 We had the best time doing the initial breakdown of the body language and behavior in this video, and we decided we'd revisit some of our favorite moments from it. So, when you and Gannon are out running around to these places and, you know, getting your gas and your coffee and like Petco a couple of times, and does he, does he go into the affairs with you? No, but... Here's what I see that seems, you know, so abnormal for any kind of situation like this. The dynamic range and the amount of the regulators and illustrators, regulators, sometimes what I call moderators, are the things that, you know, tell other people, look, I'm in charge of this, I'm going to keep talking or might go, no, it's your turn, you give me, that there are ways that we control to an extent conversation. So there's lots of those in there, she's trying to control it, lots of illustrators, lots of ways that she's very dynamically, again, more extremely trying to show us the story to the extent of, you know, jumping up and miming it out for us. So there, huge dynamic range because they're going from sitting to standing to sitting again, and it doesn't elongate for a very long time, she doesn't keep it for a very long time. So what does that tell me? That tells me that underneath what might seem very controlled and to an extent, you know, I guess, calm to an extent, bubbling underneath that is something quite extreme going on. There's some extremes in gesture from going from what I would call grotesque playing, which is down below the belt line or protected in here up into ecstatic, very, very quickly and back down again. Now, that's a range that you only usually see in things like stand-up comedy or rock and roll or something like that, you know, big stage performances, where you need to get that audience's attention, and you need to hold that attention for a long, long time, you'll use this dynamic range to control the situation. So again, why does she need to control this situation, rather than, as I'm understanding it now, there's a child missing right now. So why is the focus not there or certainly controlling the conversation to drive towards let's find, you know, a child, a missing child, you know, if that's the story that's being asked about. I part, and I know you're going to see this, so I'm going to say that I part on the front and like, I don't know if you can, you'll probably, if you see the petco cameras. She's giving us a shopping list of events, event, event, event, event, another event, another event, another event, another event. Again, seems incongruous with driving towards what the real crux of this story is. Why this shopping list of events, eventually, as I recall it, we actually will get to her kind of advocating for her shopping list. If you see the petco cameras, I'm in this, can I show you? Sure. I'm in the store a lot of times walking back to the front door doing this. In this video, we're seeing somebody who thinks these details are relevant. We already, she's already seen what happened, knows what happened and somehow believes she needs to act out her behaviors to detectives hours and hours before this thing happened. So just think to yourself, what kind of person would think that these details are relevant and extremely relevant? And they would bring maybe papers in there, but they'd be photographs of the child, what he was wearing, some medication allergies, medicine studies on birthmarks, those kinds of things. So this is all what we're seeing is permissive behavior. It's about giving the interrogator some kind of control, making them feel like they're in charge. It's kind of like saying, hey, I'm not a threat, I'm cooperating. It's a way of reducing some tension and conflict. It's also a way of avoiding confrontation. So they're hoping she is, by being compliant, they're going to, you know, get off easier. It's also a way of humanizing themselves or herself, just making it harder for the interrogator to see her as a suspect or a criminal. Like I'm just, I'm not a monster. And what she describes, going back to check on him, it's funny she can't think of a reason to explain her actions. I'm in this, can I show you? Sure. I'm in the store a lot of times walking back to the front door doing this. And my point of doing that is because I was making sure that I didn't see him like, you know, if he needed something or like getting out or whatever. Right. But and I, and I, and I did keep walking to the door. Sure. This over time. And I'm pretty sure I didn't know I'm the second visit to. She has trouble explaining why she returned to check the vehicle so many times when an innocent person would understand their motive clearly behind doing this. And she cannot say the word check on him. Walking back to the door just to make sure, you know, I could be, was like, oh, she's not saying that she makes up random stuff there. The layout of this interrogation room is pretty damn good. It's how I would advise some departments to do it in some situations with one gigantic exception. And that's having a glass top table in the room. And I think it's a horrible idea for obvious reasons. When you and Gannon are out running around to these places and, you know, get your gas and your coffee and like Petco a couple times. And does he, does he go into the see a classic move here from, from in the adapters category? She does Rodney Dangerfield. She actually does this on his shirt. She says, oh, it does that to get some heat out of there because she's heating up and she's going along. Rarely do you see, you see classic pictures of people going, that's, you know, it's, I don't know, man. So they're with the, with the actor or the fake person acting like they're lying and they'll do that. But that was, man, that was, it happens fairly fast. Man, it's good. Still so much head touching, so much face touching. So many adapters happen here. They're flying around everywhere. So you're just in their shop and it wasn't even a long shop, right? That left leg turns into a barrier to the detective on the ride. I think she hits on some points that she sees as a danger subconsciously because I don't think she consciously is doing that when she wants to get away from her. So that leg goes out, completely sticks straight out from what she's doing. Greg brought this up yesterday. We were talking about the reflection we're seeing in there from the, from the mirror that's above at what might be the door. I don't see anybody moving around in there, but, but yeah, I didn't, the whole time I'm seeing them around. But I think that's, that's fairly interesting that, that it's not that they don't, they're not thinking this is going to be used for YouTube. They're not thinking they're ever going to use this video for anything else just to get that information. That's why the sound is always so horrible and usually the video is just horrendous. But most of the time the sound is worse in this case. If you, you got to go, I hate to do this. Yeah. I need to, I need to run out. I'm going to, I'm going to come back. Okay. Okay. It shouldn't take me very long. Maybe that detective steps out because she's got to go say, you guys got to come up here and watch this, but, but nobody came up to the room to watch. So she's checking on something. She's gone out of the room to go take a look at something, check on something. She just said to make sure everything is, is good with that. That's my understanding because why in the world would you leave that room? No reason to, but you do that all the time. But quite often you do that and nobody's in and you let them sit there and think about what just happened. You leave them with a, with a question that isn't answered. And you say, listen, I'll be back in just a couple of minutes and you leave for like 10 minutes. You know, let them think about it. You can watch and you go back and watch while the monitor, you can watch them squirm and think about what you said. It's, it's that they would talk about like that mind virus. You put a little thing in there and they just, it just grows and squirms around in there. And I think you're right, Marcus. I think we're seeing a form of panic in there. She's, she's getting all kinds of worked up and she's trying to control it. And those personality types like she has, those will go up and down. The more excited she gets, the more she's going to move around. And the more she's thinking, man, I, she might be thinking, I've got this. This is great. I'm going to get away with it, but you know, I'm protecting myself as I go along. I think she gets so excited. She can hardly stand it. Taking from somebody who gets all worked up sometimes and she gets worked up, I think fairly easily. So I think that's a form of panic. And every second is accounted for with her Starbucks. I made a wrong turn. And then two times at Petco. Every second is a cow. We did this. I took this many steps to this. It's almost like that. Everything is accounted for. She should have literally just a minute, minute amount of memory for those things, because her whole being and brain should be focused on where is this, my child or my stepchild or whatever it, my, where is this kid at? Where is this child? We don't see that at all. Still no grief, still no sadness, still no, oh my God, you know, what do you need from me? None of that. Just telling what happened. Second by second, minute by minute. That is, that is, I've never seen it to this degree before. Number one, there's something she's trying to get out. Is the reason she's being so friendly? And is the reason she's doing it? She's already put out one piece of information. And there are some like Hispanic, and I'm not saying that to be like discriminatory, they were Hispanic people. We got it from the guy on the scene. I gave him our code to get in. There was a Hispanic guy that I went to and I gave him this code. Boom, there's one. Now she's got to tell you why she was doing something in front of a camera, because she brings up the fact their cameras. If you see the pet code, cameras, and you're going to see me going back and forth to check my car. She knows where this parts of her store that are going to come apart are, and she's trying to give you reasons why it's okay. That's why she's ramped up, is she's trying to make sure that you buy into whatever it is she's doing. Look at that romance or that locked eye contact. She's doing her best, her best, to ensure that they're falling for whatever she's saying. Let me talk again about Liar's Loop. In Liar's Loop, we say you've got a trigger. In this case, the child's death would be a trigger or disappearance. Then you've got to fabricate. So she is probably smart enough that she's fabricate, fabricate, fabricate, fabricate. Unless this is premeditated, and she's playing this out for a long time, which is even worse, either way is a bad thing. She's going to fill in any plot gaps that she can. She's going to think through the process, and so she's going to come up with, why would I walk back and forth and check my car? Because that's going to make me look suspicious. The fact that you bring it up makes you look damn suspicious instead of just suspicious, because now you've got an embedded confession going on. Once you get to that fabricate, you have to de-conflict that with the rest of your story. So why would I have been at the pet code running back and forth? Don't know, but she's got a reason to cover it. And if you don't believe she's fabricated and de-conflicted her story, preparing to pitch it and then have to defend it against you, she says these words. Do you need to know what I did in there? That's a source lead all day every day. Of course I need to know. Even if you don't need to know, I would ask. She's prepped. When she says that her legs thrust and she starts to adapt, that makes me go, something's up, something's different. I think that leg thrust is a regulator, and I think it's her pushing people away as she does that. And then she goes into what I call the multimedia show. Look, I brought props, and then she gets up and starts to body illustrate in mind to your point. What the hell? You don't see that. And guess what? No horror. Not to mention the kid's name other than to tell you when I was checking on him. Chase, you started off right in the beginning with something I've said many times on the show and in my training. The truth doesn't need support, but Eli loves a crutch. And those crutches are things like pictures and timelines and details about things that don't matter. Those things give me some kind of strength. If my kid were missing, I would have said, look, we went to Petco, took about an hour, we came back home and happened when we got home. This is what you need to talk to me about. We don't hear any of that. We don't hear any of that. And if I were in her shoes, I would have called a lawyer, but I think she's too smart for a lawyer. The last thing I'll cover, and I said I'd go along on this one, is she says, I will tell you. I will tell you on the way, on the way there. When you're emphatic, usually have something to tell, not another place to hide time. That's all she's doing inside. Don't trust her. Sorry, dude. I think we might have different versions of my Android. So anyway, this neither here nor there. So when you and Ganon are out running around to these places and, you know, get your gas and your coffee and like Petco a couple of times and does he go into the doors with you? No, but I parked and I know you're going to see this. So I'm going to say that I parked on the front and like, I don't know if you can, you'll probably, if you see the Petco cameras. I'm in this, can I show you? Sure. I'm in the store a lot of times walking back to the front door doing this. And my point of doing that is because I was making sure that I didn't see him like, you know, if he needed something or like getting out or whatever. And we, he stays in the car like, I really didn't stay in the car all the time with like, if like Lena's in the car and he'll be like, it's okay, stay here, stay here buddy, we'll be right back. Don't take anything of it because he had a switch with him and he was playing the switch. Did he know what store you were in? Yeah, Petco. So like, if he needed you or whatever else. Right, right, right. But and I, and I did keep walking to the door. Sure. This over time. And I'm pretty sure I didn't know him the second visit to walking back to the door just to make sure, you know, I could be, I was like, oh, sure, if I need you or whatever. Sure. So yeah, you can see that on there. So when I, do you need to know like what I did in there? Or you just, or you're just in there shopping. And then it wasn't even a long shop. Like, like it wasn't. And then you come, they come back out and then where do you go? So I sort of, I know we were right in that area, like different places, but I don't think I stopped anywhere else specific to get anything other than Starbucks, I made a wrong turn. And then two times at Petco. And I was at the four Marshalls, but. After the second time at Petco, did you go anywhere? I think after that Petco is when we started to head home. Okay. So you go home. And I wanted to, I want to give you like an accurate of that. If I pulled this up because I don't, I feel like right after Petco to be home, I don't want to try and bring it up. Yeah. I don't want you to think that I missed a stop or something. And I will tell you on the way, on the way. We did stop and get gas somewhere. Okay. I can't remember if it's on the way there or way home. Do you remember what station? But we did stop and get gas. A shell, getting 11. Here. If you, do you got to go? I hate to do this. Yeah. I need to, I need to run out. I'm going to, I'm going to come back. Okay. Okay. It shouldn't take me very long hopefully. But please continue talking with Detective Houston. And then whenever I get done with that, I'm going to come back in and we'll get back on again. Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to pull this up. And the guy was in there. And I gave him the code. The guy from the, yeah, it's all my fault. Because I gave him our code to fix the carpet. She's suddenly very emotional about giving the guy the code. And she wasn't earlier. I gave him our code to give in. I mean, why now is she suddenly emotional that she gave her the code? I don't get that part number one. Number two, she's not, there's no horror as she gets home. As we got inside, I heard something. But I didn't think anything about it. Because I thought, you know, maybe, maybe Ganna was like doing something. Maybe like doing whatever. No horror at all. So I started walking upstairs. And when I walked downstairs, I hear something again. Well, at that point in time, Ganna was on the sofa and I saw him. And I heard something again. And I walked on around to where the, so Ganna's room is here. And then there's a storage closet here. Okay. And I heard something. And so I walked through the storage closet to open the storage closet. And what I do is he was standing in there. He had him go in the storage closet. Yes. There's no horror at this happened. She walked open the door. She tells a story like nothing else happened. She's still got the room answers. She's got hard eye contact. Those spot-welded elbows now have turned into T-rex. So now we're seeing her hands do all this kind of stuff. Until at one point, she gets up and does that dance from the 60s, the swim. You know, the only thing she doesn't do is grab her nose and kind of duck at her knees. But she does that whole thing as she's going through. There's still no horror. It would be funny if it were not for a fact. This is a child has been murdered and this person's tied into it. Now we get to the big illustrators when she gets to facts. She's over the top with these. I wonder if she has read or heard that Vray says when people move their hands a lot and illustrate a lot, they're telling the truth. Janet had a table in his room and I went back and hit my head on it. When she does that, however, if we pay real close attention, it's when she can talk about an object. Now when she's talking about what actually happened, where are they when she says this guy was inside? Where's the shock? Where's the big movement? There should be a lot of movement there. He was inside. Her tears dry after she's talking about the guy being in the closet and all that. Tears dry as she goes back talking about the bookshelf. I noticed when I had like walked in and saw our, we had like a little bookshelf thingy. It's just weird. I think these are tears are getting busted. I keep my shades in there too, but we also have like our guns and stuff. There's also another red flag. If I've got a drawer where I keep guns and stuff and I come in the house and that drawer is open, I'm probably going right back out the front door. If I don't have one on me myself, because I'm not getting shot in my own gun. That's not on my list of things to do today. But not her. She just walks on and didn't think anything about it. As she says, there's just so much here, lots of details, no horror. And of course, here's the piece she had to tell you he had on gloves because there's another de-conflict. Why there's no fingerprints from anybody by her in the house. It's just, there's so much here. I was freaking out and I swear God, I don't know what happened from there. There's a perennial favorite here. I swear to God, I don't know what happened. I swear to God, I don't know what happened. Do we bring up that swearing to some kind of deity a lot? And again, you might well say, but hang on, I say that and I'm not lying when I'm saying that. And yeah, you may well do that, but here's why in these kinds of situations, why I swear to God is an interesting thing to say. So first of all, Chase, you'll love this. It's a connection to status. It's a connection to status that really in our universe and ideas of the universe and ideas of who might be most in charge. When you get to gods, they're top of the top ranking. You don't rank a lot higher than that in my ideas of how deity structures work. God is at the very top. Okay. So there you go. I'm going, look, I'm gonna swear to the highest possible power that this, that I don't remember this. The other element here is it's impossible to corroborate that with that God. Most people would say they may have some kind of relationship, but you're not really allowed to go, okay, well, bring that God in and then let's just check that out. So you can't call somebody out on that. So you've got two factors there that kind of socially pressure us into going, oh, all right then. Well, if you swear to God, let's just leave that one alone. And also the factor is, look, if you don't remember, you know, if Greg was saying, hey, tell me about this event. And it's a dramatic event. And Greg says, well, you know, what happened here? And I don't know. I'm gonna go, look, Greg, I just don't know. I just don't remember. I just don't remember. But here's the important thing. And I get Greg back on track for like, here's the important thing. Here's what I do remember. And we've got to get going on this information. We've got to get going on this. And at no point am I going to go, look, Greg, I swear to God, because it doesn't make any difference. Me swear, it makes zero difference. The reality is, even if, you know, I had some kind of relationship with that God, it's not worth bringing that entity into the situation. So if you ever hear us say, hey, you know, there's a swearing to God at this point, that's a red flag. I would suggest that's why we tend to think it's a red flag. It's not red flag universally across the whole of life. But in these kinds of situations here, where you would know what you know and would have forgotten what you've forgotten and blacked out where you blacked out, you don't have to bring in a deity to, to, to, to substantiate that. Okay. He had one of the guns. And then he just knocked me down and like towards Gannon's room. And he was like, he's hitting on me. And it's like, I was like on the ground. He was trying to like me. She is now at the lead of the story. I'm from there on. It's like in a blur because I was trying so hard because Gannon had a table in his room and like, this is what you open up with. Yeah. This is it. Yep. It's been funny and fun and, and all that at this point. Now she gets here and she starts crying and she was, can you imagine, can you guys imagine her clearing the house, clearing her room and trusting her to go down with her gun and, and clear it and make sure everything's okay. She doesn't know anything about that. You know, she would have taken a gun, whether if that drawer was open, if she were to go forward with that and keep going in, you check and make sure none were missing number two. And you would know what was in there. You'd know each one of those guns and then you'd say, wonder what's going on downstairs. I hear something downstairs and you would go prepared for that. You wouldn't just go down there and check it out, man. That's crazy talk. You know, you go outside and you call the cops and say, hey man, I think somebody's in my house. That's what, that's what happens then. Her opening was like saying a woman's husband loses toe at beach and in reality it should have said, man eaten by shark at Myrtle Beach. But no, she waits till now. This is when she gets upset. Three-fourths of the way through, she gets all upset. She's trying, she starts off by trying to, to build rapport with this detective. She's still trying to get that thing happening. And she has more adapters and more illustrators than she's had up to this point so far. They're not the huge ones. They're fairly small, but they're there, more than any of them. A lot of fading facts, especially when she says, I made a mistake. I go in and I'm getting ready to put up things, stuff like that. This is where it got. I made a mistake. This is it. It almost goes to nothing there. And from there, I was kind of like a blur. Everything else that was going on. Because I was just like crying and I was freaking out. And I swear to God, I don't know what happened from there. I really don't know what had happened from there. I don't, okay. She can't recall the details now. Up to this point, man, she's gone second by second by minute by minute. Now she doesn't remember this. She doesn't remember anything. She's got nothing. She shouldn't have remembered anything the whole time. You know, and I can understand why she would remember this part because you remember things in sections. She would be able to remember things in flashes. That's where your brain works. That's why the hippocampus collects that information because there's a lot going on right then. So it doesn't remember that. There's no flow. It's just bang, bang, bang, bang. And you remember parts of it. And she's remembering nothing but little teeny parts of it. This, and you're right, Greg, about the gloves. Come on. You had them both. This is, this is, it's wonderful. But then she does that hard eye lock the same time. I'm not seeing any tears. She looks like she wells up a little bit, but there's no, no really deep breath, none of that guttural stuff and, and going, she should feel guilt about this, whether it's her fault or not. And she'd just be full of it of guilt. It should be that low voice coming out of those low groans of, of, of sadness and grief coming out. But she does that real high thing. Okay. She had one of the gloves. This is, this is unbiable. This wouldn't be worth anything if you had to, had to buy that. And plus her feet are pointed right at the door. She wants to get out of there so bad. She wants us to be able to see how we stand it. As a species, human beings, we've been using nonverbal communication 10 times longer than we have language. Language is relatively new to us. Now a lot of our understanding about nonverbal behavior occurs in this lower part of the brain called the limbic system. And specifically in those little thing called the amygdala and the hippocampus. And this is referred to sometimes as the mammalian brain because it's responsible for these primal instincts and emotions. So what's fascinating about this is the brain doesn't process language, this part of the brain at all. It does not understand or comprehend language. It's all about feelings and instinct. So when it picks up on little cues that something is off, like a little shift in body language or something, it gives us a weird feeling and we call that an intuition or a gut feeling that somebody's just full of crap. So why aren't we consciously aware of it? It can't send us a text message. It can't tell us or explain what it saw. So when you get a gut feeling, somebody's lying or being deceptive, that's your limbic system at work. It's picked up on some subtle cues, but those cues have been passed down by our ancestors, these tiny little cues. So instead of breaking this down like normal, I'm going to translate for you. I'm going to translate your limbic system for you of what it's thinking and why you saw this video and felt, wow, that is just disgusting. It's a horrible lie. So the first thing your brain's saying, she's folding herself over using the rib cage to protect the soft belly, which is built into mammals. Hesitancy. I know your mammalian brain doesn't speak languages, but it detects hesitancy very well in both words and actions. Then there's throat touching. So we're seeing a protective display of the arteries here. Then there's a non-answer in there. I know which door did you guys use? We always go in through the garage. Typically, we always do X, like if I ask somebody, well, what time did you leave the office? Wednesday. And they say, well, I usually go straight home at 5.15. That's not an answer. Then there's a strange drop in tone and volume. He goes in through the garage. I go in. I'm getting ready to put up things, stuff like that. And then increase in asymmetry. Mark can do a 10-hour lecture on this asymmetry idea. Then you're witnessing a human faking emotion, and your brain knows it. Your brain knew it in that part of your brain. And finally, your brain's picking up on what I call predatory behavior, which it is also hardwired to do. And here's where that picked it up. While she's pretending to cry, and our brains can see that, she's locked onto a target. She's ensuring that the information's being conveyed, and that essentially the interiator's buying it. So your limbic system processed all of that to tell you that information. Just was the translator for that. So, going on from there. Gannon goes inside, I think, first. I don't want to miss closing myself. I'm pretty sure he went in first. And I had the bag for Petco and all that stuff in my hand. Which door did you guys use? We always go in through the garage, typically, if we part of the yard, so we go in through the garage. He goes in through the garage. I go in. I'm getting ready to put up the things, stuff like that. This is where it got. I made a mistake. So, as we got inside, I heard something. But I didn't think anything about it, because I thought maybe Gannon was doing something. Maybe we were doing whatever. And the guy was in there. And I gave him the code. The guy from the... Yeah, it's all my fault, because I gave him our code to fix the carpet. And he was inside. I noticed when I had walked in and saw our... We had a little bookshelf thingy. I keep my shades in there too, but we also have our guns and stuff. I saw it was open, but in my mind, I thought maybe I left my shades or whatever. Do you like sunglasses? Yeah, okay. So I didn't think anything of it when I heard the noise. And I just started walking downstairs. I didn't walk downstairs with a gun or anything like that. So I started walking downstairs. And when I walked downstairs, I hear something again. Well, at that point in time, Gannon was on the subway and I saw him. And I heard something again. And I walked on around to where the... So Gannon's room is here, and then there's a storage closet here. And I heard something. And so I walked through the storage closet to open the storage closet. And when I do, it's him. And he was standing in there. He had on gloves in the storage closet. Yes. He had one of the guns. And I was terrified. So terrified. And then he just knocked me down to where it's Gannon's room. And he was hitting on me. And I was like, oh, I was on the ground. And he was trying to rape me. And I told her, I said, I have to tell you about this. And I'm from there on. It was like in a blur. I was trying so hard because Gannon had a table in his room. And I went back and hit my head on it with him. Gannon runs inside the room and tries to be helpful, do something, whatever. And from there, I was kind of like a blur. Everything else that was going on. Because I was just like crying. And I was freaking out. And I swear, God, I don't know what happened from there. I really don't know what had happened from there. I don't think I don't. And I'm just like, in the moment, thinking, I had like these memories of like, wow, you know, like the thing was open. He had the gun. I didn't remember what happened from there. And so I kind of like blacked out just a little bit. And so all these things are going through my mind is I'm blacked out. I don't know if like, I know he was like, when Gannon was like trying to get on him, I know he was like moving Gannon and, you know, like, and it was just all like, it's so like a cycle for me.