, that is like my general recommendation, myself as somebody who's been to therapy, myself. So, you know, let us know what you think in the comments section below, guys. Obviously, tragic thing with Moonbin and they're making some changes in the South Korean industry, but I think there's, like we said, a lot of takeaways for being Asian in general, especially if you come from a certain type of family. Of course, it matters family to family. This is the hotpot, boys. Until next time, we out. Peace.