 So could you please say your full name? Raymond James Yellowney. And where were you born? I was born in a bush actually in north of Ovisca. It was a homestead, a family homestead. Okay and when you were young what did your parents do? My dad was a tropper and that's what it says in my birth certificate and my mom was a homemaker for the first part. Okay and you as a child what were your interests or what did you do to pass the time? Thinking about that it was before I went to school I lived in a bush like that. My activities were traditional activities you know hunting with my dad or canoeing or going on a little drop line with my grandmother. All those things kids did then I did and then when I started school we moved to the community of Ovisca and there's the normal going to school while we had to walk across the lake to get to the school so in the winter anyway in the summer it's going all the way around the bay but the activities were basically for me being the oldest I had a lot of responsibility even though I was like eight nine years old my younger brothers were too young they didn't have to do anything. Did you uh I was going to school after after school I'd run my little drop line in your home you know being the provider the oldest boy my dad was working full-time so my activities were not the same as other kids in my age they they didn't have to do these chores um so I usually I'm doing things to sell help support the family. Okay and um like in a lot of families I imagine being the eldest you also had to eventually maybe help with the other kids help raise the siblings Yeah it was my role I guess my dad taught me so my my role was then to to teach my brother the others were sisters and so towards like in my teams and it was I was more involved in going to school you know finishing high school so my role ended there it was up to my dad then to teach the other ones who were not really willing to learn so I guess it stopped with me and my younger brother who I was training and who I helped you know do stuff that I did. Okay and uh what about school when you started going to school what um I guess what were your strengths or what were your interests? Going to school um it was at a time when the residential schools were in operation and but I didn't uh we didn't have to attend the residential school we were Métis at the time or non-treaty and so we we were like day school students but we still had to follow same rules so it was uh actually pretty difficult because I didn't know a word of English when I started school so all that you have to learn and we weren't allowed to speak Cree anyway uh the school yard so we we sort of from there um during the during the school years my sort of my whole life was uh you know going to school not really with a career in mind um I guess towards my high school years I still didn't know what I wanted to do there was no career planning uh the only people white people I saw were the forest warden and the priest and by then I definitely didn't want to be a priest yeah so it became uh my first goal was to be a forest ranger and uh but as I finished grade 12 and I realized my math mark wasn't high enough and I hated math so I gave that idea up and went into something else okay and which was which was recreation I wanted something that I can come back home and work uh and there was no one doing recreation so I uh I went to lethbridge after I finished grade 12 here in the city I went to lethbridge and took uh outdoor recreation and conservation education sort of two possibilities there for jobs right one is recreation being a recreation consultant or a recreation director the other one is getting involved in the environment which sort of later in years became part of what I did with uh with the work that I did with the band and with the laricina okay so what would you consider to be your first official job well in the first job that I had you know after I finished uh that college training I was hired by the government and and I guess that it was uh I was my job was to work with all the isolated communities including Wabiska where where I was from and there were seven of them all together and it was to try to promote recreation programming and try to get them in inquisiting them to develop recreation the recreation committee's recreation boards and recreation was always last on the list when you know you have housing needs you have employment you have social problems and by the time they got to me it was 10 or 11 at night everybody wants to go home so there was never an opportunity so the only way was to do that during the day you know go meet with people and try to gather interest and it was difficult to do that and definitely not successful because even today there's no recreation committees there's just each community has their own person who does into the hockey there's no minor baseball but at least there's some hockey being played and facilities are built all those things are so recreation was something I sort of did for seven years and I backed out and went into something else a different career altogether and um this was in Edmonton where you worked or I was on Wabiska okay so it was in Wabiska and then I my first job was in Slave Lake and Slave Lake was a special area in those days it was the early times with the oil and gas there Slave Lake was a boom town and the government had put some money into to create a special area where there's all kinds of programming including recreation and I was one of the recreation people and we covered like it was a group of us a team and after that the special area ended the funding ended and everybody went their own way but I stayed on as a government representative for recreation and that to me was not productive because I I was not trained at the university like they were and my my goals were not there my interests were no longer there so I went into something else okay which was well I was at a crossroads for a while I tried trapping for the first time and one winter and I did pretty good I was learning from my dad and also from other elders and that really was a good feeling you know working all day running there was no skittles or anything you just had to run so I used to run pretty 15 maybe 15 miles you know all together there and back and you leave at eight in the morning and you're back at four just was getting dark so it's a good feeling you know you get to you didn't shape I I lost 20 pounds in two weeks and okay you know just from that and very satisfying and following that I I really needed to make some money so I went in the rigs for a while worked one winter in the rigs and that was my first experience in in oil and being always asking questions of the people I was working with were not interested in teaching me so I was more there to just to make money not really they wouldn't teach me anymore than that I was a rough neck what they call the person who does the work so after one winter that was it what were your thoughts your first impressions of working in the oil fields I really I was really amazed at the amount of drug and alcohol abuse happening you know there's lots of incidents and in those days there was no such thing as safety people hung over or stone would be out there working alongside me and I didn't do that that didn't do drugs or anything so I didn't fit in but it was I was there for the money and it was good money then and and then following that I went into we had an old friend I had an organization out of Toronto called Frontiers Foundation because volunteer organization they they well recruit people from third world countries mostly students university students and brought them over for the summer to work on projects in Aboriginal communities and most of them were housing which was I guess the biggest need our people had in in Canada and so I looked after Alberta and Northwest Territories and that really did that for seven years more or less lining up projects and and finding money from governments to to pay for the cost of the volunteers and it was very rewarding you know when you get you're dealing with people from at any given time maybe 30 different nationalities a lot of African people Germany Germans English Chinese India Pakistan from all over and they mixed with our people and sort of my role was to sort of become like a cultural advisor because these people knew nothing about our people so I had to do like a cultural awareness before we start what to watch for what not to say and and and that became very I guess rewarding because you're you have so many people relying on you and at a given time I think I had both maybe 60 or 70 volunteers from different place in different projects and to visit them and make sure they have no issues I was like I sometimes leave midnight to go to a place you know six hours away because there was an incident and no matter how cold it was I'd be on the road colder and this sometimes heading to Northwest Territories and on by truck was very stressful because 40 below out there the heater can't keep up with the cold and so it was fun though you know your truck to fail too yeah I guess it could have I just didn't pay much attention in those days you know you're young and invincible you can do so you became kind of almost like an ambassador to a lot of people the coordinator yeah and at that time I guess that's when I started worrying about our people trying to help our people because instead of housing there were other needs so I changed the program here in Alberta a little bit where we went into recreation community development there are some that did designing houses because we had all kinds of skills we had architects from Germany we had plumbers and electricians that were volunteering so you know we put them to work using their expertise youth work was a lot was welcomed in the communities because before that there was nothing so these people would stay there longer than two months sometimes and and then they become very I guess useful to the communities because they were helping them address their their issues so that was I did that for another seven years and what were when you said you that's when you really first started to realize the issues with with Aboriginal people what were what became your priorities are the things you saw as needing to be priorities for for your people it was to help them it was always from that point on because my mom was always after I think 1960 where she she had health issues so she had to she got to speak things language really well you know from as a kid she was in the hospital right till in the 60s and when she was in her 30s she would be a spokesman for the community because nobody else was educated you know they had residential schools but they ended at grade nine so very few people went beyond that and and so the leaders were all uneducated and so she became like a spokesperson community development person she she was a government people were scared of her but you know there was no reason because she was she was only speaking for her community that's what she was it wasn't the personal thing for her but trying to make things better for the community right so she she I guess was kind of a role model for you she'd be one of your mentors always be you know thinking about that quite a bit she died five years ago but I was wondering where this drive came from because ever since that first job with recreation where I started working with my people I always always trying to find something trying to find a better way of life or help them get to a better way of life after the frontier's job I worked with an organization that worked in the courts and that's where I saw lots of problems with our people and so I became interested in helping them change their life around okay and so that became my goal but it's all because of what my mom I learned from my mom that's where I got the drive from and what were some of those problems that you started seeing alcohol alcohol and drugs and dysfunctional families all associated with residential school experiences are people that were what were brought up in a residential school they didn't have the skills they know their parents had skills that they got from their parents well if you're spending nine years of your life in a residential school there's no opportunity for the parents to pass on those skills so those are the ones that were suffering and then their children as well it just never stops so you go to court and you see these guys they're not criminals yet they were the brand of a criminal and it became more important for me then to work with them try to get them to change their life around working with other agencies and it wasn't my role I was told by the people I worked for my goal was to bring stats so that the funding would continue right but I wanted to do more and from there I developed different programs okay one was an elders counseling group that did instead of being sentenced by the court the judge sent the kids to this group of elders and we started that in 1990 that became one of the greatest achievements I guess because those elders they stuck to the the idea of working with the community till they started passing away one after the other there's still one left of the original group and she's in the home now I'm working with her with their the children of those people but after that we also formed organized or developed a young offender camp in the community in Wabiska and I was instrumental in doing that and after I left the organization Native Counseling Services I worked with a band again and negotiated the camp with the provincial government and we ran I think it was an eight bed facility and I went to the to the UIOC which is the the place where they keep offenders youth young offender center and I want to view the kids and I picked the ones that are related to our community so there's about five or six different communities where our people were coming from and that's where I go I go no matter what the record was these weren't really dangerous kids is mostly involved with petty theft mischief but they over a period of time they built up the record so they get sent to a facility and there's other ones I brought back to the community and it was successful and I I did that for two years and then let somebody else run it after that and how did you eventually get back into the oil business I guess with laricina well after I left most of my main job for seven years but in between there I got into something else and this this time I was involved in like a healing center in another community I was I was asked to take over the program it was from the Aboriginal Healing Foundation again there was a fund in there so I ran that for a year and then I quit and I went back to Wabaskan worked at a job working with industry but in a smaller scale and then the banned position came up to be a consultation manager that's big stone creation so I expressed my interest and they hired me without an interview basically so I left from one job to the other and I guess in the in the four years I was with the band I was really interested in in in the oil business all the oil companies had to come through my door in order to start to work they had to come through me and my staff and so one of the main ones that I initially worked with was Shell they had a big the large property there that they purchased and they were doing the initial work so they worked with our community and I made sure that our people understood what they were doing and I got everybody involved these you know we looked at economic development we worked with trappers who were impacted by the work and and then yeah that Laracena came along maybe two years later they started in 2006 and they came there with VP now Derek Keller and a couple other people and consultant and we had our first meeting and right away from from the way Derek Keller was you know talking and how he wanted to work with the community I was really impressed and shortly after that like a year later a year or so later I decided I wanted to leave the band and for personal reasons and Derek called me and asked if I'd be interested in working and you know he'd rather have me there working with industry but if I was going to leave he'd rather he wanted to hire me and he's he still didn't know what he wanted to do with me so he still had to go meet with Glenn and and I think when he came back in the new year this was like in late fall in a new year he called me and and filled me in on what he had in mind which is to be a community engagement being community engagement and work with the community and make sure they understood what the company was doing and that's how I got involved with Laracena and I was there for eight years okay and before the interview we you had mentioned kind of what what you thought of the oil sands industry before you ever got into it and what you realized they were afterwards can you talk a bit about that difference or or your thoughts well I was more more or less not really paying much attention because all I saw when I was working in the rigs is the convention oil where you're drilling for oil and dirty work and you know the rest of it like the completion parties you see the the pump jacks I wasn't really involved in anything beyond that pipelines I wasn't involved with I was aware of them but sort of I I knew that that when I started working with the band in 2004 I knew that there was a whole bunch of oil activity in our area a lot of because of the the traffic in the wintertime and and become aware of the Alberta's consultation policy the guidelines and stuff that were that were that were being used and how First Nations were were sort of gathering force against those provincial guidelines and the policy and that was around 2008-2009 so when I was working with Laracena all this was happening when I left the band the band was not really that involved with with 3D8 who was sort of spearheading all this this issue with going fighting the against the policies the guidelines consultation guidelines and I and my feeling was well I think if you want to change you should be involved to work with the government and try to come up with something that fits what the First Nations wanted but I didn't see that happening so with when I started working with Laracena it was I had to deal with that issue and and like I said before what I was dealing with was working with Derek Keller who was very very supportive and would not proceed with the project until the community was well aware and I think that's where my role was and did you ever have a I mean I assume at some parts it must have been tough to get the full support of a community yes it was the band was going through a lot of changes with their consultation office I I started I continued advising them you know they always knew what was coming because I was a sort of Laracena would never keep anything quiet and they supported the idea of me you know there's something coming up or if I hear something that another company is doing I will relay that to the band and always keeping in mind that you know our goal is to make sure that there is no that that we make we make sure that the community is aware of everything is happening we know some of them we're not going to be supportive of what we do we can never get everybody to support it but I guess the main thing is it doesn't matter about project being delayed what matters most was the community understands what's happening and that our role our way of extracting the resource was different than what they read in Fort McMurray about Fort McMurray where the mining is supposed to drilling and Laracena was all drilling yeah okay and and reusing the water and all these tailing pods all the negative stuff that was coming from Fort McMurray in the news all the time was a lot of these people don't understand some of them all they hear is what's on TV so they think that's what we were doing as well and it was my role and I spoke to them in their language in my first language and so that I'd have assessments in my office and they come and see the maps of what we're doing any trapper that wanted to they were after compensation of course but they first of all made sure they understood what was happening and we explained that to them in Crete so all that was was different than than what anybody else was doing and I guess that's the success that Laracena had there is that they had an office in the community and the only company that did that out of maybe 15 20 companies some had office in slave lake or at the basket but Laracena was the first and only one to have an office in the community okay and how I guess with with your jobs in the band stuff that's obvious that Aboriginal people were quite present but maybe when you were rough-necking and at Laracena later on how present or absent were Indigenous people at work and has that changed or with the with the rigs I worked with an Aboriginal crew and the bosses were all non-Aboriginal but like the guys that did the actual work were all pretty well as brothers you know the oldest brother had the most experience he was the what do they call them a foreman yeah some different word is a foreman but his brother other brother was a motorman who was a second in charge and then the driller the driller was the direct man was another brother and the guys I worked with the guys on the floor they did the dirty work okay so that's what I did and they again like I said they wouldn't explain to me why we were doing this and when I asked they'll say well because I told you to why I was doing this I was getting nowhere I think if they had been more willing to share what they knew I would have been involved in that business a lot sooner right and what about at Laracena how was the how present or absent were aboriginals there actually when we first started there wasn't there are many but Laracena's policy is to hire local contractors so although like for the main part of the work like the exploration they had the crews that did the work and they'd come in but any kind of work like with the construction they used Laracena used local contractors and that was the main thing that Laracena was very proud of is because we did not bring in equipment from slave lake or unless there was nothing there and that's that's what I think set us apart from other people because we didn't we worked with what was there right and if it wasn't there then we we sort of expanded there's a circle there's nothing in that circle we went beyond the circle which is the next level like slave lake Athabasca sometimes Edmonton but a lot of them were there already already in the area and but for construction road construction there was about four or five main contractors that did that they've been doing that for years it's all aboriginal owned some of them First Nations owned so it was it fit in quite well but the other thing that we did was because power engineering was one of the main trades that was used in in oil sands for for us anyway power engineering we started encouraging power engineering and other jobs like electrical and whatever else working in camps as well we started promoting that in the community so there was local contractors that were getting into that and I think in the seven years we had about four people that went for their power engineering fourth class and one of them went into and became third class but we were by then there's you know was slowing down and shutting down so that person did his third finishes third class but you know you know not doing that work because there's no work right now so we were into the schools encouraging people to go into the oil industry that's what we promoted through the college as well we tried to encourage them to bring in trades that would employ our people in the new oil field right and but as we know yeah the the mining mining and oil sector is always very cyclical right yeah yeah always some good times and some bad times right um have you seen a change since um since I guess Larry's seen an industry within your community has really integrated and have have you seen a difference with um you mentioned at the beginning a lot of like drug abuse alcohol abuse have you seen and all your work at the band has that gotten better or um um no um and I think if there was work and more opportunities local level there would be less alcohol abuse and as everywhere else uh in the news you hear of increase in crime and you know family violence uh as a result of the slowdown it's the same there but ours involves a lot of alcohol alcohol abuse a lot of drug abuse a lot of drugs coming in and I guess in a way if Larry's seen was still around the next thing we would have been doing is looking at how can we help if our our jobs were increasing this activity because of the extra money in a community how can we help the social service agencies uh to um battle the these problems and unfortunately we're just starting to get into that when you know the bottom fell out and there was no more no more work right but the thing that everybody talks about is that there there's been there's a big loss in the community since Laracena shut down the office because they come to us for everything information about other companies I always had maps of what other activities happening around Laracena projects and people would be there every day wanting to know more and we started community awareness uh there I also did community awareness programs with uh the cultural awareness actually uh for the company so I was performing two roles one working with the community informing them what was happening and how they can be involved and and then again educating the company about our culture and that was very well received uh throughout your your career I'm sure you had a few but do you have any example of um one of your most difficult or challenging projects um I would say there's I guess there's challenges in every in every one uh the one that I with the company um we the company decided to build a pipeline from our project to Fort McMurray area so our job was to consult with all the impacted people trappers and across the river you're heading into other territory of First Nations and uh I guess the difficulty that I had was trying to uh work with people the way Laracena worked with Vickstone and you already had a different process there there is no there was no bending from that uh it money talks you pay so much for consultation I think it was like something like uh 30 or 40 thousand dollars to become a member and then Laracena was only there for a certain time so you know they wouldn't budge from that and I had to let the the company deal with it because I was in no position to be negotiating money and it wasn't my role my role is to show them to tell them what was happening make sure the impacted land users were aware of what was happening and and all that uh I guess it was difficult in my part because there were so many issues that I couldn't address um mainly it was money that these people wanted and I and I couldn't uh I wouldn't even go there because that's not my role my role is to make people understand what was happening and and I think uh for the Wabiska part everything that I did I involved the the consultation office and the trappers who were impacted the most by the project thank you different segment here this this are more opinion questions uh first one is do you believe there's a disconnect between the natural resource industries and um Aboriginal people and then I'll ask the same thing for all of Canada as well yeah um there is a disconnect and we I think we addressed that as much as we could when I was with Laracena and the company they they were aware of what the issues are in the community through through my work and also they were able to uh um address whatever issues the community had the chief and council if they wanted a meeting well Derek and Glenn would be there and and uh the part that I didn't really appreciate a little I wasn't invited they wanted the head people and I think Laracena wanted me there but you know the leadership said we want to meet with the the decision makers so that was uh they became I think most First Nations became more interested in in in the economic part the money uh wanting partnerships you know but they wanted money and I that wasn't that wasn't my role that the disconnect is that a lot of them were a lot of companies were not signing agreements but they were sort of funneling money into the community um as far as the other there's a disconnect um mainly because um in my opinion there's a lot of anti oil and gas uh anti pipeline and even now to this day I'm still uh promoting um working with oil companies even pipelines you know there's all all kinds of opportunities for communities to get into to work with pipeline companies uh work out agreements and I didn't see that happening and I I noticed uh going to the listen to the news and watching what happened at Standing Standing Rock and in uh North Dakota the uh there was an opportunity to negotiate but and I think maybe some oil companies like that they they allow ignorance and arrogance to to lead the way there was no compromise there was no working with the First Nations especially in in estates in in here it's changing here in Canada because every community now has their own every First Nation has their own traditional area and the governments have been very supportive of helping them protect or at least so that they're ensuring that there's meaningful uh consultation and trying to work out some kind of uh an agreement with with the First Nations and in uh with Standing Rock they just let it let it go too long you know um there's the oil company they were funded by three Canadian banks and everybody knows that they were pushing for his oil through Indian lands and there was a block blockade there so first question I had when they started why not negotiate go around now the plan is to go around you know like spending what three months uh wasting time all the actors coming in there all the you know servicemen that came there to to support before that happened they they should have been settled and that's what we were saying friends of mine are still in the business they they talk about the pipelines they know that we're facing problems at BC uh how the uh the bands are against and all the environmental groups are supporting them and and I think I still think that they couldn't negotiate it some kind of arrangement uh if I'm going to be fighting for the environment you know my my traditional area where I hunt and I gather and I drop or where the animals are the habitats and stuff I'd want to be involved in what's happening so I'd want the government to pay for my involvement somehow maybe train people or start businesses where they monitor the pipeline or little things like that would go a long way and some of the companies that I talked to were we're going into that but there's still going to be people that'll be against this this pipeline that's my phone and I see that and my role is different now so but I'm still always going to be a supporter of what Lersina did you know they they uh they started they changed consultation uh and uh for the company that that that's what sold me with that company is they weren't they weren't there they you know they what they didn't know they wanted to learn and that's the key and that's what has to be done with our first nations is they're not always going to be against but they just want to be a part and I think that would address a lot of the social problems maybe get bands more more into business like you know you talked about Jim Boucher up in Fort McMurray he's got a good uh good business sense and he's really done a lot for for the band and uh I think he's a leader in the in in that area with the working with industry and he he worked with industry he doesn't uh block or you know he he knows what's best and he also knows I don't know how much can be done but there's a lot of land on reserve that's being destroyed by the oil company and then I and in in our community the the impact is different and and that's what Lersina promoted is that the impact could be minimal but we what we promoted was well show us how we can share the land we're not taking it over and Lersina did a lot to work with the troppers you know we we built one guy at a cabin and we built roads for people we helped them with access roads and different activities like that that we helped with uh if they needed a road graded to their tropeline cabin or if we had equipment there we we plowed the road in through and uh that has to be done and there's still you know the impact is small there can still trap in that area but they they respect they respect that yeah so it's all about involving them in a business sense and and it's about communication and yeah transparency too yeah and uh what I said about arrogance and ignorance that might be the same I think in some cases with our first with our oil companies in that come to our area they uh they don't like I said they don't have an office in the community so they they just go by you know they try their meetings with the band and a lot of times they don't they're not in good terms with the band and I noticed that I still work with the band in those same same buildings so I see them coming and going some of them I remember from when I was with Lersina and they're coming there and they're not getting very far and you know I think that has to change Lersina started something I think should be continued by all the companies they should show more presence in that community be a part of the community um last question here and then I'll finish with a few closing questions how do you see the future of Canada's resources and when I say resources I talk about its its environment the environment and its relationship with its people and industry are we on the right track or not I think um mostly Canada has the right idea the Alberta government is you know started off in the wrong foot and but they're now sort of backtracking and uh I I know that the prime minister is getting a lot of lack from some of the anti some of my friends are anti pipeline anti oil sands and I just don't think we'll ever be able to go back to the horse and wagon so how are they gonna you know they are they gonna continue uh it's kind of to continue buying oil from the states and Saudi Arabia you know what we have so much oil that we can you know bring up in in our in our in the north northern Alberta they what they want is for the oil to stay in there and they don't consider what what that has what impact that has on our economy and the number of people that are that are you know went to school to get into oil and gas are no longer able to work and I think there's a way to to sure worry about the carbon worry about global warming but you don't stop industry just just to address that issue you can always technology is always improving you know oil sand oil spills pipeline breaks are addressed immediately so that area has to I think that's where the focus has to be with industries to make sure that each spill they learn something from that and I think they do but industry oil companies I mean communities and environmental groups don't care about that they they they they preach to our first nations about what can happen if there's a spill you know what how much harm it can do to their water to the environment in general and like I said before our first nations should be involved in monitoring you know our first nations should be taught how to be how to be a first on call for oil spills how to be involved directly and I I really think that's the answer there you can never prevent spills or accidents but as long as our people are involved right from the start and that's what we try to do with Laracena I get a call if there was something serious happening three in the morning sometimes and I'd call my contact so the process starts right there but this is towards the end of Laracena community this was what we were doing and if they were doing something even for another company if they're near our camps to make sure we know about it for safety reasons if they're coming to our gate let us know where you're going we don't care why but so we know where you're at so our safety people can know if you get into an accident and that happened then they didn't tell us and you know nothing major but somebody some people were left out in the cold overnight because they didn't tell us where they were going he just went right through and so there's things like that I think that's one thing that Laracena brought is their safety is the main concern but also involved in the community and everything that they did a few last closing questions the first one is what are you proudest of in life or professionally I think the last eight years of my work in career with Laracena that I think has to be the highlight I wish I started that first I probably would have still been in the business but in those days there was no such thing as consultation in the in the 70s when I started work but now with the way Laracena operated it really fit my goals and and when I told that when I asked the leadership asked me why I left I said I thought I could do more for this community working with an oil company and that's what kept me going because the company really wanted that as well they wanted to make sure that our community benefit benefited from that and Glenn has said that a number of times we're there for a short time the committee lives there lives there forever and they'll still be there when we're gone like we don't want to create an impact that's going to be negative like they want to leave something behind that's positive and I really think they did and last question what are the sorry if you were to if you were to talk to someone much younger like a like a child or a student what would be the most important life lesson or a piece of advice you'd give them looking forward um well there'd be a number number of them one of them is to make sure they understand you know an aboriginal person especially what what our traditional lands are about you know what are what are people did on that land and how much of it can we learn from from this history how much of that can we learn from as we go forward and and how can we um I guess maybe not live in two worlds but you're you're trying to get a career trying to decide what career you want to go into you know from high school I'd still say go in the oil and gas it's here for the long term but also make sure you understand what are what our people were here for that our people were when they were um we hear a lot of elders say our role was to be keepers of the land keepers of the animals the creator gave us these animals to to eat and to for shelter uh clothing it's up to us to to manage that and I really believe that because you know the way it is now people are don't really see that um they see um like the environment they don't go they don't go in a bush anymore our role as teachers now I have elders working with me is uh not that I'm working in justice it's just sort of a little different uh in a way it my role is the same though more like an agent of change you know I want to uh make sure these people understand what it was like to live in a bush how do how do you track an animal how do you prepare a snare you know how do you start a fire safely in the bush how do you uh how do you survive in the bush all these things are being taught by our elders now and so what I'm doing working with people that are getting into trouble with the law uh part of their sentence might be while you're going to go with the trapper you know in a bush for you know two or three trips or a week long camp or or maybe it's go help this elder fish you know he's getting older so you will be helping him and in the winter it's a lot of work so out of it you get the experience and you bring home fish for your family and then the judge and the prosecutor are sort of looking at these as well we're not doing much good in the with our justice system you know every year there's more Aboriginal people in going to court and into jail there's a big population Aboriginal people in jails the the judge says and I and I'm there most of the court days at the start of the session he'll say there's something wrong here you know 80 of the cases before me you guys it's all alcohol related you know there's 10 10 cases of impaired driving he said when are you going to change and these guys are they keep coming back they keep going to jail now because it's your second or third offense so my role then is while it may be with this new job it might be this person's third offense but it's not doing him any good to will spend 30 days in Fort Saskatchewan how about if he did something more productive here in the community go and count go into counseling you know we're going with his family with his wife to counseling doing something in a bush and the elders say it's healing it's a very important very important to him as part of healing to go back to doing some of these things no trapping will never be in the industry anymore but it's a it's a way it's a treaty right our people did that from as far back as anybody can remember and it it's got a healing quality here you're doing something in the land and and that's what these elders are preaching everywhere I read in Northwest Territories in Fort Good Hope for example they have the same thing they take people that are involved in drugs and alcohol they're taking them out in the bush teaching them all these life skills so in the Yukon they had a canoe trip that was 8 weeks to 10 days long from one community to Dawson city I think and they take a traditional canoe a big canoe and they lived off the land and all these things are happening and that's what we're shooting towards in our community as well and and I really am we're starting to get a lot of support the police supported the prosecutor is very interested in in doing something and and a judge and and our people are at a point where they they really need help and and relying on big stone creation to to to provide the answers and that is what we're trying to do I think yeah I think the bush works a neat idea yeah I think it's is there anything else you'd like to add I think we missed I think professional organizations that I've been involved with again it was always involving Aboriginal people in there was a time where I was on a board for children services provincial we were a regional board and that was very rewarding because you know we had we worked with social workers and people that worked with Aboriginal people and we were through the board we were able to help help the region I guess because they did everything with foster care and and you know dealing with people that are on social assistance and stuff like that word involved the family and then also right now I'm with a board called six medicine lodge it's a treatment for youth and it's at just outside Calgary in the first nation and I've been on been with them for five years now and very rewarding because everything they do is what I'm doing over here in Wabiska although I don't only work with youth but I've sent two youth to that facility from from there that were getting into trouble and so far they're doing good and I'll continue doing that and I'll continue being a part of you know organizations like that because I think I have well they think I have some to offer for my life experiences and they seem quite rewarding as well oh yeah yeah when you see the the reports and you know the I attended one graduation and I couldn't believe the difference with with the girls I went to a girls graduation after four months they came there rough you know dressed rough and all gang style drugs and alcohol and and then four months later you see them in gowns and you know where they're making presentations in front of a group of people family that's the most rewarding part you know seeing that great feeling well thank you very much well I hope I did something said something that you can use it was great