 We're talking Ruby volume nine spoilers. If you're not caught up, go get caught up and then come back. Please. Cat's out of the bag, so to speak. So now we've seen the cat's true intentions. What was it like navigating around that? Difficult. You know, I think even starting the design and then the writing and the voice acting and everything, people are probably gonna figure out that something's like a little off with the cat. But how do we delay that as much as possible and also make it still feel rewarding and I'm really happy with how it turned out and Robbie Damon did an amazing job. Oh my God, it's so good. Having that low moment where it looks like, okay, the cat's finally coming in to save Ruby one more time and then, not this time. Have you ever had a cat betraying me before? This is the first time I've had a cat betraying Lindsay. This is the most ironic situation. Extra cruel is what that is. I feel like we put a lot into some of the earlier beats of the cat throughout of like, look, they're only doing positives. They're saving this person, they're helping out here just so that we could point and be like, look, they haven't done anything wrong yet. I still trust them. Well, and part of it too, it's like, we were okay with audiences watching it. It's like, oh, this doesn't feel entirely like something's off here. And then John kind of points it out and then making it feel like it ends there. But one of the things we wanted to do, and now it feels like we can talk about it, right, is to have something that ties this back into what's going on on Remnant and for the cat to reveal that like, oh, wait, the same brothers that made humans and stuff on Remnant also made the cat. So that blew my mind, I don't know, cool. Yeah, I think really early on people might think this is like a filler season or has nothing to do with like the main plot. Quite the opposite, one of the most important. Super not, you know, there's already so many connections and there's more coming to that, you know, deviation does not have to be a filler, I guess. It's always fun too when, you know, a character goes bad, it's fun to go back and be like, were there ulterior motives to this earlier stuff? So it gives you a chance to kind of rewatch it all. I appreciate that. So this is a very, very low point for Ruby. What was that like for you to see this character that you've grown very attached to, hitting probably like the lowest of the lows? Rock Bottom has a basement, surprise. Hey. Yeah, found it. Yeah, genuinely, we already have Ruby, has been isolated in the Ever After from her teammates. We had some one of her union, but it was very skewed. She could not physically help her team in a lot of ways. So she relied on someone like the cat to guide her through this. So the ultimate betrayal is, oh, this person who I thought I could trust leading me through this whimsy world is actually bad. It's a great and necessary reflection on herself in the moment. Ruby needs to look at that and to stop trusting people around her. Just trust yourself for once, just for once. Early on, we had the idea for, if we're doing an Alice in Wonderland thing, we need like a mad tea party scene, right? And Mad Hatter in this scenario is Neo slash Torchwick. And all of these people that there's a part of Ruby feels like she failed or was a part of their demise. And to have them like in some senses, like literally beat it into her, you know, in the scene. It's really tough. It's tough to watch. There was a lot of nightmarish things in this episode. The cat and Neo, all that. I mean, we wanted this to be a shift in the season and really get into, okay, we're coming to the last couple of episodes now. Like the tone is gonna be shifted a little bit. Yeah, and then there's the little stomp. That broke my heart too, watching that. Oh my goodness. There was a couple of times where I was like, is this too, is this too mean? Are we allowed to do this? I still don't know. We absolutely put a lot into not making it, the grotesque or making it as nonviolent as possible, which is hard to imagine. The whole episode is very mean. That's what it should be called, the mean episode. But I think there's a little bit, at least for me, justification of that is because of how whimsical the season has been up to this point. Is actually, we kind of needed to set that there were gonna be some consequences to this area. You know, like you can get small and get big again, but I mean like if Ruby drinks this tea, like what's gonna happen? She's going to the tree. The dark and kind of twisted chapter in the fairy tale. So this is the grim portion of the fairy tale, as opposed to the Disney portion right now, basically. Got it, got it.